Post 9jnabie4DkqPyf6QIS by clacke@libranet.de
(DIR) More posts by clacke@libranet.de
(DIR) Post #9jmxA6VW0pIdfCwZiy by clacke@libranet.de
2019-06-13T01:25:52Z
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pleroma.fr/objects/7962be44-6dā¦ā² @macgirvin@pleroma.fr: Zap 2.16 releasedIf you think privacy is stupid and love spammers and online harrassmentand storing your entire online existence on an unreliable server run by a high school kid, Zap probably isn't for you.zotlabs.com/zap - project overviewframagit.org/zot/zap - get the code[reposted to correct link]
(DIR) Post #9jmzj4vs3ke0p54nA0 by gemlog@mastodonten.de
2019-06-13T01:54:42Z
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@clacke I would like to point out that a "high school kid" was the official maintainer of linux 2.4...It's a meritocracy here for the most part. Age-ism can go both ways.
(DIR) Post #9jn38yNlKpjLtqA40W by AceNovo@kitty.town
2019-06-13T02:32:59Z
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@clackeOh, gods. If anyone cared, "...then Zap probably isn't for you," would be a memeIf you don't like whiny, opinionated tech bros...If you think libertarianism is nonsense...ActivityPub has issues and the specific implementations we have, even more so, but the community is here and here for reasons. Nobody can design a useful service structure for the community without understanding that or successfully promote one without demonstrating that understanding
(DIR) Post #9jnKuc8T37Li1WJHrU by clacke@libranet.de
2019-06-13T05:51:31Z
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@AceNovo I believe the barb is aimed at FB, not the Fediverse.
(DIR) Post #9jnMi1wG0EC8C5j4ts by heluecht@pirati.ca
2019-06-13T06:11:12Z
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@clacke @AceNovo it is aimed at the AP based Fediverse as well. Mike has got the opinion that you should be be in full control over who can comment your posts, even your public ones (when I understood him correctly).In fact this possibility has got two sides. I do see the advantages over the disadvantages so I like the current model.
(DIR) Post #9jnRv7LLidKsUYWSVk by AceNovo@kitty.town
2019-06-13T07:10:32Z
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@heluecht@clackeHere's a screenshot of the thread at https://pleroma.fr/notice/9jUdvjPR3EbHyu8360He's entitled to his opinions, but damn! Have fun with that Gordon Ramsay vibe. I don't want to see the community that creates
(DIR) Post #9jnViPi6WFTJVZMcIi by cj@mastodon.technology
2019-06-13T07:53:06Z
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@AceNovo @heluecht @clacke Wonder who the "they" is....
(DIR) Post #9jnY41U5TIXUeSEtqy by clacke@libranet.de
2019-06-13T08:19:28Z
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@cj @AceNovo @heluecht As the thread/rant starts with "In 2010 I left Facebook and set out to build a decentralised alternative.", I don't see any reason to feel attacked unless one thinks it is an accurate description of what one is building, or one identifies with fb.pleroma.fr/notice/9jmZwMIzXBM7ā¦
(DIR) Post #9jnYcpScARbhUo9CAC by clacke@libranet.de
2019-06-13T08:25:45Z
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@AceNovo @cj @heluecht Ok, correction, AP explicitly included. I made a mistake. Sorry. This thread was a bad take, more aggro than I first read into it.pleroma.fr/notice/9jWFbWH0Ai64ā¦>> any activitypub and/or ostatus support?> As soon as they start supporting privacy and mobility and STOP permitting spam and harrassment by default. Until then, the answer is no. If federation with spammy and insecure protocols is something you think is important, Zap probably isn't for you.
(DIR) Post #9jnZCnUqwkQNpWLTFo by ericbuijs@fosstodon.org
2019-06-13T08:32:05Z
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@clacke Mike has a habit of abandoning his projects (Hubzilla, Friendica, Osada). I was an Osada user until Mike decided to stop development for it. I don't care about zap and the strong opinions of Mike if he changes his mind about social networks this often. To be reliable is as important as the privacy that one promises.
(DIR) Post #9jnZreqk05zssv4DXU by AceNovo@kitty.town
2019-06-13T08:39:36Z
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@clacke@cj@mastodon.technology@heluechtI don't feel attacked. I see aggression and chest beating from that direction in ActivityPub venues occasionally. He's very good at being intolerable in socially tolerated waysI've been in groups where consensus building isn't possible because of egos like that. Sat through 9 years of it once before building the damn thing myselfSkipping the 9 years sitting through it, this time. Too old for that
(DIR) Post #9jnaXr3d0CgeuRDRom by heluecht@pirati.ca
2019-06-13T08:46:59Z
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@AceNovo @clacke I don't feel attacked as well. He has got his (very strong) opinion and he doesn't get personal, so this is no attack to a person at all. I the topic different - but this also is my own opinion and no personal attack at all.
(DIR) Post #9jnabiTmpycZSmIDGy by bob@soc.freedombone.net
2019-06-13T08:44:07.410018Z
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@ericbuijs @clacke It's not so much abandonment as continuation. He always seems to start off with the previous codebase and then take it in a different direction with a different name. I suppose this avoids the outcry of changed user interface or unexpected functionality.
