Post 9jz9BmCk00S4cbFGi0 by kyle@mammoth.social
(DIR) More posts by kyle@mammoth.social
(DIR) Post #9jz1jKKrK4XqOqWtgu by sir@cmpwn.com
2019-06-18T21:13:26Z
11 likes, 6 repeats
For anyone who doesn't understand why the Tusky change is wrong:It may not be against the letter of free/open source software*, but it is certainly in the spirit. FOSS does not discriminate against its users and remain FOSS, including the users you don't like. The freedom to use the software as you wish is unalienable, including for gab users.* both definitionsThat, and don't add rickrolls to your project for any reason.
(DIR) Post #9jz1o0vOv05Ve9rAuW by jeff@social.i2p.rocks
2019-06-18T21:14:39.098381Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@sir rick roles are over 10 years old pushing 15.
(DIR) Post #9jz1qAZO1u6C8gaUCW by ben@mastodon.lubar.me
2019-06-18T21:14:21Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sirif free software is supportive of nazis then I don't want free software
(DIR) Post #9jz1qAnDCV9qpZ3Wka by jeff@social.i2p.rocks
2019-06-18T21:15:02.239613Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@ben @sir you don't want free software then. simple.
(DIR) Post #9jz23RJv3xjrr2gFqy by sir@cmpwn.com
2019-06-18T21:16:30Z
2 likes, 1 repeats
@ben then you don't want free software.
(DIR) Post #9jz27ybhFHvMFY9v4i by ben@mastodon.lubar.me
2019-06-18T21:17:12Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir is free software defined as software that the creator has no control over what code they compile and publish because nazis want to control it instead?
(DIR) Post #9jz2KgZ7dQ543l0zSq by sir@cmpwn.com
2019-06-18T21:19:01Z
2 likes, 2 repeats
@ben yes. The first freedom is the freedom to run the software as you choose. If you do not have this freedom, you do not have free software. If you add to your license "and you can't use this if you're a nazi", then the software is not free software. The Tusky change isn't that but it's certainly in the spirit of it
(DIR) Post #9jz2qQH5jt0cnjiNaS by sir@cmpwn.com
2019-06-18T21:22:04Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@the_gayest_doggo if you don't think my take is genuine then you know where the block button is, I'm not interested in defending the spirit of my post against defamation
(DIR) Post #9jz2uekvq8YQs9guTQ by ben@mastodon.lubar.me
2019-06-18T21:22:37Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir are you saying that people who support genocide are unable to stop supporting genocide and we need to cater to them?
(DIR) Post #9jz30J8R8fJtYPNchc by deejoe@mastodon.sdf.org
2019-06-18T21:23:45Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir If the *licensing* discriminates, it is not FOSS.Customization to fit a particular use is a very different consideration. The ability to make discriminations at run time is the essence of all the password, login, access-control mechanisms in ubiquitous use.
(DIR) Post #9jz35SxW2cirTCjQ6i by sir@cmpwn.com
2019-06-18T21:24:25Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@deejoe that's not a reasonable comparison and I think you know it.
(DIR) Post #9jz3ANqeTDSR4ErkFk by sir@cmpwn.com
2019-06-18T21:25:19Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ben you needn't *cater* to them but you cannot explicitly reject them
(DIR) Post #9jz3JZUiXUb1nGzHCS by rune@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2019-06-18T21:26:26Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@sir "the first freedom: the unlimited use for any purpose."Definitely against the spirit. And what's even the point? Anyone can pull down the source and git reverse 2 SHAs before compiling the code.There are so many good ways to deal with abusive communities but this is not one. And it poisons the spirit of what freedom is about.
(DIR) Post #9jz3MzGXB9DYafywWe by thatbrickster@aria.company
2019-06-18T21:32:12.213827Z
1 likes, 4 repeats
@ben Best give up on wanting free software. Freedom isn't something that can be cherrypicked, it is a natural right. People who spread hate have the freedom to do so but that also means I have the freedom to criticise them and mock them for it. I wouldn't be stopping them as censorship treads on freedom.@sir
(DIR) Post #9jz3T2OITLFI1LUwBk by deejoe@mastodon.sdf.org
2019-06-18T21:26:49Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir clearly we disagree
(DIR) Post #9jz3XPQSlr0AcXazgm by wowaname@anime.website
2019-06-18T21:34:19.822110Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@ben @sir why should my computer care what fucking political ideologies i have
(DIR) Post #9jz3cCzqPUm9WHQwZU by wowaname@anime.website
2019-06-18T21:35:11.851471Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@ben @sir its a computer, its tasked to run code, if you want to get rid of fascists and genocide then you can do so without the use of technology as a weapon
(DIR) Post #9jz3dR2dg0AXMxKFTk by ben@mastodon.lubar.me
2019-06-18T21:29:00Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir you are getting very strangely angry at someone who said "I don't support people who like genocide", as if supporting genocide is something someone can never stop doing
(DIR) Post #9jz3e6tC5VZN9pEIaW by jeff@social.i2p.rocks
2019-06-18T21:35:13.656945Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@bob @sir the problem is that i got thrown into the ring as "LITERALLY A NAZI" so... i can't take anything these people say seriously.
