Post 9pyeFD1PI0NORHVY5A by kick@blob.cat
(DIR) More posts by kick@blob.cat
(DIR) Post #9pxTNFIrOhV5B5LDiS by sir@cmpwn.com
2019-12-14T14:26:10Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
Okay, forget the other criteria for now. What is an FP lang you like with a small and ergonomic syntax/grammar, and why do you like it?
(DIR) Post #9pxTmO9XdDNPrdyI8O by asonix@asonix.dog
2019-12-14T14:30:00Z
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@sir I like elixir but I haven't written any in a few years and I'm also bad at itI like it because the language is pretty simple, but you can dig into the OTP for fancy concurrency thingsI also like Elm but it's only useful for frontend web
(DIR) Post #9pxU6U0Pa4QPo9HatM by carl@linuxrocks.online
2019-12-14T14:33:54Z
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@sir I quite like SML it is very simple with not a lot of features. I wouldn't use it in production but it is quite good to learn FP.
(DIR) Post #9pxUBgK3DNSfSIwpCy by codesections@fosstodon.org
2019-12-14T14:35:44Z
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@sir > What is an FP lang you like with a small and ergonomic syntax/grammar, and why do you like it?I don't have a language that fits all those criteria at the moment, but bel (http://www.paulgraham.com/bel.html) seems promising in this regard> The goal of Bel is to be a good language. This can be measured in the length of programs written in it.… It's also meant to be simple and clear. If you want to understand Bel's semantics, you can read the source.
(DIR) Post #9pxUI21vQ34QWBUuem by sir@cmpwn.com
2019-12-14T14:36:07Z
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@codesections lisp syntax is small, but it's not ergonomic
(DIR) Post #9pxUWX9oUAYB6z6PGS by codesections@fosstodon.org
2019-12-14T14:39:33Z
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@sir > lisp syntax is small, but it's not ergonomicNo accounting for taste, I suppose :D
(DIR) Post #9pxWsdEykSmsG3BQsi by wim_v12e@cybre.space
2019-12-14T15:05:06Z
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@sir Probably not what you want to hear, but Haskell has very little syntax and grammar; and I like it. I'm not sure what "ergonomic" means for syntax, I guess not having to type too much? I also like Elixir and LiveScript.
(DIR) Post #9pxXbYwBat9BwXolNo by karroffel@mastodon.gamedev.place
2019-12-14T15:13:23Z
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@sir I really enjoy Idris! It is a lot like Haskell but if feels more consistent as most features are only build on top of dependent types and don't have special language support.Also the way you can interact with the compiler is really amazing!https://www.idris-lang.org/
(DIR) Post #9pxXkExXF3teaWaRBA by gabrielpoca@mastodon.technology
2019-12-14T15:13:43Z
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@sir it may not be the best choice for everything, but elixir is small and ergonomic. The language is mostly complete and the ecosystem leverages the beam, which is mature. It has been a joy to use regularly these past three years.
(DIR) Post #9pxk6N4IyIyrYj4YNs by s_ol@merveilles.town
2019-12-14T17:32:16Z
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@siralright, then let's redo http://janet-lang.org:- embeddable- lean C API- has mutable and immutable types with symmetric/orthagonal syntax and semantics- supports app-defined native types (relevant to my use case)- doesn't try to represent everything as a tuple- doesn't want me to know a lot of math--if the above doesn't make that obvious, this is biased towards a scripting use case where the language is used to fill in small to medium size parts of projects.
(DIR) Post #9pxmBEhXhwI6xtsCC8 by amiloradovsky@functional.cafe
2019-12-14T16:34:25Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@carl @sir Core #OCaml (without tho OO) is also pretty nice, yet practical. I also like #Gallina (#Coq).
(DIR) Post #9pxzQgOiJYwcbylIhc by yogthos@mastodon.social
2019-12-14T20:25:03Z
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@sir Clojure for me, wrote about why here a while back https://yogthos.net/posts/2013-08-18-Why-I-m-Productive-in-Clojure.html
(DIR) Post #9py2MKWE18dVSYtJy4 by yogthos@mastodon.social
2019-12-14T20:58:03Z
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@sir @codesections I find it very ergonomic myself because it facilitates structural editing better than any other syntax I've used. With s-expressions I'm able to think in terms of blocks of logic as opposed to lines of code. I can say take this expression and put it here, etc.It also provides more visual information because it's effectively a diagram of relationships in your code. You can quickly scan it and see general relationships based on nesting.
(DIR) Post #9py48Q12yxaQMYno3c by julienxx@mastodon.sdf.org
2019-12-14T21:17:25Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@sir I quite like Erlang or Elixir if you prefer a more common syntax. Can’t live without pattern-matching afterwards
(DIR) Post #9py4sL6TZwZCRqEqHY by jacereda@functional.cafe
2019-12-14T21:25:43Z
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@sir maybe Scopes https://bitbucket.org/duangle/scopes/wiki/HomeI LOVE the SPIR-V integration.
(DIR) Post #9py5fbPXjiS5DMeC0G by jacereda@functional.cafe
2019-12-14T21:35:02Z
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@sir Carp is also nice. Rust semantics, Lisp syntax, C interop, small... https://github.com/carp-lang
(DIR) Post #9pyDDit98o5fvki932 by nwallace@social.librem.one
2019-12-14T23:00:12Z
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@codesections @sir As much as I hate the JVM, Clojure is amazing precisely because it's an ergonomic LISP. Hash, set, and vector literals, threading macros, destructuring semantics.... If Clojure weren't on the JVM, it would be soooooo good
(DIR) Post #9pydcTE76dJXP6ymPI by kick@blob.cat
2019-12-15T03:56:16.614885Z
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@codesections @sir Lispheads never seem to remember that S-Expressions weren't initially intended for every single thing in Lisp; search Wikipedia for M-Expressions. Is it really a taste thing when every modern dialect does away with the things that make the language ergonomic?
