Post 9jkMAONNUXRWSjUYu8 by jack@pl.lust.works
(DIR) More posts by jack@pl.lust.works
(DIR) Post #9jkGBkNqYPVJHYySDA by thj@mastodon.cloud
2019-06-10T16:40:17Z
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One thing that makes measuring Ritalin's effect somewhat challenging is that you get used to it.I suspect that if I spent a week not taking Ritalin, I'd be bothered by it. Not so much because of the relatively mild abstinences, but because of the new awareness I have of what my symptoms are, and how much they get in the way.
(DIR) Post #9jkGBkc1hgqXzXbmJU by werekat@mastodon.acc.sunet.se
2019-06-11T12:15:34Z
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@thj Yeah. You're in what is known as 'the honeymoon phase', where effects are easily apparent and noticeable. It passes. It's kind of like wearing glasses in that at some point you actually get used to having decent working memory and other symptoms resolved and forget how bad it was before. Ideally, medication is not felt at all - except you somehow don't fuck up more than a normal person.
(DIR) Post #9jkGBkn12pdYXckYRU by thj@mastodon.cloud
2019-06-11T12:21:18Z
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@werekat I remember how I was 8 years ago. I was even worse than now. It's been a few years now and I'm still glad I'm not like I was in my late 20s. Gradual brain development into my mid-30s seems to have reduced the symptoms a bit. I was a terrible mess in young adulthood.
(DIR) Post #9jkGBkz4K1HJ90OBEG by werekat@mastodon.acc.sunet.se
2019-06-11T12:22:53Z
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@thj That's pretty normal, yeah.
(DIR) Post #9jkGBlGRHRAm0sW3Iu by thj@mastodon.cloud
2019-06-11T12:25:25Z
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@werekat I've been researching ADD on and off since about 2010 when I first got interested in it. I read a ton about it at one point. Tried getting treatment in 2011, then gave up, tried again in 2014, then gave up.And I had gastric bypass surgery in 2018. It, too, has a honeymoon period...
(DIR) Post #9jkGBlUGS2EQhkz5qy by thj@mastodon.cloud
2019-06-11T12:25:50Z
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@werekat I mean, you get used to everything. At the moment, I'm not sure if Ritalin's right for me though.
(DIR) Post #9jkGBletoUjrEjxaQi by thj@mastodon.cloud
2019-06-11T12:26:22Z
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@werekat It's right at very specific blood plasma levels, but wrong at all others...
(DIR) Post #9jkGBlqb7061p1QvfE by thj@mastodon.cloud
2019-06-11T12:27:31Z
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@werekat ...and there doesn't seem to be a 15 mg Ritalin LA capsule. Only 10 and 20 mg. 10 is too little and 20 is... hm... I crash when it goes up and crash again when it goes down because there are peaks at 1,5 and 6 hours that overpower me a bit and my symptoms actually get worse.
(DIR) Post #9jkGBm44Ius6Unjgf2 by werekat@mastodon.acc.sunet.se
2019-06-11T12:28:05Z
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@thj Which brand? As I said, the generics and Concerta have different release mechanisms.
(DIR) Post #9jkGBmDdjKWmyUDKa0 by thj@mastodon.cloud
2019-06-11T12:28:16Z
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@werekat This is Novartis Ritalin.
(DIR) Post #9jkGBmRosbs1gSqegK by thj@mastodon.cloud
2019-06-11T12:28:33Z
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@werekat Ritalin as in Ritalin(TM).
(DIR) Post #9jkGBmc6GO5sCLerho by thj@mastodon.cloud
2019-06-11T12:30:38Z
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@werekat The Ritalin LA version, i.e. extended release. This is a blood plasma concentration curve for Ritalin LA (and also for plain Ritalin taken 4 hours apart). I find that I crash at the 1,5 and 6 hour mark, i.e. exactly at the peaks, and that I'm perfect at between 3 and 5 hours after taking it, which is that slope between the peaks.