(DIR) Post #9jz3l8nFPHsP5dnhqq by sir@cmpwn.com
2019-06-18T21:30:35Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@ben if you say "I don't support people who like genocide" and kick me in the knee, I can be angry at you. I'm not angry at you because you don't support genocide. In fact, I'm not angry at you at all.
(DIR) Post #9jz4A3hfT6QQXk4Z9c by ben@mastodon.lubar.me
2019-06-18T21:35:12Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir why are you angry at people who say "I don't support people who like genocide" and then kick people who like genocide in the knee?
(DIR) Post #9jz4XYaymJnb0v9IVk by sir@cmpwn.com
2019-06-18T21:37:10Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@ben it was an analogy and you're taking it literally to avoid discussing the actual matter at hand. If you're just trying to waste my time because you think my opinions render my time less valuable or even worth wasting, then I don't appreciate it
(DIR) Post #9jz4g9J0Av7NBVpxzM by bob@soc.freedombone.net
2019-06-18T21:33:03.309543Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir I think the rickroll is in the classic hacker spirit. Also people who absolutely refuse to discriminate against neo-nazis - prioritizing detached posturing above other people's safety - don't have much backbone or sense of the contemporary situation imho.
(DIR) Post #9jz4g9VPQn2hnzdsKO by moonman@shitposter.club
2019-06-18T21:46:50.525143Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@bob @sir how does a rickroll keep people safe
(DIR) Post #9jz4khFBvzd5bMDuCW by hj@shigusegubu.club
2019-06-18T21:47:40.949255Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@moonman @bob @sir doesn't give them us and never lits them down
(DIR) Post #9jz4wMRb5s9AZCaWPo by brandon@fosstodon.org
2019-06-18T21:39:00Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir my only interjection is that this change makes the software incompatible with other software rather than users. They're perfectly able to sign up to any other instance and be Nazis :pI don't agree with this change, but that's why I'm not burning down comment threads talking positively about the change
(DIR) Post #9jz58cpI0kg2qlWArI by karabiner@shitposter.club
2019-06-18T21:52:01.494046Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ben @sir Yeah man, fuck those goddamn nazis and their rights and freedom
(DIR) Post #9jz5BVVdfiJj1ehVa4 by zemichi@pl.smuglo.li
2019-06-18T21:52:32.518490Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ben @sir go back 2 windows ->
(DIR) Post #9jz5lsnKZhLnfXJyjI by ben@mastodon.lubar.me
2019-06-18T21:41:57Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir the actual matter at hand is literally that someone said they don't like people who support genocide and you said that they're not allowed to say that because of freedom
(DIR) Post #9jz64KV8IkXSoNbbBw by sir@cmpwn.com
2019-06-18T21:44:15Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@ben I'm not going to rehash this with you again. The problem is that saying "people who support genocide cannot use this software" makes your software nonfree. If you have anything else to say on this line of discussion, keep it to yourself.
(DIR) Post #9jz6sgJ1VRtEutx0l6 by pounce@cmpwn.com
2019-06-18T21:56:16Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sirdisagree. if people wanted to use gab they could fork itthat's like saying sway is not free software because it discriminates against Nvidia users
(DIR) Post #9jz9BmCk00S4cbFGi0 by kyle@mammoth.social
2019-06-18T22:21:43Z
8 likes, 4 repeats
@sir This whole Tusky situation is ridiculous. It's like if web browsers started telling you what websites you can visit.Tusky is a Mastodon client and it should stay focused on being the best Mastodon client it can be. It should not be dictating to its users who they can interact with.
