Post 9iIm9SQjjltrhXOtEG by Elfchen@letsalllovela.in
(DIR) More posts by Elfchen@letsalllovela.in
(DIR) Post #9iIBoBeVKEppEaOkYC by jon_valdes@mastodon.technology
2019-04-29T07:18:55Z
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Hey, English question: what's a gender-neutral version of "you guys"? Because I blurted "you people" and that made someone angry at me, thinking I was being dismissive 😕
(DIR) Post #9iIBoC081q8GJeW1Fw by Majkatsu@shigusegubu.club
2019-04-29T07:22:04.116932Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@jon_valdes "You guys" is already gender neutral, the idea of it not being gender neutral is very recent
(DIR) Post #9iIDOGig3wOfKU7RoG by jon_valdes@mastodon.technology
2019-04-29T07:36:05Z
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@Majkatsu ask a cis dude how many guys he has slept with, and you'll quickly see "guys" has a pretty definite gender. Maybe it didn't before, but it absolutely does now
(DIR) Post #9iIDOHIptVJv8d2KAa by Majkatsu@shigusegubu.club
2019-04-29T07:39:47.735733Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@jon_valdes People use "you guys" to refer to people of mixed sex all the time in English, and only recently have people gotten funny about itContext is very important in English, which is why "you people" can seem aggressive or dismissive if used in the wrong context"come on you guys, we're gonna be late" is gender neutral"come on you people," especially as an outsider, for example someone who is foreign to the country, will seem slightly patronizingIt's not an intuitive language
(DIR) Post #9iIERJwcd2tC9cf1xw by caseyp@letsalllovela.in
2019-04-29T07:51:33.465069Z
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@Majkatsu @jon_valdes I'd argue "you people" is always negative. On the topic of gender neutrality of guys: guy/guys is a gendered term. You guys is not. This arises from the complete lack of being able to accurately express the second person plural. Short of "y'all" there isn't particularly a good way of expressing *familiarity* in the second person plural, so "you guys" fills that role colloquially. Because second person plural is not gendered, but "guy" is (as a third person noun), it actually kinda makes sense that one is and one isn't. If you squint at the classifications
(DIR) Post #9iIETpWSC4eKfdcKps by 1iceloops123@shitposter.club
2019-04-29T07:52:01.041044Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@caseyp @majkatsu @jonvaldes nibba
(DIR) Post #9iIEghqE3ycgc30ORc by Majkatsu@shigusegubu.club
2019-04-29T07:54:19.501183Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@caseyp @jon_valdes Well, "you people" can be fine if everyone is familiar with each other and you have a playful tone of voice"I leave for one second and you people made such a mess" when you're having a party with your friends in your flat is not offensive if everyone is pretty familiar with each otherKinda like how Australia call their friends "cunts" like we call friends "mates"English is really dumb lmao
(DIR) Post #9iIEylKNq6dWdcimJ6 by caseyp@letsalllovela.in
2019-04-29T07:57:36.137888Z
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@Majkatsu @jon_valdes Yeah but it's still negative, strictly speaking. But because of the weird interplay of negativity is positive when you're close with people and you add a tone is ??? so idk. That's something you gotta be careful with and don't particularly need to use ever since there are safer options. Even as a native English speaker who's just a major autistic dumby I avoid it heh
(DIR) Post #9iIF8SCLokJaCkaLj6 by Majkatsu@shigusegubu.club
2019-04-29T07:59:20.480912Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@caseyp @jon_valdes Yeah it might be better to avoid it, but I wanted to clarify it just in case, because it's possible that someone who is a non native speaker would be familiar enough in a group to be exposed to that and it would be a misunderstanding to think it was an insult
(DIR) Post #9iIFFMhKfLPJAmN8RE by caseyp@letsalllovela.in
2019-04-29T08:00:36.187024Z
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@Majkatsu @jon_valdes Ah that's a good point. I forgot about it going the other way :deskslap:
(DIR) Post #9iIm9SQjjltrhXOtEG by Elfchen@letsalllovela.in
2019-04-29T14:09:18.095072Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@caseyp Can't you just like talk normally???@Majkatsu @jon_valdes
(DIR) Post #9iIuCAAAuSm7Y5SGBc by jon_valdes@mastodon.technology
2019-04-29T08:41:01Z
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Thanks everyone for the ideas/discussion. To give a bit more context: it was a whole-team discussion, and I wanted to refer to a subteam, and ask "hey, you guys are the ones maintaining this system, right?". But then I realized I was talking to a lady, and "guys" might be not OK, so I switched to "people". That wasn't a good choice 🤦♂️ "you folks" as @ellotheth suggested would work, I guess? But "y'all" would address the whole group instead of the subteam, right?cc: @Majkatsu @caseyp @acrata
(DIR) Post #9iIuCAnWYAFbW7rgWG by ellotheth@mastodon.technology
2019-04-29T08:45:09Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@jon_valdes Not necessarily. If you're talking directly to the team (looking at them or giving off other non-verbal cues), "y'all" sounds to me like you're addressing the team. "Hey, your team is maintaining..." could be another option. @Majkatsu @caseyp @acrata
(DIR) Post #9iIuCZYUVC52Ik1X3g by jon_valdes@mastodon.technology
2019-04-29T08:56:40Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@ellotheth @Majkatsu @caseyp @acrata Another detail I forgot to mention: it was a discussion through Slack, so no non-textual cues :(