(DIR) Post #9jkGBmkbkktocjdey0 by werekat@mastodon.acc.sunet.se
2019-06-11T12:32:49Z
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@thj Yes, I'm looking at the tech specs. Ask your doctor about Concerta: it has a distinctly different release profile - and also has 18mg doses, which is 9 and 9 effectively, with the latter 9 being released slowly.
(DIR) Post #9jkGBmtTDnzL4DmjmS by werekat@mastodon.acc.sunet.se
2019-06-11T12:33:37Z
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@thj Basically, different extended release brands have different doses and different ratios of what is released immediately and what is released throughout the day. Titration process ho. :P
(DIR) Post #9jkGBn2Kgr4rVhvoau by thj@mastodon.cloud
2019-06-11T12:35:13Z
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@werekat Titration is used as a metaphor here, right? It seems to be a term from chemistry.
(DIR) Post #9jkGBnBC9uANxC4tPM by thj@mastodon.cloud
2019-06-11T12:35:48Z
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@werekat I assume it means finding the sweet spot. I mean, too high feels bad, and so does too low, so it's a bit weird like that... Many other drugs just work better if you up them...
(DIR) Post #9jkGBnJheGyKNa3gfY by thj@mastodon.cloud
2019-06-11T12:37:12Z
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@werekat If 1 to 5 are Ritalin blood concentrations of some level, I find that they behave like this:1 - nothing2 - bad3 - PERFECT4 - bad5 - awfulSoooo hard to maintain the 3.
(DIR) Post #9jkGBnQnDudwjZNLii by werekat@mastodon.acc.sunet.se
2019-06-11T12:39:49Z
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@thj It's a known effect. I like to think that it is why ADHD drugs don't work as, well, concentration drugs for healthy people, despite all the hype. :P
(DIR) Post #9jkGBnWSspBF1A1sYq by thj@mastodon.cloud
2019-06-11T12:40:58Z
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@werekat Yeah, I don't know why they claim ADHD drugs would work for normal people. I mean, yes, in the sense that you get high and hyper, but that's actually a terrible mode for concentration. What you want is calm and orderly.
(DIR) Post #9jkGBndCTmZHM3BG3k by werekat@mastodon.acc.sunet.se
2019-06-11T12:41:40Z
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@thj The current consensus is that it's mostly a placebo effect, and in reality your concentration is worsened.
(DIR) Post #9jkGBnkI3QEti2Uv6u by thj@mastodon.cloud
2019-06-11T12:45:11Z
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@werekat I mean, they claim that it's a myth that ADHD drugs don't work on regular people......but I can't make sense of it. I mean, when I smoke pot or drink alcohol, there is a steady increase in effect. It doesn't drastically flip around at a specific blood level...I strongly doubt that a normal person has a point where Ritalin "snaps them in place" and they feel *calmer* than before. It just seems unlikely to me...
(DIR) Post #9jkGBnsnXn2q8QTiN6 by thj@mastodon.cloud
2019-06-11T12:49:54Z
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@werekat It's even so consistent that, when that 2nd peak has passed and the concentration starts falling rapidly, I briefly start feeling better again as it hits the ideal level on the way down.Until I see the psychiatrist again, what I'm going to do is to use the data to try to align the bad spots with times of the day when it doesn't matter that I'm out of action.
(DIR) Post #9jkGVBLMXeVUOo4z8S by werekat@mastodon.acc.sunet.se
2019-06-11T12:37:55Z
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@thj It's the technical term for the process of fine-tuning the dosage and and time period between dose administration. The term is found throughout the technical literature - it's very strange that you haven't stumbled over it if you've been doing research for a while. Of course it's from chemistry - what you're doing now is, well, chemistry. Definitely not a metaphor.
(DIR) Post #9jkGVBVzu70uvn3TiC by thj@mastodon.cloud
2019-06-11T12:38:28Z
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@werekat Oh, but here's the thing. Research on ADD, yes. Research on medicating it? Almost none.
(DIR) Post #9jkGVBi3BIefXAh6Uy by thj@mastodon.cloud
2019-06-11T12:38:57Z
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@werekat Why nerd over medication if you can't get it? That's just torture.
