Post 9oZ3enUXm76j0bAPtA by animeirl@social.homunyan.com
(DIR) More posts by animeirl@social.homunyan.com
(DIR) Post #9oYylwrKqTNEJmPz0q by r000t@ligma.pro
2019-11-02T20:58:41Z
0 likes, 2 repeats
Kaniini jumps into a discussion dude wasn't invited into, proceeds to tell me I don't work in the field I work in. This is why I can't support OCAP. Its marketing department is... out of this world.
(DIR) Post #9oYzP0Xv4Ux92vxg0W by r000t@ligma.pro
2019-11-02T21:05:44Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
Physicist: No, we're pretty sure there's *not* a way to make a magical glass pane that only passes light to good and honest people. Kaniini: But people have use cases for that! Physicist: I'm in the business of studying the interactions of light and other matter, and I'm p sure there's no way to prevent "bad" people from seeing light you reflect without controlling who's around itKaniini: You ain't in the business of fuck all. Show me the panes.
(DIR) Post #9oYzeu3WyAVbYDKKX2 by animeirl@social.homunyan.com
2019-11-02T21:08:36Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@r000t how can you say they weren't invited when you literally tragged them in your post?
(DIR) Post #9oYzsIqU76q4COc94K by r000t@ligma.pro
2019-11-02T21:11:02Z
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@animeirl Simple; This screenshot doesn't reflect the entire conversation. There is a point in it wherein they join the discussion without having been tagged prior, with a fucking 5 paragraph essay to boot, because I chided their pet project. In fact, here it is!
(DIR) Post #9oZ0D7WFQ6jz9U4iGG by feld@bikeshed.party
2019-11-02T21:14:48.571062Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@r000t they're tagged in the fucking screenshot what do you mean "not invited"
(DIR) Post #9oZ0ETwjWPq0zx73Cq by animeirl@social.homunyan.com
2019-11-02T21:15:02Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@r000t thanks. also i would argue having empathy for people would include not giving them a false sense of security
(DIR) Post #9oZ0IAEKlfOH0Z6KIK by mewmew@blob.cat
2019-11-02T21:15:43.793229Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@r000t @animeirl how about linking the thread?
(DIR) Post #9oZ0Lun67334HZ9Mgq by mewmew@blob.cat
2019-11-02T21:16:24.519383Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@r000t @animeirl also, if you didn't want them in the discussion, do it in direct messages. it's always been the nature of this network to jump into random threads, don't start crying victim now that people are doing it to disagree with you
(DIR) Post #9oZ0cD5Rr9qrexVHW4 by animeirl@social.homunyan.com
2019-11-02T21:19:09Z
3 likes, 1 repeats
@mewmew @r000t yeah complaining about tumblrisms while engaging in one of the most tumblry practices ever is kind of hypocritical
(DIR) Post #9oZ0rPhzDCOl9GmMMq by feld@bikeshed.party
2019-11-02T21:22:05.076312Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@r000t @animeirl pro tip: don't post in public if you don't want the public to interact.Whinging because you're insufferable and trying to lay blame on @kaniini just shows your weak character
(DIR) Post #9oZ2U3ZZXtMnkApka8 by r000t@ligma.pro
2019-11-02T21:40:16Z
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@feld Howdy! This question has already been answered!https://ligma.pro/@r000t/103070371846711257
(DIR) Post #9oZ2YJxoXvcdjoCq1I by r000t@ligma.pro
2019-11-02T21:41:02Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@mewmew @animeirl Oh, I 100% agree with you. It's just that, I jumped into a discussion a few months ago, and was told this was a bad and awful thing to do. Double standards are interesting, ain't they?
(DIR) Post #9oZ2agtIH6LpQMDnsm by mewmew@blob.cat
2019-11-02T21:41:29.142514Z
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@r000t @animeirl what discussion, and who told you this?
(DIR) Post #9oZ2eSwE5njfJDORwO by r000t@ligma.pro
2019-11-02T21:42:09Z
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@feld @animeirl @kaniini Oh, I 100% agree with you. It's just that, I jumped into a discussion a few months ago, and was told this was a bad and awful thing to do. Double standards are interesting, ain't they?
(DIR) Post #9oZ2lq0yh04suI8CIK by r000t@ligma.pro
2019-11-02T21:43:29Z
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@mewmew @animeirl I believe the discussion was about "automatically" disabling the Mastodon software for anybody "deemed to be a nazi", I asked what criterion would be used, and dude's whole instance dogpiled immediately. Juuuuuuuuuuuuust following the leader!
