Post 9r45wS7LmdR8pDVMFE by sir@cmpwn.com
(DIR) More posts by sir@cmpwn.com
(DIR) Post #9r44t32WSxAIDz3kFE by DissidentKitty@radical.town
2020-01-16T16:40:22Z
0 likes, 2 repeats
This is an emergency. South Dakota is pushing to pass a law that would make affirming trans youth a crime. It is extreme and dangerous. If they succeed, it could start a tidal wave of these horrendous bills. We have already lost trans advocates in South Dakota and we need to lift up our people. Mobilize to oppose HB1057. https://sdlegislature.gov/Legislative_Session/Bills/Bill.aspx?Bill=1057
(DIR) Post #9r44t3MjFpKPEeVsjw by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-01-16T16:46:50Z
4 likes, 3 repeats
@DissidentKitty I am definitely going to get shit for this, but based on the pictured section it looks like this is making it illegal to do sex-reassignment treatments and surgeries on minors - NOT generally "criminalizing affirming trans youth". I'm not entirely against prohibiting minors from undertaking life-changing elective medical procedures.
(DIR) Post #9r458fvy8kgZCGRh3o by allison@blob.cat
2020-01-16T16:50:16.941789Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir @DissidentKitty If you read the text of the bill closer, you would also realize that much of the language (particularly (3) under Section 2) prohibits hormone replacement therapy and not just elective surgeries (which minors usually don't have anyway).
(DIR) Post #9r45Dzb8SQ6JdDEiP2 by DissidentKitty@radical.town
2020-01-16T16:50:03Z
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@sir
(DIR) Post #9r45JVkWLYoonMG2Vs by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-01-16T16:50:38Z
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@DissidentKitty does puberty resume normally if you stop taking these medications? If so then I agree that this is a bad bill, if not then I stand by my point.
(DIR) Post #9r45NU24fj1qd2MX1k by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
2020-01-16T16:52:56.930799Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir @DissidentKitty Uh surgeries without a legal representative(~parent) agreeing to it why not (I mean tatoos requires that here).But hormones and stuff like that should be possible to do.And this is just to undermine trans folks, I'm pretty sure this isn't going to avoid surgeries/medication which should not be done on intersex people that would be fine without them.
(DIR) Post #9r45OiysZzE1HQSZEm by DissidentKitty@radical.town
2020-01-16T16:51:55Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir Go fuck yourself.
(DIR) Post #9r45TwTXpmfwa4I7NY by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-01-16T16:52:32Z
4 likes, 1 repeats
@DissidentKitty man, that approach to discussion doesn't help trans politics at all. People you tell to go fuck themselves can still vote, and aren't going to be sympathetic to your cause.
(DIR) Post #9r45YAMAAQRkn2qvFQ by allison@blob.cat
2020-01-16T16:54:53.866779Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@lanodan @sir @DissidentKitty Yeah, reading the bill more it specifically exempts surgeries on intersex minors, so this is really just a very transparent effort to criminalize seeking effectual treatment for being trans if you're under 18 in South Dakota.
(DIR) Post #9r45boUTPFNa8GTkZs by moonman@shitposter.club
2020-01-16T16:55:32.795433Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@DissidentKitty @sir lol
(DIR) Post #9r45iIFpeqWsBGijZI by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
2020-01-16T16:56:43.041326Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@sir @DissidentKitty AFAIK it does resume ~normally (as far as puberty goes with knowing it has been paused), some States in EU which are quite pro-trans are letting some people do that until they are declared old enough to attempt other therapy.
(DIR) Post #9r45wS7LmdR8pDVMFE by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-01-16T16:58:39Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@lanodan @DissidentKitty gotcha, thanks for clarifying. Reversible treatments like that should totally not be made illegal, I agree that's bullshit.
