Post 9hyJD9YiMYKiv1SpCy by kaniini@pleroma.site
(DIR) More posts by kaniini@pleroma.site
(DIR) Post #9hwlvpD7GzL5F0Wzk8 by kaniini@pleroma.site
2019-04-18T23:22:49.754802Z
10 likes, 18 repeats
by endorsing discord, via advertising a discord guild for your FOSS project, you harm FOSS because you help them with their disinformation campaign that discord is a viable alternative to libre tools like IRC and XMPP
(DIR) Post #9hwlxGIW37XZXWk412 by kaniini@pleroma.site
2019-04-18T23:23:24.278870Z
5 likes, 2 repeats
by endorsing WSL for your free software distribution, you help Microsoft harm FOSS by repackaging "Linux" as an "app" you download from the Windows Store
(DIR) Post #9hwmCP5XeE6F9CtSeu by kaniini@pleroma.site
2019-04-18T23:25:49.760364Z
3 likes, 4 repeats
when will projects stop doing things that are beneficial in the short term and extremely undermining in the long term? yeah, WSL can help to get new people hooked on Alpine, and Discord has nice features. but in the long term, it means they own you.
(DIR) Post #9hwmCcdLHrrT9no8eG by sam@snack.social
2019-04-18T23:24:19.336654Z
15 likes, 13 repeats
@kaniini regular reminder that discord bans people from using third party clients, it’s even worse than just a proprietary service. using it to host FOSS communities in no circumstance is sane
(DIR) Post #9hwml4HD19KYjhschU by moonman@shitposter.club
2019-04-18T23:31:03.802632Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kaniini FOSS projects should dogfood FOSS chat tools, but tbh Discord is better than IRC or XMPP by a large margin.
(DIR) Post #9hwmpYGnReBQuvpDea by kaniini@pleroma.site
2019-04-18T23:32:54.443497Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@moonman there's Mattermost at least
(DIR) Post #9hwmtQz4TYCdTkNxz6 by moonman@shitposter.club
2019-04-18T23:32:34.517781Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kaniini Mattermost is pretty good.
(DIR) Post #9hwqQpRkqRDWlcPw7k by kaniini@pleroma.site
2019-04-19T00:13:14.953778Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@moonman yeah, well, pleroma chat will be ready sometime this year hopefully.
(DIR) Post #9hwqUrOBZ4uLwwfcGm by wowaname@anime.website
2019-04-19T00:14:20.041556Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@moonman @kaniini not really, im constantly disappointed by discord's design choices
(DIR) Post #9hwqYx0YcEviXDZKhk by wowaname@anime.website
2019-04-19T00:15:04.732204Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@moonman @kaniini matrix is shit too but hell id rather use that over discord
(DIR) Post #9hwqkVfQ5v3DDIC4no by wowaname@anime.website
2019-04-19T00:17:09.442675Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kaniini idk what you have against wsl specifically when windows itself has a plethora of issues worth commenting on
(DIR) Post #9hwqnlVTex7fCx5zLk by sam@snack.social
2019-04-19T00:14:09.594635Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kaniini @moonman how will it work exactly, across instances?
