Post 9jNbAkWgfOGdpUVxS4 by igeljaeger@the.hedgehoghunter.club
(DIR) More posts by igeljaeger@the.hedgehoghunter.club
(DIR) Post #9jNUJVCuIBp7FHUNk0 by tom79@mastodon.social
2019-05-31T18:34:37Z
2 likes, 8 repeats
To all,I have taken a decision for Gab. I read some of their tweets and learn more about their move.As an app developer, I will always remain neutral. My personal opinion has the same weight that any other users and I will never put it in front of others.The move of Gab is to have Playstore and iTunes apps where their apps were banned. That's why I took the decision to block Gab to don't give them an entry where they were banned with all risks that can bring for the app.
(DIR) Post #9jNUP3xaVdYwTfyWGG by sum@greenish.red
2019-05-31T18:36:05.411092Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@tom79 I understand blocking gab by default. we worry about your app not letting us unlock them.
(DIR) Post #9jNUbc6LOmqBq83UvI by Dielan@letsalllovela.in
2019-05-31T18:38:21.414648Z
5 likes, 2 repeats
@tom79How can we trust you that you won't expand the list of instances you block to include existing instances that people dislike over hearsay? there's a lot of instances that people recommend others block that haven't actually done anything wrong. What's stopping you from adding them to this new blocking feature?
(DIR) Post #9jNV830Av1o6XLdT0K by tom79@mastodon.social
2019-05-31T18:42:43Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@DielanIf a social network makes the same move that gab did to Mastodon because they were banned from Playstore I will act in a same way.It has nothing to do with instances that are not related to a previous social network banned.
(DIR) Post #9jNV83AoHUJX4Kbxa4 by Dielan@letsalllovela.in
2019-05-31T18:44:13.005821Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@tom79This is a good approach. Thank you for being reasonable!
(DIR) Post #9jNWtNZIN3Gjt4CDlg by inditoot@inditoot.com
2019-05-31T19:03:56Z
4 likes, 2 repeats
@tom79 This is how you remain neutral by blocking a instance? 😏
(DIR) Post #9jNWwyYzHSWdUglckS by tom79@mastodon.social
2019-05-31T18:34:50Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
I will try to recompile 1.83.0 with this change (free version on the playstore).
(DIR) Post #9jNWwyg4r6CFqg5Hnc by tom79@mastodon.social
2019-05-31T19:01:00Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
For the free version on Google Play, I will not take time to rebuild an old release like I said. You will get the last one with all new features.
(DIR) Post #9jNXbpIwbpkyeRk4uW by gimbar@chaos.social
2019-05-31T18:39:36Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@tom79That's a good decision!Don't give tools to facists!
(DIR) Post #9jNXbpQk8pzl2dOJ4C by kekuser@freespeech.host
2019-05-31T19:11:58.233040Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@gimbar @tom79 People aren't fascist because they are pro free speech, in the couple of months I have been using gab the number of fascist post I have seen could be counted on one hand.
(DIR) Post #9jNY4P2vJfphbtsIxE by oshwm@mastodon.social
2019-05-31T19:16:21Z
8 likes, 3 repeats
@tom79sounds like mastodon is managed by a bunch of dictators and fascists already, no need to worry about Gab, you're all much worse already.@Dielan
(DIR) Post #9jNY4qyzRtK8FoFYi8 by DashEquals@linuxrocks.online
2019-05-31T19:13:08Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@tom79Will you disable the block in F-Droid?
(DIR) Post #9jNY5p2y8E9oXWZaF6 by igeljaeger@the.hedgehoghunter.club
2019-05-31T19:17:23.513475Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@oshwm @Dielan @tom79 why arent you on pleroma then. Join now!
(DIR) Post #9jNYCfhjGWh9aiu7do by ContainsLiquid@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T18:43:57Z
2 likes, 1 repeats
@tom79I have a question in this matter. I can understand your decision. But is it really that big of a problem that your app can be configured to connect to gab or similar networks? Wouldn't it be the same problem with every Reddit app because you can configure it to show t_D or every chan-browser because it can show /pol/?I am sure that there is more to this issue I am currently not understanding so every bit of additional info about this matter is highly appreciated.
(DIR) Post #9jNYFhI1pLqLNSKFgO by starwall@radical.town
2019-05-31T18:49:38Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@tom79And just like that I've switched.
(DIR) Post #9jNYKdduoXAdVwv3HU by igeljaeger@the.hedgehoghunter.club
2019-05-31T19:20:03.072507Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@tom79 I guess I'll just use firefox for fedi then.
(DIR) Post #9jNYNgmdarRq7jSBcG by kekuser@freespeech.host
2019-05-31T19:20:39.315110Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@tom79 What about on F-droid will you try and decide what people can and cannot say or see on there too?
