Post 9nl2QcJetZd4couZkm by LiseMeitner@spinster.xyz
(DIR) More posts by LiseMeitner@spinster.xyz
(DIR) Post #9nkcnTxLXtMAY8iY8e by mk@spinster.xyz
2019-10-09T13:56:53Z
0 likes, 8 repeats
I have a question on the SCOTUS case. The WOLF briefing states:"If Aimee Stephens wished to challenge the legalityof sex-specific dress codes under Title VII, he couldhave done so. Instead, he is attempting to redefine theterm “sex” to mean “gender identity” under federal civilrights law, and potentially throughout the U.S. Code,and for every person in the U.S."I'm trying to find where (in what specific document) this is happening so I can appropriately reference it.Is anyone familiar enough with the inner workings of this case to help me out?
(DIR) Post #9nke4xzXEDEqZzdsjA by MadCityRadiXX@spinster.xyz
2019-10-09T14:11:15Z
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@mk Here are some links - one that @jem199 provided yesterday to a transcript of the oral arguments yesterday - https://www.supremecourt.gov/oral_arguments/argument_transcripts/2019/18-107_c18e.pdf - and one to the SC website where there will be publicly available audio recording on Friday - https://www.supremecourt.gov/oral_arguments/oral_arguments.aspx I haven't had a chance to read through it yet - hopefully will later today.
(DIR) Post #9nke5Ry9ltxfYPECkC by uteri_my_duderi@spinster.xyz
2019-10-09T14:11:20Z
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@mk Cathy Brennan is talking a lot about the case. She disagrees with WOLFs interpretation of what is going on but her twitter might be useful for an understanding what's going, at least as an opposing view from a radfem side.
(DIR) Post #9nkfcVruOZ4j9pdRIW by mk@spinster.xyz
2019-10-09T14:28:31Z
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Thank you! This transcript is exactly what I was looking for. @MadCityRadiXX @jem199
(DIR) Post #9nkg7T9eXEVNiZhCsa by AthenasWrench@spinster.xyz
2019-10-09T14:34:07Z
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@uteri_my_duderi @mk - Cathy has a video up on her website specifically about this explaining her position. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGM4KW7DWVo
(DIR) Post #9nkgLRf8saFv915aC0 by mk@spinster.xyz
2019-10-09T14:36:38Z
0 likes, 6 repeats
"First, on the question ofjudicial interpretation, we are not asking youto apply any meaning of sex other than the onethat everybody agrees on as of 1964, which issex assigned at birth or, as -- as they put it,biological sex. We're not asking you to rewriteit." -Stephens' lawyerI honestly still can not tell where WOLF got their interpretation from... all throughout this transcript Cole is incredibly clear on this point, and that Aimee is a male and therefore was discriminated against based on the sex-stereotype that he would present as a man.@MadCityRadiXX @jem199
(DIR) Post #9nkgNTj4BAGI7ftUno by mk@spinster.xyz
2019-10-09T14:37:01Z
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Thank you!! @AthenasWrench @uteri_my_duderi
(DIR) Post #9nkhHygiFYngMmjZyK by Eah@spinster.xyz
2019-10-09T14:47:12Z
0 likes, 3 repeats
@mk I'm not deeply familiar with it but I had heard something contrary to this, that Aimee had changed their strategy and now were arguing specifically that it was against the statute for a man to not be allowed to wear attire that women are allowed to wear. But since they are using a different strategy, WOLF's briefing might not have been updated to reflect that.
(DIR) Post #9nkixBoQSU8ytkYatk by MadCityRadiXX@spinster.xyz
2019-10-09T15:05:49Z
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@mk @jem199 I don't quite, either, but that quote is misleading, IMO. The pro Stephens arguments are slippery. Not far into reading it, but appears they are using the concept of "sex assigned at birth" and trying to say this is a case of sex discrimination (covered in Title VII) b/c the employer is trying to force Stephens to conform to his "sex assigned at birth" - implying, but so far not saying, that Stephens changed sex somehow. So to their mind, technically not rewriting the law re bio sex, but effectively they are - b/c who can change sex???Also, to be fair to WoLF, that statement was written ahead of the oral arguments and probably reflects what they think the implications of the case are. They do not, so far as I know (not a lawyer here, just playing one on Spinster - LOL!), know ahead of time the specifics of the arguments that will be presented."So if the objection of the transgenderindividual is that I want to use a bathroomconsistent with my gender identity, rather thanbiological sex, do you analyze it as -- theaffecting based on the transgender status or doyou analyze it on the basis of biological sex?MR. COLE: So the -- the -- I thinkour argument rests on biological sex or what wethink is more accurately referred to as sexassigned at birth."