(DIR) Post #9hwqnlhsup2zpQttgm by libc@snack.social
2019-04-19T00:15:51.457232Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sam @kaniini @moonman i think it would be retargetted to AP messages instead of a local ring buffer
(DIR) Post #9hwqnlsWHHYQMPsOGW by kaniini@pleroma.site
2019-04-19T00:17:21.993745Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@libc @moonman @sam it depends on streamingInbox to scale well, which is why it's on hold. need to solve latencies first.but it's essentially an enhanced AS2 vocabulary for chat messages
(DIR) Post #9hwqown3C3YSUasYNM by kaniini@pleroma.site
2019-04-19T00:17:55.613887Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wowaname because WSL is an explicit tool for undermining the idea of running a Linux distribution for real
(DIR) Post #9hwqrUCfw0L4hX4jc8 by wowaname@anime.website
2019-04-19T00:18:25.799820Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kaniini let poojeets and gamer webdevs have their fun
(DIR) Post #9hwqvPgseft1ra4mvo by wowaname@anime.website
2019-04-19T00:19:08.327614Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kaniini please note that this is exactly like saying "wine is an explicit tool for undermining the idea of running a windows installation for real"
(DIR) Post #9hwqwwoH0JFOs1GX8y by kaniini@pleroma.site
2019-04-19T00:19:11.077462Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wowaname they can use hyper-v
(DIR) Post #9hwqxCMrA0p77cYrdA by wowaname@anime.website
2019-04-19T00:19:27.738250Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kaniini theyre too stupid to
(DIR) Post #9hwrZiALNriqkL4afI by bamfic@hub.spaz.org
2019-04-18T23:49:56.881777Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sam @kaniini matrix riot is pretty discordy
(DIR) Post #9hwrZiOsVpLfTPsCJs by sam@snack.social
2019-04-18T23:51:34.000763Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@bamfic @kaniini point. in a sane world I’d be saying nice things about matrix in this space now, but unfortunately the matrix devs have proven themselves to be massively incompetent and cluelessmatrix could still be saved if someone took the spec and wrote a decent server for it, but the one person on IRC I know who was planning on doing that got massively demoralised by the whole process of trying to deal with that community
(DIR) Post #9hwrZiYRwF0Lx6LqEq by bamfic@hub.spaz.org
2019-04-19T00:23:58.134405Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sam @kaniini what sucks about the community? they seem to have their fe and ux shit together
(DIR) Post #9hwrZilDAnDGagK288 by sam@snack.social
2019-04-19T00:25:24.637203Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@bamfic @kaniini the backend is unreliable as fuck, which seems like a perpetual state of affairsi basically gave up on it after its unreliability screwed up conversations / caused me to lose messages too oftenthey were planning on writing a new backend in Go but I dunno what happened with that, and it didn’t sound like they were architecting it sanely
(DIR) Post #9hwrZj9JjAUlnRbHhg by kaniini@pleroma.site
2019-04-19T00:26:06.737131Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@sam @bamfic it depends on kafka :D :D :D :D :D
(DIR) Post #9hwtgw8Y2QYS0oo2QS by sjw@neckbeard.xyz
2019-04-19T00:50:08.072633Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@kaniini I don't know what your talking about. Pleroma runs great on Windows Server 2016!
(DIR) Post #9hwx4gfpTtvSrmOEi0 by bamfic@hub.spaz.org
2019-04-19T01:26:45.394233Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@sam @kaniini So, if you knew someone who was bonkers enough to try writing a Matrix server in Elixir, having been inspired by the great work of Pleroma devs, how would you architect it? It's a REST app, with long-polling, per https://matrix.org/docs/api/client-server/
(DIR) Post #9hwx4grAnj03QxhIOG by kaniini@pleroma.site
2019-04-19T01:27:32.679646Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@bamfic @sam there's a reason why we avoided Matrix protocol for Pleroma chat.
(DIR) Post #9hx2g6iQ7Ygo7RGSFU by brainblasted@social.libre.fi
2019-04-19T02:30:17.836291Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kaniini @bamfic @sam what are your reservations with the protocol itself?
(DIR) Post #9hx2g6u7Q42yhijnU0 by kaniini@pleroma.site
2019-04-19T02:30:45.938775Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@brainblasted @bamfic @sam it reeks of over-engineering
(DIR) Post #9hx2h9sbqESgDrX0ee by bamfic@hub.spaz.org
2019-04-19T00:29:21.106318Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sam @kaniini sigh. sounds lile the age-old problem: team of excellent fe and mobile devs creates pretty graphics and takes ux seriously, gets great usability, but has no fucking clue how to do backend dev and creates an unreilable, unmaintainable, poorly a poorly-architected mess on the server side.