(DIR) Post #9jNYS5nSXLJirKwCIa by inditoot@inditoot.com
2019-05-31T19:21:24Z
9 likes, 8 repeats
@tom79 Why you even asked in the first place? when you dont give a fuck about user opinion.
(DIR) Post #9jNYX017S8sKNjfOnQ by tom79@mastodon.social
2019-05-31T19:22:18Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@inditootI read comments
(DIR) Post #9jNYaD37SJiXfZ8J2e by tom79@mastodon.social
2019-05-31T19:22:02Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@kekuserNo. I will apply the same rules. But the app is open source so forking it will do the trick.
(DIR) Post #9jNYaz9UbvKurEU4dk by tom79@mastodon.social
2019-05-31T19:18:22Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@DashEqualsYes, I will do that globally as an app dev choice. I won't enter a ban in product flavors.
(DIR) Post #9jNYfUkh43s21P2DrM by inditoot@inditoot.com
2019-05-31T19:23:50Z
4 likes, 0 repeats
@tom79 You should take a look at poll too then. You showed your bias here, you read those comment whome you agree with.
(DIR) Post #9jNYll3ZMFVoKIqm9I by kekuser@freespeech.host
2019-05-31T19:24:59.662191Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@tom79 Yeah I would imagine someone would do that, and because it's free software it isn't so bad because as you say people can just fork it, I still don't agree with your decision, should web browsers block specific websites too because they don't like the content that a very small amount of users post to that site?
(DIR) Post #9jNYpOqxqpiMcegtsW by hyphen@anime.website
2019-05-31T19:25:39.220434Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@igeljaeger uwuez.png
(DIR) Post #9jNZGA0DArrONkmD7Q by tom79@mastodon.social
2019-05-31T19:30:28Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@inditootMany people take time to kindly tell me that the reply of that question is of course a "no" .I personally took a lot of time before making a such hard decision. Being seen like a censorship is not an easy matter, especially when you do respect the freedom of expression. My choice is based on further reading on how and why gab was blocked. I don't want to help them in their move with all risks that I don't deserve.
(DIR) Post #9jNa1y7odZ6FRf88Tg by yolo@anime.website
2019-05-31T19:39:05.878080Z
6 likes, 1 repeats
@tom79 cuckcuckcuckcuckcuckcuckcuckcuckcuckcuckcuckcuck#installtuskyhttps://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.keylesspalace.tusky/#installliterallyanythingelse #misskeyhttps://github.com/syuilo/misskey/blob/develop/docs/setup.en.md
(DIR) Post #9jNatADAQmziHIzyhE by yolo@anime.website
2019-05-31T19:48:43.439367Z
5 likes, 0 repeats
@tom79 @inditoot why'd you make a poll for about 400 people to vote no on only to completely ignore it in favor of comments you're biased towards?you're silly#misskeyhttps://github.com/syuilo/misskey/blob/develop/docs/setup.en.md73174578_p1.jpg
(DIR) Post #9jNb46iTlWteckrYdE by ArdanianRight@freespeechextremist.com
2019-05-31T19:50:44.470557Z
5 likes, 1 repeats
@yolo @inditoot @tom79 Ignoring feedback you don't like is the Mastodon way.
(DIR) Post #9jNbAkWgfOGdpUVxS4 by igeljaeger@the.hedgehoghunter.club
2019-05-31T19:51:54.245359Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@kekuser @gimbar @tom79 save yourself some time and just ignore users from chaos.social. Theyre loco
(DIR) Post #9jNbCLWQbPssrM9eIC by yolo@anime.website
2019-05-31T19:52:12.939653Z
3 likes, 1 repeats
@ArdanianRight @inditoot @tom79 someone needs to make a poll to rename fedilab back to mastalab so i can vote yes on it
(DIR) Post #9jNbPYcRDgKLFAGVrk by daisuke@stereophonic.space
2019-05-31T19:29:08.892777Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@tom79 Too bad! you app was the only one that worked on my obsolete android tablet. I do not agree someone making decisions for me.
(DIR) Post #9jNcl2XRH7oi4XjbgO by kekuser@freespeech.host
2019-05-31T20:09:41.059381Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@tom79 @inditoot Gab is blocked because they don't censor unless whats expressed is against the law in the United States.
(DIR) Post #9jNd5xk2IxY3HCbTt2 by horatius@mastodon.social
2019-05-31T18:49:09Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Dielan @tom79 Here's a hint. Nazis.
(DIR) Post #9jNd5xtbjNCjkt57o0 by Dielan@letsalllovela.in
2019-05-31T20:13:28.053475Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@horatius @tom79 what are you responding to?