(DIR) Post #9nkj4VS7po43q3cCAa by Chris@spinster.xyz
2019-10-09T15:07:12Z
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@mk @MadCityRadiXX @jem199 Why did WoLF think it was a good idea to hook up with the right wing/right wing women.I completely understand their giving up on the Left (the left supports this and shuts out debate) - but why couldn't they do things on their own, or try to educate the wider pubic firstWas it impossible to go independently?
(DIR) Post #9nkjBXZIMoraQYK4sS by MadCityRadiXX@spinster.xyz
2019-10-09T15:08:28Z
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@mk @jem199 I don't quite, either, but that quote is misleading, IMO. The pro Stephens arguments are slippery. Not far into reading it, but appears they are using the concept of "sex assigned at birth" and trying to say this is a case of sex discrimination (covered in Title VII) b/c the employer is trying to force Stephens to conform to his "sex assigned at birth" - implying, but so far not saying, that Stephens changed sex somehow. So to their mind, technically not rewriting the law re bio sex, but effectively they are - b/c who can change sex???Also, to be fair to WoLF, that statement was written ahead of the oral arguments and probably reflects what they think the implications of the case are. They do not, so far as I know (not a lawyer here, just playing one on Spinster - LOL!), know ahead of time the specifics of the arguments that will be presented.Edited to add: I just re-read your post and sounds like you have read all the way through it, so maybe I'm wrong. I'll refrain from commenting further until I read the whole thing!"So if the objection of the transgenderindividual is that I want to use a bathroomconsistent with my gender identity, rather thanbiological sex, do you analyze it as -- theaffecting based on the transgender status or doyou analyze it on the basis of biological sex?MR. COLE: So the -- the -- I thinkour argument rests on biological sex or what wethink is more accurately referred to as sexassigned at birth."
(DIR) Post #9nkjd1L1n7wCZkkkDI by MadCityRadiXX@spinster.xyz
2019-10-09T15:13:25Z
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@Chris @mk @jem199 You would have to ask them - I'm not part of WoLF, altho I have met a couple of their members. I do know they want to get something done and there is no money or platforms on our side. They feel it's not wrong to partner on select issues, and in their recent blog post, point out other Leftist groups who also have partnered with right wing politicians and groups to achieve specific goals, so why are they held to a different standard?I noticed in most of the news coverage, the ONLY opposition shown are the Christians with their signs! So far, only Breitbart, a right wing outlet, has put up a video of the whole of Natasha Chart's speech.
(DIR) Post #9nkjmPQTbQ6ttBmJVY by Chris@spinster.xyz
2019-10-09T15:15:07Z
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@MadCityRadiXX @mk @jem199 Did Natasha Chart have a speech about this?Yes, the media LIE all the time that is only Christians that oppose this.
(DIR) Post #9nkjyGBfmHzci7VMye by MadCityRadiXX@spinster.xyz
2019-10-09T15:17:15Z
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@Chris @mk @jem199 Here is a good podcast of Kathleen Stock and Natasha Chart discussing working with the Right on Feminist Current. There's another good one on Women's Liberation Radio News with Anne Menasche and Kara Dansky. I'll see whether I can find it. Truthfully, I go back and forth on this all the time! But I teared up yesterday at their speeches and bravery and send them a donation.
(DIR) Post #9nkk1uIZ6Nn7ywT464 by MadCityRadiXX@spinster.xyz
2019-10-09T15:17:55Z
0 likes, 3 repeats
@Chris @mk @jem199 Here is a good podcast of Kathleen Stock and Natasha Chart discussing working with the Right on Feminist Current https://www.feministcurrent.com/2019/02/21/podcast-kathleen-stock-and-natasha-chart-discuss-the-issue-of-feminists-allying-with-the-right/There's another good one on Women's Liberation Radio News with Anne Menasche and Kara Dansky. I'll see whether I can find it. Truthfully, I go back and forth on this all the time! But I teared up yesterday at their speeches and bravery and send them a donation.
(DIR) Post #9nkkDT5E749P3Ck2Lo by MadCityRadiXX@spinster.xyz
2019-10-09T15:20:01Z
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@Chris @mk @jem199 Here's the WLRN one with Menasche and Dansky. I think everyone should listen to these two and we should have a discussion. I have personally met Dansky and like her very much. But Menasche made the stronger arguments in this one. See what you think.https://feministstruggle.org/2019/04/06/wlrn-debate-between-wolf-and-fist/
(DIR) Post #9nkkT7SqGBOidLFapU by MadCityRadiXX@spinster.xyz
2019-10-09T15:22:50Z
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@Chris @mk @jem199 Here is the Breitbart video and transcript of Chart's speech yesterday:https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/10/08/watch-feminist-speaks-against-transgender-ideology-i-will-not-submit/If people don't want to give Breitbart clicks, the video is also on Posie Parker's and WLRN's Facebook pages - tho the sound quality is better on Breitbart and FB doesn't have the transcript.