(DIR) Post #9hx2hACod6cnEWz99M by sam@snack.social
2019-04-19T00:31:52.295811Z
3 likes, 1 repeats
@bamfic @kaniini the alternative is the backend team makes something utterly extraordinary in erlang that could survive nuclear war, and then the frontend team makes some abomination of a UI that makes small children cry
(DIR) Post #9hx2saBuMCa10k0Q1w by sam@snack.social
2019-04-19T02:32:26.886197Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@brainblasted @bamfic @kaniini I haven’t looked at it in detail, but according to the guy who tried to write a server and gave up, their s2s protocol is poorly documented/constantly changing, possibly as a half-deliberate attempt to stop other people writing servers; and is also poorly conceived in terms of security. AFAIK this individual eventually started trolling matrix.org by taking advantage of the assorted vulnerabilities in their stack, making themselves unbannable or so on
(DIR) Post #9hx2vpfdGGmrt8SUlc by kaniini@pleroma.site
2019-04-19T02:33:37.767756Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@sam @brainblasted @bamfic i still think the untrustworthy depth counter bug was wonderful
(DIR) Post #9hx31auB4VXrpd0eVE by brainblasted@social.libre.fi
2019-04-19T02:34:03.396025Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sam @bamfic @kaniini according to the guy who tried to write a server and gave up, their s2s protocol is poorly documented/constantly changingI’ve heard that from others, too.The matrix.org vulns weren’t in the Matrix software or protocol, though. Rather just issues with matrix.org’s setup
(DIR) Post #9hx31b9Q9pjqau8pGK by kaniini@pleroma.site
2019-04-19T02:34:39.996848Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@brainblasted @bamfic @sam we are talking about protocol vulns, like the trusted input issue with the depth counter when handling DAG merges.
(DIR) Post #9hx3O4TnnKjnvVOGvY by bamfic@hub.spaz.org
2019-04-19T02:37:23.297664Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sam @brainblasted @kaniini Kind of like AP?
(DIR) Post #9hx3O4eR9nFESUMlVI by kaniini@pleroma.site
2019-04-19T02:38:26.551925Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@bamfic @sam @brainblasted no, the fundamentals of AP are solid. they need a little bit of enhancement, but matrix protocol is a mess
(DIR) Post #9hx4M0GUas4cEJk75k by sam@snack.social
2019-04-19T02:43:10.013966Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@kaniini @bamfic @brainblasted haven’t had much luck with clients eitherriot is heavy, tried a weechat plugin except the matrix.org server is so crummy and constantly falling over that at many times, 90% of login API requests just fall over and 500, and the shitty weechat plugin didn’t comprehend the idea that HTTP requests could fail and retrying the login required restarting weechat. given all the IRC channels I’m in this is a pain so thanks to that pile of crap I literally got into the habit of running weechat as weechat -a to inhibit IRC autoconnect, typing /matrix connect to see if it would work, typing /quit and trying again when it doesn’t, and after like 30 fucking tries it finally gets a successful login request and then I can manually /connect to all my IRC servers.except that doesn’t work either because it fucking drops messages because of other bugs in this stupid client. then I realise 90% of the channels I’m accessing and 100% of the channels I care about are IRC channels anyway and I already have a bouncer so why even use matrix.alphamatrixm.png
(DIR) Post #9hxHhV0Sn8mj3fpFWi by owenthecat@meow.social
2019-04-18T23:33:54Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@sam @kaniini There's only one problem: All of my friends use Discord, and I don't know if they'll switch over to something else. I am however open to recommendations on what I should use instead.
(DIR) Post #9hxHhVM5Uk5A8jwWES by sam@snack.social
2019-04-18T23:35:51.015443Z
3 likes, 2 repeats
@owenthecat @kaniini i predict that your friends will refuse to use anything other than discord, and will get pissed off with you if you try and move themwhy yes I’m cynical from experience. this is how people work, and it’s why proprietary networks are able to become so entrenched. what to do about it? god knows
(DIR) Post #9hxHkte5dlGELNyrRo by sam@snack.social
2019-04-18T23:37:52.791850Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@owenthecat @kaniini tldr; most people don’t turn “what chat network to use” into an ethics question. we’re the weirdoes
(DIR) Post #9hxHktyePJhvN9bHUm by sam@snack.social
2019-04-18T23:47:15.082645Z
2 likes, 3 repeats
@kaniini @owenthecat I’ve long said that if email were invented today, it would go absolutely nowhere, why? Because there’s no money in it as a system, because it’s federated, no lockin, no $$$, no business motive to advertise it, make it popular. The only reason we have email is because it became a thing before the commercial internet.(yes, email sucks in many ways, but god, can you imagine if we didn’t even have it? if there was no federated, non-proprietary way to message pretty much anyone on the internet?)an interesting example is VoIP. There are IETF RFCs for SIP, etc., and the way the system was designed it’s entirely feasible to run a VoIP server so that you can call an email address, so foo@example.com becomes a kind of universal identifier regardless of what type of communications you’re trying to engage in. the specs are all there, nothing’s stopping anyone from deploying it, but there’s no money in it, so nobody does, plus the chicken and egg problem that nobody else is using it.so instead we’re stuck with bloody phone numbers, where unlike domain names you can’t even own them, they belong to your carrier. it’s 2019 and our best way of doing voice comms across the planet involves per-minute billing which was justified by a circuit-switching infrastructure that increasingly doesn’t even exist anymore (I hear lots of the PSTN is getting hollowed out on the inside and replaced with VoIP internally)but there’s a lot of money in keeping the farce of per-minute billing alive, and no money in rolling out SIP, so it doesn’t happen. LTE/4G even uses VoIP internally but of course it’s to your carrier’s service and they bill you just the same, not calling email addresses.it’s actually getting even worse with services like google/twitter/etc. demanding a phone number to even let you sign up. the phone number namespace is becoming more entrenched, not less.i’m surprised the fediverse got off the ground tbh, but that’s a hell of a positive move.
