Post 9oICLsOvsN4dH2ITxI by kragen@nerdculture.de
(DIR) More posts by kragen@nerdculture.de
(DIR) Post #9oCwB0yZ5KrTcpxlvU by wohali@octodon.social
2019-10-23T04:29:27Z
1 likes, 5 repeats
I continue to move closer and closer to being done with open source, as a movement, entirely.I am not seeing umbrella organisations that actually "do public good," and have lost faith in the ones I worked with previously. (HINT HINT)I am seeing more burnt-out developers than I should who are dropping out of tech, incapable of supporting their families that way without murdering their consciences via substance abuse, prescription or otherwise.1/???
(DIR) Post #9oCwYt5U47mo6saCBc by anornymorse@shitposter.club
2019-10-23T05:50:16.918666Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wohali If you need money, start a foundation.If you want to help the public, start a foundation.If you want to help (an/your) open source project, start a foundation.It all comes down to "our kids gotta eat". Stop treating the feature like it's a bug.
(DIR) Post #9oD3XSY9wf6XC9GHnE by wohali@octodon.social
2019-10-23T04:31:38Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
I am seeing a flotilla of those who hang on, only to do everyone else's emotional labour, and to fix everyone else's problems, with zero thanks.Only to have their work git pulled by N corporate entities who make millions or billions, and won't even support the project with a pull request, let alone $100.A former corporate lawyer told me that company engaged in OSS for two reasons only: to eliminate marketplace competitive advantages, or as a prestige project....2/???
(DIR) Post #9oD3XSvCYzXILc2gi0 by wohali@octodon.social
2019-10-23T04:34:59Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
None of this is to say that there isn't value in open source in general. When I started, it was part and parcel of using a computer. You got the source to RT-11 with your PDP-11.And after so much PC-based paid software in the 80s, it was great to hit UNIX in the 90s and find open source in elm, icb/irc, tnn/trn, emacs and more - even if commercial UNIX was closed source.But http://apache.org/index.html#projects-list is almost all in service of corporations, not individuals.3/???
(DIR) Post #9oD3XTHBFH7JRmKEy0 by wohali@octodon.social
2019-10-23T04:38:46Z
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And that's where I am today - at a conference for that list in the previous toot. It's increasingly difficult to see any of this work as democratizing or empowering.Even something as promising as PLC4X - a "universal protocol adapter for IoT" - would take almost no effort for the manufacturers to scuttle by changing or securing their protocols incompatibly. It exists merely at the whim of Emerson, Bechkoff, Siemens, etc. It's always going to be playing catch-up.4/???
(DIR) Post #9oD3XTd9vYhKXwbnE0 by wohali@octodon.social
2019-10-23T04:45:12Z
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So maybe Gordon Sumner was right when he sang "Men go crazy in congregations / They only get better one by one."Maybe non-profit foundations as stewards for open source are past their prime, in their current form.I saw a recent post on someone's very creative CSS-driven blog about trying to organise humane Fediverse development around a series of principles that looked eerily similar to "The Apache Way." I can tell you how that could fall apart.5/???
(DIR) Post #9oD3XTwel4IHWPjMcC by wohali@octodon.social
2019-10-23T04:50:22Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
None of the governing processes or bodies that I've seen are prepared to deal with:1. Personality cults, whether the person is fundamentally good or bad. (Kill your ego.)2. "Missing stairs": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_stair3. "Do as I say, not as I do."4. Rage-fuelled witch hunts for whatever cause. We're human. We have frailties. Where's the compassion?5. Not owning the very political stance of OSS itself because "it's only code."6/???
(DIR) Post #9oD3XUIzQ29sdgBCQS by wohali@octodon.social
2019-10-23T04:52:44Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
6. Proper succession planning. You put a Jim or a Frances at the centre of the organisation for years, and when they leave, how do you deal with the Jim- or Frances-shaped hole? No tech non-profit plans for that. (Other non-profits do, regularly, because they give a shit about people.)7. Dependence on volunteered labour that can only occur because $BIGCO hires you to do the volunteer work or you're wealthy and retired. (This one is obvious.)7/???
(DIR) Post #9oD3XUduAGt9gXxu1g by wohali@octodon.social
2019-10-23T04:55:31Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
8. Governance processes that happen, in part, in secret, where people are *horrible* to each other and eat their young. Trial by fire in tech should have ended in the 90s. And sunlight disinfects. (Never mind that any open governance is going to be informed by up to n(n-1)/2 private discussions for n governors anyway.)9. Passive-aggressive (or actively aggressive!) resistance to minority voices - BiPoC, queer, disenfranchised, the poor.8/???
