Post 66642 by caela@bofa.lol
(DIR) More posts by caela@bofa.lol
(DIR) Post #65801 by thatcosmonaut@knzk.me
2018-09-17T22:02:25Z
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it's amazing how hostile many artists are to the idea of publicly funded art, i was having this discussion with someone he was like "oh then everyone will just want to get paid to make bad art" oh as opposed to our current system where you get paid to do some dumb bullshit all day and artists can only survive by having a day job or getting insanely lucky or only making shit with mass market appeal or being directly patronized by capitalists? honestly it just breaks my brain
(DIR) Post #65821 by AudreyJune@radical.town
2018-09-17T22:03:50Z
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@thatcosmonaut This always struck me as a thing UBI would help.
(DIR) Post #65824 by desitively@bofa.lol
2018-09-17T22:04:00Z
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@thatcosmonaut Best argument for publicly funding "bad artists": if we had done that throughout western history, Hitler would NEVER have gone into politics.
(DIR) Post #65827 by thatcosmonaut@knzk.me
2018-09-17T22:04:06Z
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so many liberals just have this obvious thinly veiled contempt for the working class and are horrified by the idea of normal ass people being able to do anything with their lives except work a cash register
(DIR) Post #65837 by thatcosmonaut@knzk.me
2018-09-17T22:04:52Z
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@desitively lmaooo
(DIR) Post #65854 by caela@bofa.lol
2018-09-17T22:06:09Z
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@thatcosmonaut A lot of artists are so invested in their final product that they only value that, as opposed to the labour that goes into it. Even then, since when is more art, good or bad, a negative, and since when has the market been a good filter for artistic quality? It's just the idea that you have to make it big or go bust - become glamorously successful, or not even bother. A lot of artists, a lot of people, can't see past that poisonously capitalist mentality.
(DIR) Post #65857 by thatcosmonaut@knzk.me
2018-09-17T22:06:27Z
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@AudreyJune i'm skeptical about UBI under capitalism for many reasons but i am in favor of the general idea of a system where *gasp* yes we just give people the resources they need to lead fulfilling lives
(DIR) Post #65864 by desitively@bofa.lol
2018-09-17T22:06:48Z
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@thatcosmonaut Hey, you know it's true. The Vienna Fine Arts Academy could have told him some lie and he would have spent his days cranking out bad postcard art on the public square and muttering about Jews under his breath like every other nutcase.
(DIR) Post #65887 by AudreyJune@radical.town
2018-09-17T22:08:05Z
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@thatcosmonaut Under capitalism I would probably want it paid for by LVT to avoid the issue of rent capturing a large majority of it.
(DIR) Post #65890 by p@freespeechextremist.com
2018-09-17T22:08:17.232087Z
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@caela Is trying to be the best a capitalist thing?
(DIR) Post #65903 by photophoregirl@knzk.me
2018-09-17T22:08:57Z
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@thatcosmonaut id rather live in a city full to bursting with goofy and amateurish but earnest sculptures and murals than one with more advertisements than art
(DIR) Post #65926 by thatcosmonaut@knzk.me
2018-09-17T22:10:21Z
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@photophoregirl :1000:
(DIR) Post #65927 by caela@bofa.lol
2018-09-17T22:10:21Z
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@p The dichotomy between an artistic great and the rest of the art-world definitely is. It's trying to fit in to a narrative, the goal of which is ultimately to get one's work sold at Sotheby's, appraised for millions. In postcapitalist society, this divide between great art and the rest of it would not be concrete, only subject to the decisions of the individual. Destroying that individualist conception of the artist should be at the core of revolutionary art.
(DIR) Post #66542 by p@freespeechextremist.com
2018-09-17T22:55:55.777605Z
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@caela I don't think there is much basis to say that "great" art is entirely subjective. Some aesthetic standards are hard-wired to an extent. Hieronymous Bosch vs. Damien Hirst.Some artists want a lottery ticket, but I think they grow out of it (unless they are Hirst).I can't say much about "revolutionary art", as I think you are talking revolution in the political sense, and I could never work up any interest in contemporary politically motivated art.
(DIR) Post #66566 by p@freespeechextremist.com
2018-09-17T22:57:49.481198Z
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@caela That is, I think nearly all politically motivated art belongs in the same category as nearly all commercially motivated art.
(DIR) Post #66598 by caela@bofa.lol
2018-09-17T23:00:09Z
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@p Personally, I think both Bosch and Hirst have great artworks, and that it is not that those that the art-world rewards are ingenuine (though they sometimes are), but it is in their selection comparative to other artists. Nothing necessarily makes them rise up above the rest but the name. As for hard-wired aesthetic standards, I disagree. Our understanding of art is deeply entangled in cultural semiotics & history, without which it would have no resonance or meaning.
(DIR) Post #66642 by caela@bofa.lol
2018-09-17T23:03:19Z
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@p Furthermore, one cannot disentangle political from commercial, and neither of those from art. All art is political, even art that seeks apoliticality (in some sense) will reject certain notions of what we accept to be political states-of-acceptance in our world. Art has always, or at least within recent history, served the interest of capital (for more in-depth analysis of how this applies to painting, see John Berger's programme "Ways of Seeing".)
(DIR) Post #67473 by p@freespeechextremist.com
2018-09-18T00:07:19.517362Z
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@caela If Hirst has anything good, I've never heard of it.Our basis for language is intertwined with culture, but there are hard-wired linguistic constructs. Aesthetics are similar: they vary, but the building blocks are present in the brain, and deeper than language, as we share some of our aesthetic sensibilities with other primates but very little linguistically. So independent of culture, there are patterns that resonate.
(DIR) Post #67586 by p@freespeechextremist.com
2018-09-18T00:15:35.013022Z
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@caela I am familiar with the theory, I just disagree with it. It's a totalizing reductionist viewpoint, a pretty direct outcropping of historical materialist interpretation. (If I could be glib, I don't think it explains cave paintings.) Art reflects values, and values include politics, but not all values are political.I think in general, so far Claude Levi-Strauss's work rings truer. "Myth and Meaning" is relatively short and serves as an introduction.