(DIR) Post #9hxHnAYHknOhMDLiTY by artilectzed@mastodon.social
2019-04-19T00:07:22Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@kaniini And Discord has investments from Tencent, which runs a Social Credit system on it's WeChat Pay platform. #FuckDiscord #FuckTencent
(DIR) Post #9hxHzQBtR143KqiZ5U by HarneyBA@pleroma.site
2019-04-19T05:22:24.025429Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@kaniini real sh*t!!!!!!!!!!!!
(DIR) Post #9hxMaoSKa1g77iUXFg by mrsaturday@shitposter.club
2019-04-19T06:12:35.791890Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@sam @owenthecat @kaniini All you can do about it is offer a better product. The masses are asses and don't care if something's FOSS. They want what works best. The only people that would accept a Discord substitute that doesn't blow Discord out of the water at the moment are Discord rejects.Matrix working with Eunomia doesn't exactly serve to help matters, either.
(DIR) Post #9hxbRGVMwEuoX4om0m by epicmorphism@satania.space
2019-04-19T09:00:18.687353Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@wowaname @kaniini > "wine is an explicit tool for undermining the idea of running a windows installation for real"this is true. and thanks wine for that.
(DIR) Post #9hxf8iPvKxOrPngIaW by wowaname@anime.website
2019-04-19T09:41:47.669982Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@bamfic @sam @kaniini idk i hated riot's ux too
(DIR) Post #9hxfZZUQdXJjXvauGm by wowaname@anime.website
2019-04-19T09:46:38.367817Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sam @kaniini @bamfic @brainblasted as someone who worked on weechat scripts and core code changes for a couple years (to which only one change got included upstream, without crediting me) i can tell you that it isnt just the plugin's fault. weechat's code quality, community, and core developer brew up a perfect opportunity for a shitty plugin
(DIR) Post #9hxmpkycOah5U7NcqO by judgedread@freespeechextremist.com
2019-04-19T11:08:00.752715Z
2 likes, 1 repeats
@sam @owenthecat @kaniini Get new friends.
(DIR) Post #9hxnto2n28Cy6tpHNI by succfemboi@iscute.moe
2019-04-19T11:19:54.804387Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kaniiniWhat happends when one endorses cgywin instead of WSL?
(DIR) Post #9hxo1Fm6KTN48vZTVI by Wolf480pl@niu.moe
2019-04-19T11:21:15Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kaniini @bamfic @sam @brainblasted Sounds intriguing. What was it about? Can you provide a link so that I can laught together with you^W^W^W^W learn what not to do?