(DIR) Post #9oD3XUyouVcQjPkbcu by wohali@octodon.social
2019-10-23T04:57:44Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
10. The silent backing of the Sheryl Sandberg "Lean In" crowd - and I was guilty of this for years, I am ashamed to admit - making excuses for power and working to reinforce it. Or, as the fediverse puts it, "bad cop energy."11. Vilification of volunteers who can't keep up with their workload. As a society we are too keen to highlight their personal failings rather than trying to work with them to help, on their terms, not ours.9/???
(DIR) Post #9oD3XVLVY9lbrmMizQ by wohali@octodon.social
2019-10-23T04:59:49Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
12. Lack of planning for burnout. This isn't the same as lack of succession planning, and saying "merit doesn't expire" doesn't address the very real emotional needs. Again, volunteer non-profits have methods and whole courses on managing this, why isn't this standard OSS practice by now?10/???
(DIR) Post #9oD3XVl21GBR8wJ6m0 by wohali@octodon.social
2019-10-23T05:01:22Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
13. Creeping corporate influence. Project X starts with a variety of people, and slowly is "taken over" by one entity. No one's watching this except in the very largest projects (like Node or Python). It's become tribal knowledge: "Oh yeah, company Q got bought by company R, and R doesn't like Q's OSS project A', so the commits will start tapering off to nothing." And of course, no one will come out and say this because they might become unhireable.11/???
(DIR) Post #9oD3XW8maxBMKbQ4nI by wohali@octodon.social
2019-10-23T05:03:29Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
(more on 13) I spoke to a very concerned Google employee who was telling me all about their internal efforts to increase representation and diversity in OSS by getting more diverse Google employees involved.I had to point out to them that the more Google employees got involved in their project, the less non-Google (and especially volunteer) contributors would likely get involved.They took this on board, thankfully, but how many don't think of this?12/???
(DIR) Post #9oD3XWUlHElNQlhd3I by wohali@octodon.social
2019-10-23T05:06:04Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
14. Careerists who see contributing to an open source project just as a way to build their resume and get hired. Anyone who's worked as a creative can tell you all about the myth of "work for exposure." And the fraction of "unicorns" who get to start a company around their code base are fewer than actual startup "unicorns."15. Gatekeeping of a "complex" code base to keep it "safe." If you need that, you probably don't actually want to be OSS.13/???
(DIR) Post #9oD3XWzbQZQuyQ8G7k by wohali@octodon.social
2019-10-23T05:08:50Z
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16. Failure to write shit down. Guiding principles need to be captured in a consistent, fair, and enforceable fashion - or they're not useful as guiding principles for a discipline that claims to be about software "engineering" or computer "science."And there's plenty more I have on my list, but that's enough for today.Let's turn to how things can be made better.14/???
(DIR) Post #9oD3XXTNdrFiSm42XQ by wohali@octodon.social
2019-10-23T05:09:59Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
I learned (at least) two lessons that I consider very important in my career:One, that the best leaders are those who focus on uplifting those around them, even to the dereliction of their own "work".15/???
(DIR) Post #9oD3XY7REvIMT0o1ya by wohali@octodon.social
2019-10-23T05:11:02Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
And two, that the most responsible employees are those who do not make themselves indispensable. Learning both of these for myself was a long and hard journey that required many mistakes before I took them both to heart. But now I see anything else as irresponsible.This has become a ruler I can use to measure the maturity of leadership in an organisation very quickly.16/???
(DIR) Post #9oD3XYjMxtdWMeYK6C by wohali@octodon.social
2019-10-23T05:12:51Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
I've made some amazing friendships while working in open source. And while I'm nearing the end of my volunteer work in the field writ large, I'm never done with those friendships.I've needed a lot of time to recover from the damage inflicted by those who decided I was their enemy in open source.I got sick of people gaslighting me.I got sick of people attacking me for simply asking questions.I got sick of the condescension.17/???
(DIR) Post #9oD3XZPCSN64SO7jIe by wohali@octodon.social
2019-10-23T05:13:58Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
I got sick of the -isms.I got tired of people who simply argued from authority.I was baffled by the arguers who refused to allow for independent confirmation of their purported facts.I shouldn't have been surprised by those who refused to have substantive debate.I became disgusted with those who got too attached to their own hypotheses.I knew something was rotten when shillers refused to provide quantification supporting their positions.18/???