(DIR) Post #9nkkeDxoR2y7yd22ca by Chris@spinster.xyz
2019-10-09T15:24:50Z
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@MadCityRadiXX @mk @jem199 I am watching her speech nowI will listen to the Menasche and Kara Dansky one - either you can link it or I can find itThe one with NC, MM and Kathleen Stock was so real and good - it was a very real conversation about what is happening and how it is so difficult
(DIR) Post #9nkl3XW6sFfxrM95Pc by AnneBevan@spinster.xyz
2019-10-09T15:29:25Z
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@MadCityRadiXX @Chris @mk @jem199 It is the purest sexism. ACLU is a men's rights organisation. Men (including lefty men) are allowed/expected to go out into the world and form alliances in the struggle. Women are traditionally the custodians of values in the culture. We must maintain purity.
(DIR) Post #9nklOFnBy6GoyA0rIm by Chris@spinster.xyz
2019-10-09T15:33:10Z
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@AnneBevan @MadCityRadiXX @mk @jem199 It's true - they talk about women only being allowed to be in one party or else - and yet the men can have/run all the parties!The only problem with the right is that are are real women haters there too. Not just some of the fundies but the incels who might even hate women more
(DIR) Post #9nklfVoFfctRZIjoVU by MadCityRadiXX@spinster.xyz
2019-10-09T15:36:17Z
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@AnneBevan @Chris @mk @jem199 Yep, and I really have to get to work, but I've been wanting to write a post exploring these ideas further, using the example of Bold Nebraska uniting indigenous people, environmentalists, ranchers, and others of many political persuasions to oppose the Keystone pipeline.
(DIR) Post #9nklizvU9b1TqHmdlo by Chris@spinster.xyz
2019-10-09T15:36:55Z
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@MadCityRadiXX @AnneBevan @mk @jem199 ok see you later
(DIR) Post #9nknhLhcQ1Ooi3dgMC by XeeYu@spinster.xyz
2019-10-09T15:59:02Z
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I don't read the daily signal but trying to find info about the case yday I stumbled upon this. https://www.dailysignal.com/2019/10/07/what-you-need-to-know-about-the-transgender-case-at-the-supreme-court/ This part was interesting: @mk @MadCityRadiXX @jem199
(DIR) Post #9nkxWrOnEOUtN1TFa4 by CharlytheWorm@spinster.xyz
2019-10-09T17:48:27Z
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So good! "Harrassing lesbians is not a good way to be inclusive"......tell us, Natasha! @MadCityRadiXX @Chris @mk @jem199
(DIR) Post #9nky7IvsL6DbBnK4H2 by CharlytheWorm@spinster.xyz
2019-10-09T17:54:46Z
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@MadCityRadiXX @Chris @mk @jem199 "I will not be forced to lie. I will not submit." - Natasha ChartThat makes me cry. Them's fighting words. I will not submit, either!
(DIR) Post #9nkyFnnxRO1FFqfgbA by LiseMeitner@spinster.xyz
2019-10-09T17:57:18Z
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That made me cry@MadCityRadiXX @Chris @mk @jem199
(DIR) Post #9nkyJeU22V5dVGBeDo by Chris@spinster.xyz
2019-10-09T17:57:59Z
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@LiseMeitner @MadCityRadiXX @mk @jem199 It was a great speech!
(DIR) Post #9nkyU7iKDR9D3Wrj6W by LiseMeitner@spinster.xyz
2019-10-09T17:59:53Z
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It really was. Especially when she got to what they're doing to boys and girls@Chris @MadCityRadiXX @mk @jem199
(DIR) Post #9nkyZ2nVvDWXFwdg2K by Chris@spinster.xyz
2019-10-09T18:00:47Z
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@LiseMeitner @MadCityRadiXX @mk @jem199 Yeah that's a big crime they are all ignoring.