(DIR) Post #9r468ros3AAw0smTLM by allison@blob.cat
2020-01-16T17:01:29.980935Z
1 likes, 2 repeats
@lanodan @sir @DissidentKitty Yeah, puberty blockers are definitely purely reversible and the only lasting effects from such would be ~slightly~ lower mineral bone density than if they had gone through "normal" puberty. HRT is a bit more complicated, but also generally reversible up to a certain point (and in addition, you will know pretty soon once you're on it whether it's actually quelling your dysphoria or whether it's introducing more problems than it solves-- if a cis person takes HRT it basically ends up endogenously *giving* them dysphoria so that kind of helps sort out the people who are genuinely unsure about this sort of thing). (t. got on HRT at 18, knew it wasn't having the effects I was looking for due to ways the medicines interacted, desisted and went back on a few times, now on injections, and feeling MUCH better as a consequence of it)
(DIR) Post #9r46iqr96ocHS00I88 by noyoushutthefuckupdad@shitposter.club
2020-01-16T17:08:01.098629Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@allison @lanodan @DissidentKitty @sir this is some Hellraiser shit
(DIR) Post #9r46qy9zpvZKQ7gwqW by allison@blob.cat
2020-01-16T17:09:29.723176Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@lanodan @sir https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoC3ePST3eQ&list=PLf_5MEY0t6C6uHsBixxUmZt8Mh2U45R1h As an addendum to the last post, and with the caveat that I don't endorse all the views in the videos here, Dr. William Powers does a pretty good rundown of basically everything trans-related from a medical standpoint here
(DIR) Post #9r47OunmpRYbqoUQyW by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-01-16T17:14:07Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@kd Go fuck yourself.
(DIR) Post #9r48IuKlkvLccFcHmS by cambrian_era@radical.town
2020-01-16T17:24:33Z
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@sir a) yes, puberty does resumeb) being trans isn't a choice that you get to make once you turn 18c) this bill is at odds with current medical research and standardsd) this bill specifically targets trans people in ways that are legal for cis people.
(DIR) Post #9r48VjgudYR3N95hAW by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-01-16T17:27:28Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@cambrian_era (a) thanks for clarifying, other people have said the same and I agree that banning would be some bullshit (b) is obvious, and not the matter under discussion (c) & (d) can you elaborate? (e) yeah, not a fan of this, but it's a more complex issue
(DIR) Post #9r48hxKRl4r58yPSO8 by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-01-16T17:29:40Z
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@ben @DissidentKitty not sure I understand what you're saying here, but it sounds like you're saying that doctors can be trusted to do what's right for the patient and thus the law is unnecessary? Doctors are not infalliable or universally just/correct, there's a reason we have malpractice law
(DIR) Post #9r494fWA94psZ2ih84 by cambrian_era@radical.town
2020-01-16T17:33:35Z
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@sir The current standards of care use puberty blockers to delay puberty until a child can make a more informed decision. They're commonly used for precocious puberty. If you don't do this, then people undergo permanent, life-altering changes (puberty). What people look for is persistent and insistent identification with their stated gender.As far as the second part goes, I'm no intactivist but circumcisions are perfectly legal, for instance. As are breast reductions. So is using hormone therapy for other purposes. There are any number of life-altering medical decisions that children or their parents make. But this bill specifically targets only one: transition.
(DIR) Post #9r49A1WJlgEEFfLVSq by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-01-16T17:34:07Z
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@ben @DissidentKitty not necessarily, the patient can be in group 1 as well. There's a reason I explicitly draw attention to "elective life-changing" surgeries. Minors do not possess the mental maturity to make decisions like that for themselves.
(DIR) Post #9r49I3J50fXg6oyxyC by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-01-16T17:36:12Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@cambrian_era thanks for explaining the current standard, I suspected this but wasn't sure. It also plays into stuff that's been discussed in other threads - I agree that puberty delaying drugs should not be made illegal for minors.I am vehemently against circumcising children. Breast reductions are a grey area I don't know enough to comment on. Saying that we shouldn't address X because we don't address Y is a whataboutism.
(DIR) Post #9r49PXY0yPBnvVXRfU by trickster@mastodon.technology
2020-01-16T17:36:47Z
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@sir @ben @DissidentKitty they're old enough to commit suicide, which many of them do
(DIR) Post #9r49VsucS9mhvQ8Xxo by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-01-16T17:36:57Z
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@ben @DissidentKitty it's a bad law, because it blocks reversible treatments and because it allows for the mutiliation of intersex minors. I agree.
(DIR) Post #9r49XtiYQhPH0CSB0q by allison@blob.cat
2020-01-16T17:39:39.881567Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@sir @cambrian_era The way I see it, HRT and blockers should be unconditionally legal for minors, and then SRS should be *very* conditionally legal (of course, once you're 18 and assuming you manage to pass by the relevant authorities without problems, there should be no unnecessary barriers to access). Most of uthe opposition comes from either people who fundamentally misunderstand the nature of the treatments, or who wish to prohibit them for religious/political reasons.