(DIR) Post #9oD3Xa2C7OHyPKMs52 by wohali@octodon.social
2019-10-23T05:15:52Z
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And a whole slew of other complaints I simply won't bother typing up; it's all too traumatic.There's a subset of people who think the answer to this kind of exhaustion is to not care, to assume everyone's going to be a jerk, and work anyway. There's an aligned Russian proverb: "The good must have fists."I guess I've learned that that's not me. And as much as people seem to respect and appreciate my leadership, if that's what's required, I'll have to decline.19/???
(DIR) Post #9oD3XajnVHAQaYlh2m by wohali@octodon.social
2019-10-23T05:18:43Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
And to those who think that being traumatized by people being jerks in open source is being too fragile, and just part of the game - where is your humanity and compassion? Who forced you to abandon those, and how long ago? What convinced you to adopt those behaviours yourself?Or is this just your proxy argument for maintaining the status quo demographic of these spaces?I won't play along, and you can't use me as a diversity "freebie" in your pursuits.20/???
(DIR) Post #9oD3XbUahIb6vgf3yq by wohali@octodon.social
2019-10-23T05:21:02Z
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As @AmyZenunim said a while back, in a completely different context: "have you considered that discourse is traumatic to me & that laughing at our endless, vicious debates over specialized neologisms nobody outside of our hell-pit of a community cares about is my way of processing it?"i'm tired of seeing friendships and bonds ripped apart. i'm tired of people being hurt."i'm tired of people wanting to score points against each other.'21/???
(DIR) Post #9oD3XcEJxHB3DW3aG8 by wohali@octodon.social
2019-10-23T05:26:01Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
I don't doubt that revolutions will be grounded in revolt, frustration, and anger. That's how we fuel change when there's no other way.OSS *itself* isn't a revolution any more (whether or not it plays a part in other revolutions), and that rhetoric no longer can be used as a way to run cover for abusive behaviour.Not for me, anyway. Not that it ever should have.The openness of the code is, to me, the *least* significant part of the puzzle now.Fix the rest.22/22
(DIR) Post #9oD3XcurP7ClLRxYZ6 by icedquinn@niu.moe
2019-10-23T07:08:23Z
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@wohali A lot of the good with OSS work started to die when people turned on the FSF around the time GPL3/AGPL came out to combat Tivoization. For some reason people turned to BSD instead, further divorcing the projects from the FSF-derived notion of a public work that was protected to remain a public work.We're now in some twilight zone where we're supposed to work for free on infrastructure that can be co-opted by people who definitely don't work for free, and use the profits to cause even more harm.I dealt with doing infrastructure work for one of those open source projects that swapped to community/enterprise shenanigans for their last minute launch. Pretty much quit on the spot, since I was not interested in being used to fatten up someone else's pockets.So I can definitely see why there's a lot of strain on FOSS in general.
(DIR) Post #9oD4Rmzt6sAapN5jpA by icedquinn@niu.moe
2019-10-23T07:18:37Z
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@wohali Most [F]OSS projects also tend to be started and run by single persons.Leadership training is typically available exclusively to the ivy league, or people privileged enough to become military officers. It's incredibly difficult to learn in the wild; if you don't "have it" its hard to get followers to practice with, and so on.It's very difficult (even with access to the correct books, not "management" training) to do the Leader thing. There's a lot of rules to it that tend to be antithetical to the reasons someone goes in to tech work (i.e. avoidance of having to deal with people, political correctness, people's feelings, and such, since tech is all about the raw maths and code of a problem.)In a world where someone spends 8 hours sleeping, and 8 hours working for as little as the company can get away with, it's difficult to cram in studying formal etiquette (so nobody gets offended at anything), finding and absorbing case studies (so you know the right calls for each potential conflict) on top of also doing the job of all the design and implementation of a project.
(DIR) Post #9oE0foDv8qus1i2qLA by mike@firebreathingduck.io
2019-10-23T18:08:05Z
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@wohali I've come to believe that open source / free software can't win in a capitalist society. The contributors are almost all working in their spare time on top of a 40+ hour job that takes most of their energy and has to take priority. That's against massive profit engines built on proprietary code.It's an uphill fight. An up-cliff fight, really.I believe software freedom won't be widespread until and unless we have a successful anti-capitalist revolution.
(DIR) Post #9oE0fotOee5q6LRxzM by 361.xj9@social.sunshinegardens.org
2019-10-23T18:11:01.272808Z
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@mike @wohali define win?