(DIR) Post #9jkGVBtOV7jG6M0ABE by thj@mastodon.cloud
2019-06-11T12:39:57Z
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@werekat Now that I have it, the nerding has commenced......but I find that Google's kind of not great at providing super good information about it. Too much blog spam.I miss how Google was in 2008-2012. It worked great...
(DIR) Post #9jkGVC4NqGWGeR8wJE by werekat@mastodon.acc.sunet.se
2019-06-11T12:45:06Z
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@thj Look for Sandra Kooij on LibGen. Her clinical manual is downright the best thing I've read on the subject.
(DIR) Post #9jkGVCCXLx2d3ixS1A by werekat@mastodon.acc.sunet.se
2019-06-11T12:48:52Z
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@thj Also: Joseph Sadek (clinical manuals), Nancy Ratey (this is for coping strats), Gina Pera (also coping strats/life), Thomas Brown (emotional disregulation).
(DIR) Post #9jkGVCNAiPY3ahvwau by thj@mastodon.cloud
2019-06-11T12:50:38Z
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@werekat Thanks. I'll copy this for safe keeping.
(DIR) Post #9jkGVCaduKK8GUEhai by thj@mastodon.cloud
2019-06-11T12:54:41Z
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@werekat I'm relatively fortunate in being equipped with fairly good introspection. People who have a long conversation with me for the first time will often point that out to me.I know I have an emotional dysregulation issue. It took some time to admit. Of course. Because admitting that you're a bit hysterical isn't fun. Guys are supposed to have composure.I find that I have composure in the sweet spot. Very good composure.I thought I had an anxiety problem.
(DIR) Post #9jkGVCjVNNPehyNmPA by thj@mastodon.cloud
2019-06-11T12:55:03Z
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@werekat In a way, I do have an anxiety problem, but it's secondary, not primary, because it evaporates when the Ritalin is working right.
(DIR) Post #9jkGVCsMqQVB9SWrDc by werekat@mastodon.acc.sunet.se
2019-06-11T13:00:15Z
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@thj Also pretty normal stuff - and one of the things that masks diagnosis. Doctors think the patient is being anxious for no good reason (because there isn't an external reason to be anxious), while the patient knows things go wrong and can neither predict nor control when they will (because the hallmark of ADHD is inconsistency).
(DIR) Post #9jkGVD1wGq9rd90V8a by thj@mastodon.cloud
2019-06-11T13:00:58Z
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@werekat You wanna be clear about what you mean by "normal". I assume you mean "normal for ADHD".
(DIR) Post #9jkGVDFPSkvwIvJG8O by werekat@mastodon.acc.sunet.se
2019-06-11T13:01:32Z
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@thj Well, you obviously got my meaning, so I'm assuming the communication was clear enough. :P
(DIR) Post #9jkGVDRSjwZguIwsvA by thj@mastodon.cloud
2019-06-11T13:01:44Z
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@werekat I was a bit unsure earlier actually.
(DIR) Post #9jkGVDagBfwnMtGFHs by thj@mastodon.cloud
2019-06-11T13:02:54Z
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@werekat None of this is normal for me. It's almost upsetting to hear it described as normal, because people around me aren't like this, and I've perceived all of these things as personality quirks for as long as I can remember.
(DIR) Post #9jkGVDjBg2kjnHF2Y4 by thj@mastodon.cloud
2019-06-11T13:05:15Z
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@werekat Meaning that I've let them define me to some extent. It's somewhat jarring to suddenly be in a position where it's "just the ADHD". I mean, it's good that it can be fixed, but it's also a bit like... You know how, if a 5 year old throws a tantrum, you say "that's normal", but for the 5 year old, it's still a big deal? That's kind of how this is for me.
(DIR) Post #9jkGVDsP7m7qFrYOum by thj@mastodon.cloud
2019-06-11T13:07:00Z
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@werekat I mean, I guess what I'm saying is that it makes me feel less interesting as a person or something.
(DIR) Post #9jkGclRIjkWUNKTMe0 by thj@mastodon.cloud
2019-06-11T13:07:52Z
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@werekat I guess it's a bit like how some blind people wouldn't want their eyesight back because it's a part of them now?