(DIR) Post #9oZ2mwmV1KUkBMt6o4 by kaniini@socially.whimsic.al
2019-11-02T21:43:42.188991Z
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@r000t @feld @animeirl I jumped into the conversation because you were being derisive toward people who do have legitimate concerns even if their proposed solutions are bad.
(DIR) Post #9oZ2vGgIus8aDZxRmy by animeirl@social.homunyan.com
2019-11-02T21:45:10Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@r000t @mewmew who?
(DIR) Post #9oZ2wYlNArj6aSwcnQ by mewmew@blob.cat
2019-11-02T21:45:26.416920Z
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@r000t @animeirl I don't think Kaniini was the one doing that.kinda association fallacy there
(DIR) Post #9oZ31gYxbOkQE3aCbA by r000t@ligma.pro
2019-11-02T21:46:21Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@mewmew @animeirl Got it. Where's the published list of people allowed to join public conversations?
(DIR) Post #9oZ31lJXw8OAxhPSlc by animeirl@social.homunyan.com
2019-11-02T21:46:15Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@mewmew @r000t no you see if one person you don't agree with believes something that means everyone you disagree with believes all the exact same things
(DIR) Post #9oZ36JHVacJnT2cok4 by animeirl@social.homunyan.com
2019-11-02T21:47:10Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@r000t @mewmew if you want to go generate a list of every account on the fediverse then go for it dude
(DIR) Post #9oZ37bRtWqA26Q6F2O by mewmew@blob.cat
2019-11-02T21:47:25.894958Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@r000t @animeirl literally everyone? you miss the point, I think you're allowed to join a random conversation, I'm sure most other people, especially on this side of the network, agree, the network isn't a monolith though, and people can disagree on things here.
(DIR) Post #9oZ3C0sEwQRk7BWdVI by tn5421@niu.moe
2019-11-02T21:48:12Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@r000t @mewmew @animeirl anyone that can see a post is allowed to joinwhether it's smart to do so is another story
(DIR) Post #9oZ3HPs9QOQV5v3nNI by r000t@ligma.pro
2019-11-02T21:49:11Z
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@tn5421 @mewmew @animeirl There's also a major difference between joining a conversation and taking pot shots at its participants. I was dogpiled for asking a legitimate question in regards to implementation. Kaniini's getting a pass for straight-up ad hominem.
(DIR) Post #9oZ3LgOBxQv7Tk56y8 by mewmew@blob.cat
2019-11-02T21:49:58.854764Z
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@r000t @tn5421 @animeirl I still don't see why you didn't link the thread from the beginning, allowing us to decide for ourselves
(DIR) Post #9oZ3MFMztrlFyAn9Sy by feld@bikeshed.party
2019-11-02T21:50:04.345069Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@r000t @animeirl @kaniini you should not have been chided for that. If people want a private conversation and not a public discussion there are many options to do so
(DIR) Post #9oZ3MScMe2mH3b56iu by tn5421@niu.moe
2019-11-02T21:50:06Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@r000t @mewmew @animeirl kaniini is the modern day linus torvalds, i think people just don't give a shit anymore
(DIR) Post #9oZ3PELIB1JxeSPtzc by tn5421@niu.moe
2019-11-02T21:50:35Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@r000t @mewmew @animeirl it's like trying to argue that Delores Umbridge isn't hated enough.
(DIR) Post #9oZ3T5uJTqLOeHdkGG by animeirl@social.homunyan.com
2019-11-02T21:51:17Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@r000t @tn5421 @mewmew if your complaint is with the tone kaniini used and not the argument then it does sound like maybe you should actually go back to tumblr
(DIR) Post #9oZ3Vx7uaDOMHiMbWy by mewmew@blob.cat
2019-11-02T21:51:49.406287Z
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@tn5421 @r000t @animeirl lots of people hate Kaniini because Kaniini doesn't easily give into pressure from people, so she's very frustrating to them, especially since they expect to get it from others.
(DIR) Post #9oZ3WHi63ODi7jRmi0 by r000t@ligma.pro
2019-11-02T21:51:53Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@mewmew @animeirl @tn5421 There you go. Muting the conversation. I got a Zaunite street punk to hang out with. https://socially.whimsic.al/notice/9oX7J0Qmj2AMyKuMsK
(DIR) Post #9oZ3XP95tVoXTRborw by kaniini@socially.whimsic.al
2019-11-02T21:52:05.719851Z
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@feld @r000t @animeirl yeah, i don't see any problem in joining a public conversation. then again, I don't use the elephant software.what i do see a problem with is basically laughing at people for being burned by the fact that they have to either choose to make things public or use a completely broken followers-only scope or use a completely broken form of direct messaging.which is why i joined the conversation to begin with.