(DIR) Post #9oE16wsV4Yn6gdy06y by mike@firebreathingduck.io
2019-10-23T18:14:25Z
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@xj9 @wohali Get a majority of users voluntarily on completely free software platforms.
(DIR) Post #9oE16xK9PkuQ4Ou5D6 by 361.xj9@social.sunshinegardens.org
2019-10-23T18:15:57.837452Z
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@mike @wohali oh ok the marketshare victory condition
(DIR) Post #9oE1ciKEiLvGor5SD2 by mike@firebreathingduck.io
2019-10-23T18:16:42Z
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@xj9 @wohali Did you have another one in mind? (That's a question asked out of curiosity, not a challenge issued against any other standard.)
(DIR) Post #9oE1cienTuMxqchsG0 by 361.xj9@social.sunshinegardens.org
2019-10-23T18:21:41.708191Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@mike @wohali there's this idea of reaching a "critical mass" that makes a community self-sustaining and self-perpetuating. what if, instead of pursuing a domination strat, we pursue non-violent separation and independence?
(DIR) Post #9oE5aFGMCH3lv9Lo92 by mike@firebreathingduck.io
2019-10-23T18:24:16Z
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@xj9 @wohali I would love to be wrong, but I don't see that as practical within a capitalist society. Again, this separate and independent society has to accumulate contributors and resources in the shadow of having to hold a day job and often use or even build proprietary software tools in the day job, banking, and so forth.
(DIR) Post #9oE5aFkqMvRjRhc9fE by 361.xj9@social.sunshinegardens.org
2019-10-23T19:06:04.704282Z
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@mike @wohali well there's only one way to find out :yay:
(DIR) Post #9oEzCd3dfh6aCbiYCW by 361.xj9@social.sunshinegardens.org
2019-10-24T05:29:17.251527Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@mike @wohali that's what the critical mass bit is about! if we can build eco-villages that secure our basic needs we can drastically reduce the cost of living. with further research these eco-villages can develop small-scale renewable industry. imports will be needed at first, but as specific resources are identified renewable alternatives can be created. of course, building something like this will require Very Skilled People. especially the prototype builds. we are still working up to this level of project, but our handbook is meant to document all of the steps we take on the way there. long term, we hope the walkaway handbook can serve as a tool of liberation anyone and everyone.obviously, i have no idea if this will work. its a hypothesis that we're testing because it seems like an interesting puzzle to work out.https://walkaway.wiki/1052px-MaslowsHierarchyOfNeeds.…
(DIR) Post #9oFJhxu8DDkOuwUSG0 by SporkyDorky@hackers.town
2019-10-23T05:08:51Z
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@wohaliMore forks!
(DIR) Post #9oFJhyR6Ee7QZBume0 by kaniini@socially.whimsic.al
2019-10-24T09:19:01.820516Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@SporkyDorky @wohali at least in the fediverse, more forks will probably make things worse, not better right now. the security situation in the fediverse needs significant reform before i would be enthusiastic about more forks -- another fork of mastodon, pleroma or gnu social is just another project whose security mitigations i need to keep track of.
(DIR) Post #9oFJoIAJnLcBUf4uuW by kaniini@socially.whimsic.al
2019-10-24T09:20:12.407260Z
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@wohali this is something i learned from working with Dianora back in the day. she really worked hard to make sure everyone contributing to hybrid were confident in what they were doing. this is something i don't see in many projects.
(DIR) Post #9oFK07FIDi876M2jvk by wohali@octodon.social
2019-10-24T09:20:53Z
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@kaniini *squints*you have changed nicknames since then, haven't you?or my memory has really faded...
(DIR) Post #9oFK07dkklhCKDUH3Y by kaniini@socially.whimsic.al
2019-10-24T09:22:19.140762Z
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@wohali oh, this was past your time, when dianora was trying to reboot the project before she just gave up on it and handed it over to michael. i think you had taken over stewardship of the botbay source archive by then.
(DIR) Post #9oFKGKhjwr2RTc59Ie by wohali@octodon.social
2019-10-24T09:23:59Z
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@kaniini ah! ok. sorry we never crossed paths, then. now it makes sense.our collective failure to get any traction on an irc3 protocol at the time burnt most of us out.then @Dianora decided to redouble efforts on ham radio stuff and creative writing, and i think it was best for her :)
(DIR) Post #9oFKGL8KM0J0o4WNk0 by kaniini@socially.whimsic.al
2019-10-24T09:25:16.076049Z
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@wohali in fairness, i did finally succeed in getting some traction with ircv3, and they are doing some pretty neat things.
