Post 9sfqeQJsEMq2LGTLmK by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
(DIR) More posts by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
(DIR) Post #9sfYbPLRLrtIdXpfW4 by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2020-03-04T16:36:50Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
how would you explain a terminal/shell to a 10yo?
(DIR) Post #9sfaNH4zU8IurAWicS by rune@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2020-03-04T16:56:39Z
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@wolf480pl it's hard enough to explain it to an adult 😬
(DIR) Post #9sfccCm1yZQTkpuCzQ by phreq@hackers.town
2020-03-04T17:20:33Z
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@wolf480pl A way to exchange informations with the computer using only text (without clicking and pointing...).
(DIR) Post #9sfeY6eH0UNDVXRyzo by danielst@social.librem.one
2020-03-04T17:43:27Z
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@wolf480pl "You open the shell to see what's inside. If you're lucky, you find a pe[a]rl. " 😎(But beware of the daemons, zombies, ELFs, DWARFs, pythons, GNUs and other funny creatures...)From a user perspective, the shell (text or graphical) is the most fundamental process that needs to run after boot.It allows to observe, start and kill other processes. (And by extension: files)
(DIR) Post #9sfi4RK7yMhul98XVA by feonixrift@hackers.town
2020-03-04T18:22:38Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@wolf480pl Depends on the 10 yrs old. If I must speak with someone who it's not reasonable to address in an age and experience independent manner... I would describe it as a conversation; command lines are just early chat clients for talking to computers. They understand weirdly specific phrases and are prone to saying silly things that require interpretation, but it's just a chat.
(DIR) Post #9sfiI6ZfulPsSdvPpQ by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2020-03-04T18:24:44Z
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@feonixrift hm.. ok, what if the 10yo knows how to program in one programming language, but has never used any Unix-like system, and there's no reason to believe they used cmd.exe either?
(DIR) Post #9sfiNouUVEPLPiO2QC by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
2020-03-04T18:26:25.941947Z
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@wolf480pl Put them in front of one if these shell mockups to learn and play with it?Maybe some video demo of their absolute power?
(DIR) Post #9sfiPnFzcW66rjNvsG by feonixrift@hackers.town
2020-03-04T18:26:24Z
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@wolf480pl Same thing; it's a chat. But in code - you can program how it replies. You can make it do things. (My daughter is younger, she gets search/commandline as 'magic incantation to make it go'..) Hence the modern term repl - which is literally a chat in code.
(DIR) Post #9sfiS4P4qC8ycjig6q by grips@cawfee.club
2020-03-04T18:27:12.766135Z
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@wolf480pl it's like talking to a computeryou give it commands, it performs themyou ask it questions, it tells you answers
(DIR) Post #9sfiXRH7ESdd0TYWQq by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2020-03-04T18:28:09Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@grips you tell it a name of a program, it runs it. yeah, that could work.
(DIR) Post #9sfimJyEfkxyhCoyeG by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2020-03-04T18:30:50Z
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@lanodan the usecase is making a video showing how to use the Linux distro we provide for the programming contest.So there's gonna be stuff "here you start Geany which is a source code editor with nice keyboard shortcuts for compiling your code" and there's gonna be stuff "here you launch a terminal which is (?). You can type cd to change directory, you can type ./myprogram to launch the program you just wrote, you can redirect input with <, ...".Now what do you put in place of "(?)" ?
(DIR) Post #9sfivrN9r140te1j2u by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2020-03-04T18:32:34Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@lanodan I guess "a window into w hich you can type commands and the computer will run them" would do the trick
(DIR) Post #9sfjRqZ6OJsjevrlTM by tmy@pleroma.nethole.us
2020-03-04T18:38:18.480269Z
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@wolf480pl "Back in my day..."