(DIR) Post #9jNdm5Z1bykFhRXZMO by ArdanianRight@freespeechextremist.com
2019-05-31T20:21:05.989484Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kekuser @inditoot @tom79 I wish that were the case...
(DIR) Post #9jNfOdA5FCvarLofyq by hasya23@jorts.horse
2019-05-31T20:38:10Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@tom79 hell yeah, you made the right choice :ancomheart:
(DIR) Post #9jNfOdKibfR1OKnAYa by igeljaeger@the.hedgehoghunter.club
2019-05-31T20:39:13.546283Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@hasya23 @tom79 such anarchyvery wow
(DIR) Post #9jNfcrvP9SqihWjvBw by themorgangoats@jorts.horse
2019-05-31T20:41:48Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@inditoot @tom79 its good to be biased against literal nazis
(DIR) Post #9jNfjFqT84CIctTZTc by igeljaeger@the.hedgehoghunter.club
2019-05-31T20:42:56.332307Z
5 likes, 3 repeats
@themorgangoats @tom79 @inditoot hypocrisy everywhere. Freedoms dont end where your feelings start
(DIR) Post #9jNfxtk9aMfCQFVLhA by espectalll@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T20:45:37Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@tom79 hmm, do you think this may technically make Fedilab not free software as defined by the FSF?
(DIR) Post #9jNg0fkS4l6Lsyy12W by lain@kawen.space
2019-05-31T20:46:07.690445Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@espectalll @tom79 it's still free, anyone can fork and change.
(DIR) Post #9jNg9n3SHP119XCfbM by espectalll@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T20:47:45Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@lain @tom79 yeah sure, but like, you already have to fork it, modify the source code and create your own version, the program as is doesn't let you run it "as you wish, for any purpose"
(DIR) Post #9jNgGH43cKMHxoZpLs by hirnbrot@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T20:48:56Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@espectalll @lain @tom79 You can use the program as it is, for any purpose that it works for.It doesn't have to be made to run for any purpose.Or otherwise e.g. if a text editor didn't let you play music, you could say it's not free software, because you can't use it to play music.
(DIR) Post #9jNgKzox9jN7volOzI by lain@kawen.space
2019-05-31T20:49:48.388485Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@espectalll @tom79 the fsf free software definition only concerns the source.
(DIR) Post #9jNgL2v5dN3zXieqTA by espectalll@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T20:49:47Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@hirnbrot @lain @tom79 actually I think we should differentiate "purpose" from "task" here
(DIR) Post #9jNgSVrCRc3fJjOmBc by hirnbrot@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T20:51:08Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@espectalll @lain @tom79 Slightly different question:Someone makes an IRC client and releases the source as e.g. GPL, but hardcodes the server (as a hash-define).Is it still free software?
(DIR) Post #9jNgU9jFggJ7GcSrxY by wowaname@anime.website
2019-05-31T20:51:27.434774Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@tom79 retweeted only to let everyone know how much of an IDIOT you are, digging your own grave. make it prominent that your software isnt an unrestricted activitypub client
(DIR) Post #9jNgW6ZWObQ63TqJ5k by espectalll@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T20:51:47Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@lain @tom79 how so? It clearly uses the terms "program", "binary" and "source code" as separate, and uses them more clearly for the four other freedoms
(DIR) Post #9jNgcr9S7wWuFxru88 by lain@kawen.space
2019-05-31T20:53:01.589147Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@espectalll @tom79 you need to provide the source for the binary, and then you need to able to use the source for what you want. Having the binary do what you want is not part of any free software definition I know.
(DIR) Post #9jNgeeFJ54AOoGSeAK by espectalll@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T20:53:20Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@hirnbrot @lain @tom79 well, the client is, the server isn't, that's what the AGPL tries to solve, right?
(DIR) Post #9jNggNPcdeznBF6tbE by espectalll@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T20:53:38Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@hirnbrot @lain @tom79 (I don't think I'm understanding here)
(DIR) Post #9jNgiKJR8Owa969AG0 by hirnbrot@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T20:54:00Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@espectalll Sorry, I mean the client has, in its source:"const string server = http://www.example.com"is it still free software?
(DIR) Post #9jNglNM8H8OuSBrUCO by eal@social.sakamoto.gq
2019-05-31T20:54:33.980852Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@lain @tom79 @espectalll I'll use a bug-free license for my next project
(DIR) Post #9jNgnGrjNSCCu4XsC8 by lain@kawen.space
2019-05-31T20:54:54.963152Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@eal @espectalll @tom79 good luck!