(DIR) Post #9oFKSxdv0CE5iVJeYC by wohali@octodon.social
2019-10-24T09:26:24Z
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@kaniini sure, but 20 years later ;)sadly, most of what space that covers doesn't personally interest me, so i've largely ignored it.
(DIR) Post #9oFKSy0bdqNGqrvlui by kaniini@socially.whimsic.al
2019-10-24T09:27:32.777131Z
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@wohali same, i see it as too little, too late at this point. we have already lost to slack, discord and the other startups, when it comes to mindshare.so many projects anymore that i come across, they use Slack or Discord for their chats
(DIR) Post #9oFKgTHYgAGVbpId2e by wohali@octodon.social
2019-10-24T09:28:41Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@kaniini and I don't want centralised logging or registration most of the time.you're right, it's over. that's fine, less bots for me to worry about ;)
(DIR) Post #9oFKn4XJ5Asot6oTs8 by kaniini@socially.whimsic.al
2019-10-24T09:31:11.572730Z
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@wohali i basically see what i am doing now as the last stand. if it doesn't work out, i've got sheep to raise.
(DIR) Post #9oFL1y1LaaLL1Yy0LA by lain@pleroma.soykaf.com
2019-10-24T09:33:43.527008Z
6 likes, 2 repeats
@xj9 @mike @wohali even though 'open source' (ha!) apparently doesn't work, i have no problems running a 99% free computing stack on nearly every device i own.
(DIR) Post #9oFLECQjqB2nBofz9c by lain@pleroma.soykaf.com
2019-10-24T09:35:57.585666Z
7 likes, 2 repeats
@kaniini @SporkyDorky @wohali i think people on the fedi are too fork-happy. some are ashamed of their code so they don't even try to bring it to mainline, some think that their changes are 'too different' to be merged without ever talking to the project itself.and my personal favorite: "pleroma does this one little thing in a different way than i want? time to fork because they clearly are all idiots and/or evil."
(DIR) Post #9oFLlk0m0WAqtcWcSW by kaniini@socially.whimsic.al
2019-10-24T09:42:09.130057Z
3 likes, 1 repeats
@lain @xj9 @mike @wohali free software works, but, as they say, "freedom isn't free."i think that the relationship between consumers and maintainers needs to get better in general for this movement to remain sustainable. there's a lot of hostility toward maintainers and in today's world, an eagerness to assume the worst about maintainers views on things, even in the absence of tangible evidence to justify that.
(DIR) Post #9oFLlk1pwZ1awv1T7I by hj@shigusegubu.club
2019-10-24T09:42:08.404047Z
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@lain @kaniini @SporkyDorky @wohali t. pleroma-mfc fork
(DIR) Post #9oFLvUEpVUIus7kNE0 by kaniini@socially.whimsic.al
2019-10-24T09:43:54.980337Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@lain @SporkyDorky @wohali yeah, for sure, at this point, i think it's better for people to try to work with upstreams instead of be fork happy, at least as far as fediverse software goes. we're in a major revision cycle of ActivityPub, and there's a lot of tangible wins to be had, but if people fragment the ecosystem it's going to make things more difficult than they need to be
(DIR) Post #9oFMlvf8my2OzA3n5U by shmibs@tomo.airen-no-jikken.icu
2019-10-24T09:53:21.436494Z
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@mike @wohali a ubi system can solve that from within the framework of capitalism
(DIR) Post #9oFO4WeY67h6sNDNQG by shmibs@tomo.airen-no-jikken.icu
2019-10-24T10:07:55.541616Z
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@wohali largely it feels like a demographic problem that might be solved, in that comp-sci once had a reasonably balanced men:women ratio, but that there was a selection, first incidental (through the appearance of home-videogame-playing, home-computing, and then widespread internet access) and then intentional (corporate hiring practices), for anti-social/autistic men. and with that shift came greater rates of community confrontation/dissolutionand meanwhile software development, and open-source projects in particular, have become only progressively more dependent on interpersonal relationships and "big-picture" organisationand so maybe school programs of some kind which emphasise computing in a social environment might encourage a greater percentage of early adopters of computer-stuff among women and counterbalance things a bit?┐('＿`;)┌
(DIR) Post #9oFPNRv01crneEUr68 by wohali@octodon.social
2019-10-24T10:10:45Z
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@shmibs waiting until the next generation of people come around and do their own orgs means at least 2 generations (X, Millenials) will suffer with this horrible Boomer-derived shit.That feels too long to wait. I might not see it in my lifetime.