(DIR) Post #9hxoBw6tmXM8L8OQpU by Wolf480pl@niu.moe
2019-04-19T11:23:10Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@kaniini @moonman there's also zulip
(DIR) Post #9hxoR5cahZe0BLRV5s by DetectiveHyde@shigusegubu.club
2019-04-19T11:25:57.545388Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kaniini by EXISTING you harm the people and world around you, you miserable fluoridated fuck
(DIR) Post #9hxrzuT4ShyvaVHiXg by succfemboi@iscute.moe
2019-04-19T12:05:50.560585Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Wolf480plzulip has better message threading but isn't decentralized currently. Maybe one could use that threading system for pleroma-chat and federate it with zulip but idk how that could be implemented on activitypub@moonman @kaniini
(DIR) Post #9hxtReXNNvSOF65ijI by Wolf480pl@niu.moe
2019-04-19T12:22:03Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@succfemboi @kaniini @moonman AFAIK it's no less decentralized than mattermost - no federation, but everyone can self-host a server for their own rooms
(DIR) Post #9hyJD6pGWYn2RUBV5c by DashEquals@linuxrocks.online
2019-04-19T03:08:13Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sam Yeah, I've been interested in trying to set up my own #Matrix server after the security breach... and WTF? This is like the hardest software in the world to install.Fails for tons of reasons, there isn't an official, easy to find guide, they didn't even have their downloads server up for a while, etc.@bamfic @kaniini
(DIR) Post #9hyJD7xoIHDdyHBq2y by swedneck@mastodon.technology
2019-04-19T17:07:01Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@DashEquals @sam @bamfic @kaniini It's really not that hard, the most difficult part is setting up postgres. If you want something really simple, use ansible: https://github.com/spantaleev/matrix-docker-ansible-deploy
(DIR) Post #9hyJD9YiMYKiv1SpCy by kaniini@pleroma.site
2019-04-19T17:10:30.432958Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@swedneck @DashEquals @sam @bamfic yeah, cool story, let me know when synapse stops going berzerk and consuming GBs of RAM for no reason
(DIR) Post #9hyJZ7yKwW6aMtvWEq by swedneck@mastodon.technology
2019-04-19T17:11:01Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kaniini @bamfic @DashEquals @sam It uh, it doesn't.. I'm running synapse just fine on a VPS with 4GB ram total.
(DIR) Post #9hyJZ8DE3A0z74tPRg by kaniini@pleroma.site
2019-04-19T17:14:28.441054Z
1 likes, 2 repeats
@swedneck @bamfic @DashEquals @sam yeah, cool story. i've had synapse spike up to 40GB RSS before trying to resolve what the current state of the DAG should be when a major server goes missing and then comes back.the entire DAG itself is extremely fragile, and there are many issues that matthew has not fixed that i haven't bothered to drop them to anyone. he was too quick to fix the untrustworthy recursion counter issue, just fixing that specific instance of the overarching design defect in matrix protocol, while not addressing any of the other untrustworthy values that can be manipulated.i feel bad for the french government, they got the chat protocol they deserve.
(DIR) Post #9hyKtFhk0IPK5zKAJk by knotteye@spacecowboy.cc
2019-04-19T17:29:34.790473Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@DashEquals @sam @bamfic @kaniini Don't. I self-hosted mine for a bit, it's not worth it. The only usable server software is synapse, which is buggy, bloated, RAM hungry piece of shit. Perhaps at works well at scale, but it's shit for self-hosting.I wouldn't hold out for better server software either, everyone who has tried has given up because apparently matrix.org keeps changing the s2s API.
(DIR) Post #9hyOI3wt9EUOjovoUy by swedneck@mastodon.technology
2019-04-19T18:04:33Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@dgold @bamfic @DashEquals @kaniini @sam IRC sucks though, it's confusing as fuck to use and doesn't even have profile pictures, not to mention file uploads and a bunch of other stuff that matrix has. Plus IRC isn't federated.
(DIR) Post #9hyOzIwZH0EhhCOuiO by knotteye@spacecowboy.cc
2019-04-19T18:15:30.393573Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@DashEquals @bamfic @kaniini @sam Oh, one more thing to add on the subject of self-hosting being shit with synapse. It's actually not enough to just host your own server software. You will still be reliant on the matrix.org infrastructure unless you jump through a bunch of other hoops that they kinda forget to tell you about.1) You need to host your own instance of Riot. It's the only good client, so you'll have to use it.2) Riot decrypts e2ee attachments off-site and then injects them back into the chat, so you'll need to host your own version of usercontent.riot.im3) You need to host your own identity server. MXISD is in a mostly usable state, but because of the way it handles email it's only realistic to use it with phone numbers.4) You also need to host your own turn server if you want VOIP to work without relying on public turnservers.