(DIR) Post #9jNgo6ORnZfYiJFDlo by espectalll@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T20:55:02Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@hirnbrot oh alright, in that case the application was made specifically for that server, like with say, Telegram's client, and should be valid, as that's what it is for
(DIR) Post #9jNgqxzRUxQrWIulVY by hirnbrot@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T20:55:33Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@espectalll The only difference with the case at hand here is that they have, effectively:const string notthatserver = gab
(DIR) Post #9jNgzgevItTINKTW8O by espectalll@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T20:57:07Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@hirnbrot indeed that's the difference, there's a big one between a whitelist that delimits what tasks the is for, and a blacklist that prohibits you from all purposes within the tasks it was designed for - I have a hard time defending this point, though
(DIR) Post #9jNhKg5qbP2Wha4tE0 by espectalll@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T21:00:55Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@hirnbrot This also further confuses me - a binary isn't free software if you can't replace it with a different one, which is what GPLv3 is all about. Does this imply that binaries shouldn't go against any of the freedoms in the definition, or just that they can't deny you to work around their restrictions?
(DIR) Post #9jNhXQip41cWnEOAee by hirnbrot@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T21:03:13Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@espectalll The FSF's position is that phones might effectively make software non-free, yes.See VLC's trouble with the GPL and iOS, for instance.But on android, you can install your own version simply enough, so I don't think that really applies?Also it's not like the GPLv3 is uncontroversial, mainly because of this point.
(DIR) Post #9jNhpmrhTUtwgJIKUC by espectalll@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T21:06:32Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@hirnbrot maybe I should contact them in a maillist or something to see what they have to say :blobcatthinking:
(DIR) Post #9jNiEGfSJz4m3vEz9U by hirnbrot@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T21:10:59Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@espectalll Imagine they had a list of all servers except for gab, and they only allowed you to pick from that list.Personally, this only makes life (slightly) harder for nazis, and I'm entirely alright with that. But I've never been a libertarian.
(DIR) Post #9jNiIySRS8AR27OiPI by espectalll@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T21:11:49Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@hirnbrot well, that's a blacklist, a whitelist where you purposefully set exceptions is just a really inefficient blacklist
(DIR) Post #9jNiPd77CvVOrZb10K by hirnbrot@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T21:13:02Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@espectalll How many servers need to be missing before it's a "real" whitelist?
(DIR) Post #9jNiUGD3n9n7H7aJcG by keiyakins@elekk.xyz
2019-05-31T21:13:51Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@espectalll @lain @tom79 You don't have to supply every possible variation of compile-time options as binaries. That would be a crazy-high barrier that no one should be expected to meet.
(DIR) Post #9jNiUpZyHxukyJZbge by espectalll@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T21:13:58Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@hirnbrot Anyway, I think that software should stay as neutral on its purposes as possible (not implementations of that software, mind you, Mastodon is doing it good enough) and users shouldn't be told what is ethically right or wrong, nor it's the responsibility of software to deal with it by being opinionated.
(DIR) Post #9jNiYz7AmIB3hi5FcO by espectalll@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T21:14:43Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@keiyakins @lain @tom79 why do you need every possible variation of compile-time options? It's not about tasks that a software can do but purposes it can fulfill
(DIR) Post #9jNid8LaOTPZUpntGS by hirnbrot@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T21:15:28Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@espectalll The responsibility of software, especially free software developed and distributed for free, is whatever the author wants.And if you don't like that, if it's free software, you can become the author.
(DIR) Post #9jNipilQp3Y1urtXqC by espectalll@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T21:17:44Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@hirnbrot actually that's what we're talking about, whenever free software IS free software depending on whatever the author wants
(DIR) Post #9jNivjTF6ld1qTFmm8 by espectalll@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T21:18:50Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@hirnbrot and I mean "want" as in, actually expressing such will/biases/whatever in the software itself, and not just like Gargron or Kaniini
(DIR) Post #9jNj9UqSHa2AXTfrsm by hirnbrot@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T21:21:19Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@espectalll Sure, and the only even slightly contencious freedom is freedom 0, and what Im saying is:The program doesn't have to be fit for the purposes you imagine, it just has to do what it does without the author suing you.See http://web.cvs.savannah.gnu.org/viewvc/www/www/philosophy/free-sw.html?r1=1.133&r2=1.134:>The freedom to run the program as you wish means that you are notforbidden or stopped from doing so. It has nothing to do with whatfunctionality the program has, or whether it is useful for what youwant to do.
(DIR) Post #9jNjMkfCmTS9McjUTA by espectalll@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T21:23:43Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@hirnbrot ...and again, I agree with that, we're arguing over whenever the binaries denying your purposes is equivalent to it not being free software (and yeah, I admit it's a stretch, I just try to think over this stuff)
(DIR) Post #9jNjO8IUOgNkx4lZ0C by zemichi@pl.smuglo.li
2019-05-31T21:23:59.671221Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@tom79 lolYou're owned by Google™️
(DIR) Post #9jNjUUH1bPJoqd6xQ8 by hirnbrot@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T21:25:07Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@espectalll I'm saying it's equivalent to the binary not having the functionality to do what you want.If you want it, get the source and add it.