(DIR) Post #9nkzEgwJa0k7cwcAE5 by Gwen@spinster.xyz
2019-10-09T18:08:19Z
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I think that lawyer was being disingenuous. On page 11 Sotomayor says that if they rule in favour of that case, the bathroom question becomes inevitable. I think he's saying it would lead directly to other cases regarding transgender rights (I am not a lawyer, just my take). @mk @MadCityRadiXX @jem199
(DIR) Post #9nkzV8hM8oqMLvScWO by CharlytheWorm@spinster.xyz
2019-10-09T18:01:20Z
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Me, too, poo. That bittersweet mixture of pride, terrible knowlege of our history and what's at stake, combined with a fierce and persistent will for FREEDOM. Liberation. Emancipation. @LiseMeitner @MadCityRadiXX @Chris @mk @jem199
(DIR) Post #9nkzV9ObY1REW3h9vs by LangCleg@spinster.xyz
2019-10-09T18:11:15Z
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Here in the UK there were tentative alliances in anti-pornography and anti-paedophilia campaigns between second wave feminists and the fundie Christian campaigner Mary Whitehouse back in the 1970s. All welcome in specific campaigning that benefits women and child protection in my book. We can go back to full-throated opposition on other issues.Can't bear tribalism. Leads to bad outcomes.https://www.newstatesman.com/culture/culture/2012/11/mary-whitehouse-useful-counterweight@CharlytheWorm @LiseMeitner @MadCityRadiXX @Chris @mk @jem199
(DIR) Post #9nkzzPEtCuLyLBZtFA by LiseMeitner@spinster.xyz
2019-10-09T18:16:46Z
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Single issue coalitions have the most effective and lasting outcomes. Associating with groups of people with whom we usually disagree also gives us credibility to expand our influence in other areas like racism. @LangCleg @CharlytheWorm @MadCityRadiXX @Chris @mk @jem199
(DIR) Post #9nl06eis2Q7iOC3foO by LangCleg@spinster.xyz
2019-10-09T18:18:04Z
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Exactly. And something usually done better in the US than the UK. LiseMeitner @CharlytheWorm @MadCityRadiXX @Chris @mk @jem199
(DIR) Post #9nl09iZu9zqXDPKCDQ by Chris@spinster.xyz
2019-10-09T18:02:55Z
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@CharlytheWorm @LiseMeitner @MadCityRadiXX @mk @jem199 Yes - all in one speech and with people all around screaming and distracted and a media that does not care
(DIR) Post #9nl09j1CWVgGa45zlI by MadCityRadiXX@spinster.xyz
2019-10-09T18:04:48Z
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@Chris @CharlytheWorm @LiseMeitner @mk @jem199 If you really want to be horrified, watch the whole livestream on Posie's Facebook and see them screaming at mothers of trans kids and shouting "go home, homophobe" to Linda Bellos. 😡 😢
(DIR) Post #9nl09jTunkeK17WvWC by CharlytheWorm@spinster.xyz
2019-10-09T18:07:10Z
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Dear, dear Linda Bellos. All 5'3" of her, but what an indomitable spirit. I could watch her and Anne R and oh my....so many great radfems to admire. I was feeling the emotion in Natasha's voice and if I'd been in her shoes I think my throat would've constricted and I'd choke....she was eloquent, impassioned...I don't think I could stand to watch more of the violent jeering crowds. @MadCityRadiXX @Chris @LiseMeitner @mk @jem199
(DIR) Post #9nl0M3SEMvG1R8cMxk by CharlytheWorm@spinster.xyz
2019-10-09T18:19:47Z
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I've mentioned elsewhere that my enviro advocacy and stewardship work included associating with many churches. There are many good people in Christian churches who care about stewarding our planet and are not Rapture Freaks. Many! I never spoke to them about abortion and we worked alongside....I don't fear working with inter-faith efforts, either.@LiseMeitner @LangCleg @MadCityRadiXX @Chris @mk @jem199
(DIR) Post #9nl0T5YgwZUNzQzgZ6 by LiseMeitner@spinster.xyz
2019-10-09T18:20:05Z
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I just sent it to my 19yo daughter who feels alone and silenced by her own peers. @CharlytheWorm @MadCityRadiXX @Chris @mk @jem199
(DIR) Post #9nl0T6WxKVh90LBoUy by CharlytheWorm@spinster.xyz
2019-10-09T18:21:45Z
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Yes, it's brutal. My 25 yr old told me, "Mom, do you know what they'll call you? I don't want to talk about it....I almost lost several friends by saying things I heard you say....." But, also, she's acknowleged that a lot of young lesbians are SEEING the trans-bigotry.....so, aware. @LiseMeitner @MadCityRadiXX @Chris @mk @jem199
(DIR) Post #9nl0XxVcIcTMTLsUhU by MadCityRadiXX@spinster.xyz
2019-10-09T18:19:16Z
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@LiseMeitner @LangCleg @CharlytheWorm @Chris @mk @jem199 I remember hearing an interview with a wealthy Texas landowner on public radio during the Keystone pipeline protests. She said initially she was opposed b/c she didn't want the pipeline running through her land and despoiling it - a narrow private property perspective. But working with environmentalists she came to understand the bigger picture...
(DIR) Post #9nl1AfrDrRnF1MRda4 by MadCityRadiXX@spinster.xyz
2019-10-09T18:16:55Z
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@CharlytheWorm @Chris @LiseMeitner @mk @jem199 <<<I was feeling the emotion in Natasha's voice and if I'd been in her shoes I think my throat would've constricted and I'd choke....she was eloquent, impassioned...>>> She seemed like she might have been choking up. I thought the hug she got from the (conservative) Concerned Women of America woman afterwards was genuine...