(DIR) Post #9jzGjdytmLQQdtroS8 by rune@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2019-06-18T21:57:55Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@bob Let's ignore what it is in spirit for a minute.What does this achive?Let's imagine I'm an angry nazi. I wake up and want to troll mastodon, but I can't. I'm slightly infuriated. Do I:A. Install another appB. Create a new account on another instanceC. Recompile the app without 67 lines of codeAnd does it matter which option I pick? In no time I'm back online more angry than before.This change does nothing to tangiably benefit the fediverse.It only forces choices on the user.
(DIR) Post #9jzGjeCMyGCVJgAZRw by bob@soc.freedombone.net
2019-06-18T22:05:17.956493Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@rune I think right now the Tusky app is in a critical place and the values of its developers really matter.The nazis want to use fediverse apps to get around being blocked by app stores. Tusky happens to be one of the most popular. By denying them the ability to log in via Tusky this makes it harder for them to gain traction here. It forces them to use less popular apps or make a Tusky derivative (they would still have the four freedoms). If they do the latter then this means they'll need to re-submit it to app stores and will almost certainly be rejected.
(DIR) Post #9jzGjeMINM8loSoUvA by licho@gnusocial.no
2019-06-19T00:01:53+00:00
0 likes, 0 repeats
Anyone gets called nazi these days tbh. Even advocating for freedom of speech (anti-authoritarian, pro-people liberty). This so called "safety from nazis" is sensationalist garbage from literal bigots. I do not believe it is right to discriminate against people based on their views.
(DIR) Post #9jzs6MmvZ5RQHdxw6i by qtd3n@kawen.space
2019-06-18T23:04:25.726358Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@thatbrickster @ben >natural rights(thinking emoji)weird how these natural rights always seem to exactly align with 17th and 18th c. enlightenment liberal philosophy
(DIR) Post #9jzs6N1ofjLp1ovpJY by thatbrickster@aria.company
2019-06-19T07:00:36.804924Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@qtd3n By 'natural' I mean they are negative rights. They cannot be granted, only restricted.@ben
(DIR) Post #9jztZZJiA7AnUcmxBA by Feuerfuchs@kawen.space
2019-06-19T07:17:07.382302Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kyle @sir I think you'll like the post I've made when the Rick Roll PR became public: https://kawen.space/notice/9jPkp71bcEwtpMySFE
(DIR) Post #9k08lc1RQbyafeRa7s by CyReVolt@mastodon.social
2019-06-19T10:05:24Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@thatbrickster @qtd3n @ben Free software is literally about non-restriction and preservation.
(DIR) Post #9k08lcEYdqT5KKa3ZQ by thatbrickster@aria.company
2019-06-19T10:07:22.497469Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@CyReVolt So you agree with me.@ben @qtd3n
(DIR) Post #9k09gzLzM4v3XQPiUK by CyReVolt@mastodon.social
2019-06-19T10:11:37Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@thatbrickster @qtd3n @ben #itsatrapYou have stated multiple points, one of which implies abuse, which I do not agree to. Nice try though.
(DIR) Post #9k09gzdiIB66QOhs7E by thatbrickster@aria.company
2019-06-19T10:17:44.560701Z
3 likes, 1 repeats
@CyReVolt If you look through the thread you will see I opposed the idea of allowing one type of expression but not another. This was in reference to apps like Tusky blocking Gab users, violating their freedom to use the software. I don't like Gab but stopping someone from using it through 'free software' like Tusky, etc. does not make it freedom-respecting.>nice try though'I find one point you made disagreeable so my only retort is a smarmy remark instead of something constructive.'If that's all you have to offer, you haven't contributed at all.@ben @qtd3n
(DIR) Post #9k0AWaicC0oABybSO8 by CyReVolt@mastodon.social
2019-06-19T10:23:28Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@thatbrickster @qtd3n @ben I disagree with "not wanting free software", to be specific.