(DIR) Post #9oFPNTVY7DhIZsbYhs by ice@socially.whimsic.al
2019-10-24T10:22:02.899210Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@wohaliI kinda wish Foss Devs would act like old school Devs though just make stuff because it's fun and not because I'll have some Brownie points with my peers.@shmibs
(DIR) Post #9oFPa5szFj6151aJo8 by shmibs@tomo.airen-no-jikken.icu
2019-10-24T10:24:50.501671Z
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@ice @wohali mmm, that i think will become more common, though. in that the current economic systems are pretty untenable, and so, once there's more of a coherent support base (assuming it goes that way instead of letting millions just die), that could lead to an upsurge of more stuff-for-stuff's-sake
(DIR) Post #9oFgJDFGKuRYCbXYFE by mike@firebreathingduck.io
2019-10-24T13:31:42Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@kaniini @wohali @lain @xj9 But to repeat for the hundredth time, I think the core problem is that the maintainers lack the resources. I'd love to solve a thousand bugs and add a thousand accessibility features, but I have an unrelated day job that takes most of my time and the overwhelming majority of my energy.
(DIR) Post #9oFgWL7yLCHCPiODtQ by mike@firebreathingduck.io
2019-10-24T13:32:23Z
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@lain @wohali @xj9 That's awesome. What percent of the population has the education, expertise, and resources to do the same? 0.01?
(DIR) Post #9oFgWLcSVqf9wGeZPc by lain@pleroma.soykaf.com
2019-10-24T13:34:29.338362Z
7 likes, 1 repeats
@mike @wohali @xj9 idk, what percentage of the population can repair their car? what percentage of the population can even bake a bread? If 'open source working' is defined as 'every device is running free software and nobody has to do anything for it' then yes, it will never work.
(DIR) Post #9oFh3GCpeztGhpMQKW by mike@firebreathingduck.io
2019-10-24T13:35:07Z
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@shmibs @wohali If the UBI was high enough, agreed. In the US presidential Yang's proposed $1,000/citizen/month is woefully inadequate, especially since he's backed off on universal health care and his website quotes Milton Friedman's proposal to replace other social welfare programs with UBI. That makes his proposal a joke.
(DIR) Post #9oFh3GeU0C0a5aIVQe by wohali@octodon.social
2019-10-24T13:35:55Z
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@mike @shmibs UBI won't do it unless there are meaningful restrictions put on artificial increases in cost of living for basic goods.Otherwise UBI just becomes more corporate welfare.
(DIR) Post #9oFh3H54PLH9Q2jjs0 by shmibs@tomo.airen-no-jikken.icu
2019-10-24T13:40:33.304286Z
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@wohali @mike eh, housing might be a problem, but choice is a decent restriction on that kind of artificial increase, particularly in the case of basic goods
(DIR) Post #9oFh6Mp5VyZg64jgcC by shmibs@tomo.airen-no-jikken.icu
2019-10-24T13:41:10.360684Z
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@mike @wohali not a politics-enthusiast, but i've seen somewhere that the intent there was to increase the amount over time to something more "live-able", and that was just a more-easily-passed initial bid
(DIR) Post #9oFhQciS8PYnBDI7eK by mike@firebreathingduck.io
2019-10-24T13:41:49Z
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@shmibs @wohali But housing is the biggest cost. It doesn't matter if bread prices stay low if my rent goes up $2k.
(DIR) Post #9oFhQd8KaCGCTTOmzA by shmibs@tomo.airen-no-jikken.icu
2019-10-24T13:44:48.855311Z
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@mike @wohali sure, so that would need some secondary action, i guessneeds that regardless, because people are trapped right now
(DIR) Post #9oFiXvcgKz97nedgjA by kuroki@ihatebeinga.live
2019-10-24T13:36:31.715945Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@lain @mike @wohali @xj9 I wish I could bake bread
(DIR) Post #9oFicGv56AhP0cJgFk by kuroki@ihatebeinga.live
2019-10-24T13:41:01.030702Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@lain @mike @wohali @xj9 tho on a more serious note:not everyone in a society has to have all the skills, but free software at least tries to make education about it accessible and inexpensive... the main reason I don't really want a car is that I couldn't really fix it and the guy who sold me it won't even give me a manual that describes how I could fix it
(DIR) Post #9oFl7SnfB3zOjyqcYi by epi@ihatebeinga.live
2019-10-24T14:25:50.067745Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@kuroki @lain @mike @wohali @xj9 i wish i could get baked OwO
(DIR) Post #9oFnWqflkwzdvcO68u by petit@social.ufeff.club
2019-10-24T14:53:11.292557Z
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@kaniini @lain @SporkyDorky @wohali The ideal situation is support for third party modules. Then, people can create code that's available for others without needing to convince upstream to approve it.