(DIR) Post #9r49bYcMouKwikIwNs by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-01-16T17:37:23Z
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@trickster @ben @DissidentKitty lots of people mid-transition and post-transition commit suicide, too. I think this is a separate issue.
(DIR) Post #9r49bYrFvYFLSvGpai by allison@blob.cat
2020-01-16T17:40:19.099396Z
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@sir @trickster @ben @DissidentKitty Suicide rate broadly comparable to cis controls post-transition compared to 41% pre-transition. You can't keep making false equivalences like this
(DIR) Post #9r49gfojTpaGUtWnAW by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-01-16T17:37:34Z
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@ben @cambrian_era lol what, in the same bill?
(DIR) Post #9r49rJSYwg0iLGEPFA by cambrian_era@radical.town
2020-01-16T17:39:25Z
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@sir But you CAN ask why certain life-altering decisions spark panic among the general populace while others go ignored.I can't imagine that you would legitimately argue that any and all medical decisions that will have long-term effects be held off until a person is 18.It's not 'whataboutism', it's asking why this is.
(DIR) Post #9r49vIc02VK2s3XvkG by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-01-16T17:41:09Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@allison @trickster @DissidentKitty I wasn't trying to create causation where there correlation. I'm sorry, l retract that post.
(DIR) Post #9r49z52gQthnwZpXpA by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-01-16T17:40:34Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@kd I totally understand that level of emotion and find it justified, but I also believe it's important to be able to speak levelly about such issues. The matter at hand isn't the murder and assault of trans people in public, or legislating away their existence, if it were then a much greater level of outrage would be appropriate. You could argue that it's part of a broader trend which implicates these more severe issues, but I don't think that justifies escalation. To curb these laws you will have to be able to level a good-faith argument against them to your legislators, and attempt to educate them on trans issues in good faith. If you tell them to go fuck themselves for being ignorant, it'll never help trans issues succeed, no matter how important or justified they are.
(DIR) Post #9r4AE1THzXCVDFOrr6 by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-01-16T17:43:10Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@cambrian_era I'm not arguing that, no. I'm arguing that elective, irreversible treatments should be held off. I don't think minors should get tattoos, either (not to trivialize trans identity at the level of getting a tattoo, but to show how the argument generalizes).Anyway, I appreciate your willingness to engage with and educate me. I have a more subtle understanding of the matter now than I did before.
(DIR) Post #9r4ALAuvGrWmXEjgvo by allison@blob.cat
2020-01-16T17:48:34.425173Z
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@sir @trickster @DissidentKitty All good, I assumed it was an honest mistake. I think the suicidality thing is very important in terms of the ethics of letting minors transition, since transition has proven itself to be quite effectual at quelling trans suicide rates/attempts (most of which tend to cluster around the broad "pre-transition" times, so puberty to mid-20s in most cases, particularly in the United States. In the UK and EU it can skew later because of single-payer medical gatekeeping and lack of access to medicinal treatments for dysphoria)
(DIR) Post #9r4AM1PY6EvJLHSst6 by cambrian_era@radical.town
2020-01-16T17:43:19Z
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@sir If the rationale for the bill is that minors and their parents AND their doctors cannot make life-altering decisions, then that rationale should be applied to everyone, not just to trans people.
(DIR) Post #9r4AM20PtAPjBciKLw by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-01-16T17:45:38Z
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@cambrian_era hmm, are you arguing that if this is the justification, this bill resolves it at the wrong level - trans rights - rather than at the level it uses for justification - elective life-altering medical procedures for children?If so, I think that it would be very difficult to make an enforcable law which is that general. I think the other issues we've discussed - circumcision, breast reduction, intersex surgery - are important to address, but individually. This philosophy of legislation will naturally lead to bills which address each of these issues in isolation.
(DIR) Post #9r4ATzckcz0g7HRP3A by allison@blob.cat
2020-01-16T17:50:10.082804Z
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@sir @cambrian_era Well the very least such a bill could do is ban intersex surgeries for minors, which this bill *doesn't* because the motivations of the legislators are not "let's act in good faith to ban elective surgical procedures until people are 18"
(DIR) Post #9r4AwGFeOv8LnH7CvA by cambrian_era@radical.town
2020-01-16T17:54:29Z
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@sir You wouldn't make a law like that because it would be ludicrous. There are all sorts of cases where a given treatment might be considered elective and to override the patient, parents, doctors, and medical research would be unjust and inflict unnecessary suffering.A rational path would be to examine a given treatment and look at its outcomes.
