Post 9qwnM1c9FuH8W2J3Sa by kel@pickle.zone
(DIR) More posts by kel@pickle.zone
(DIR) Post #9qvMyjUHh0gNfZtung by yogthos@mastodon.social
2020-01-12T05:23:38Z
8 likes, 17 repeats
Capitalism is quietly erasing the idea of private property. All products are effectively becoming rentals, and the companies can revoke your right to use them whenever they feel like it. It's becoming increasingly difficult to actually own anything. Media is streamed, and devices are locked from the users.It's hilarious how all the things people were afraid of happening under communism are actually happening under capitalism.https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/bvgx9w/farmers-are-buying-40-year-old-tractors-because-theyre-actually-repairable
(DIR) Post #9qvkezVYohKCSscKCO by orekix@anime.website
2020-01-12T16:23:07.047907Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@yogthos the real road to serfdom, not Hayek's
(DIR) Post #9qvla5X35lvBecXUzg by crunklord420@kiwifarms.cc
2020-01-12T16:33:27.419435Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@yogthos the fear under communism is that the government would gulag the farmers for refusing to buy John Deer tractors.
(DIR) Post #9qwnLyayToYP9WjZiK by kel@pickle.zone
2020-01-12T22:17:18Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@yogthos This does not mean that "Capitalism is quietly erasing the idea of private property". That is ridiculous. Just because capital is rented out doesn't make it capital any less
(DIR) Post #9qwnLz2cp0fiXHfeoS by yogthos@mastodon.social
2020-01-12T22:25:41Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kel from the perspective of the individual they're not acquiring capital, the person renting it out retains it
(DIR) Post #9qwnLzIvqNiRLrIgEK by kel@pickle.zone
2020-01-12T22:28:07Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@yogthos capital and property are not perceptive ideals but a system of material relationships between individuals. When someone owns something and utilizes that ownership to make profit, that's not a "he said she said situation" it's a matter of fact.
(DIR) Post #9qwnLzYWuOC08Eb8Xg by yogthos@mastodon.social
2020-01-12T22:29:18Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kel and the lack of ownership is precisely the problem, when you rent a service then you can be cut off from it any time the service provider chooses
(DIR) Post #9qwnLzrflDVN5bYQNc by kel@pickle.zone
2020-01-12T22:30:30Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@yogthos and how exactly does this mean that capital is erasing the concept of private property. that's just obfuscatory nonsense
(DIR) Post #9qwnM0EiNXw8F4KpIO by yogthos@mastodon.social
2020-01-12T22:37:38Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kel from the perspective of the individual not the capital owner, that's the context
(DIR) Post #9qwnM0V1Ouyr3dxqiG by kel@pickle.zone
2020-01-12T22:40:19Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@yogthos capital doesn't change form from perception though LOL what you're trying to say is capital is accumulating through channels of what were previously personal items but instead you're saying that because a consumer owns less things and the capitalist owns more, private property as a concept is not only idealistic since it's predicated on perception but it also no longer exists.
(DIR) Post #9qwnM0kGUFApov61TM by yogthos@mastodon.social
2020-01-12T23:32:18Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kel uh no, that is not what I'm saying at all actually. You're just putting words in my mouth there.I'm critiquing the fact that under capitalism property is increasingly concentrated on the hands of a few capital owners. And I'm also pointing out that this is a trope used against communism, that's actually happening under capitalism.Frankly, I'm not even sure what point you're trying to make.
(DIR) Post #9qwnM11dRf4IgnDtY0 by kel@pickle.zone
2020-01-13T00:06:25Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@yogthos You said precisely that right here: "Capitalism is quietly erasing the idea of private property."
(DIR) Post #9qwnM1LqEXEPhSg22i by yogthos@mastodon.social
2020-01-13T00:18:15Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kel yes, it's doing that from the perspective of the consumer
(DIR) Post #9qwnM1c9FuH8W2J3Sa by kel@pickle.zone
2020-01-13T00:23:09Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@yogthos so if you say that property is an idea, which can be "erased" from one perspective or another, how is that not turning property into an idealistic concept
(DIR) Post #9qwnM1wM2mRFWhlBxI by clacke@libranet.de
2020-01-13T04:27:38Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kel @yogthos Property is an idea, and the common person is less and less seeing that idea realized, making it irrelevant to their daily life.
(DIR) Post #9qwncniq9vZuLxR5HM by don@liberdon.com
2020-01-13T04:31:01Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@yogthos this makes acitvitypub and other self-owning technologies anti-communist. #Gab is the future of fediverse?