(DIR) Post #9oZ3enUXm76j0bAPtA by animeirl@social.homunyan.com
2019-11-02T21:52:44Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@kaniini @feld @r000t followers only scope is so broken it shouldn't exist. thats my opinion glad we settled that
(DIR) Post #9oZ3enuQDto8IrH5E0 by kaniini@socially.whimsic.al
2019-11-02T21:53:26.053326Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@animeirl @feld @r000t preaching to the choir, hince my strong desire to repeal and replace it
(DIR) Post #9oZ3p9RZ0sBlzGi6NM by feld@bikeshed.party
2019-11-02T21:55:17.761949Z
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@r000t my sincere apology for overreacting back there -- I see we had misunderstandings on many sides of this interaction
(DIR) Post #9oZ4lQUJngApe4momO by animeirl@social.homunyan.com
2019-11-02T22:04:55Z
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@kaniini @feld @r000t repeal and replace and build a great wall around the posts
(DIR) Post #9oZ4lQvcAC0Z0jYcKG by kaniini@socially.whimsic.al
2019-11-02T22:05:49.878064Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@animeirl @feld @r000t if people want to have a wall, let them. why are you entitled to viewing 100% of their content? should all e-mails be publicly readable?
(DIR) Post #9oZ5Dzv9egwBe9xkzA by animeirl@social.homunyan.com
2019-11-02T22:10:34Z
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@kaniini @feld @r000t if people try to get into the private instance we'll put them in detention centers
(DIR) Post #9oZ5E0FMRZ6IepPtTs by kaniini@socially.whimsic.al
2019-11-02T22:10:59.867034Z
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@animeirl @feld @r000t thanks Obama
(DIR) Post #9oZ5Mdflk771Fet2Q4 by thatbrickster@aria.company
2019-11-02T22:12:33.458297Z
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@kaniini Can I waterboard them for fun?@animeirl @feld @r000t
(DIR) Post #9oZ5QS2yuNuILzYuMi by animeirl@social.homunyan.com
2019-11-02T22:12:45Z
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@kaniini @feld @r000t we can also send drones to conduct DDOS against admins who don't agree with our policies
(DIR) Post #9oZ5QSqxuXtCr0wpH6 by kaniini@socially.whimsic.al
2019-11-02T22:13:14.488887Z
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@animeirl @feld @r000t i'm sure in the absence of actual security, it's coming, just like it happened on IRC
(DIR) Post #9oZ5da0ecDi4oUjXkW by animeirl@social.homunyan.com
2019-11-02T22:13:37Z
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@kaniini @feld @r000t lol that is a good point
(DIR) Post #9oZ5dazywClZshQWLA by kaniini@socially.whimsic.al
2019-11-02T22:15:36.980181Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@animeirl @feld @r000t but hey, people don't want security. even the people who professionally do security say that anybody who wants to secure activitypub is a snowflake.so i'm pretty close to just saying fuck it honestly.the reality is, i've had more fun coding on my other projects than working on fediverse stuff for a while now.
(DIR) Post #9oZ5lyYJFXbdFSTlOy by toast@toast.cafe
2019-11-02T22:17:07.306771Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@kaniini @animeirl @feld @r000t this is sounding familiar to me...:^)
(DIR) Post #9oZ6qOVslmVYsR0yLA by kaniini@socially.whimsic.al
2019-11-02T22:29:06.670387Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@animeirl @feld @r000t i try to be enthusiastic about this stuff, in fact, i felt like after APconf, maybe we have a new wave of energy to start to make progress on these problems in a meaningful way.but then you see people like r000t who just sit around deriding everyone because they complained the features they were sold by Mastodon were rotten. a security professional laughing at people for actually wanting the security they were sold. this especially frustrates me because that schadenfreude mentality undermines what we are trying to accomplish here.
(DIR) Post #9oZ70e3rohzxzinZyK by kaniini@socially.whimsic.al
2019-11-02T22:31:00.068146Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@toast @animeirl @feld @r000t yes, just like alpine, when the landscape gets too fucked, i know when to quit.
(DIR) Post #9oZ9tb2OxaHUS6RZYm by r000t@infosec.exchange
2019-11-02T23:02:59Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@kaniini @feld @r000t @animeirl I do, indeed, want real actual security. ActivityPub was designed to be adopted by the large web properties, and that won't happen without real actual security. But here's the bit: I want real. actual. security. Not a "PROTECTED BY OCAP" sign in the front yard. Implying I don't want actual security as much as anybody else is nothing short of libel.