(DIR) Post #9r4BF6lFuSQ5rWswLI by marisa@radical.town
2020-01-16T17:57:40Z
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@sir @DissidentKitty Perhaps there should be limitations, with regards to the small minority that later regret their irreversible treatment. But those decisions should be based on the individual minor, and not be mandated by politicians.I would also put the age of consent lower than 18.
(DIR) Post #9r4BbvlAyi7mP2jMAa by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-01-16T18:02:02Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@kd opinions on issues exist on a wide reaching spectrum. What you hold dearly as intrinsic truth is intrinsically false to someone else, and there are positions held everywhere in between and even outside of those maximums. I happen to have an internalized belief that trans people have a right to exist and to be in control of their bodies, and we would even agree that we have the moral ground here. But those who hold the opposite belief do so for the same reasons that we hold ours: a belief that our worldview is moral and just. If you want to move anyone's opinion closer to yours, you MUST address them in good faith. Relying on outrage and fear is not a tactic I believe in. It just allows the problem to simmer and live on in private, and the fight is never truly won. You must win their hearts.
(DIR) Post #9r4BklUoVaeFAzI1kO by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-01-16T18:03:48Z
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@kd is this difficult? Fucking absolutely. When your very identity is under attack, it's about as difficult as it gets. But difficult or not, the solution doesn't change. It's hard to approach people as equals when they won't extend you the same courtesy, but you need to stand up and face that difficulty or things arne't going to change. And it's especially problematic if you approach people with hostility just because they're ignorant - they're not even your enemy, but they could easily become it in light of your hostility.
(DIR) Post #9r4CjCSZO2FsB63dxo by zoey@quinnter.net
2020-01-16T18:13:55Z
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@sir @kd No.This isn't a dry, neutral discussion about like, adopting highways or something. Trying to keep us "civil" is trying to keep us from getting uppity.We're rude because it's warranted. There's a time for calm discussion and education, and there's a time for passion, and to tell you when YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.You mention reversible surgery, implying a totally detached, unbalanced view of this. Consider the true consequence of what you're describing. It's....being transgender, essentially. The percentage of trans people who regret it is incredibly low - but we can't be sure how low, because this shit is constantly misrepresented.All that is to say: if you're an actual ally, you need to accept that your information is coming from somewhere. Where?Maybe transgender folks know this topic better than you, and you can learn from us. If you're being called an asshole, that doesn't mean you're not being one.I get it, it's not fun to "get shit" for something. But in life, sometimes you're the asshole. Whether you remain the asshole is on you and how much self-growth you're willing to allow at the expense of your ego.You're talking about this as a matter of practice, but it's about your feelings, frankly - just represented through a larger number of people.It's probably a lot easier for you to accept truths about climate change, yeah? Do you think it's worth entertaining misinformation on that subject on the same level as trans issues? Or is it important to treat it as an emergency?I can't emphasize enough how big a deal it is that it's difficult to even get proper research on this topic. So you need to hear us when we talk.Having treatment available when I was a minor would have changed a lot of things. This is a really big deal. It is a lives-are-at-stake deal. Swallow your pride, dude.
(DIR) Post #9r4CuBbetrACiUY1B2 by zoey@quinnter.net
2020-01-16T18:15:37Z
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@sir @kd No.This isn't a dry, neutral discussion about like, adopting highways or something. Trying to keep us "civil" is trying to keep us from getting uppity.We're rude because it's warranted. There's a time for calm discussion and education, and there's a time for passion, and to tell you when YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.You mention reversible surgery, implying a totally detached, unbalanced view of this. Consider the true consequence of what you're describing. It's....being transgender, essentially. The percentage of trans people who regret it is incredibly low - but we can't be sure how low, because this shit is constantly misrepresented.All that is to say: if you're an actual ally, you need to accept that your information is coming from somewhere. Where?Maybe transgender folks know this topic better than you, and you can learn from us. If you're being called an asshole, that doesn't mean you're not being one.I get it, it's not fun to "get shit" for something. But in life, sometimes you're the asshole. Whether you remain the asshole is on you and how much self-growth you're willing to allow at the expense of your ego.You're talking about this as a matter of practice, but it's about your feelings, frankly - just represented through a larger number of people. Or put another way, we're having this conversation either way, whether it's specifically about your feelings or large numbers of people in your position who share your feelings. The answer is the same in both instances. You need to be shaken a bit, I'm sorry it's unpleasant.It's probably a lot easier for you to accept truths about climate change, yeah? Do you think it's worth entertaining misinformation on that subject on the same level as trans issues? Or is it important to treat it as an emergency?I can't emphasize enough how big a deal it is that it's difficult to even get proper research on this topic. So you need to hear us when we talk.Having treatment available when I was a minor would have changed a lot of things. This is a really big deal. It is a lives-are-at-stake deal. Swallow your pride, dude.