(DIR) Post #9jNjpCgyAJ0COv7o7k by espectalll@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T21:28:51Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@hirnbrot it's not the same however, since while the lack of functionality doesn't discriminate against your intended purposes (just means it doesn't meet them as you intend to out of the box, which indeed no prebuilt software in the world is capable of delivering on its own), blocking them does and demands you to create your own version for what can be otherwise fully functional
(DIR) Post #9jNk0P6UMLmI52OzFg by hirnbrot@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T21:30:53Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@espectalll But the way to fix it is entirely the same?A program doesn't need to be free of things that actively annoy you to be free software, see GNU parallel.That has a message that tells you you need to cite it as a source if you're in academia, and you need to deactivate it via "--will-cite". If it required a recompile instead, would it no longer be free software?
(DIR) Post #9jNk78zWfAZo8UMKQq by keiyakins@elekk.xyz
2019-05-31T21:32:01Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@espectalll @lain @tom79 You don't. Thus, if there's a compile-time option (whether it's in some configuration headers or as a parameter to make or whatever) the person making binaries is free to set it to whatever they think is best.
(DIR) Post #9jNkAYySW3gpaZUTCa by espectalll@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T21:32:43Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@keiyakins @lain @tom79 yeah, and that doesn't have to imply any discrimination that denies use cases as with a blacklist
(DIR) Post #9jNkS2bZbPTePV7V1k by espectalll@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T21:35:52Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@hirnbrot Being fixed in the same way doesn't mean it should have to. One is insurmountable (adding features that don't exist), the other one is just a barrier that purposefully restricts what you are allowed to use it for. From what I understand GNU parallel's message is just a message and not binding at all, but more importantly doesn't stop you from using the program for any purpose. Would like to stress that I'm doubtful this is what the FSF means or how it should be defined like.
(DIR) Post #9jNkawhKvy4mhE3teC by espectalll@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T21:37:29Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@hirnbrot (also, compile time flags: they're not insurmountable, since the features are already in the code, but neither discriminate by what users should be allowed to use it for)
(DIR) Post #9jNkfVGsKk3z56rGC0 by hirnbrot@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T21:38:19Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@espectalll I feel like we're stuck on the reading of freedom 0 here.The context that I read it in is Apple's EULA.That forbids using Apple products in nuclear power plants, *in the license*.That means that, while the products would *work* there, Apple would come and sue you. So you're legally bound not to do it.
(DIR) Post #9jNkpKgoWxfX9ug4fo by espectalll@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T21:40:05Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@hirnbrot yeah I read it lmao, actually that's a massive violation of freedom 0...which brings us to......if you wrote your software so that it doesn't work in nuclear plants, even if you release the source code... well, you know...
(DIR) Post #9jNl6bv1j4PJW8Z31E by espectalll@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T21:43:13Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@hirnbrot (btw this reminds me of when I complained about Qvitter complaining about capitalism, I guess I was quite wrong there? https://github.com/hannesmannerheim/qvitter/pull/47)
(DIR) Post #9jNlIiEo3drkafaQyW by hirnbrot@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T21:45:23Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@espectalll I believe so, yes.Free software does whatever the author wants it to.And.... aren't you a libertarian?Shouldn't it be your perspective that it's up to the person to do whatever they want?
(DIR) Post #9jNlJ9ey6Tptdd2D0C by hirnbrot@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T21:41:44Z
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@espectalll A weird anecdote:Fish has, since version 3.0, a blacklist of builtin utilities that it won't allow you to override with a function. Most of those builtins *can't* be overridden (because they set variables, and that would introduce a new scope). But one *could technically be*, but we're still blocking it because we've had a bunch of issues with bug reports, and there's no real use.In a reddit thread on that, someone even commented that we should not restrict them in that way.
(DIR) Post #9jNlJ9r1NfTeF0fpmy by hirnbrot@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T21:42:22Z
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@espectalll This is a blacklist in the source that restricts you from doing a thing, and requires you to patch it out. Is it now still free software?
(DIR) Post #9jNlJA20ioGen5obuy by espectalll@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T21:45:27Z
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@hirnbrot well, does it discriminate against? I don't think there's any issue if it's not telling people what use cases not to use it for, same thing with compile time flags
(DIR) Post #9jNlJQUFXaMZpJ9O9g by keiyakins@elekk.xyz
2019-05-31T21:45:31Z
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@espectalll @lain @tom79 Doesn't it? Blocklists don't inherently make something nonfree... The IceCat browser, maintained by the FSF specifically to be a free fork of Firefox, still uses the extension blocklists, for instance.