(DIR) Post #9nl2KDkXJuEqhDQw1w by kathleenbee@spinster.xyz
2019-10-09T18:42:55Z
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@Chris @MadCityRadiXX @mk @jem199 Absolutely. I've had various people just react in a totally nonplussed way when I am critical of trans ideology and trans activism, it just does not compute for them because I am not a conservative. They look uncomfortable like I am a talking dog or something that just can't exist.
(DIR) Post #9nl2QaM4BeMoXi1TEG by MadCityRadiXX@spinster.xyz
2019-10-09T18:22:29Z
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@CharlytheWorm @LiseMeitner @Chris @mk @jem199 Heartbreaking...
(DIR) Post #9nl2Qai2rvwpdsJ1UG by CharlytheWorm@spinster.xyz
2019-10-09T18:23:37Z
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@MadCityRadiXX @LiseMeitner @Chris @mk @jem199 Motherhood is a l-o-n-g game. Not going to make a battle field over the trans mole hill with my sweet daughter who can't see the water in which she swims...yet.
(DIR) Post #9nl2QbEIvzkhFvOmlk by MadCityRadiXX@spinster.xyz
2019-10-09T18:25:29Z
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@CharlytheWorm @LiseMeitner @Chris @mk @jem199 Preach! It is a long game.
(DIR) Post #9nl2QbfxHBs0dgKrrs by CharlytheWorm@spinster.xyz
2019-10-09T18:27:08Z
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😉 @MadCityRadiXX @LiseMeitner @Chris @mk @jem199
(DIR) Post #9nl2Qc1E06srheHr1M by LiseMeitner@spinster.xyz
2019-10-09T18:38:49Z
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my daughter doesn't feel able to speak out just yet, at least she's aware. I do sometimes wonder if she'd have been better off not knowing, though. she worked to overcome painful shyness, and risking being shunned by her entire peer group in college is too much for her right now. It's sad she just found her voice only to get shut down @CharlytheWorm @MadCityRadiXX @Chris @mk @jem199
(DIR) Post #9nl2QcJetZd4couZkm by LiseMeitner@spinster.xyz
2019-10-09T18:39:48Z
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She tells me should would have realized sooner or later on her own that gender crap is bullshit but idk @CharlytheWorm @MadCityRadiXX @Chris @mk @jem199
(DIR) Post #9nl2S7ojGCk2c7ACau by Chris@spinster.xyz
2019-10-09T18:44:21Z
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@kathleenbee @MadCityRadiXX @mk @jem199 They probably don't get it - the issue is so huge and involves so much.Plus most people do not understand if it was not something that was not on TV news.
(DIR) Post #9nl2iix8xTt0QC0x4S by AnneBevan@spinster.xyz
2019-10-09T18:47:21Z
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@kathleenbee @Chris @MadCityRadiXX @mk @jem199 Thought bubble: "You seemed such a nice person!"
(DIR) Post #9nl2zYsdf4bq6Xw5zc by kathleenbee@spinster.xyz
2019-10-09T18:50:23Z
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@MadCityRadiXX @Chris @mk @jem199 She is fantastic. So clear, so impassioned, so informative. Cheering for her.
(DIR) Post #9nl8DpYEyXKddM1ByK by Chris@spinster.xyz
2019-10-09T18:40:47Z
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@LiseMeitner @CharlytheWorm @MadCityRadiXX @mk @jem199 I guess it is always better to be smart/know the truth. A lot of young people are wasting their energy and time with a lot of lies.
(DIR) Post #9nl8DpxPSxSstPnICe by MadCityRadiXX@spinster.xyz
2019-10-09T18:49:32Z
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@Chris @LiseMeitner @CharlytheWorm @mk @jem199 Esp in the case of girls, I don't want to see them get hurt. I know a young lesbian my granddaughter's age who was gaslit into sex with a "lesbian with a penis" and was traumatized by the experience. Probably more by the psychological aspect than the physical. RE my granddaughter, I just try to pose questions and discuss. Let her come to her own conclusions. As someone said above, they do figure it out. Just helping and supporting them do that is the job, I think
(DIR) Post #9nl8DqD0WxwRfn5kW0 by Chris@spinster.xyz
2019-10-09T18:53:03Z
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@MadCityRadiXX @LiseMeitner @CharlytheWorm @mk @jem199 I spoke to a young, lesbian, university-educated couple who I gently tried to explain the issue to - they were completely unaware of the concerns. They could not see that transing kids was bad and they did not even understand the men in women's sport teams issue. Thoroughly brainwashed! They got angry, too.