(DIR) Post #9r4D9HHU5HBGeyJ7gG by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-01-16T18:19:23Z
3 likes, 2 repeats
@zoey @kd I'm listening to you, my friend, and going out of my way to. But listening to you doesn't mean I have to accept your word as truth - I can open myself up to change and listen to you to bring about that change, but ultimately it's me that decides my worldview and you that decides yours. Thanks to people in this very thread engaging me as equals I've already developed a much more nuanced view, so much so that I no longer agree that my post from an hour ago represents my updated views. But did I develop that nuance and align myself closer to my trans allies thanks to the person who told me to "go fuck myself?" Absolutely not. I learned nothing from that person except for a reinforcement of any generalized biases I had about many trans people being unfriendly and irrational when confronted with mildly dissonant worldviews.
(DIR) Post #9r4DEz1mrUxtmngaMS by DissidentKitty@radical.town
2020-01-16T18:16:42Z
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Bills like these exist so that when the church counseling, conversion therapy, and 'discipline' (beatings, food deprivation, restricting movement, etc) fail to make their child the reflection of themselves their parents desire, they can opine with a clean conscience as the casket is lowered into the ground: "What a tragedy it was, that little Johnny lost his battle with mental illness!" and receive an outpouring of sympathy now that their problem child is finally gone - "if my child can't be normal, he can at least be with Jesus!" That is ultimately what this is about.
(DIR) Post #9r4DEzMLd3PaoZJ0PQ by DissidentKitty@radical.town
2020-01-16T18:19:13Z
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@sir @MegXgeM This is what you're supporting with your ignorance and apathy, you shit-eating worms-for-brain motherfuckers. Know that with every trans child that dies, some of that blood is on your hands!
(DIR) Post #9r4DEzfUTsixlwGIFM by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-01-16T18:20:24Z
3 likes, 1 repeats
@DissidentKitty @MegXgeM there is no blood from the death of any trans children on my hands because I called for a nuanced discussion. If anyone is to blame for the blood of dead children it's you, for resorting to rage instead of discussion and radicalizing your opponents against you. Get some perspective.
(DIR) Post #9r4DKSu5DCpBtMhEYa by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-01-16T18:21:26Z
4 likes, 0 repeats
@DissidentKitty @MegXgeM if I wasn't firm in my convictions, your aggression could have easily radicalized me against transgender rights. EASILY. It has happened thousands of times. You are the architect of your own destruction.
(DIR) Post #9r4Dxk4DKglMPvACuW by ice@pleroma.site
2020-01-16T18:29:10.062275Z
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@sir @zoey @kd i think when people telling other people to go fuck themself or eat shit are morally great people because they aren't really explaining why example this topic like someone should tell me why it's ok for a 7-10 year old should transition to a girl or boy. other then it's their choice when i was 7 to 10 years old i thought i was superman and now i realise i'm a normal man.
(DIR) Post #9r4E2LTED377a23hy4 by zoey@quinnter.net
2020-01-16T18:29:14Z
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@sir @kd I feel so honored you'd go out of your way to listen to me.Why did we need to handle you with such kid gloves? If you really understand any nuance, go back to your earlier posts and reconsider what you've been saying, and the pure dismissal of lives. It's kind of shitty, right? I do not see you as treating us as equals in this regard. And look, you don't have to take me as unquestionable truth, but you need to understand the lack of tools at our disposal when it comes to evidence, considering how much goes into destroying us from history and academia. So it's a case when anecdotal evidence carries way more weight than it otherwise should.I'm not meaning to dogpile on you or kick you in the face, but it really comes across like you haven't learned much at all. "Unfriendly and irrational" is difficult to avoid when we're being destroyed. You can't ask us to set aside emotion when we have so very little else.