(DIR) Post #9jNlPKge1BkTZjlSHw by alexl@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T21:42:19Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@tom79 @kekuser so you admit the point is not risking to be banned by Play Store, but pushing your political ideas to others and restrict their freedom
(DIR) Post #9jNlQ5poiu0pnnPwbw by espectalll@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T21:46:43Z
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@keiyakins @lain @tom79 hmm, how does that blocklist in IceCat work? I tried it out but never used it enough to notice
(DIR) Post #9jNlYvndP3sXHibwI4 by espectalll@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T21:48:18Z
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@hirnbrot > Free software does whatever the author wants it to.well, I don't want to be annoying... but that's kinda the issue at play here!> Shouldn't it be your perspective that it's up to the person to do whatever they want?yeah, but that doesn't stop me from considering definitions because I'm a dumb geek or something
(DIR) Post #9jNlavhYjqhJYmiq2K by keiyakins@elekk.xyz
2019-05-31T21:48:40Z
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@espectalll @lain @tom79 it lists a bunch of extensions and plugins that the browser will refuse to load. Mostly because they're crashy, full of security holes, actively malicious, or some combination of the three. You can circumvent it if you want, of course, but it requires fairly deep technical knowledge of how the browser works.
(DIR) Post #9jNloEM8h0lRBG2sgi by espectalll@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T21:51:05Z
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@keiyakins @lain @tom79 well, then that's just about at the thin line, at a point where I consider that it's no problem because the binary already delivers a way to change that - however, if we make a difference between binaries and source code, isn't it because of that difficulty over making changes?
(DIR) Post #9jNlpZDUcSAIATdeEa by espectalll@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T21:51:20Z
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@keiyakins @lain @tom79 (or just not being the default)
(DIR) Post #9jNlrvk9pt2oc42nQ0 by hirnbrot@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T21:51:46Z
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@espectalll Okay, so:- Where in the free software definition does it say that the author has to be "neutral", especially politically? Consider that free software is a political term in itself, and the FSF does quite a bit of campaigning.- Why is it better to be neutral? Isn't it possible to be good, instead of neutral? If it's possible to make life harder just for nazis, and nazis are bad, isn't that good?- How neutral would the software have to be? Is pro-atheism software bad? Pro-furry?
(DIR) Post #9jNm2BLKgx5RtFJx1U by sum@greenish.red
2019-05-31T21:53:38.622520Z
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@tom79 I respect your choice and love your software (using it right now in fact), hope all the anger from the trolls doesn't ruin your day
(DIR) Post #9jNm3rUTTSC6tiOii8 by alexl@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T21:49:10Z
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@kekuser in fact mine was a reply to @tom79, sorry
(DIR) Post #9jNm3rekrEPxPbCvjc by kekuser@freespeech.host
2019-05-31T21:53:55.179987Z
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@alexl @tom79 Oh yeah should probably have realized that😅
(DIR) Post #9jNm6Tq1rxh4PTjDnc by espectalll@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T21:54:23Z
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@hirnbrot - The author doesn't have to be neutral, the software should. Keep in mind this isn't about being completely politically neutral either, it's rather about discrimination/rejection/blocking.The other two points are already about something else, although related, so I think I'll "fork" it into another toot
(DIR) Post #9jNmNTFHKIZ5Uidkqe by espectalll@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T21:57:28Z
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@hirnbrot - It doesn't have to, actually, it's rather about the software itself- Neutral software just needs to not discriminate who is going to use it and what for - you can later have whichever opinions you want, and implement it (configure it on your computer or phone, customize your server, whatever) as you intend it toActually I found a hole in my arguments here: if you fork free software to configure it for your own use cases including a blocklist, would that stop being free software?
(DIR) Post #9jNmTX3w30u74QE0My by hirnbrot@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T21:58:34Z
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@espectalll I disagree that it says that, anywhere.Like I said, freedom 0 seems to me to be a reaction to EULAs like Apples, which act with *legal* force. See e.g.>if you distribute it to someone else, she is then free to run it for her purposes [0]You wrote software, you distribute it, now you can't stop them anymore. It's giving control away, not requiring you to do anything before.[0]: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.en.html
(DIR) Post #9jNmbzCDKcsUdq811U by espectalll@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T22:00:03Z
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@hirnbrot we're reading the same page, don't worryobviously it is done as a reaction to restrictive EULAs just like everything about free software is, but free software isn't merely about the legal, but it's about effective freedom, from what I understand
(DIR) Post #9jNmwPiwPZI8hxB1nc by hirnbrot@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T22:03:45Z
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@espectalll Weird idea: What if the blocklist was e.g. to help catholics?What if it blocked instances that allowed images of meat on fridays?Or what if it blocked instances that had "bad words" in the name, to stop you from seeing them?