(DIR) Post #9oFo6I5boU575yNFwG by lain@pleroma.soykaf.com
2019-10-24T14:59:32.367560Z
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@petit @kaniini @SporkyDorky @wohali sadly, this often leads to code rotting away and being unmaintained.
(DIR) Post #9oFoBwLfYgtNP8a1Z2 by 1iceloops123@shitposter.club
2019-10-24T15:00:37.220262Z
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@lain @petit @SporkyDorky @kaniini @wohali and that means le normie can become hacker man
(DIR) Post #9oFoP3ipSHUK2OfV2G by 361.xj9@social.sunshinegardens.org
2019-10-24T15:02:59.444543Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@epi @kuroki @lain @mike @wohali all you have to do is grow some open source dope and you can get high as fuck whenever you want
(DIR) Post #9oFoTn2otCZflFH6NE by kuroki@ihatebeinga.live
2019-10-24T15:03:31.329347Z
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@xj9 @epi @lain @mike @wohali I am trying
(DIR) Post #9oFoTnUTEOgz90DBTM by 361.xj9@social.sunshinegardens.org
2019-10-24T15:03:50.578291Z
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@kuroki @epi @lain @mike @wohali gl :weed:
(DIR) Post #9oFq6GvSL8RPOVkBpw by seasharp@crowsnest.libre.audio
2019-10-24T15:22:00.120335Z
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@kuroki @lain @mike @wohali @xj9 Its a shame this is the state of autos these days, cause it used to be the exact opposite. The market loves the easy revenue so once you're past your iPhone stage of new-product-category-ness and you've got sales volume focus seems to almost inevitably turn to obfuscating properties of the product in order to build a service around managing said properties.John Deere, Apple (especially post-2010 in the documentation dark ages), GM/Daimler-Chrysler, Keurig and the k-cup controversy, even parts of a home network are starting to get blobified in the name of 'simplicity' or some shit
(DIR) Post #9oG1lrZg5IpWQXalw8 by kragen@nerdculture.de
2019-10-24T17:32:44Z
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@mike @wohali Wikipedia beat Britannica and Encarta; StackOverflow (though running on proprietary software) beat Yahoo Answers and Experts-Exchange. Sometimes you can win an up-cliff fight if you're in a helicopter.
(DIR) Post #9oG1sjhBmBxa1CNmmu by sir@cmpwn.com
2019-10-24T17:32:47Z
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@wohali this thread is very poignant
(DIR) Post #9oG26wgyFiGCNe3YGG by kragen@nerdculture.de
2019-10-24T17:36:31Z
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@mike @lain @wohali @xj9 maybe the fundamental thing we need for a free-software world is not a software base but an educational society, like the Pythagoreans, the Freemasons, the Puritans, the Quakers, the Buddhist bhikkhus, or the Jesuits. A community of people that share a vision of making the world better, a body of knowledge they pass down and build, and enough of a governance structure to keep the worst abuses in check. LUGs and FLISOL, exponentiated.
(DIR) Post #9oG2QwBHrVhcaSll20 by kragen@nerdculture.de
2019-10-24T17:40:08Z
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@mike @lain @wohali @xj9 we've already come really far despite the behind-closed-doors psychological abuse by people like Richard Stallman and Noah Slater, not to mention the occasional vicious incident in public. What could we achieve if we had a realistic vision of the social structure of the knowledge-creating community we want to become?
(DIR) Post #9oG2VfeqiqRemzr0Hw by kragen@nerdculture.de
2019-10-24T17:41:02Z
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@wohali bravo, bravo!
(DIR) Post #9oG4f4oOllZDJkvuyW by 361.xj9@social.sunshinegardens.org
2019-10-24T18:05:09.832035Z
3 likes, 1 repeats
@kragen @wohali @lain @mike this is the kind of thing I'm envisioning for the Walkaway Project x Sunshine Gardens. we can't fix the whole world at once, but we *can* create something that gives hacker types time and resources to make something that other people can build off of. there are lots of ways to fund a place like this too. obviously the scale is going to be limited at first, but you have to start with something. t. walkaway u maybe?