(DIR) Post #9r4E342AWVCtn8kEXQ by ice@pleroma.site
2020-01-16T18:29:56.640074Z
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@sir @zoey @kd i think when people telling other people to go fuck themself or eat shit aren't morally great people because they aren't really explaining why example this topic like someone should tell me why it's ok for a 7-10 year old should transition to a girl or boy. other then it's their choice when i was 7 to 10 years old i thought i was superman and now i realise i'm a normal man.
(DIR) Post #9r4EFOS8Qrvuaull56 by sweetmercury@jorts.horse
2020-01-16T18:31:05Z
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@sir @DissidentKitty @MegXgeM Hey have you guys read any of the works of the Italian gender critical researcher Giuseppe Itama? His work is largely ignored by the academic community.
(DIR) Post #9r4ELeMYC00bfx8mFE by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-01-16T18:31:13Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@zoey @kd come on... you're not being destroyed or denied your existence in this thread. I'm not saying it's not happening elsewhere - but it's not happening here. If you want allies to join you in the fight where it matters, where you ARE being destroyed, then you need to treat them with respect. People can be different and still help each other. You're projecting onto me the frustrations you have with the world at large, and in so doing are just making more people to be frustrated with.
(DIR) Post #9r4ER7Xb8VH1cNut1s by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-01-16T18:33:38Z
4 likes, 0 repeats
@zoey @kd if you're trying to make me acknowledge that I've _done_ something wrong here, then I won't, because I haven't. I have expressed some incorrect opinions - largely benign ones - out of ignorance, and they've been corrected. But expressing wrong opinions in good faith, accepting feedback, and updating your worldview accordingly is anything but bad behavior - it's exactly what you be asking for in the first place.
(DIR) Post #9r4EpM96UFjjrf131E by icedquinn@blob.cat
2020-01-16T18:38:50.488775Z
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@sir @DissidentKitty > does puberty resume normally if you stop taking these medications?more data needed, but blockers can be taken for ~1-2 years without (currently observed) ill effects. it just delays puberty.
(DIR) Post #9r4FHnCFVSnRrx2xBg by icedquinn@blob.cat
2020-01-16T18:43:59.170467Z
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@zoey @sir @kd screeching at moderates is always a good way to get your way 👌
(DIR) Post #9r4FTDFF03s3qFtL96 by wolfcoder@witches.live
2020-01-16T18:44:02Z
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@sir @DissidentKitty @MegXgeM when you inadvertently endanger the lives of trans folk they tend to get a little bit upset.however "radicalizing your opponents against you" reveals you are doing this on purpose, you're not doing the whole mask on thing very well
(DIR) Post #9r4FVjbHfqCClnP9A8 by mewmew@blob.cat
2020-01-16T18:46:29.338787Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@kd @sir @zoey there's a difference between "you need to be incredibly kind to anyone who shows you even the slightest bit of recognition" and "not being an asshole towards anyone who doesn't fully agree with you". Telling people to "go fuck yourself" is never necessary.
(DIR) Post #9r4FtrwyHURNcH3afA by mewmew@blob.cat
2020-01-16T18:50:51.499159Z
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@kd so? do you want to feel morally righteous while being an asshole or do you want people do be on your side?
