Post 9mfR13OglPG4CaRIJs by SadieN@spinster.xyz
(DIR) More posts by SadieN@spinster.xyz
(DIR) Post #9mfLp8sznNZTA639fc by alex@spinster.xyz
2019-09-07T03:01:03Z
2 likes, 2 repeats
Should we switch Spinster's backend to Pleroma?
(DIR) Post #9mfLyF3SEJ3WtrHTH6 by elizabeththeradicalfeminist@spinster.xyz
2019-09-07T03:02:42Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
Please explain that this means. What’s Pleroma?What does switching the backend mean?What are the pros and cons of switching?@alex
(DIR) Post #9mfMdHhTIafMyfZLqS by alex@spinster.xyz
2019-09-07T03:10:06Z
2 likes, 1 repeats
@elizabeththeradicalfeminist Pleroma is like 20x more efficient. It will be worlds faster and cost us way less money to host in the long term. The user won't notice the difference because it'll happen behind the scenes. In theory it will be easier to customize and save us a lot of hardship.Cons: There are many missing features. We will have to do a lot of work to port over to it and fill in the gaps. There's a lot we don't know, including many potential problems we haven't yet discovered. We'll have to learn a whole new programming language and figure out how everything works. The admin and moderator interface are in their infancy and leave a lot to be desired. It's a major change. But would we rather make a major change now in the very beginning, or suffer through this inevitable change in the future when it will be a lot harder and we've already invested considerable time into the current version?
(DIR) Post #9mfMgd7W7FUoHOLZgG by alex@spinster.xyz
2019-09-07T03:10:43Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@mattpg I ran out of room lmao
(DIR) Post #9mfMkjsmuoEMPYPucq by 11112011@freespeechextremist.com
2019-09-07T03:11:28.587985Z
2 likes, 1 repeats
@alex whatever you and @mk do just leave gag
(DIR) Post #9mfMkx6jkG73Qa2jfk by se7en@freespeechextremist.com
2019-09-07T03:11:30.966741Z
4 likes, 1 repeats
@alex @elizabeththeradicalfeminist Pleroma Does what Mastodon't!
(DIR) Post #9mfMrEHUo6r8Qb4Jwu by HekArtemis@spinster.xyz
2019-09-07T03:12:38Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@alex @elizabeththeradicalfeminist What are the missing features?
(DIR) Post #9mfMyk491z4728PEps by Oblivia@freespeechextremist.com
2019-09-07T03:14:00.504701Z
3 likes, 1 repeats
@11112011 @alex im amazed they don't have the crippling errors that plague gag. just goes to show its not the software, its whoever runs it that makes a fedi site trashfire or not
(DIR) Post #9mfNGPG38KDZi9Ohuq by alex@spinster.xyz
2019-09-07T03:17:11Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@HekArtemis @elizabeththeradicalfeminist The obvious ones are things the user doesn't notice, but the admins and moderators do. Mastodon supports letting users apply for registration, while Pleroma has only "registrations on" and "registrations off". Mastodon has a robust admin and moderator interface while Pleroma doesn't (yet).There are other questions I don't know the answer to. Does Pleroma support embedding YouTube videos directly in the site the way Mastodon does? No clue.
(DIR) Post #9mfNRvNA4W9YUyDT84 by alex@spinster.xyz
2019-09-07T03:19:16Z
4 likes, 3 repeats
@Oblivia @11112011 Gab is serving >1million users. We have 6000.They shared some numbers with me about how many Sidekiq processes they're running and it's in the hundreds. We're running 16. There's gotta be a limit at some point to what Mastodon is capable of. If I was running Gab with that many users I would be having the same issues.
(DIR) Post #9mfNSsTwIxdDp4qDNw by 11112011@freespeechextremist.com
2019-09-07T03:19:27.261420Z
2 likes, 1 repeats
@Oblivia @alex its obvious that they dont block,andy does that tells a lot,the cripling errors,well...
(DIR) Post #9mfNVrIJB1Ff0Zp2RM by 11112011@freespeechextremist.com
2019-09-07T03:19:59.609492Z
4 likes, 1 repeats
@alex @Oblivia surely you dont belive in that number
(DIR) Post #9mfNo4gje9wRB5GpbE by HekArtemis@spinster.xyz
2019-09-07T03:23:07Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@alex @elizabeththeradicalfeminist Then it's not really a question we can answer if we don't have any real information to help us answer.