(DIR) Post #9k0AWax9JyQyv3P42i by thatbrickster@aria.company
2019-06-19T10:27:03.920194Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@CyReVolt Which goes to the point of what makes something 'supportive of Nazis' seeing as it's subjective. What you may call fascist/hate speech/whatever term you wish to use may not be to someone else. In the end you can't pick and choose what parts of free speech you want in the same way you can't pick and choose when encryption should protect secrets. They're powers for both good and bad and distorting it violates individual freedoms regardless.@ben @qtd3n
(DIR) Post #9k0CaIbHhJgJ4A4PFw by patrick@georgi.family
2019-06-19T10:37:28.956520Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@thatbrickster @CyReVolt @ben @qtd3n The gab.com block doesn't block any particular "type of expression", it blocks using a particular server through the app.The main promise of federation that I see is the removal of a central controlling instance. In that light, I applaud the gab.com blockade simply because it (hopefully) encourages people to roll their own. And yes, that means that blocking nazis becomes a game of Whack-a-mole (as @sir pointed out).From there it's just another step to not putting any trust in providers of app binaries: build your own Tusky (under your own name), and you won't have issues with block lists like that because you control these block lists.Meanwhile, the Tusky app developers are free (as in freedom!) to shape their app in the way that pleases them.This attempt at exerting social control over Tusky app developers as if they owe anybody anything because free software ought to be "freedom respecting" is infringing on the app developers freedom to creative expression (no matter how annoying or shallow you may find it). While it's also free expression to criticize them for it, I think it's misguided to do so via some imaginary moral imperative.(and now I'm on a level of meta-critique that's way beyond my comfort zone :-) )
(DIR) Post #9k0JiXGlk2A2YcLgUS by CyReVolt@mastodon.social
2019-06-19T10:34:37Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@thatbrickster @qtd3n @ben So your basic point is that the idea of preserving freedom is not free (which is a valid point imho) and therefore Free Software as defined by GNU is not desirable?
(DIR) Post #9k0JiXVIrzmrHh9I92 by thatbrickster@aria.company
2019-06-19T12:10:04.702463Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@CyReVolt No, it is not. You have misrepresented my argument. I am no longer interested in discussing this with you.@ben @qtd3n
(DIR) Post #9k0KZUQt1FxH6hKcYS by thatbrickster@aria.company
2019-06-19T12:19:39.466334Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@patrick >The gab[dot]com block doesn't block any particular "type of expression", it blocks using a particular server through the app.Which impedes on the freedom to use Gab, a service you or I don't approve of, through said apps.>The main promise of federation that I see is the removal of a central controlling instance.I agree with you there although it can mean the possibility of multiple controlling instances.> In that light, I applaud the gab[dot]com blockade simply because it (hopefully) encourages people to roll their own.Having multiple open choices, like Mastodon and Pleroma, that are easy to set up encourages people to roll their own. I don't think blocking Gab won't have the effect you're describing.>From there it's just another step to not putting any trust in providers of app binaries: build your own Tusky (under your own name), and you won't have issues with block lists like that because you control these block lists.>Meanwhile, the Tusky app developers are free (as in freedom!) to shape their app in the way that pleases them.I agree with these as well. I'm not saying the Tusky devs can't do blocklists or whatnot but do recognise that I am also free to criticise that decision.>This attempt at exerting social control over Tusky app developers as if they owe anybody anything because free software ought to be "freedom respecting" is infringing on the app developers freedom to creative expression (no matter how annoying or shallow you may find it). While it's also free expression to criticize them for it, I think it's misguided to do so via some imaginary moral imperative.Social control? I am simply speaking out against it, not boycotting it. We'll agree to disagree here as we have different ideas of how encompassing 'freedom' is.I appreciate you responding in detail like that. It's healthy to discuss these nuances even if we don't agree on everything. :)@CyReVolt @ben @qtd3n @sir
(DIR) Post #9k0XcQFgJncaPhorD6 by patrick@georgi.family
2019-06-19T14:10:25.276049Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@thatbrickster @CyReVolt @ben @qtd3n @sir > Which impedes on the freedom to use Gab, a service you or I don't approve of, through said apps.Quoting Tusky's license (GPLv3), capital letters and all: "EXCEPT WHEN OTHERWISE STATED IN WRITING THE COPYRIGHT HOLDERS AND/OR OTHER PARTIES PROVIDE THE PROGRAM "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE."This means that the GPLv3 (which is _the_ Free Software license) actively denies the notion that there's a promise that the code it covers is suitable for any particular purpose (like: signing in with Gab). Apparently Free Software isn't about that particular freedom.One of the reason given for the block was that apparently app stores are rather sensitive to apps that "enable Gab". Removing it means an increase in maintenance effort for the developers (namely: arguing with automated systems that, following complaints, kick you out with only cursory review and a really hard time to get back in). Free Software isn't supposed to be self-sacrificial.Since talk is cheap, I'll wait for the proponents of an open-for-all Tusky to run a fork that strips the offending line, builds the package and provides it on the relevant app store(s). Unlike dealing with store de-listings, this should be trivial to automate. That way handling the presumed overhead of enabling Gab (namely: arguing with app stores) is up to those who believe that it's an important thing to do.