(DIR) Post #9oGIg8jT4rMf7n1nzE by wohali@octodon.social
2019-10-24T20:42:07Z
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@kragen @mike I'm sorry, but the ends don't justify the means.Ask most Wikimedians how they feel about Jimmy, how FSFers felt about RMS, or the current brouhaha that's got SO embroiled in controversy.This is the "missing stair" anti-pattern and it keeps happening, over and over. I hate being part of the gossip network that knows about these things whose only recourse is to console in private as best I know how, and warn others away before they get hurt, too.
(DIR) Post #9oGaiKebWSxTqvwqXo by kaniini@socially.whimsic.al
2019-10-25T00:04:19.630631Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@petit @SporkyDorky @lain @wohali we support third party modules in pleroma :)but we should make it more clear how to make use of it I think
(DIR) Post #9oGkotXLjyMZJsK53I by m4iler@infosec.exchange
2019-10-25T01:57:32Z
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@wohali It is a dire situation, but to me (not really enough experience to give an extremely well-versed opinion), it seems that OSS exploitation by corporate entities is only the old "copied from stackoverflow" only on a larger scale.Yes, people develop FOSS, but by being FOSS, you put it in the public domain immediately. This helps progress, but it is also not something that should be seen as a profit source, BECAUSE it is open to anyone.
(DIR) Post #9oGl5qDVKzyTwg7ZXE by m4iler@infosec.exchange
2019-10-25T02:00:36Z
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@wohali To draw a terrible comparison, FOSS is a thot. She'll go with anyone, doesn't care who is using her and doesn't make any money.The software that makes money is like a high-class escort. Not everyone can look at her, but because she is monetarily motivated, she tries to be the best she can. This software takes time to develop and strives for perfection.
(DIR) Post #9oHZyxEZwc23LQ659k by succfemboi@iscute.moe
2019-10-25T11:30:48.603648Z
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@kaniiniDo you mean mrf with it or something else?@petit @SporkyDorky @lain @wohali
(DIR) Post #9oHa88UtRCAisn6e5A by kaniini@socially.whimsic.al
2019-10-25T11:32:28.149582Z
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@succfemboi @SporkyDorky @lain @petit @wohali MRF is one example, but there are other ways to extend Pleroma. somebody made an entire bot framework for it.
(DIR) Post #9oHpwZXqeE6iYqzpXU by dazinism@social.coop
2019-10-25T12:21:00Z
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@xj9A bit tangential, but made me think of unmonasery.org a temporary intentional community practicing open source development.Much of the doc links from the site are dead but theres a couple of docs which I think share some interesting findings from their project. Stakeholders Handbookhttps://docs.google.com/document/d/1wVSJVR9nbLEszx0BdYQDeofQdpHkc9rHmcVmMT_T8hMBook of Mistakes (book of greater and lessor omissions)https://archive.org/details/bookofmistakes @kragen @wohali @lain @mike
(DIR) Post #9oI7ZygenoNb3JUaWG by kragen@nerdculture.de
2019-10-25T17:47:12Z
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@wohali @mike oh, I agree — being dramatically more productive than the capitalist mode of production doesn't mean we've solved its other problems, or even that we haven't added new problems of our own. I *suspect* the "missing stair" problem is less bad in commons-based peer production than in capitalist command-and-control production (where your boss can just fire you if you won't put out) but it clearly exists in the free world.
(DIR) Post #9oIAdLt1ItZ7jeZkLg by mike@firebreathingduck.io
2019-10-25T18:21:25Z
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@kragen @wohali I want to phrase this carefully - I don't want to downplay the problems, the negative impact, and the unacceptable immorality of abusive behavior and enabling abusive behavior. Those are horrific things that hurt the free software movement and more importantly hurt a lot of people.But even if that problem was completely solved, free software will still lose in the capitalist market.
(DIR) Post #9oICLsOvsN4dH2ITxI by kragen@nerdculture.de
2019-10-25T18:40:39Z
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@mike @wohali certainly that has happened sometimes, just as the medieval bourgeoisie had great difficulty surviving in the medieval feudal societies that surrounded them; and certainly they are orthogonal issues.
(DIR) Post #9plupmifg3V1MFWY2C by Dianora@octodon.social
2019-12-09T00:26:25Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@wohali @kaniini I have never been smurfed on hamradio.