(DIR) Post #9nlcLLej0UX9r9YICm by Chris@spinster.xyz
2019-10-10T00:40:29Z
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@CharlytheWorm @LiseMeitner @LangCleg @MadCityRadiXX @mk @jem199 Ok, I listened to this as was suggested (I think by MadCityRadXX ?) and I do agree more with Ann Menasche. It is about strategy. From 37:50 to 1:22https://soundcloud.com/wlrn-media/edition-36-the-left-the-right-and-feminist-strategy
(DIR) Post #9nlcLM3BXY6F50zpKa by MadCityRadiXX@spinster.xyz
2019-10-10T00:53:44Z
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@Chris @CharlytheWorm @LiseMeitner @LangCleg @mk @jem199 But in the Kathleen Stock/Natasha Chart one I agreed with Chart! I'm so wishy-washy... Mostly I lean toward targeted, careful, limited alliances...
(DIR) Post #9nlcLMQE9sX0ETmEFM by Chris@spinster.xyz
2019-10-10T00:56:09Z
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@MadCityRadiXX @CharlytheWorm @LiseMeitner @LangCleg @mk @jem199 I know - I agreed with Natasha in the Stock one, too (though I agree with most of what Stock said) when Natasha made her points I agreed, too. I think the difference is that the US Conservatives are more right wing and more tied to fundamentalism than the Conservatives in the UK.
(DIR) Post #9nlcLMlUsnXrIRjDOq by Chris@spinster.xyz
2019-10-10T00:59:31Z
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@MadCityRadiXX @CharlytheWorm @LiseMeitner @LangCleg @mk @jem199 I thought about it a lot and I think the alliances "targeted" or whatever does not work. Both political "sides" are against women. It just ruins the reputation of radfems to do anything with the right and it is giving up before really starting. Most people would agree with us...IF THEY HEARD IT. It has to be done independently. This is actually a time when people are turned off by all parties/politics anyway. Why cling to discredited orgs?
(DIR) Post #9nlcLN020lAg1WWp3Q by CharlytheWorm@spinster.xyz
2019-10-10T01:09:37Z
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What's wrong with new partnership opportunities. Id say don't stop with Hands Across the Aisle, but, expand. Women On both sides are pissed. @Chris @MadCityRadiXX @LiseMeitner @LangCleg @mk @jem199
(DIR) Post #9nlcLNVE8m7naH7jg8 by MadCityRadiXX@spinster.xyz
2019-10-10T01:18:31Z
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@CharlytheWorm @Chris @LiseMeitner @LangCleg @mk @jem199 I really lean toward this, Charly. As I mentioned this morning, it can work - as in the case of the Keystone pipeline resistance.
(DIR) Post #9nlcQkIeoAvtjintom by MadCityRadiXX@spinster.xyz
2019-10-10T01:00:52Z
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@Chris @CharlytheWorm @LiseMeitner @LangCleg @mk @jem199 Playing the devil's advocate with Menasche, I might ask: Did FIST file any amicus briefs in any of these cases? (WoLF has on at least one other besides the funeral home case.) Has a FIST representative testified before Congress? (Julia Beck did and said she wouldn't have had the opportunity w/o working with conservatives. And she presented an unapologetic radfem case.) Was FIST at the SC yesterday? I mean, where are they? Building a grassroots movement w/o platforms or money takes TIME and I'm not sure how much of that we have...
(DIR) Post #9nlcQlBFXCbMT2LUuW by Chris@spinster.xyz
2019-10-10T01:02:55Z
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@MadCityRadiXX @CharlytheWorm @LiseMeitner @LangCleg @mk @jem199 I know - I totally agree with all of that. And am concerned about time, too.BUT - couldn't they submit briefs independently?(And could they appear be for congress independently?)
(DIR) Post #9nlcQlm7K85mJNawNM by MadCityRadiXX@spinster.xyz
2019-10-10T01:05:35Z
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@Chris @CharlytheWorm @LiseMeitner @LangCleg @mk @jem199 So far as I know, they did submit briefs independently. A group can do that. I guess my point was, what is FIST doing? But testifying before Congress, I think you have to be sponsored. Nobody among the Dems is going to sponsor a gender critical person to testify.
(DIR) Post #9nlcQmWCYmxIcJ9kCu by Chris@spinster.xyz
2019-10-10T01:07:21Z
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@MadCityRadiXX @CharlytheWorm @LiseMeitner @LangCleg @mk @jem199 Yeah, the testifying before congress I understand - but the briefs could be done independently (and I assume it was).I agree though - what is FIST doing? Maybe they are running around in their basements shaking their fists.
(DIR) Post #9nlcQnf6JBfUACKMiW by Chris@spinster.xyz
2019-10-10T01:09:47Z
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@MadCityRadiXX @CharlytheWorm @LiseMeitner @LangCleg @mk @jem199 She and Stock are right that it is very bad "optics" to be associated with right. And the right are more right than ever - there are fundies and incels who want women in their place.