(DIR) Post #9hyP7c1KEL2tB5aU88 by sam@snack.social
2019-04-19T18:16:27.542280Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@knotteye @DashEquals @bamfic @kaniini >but because of the way it handles email it’s only realistic to use it with phone numbers.oh for fucks sake
(DIR) Post #9hyPPMlRgtXR4fcqjg by knotteye@spacecowboy.cc
2019-04-19T18:20:12.628560Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sam @DashEquals @bamfic @kaniini The best part is that it's not even a bug. MXISD is a federated identity server, but the only thing it knows how to federate is email. And the only way it knows how to federate them is by checking the domainpart of the email for another identity server.So basically you can't search an MXISD identity server for knotteye@gmail.com until gmail.com has an identity server hosted at that address.
(DIR) Post #9hyPWg1kTCkAqPjlXU by sam@snack.social
2019-04-19T18:21:16.149365Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@knotteye @DashEquals @bamfic @kaniini who the hell thought this was a sane designit’s actually a kind of good design, mozilla pioneered that with browserid/persona, but you need a legacy fallback with email verification
(DIR) Post #9hyQBNljG7e85debzM by sam@snack.social
2019-04-19T18:27:16.566770Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@knotteye @DashEquals @bamfic @kaniini actual matrix.org design meeting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GSV2kVkO1w
(DIR) Post #9hyQIZKWfmtLyQMBVY by knotteye@spacecowboy.cc
2019-04-19T18:30:11.818377Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sam @DashEquals @bamfic @kaniini To be fair to matrix, MXISD actually wasn't their creation. It's just the rest of the terrible infrastructure they created :^)
(DIR) Post #9hyXTOIeirM4d2ac1A by kaniini@pleroma.site
2019-04-19T19:50:25.196795Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kirschwipfel discord, not discourse
(DIR) Post #9hyXm8rwJo1EGy2CLA by dansup@mastodon.social
2019-04-18T23:41:21Z
2 likes, 1 repeats
@kaniini Yeah, FOSS projects using Slack is even worse imo
(DIR) Post #9hz27NqMprQRQDLNfE by bamfic@hub.spaz.org
2019-04-20T00:52:15.387049Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@knotteye @sam @DashEquals @kaniini i'm going to bet on matrix to be a success because it is so shitty, and has such a glossy ui. the shittiest thing always wins
(DIR) Post #9hz36cnppeVjTuMTNA by polaris@masto.polarisfm.net
2019-04-19T17:57:26Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@kaniini It's particularly jarring when the project claims to be "privacy focused," too.
(DIR) Post #9i58whIw0PYhDjJijI by wowaname@anime.website
2019-04-23T00:18:44.557050Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@sam @kaniini @owenthecat small nitpick: one cannot own a domain name either; under ICANN they can only be leased
(DIR) Post #9i5AY0j2rRpI7ft0jY by sam@snack.social
2019-04-23T00:35:42.950606Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@wowaname @owenthecat @kaniini pretty much, though still loads better a situation than phone numbers.if you really wanna go to the trouble there’s Namecoin, heh
(DIR) Post #9i5Uk3DtOoVoQXKk0O by dch@bsd.network
2019-04-23T04:21:09Z
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@sam @owenthecat @kaniini so… could a fedi protocol double up as a voip me@some.where? Ubiquitous Directory Services is what made the phone network really useful and it’s why goog and fb are dominant Internet services today
(DIR) Post #9i5Uk3WKIHG1LhxSjo by kaniini@pleroma.site
2019-04-23T04:22:14.627076Z
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@dch @owenthecat @sam that's what webfinger aims to accomplish
(DIR) Post #9i5h4lp6U9erzfNvRQ by anna@witches.live
2019-04-23T00:17:59Z
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@sam @owenthecat this is the problem i am having. i can be a software vegan all i want, and i agree with @kaniini , but like, the FOSS alternatives suck and nobody wants to use themwe really do need to come up with a federated discord, but xmpp and matrix are :OMEGALUL: levels of bad
(DIR) Post #9i5h4mRkAUZBvVSmfY by tomas@social.umeahackerspace.se
2019-04-23T06:40:41+00:00
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@anna Federated Discord exists already, it's IRC. IRCv3 especially is looking like it fixes a lot of shortcomings And as always, if even half the effort that went into developing Matrix went into improving some XMPP client (say Gajim) then we could just use that, perhaps bundle it with Prosody under some brand that makes it easier for j random user to talk about it. Like I dunno, "Harmony" as a play on Discord
(DIR) Post #9i5jvVb9jvYMvf8W3M by anna@witches.live