(DIR) Post #9sfjZhtqUcqF6IJhuy by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2020-03-04T18:39:46Z
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@tmy "Back in my day, there was no GUI, we had to run our programs from terminal. So during this competition, we will require you to run programs from a terminal, too. We had it hard, so you're gonna have it hard, too. Deal with it.":D
(DIR) Post #9sfjxB4SCYrYEXTDxQ by tmy@pleroma.nethole.us
2020-03-04T18:44:01.867848Z
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@wolf480pl Make sure to use the 😎 emoji when you say "deal with it" so that you seem *cool* and *with it* for the kids.
(DIR) Post #9sfqePFEE9Wp0ZI7to by zipheir@functional.cafe
2020-03-04T19:33:16Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@wolf480pl Do you think they'd need a very different explanation than would an older person? "A shell is an interpreter for a language that you write into the terminal window" might be my first attempt.
(DIR) Post #9sfqeQJsEMq2LGTLmK by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2020-03-04T19:34:54Z
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@zipheir they may not know some more sophisticated words.
(DIR) Post #9sfrM4obXpHIOBf6Mi by zipheir@functional.cafe
2020-03-04T19:44:04Z
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@wolf480pl I think it's possible to be precise about computing in simple language (c.f. The Little Schemer!). IMHO it's preferable to use some technical terms (like "interpreter") than to give people simplistic, or--worst of all--anthropomorphic explanations ("You tell the computer what you want through this, but you have to speak its language...").
(DIR) Post #9sftna6RWdhf9ZFTkG by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2020-03-04T20:34:20Z
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@zipheir I was hoping for something in the style of the Simple English wikipedia.Anyway, you think that it's better to introduce multiple new terms at the same time instead of using analogies?
(DIR) Post #9sg0cdRFU09tzZhxAm by rghvdberg@sonomu.club
2020-03-04T21:50:44Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@wolf480plIt's where L33T h4k0rs live
(DIR) Post #9sg0zqzjFPlghDuJCS by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2020-03-04T21:54:59Z
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@rghvdberg "ok kids, now we click this icon which opens a Terminal. Terminal is where l33t h4x0rs live, so if you wanna be a l33t h4x0r and win the competition, you need to learn to use terminal too. It's not easy at all as only l33t people know the right incantations, but as a beginner, you should learn how to use `cd`."
(DIR) Post #9sgIpmDfwdEgAKm7vM by zipheir@functional.cafe
2020-03-05T01:14:49Z
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@wolf480pl I don't think I advocated for "introducing multiple new terms at the same time".Sometimes introducing a fresh term is a good way to clarify things, since a familiar term might come with lots of unwanted connotations. A challenge of explaining things in Basic/Simple English might be that it's hard to be precise with the language's basic vocabulary.Example: Simple English WP on programming languages: "A programming language is a type of written language that tells computers what to do in order to work." It's necessary to expand this a lot to explain that there may be many layers of abstraction, what it means for a computer to "work", and that "telling" it "what to do" does not mean the computer is conscious and capable of "understanding"!
(DIR) Post #9sgu8bjGruJDR7Oct6 by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2020-03-05T08:12:50Z
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@zipheir but your proposed explanation introduces 3 new terms at a time:- shell- interpreter- terminal
(DIR) Post #9sgxvvWINL3IrtXHGK by rghvdberg@sonomu.club
2020-03-05T08:55:21Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@wolf480plI freak the kids out by not clicking on an icon but quickly tapping F12 to drop down my quake terminal
(DIR) Post #9shcIuMOqiLe6BQ7Ps by zipheir@functional.cafe
2020-03-05T16:27:42Z
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@wolf480pl I was defining 'shell', and you could imagine me jabbing my finger at the screen instead of saying 'terminal window'. So that leaves 'interpreter' as the sole new term, hopefully.
(DIR) Post #9swrNS0NVW4NSoJkES by gemlog@mastodonten.de
2020-03-13T00:57:16Z
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@wolf480pl You can talk to a computer and make it do things. But you have to type in a special language. You already know most of the words though, so it will be easy. And then you can make it do anything you want.
(DIR) Post #9sxV4JExrmwawdZFuS by Reinderdijkhuis@mastodon.social
2020-03-13T08:22:01Z
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@wolf480pl An app to message your computer to tell it what to do.