(DIR) Post #9mfNrxBtSpT95Dh6UC by darwi_odrade@spinster.xyz
2019-09-07T03:23:58Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@alex Tough call.
(DIR) Post #9mfNtyIWlikfCOUC6C by Oblivia@freespeechextremist.com
2019-09-07T03:24:21.073489Z
3 likes, 2 repeats
@alex @11112011 spinster has about a thousand posts per day. gab has only 10k per day. i don't think those million accts are users, they mostly dead accounts and bots
(DIR) Post #9mfOEAsrwJMDK97Xgu by alex@spinster.xyz
2019-09-07T03:27:59Z
2 likes, 1 repeats
@Oblivia @11112011 If we had to scale 10x right now I'd be having a panic attack. Our server is at its absolute limit. Even 2x would be a struggle.I think the Gab dev team is more competent than you give them credit for. When I was struggling at first I reached out for help and they helped solve my problem.
(DIR) Post #9mfOWx5BTcpw1PpoUS by mike@freespeechextremist.com
2019-09-07T03:31:23.724592Z
1 likes, 2 repeats
@alex @Oblivia @11112011 was Gab migrating to Mastodon a poor decision from a technical standpoint? Does the platform not scale well to whatever number of legitimate users Gab is serving content to?
(DIR) Post #9mfOe2bzJmvHCHYi4O by 11112011@freespeechextremist.com
2019-09-07T03:32:40.632132Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@alex @Oblivia so why are you thinking about changing if its so good?
(DIR) Post #9mfP0tgweHqQBzmB1c by Greenfemtrix@spinster.xyz
2019-09-07T03:36:47Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@alex @HekArtemis @elizabeththeradicalfeminist are you on any platforms which use Pleroma and can get an idea of its capabilities? I think looking at this from the perspective of "must haves" and "want to haves" is an easier way to determine whether it will work for Spinster at this time. Does Pleroma support private groups? THAT is a feature we need since Mastodon doesn't allow us that option at this time.
(DIR) Post #9mfPDZJ1knjwjQdArw by Oblivia@freespeechextremist.com
2019-09-07T03:39:05.869125Z
3 likes, 1 repeats
@alex @11112011 you missed my point here i think. i was saying that gab can't possibly be the million users they claim to be, it just isn't busy enough. the post per day comparison was to give you an idea of the actual size of gab. it aint even ten times the size of spinster, and there's a million over there? i doubt itim familiar with the dev team btw and they uh... don't like the way i pick this stuff apart
(DIR) Post #9mfPKYyTNvApjMLt5M by Oblivia@freespeechextremist.com
2019-09-07T03:40:21.730153Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@alex @11112011 your instance only hit 6k users today, idk if you watch that stuff
(DIR) Post #9mfR13OglPG4CaRIJs by SadieN@spinster.xyz
2019-09-07T03:59:14Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@alex I would just like to contribute that I have no idea what you're talking about it but that I hope Spinsters interface doesn't change
(DIR) Post #9mfS6FCKPsjeCehFRI by alex@spinster.xyz
2019-09-07T04:11:22Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@SadieN Don't worry, the interface won't change except for small improvements. 😄
(DIR) Post #9mfVTtT59tJxccVA80 by unicorny@spinster.xyz
2019-09-07T04:49:15Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@alex Mastodon uses RoR and JS, yeah? Pleroma uses Elixir. Never heard of Elixir, does it have a large number of developers? I would figure RoR has more developers than Elixir -- Elixir sounds like a niche language? If that's the case and because Spinster is open-source, wouldn't we be more likely to have people help out with development if we stayed on the current Mastodon/RoR path?The fact that Elixir has less mod and admin features makes it sound less appealing as well. In regards to hosting costs, at what approximate point would hosting cost more with Mastodon than with Elixir? If it's way into the future, with many active users, I wonder if it's really worth the switch. Maybe by the time Spinster gets to that point, Pleroma will have more features?My vote is to remain with Mastodon, but that is only with my current bits of knowledge on this subject.