2019-04-23T06:47:37Z
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@tomas the uncomfortable truth is that discord's ease of use needs to be aped. matrix sucks ass because i am good at computers and couldn't join a server when i tried it and it will always suck ass if its more difficult to join a "Harmony" server than a Discord one
(DIR) Post #9i5jvVyuJcYI7KFU4e by tomas@social.umeahackerspace.se
2019-04-23T07:12:48+00:00
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@anna Correct me if I'm wrong, but part of Discord's onboarding is that it has a Web client, yes? Web-IRC and Web-XMPP are definitely things. It also seems part of Discord's success is due to spamming Reddit about it, which can also be done. And clients that cater to gamer-americans can always be written
(DIR) Post #9iApqfX9djLROJ1FxI by Redrock@mastodon.social
2019-04-25T09:38:41Z
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@samHave you seen the Matrix protocol? That is directly aimed at federated instant messaging and VoIP. https://about.riot.im@owenthecat @kaniini
(DIR) Post #9iApqgYbpo6QZ6hvrU by kaniini@pleroma.site
2019-04-25T18:12:41.162344Z
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@Redrock @owenthecat @sam it's also complete trash
(DIR) Post #9iNRZs8mnOFLoxYgDI by murabito@fedi.absturztau.be
2019-04-25T18:33:55.387813Z
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@sam @kaniini @owenthecat the thing i have a problem with is your mention of a "chicken and egg problem" which if you're referring to which came first, isn't really a problem. the egg came first. but aside from that i agree about the phone numbers especially. i didn't have a number at all for ages until february and it is a requirement for too many things. also, numbers change. i've had more than my share, for sure. but something needs to be done about the web as a whole imo.
(DIR) Post #9iNRZtO4A43zgdiOfY by khimaros@mastodon.social
2019-04-30T22:43:27Z
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@murabito @owenthecat @kaniini @sam -- OTOH, there was no money to be made in email when it was first created either.Perhaps there is another reason these new protocols don't stick? There is a massive proliferation of ideas and implementations of those ideas, which is great for exploring the range of possibility, but it makes it difficult for the average internet user (hell, even power users and other developers!) to keep up.
(DIR) Post #9iNRaBZ0a7Vm3myODw by khimaros@mastodon.social
2019-04-30T22:44:31Z
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@murabito @owenthecat @kaniini @sam Today, we have DAT, SSB, ActivityPub, LitePub, MicroPub, XMPP, Matrix, DeltaChat, Perkeep, ... with new derivations popping up with new implementations, new languages, or new toolkits on a weekly basis.
(DIR) Post #9iNRbEkcDWPyEbu4q8 by khimaros@mastodon.social
2019-04-30T22:45:26Z
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@murabito @owenthecat @kaniini @sam From where I'm sitting, the issue doesn't seem to be a lack of energy -- which money is really but a proxy for -- funneling into the problem. If anything, it's a lack of deep, structured collaboration. Something that was probably much easier when there were a few dozen people involved, often sharing meat space.
(DIR) Post #9ikwaC9DTCaRwYqZA8 by mmn@social.umeahackerspace.se
2019-05-13T04:17:01+00:00
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Please can you quantify what makes IRC/XMPP as protocols, free to implement as anyone wants, worse than the centrally controlled Discord, only implementable as Discord allows? Also: please explain something about !XMPP or IRC that is "hard to use" where Discord excels, but avoid anything that is so because Discord is centrally controlled (your desire was to have something federated, so be constructive).
(DIR) Post #9il196opfppxMvDTBw by dwaltiz@pleroma.soykaf.com
2019-05-13T05:08:53.835945Z
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@mmn @anna Discord has a "modern" web client. That's pretty much it.
(DIR) Post #9ilXmfRO56oWZc9mV6 by anna@witches.live
2019-05-13T05:34:40Z
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@mmn you click on a discord server link it just works. it has an easy registration flow, you don't even HAVE to register if you don't want to initially, and you don't need to know anything about federated vs centralized to just get connected and chat, you can paste in images and videos, the client isn't a confusing nightmare, while it lacks end to end encryption it also lacks the obnoxious, obtuse, and WAY overcomplicated interface that xmpp/matrix have for end to end encyption. also there's voice chat and it just works without much fuss.