(DIR) Post #9jkGclYkI4TgkPxJFQ by thj@mastodon.cloud
2019-06-11T13:08:36Z
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@werekat And at age 36, when you're kind of starting to settle in your ways, it's rather unsettling to suddenly have the ground moving underneath you again.
(DIR) Post #9jkGclndOiO5UavCSG by thj@mastodon.cloud
2019-06-11T13:09:44Z
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@werekat Or to put it in yet another way, my ego is taking a bit of a hit, because I had kind of got to the point where I had built up a story where some of these traits were "good" in a way.
(DIR) Post #9jkGclycjrB62g3yaG by thj@mastodon.cloud
2019-06-11T13:12:26Z
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@werekat I'm kind of starting to pick up the pieces because I have to redefine who I am now. So incredibly weird. Like a violent rebirth.
(DIR) Post #9jkGljpe5AMTzq8emW by thj@mastodon.cloud
2019-06-11T18:21:29Z
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@byllgrim @werekat
(DIR) Post #9jkIMhnKigPqLYFS4G by thj@mastodon.cloud
2019-06-11T18:39:30Z
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@byllgrim @werekat I have done such tracking for a few other things before. I mean, it helps to turn it into a science experiment. Not sure I could've managed this kind of thing 10 years ago, though. Again, I think something has happened gradually in my early 30s without any intervention (other than self-help) that made me somewhat more level-headed and focused. Maybe it was the self-administered cognitive behaviour therapy I've been doing.
(DIR) Post #9jkIVaA2THNXHF6Lom by thj@mastodon.cloud
2019-06-11T18:22:10Z
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@byllgrim @werekat Currently having a concentration peak. The chatter/music in my brain is completely absent and I'm talking and thinking calmly.
(DIR) Post #9jkIgVrMnrIZ7fa0qO by thj@mastodon.cloud
2019-06-11T18:43:06Z
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@byllgrim @werekat Please finish that ADHD screening test I gave you. Don't dwell too long on the questions. Just answer according to how true they feel, honestly.If you have lots of checkmarks in the gray areas, then please, for the love of god, get yourself assessed for ADHD. It's the most important thing you'll do in your life.
(DIR) Post #9jkIlUOffYwm29WxW4 by jack@pl.lust.works
2019-06-11T18:27:29.210532Z
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@thj @werekat @byllgrim excellent records. You remind me of myself when I started treatment.
(DIR) Post #9jkIlUy7XlIro67Gls by thj@mastodon.cloud
2019-06-11T18:29:45Z
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@jack @werekat @byllgrim I have to do this, otherwise it's difficult to actually assess if it's working. The graphs help a lot actually, since they tell a story. The fact that they move so fluidly now tells me that I've finally got the parameters I'm tracking right.But there's one parameter I want to tweak still.I'm thinking of replacing one of the parameters with a "Willingness to perform a short but terribly dull task" test.
(DIR) Post #9jkIlVCefivgXAusQS by jack@pl.lust.works
2019-06-11T18:32:01.741431Z
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@thj @byllgrim @werekat that’s a good one. I can’t read all of it, so I don’t know what you’re tracking exactly, but I can probably tell you a few to add as a long term medication user.
(DIR) Post #9jkIlVLW8m1Cyf3xEu by thj@mastodon.cloud
2019-06-11T18:33:31Z
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@jack @werekat @byllgrim I'll translate the score axes for you:Passive-DeterminedBabbling-QuietShaking-SteadyFrustrated-ResolvedCraving-FineTired-AwakeDrugged-SoberHeadache-Painfree
(DIR) Post #9jkIqHZwkpRFj85epE by thj@mastodon.cloud
2019-06-11T18:44:52Z
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@byllgrim @jack @werekat The first 3 or 4 are basically ADHD symptoms. The rest are side effects of wrongly dosed Ritalin.