(DIR) Post #9k0XcQUDRlFP8mcSrg by thatbrickster@aria.company
2019-06-19T14:45:50.698743Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@patrick Once again, I am criticising the action of impeding the use of Gab via Tusky (in this case). I am not criticising the software.As we're not getting anywhere I'll leave you to vehemently defend a software licence over a user's freedom to choose.@CyReVolt @ben @qtd3n @sir
(DIR) Post #9k0Y6zAv2UmtPhAJNY by deejoe@mastodon.sdf.org
2019-06-18T21:28:52Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir the flip side of this is what Purism did with their fork--clearly within the scope of their software freedom, but deplorable (yes) in terms of how they exercise their right to associate
(DIR) Post #9k0Y6zRE3rpcEGnKnQ by deejoe@mastodon.sdf.org
2019-06-18T21:33:48Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir in short, so long as someone is free to fork and make the changes they wish (eg, remove the rickroll, remove moderation tools), it's free software through and through.
(DIR) Post #9k0Y6zdzIQ2WrqlWgi by ignaloidas@mastodon.gamedev.place
2019-06-18T21:48:42Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@deejoe @sir While it is still technically free software, it doesn't follow the spirit of free software. I could make a program, obfuscate the code as hard as I could, and release just the obfuscated code as free software. While it is still technically is free software, only I have the real possibility to understand the code and contribute to it, which goes against the spirit of open source.
(DIR) Post #9k0ZcUq9SXFIYI2ayO by patrick@georgi.family
2019-06-19T15:02:06.619017Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@thatbrickster @CyReVolt @ben @qtd3n @sir I'm also defending the right of the authors to avoid extra maintenance work (second half of the post). Where's the threshold of hassle that a developer is supposed to endure in service if the user?
(DIR) Post #9k0ZcV5kWXirKfL3Hk by thatbrickster@aria.company
2019-06-19T15:08:15.947525Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@patrick A developer has the freedom to make those decisions as much as I have the freedom to constructively criticise them. Software licences do not protect actions from criticism. That's all I have to say.@CyReVolt @ben @qtd3n @sir
(DIR) Post #9k0f1ea0srRtlmJ7o0 by qtd3n@kawen.space
2019-06-19T16:00:45.579474Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@thatbrickster @CyReVolt @ben >Which goes to the point of what makes something 'supportive of Nazis' seeing as it's subjective. What you may call fascist/hate speech/whatever term you wish to use may not be to someone else.The fact that something is "subjective" doesn't mean that we can't come to some kind of agreement on a particular meaning. The number of trees that make up the abstract concept of a forest is subjective, but I know that one or two trees doesn't make a forest. Similarly, most laws are based on "subjective" ideas of what's right. Your preference for negative liberties is "subjective" too. So to say something is "subjective" isn't really an argument unless you're going to throw out every rule or even opinion based on a value judgement.
(DIR) Post #9k0f1emQ8jNEOG7292 by thatbrickster@aria.company
2019-06-19T16:08:50.263831Z
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@qtd3n >Your preference for negative liberties is "subjective" too. So to say something is "subjective" isn't really an argument unless you're going to throw out every rule or even opinion based on a value judgement.I'm sorry that I don't consider everyone I disagree with as a Nazi. My value judgement is subjective, sure, but it's less demeaning and slanderous as accusing someone of something they may not be.@CyReVolt @ben
(DIR) Post #9k0fiSp0TaP1kpjZdw by qtd3n@kawen.space
2019-06-19T16:13:35.126544Z
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@thatbrickster @CyReVolt @ben I don't think there's much value in quibbling over whether someone is a nazi or if they're an Italian fascist or if they're a white nationalist etc. and to say it's demeaning to call one as the other is a stretch, since these people tend to associate with each other very closely anyway. Imagine if you're a white nationalist and someone calls you a Nazi; somehow I doubt the reaction will be "How dare you! How could you say something so demeaning! I'll have you know I'm a white nationalist, totally different ballgame."