(DIR) Post #9nlcQoMLiOGMKKYu80 by MadCityRadiXX@spinster.xyz
2019-10-10T01:14:47Z
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@Chris @CharlytheWorm @LiseMeitner @LangCleg @mk @jem199 There's so much I could write about all this! A short version... Where I live we had, a few years ago, a massive, unprecedented LONG protest over some legislative issues the Republicans were forcing (and did succeed in forcing) on our state. And the protesters zealously tried to mind "optics." And were misrepresented and lied about anyway by right wing media. And people believed those media sources. Some protesters told me a lesson they learned was, don't worry so much about optics. People are going to say what they want to anyway... I think to a certain extent, it's good to care about how things look. But not let it get in the way of getting things done...
(DIR) Post #9nld37YWn8BirrWfLM by WaltinaNeff@spinster.xyz
2019-10-10T01:34:26Z
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"Sex" is absolutely coming into play in the Stephens case now. @mk Search the pdf for "biological sex" to see relevance.
(DIR) Post #9nld7IUw3ECvxipxCa by WaltinaNeff@spinster.xyz
2019-10-10T01:35:11Z
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"Sex" is absolutely coming into play in the Stephens case now. @mk Search the pdf for "biological sex" to see relevance.https://www.supremecourt.gov/oral_arguments/argument_transcripts/2019/18-107_4gcj.pdf
(DIR) Post #9nlg7AL8gLjMWUsqrg by CharlytheWorm@spinster.xyz
2019-10-10T01:56:20Z
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I listened to Kara and Ann. Hooray grassroots, independent women..And, broader alliances. @MadCityRadiXX @Chris @LiseMeitner @LangCleg @mk @jem199
(DIR) Post #9nmMES2ZSz1bWRM5HE by returningcloud@spinster.xyz
2019-10-10T10:00:42Z
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The problem is that the whole argument by Stephen’s attorney is not coherent. He’s trying to argue 2 things that contradict each other - that Stephens is a male who doesn’t conform to gender/sex stereotypes for males & should be allowed to dress as a woman & then simultaneously say that they are not challenging sex based dress codes. It doesn’t work logically. (I would prefer the Supremes eliminate sex based dress codes since we can see precisely why they are harmful. There would then be no need to torture the definition of sex under the original civil rights act & the subsequent redefinition in Price Waterhouse.) They’re also arguing that Stephens is simultaneously a biological male for the purposes of the CRA & a woman for the purposes of Price Waterhouse. You can’t be considered in 2 separate categories at the same time (or at least you can’t do it coherently)A lot of the questioning by justices showed that they thought the principle they established here would be relevant for wider application than title vii which is why they were so exercised about sports & bathrooms. On that issue I was very heartened by Sotomayor’s line of questioning which shows she understands the competing claims between women’s rights & transgender demands. @mk @MadCityRadiXX @jem199
(DIR) Post #9nmVLzMmrI16UnTpFg by MadCityRadiXX@spinster.xyz
2019-10-10T11:37:21Z
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@returningcloud @mk @jem199 Exactly. It's contradictory b/c trans ideology is itself contradictory. Trans like to assert that they're some great gender-busters, but as radfems and others have pointed out, they are actually gender conformists - they just want to adopt the sex stereotypes assigned to the opposite sex. And see affinity with those stereotypes as evidence that they are trans.
(DIR) Post #9nmWkgqkwKiiGFq9hY by Chris@spinster.xyz
2019-10-10T01:11:10Z
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@CharlytheWorm @MadCityRadiXX @LiseMeitner @LangCleg @mk @jem199 The best would be with people completely turned off by both parties and politics in general but they are just eating chips and watching Netflix.
(DIR) Post #9nmWkhOQv7etwhb3C4 by CharlytheWorm@spinster.xyz
2019-10-10T01:15:44Z
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Mother's Against Drunk Driving. Lol the All-Consuming-Mother, Jordan Peterson's abrahamic greatest fear. @Chris @MadCityRadiXX @LiseMeitner @LangCleg @mk @jem199
(DIR) Post #9nmWkhiHjJXQwGsu8W by Chris@spinster.xyz
2019-10-10T01:20:08Z
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@CharlytheWorm @MadCityRadiXX @LiseMeitner @LangCleg @mk @jem199 I am ok with Women Against Drunk Driving. Is Jordan Peterson against them?PS: I am in Canada and the right wing is very Incel and Jordan Peterson is God to the Incels.I am 100% turned of by any "radfems' who think we can have anything to do with those people.