(DIR) Post #9qxayCMKeMtQbAjyIS by yogthos@mastodon.social
2020-01-13T13:43:58Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@don that doesn't make any sense
(DIR) Post #9r0RiU4mh8lYnfqQFc by Ayior@mastodon.art
2020-01-13T19:13:34Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@yogthosI wonder, was this predicted? (Because I don't think so, but would be intrigued to be proven otherwise)
(DIR) Post #9r0RiUPhRNUpqXd7qq by yogthos@mastodon.social
2020-01-13T21:44:58Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Ayior a lot of people warned about this actually, RMS, Cory Doctrow, and FSF have been very vocal about the dangers of DRM. They've been proven completely right in the end.
(DIR) Post #9r0RighVkysFxG3WHQ by brian_enders@mastodon.social
2020-01-14T22:40:22Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@yogthos that might be the problem with electric vehicles in the future too. I am all for electric vehicles and reducing dependency on oil. But now I see the problem of a person wanting to fix an electric car that has a proprietary computer system to run the car.Is there any open source movements on electric vehicles?
(DIR) Post #9r0RjChcm5yjCsM3to by rob@fosstodon.org
2020-01-13T15:51:35Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@yogthos We want Free and Open Source tractors! #DeleteJohnDeere 😂
(DIR) Post #9r6phQipfq1OMRjP2O by yogthos@mastodon.social
2020-01-15T01:02:33Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@brian_enders yeah it's pretty much all products now, and not sure if there's any open source movement around electric vehicles.Unfortunately, open source hardware has a much bigger barrier to entry than software as well.
(DIR) Post #9r6phR6aFX1JY6qN3g by shellkr@mstdn.io
2020-01-18T00:41:08Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@yogthos @brian_enders The Tesla runs on Ubuntu and Elon open sourced the motors if I am not mistaken. Otherwise I am not aware of an Open Hardware Car..InMoov the robot is pretty cool and open hardware. FarmBot is another open future tech. So things do happen.
(DIR) Post #9r7ONwBcTezmY9dYOG by clacke@libranet.de
2020-01-18T07:10:00Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@shellkr @brian_enders @yogthos There is nothing open source about the Tesla hardware, but he did promise not to enforce the patents.
(DIR) Post #9r9mtUC2sR70DIKfOi by almn76@troet.cafe
2020-01-13T06:52:03Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@yogthos The idea of private property is not erasing, the opposite is true. More and more public goods are owned by private, but ... by the 1%, not by the 99%. Private property is not the problem, more important is the (in)equality of ownership.#capitalism
(DIR) Post #9r9mtUbvKDoPVYRKjY by yogthos@mastodon.social
2020-01-13T13:43:14Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@almn76 as I explained in other comments, I meant it from the perspective of the consumer
(DIR) Post #9r9mtUvm8PgwV7jBg0 by almn76@troet.cafe
2020-01-13T22:54:18Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@yogthos Never in history customers owned that much things than now.Example: Telephone service was a public service in the past, nobody owned a telephone. Then private companies offered telecommunication services and rented the telephones to their customers. These day there are a lot of different tc companies, and you are the owner of your telephone device.I forgot to mention this first & jumped right away to the inequality of property, I hope this is easier to understand now
(DIR) Post #9r9mtVCn79IpLtgmCO by yogthos@mastodon.social
2020-01-14T00:14:09Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@almn76 if you have a phone running Android or iOS, as majority of people do, then you absolutely do not own it. In fact, it's locked away from you by the manufacturer. Google and Apple decide what apps you're allowed to run on it and whether it will work at all.
(DIR) Post #9r9mtVVZzIKcIATmU4 by almn76@troet.cafe
2020-01-18T21:34:58Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@yogthos Using a smartphone with #Android OS, you can install all kind of apps your hardware is able to run. Open source software is available on F-Droid, "third-party-apps" can be installed on the device, system apps can be modified by #ADB, you can limit the internet access through firewalls like #Netguard.
(DIR) Post #9r9mtVjl8Zfr0976aO by yogthos@mastodon.social
2020-01-18T22:23:02Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@almn76 that's true, but most vendors won't sell you an unlocked phone. So, the device itself is locked from you by default, and Google has the final say on how you use it.You can root your phone, but that's you working around the fact that the device is locked from you at that point.
(DIR) Post #9r9mtWCTPoduRCY2LI by almn76@troet.cafe
2020-01-19T09:22:08Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@yogthos I guess you are living in the US. There and in Japan it's quite common that you get an locked phone from your provider. In Europe and the rest of Asia most people buy an unlocked smartphone just as a normal electronic device and a separate simcard of the mobile operator. The same with modem/router of DSL access at home. Isn't Walmart (or similar) selling unlocked phones in your country?
(DIR) Post #9rC9poBJJ2ZGJE7jhQ by shellkr@mstdn.io
2020-01-20T14:20:35Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@clacke @brian_enders @yogthos Yes, you are right.. and it was not just the motors but a "release" of many tesla patents for use by others. They are also pretty good at following the GPL when it comes to a company.