(DIR) Post #9k0fiTFEu3O14C0WX2 by thatbrickster@aria.company
2019-06-19T16:16:34.773604Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@qtd3n Nazis were not white nationalists, but okay. You're trying too hard now.@CyReVolt @ben
(DIR) Post #9k0frKtdJOu5mS82DI by kaniini@pleroma.site
2019-06-19T16:18:10.640824Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@thatbrickster @qtd3n @CyReVolt @ben this is only true on technicality, nazis were basically a subset of white nationalism.
(DIR) Post #9k0g9YxblDVec0gAIC by ben@mastodon.lubar.me
2019-06-19T16:19:03Z
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@kaniini @qtd3n @CyReVoltthe take you're replying to is so blatantly incorrect that I don't think it could be made in good faith
(DIR) Post #9k0g9ZB4x8HjHmyvI0 by kaniini@pleroma.site
2019-06-19T16:21:27.183764Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ben @CyReVolt @qtd3n indeed. my point was that there are certainly many, many similarities.
(DIR) Post #9k0goDElQqZZ6y5Rtg by 1iceloops123@shitposter.club
2019-06-19T16:28:49.816919Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kaniini @thatbrickster @CyReVolt @ben @qtd3n what i don't like about people calling people nazis is that even being a little right wing will get you called a nazi like i'm a libertarian but just because i don't like stuff like abortion or whatever. like i'm a nazi because i don't agree with how the goverment is handling things. like heck i read the dailystromer a few times and to me it was kinda a joke like i think they had a few topics about video games but the charlottesville stuff they posted i would disagree with but i'm not going to want to censor the dailystromer or whoever and this is why i don't like authoritarians because they act like kids and want to ban stuff.
(DIR) Post #9k0h7noBgWFI2Nzsem by 1iceloops123@shitposter.club
2019-06-19T16:32:21.532060Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@kaniini @thatbrickster @CyReVolt @ben @qtd3n like the left and the right are kinda losers because they just want to censor eachother and what they really need to do is debate and understand why x group thinks the way they do.
(DIR) Post #9k0hEXOn5sIbAfKV6W by qtd3n@kawen.space
2019-06-19T16:32:02.817347Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@1iceloops123 @kaniini @CyReVolt @ben @thatbrickster ...you're a libertarian but you "don't like" stuff like abortion? The autonomy of one's body is a core libertarian principle. In the end I agree with you, it's not productive to call "everyone" on the right a nazi, and it's certainly not productive to call run of the mill liberals nazis. But the discussion isn't about them, it's about the far right which operates on explicitly anti-humanist and anti-liberal principles against even formal equality regardless of race, gender and religion.
(DIR) Post #9k0hEXYMWHxHeLo91U by 1iceloops123@shitposter.club
2019-06-19T16:33:34.778445Z
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@qtd3n @CyReVolt @ben @kaniini @thatbrickster well i am a consertive libertarian. like you can probably even have right leaning democrats and left leaning republicans.
(DIR) Post #9k0hXVp1BI2LmYe3Fo by 1iceloops123@shitposter.club
2019-06-19T16:37:01.432071Z
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@qtd3n @CyReVolt @ben @kaniini @thatbrickster to me with the real nazis its mostly they are scared of the jews or i guess the rich just like communists are and just can't stop being obesstive accusing jews. while far leftists will think anyone agreeing we need freespeech is a nazi.
(DIR) Post #9k0hYlcztqlf5rcYLY by qtd3n@kawen.space
2019-06-19T16:35:21.782582Z
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@1iceloops123 @kaniini @CyReVolt @ben @thatbrickster The left has been doing that since the year 1930. The Frankfurt School's primary objective was uncovering why exactly there was a turn to the right as opposed to the traditional Hegelian idea of positive and forward realization of freedom. In fact, only the left has been willing to admit that consciousness in society arises due to definite material conditions, rather than history being driven by a battle of ideas.