(DIR) Post #9jkIze6yLcTwDW0DpI by thj@mastodon.cloud
2019-06-11T18:41:15Z
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@byllgrim @werekat Sometime around 2014, I learned about CBT and it sounded ridiculous. "Just tell myself realistic things when I have bad thoughts, and I will feel better?"But, since things couldn't get worse, I began to try it.it didn't work at all for the first few weeks. Felt like a waste to fight the "terrible truth of my life".But gradually, I actually noticed that my inner hysterical/neurotic voice started to give in.
(DIR) Post #9jkJH0It5hLxy3qvmi by jack@pl.lust.works
2019-06-11T18:47:09.365708Z
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@thj @werekat @byllgrim I felt the same way about CBT. It sounded like it went against everything I knew about the brain. But it’s not playing make believe. You can seriously improve with CBT. Hell, at the very least, it shifts attitude to a healthy one.
(DIR) Post #9jkJH0Y8B1XwjKz6Xo by ihavebigtits@kawen.space
2019-06-11T18:49:43.590245Z
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@jack @thj @byllgrim @werekat CBT can help but it's often used as a catch all when people need different types of therapy, specifically trauma victims. It can even make it worse for some people if it doesn't address the actual issue.
(DIR) Post #9jkJIx8nowBMjp45Me by druid@yorishiro.space
2019-06-11T18:50:04.324566Z
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@ihavebigtits @jack @byllgrim @thj @werekat jesus christ i really thought you meant the other cbt
(DIR) Post #9jkJNomaK9qyGMzbf6 by ihavebigtits@kawen.space
2019-06-11T18:50:57.344176Z
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@druid @byllgrim @jack @thj @werekat Cock and ball torture can help, but it's often done to people who would prefer different sexual acts. It can even make it worse for people with sensitive genitals.
(DIR) Post #9jkJOuWeSPVqMe3qGe by thj@mastodon.cloud
2019-06-11T18:51:01Z
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@ihavebigtits @werekat @byllgrim @jack This is true. My real issue was probably ADHD. But, since I was not organised enough to get help for that, the CBT did help me stay afloat and retain a healthy attitude.
(DIR) Post #9jkJS0CPorPOpU4ONk by druid@yorishiro.space
2019-06-11T18:51:43.197198Z
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@ihavebigtits @byllgrim @jack @thj @werekat That's scary and erotic with that icon, naomi
(DIR) Post #9jkJZsrky4RGP1AIZU by ihavebigtits@kawen.space
2019-06-11T18:53:08.518643Z
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@druid @byllgrim @jack @thj @werekat I'm glad my avi captures my energy
(DIR) Post #9jkJbViM13vjB6XiRE by thj@mastodon.cloud
2019-06-11T18:53:05Z
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@ihavebigtits @druid @byllgrim @jack @werekat I'm definitely not in the reflective/intuitive mode at the moment. It took longer than usual to notice the joke about the initialism. My frame of mind gets very dry and logical.I'm not sure if it's even possible for me to get into a playful mood when the Ritalin is working at its best. Humour and play just seem so inconsequential when I'm in that mode.
(DIR) Post #9jkJbVqVWkS5aOME9A by ihavebigtits@kawen.space
2019-06-11T18:53:25.584669Z
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@thj @werekat @jack @byllgrim @druid Dang, that sounds scary
(DIR) Post #9jkKAOuXIrtKDFsUE4 by thj@mastodon.cloud
2019-06-11T18:59:42Z
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@byllgrim @ihavebigtits @druid @jack @werekat Yes, it does make me very Data. Very very Data.
(DIR) Post #9jkMANjfs9gSTaur1E by thj@mastodon.cloud
2019-06-11T19:00:22Z
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@byllgrim @ihavebigtits @druid @jack @werekat But... certain things can still make me laugh. They just need to be very witty or absurd.
(DIR) Post #9jkMANufDITT1g3d9E by thj@mastodon.cloud
2019-06-11T19:01:38Z
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@byllgrim @ihavebigtits @druid @jack @werekat I suspect this would be a good mode for watching classic Simpsons episodes. I find that when I'm close to Data mode but not 100% there, I make up scenarios that sound like they could be from The Simpsons.