(DIR) Post #9oZA9bAWF0CfUXs3w8 by kaniini@socially.whimsic.al
2019-11-02T23:06:11.728983Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@feld @r000t @animeirl I agree there. but that's not what I am building :)and this is why the effort moves slowly. we want to be confident in what we are doing.anyway I'm sorry for being a dick last night. you guys were just shooting some shit but it was frustrating to see people who want the security they were promised referred to as snowflakes basically.peace?
(DIR) Post #9oZADQKeTO872bR08O by mewmew@blob.cat
2019-11-02T23:06:54.168403Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@r000t @kaniini @feld @r000t @animeirl I think you're looking at what people paint OCAP as instead of what OCAP actually is.
(DIR) Post #9oZAckd29FhTEG6qky by r000t@infosec.exchange
2019-11-02T23:08:51Z
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@mewmew @r000t @kaniini @animeirl @feld I set aside time later tonight to actually read the entire spec and not just abstracts. What I understand it to be, is PlaysForSure but for ActivityPub statuses. PlaysForSure was trash.
(DIR) Post #9oZAcq7hieCkGpUuky by kaniini@socially.whimsic.al
2019-11-02T23:11:27.943458Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@r000t @mewmew @r000t @animeirl @feld there is no spec. there have been proposed constructions which have not moved forward as of yet. I'm not a security professional, and this is a complex system so it's a matter of going through ideas and revising them until we have the primitives needed. Rome wasn't built in a day, you know?
(DIR) Post #9oZAhuCVzCcsMgABqi by r000t@infosec.exchange
2019-11-02T23:11:04Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@kaniini @feld @r000t @animeirl Federation is, to put it lightly, confusing. I feel the documentation needs work to be aimed at Joe Blow, but as I said earlier in this thread, a high barrier to entry may be *good*. I was only ever chiding those vocal people who are pushing for specific features they do not understand, so that they can use it to push a political agenda. They exist, and I'm sure you can't be happy with them either. In fact, you've said as much before.
(DIR) Post #9oZAhwvFrpbOo16wrY by r000t@infosec.exchange
2019-11-02T23:11:55Z
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@kaniini @feld @r000t @animeirl The biggest problem with "The security they were promised" is because, tehcnically, they got it. The promise was buried in RFCs that Jow Blow doesn't read. Just ask anybody what "Unlisted" is for. You'll spark a holy war.
(DIR) Post #9oZAlh0EzvROafECqO by kaniini@socially.whimsic.al
2019-11-02T23:13:05.196174Z
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@r000t @feld @r000t @animeirl I'm talking about the security Mastodon's marketing department promised ;)
(DIR) Post #9oZAsoYBKpco1dV2TQ by r000t@infosec.exchange
2019-11-02T23:14:09Z
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@kaniini @feld @r000t @animeirl yeah mastodon gaslights users too damned much. it's the biggest reason no security assurances it provides mean a damn, because it's based on your instance lying to you.
(DIR) Post #9oZB2rvRdnPPOCAujA by kaniini@socially.whimsic.al
2019-11-02T23:16:12.668146Z
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@r000t @feld @r000t @animeirl right, and so my frustration last night was you guys were shooting the shit (fine, I get it) and it just came off as you guys laughing at the poor Mastodon users for being gaslit.pleroma doesn't play along and I take heat for this all the time, but I think it's important to show that AP leaks like a sieve. this doesn't mean we don't have a responsibility to do better though.
(DIR) Post #9oZBESSw7qp1tzMnc8 by r000t@infosec.exchange
2019-11-02T23:16:56Z
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@kaniini @feld @r000t @animeirl To clarify, the target of my ridicule are people who are literally asking to be gaslit
(DIR) Post #9oZBETHz43egSJFZBI by kaniini@socially.whimsic.al
2019-11-02T23:18:18.503196Z
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@r000t @feld @r000t @animeirl that's fair. but when I read about security in this network I look at it from the perspective of my friends who aren't network engineers, you know? and so I see these kinds of posts as laughing at them for being gaslit. surely you can understand where I am coming from :)
(DIR) Post #9oZC87Ofe6vwm6ucaG by kaniini@socially.whimsic.al
2019-11-02T23:28:22.280120Z
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@r000t @animeirl @feld @r000t anyway I do think we have made some progress on a tangible demo. and so I hope I can get that out this month. it doesn't solve any problems directly but does bring us to a point where we can have circles (where the members of the circle are known only to the circle's owner) where everyone in the circle sees all posts in the thread. that is a huge step towards building primitives that solve these pain points correctly imo, since it solves most of the usability problems with followers-only posts...
