Post 9qZrZVwcTCcAPTWc9A by xactoknife@mastodon.social
(DIR) More posts by xactoknife@mastodon.social
(DIR) Post #9qWwWuM3ApuDXp7J2W by sir@cmpwn.com
2019-12-31T17:07:43Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
Many programmers fail to grok the fact that social systems are not governed by the same rules as computer systems. Social systems are subjective, and attempting to apply objective rules to them does not work.
(DIR) Post #9qWwvDSXnJX7kMkGsy by sir@cmpwn.com
2019-12-31T17:12:02Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
A practical consequence of this is that I dislike the use of codes of conduct as an objective document. They're just boilerplate on top of "don't be a dickhead", which is the real missive enforced by project leadership. It's more important to identify if your values align with the leadership than if they align with a code of conduct, because at the end of the day the leadership is enforcing their values.If the leadership tries to enforce the letter of a code of conduct, they leave loopholes large enough for bad actors to drive a truck through by weasel wording their behavior to be within the letter of the CoC, if not the spirit of it.So instead, in my opinion, it's better to just skip this entirely. Projects should make clear who's in charge, and then govern themselves based on their own values, which they were going to do anyway. Participants should then consider if the leader's values align with their own, which they should be doing anyway. No further formalisms are necessary.
(DIR) Post #9qWx5WJQYQvJ78OVtI by sir@cmpwn.com
2019-12-31T17:12:29Z
6 likes, 1 repeats
A practical consequence of this is that I dislike the use of codes of conduct as an objective document. They're just boilerplate on top of "don't be a dickhead", which is the real missive enforced by project leadership. It's more important to identify if your values align with the leadership than if they align with a code of conduct, because at the end of the day the leadership is enforcing their values.If the leadership tries to suspend their values to enforce the letter of a code of conduct, they leave loopholes large enough for bad actors to drive a truck through by weasel wording their behavior to be within the letter of the CoC, if not the spirit of it.So instead, in my opinion, it's better to just skip this entirely. Projects should make clear who's in charge, and then govern themselves based on their own values, which they were going to do anyway. Participants should then consider if the leader's values align with their own, which they should be doing anyway. No further formalisms are necessary.
(DIR) Post #9qWxBVNUwPcZxC9VFA by sir@cmpwn.com
2019-12-31T17:13:58Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
I should probably write a long-form article about my philosophy of project governance
(DIR) Post #9qWxHSTGf6UQfwgoy0 by amiloradovsky@functional.cafe
2019-12-31T17:15:22Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@sir Any complex computer systems aren't governed by a (simple & strict) rules either — say, a distributed program — good luck figuring it out and making it do what you want…
(DIR) Post #9qX0vAG06GrpdE6p8q by Wolf480pl@niu.moe
2019-12-31T17:57:27Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sirI think there's still space for semi-formal documenta stating the rules, but not in the form of your average CoC.A) Guidelines for new users. If new members or outside visitors frequently come into your community, it's good to give them a list warning against common newbwie mistakes, eg "don't post off-topic, don't post if you have nothing to say, don't write in ALL CAPS".B) Statements of values. It's non-binding and doesn't have to be precise, but should be enough for outsiders to tell if this place is not for them.
(DIR) Post #9qX2nldLS1sz91d2fI by rage@fosstodon.org
2019-12-31T18:17:38Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir that's why I just submit my patches on the mailing list and move on. My code is the only thing that should matter.
(DIR) Post #9qXE5Rq0t9ekSRBh44 by xinayder@fosstodon.org
2019-12-31T20:24:11Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sirI don't understand how "don't be a dickhead" isn't clear, objective and doesn't apply to everyone and why people think the Contributor Covenant is something good when it's full of loopholes and wording that are unnecessary and that actually promote exclusion rather than inclusion
(DIR) Post #9qXRVvHvJaWUjGCGkS by chidgey@engineered.space
2019-12-31T22:55:23.083598Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir Yes.
(DIR) Post #9qZqKYy4qXw5UOVuXQ by xactoknife@mastodon.social
2020-01-02T02:38:23Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir I would disagree because if we want it to be around a while we need to have a way to protect users from the possibility of an overzealous admin. in the very same way a government works because unfortunately unless it is a very small group getting a large number of people to migrate to a new service is very difficult. I actually was a member of a D&D group that did something like this where we had a formal governance setup where the DM was elected before each campaign, etc...
(DIR) Post #9qZqPW1DEvrFn1LFY0 by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-01-02T02:38:49Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@xactoknife in software projects, that escape hatch is forking
(DIR) Post #9qZqYuzFmFhPpluPw0 by xactoknife@mastodon.social
2020-01-02T02:44:56Z
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@sir that is always an option and in fact it was that very same process that gave rise to our D&D group, the rule set we had was a direct response to an overzealous admin. because we wanted to never have the need to fork. but that should be the solution of last resort (ala the nuclear option) with rules in place to protect the users from the possibility of needing to do it again. this is because we learned that getting people to switch services is strenuous, difficult, time consuming, etc...
(DIR) Post #9qZqjqhe2sTBjUsvcO by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-01-02T02:45:23Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@xactoknife agreed on all counts but still fall on the side of the spectrum I described in my initial post
(DIR) Post #9qZrZVwcTCcAPTWc9A by xactoknife@mastodon.social
2020-01-02T02:54:44Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir completely understandable, I think that for a lot of social platforms that is enough, and a federated future of a bunch of small servers if each one implements this and it remains small enough to be moderated by one person it'll work, the problem lies where one server gets too big for one person to moderate and you need a full mod team with differing views on what being a dick is.
(DIR) Post #9qeQ218YGTfEKki0bA by jplebreton@mastodon.social
2020-01-04T07:40:59Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir i mainly just want to know if i'll be sharing a service with transphobes, fascist sympathizers etc down the line because the leaders / admins decided those issues aren't real enough to them to violate some naive power-blind hacker fairness principle.it's def 100% about enforcement (ie subjective, as you say) over stated rules but the latter are often a better early indicator than, i guess, reading someone's social feed? rules should be written with a keen awareness of their ambiguities.