(DIR) Post #9jNmzsSO2Unags5LLU by espectalll@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T22:04:23Z
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@hirnbrot oh wait, my brain did a dumb on the second point :blobderpy: The problem with ethics is that people have to determine them, these people being the developers, who in principle have power over the users, power which free software tries to reverse. So maybe it is for the best or the worst, but you have to determine that, and whatever you determine is then implemented in the codebase. So it's being opinionated in something that affects users' freedoms with that software.
(DIR) Post #9jNnAVs2M3snpG9dJo by espectalll@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T22:06:19Z
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@hirnbrot Now, this doesn't automatically mean that users are forced to all or nothing, since that's indeed what the source code is for - which brings me to a point I brought here (https://mstdn.io/@espectalll/102192871190511239), don't we differentiate between source code and binary because of the difficulties each one implies?
(DIR) Post #9jNnFSHT842u8kPGRU by espectalll@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T22:07:12Z
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@hirnbrot I still wouldn't agree with it :blobcatsip:
(DIR) Post #9jNnIpHM4x8gKuxcmW by espectalll@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T22:07:49Z
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@hirnbrot (keep in mind: we're talking, hardcoded, you can't change that within the binary)
(DIR) Post #9jNnOgtABc4Q3IRRbs by espectalll@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T22:08:53Z
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@hirnbrot (...which again brings me here https://mstdn.io/@espectalll/102192931118300780this is going to get philosophical and extra meta, isn't it)
(DIR) Post #9jNnOtIQ3XP2X6Lmds by hirnbrot@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T22:08:54Z
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@espectalll The FSF only ever requires you to have the source code, and in the GPLv3 to be able to use it.They don't force you to have binaries (to qualify as FOSS), so they can't force you to build the binaries in a specific way, as long as you're allowed to replace them.
(DIR) Post #9jNnVO7MNJ0nrVH8r2 by espectalll@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T22:10:04Z
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@hirnbrot yeah, it only requires the source code, but it also says that binary builds of free software, even if no source code was changed and if it was built properly, can in fact not be free software
(DIR) Post #9jNnX2Pe2qFF7kcBW4 by hirnbrot@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T22:10:24Z
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@espectalll Okay. What if it was geared towards a child audience (in the default build), and blocked NSFW stuff?It wouldn't have a config option because kids could turn that off.
(DIR) Post #9jNnZQQTjaqoBC8wMa by hirnbrot@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T22:10:50Z
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@espectalll If they can't be replaced. They can, here (discounting iOS).
(DIR) Post #9jNngwLHT9a9C1IMxU by espectalll@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T22:12:11Z
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@hirnbrot Well, again, I would disagree over that. I actually wonder if people at the FSF would argue parental control software (or just anything to protect kids) is unethical because of that
(DIR) Post #9jNnpr5oM8n5WBJK7c by espectalll@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T22:13:47Z
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@hirnbrot (as for myself, I think kids should be incentivized to safe content for obvious reasons, but if they're smart and mature enough to figure out stuff and with proper guidance, they should be allowed to bypass that)
(DIR) Post #9jNnskv3lV8xExfHM0 by hirnbrot@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T22:14:20Z
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@espectalll Plenty of kids are smart enough to type "rotten.com".Doesn't mean they're mature enough to see its contents.
(DIR) Post #9jNnzf91dMcnMDUTXk by espectalll@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T22:15:33Z
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@hirnbrot > incentivizethat's the key, put the barriers at the right height, no need to put an unavoidable wall
(DIR) Post #9jNo4mG4c3cOrsE52W by hirnbrot@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T22:16:29Z
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@espectalll I disagree that the height of the wall can have much to do with the maturity to see what's behind it.Just because you're able to pull the trigger doesn't mean you should be allowed to hold a gun.
(DIR) Post #9jNo7tlHAkFr0XJDyC by espectalll@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T22:17:03Z
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@hirnbrot what I think is that these should be adjusted to match
(DIR) Post #9jNoFsjGtVlu7fB74K by hirnbrot@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T22:18:30Z
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@espectalll ****HOW****?How do you build a technical maturity check?Do you do a psych test? Wouldn't be much of a "technical" hurdle.Or how about you let the kids convince the parents? Wouldn't that classify as a "barrier"?
(DIR) Post #9jNoabKukuoSGEfJ0S by espectalll@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T22:22:14Z
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@hirnbrot The idea is that, say, you would make it required to have some sort of knowledge or ability to pull it off which you could only obtain with enough maturity. Say, you could figure out how to browse "bad" websites if you know they exist and you know how to and can change the option to show it up.The only problem with parents authorization is that they're different individuals, but a child is expected to be dependent on them anyway, so it could be good enough of a barrier.