(DIR) Post #9oZCGpm4XGVkj40w1w by toast@toast.cafe
2019-11-02T23:29:56.616496Z
2 likes, 1 repeats
@kaniini @animeirl @feld @r000t @r000twe google+ now? :blobgiggle: CC @Google P.S. it's a good idea and likely the only decent idea google's implemented in like a decade, please don't take this joke as dismissal or disapproval(need to mention all that because the topic seems quite... charged)
(DIR) Post #9oZChUtKHnUtmF7ZKa by kaniini@socially.whimsic.al
2019-11-02T23:34:45.564518Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Google @animeirl @feld @r000t @r000t @toastnaw I was giving r000t a hard time unfairly. I think really we want the same thing, which is why I mentioned an actual practical aspect of what we are working on with OCAP.and being able to frame everything in a practical way is something that is important, because otherwise you can very easily design some broken DRM thing.and so my mantra is always practical security. and really I think activitypub can be a good teaching tool for practical security.
(DIR) Post #9oZCuEohMXCRgf21nU by toast@toast.cafe
2019-11-02T23:37:04.202869Z
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@kaniini @Google @animeirl @feld @r000t @r000tokay :blobsmile: anyone that wants a hug can get a hugand then we can all move on and be productiveright? :blobowo:
(DIR) Post #9oaLU6yaz3CoaSEney by seeyouindisneyland@infosec.exchange
2019-11-03T11:03:59Z
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@toastI mean... yeah. Almost every major social network in the last decades had granular grouping mechanism for friends/followers/$whatever. Even instagram has "close friends". It's a feature I'd love to see on here.@kaniini @Google @r000t @feld @animeirl @r000t
(DIR) Post #9oaLU7bae4OiXOTwRM by seeyouindisneyland@infosec.exchange
2019-11-03T11:06:19Z
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And my 2ยข re: discussion which derailed from my completely unrelated initial post: Maybe instead of complaining about public shit being public, people should try to actually shut the fuck up once in a while. Just because you *can* dump your thought diarrhea on the interwebs doesn't mean you *should*. Use the correct tools for your specific communication needs. You are allowed to use other tools than Mastodon.@toast @kaniini @Google @r000t @feld @animeirl @r000t
(DIR) Post #9oaLU8AKYuBeH8jgae by kaniini@socially.whimsic.al
2019-11-03T12:47:37.753486Z
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@toast @Google @r000t @feld @animeirl @r000t ah yes, the other strawman argument.so people use the AP network for this because the audience they want to talk to is already here.outside of the AP network they may have to use multiple networks to communicate one message to all of the people they want to see it.maybe people should just shut the fuck up instead of making strawman arguments and calling people snowflakes
(DIR) Post #9oaSKKc08DJvezx94i by toast@toast.cafe
2019-11-03T14:04:34.005108Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@seeyouindisneyland @kaniini @Google @r000t @feld @animeirl @r000thi helloI think it's unreasonable for you (or anyone else) to dictate how any given person use a particular tool (especially non-trivial ones like AP software).I also think it's unreasonable for you to demand people silence their complaints and criticisms just because you don't like them - especially seeing as you don't seem to apply the same standards to yourself.Anyway, people have used AP to do things like host video platforms and blogs.Surely, private-er discussions as advertised isn't that far outside the realm of reasonable expectations.
(DIR) Post #9oaX0Hrr7mcb80d97Y by seeyouindisneyland@infosec.exchange
2019-11-03T14:54:29Z
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@toastI don't post personal/private stuff on a public platform but nice try, I guess? Also, you're misrepresenting what I wrote. I am not trying to silence anyone nor do I dictate anything, just advocating that if you don't want your stuff to be seen by **everyone** you shouldn't post it publically. And if you choose to do it anyway you should be aware of the consequences.@kaniini @r000t @feld @animeirl @r000t
(DIR) Post #9oaX0IU8pRFL2kXinQ by toast@toast.cafe
2019-11-03T14:56:49.812342Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@seeyouindisneyland @kaniini @r000t @feld @animeirl @r000t> people should try to actually shut the fuck up once in a whileyeah you're right, you don't want anyone to be silent :blobwink:> Just because you *can* dump your thought diarrhea on the interwebs doesn't mean you *should*.who are you to say what one should or shouldn't do?is this not you trying to dictate the behavior of others?> if you don't want your stuff to be seen by **everyone** you shouldn't post it publically.this is the exact reason people are asking to make it possible to post things not-publically (or at least less so)why are you against that very concept?in the same vein, why haven't you addressed that part of my reply?