(DIR) Post #9r4FuldPFQ44JoKkwS by mewmew@blob.cat
2020-01-16T18:51:00.486146Z
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@kd *to be
(DIR) Post #9r4GUjm1dzzCyJW7yi by kazuma@expired.mentality.rip
2020-01-16T18:57:31.634831Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@mewmew @kd nah dog if you don't tell people to go fuck themselves trans people literally dieevery time i'm not dunking on the cissies i fucking rot
(DIR) Post #9r4GXRmWzgDI2X2u5g by mewmew@blob.cat
2020-01-16T18:58:00.283644Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@kazuma @kd oh yeah I forgotKILL ALL CIS MEN :blobcattrump:
(DIR) Post #9r4GcWrNXaG5Emjisa by kazuma@expired.mentality.rip
2020-01-16T18:58:56.914182Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@mewmew @kd why not go further and kill all the men? :blobcat3c:
(DIR) Post #9r4GgxX0JqMR7EJpnk by mewmew@blob.cat
2020-01-16T18:59:43.822963Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@kazuma @kd no, only cis men :blobcat_MUDAMUDAMUDA:
(DIR) Post #9r4GlcwAJbCqgxJVdw by ice@pleroma.site
2020-01-16T19:00:35.568232Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kdThanks
(DIR) Post #9r4GnC4h9yfHxV3BuC by kazuma@expired.mentality.rip
2020-01-16T19:00:52.536086Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@mewmew @kd :blobcatsob: but........then we can't die together................ I only want to die with mewmew!!!!!!!!! :blobcatsnuggle:
(DIR) Post #9r4GnQzDicCMCrbWxE by mewmew@blob.cat
2020-01-16T19:00:52.605392Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@kd you vastly overestimate the intelligence and patience, and willingness to put up with crap of most people.If there's one side that, when asked to explain their position, tells you to go fuck yourself, and the other side, when asked to explain their position, sends you articles and actual arguments.If that other side appeals to people's sense that they're being oppressed, even if they aren't.If that other side says that particular people are special, are worth more, and are being treated unfairly.If that other side promises a community, a return to "better times".If that other side is growing rapidly and dangerously.Then telling people to "go fuck yourself" is going to push them onto that other side and hurt your movement in the long run.
(DIR) Post #9r4HzFVMKgsy1fpoMC by kazuma@expired.mentality.rip
2020-01-16T19:14:15.049270Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@mewmew @kd it really is trying to convince people who are trying to figure out why they should care about trans people while trans people fucking trash potential allies and shit all day because they don't say the exact right thingof course allies can be awful and annoying but it's sure is a lot better having some degree of rights and acceptance rather than getting fucking locked up or murdered and worsethis is a war for our own prosperity and it requires some degree of strategy instead of writing people off as just another chud when they ask "why?"
(DIR) Post #9r4IgTlJCU3KhDuOIK by miro@fedi.absturztau.be
2020-01-16T19:18:58.714469Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@sir hey yo I just wanna say that I completely agree with you here. puberty blockers do 0 harm to the individual once removed (apparently there are countless studies on this) but if we're specifically talking about SRS then yeah, minors shouldn't make decisions for themselves without extensive education or guidance.I think the same can be said about HRT too. dunno if this is true but I'm pretty sure HRT can cause a bunch of life changing results that are hard to reverse.like I'm sorry for everyone else reading this, but you can't just expect hormones to be over-the-counter. without supervision it can cause bad effects. it's the same reason why lots of psychiatric meds are restricted
(DIR) Post #9r4Ikuk4pZT3X2Rn3Q by mewmew@blob.cat
2020-01-16T19:22:50.805104Z
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@kd so? do you want the person who's "one rude trans person on the internet away from going fash" to become a fascist?they might not be the best ally but it's better than turning people against your cause
(DIR) Post #9r4IuRPyiDYJTqaaHI by anna@witches.live
2020-01-16T19:23:15Z
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@sir @DissidentKitty @MegXgeM lol ~nuanced discussion~regurgitating terf talking points and assuming they're the default neutral position isn't fucking nuanced discussion, it's bigotry with a smile.
(DIR) Post #9r4LeKHJn09KZAXtcu by wolfcoder@witches.live
2020-01-16T19:50:18Z
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@anna @sir @DissidentKitty @MegXgeM why are foss people like this I don't get it
(DIR) Post #9r4LeKcwUbRleEfAKe by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-01-16T19:54:34Z
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@wolfcoder @anna @DissidentKitty @MegXgeM the strawman you constructed might be like this, but I'm not
(DIR) Post #9r4LsfJAOir9qLFQQq by anna@witches.live
2020-01-16T19:57:01Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir @wolfcoder @DissidentKitty @MegXgeM if you're not like this, then i don't know, maybe don't be like this?
(DIR) Post #9r4LzzX1bbhUanDu40 by wolfcoder@witches.live
2020-01-16T19:57:28Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir @anna @DissidentKitty @MegXgeM so its just you, then?