(DIR) Post #9mfW88nZZzCGkgHFxY by alex@spinster.xyz
2019-09-07T04:56:32Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@unicorny I think I agree with you.> Maybe by the time Spinster gets to that point, Pleroma will have more features?That's my thinking as well.In terms of the language, I've been told Elixir is "the right tool for the job." I can't imagine it's worse than Ruby. I've been learning Ruby to work on this project and it's felt like negotiating the rules of College Mao at a frat party.We're at the point of needing to upgrade our current server. If we switched to Pleroma, we likely wouldn't need to, but we'd pay a cost in a different way, with our time and energy. It's hard to measure the exact cost difference without benchmarks.
(DIR) Post #9mfatNn83OLug7qs8e by NeoRadFem@spinster.xyz
2019-09-07T05:49:54Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
Oh please please do. @alex
(DIR) Post #9mfcZC7BxMYka6jlx2 by HellaDea@spinster.xyz
2019-09-07T06:08:39Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@alex i just dont want to be off social media for too long thanks
(DIR) Post #9mfcZUlYc1XkQVlGMq by HyperLight@spinster.xyz
2019-09-07T06:08:42Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@alexThe impression I get of Pleroma is purely based on the servers I've visited that run it and they look different from Mastodon, particularly confusing me with one stream constantly scrolling and I think it was the same for profiles. They didn't look "profile-like" to me. I preferred the common Mastodon look. I didn't know you could keep the same interface and switch from Mastodon to Pleroma. I assumed there was a Mastodon interface, a Pleroma interface, a PixelFed interface, etc etc.So if we can keep the look of Spinster and the pros list is longer than the cons lists for backend management (which I have no knowledge of yet, so my pov is purely that of a user), go for it. If the look is gonna change or the settings options is be against.
(DIR) Post #9mfdAZbnZQlM9zsQq0 by HyperLight@spinster.xyz
2019-09-07T06:15:24Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@alexThe impression I get of Pleroma is purely based on the servers I've visited that run it and they look different from Mastodon, particularly confusing me with one stream constantly scrolling and I think it was the same for profiles. They didn't look "profile-like" to me. I preferred the common Mastodon look. I didn't know you could keep the same interface and switch from Mastodon to Pleroma. I assumed there was a Mastodon interface, a Pleroma interface, a PixelFed interface, etc etc.So if we can keep the look of Spinster and the pros list is longer than the cons lists for backend management (which I have no knowledge of yet, so my pov is purely that of a user), go for it. If the look is gonna change or the settings options I'd be against.
(DIR) Post #9mfdso6n1Onjs9StpQ by alex@spinster.xyz
2019-09-07T06:23:24Z
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@HyperLight To be fully compliant, all Fediverse software uses a standardized client-server API, hence why apps like Fedilab work with Pleroma and Mastodon. The web interface for both is really "just another app" so in theory they're swappable.
(DIR) Post #9mfdvzxPQOwhUObChE by LilyB@spinster.xyz
2019-09-07T06:23:59Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
I have no idea! @alex
(DIR) Post #9mfeGjxY6DAzxEYTSK by georgia@spinster.xyz
2019-09-07T06:27:43Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@alexmore accurate would be "no, stay with gab social"
(DIR) Post #9mfePm5NYyBL9gWdPM by alex@spinster.xyz
2019-09-07T06:29:22Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@georgia Gab Social really is mainly the front-end though, which we're definitely keeping. The Mastodon back-end is largely unchanged.
(DIR) Post #9mfehOmivxhW6LCfZo by NeoRadFem@spinster.xyz
2019-09-07T06:32:33Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
Pleroma is light and fast and has some really nice features. If nothing else, in theory, it should keep the resource requirements quite low. What's not to like? What are the disadvantages? @alex @HyperLight
(DIR) Post #9mfejPL3qUqWOkDqJU by HyperLight@spinster.xyz
2019-09-07T06:32:54Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@alexAhh, I see. That's pretty cool. 💗 My love for the nature of the fediverse grows.I don't think most users will feel able to weigh in if they don't know how a change in the backend will effect their experience using Spinster. They'd need a "this is what Pleroma is like" compared to "this is what Mastodon is like" chart or something. And if there won't be any difference from the user side, a chart would still be useful, as I can see the benefit of users feeling involved and knowledgeable about the platform they use even if they may never be on the admin side of things.