(DIR) Post #9jnabie4DkqPyf6QIS by clacke@libranet.de
2019-06-13T08:47:53Z
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@bob On the plus side, it means e.g. friendica is run as a friendly and facilitation-seeking project with no outbursts like this. š
(DIR) Post #9jnaqTa8VaNRbRIhhg by heluecht@pirati.ca
2019-06-13T08:50:04Z
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@ericbuijs @clacke AFAIK there is a continuous development of Hubzilla, and I can say that Friendica develops very well. So you could see his way of work like planting a tree and then look for others to take care of it, if people are interested in it.
(DIR) Post #9jnardGnyPh9wKoHZI by clacke@libranet.de
2019-06-13T08:50:32Z
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We should be so lucky that more strong front figures abandon their baby projects for the user community to manage. š
(DIR) Post #9jnaxRnXXTmm66tVZY by clacke@libranet.de
2019-06-13T08:51:24Z
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I should have said "raise".
(DIR) Post #9jngYDsYkgizPib6LQ by bob@soc.freedombone.net
2019-06-13T09:03:49.807917Z
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@clacke @gemlog @AceNovo @heluecht @cj @ericbuijs I think Mike has been right about a lot of stuff. Nomadic identity and detailed interaction controls in Hubzilla and Zap were years ahead of anything else. ActivityPub was successful but failed to take onboard the lessons from previous federated socnets and consequently has major limitations when it comes to keeping harassers away. Perhaps there could be a second version of ActivityPub which is more like Zot.
(DIR) Post #9jngYE2q8SwpvbPJMu by cj@mastodon.technology
2019-06-13T09:54:09Z
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@bob @ericbuijs @AceNovo @clacke @gemlog @heluecht ActivityPub encompasses 2 different layers that different innovations can occur at: byte-transmission and vocabulary+side-effects.However I have serious doubts that impls have made this distinction (go-fed tries but is not entirely successful) for ease of future growth. I think innovating at byte-transmission level is going to cause lots of interop problems
(DIR) Post #9jngmWLassOYkKznbk by heluecht@pirati.ca
2019-06-13T09:56:47Z
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@bob I don't think that it is so easy. Software mostly has to balance between usability and complexity. Mastodon/Pleroma/... are noch very complex, thus easy to use. Software like Hubzilla is really complex, thus it is complicated for users to find all the config settings so that the system works as intended.When AP would inherit the persmission model from Zot, I guess that the whole complexity would be a problem. Additionally I think that one of the winning points of AP is that you can interact with public posts at every time.
(DIR) Post #9jnh8WqbhlfSfVzpJo by heluecht@pirati.ca
2019-06-13T10:00:47Z
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@cj @AceNovo @bob @clacke @ericbuijs @gemlog Do you speak of the differences between the transport layer and the payload?
(DIR) Post #9jnkXNJIbJlwBvxJtA by ericbuijs@fosstodon.org
2019-06-13T10:39:10Z
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@heluechtI can agree with the planting trees argument. In that case Mike can be considered a pioneer that others can (and are) take advantage of.@bob @clacke
(DIR) Post #9jnkqqGBBtSHTmmN6G by yaaps@banana.dog
2019-06-13T10:42:27Z
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@cjAre these good examples?You have media your service could store using Dat, but you still have S3 compatible storage because 2 million Mastodon users can only download it over HTTP (byte transmission)You want a transition strategy, so you give the object 2 IDs and put them in an array so implementations can choose. Some implementations request "both" objects. Others store and ignore (vocab+side effects)@bob @ericbuijs@clacke @gemlog @heluecht
(DIR) Post #9jo5xS1xlsUDOk7eAC by mike@firebreathingduck.io
2019-06-13T14:38:31Z
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@ericbuijs @clacke I think he's right that the spam and trolling risk for existing federated social networks is high.The question is whether a serious redesign is needed to deal with it, or whether existing federated social networks can evolve.If you need redesigns of core concepts, then you have no choice but to start over.
(DIR) Post #9jo6knMzDnuJlmU880 by heluecht@pirati.ca
2019-06-13T14:47:21Z
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@mike @clacke @ericbuijs Friendica does have individual blocking and ignoring of a contact (by every user), global blocking of a contact (admin setting) and blocking of a whole instance (admin setting). Until now this had been enough.
(DIR) Post #9jo79dfgPvu6vj4o4m by mike@firebreathingduck.io
2019-06-13T14:52:36Z
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@heluecht @clacke @ericbuijs Right. Mastodon has the same, and for now it's sufficient. But if 50 million people are on Friendica or Mastodon, a spammer might use ten thousand domains they already own for junk mail purposes to create instances and blast us with ads. Manually fighting that is impractical.Maybe we'll eventually be forced to a model of block all by default, selectively allow per-instance or per-user.
(DIR) Post #9joAwzLKvjwKCDmbEu by heluecht@pirati.ca
2019-06-13T15:34:46Z
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@mike @clacke @ericbuijs I guess that this situation won't evolve over night, so I will think about it, when we are on the way towards it.