(DIR) Post #9ilXmfd5NcAh9td7jc by mmn@social.umeahackerspace.se
2019-05-13T11:14:19+00:00
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You are spewing out shit about certain clients (not protocols, as I asked for) without even naming them. Which clients have you used for !XMPP that are so obnoxious?
(DIR) Post #9ilqhCxuQJ75wJTkZ6 by tomas@social.umeahackerspace.se
2019-05-13T14:46:24+00:00
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@anna You don't need to register to IRC either, and for XMPP you could certainly write a server that creates temporary users requiring nothing but username, via a nice Web UI. XMPP supports media attachments, so sillyness like stickers is just a matter of client stuff. Then there's Jingle for audio/video calls. OMEMO is a huge wart though, protocolwise. As @mmn not-so-diplomatically points out, these objections are really about client UX, not XMPP itself. So really, the solution is to apply perspiration to one or two of the more popular clients, to bring them up to user expectations..!
(DIR) Post #9ilqxpyb9HGbZ0jMHI by a_breakin_glass@cybre.space
2019-05-13T14:49:49Z
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@anna @mmn xmpp does have voice chat, it's just that it's not well supported, iirc
(DIR) Post #9ilqzWLv53iVHSRS4G by a_breakin_glass@cybre.space
2019-05-13T14:50:06Z
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@anna @mmn see: jitsi
(DIR) Post #9iltWqJi4fbafCQPom by mmn@social.umeahackerspace.se
2019-05-13T15:18:02+00:00
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Nothing you write is an argument against !xmpp as it fulfills all of these desires. Please remind me, how do you implement a new feature for Discord? Or maybe remove an antifeature that Discord requires you to use in order to take part of its heavenly bliss? Oh and what happens when Discord goes bankrupt, get bought up by a less benevolent (not that they're especially nice today...) market actor?
(DIR) Post #9ilvw8x67qrhbk2ZGa by anna@witches.live
2019-05-13T15:45:27Z
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@a_breakin_glass @mmn its certainly not "click on it and it works"
(DIR) Post #9ilwYDnUYn2vdehjaC by anna@witches.live
2019-05-13T15:41:41Z
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@mmn :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: if you're going to ask me questions then get mad i answered them then call it an argument, fuck off. nobody's going to be browbeaten into using a discord alternative that's a solidly worse and more confusing experience.
(DIR) Post #9ilwYDwM1q8S58qoOe by a_breakin_glass@cybre.space
2019-05-13T15:52:17Z
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@anna @mmn >a discord alternative that's a solidly worsedepends on your opinion of discord ;)
(DIR) Post #9ilwlFDGbkAXnHyDIW by anna@witches.live
2019-05-13T15:54:40Z
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@a_breakin_glass @mmn :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
(DIR) Post #9ilwuTFrlm7XwzaMlM by a_breakin_glass@cybre.space
2019-05-13T15:56:27Z
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@anna @mmn matrix, however, is firmly in the "discord alternative that's a solidly worse" category
(DIR) Post #9ily3RJCTVBsTUz9pg by a_breakin_glass@cybre.space
2019-05-13T16:09:16Z
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@anna @mmn riot.im has a horrible UX, is an electron monstrosity, and is the only practical client
(DIR) Post #9itFEliqdHSmnjQWZc by mmn@social.umeahackerspace.se
2019-05-17T04:23:38+00:00
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I don't see me getting mad. However, I'm afraid you haven't actually answered me, just ranted. You still haven't mentioned a single !xmpp client by name, unfortunately. Also, you said you thought we should make a "federated discord". But then you complain about features of federation as if they were downsides (client versatility, adaptability for various disabilities etc.). You claim centralised antifeatures as something positive. And you still haven't mentioned a single " obnoxious" !xmpp client. Just that they're all horrible. Despite single-click clients that Just Work(tm) are all over the place. Those are web based of course and work in the field all around us. And are federated, free and open source software. !fs Discord works for people who don't care about software freedom, privacy and security.