(DIR) Post #9r4MD6Cw5zhZ3v4q7k by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-01-16T20:00:50Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@wolfcoder @anna @DissidentKitty @MegXgeM lol, why do trans people have to be like this
(DIR) Post #9r4UwsyARk4YxVVrCi by sylveon@blob.cat
2020-01-16T20:52:56.899709Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@mewmew this but unironically @kazuma @kd
(DIR) Post #9r4Uy8qktAUQV6e2To by anna@witches.live
2020-01-16T21:38:41Z
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@sir @wolfcoder @DissidentKitty @MegXgeM yuo: wah wah im not like that im ok with the transgendered or whateveralso yuo:
(DIR) Post #9r4V4AlMgmP0Ah010C by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-01-16T21:39:12Z
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@anna @wolfcoder @DissidentKitty @MegXgeM you: failing to recognize the irony lest it lead to self reflection
(DIR) Post #9r4VAuwpt3wj9Ja4um by anna@witches.live
2020-01-16T21:40:45Z
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@sir @wolfcoder @DissidentKitty @MegXgeM oh, pray tell what irony am i not noticing, o wise and benevolent cis overlord?
(DIR) Post #9r4VH3ZGkeTjcYU8Zs by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-01-16T21:41:20Z
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@anna @wolfcoder @DissidentKitty @MegXgeM it's a (rather obvious, I think) parody of bunny sanders comment: https://witches.live/@wolfcoder/103494727638381590
(DIR) Post #9r4VN1Yh8Prn7v3u3E by anna@witches.live
2020-01-16T21:43:10Z
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@sir @wolfcoder @DissidentKitty @MegXgeM yeah that's funny though because FOSS people arent a marginalized groupyour welcome for the explanation please donate to the witches dot live pateron for my time
(DIR) Post #9r4VTOJnQZeRS685AW by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-01-16T21:43:50Z
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@anna @wolfcoder @DissidentKitty @MegXgeM lol
(DIR) Post #9r4VZCwYdEYvuZ27ZA by anna@witches.live
2020-01-16T21:45:17Z
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@sir @wolfcoder @DissidentKitty @MegXgeM sorry you are too dumb and too cis to get a simple concept, please still donate to the pateron though, you break it you buy it
(DIR) Post #9r4VfRS7bHAIeElmM4 by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-01-16T21:45:49Z
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@anna @wolfcoder @DissidentKitty @MegXgeM has this thread just turned into shameless begging or is this sarcasm
(DIR) Post #9r4VkbSBqNMH77GLtA by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-01-16T21:46:10Z
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@anna @wolfcoder @DissidentKitty @MegXgeM "you are dumb, give me money", the classic and time-tested marketing strategy
(DIR) Post #9r4VsSFbwZfAt87gOW by anna@witches.live
2020-01-16T21:47:39Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir @wolfcoder @DissidentKitty @MegXgeM did i stutter?
(DIR) Post #9r4Vz9KEhqwsDeTjii by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-01-16T21:49:21Z
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@anna @wolfcoder @DissidentKitty @MegXgeM no, I am not giving money to your patreon.
(DIR) Post #9r4WB00TBArSnBspSC by anna@witches.live
2020-01-16T21:52:25Z
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@sir @wolfcoder @DissidentKitty @MegXgeM liar and a thief. typical cisser. why ARE all cissers like this?
(DIR) Post #9r4WMBv9Dsy0vejNVg by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-01-16T21:54:38Z
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@anna @wolfcoder @DissidentKitty @MegXgeM I mean, you've spent my time, too, and I bet my hourly rate is higher than yours. Where do I send the invoice?
(DIR) Post #9r4XMG5poHvhp7KFP6 by anna@witches.live
2020-01-16T22:05:38Z
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@sir @wolfcoder @DissidentKitty @MegXgeM send the invoice via a monthly payment to the witches pateron, listening to you whine is a service, you having to hear that you're being a total privileged techbro shithead, you know the kind who would get owned on-line then be like "i bet i make more than you lmao" to a trans woman is not something you charge for, you get charged for it. so yes. pateron nao plz.
(DIR) Post #9r4XgOTkLGb3cg6xwO by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-01-16T22:09:30Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@anna
(DIR) Post #9r4YkVWICnBgZZpNUe by anna@witches.live
2020-01-16T22:21:11Z
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@sir yeah and :blobcatsip: why am i supposed to feel bad for asking for compensation for my time again? oh right because im a woman
(DIR) Post #9r5oJ9EyiwX254fI9o by KitsuneAlicia@octodon.social
2020-01-16T16:52:46Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@DissidentKitty "No giving medical treatment to trans people allowed unless you're performing genital mutilation on your intersex infant to force them into a binary gender."Every politician involved in this needs to be locked up for life for attempted mass murder because this is them planning to murder hundreds of trans kids by staging "suicides" and "accidents".