(DIR) Post #9jkMAO9uIcfRmxBnuK by thj@mastodon.cloud
2019-06-11T19:04:22Z
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@byllgrim @ihavebigtits @druid @jack @werekat The other day, we walked past a kindergarden and we saw a kind of big mesh of ropes in a kid's playground, and I told my roommate..."Imagine they installed that and then the day after there'll be dead kids entangled it... then a crow will fly by and peck out the eyes and fly away... and the principal will be like... Well... We could've thought that one through better."
(DIR) Post #9jkMAONNUXRWSjUYu8 by jack@pl.lust.works
2019-06-11T19:07:55.975242Z
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@thj @werekat @druid @ihavebigtits @byllgrim that’s quite darkly details to express aloud. For most people. That’s definitely something id note. Anhedonia is more common than any other side effect. But, due to its nature, few report it. Watch for things like that.
(DIR) Post #9jkMAObucV4LBoIAYi by thj@mastodon.cloud
2019-06-11T19:08:50Z
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@jack @ihavebigtits @werekat @byllgrim @druid I have an old friend who would joke like that quite frequently. But it's done in a kind of fast and cartoony way so it's funny. That's what this was like.
(DIR) Post #9jkMAOmC0HIBhh6NaC by thj@mastodon.cloud
2019-06-11T19:09:14Z
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@jack @ihavebigtits @werekat @byllgrim @druid It's like Don Hertzfeld cartoons. They have those really funny dark moments.
(DIR) Post #9jkMAOybG9DWKAuHvE by thj@mastodon.cloud
2019-06-11T19:10:57Z
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@jack @ihavebigtits @werekat @byllgrim @druid You're not supposed to laugh but the execution is just so funny.Something very dark can suddenly be hilarious because of a little thing that happens just afterwards.For example, there was this cartoon I saw on YouTube that ended with a seagull greedily trying to swallow a Pringles can... and then it died, and that was just funny."Yes, of course the greedy thing is going to try to swallow th... HAHAHAHAHA"
(DIR) Post #9jkMAPBMUhQQxksToW by thj@mastodon.cloud
2019-06-11T19:13:53Z
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@jack @ihavebigtits @werekat @byllgrim @druid I'm not too concerned about it, really. You're only getting one sample. There are other cases where it's unexpected in other ways.But again, it's the kind of humour me and my old classmate used to laugh ourselves to bits at.I mean, the Simpsons is full of this kind of thing, ESPECIALLY with the dark details. Family Guy takes it even further.
(DIR) Post #9jkMAPLzr9vrUjqyOG by thj@mastodon.cloud
2019-06-11T19:15:13Z
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@jack @ihavebigtits @werekat @byllgrim @druid I mention that particular one because it stood out to me.I think it's the kind of humour you get when you don't feel terribly schmaltzy or sentimental.
(DIR) Post #9jkMAPbavAPQH79Qhc by jack@pl.lust.works
2019-06-11T19:16:52.469865Z
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@thj @druid @byllgrim @werekat @ihavebigtits it’s true that that is the only example, therefore I have to look at it logically isolated. But anhedonia is a real problem with stimulants. Make sure you know the warning signs.
(DIR) Post #9jkMAPiKW7nSc0IoCW by thj@mastodon.cloud
2019-06-11T19:18:40Z
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@jack @ihavebigtits @werekat @byllgrim @druid Isn't laughing at a joke a pleasurable activity?I mean, the context this joke was told in was with a huge grin on my face, with us both bursting into laughter.I think we were both picturing it in a cartoony way. Not real-life. It wouldn't be funny in live action.
(DIR) Post #9jkMAPqU1oJp1I7JuS by jack@pl.lust.works
2019-06-11T19:21:48.772385Z
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@thj @druid @byllgrim @werekat @ihavebigtits yes, normally. It’s however, people experiencing anhedonia don’t often realize it at all. A good marker is inappropriate comments. You’re example may have been fine. It just reminds me of something to keep an eye on.
(DIR) Post #9jkMAQ2tHgF9dlvEFU by druid@yorishiro.space
2019-06-11T19:22:03.433335Z
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@jack @thj @byllgrim @ihavebigtits @werekat untag pls