Post 9gRN2s3kMFeWQqF3Ue by beebs@queer.party
(DIR) More posts by beebs@queer.party
(DIR) Post #9gRKUtlLJrVXxaJ43k by packbat@dragon.style
2019-03-04T20:17:25Z
0 likes, 2 repeats
The admin of hackers.town recently posted https://hackers.town/@thegibson/101693197693941092 (cw: glancing allusion to prison rape) - a sampling of slides from a presentation in which they identified themself as a "Proud Member of FBI Infragard".For those not familiar, InfraGard is a non-profit "partnership between the FBI and members of the private sector" that "provides a vehicle for seamless public-private collaboration with government that expedites the timely exchange of information and promotes mutual learning opportunities relevant to the protection of Critical Infrastructure", according to its website (linked from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InfraGard which says much the same).As you might imagine, a great many people are upset that a large fediverse instance is being run by someone who describes themselves as proud to be involved in the funneling of information to the FBI, especially given the long history of FBI informants being made to infiltrate left-wing groups for spying and entrapment purposes. See for example https://berries.space/@undyne/101694112267233862 from @undyne.I think that probably gives everyone enough context to make decisions.
(DIR) Post #9gRMzD1QTfuuHuPUrQ by varx@infosec.exchange
2019-03-04T20:35:17Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@packbat Thanks for the explanation. But I confess I don't get it.What people post on the fediverse is basically public. Are people imagining that if they defederate this one instance where this one guy has publicly noted that he some kind of affiliation with the FBI... that various shadowy three-letter-agencies will suddenly *not* have the ability to the read their toaster memes and/or foment discord in the form of hot takes?
(DIR) Post #9gRN2s3kMFeWQqF3Ue by beebs@queer.party
2019-03-04T21:07:09Z
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@varx people just don't want to associate with or trust someone who works with cops. It has nothing to do with trying to protect ourselves from spying and everything to do with basic everyday avoidance of shitty people.
(DIR) Post #9gRN2sKPMIypGW2MSm by varx@infosec.exchange
2019-03-04T21:11:31Z
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@beebs That kind of makes sense... except I've followed TheGibson for a while and they seem like a nice person. The other denizens of hackers.town: Also nice, from what I've seen.Knowing that someone works with an organization that works with the FBI tells you literally nothing. Are they investigating phone scams that prey on the elderly? Surveilling activists? Researching financial fraud? You don't actually know.
(DIR) Post #9gRN2saMOzjy3zV6KO by beebs@queer.party
2019-03-04T21:14:02Z
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@varx you know that their judgment is so poor they are willing to work with a racist fascist gang, a fact that is particularly important when they aren't merely "working with" the fascist gang, but actually label themselves as a "Proud Member" of it.
(DIR) Post #9gRN2sjZqj74WZoSh6 by varx@infosec.exchange
2019-03-04T21:21:23Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@beebs I once made a phone call to the FBI to report that a relative had been scammed over the phone.If I managed to catch such a scammer and get their dox, I would *happily* work with the FBI to bring that scammer down.Does that mean that I have "poor judgment" and would "work with a racist, fascist gang"?
(DIR) Post #9gRN3D4WEZkRbJlT72 by beebs@queer.party
2019-03-04T21:37:13Z
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@varx do people who report scammers to the FBI call themselves "Proud Members of the FBI"?
(DIR) Post #9gRN3DE5ezP850F720 by varx@infosec.exchange
2019-03-04T21:39:50Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@beebs Kinda sensing a lack of good faith discussion here. Oh well.
(DIR) Post #9gRNBVD8g43MAtkbuS by bikecurious@whomst.dog
2019-03-04T20:36:22Z
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@packbat @undyne The other thing to be aware of is their intro statement (plus those slides) reads to me as though hackers.town is an instance solely focused on law abiding techbros that aren't rocking the boat and just want to bro down. Not a great look, and it sounds like we'll be blocking them soon :P
(DIR) Post #9gRNBVTng7Nf0ZXusa by Taris@gulp.cafe
2019-03-04T21:05:34Z
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@bikecurious @packbat @undyne hackers town isn't an FBI watering hole and to asert otherwise is to throw a good instance and all its users under a bus just to look good for anarchist wank offs. Gibson works in infosec and infraguard is a valuable resource. Further the information flow is generally one way, from the FBI to members, with Intel on cyber crime and other business hazards.
(DIR) Post #9gRNBViKo50TjeLWXA by lyliawisteria@todon.nl
2019-03-04T21:41:19Z
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@Taris which part of "fuck the police" do you have trouble understanding?@bikecurious @packbat @undyne
(DIR) Post #9gRNBW0lhXkgeoyFGa by Taris@gulp.cafe
2019-03-04T21:45:47Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@lyliawisteria @bikecurious @packbat @undyne hackers.town ain't the police
(DIR) Post #9gRNCK7vNDBY5UhfMW by lyliawisteria@todon.nl
2019-03-04T21:52:01Z
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@Taris working with the cops isn't really different from being a cop.@bikecurious @packbat @undyne
(DIR) Post #9gRNCKzSAC0GlVkPnU by USBloveDog@cybre.space
2019-03-04T21:57:51Z
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@lyliawisteria @Taris @bikecurious @packbat @undyne What kind of stunted reasoning is that?
(DIR) Post #9gRNMwgOsTjcYxtUS8 by lyliawisteria@todon.nl
2019-03-04T21:59:46Z
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@USBloveDog @Tarisuh oh here come the logic bros to defend cops. @bikecurious @packbat @undyne
(DIR) Post #9gRRzAae1FUeW3gTFA by packbat@dragon.style
2019-03-04T22:46:51Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
From @kaniini in https://pleroma.site/notice/9gRG15Nl5QQy0YZAeW----FBI InfraGard is a CERT-like organization that acts as a liaison between security researchers, vendors and entities which are considered critical infrastructure: banks, utilities, etc. It is a reasonably harmless organization which intends to do well but is controversial for a few reasons.The main reason it's controversial is due to being incubated by the FBI. The other main reason why it's controversial is because they wrap vulnerability discussions in a series of NDAs. InfraGard-coordinated vulnerabilities do not necessarily see public disclosure.Personally, I am not really a fan of InfraGard, for both the NDAs and FBI background: friends of mine have been burned by the FBI before when trying to ethically handle vulnerabilities.But this does not mean that somebody should be faulted for choosing to participate in InfraGard. At worst it just means they believe in something others don't.You wouldn't defederate someone for drinking chocolate milk out of a wine glass, right? InfraGard membership is, maybe at worst, the infosec equivalent of that type of social faux pas.When it comes to vulnerability disclosure though, I believe public disclosure is in the public interest. And, well, InfraGard doesn't. And that's the real controversy... they aren't cops or law enforcement of any kind.