(DIR) Post #9nmWki4yMxgc4dV1V2 by CharlytheWorm@spinster.xyz
2019-10-10T11:57:51Z
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On hi, missed this. Jenn Smith, in British Columbia, has found support with gender-critical Christians. Jenn says the 💪 of sheer numbers of faithful made them powerful ally.Incels? Ish. Greek tragedies lived by silly boys. Horrors,, no allies there! @Chris @MadCityRadiXX @LiseMeitner @LangCleg @mk @jem199
(DIR) Post #9nmX3iaEicdp8jBcmG by Chris@spinster.xyz
2019-10-10T02:01:33Z
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@MadCityRadiXX @CharlytheWorm @LiseMeitner @LangCleg @mk @jem199 I wish they would reach out to women sports groups and other women's organizations directly affected by this.
(DIR) Post #9nmX3jHU7pEhIrQABk by MadCityRadiXX@spinster.xyz
2019-10-10T02:16:02Z
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@Chris @CharlytheWorm @LiseMeitner @LangCleg @mk @jem199 Who? Do you mean Wolf? Save Women's Sports and The Kelsey coalition were with Wolf and Hands Across the Aisle at the SC yesterday.
(DIR) Post #9nmX3kNu1Rxoj3QnpY by Chris@spinster.xyz
2019-10-10T02:19:18Z
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@MadCityRadiXX @CharlytheWorm @LiseMeitner @LangCleg @mk @jem199 Save Women's Sports, yes. There has to be other women affected by this. I seem to remember midwives getting harassed by Ts and other orgs connected to pregnancy and birth - all the specific women type of things is where they could find people...
(DIR) Post #9nmXX0xlSmUsXaA3Zg by returningcloud@spinster.xyz
2019-10-10T12:05:54Z
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The thing is I think Stephens should have been protected from being fired. It was an explicit act of discrimination. And if he just said I’m a gnc man & shouldn’t be fired for not conforming to sex stereotypes I’d support that completely. But Stephens is saying that what makes him a gnc make is his female gender identity & acceptance of that scares me in terms of what it means for future decisions @MadCityRadiXX @mk @jem199
(DIR) Post #9nmgzuXLKkTWazelJQ by HebrideanHecate@spinster.xyz
2019-10-10T12:04:26Z
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@CharlytheWorm @Chris @MadCityRadiXX @LiseMeitner @LangCleg @mk @jem199 https://transanityca.wordpress.com/2019/07/14/is-jenn-smith-a-christian/
(DIR) Post #9nmgzvC6tB5KdQjJr6 by CharlytheWorm@spinster.xyz
2019-10-10T13:51:37Z
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I liked Laura Lynn the Christian radio host's interview of Jenn Smith. Three of them I saw, at least. @HebrideanHecate @Chris @MadCityRadiXX @LiseMeitner @LangCleg @mk @jem199
(DIR) Post #9nmh6sLDtXT1oVJBOi by CharlytheWorm@spinster.xyz
2019-10-10T12:12:30Z
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Yes, the tribal allieship that has been developed are a real sign of strength. A local tribe worked with one of richest dairy farmers, able to set aside entire salt water estuary conserved forever. For the fish and health of inland sea. Inspiring. There is a tremendous, shared Will-To-Good among us. @MadCityRadiXX @Chris @LiseMeitner @LangCleg @mk @jem199
(DIR) Post #9nmh6sx9cVoBi93TWK by MadCityRadiXX@spinster.xyz
2019-10-10T12:20:59Z
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@CharlytheWorm @Chris @LiseMeitner @LangCleg @mk @jem199 Charly, I have long thought that environmental issues are one area where cross-partisan political alliances can really be successful. I heard a talk years ago by a woman from Alliance for Democracy and she was talking about local water rights issues. And how she got Republicans and environmentalists and others in local communities working together to oppose corporate ownership of their water. I think one of the keys is local face-to-face organizing. We know each other, this is our home, we all have a stake in [whatever issue - clean water, etc].
(DIR) Post #9nmh6tmuW5D0IfGoC0 by CharlytheWorm@spinster.xyz
2019-10-10T13:50:04Z
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@MadCityRadiXX @Chris @LiseMeitner @LangCleg @mk @jem199 Ours was a watershed conservation effort, all agencies, grant funders, and thousands and thousands of volunteers. Much of the conservation projects in my state were brought about from alliances. Mountains to Sound Greenway. Loomis Forest. Alpine Lakes Wilderness. Areas conserved by the actions of allies. Republicans were nature lovers before there was neo-liberal "trickle down economics" vulture capitalists. Women are natural allies with environmental projects and are being targeted worldwide for eco-feminism. Grassroots is the way to go.
(DIR) Post #9nqmGNzKEDEC22IMDo by elizabeththeradicalfeminist@spinster.xyz
2019-10-12T13:11:14Z
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You can read the brief the ACLU filed in behalf of Stephens (called “respondent”) on the ACLU website. You can read the SCOTUS oral argument transcript on the SCOTUS website.@mk