(DIR) Post #9mffWioAFPXeyGLkau by georgia@spinster.xyz
2019-09-07T06:41:49Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@alexI didn't know that, I thought it was forkier. like with added features. I mean it makes sense if other instances see our software as mastodon currently. and since you guys decided to fork from gab social primarily for the interface you'd naturally keep that part of it. so basically my post was pedantic if not useless :blob_melt_sob:
(DIR) Post #9mffkvw6EcMdjzq1mC by alex@spinster.xyz
2019-09-07T06:44:23Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@georgia There are a few changes to the back-end, such as verification checkmarks and PRO badges. If we moved to Pleroma we'd reimplement these.
(DIR) Post #9mfgy6rJ2H0xKsRVui by dwaltiz@pleroma.soykaf.com
2019-09-07T06:57:58.961567Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@alex switch to Pleroma just to potentially piss kaniini off
(DIR) Post #9mfudL5iK7l2knAj5M by DorsetGirl@spinster.xyz
2019-09-07T09:31:05Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
I haven't any idea what Pleroma is, what changing the backend would involve or what kind of change we would see, but there was a person here last night who had Pleroma in their bio and kept going on about the bible, so that's not particularly a recommendation imo.Also, some of your polls are only up for 24 hours which doesn't much time - even if I had nothing else planned - to do the reading to undestand what on earth you're talking about in order to vote. (And then I forget anyway...) I kind of feel I only just fit in here anyway, because I'm not an activist and I don't want to be posting about trans stuff the entire time, but now I'm starting to feel I'm in the wrong place because you're expecting us to know all this other technical stuff while I can barely figure out facebook. I just want to be an end user, but I will say that I'm very happy with the look and feel of spinster as it stands, and I'm extremely grateful to MK and yourself for creating it.@alex
(DIR) Post #9mgBo9p4G4mEDA88NE by billstclair@kiwifarms.cc
2019-09-07T12:43:33.019341Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@alex I didn't vote. I write software for a living, run my own Pleroma instance, and helped the Gab team to debug their Mastodon fork (as a user, not a developer). I still don't know the answer to your question. So I hope you're not expecting much from the poll results.Evidence is that Pleroma is hugely less hoggish of resources than Mastodon. My one-user Pleroma instance is very happy on a $5/month Digital Ocean droplet. That's 1 gig of RAM, 25 gigs of hard drive, and one virtual processor. It's currently using about half of that RAM, and I haven't even bothered to set up swap space, since I've seen no evidence that it needs it. Someone on Gab told me that he needed a $15/month droplet (3 gigs of RAM) to run out-of-the-box Mastodon, and he still wasn't happy with it.Remember, even though your UI code will likely work with only small changes against a Pleroma backend, you'll need to convert your database. Hopefully, somebody has done that before, and provided their script, but you'll have to modify that to work with Gab's (small) changes to the Mastodon database.@robcolbert will begin very soon the conversion of the Gab backend to Hydra, and it may perform as well or better than Pleroma. Since I have some understanding of the miracle that is Elixir/Erlang, I will be surprised if he beats it, but it may be enough better than Mastodon that you won't care, and he'll solve a lot of your compatibility problems for you.So if you can afford to wait, trying Hydra before committing to Pleroma could be an easier solution to your growing user base problem. But I have seen no ETA on Hydra, only that it is a near-term project.https://etwof.com/gab/hydra
(DIR) Post #9mgHhtEFdl0ejZIvCq by crunklord420@kiwifarms.cc
2019-09-07T13:49:38.458081Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@alex software written in Ruby is generally a lost cause.
(DIR) Post #9mgSVrdvlDHGX5BrJw by georgia@spinster.xyz
2019-09-07T15:49:04Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@DorsetGirl @alexyou can post about whatever you want. spinster is unique from other servers that use similar software because gender critical views won't get you banned, contrary to popular belief its not a designated place to shit on trans people. and you don't need to know how things work on the server side, but don't get upset when other people talk about it. and I'm sure you noticed that the third choice "I don't know what that me[ans]" was chosen by a large majority of respondents, so you're not alone here. unlike facebook or twitter which don't let you know or care how you feel about how they work the code for spinster is open source and the philosophy of transparency is baked in. spinster wouldn't exist without the technologies discussed here, when you're thankful for spinster, you're thankful for the free software movement. In summary: relax. this was an informal query, it won't go on your final grade, and no one is prescribing what you can say.
(DIR) Post #9mh6ubbEXk66BGHUKO by af@social.librem.one
2019-09-07T23:23:23Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@alex this is really interesting. Instead of pleromaFE you want to use Mastodon.