(DIR) Post #9k0iFv46gitIoZsTU8 by 1iceloops123@shitposter.club
2019-06-19T16:45:02.932577Z
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@qtd3n @CyReVolt @ben @kaniini @thatbrickster but then again the techonocrats control everything now like facebook and google then both political sides will cry omg i'm banned from facebook or whatever
(DIR) Post #9k0nMU4Px89wtByMNc by r@freesoftwareextremist.com
2019-06-19T17:42:09.694220Z
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@ben @sir oxygen is nazi enabler, stop breathing
(DIR) Post #9k1G8zKVpZn8SJPxVg by HerraBRE@mastodon.xyz
2019-06-19T23:04:05Z
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@sir I am going to respectfully disagree.For various reasons, apps may legitimately include logic preventing undesirable or dangerous use.Such as the rm command "misbehaving" when you try and run `rm -rf /`.Or browsers blacklisting TLS certificates with "insecure" algorithms or from "non-compliant" cert issuers.An app whose main purpose is to participate in a social network is justified in, by default, preventing actions deemed antisocial by the community it serves.IMO, obviously. 😉
(DIR) Post #9k1HKdi88TikpnaIF6 by Ethancdavenport@retro.social
2019-06-19T23:17:22Z
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@sir Rickroll all nazisDeplatform all nazisPunch all nazisThe purity of your software philosophy is not more important than protecting marginalized people from fascists
(DIR) Post #9k1lp0oFohahmoqc8u by _emacsomancer@linuxrocks.online
2019-06-20T04:58:56Z
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@sir Freedom of the user to use software as they wish is inalienable, but that's not the same as demanding that developers have to cater to user wishes. That's not taking away freedom.
(DIR) Post #9k2qK0i6pTAhQlyCLg by frank87@mastodon.pirateparty.be
2019-06-20T10:55:34Z
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@thatbricksterBy the way: Fedilab blocks gab too. And it really broke when I tested that.@qtd3n @ben @CyReVolt
(DIR) Post #9k2qK0xLunMgC36N6m by thatbrickster@aria.company
2019-06-20T17:24:49.370183Z
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@frank87 I think they reversed that decision recently.
(DIR) Post #9kBXOsmdZyT1aTKxNI by ZacharyHerold@mathstodon.xyz
2019-06-23T11:44:57Z
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@ben @sir Software should be politically neutral. Imagine if linux mint shut down immediately when you went on the wikipdia page for Communism. Would it be free software? No, it would be taking user freedoms away with antifeatures, just like @Tusky has.
(DIR) Post #9kBXOsxcv7G28YTjVI by ben@mastodon.lubar.me
2019-06-23T13:19:19Z
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@ZacharyHerold @sir @TuskyYou do realize that you're defending literal nazis, right?I'm pretty sure you do, and that's what scares me.
(DIR) Post #9kBXOtEzsX9V0QbbZw by ZacharyHerold@mathstodon.xyz
2019-06-23T14:29:21Z
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@ben @sir @Tusky That's a malicious way of stating my intentions. Nazi freedom is not the reason I want free speech. It's for me and my non-nazi point of views. You're deliberately painting me as a nazi independent of my actual views, without responding to my actual arguments.
(DIR) Post #9kBXOtOvHd5lVDFX3A by maloki@elekk.xyz
2019-06-24T10:08:40Z
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@ZacharyHerold We came to Mastodon because it was advertised as "No Nazis" That's why we're fucking here. And we'll keep trying to uphold that for as long as we can, and with whatever tools we find, and in this case, all core team of Tusky agreed that this was what we wanted, because we wanted to uphold that political stance. We don't want no fucking nazis, and if you defend them you're part of the problem. If you don't realize why it's a problem you got some reading to do@ben @sir @Tusky
(DIR) Post #9kBXOtZCfPJc163k4e by ZacharyHerold@mathstodon.xyz
2019-06-24T10:31:41Z
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@maloki @ben @sir @Tusky That's not why I came to Mastodon. Mastodon is a politically neutral concept, which has been vastly adopted by leftists. I don't have a problem with that. But see this from my point of view: fascists call me leftist and communist, and leftists call me fascist and a Nazi, so I feel just as much threat from either. Therefore, I want the technology to be politically neutral, so I am safe.
(DIR) Post #9kBXOttlQxlJ2rgA7c by maloki@elekk.xyz
2019-06-24T10:36:48Z
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@ZacharyHerold But like what are you even basing that Mastodon was politically neutral on? Is this just your wishful thinking? You do realize that leftists aren't looking to kill people who don't think like them, while far-right tend to want the rest of us dead, right? If you feel that it's threatening that people call you a nazi, maybe you don't know what a real threat is?@ben @sir @Tusky
(DIR) Post #9kBXOuCCKQVVy2Isr2 by ignaloidas@mastodon.gamedev.place
2019-06-24T22:03:33Z
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@maloki @ZacharyHerold @ben @sir @Tusky Far left exists as much as far right. If you are going to go to as far as nazis killing ppl, then you will encounter leftists killing ppl. The fact that one side was more prominently in control in one time doesn't change the fact that far-left can kill as much as far-right.