(DIR) Post #9pyeFD1PI0NORHVY5A by kick@blob.cat
2019-12-15T04:03:16.664729Z
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@sir Any k <k5; incredibly quick to work with, just about as fast as C on some of the better libre implementations, interpreted, program-size is dramatically less than most languages.I'd say APL but it's impossible to get people to like APL for some reason, and people who haven't tried it/watched someone else write in it think it's the opposite of ergonomic. :blobcatthink:
(DIR) Post #9pzSHBcMTYIsN7vgfY by sir@cmpwn.com
2019-12-15T13:22:27Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@kick if you need a special keyboard to use it, it's not ergonomic.
(DIR) Post #9pzqCos7V3mnZJkcS0 by kick@blob.cat
2019-12-15T17:52:00.430189Z
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@sir k exclusively uses ASCII. It's incredibly ergonomic.APL doesn't need a special keyboard; you can just set yours to an APL layout in the same way you can set a keyboard to any other layout in software (I personally have mine bound to switch between my normal layout and an APL layout when I hit scroll lock, for example). It's not a problem if you know how to touch type: it translates pretty cleanly.
(DIR) Post #9pzqob1fQYzxd8EJU0 by sir@cmpwn.com
2019-12-15T17:58:23Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@kick you're nuts if you think this is ergonomic.
(DIR) Post #9pzrEjfNvNLPxRGuIq by kick@blob.cat
2019-12-15T18:03:32.771413Z
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@sir I feel like you're not giving it a fair chance just because it's not an ALGOL-derivative like all of your favorite languages. It allows dramatically less typing, dramatically less finger movement, and far faster translation of ideas to code. As far as I'm aware, that's literally as close to the dictionary definition of ergonomic you can get.Though on that note: what's your opinion on ALGOL?
(DIR) Post #9pzrS3NXwhs0rJHKAy by sir@cmpwn.com
2019-12-15T18:05:13Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@kick and I feel like you're batshit insane.
(DIR) Post #9pzrXrki5MIwXOsuGG by kick@blob.cat
2019-12-15T18:07:00.565754Z
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@sir ok dijkstra
(DIR) Post #9pzrwzNAtFDNPZr6si by kick@blob.cat
2019-12-15T18:11:32.443116Z
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@sir If you ever take a stab at Cantonese, maybe give another look at APL? There's a reason so many APL programmers come from Hong Kong (you can store more in your active memory in Cantonese, which lessens the initial culture-shock for people coming from ALGOL backgrounds).
(DIR) Post #9pzs04krKueIyLPDoe by kazuma@blob.cat
2019-12-15T18:12:06.096782Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@kick @sir oh? how does that work?
(DIR) Post #9pzsbmpIRTOgN9SmKO by kick@blob.cat
2019-12-15T18:18:56.468243Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@kazuma @sir It has 9 tones, which is double the length of similar languages, and allows you to express more in smaller amounts. This has been common knowledge in a lot of fields that have their own notation for years, but lately there have been a few studies popping up on the information transfer rates of various languages and I'm pretty sure Cantonese is at least near the top on most of them. Mandarin also beats English, but not as much.
(DIR) Post #9pzsjWrLgsFLAW7CAS by kick@blob.cat
2019-12-15T18:20:19.543913Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@kazuma @sir Length was the wrong word to use there; typo. Length -> Amount.
(DIR) Post #9pztLRZDodfZl6iPoW by kazuma@blob.cat
2019-12-15T18:27:11.400859Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@kick @sir huh, i was wondering if it was because of hanzi, but it doesn't seem like thatwonder what's so special about it...that's pretty amazing
(DIR) Post #9pzuQWWWulimX8RUX2 by chucker@mastodon.social
2019-12-15T18:38:17Z
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@sir @codesections I’m not sure it’s possible not to passionately _hate_ FP languages, but since apparently nobody has mentioned F#, let me do so. It has very cool features like type providers and units of measure, and I’m jealous of that!
(DIR) Post #9q0IpA9rbWOzJ77dgW by kick@blob.cat
2019-12-15T23:12:37.705742Z
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@sir Ooh, wait! Is the reason you think it's not ergonomic to have a different character set because you can't use vim? If so: the author of co-dfns mostly uses an ed clone he wrote, and there are multiple people who write APL in vim without a substantial change in workflow compared to conventional languages.
(DIR) Post #9q0J1h7EtUyyzys0y8 by sir@cmpwn.com
2019-12-15T23:14:18Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@kick no, I think it's not ergonomic to have a different character set because it /requires a different fucking character set/
(DIR) Post #9q0JIOCgSjJhGaNTeK by kick@blob.cat
2019-12-15T23:17:57.135875Z
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@sir It...doesn't require a different character set? Basically every implementation works fine with UTF-8, because just about every APL character has a direct representation in Unicode.But fair enough, I guess. :blobcatsad:
(DIR) Post #9q0LFtnKkbbsHgSc7M by sir@cmpwn.com
2019-12-15T23:18:40Z
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@kick :blobastonished:
(DIR) Post #9ql1SYJiOUG6qw6jvE by clacke@libranet.de
2020-01-07T12:08:54Z
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@jacereda Haven't tried #carp yet, even though it's #SwedishProgramming 🙂