(DIR) Post #9jNoqjpew5aXFAjylM by hirnbrot@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T22:20:11Z
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@espectalll Anyway, I'm going to bed now.Good night!
(DIR) Post #9jNoqmGfscO0nXOa9I by espectalll@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T22:25:09Z
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@hirnbrot Good night! :blobcatmelt: 💤 (Sorry if it gets weird and boring and lengthy for such seemingly unimportant things, I just like to think about the nuances so I have clear ideas on stuff and find myself able to deal with any kinds of dilemmas, and I think it's good to talk it out)
(DIR) Post #9jNp6adEuUjdLJURNY by hirnbrot@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T22:28:01Z
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@espectalll That is basically impossible to build. Sorry, I think you've gone a bit too deep into your philosophy and are trying to force things.Take a step back. We're trying to give kids a good upbringing, not building perfect child-selection machines.
(DIR) Post #9jNpsfVA6kX2LVda9g by espectalll@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T22:36:42Z
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@hirnbrot Why not? You can, for instance, make a web browser which doesn't even show URLs by default, and which makes you browse through safe places by default. To change that behavior, you have to at least know about the nature of how the Internet works and blacklists/whitelists, then how to configure them.Or the better approach, just build apps intended to be used in specific safe places.That said, it is a stretch.
(DIR) Post #9jNqknHjNxrg7hAF9M by hirnbrot@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T22:46:29Z
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@espectalll But that doesn't demonstrate that you're okay with handling e.g. gore?
(DIR) Post #9jNrZNRPESxajpoFcG by epicmorphism@satania.space
2019-05-31T22:55:39.017670Z
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@hirnbrot @espectalll > In a reddit thread on that, someone even commented that we should not restrict them in that way.Even more connoceurs of free software with reading comprehension problems?
(DIR) Post #9jNrmMWtvqflfzZVRY by epicmorphism@satania.space
2019-05-31T22:58:00.166017Z
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@espectalll @hirnbrot wow it’s been four years and you still haven’t bothered to read up on what do the four freedoms mean..
(DIR) Post #9jNs9z3SrWbTow4BSC by uninstall@pl.smuglo.li
2019-05-31T23:02:16.917940Z
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@espectalll @hirnbrot https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-3.0.en.html> THE COPYRIGHT HOLDERS AND/OR OTHER PARTIES PROVIDE THE PROGRAM “AS IS” WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.The authors of pretty much any free software (GPL included), don't owe you a functioning piece of code, much less a piece of code that "can be used for any purpose."
(DIR) Post #9jNswJ6vb9XpvGjFnk by alexl@mstdn.io
2019-05-31T21:35:07Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@tom79 this is discriminatory and based on the assumption that all users of Gab are criminals and that all your users will never want to interact with them.The reality is that there is a social network that respects free speech and ban only illegal stuff, not opinions, even the most stupid ones.
(DIR) Post #9jP88PaP2deHx2hnIu by meowski@freespeechextremist.com
2019-06-01T13:35:59.766013Z
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@tom79 Snuggling up to the authoritarians is a bad move. Ultimately it's not going to protect you.
(DIR) Post #9jPCFakiK7SSQWCvNg by meowski@freespeechextremist.com
2019-06-01T14:22:06.823855Z
4 likes, 3 repeats
@i @tom79 >I will always remain neutral....> I took the decision to block GabChoose one
(DIR) Post #9jPDcgWd7t6CwgCAvA by yolo@anime.website
2019-06-01T14:37:26.668184Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@tom79 hi i'm using the latest version of your app :^)i'm very pleased with your unbiased and thoughtful decisionsTusky_1559399831406_VIGEITVMJX.…
(DIR) Post #9jPEHz0bJIBE8xuG3M by hyphen@anime.website
2019-06-01T14:44:55.834586Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@yolo @tom79 hey yolo whats the release number you got?
(DIR) Post #9jPGV3raltvmsC3ZT6 by yolo@anime.website
2019-06-01T15:09:43.026058Z
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@hyphen @tom79 4.20
(DIR) Post #9jPHkeNTOXS0PxxwxM by hyphen@anime.website
2019-06-01T15:23:44.506217Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@yolo @tom79 god fucking dammit you live in 2420
(DIR) Post #9jPYTGUmdJPKe9gIGO by horatius@mastodon.social
2019-06-01T10:05:41Z
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@Dielan @tom79 Don't use nazis to start a slippery slope argument.
(DIR) Post #9jPYTGhXrrcFHjeU9g by Dielan@letsalllovela.in
2019-06-01T18:31:05.351338Z
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@horatius @tom79 My question was already answered and tom has committed to doing the right thing.Don't message me again