Post 645956 by 0gust1@mastodon.social
(DIR) More posts by 0gust1@mastodon.social
(DIR) Post #642178 by neauoire@sunbeam.city
2018-10-19T19:22:20Z
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By having the privilege to release open source software, I realized that I make it so others, who would otherwise make a living from their craft, cannot.
(DIR) Post #642228 by darius@friend.camp
2018-10-19T19:24:27Z
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@neauoire I mean, sort of? I couldn't be an effective for-pay programmer if I didn't have access to all the open source software out there. I think what I take exception to in this statement is the assumption that there is a zero sum game
(DIR) Post #642255 by selfsame@tiny.tilde.website
2018-10-19T19:26:16Z
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@neauoire it's not a zero sum game
(DIR) Post #642309 by neauoire@sunbeam.city
2018-10-19T19:28:55Z
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@darius I do too, and is why i keep doing what I do. I occasionally get these weird emails, like the one I'm looking at right now, where small companies(1-3 employees, usually abroad) feel undercut by some of the work that I do. What do you think I should say, I was gonna say "sorry", but I feel like you might have to deal with these before, I'd love to hear your take on this?
(DIR) Post #642333 by neauoire@sunbeam.city
2018-10-19T19:29:44Z
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@darius let's just assume that in this case, the tech does not rely on open source tools, I mean, besides gcc.
(DIR) Post #642390 by darius@friend.camp
2018-10-19T19:31:47Z
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@neauoire trying to remember if this has come up for me, I'll probably have an answer that I can stand behind within a day
(DIR) Post #642396 by neauoire@sunbeam.city
2018-10-19T19:32:09Z
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@darius I won't answer just yet. Thanks for taking the time.
(DIR) Post #642672 by PeteBleackley@wandering.shop
2018-10-19T19:43:10Z
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@neauoireI've released an open source library that another data scientist has used professionally.
(DIR) Post #642685 by neauoire@sunbeam.city
2018-10-19T19:43:39Z
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@PeteBleackley hey! Nice, I did too :)
(DIR) Post #642787 by freakazoid@retro.social
2018-10-19T19:48:49Z
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@neauoire @PeteBleackley There are vastly more users of any given piece of code than there are developers, and any given developer is able to have far more impact by being able to use open source code rather than having to license everything or reinvent the wheel. Releasing open source code has a strongly positive net impact on the world (on average).
(DIR) Post #642803 by neauoire@sunbeam.city
2018-10-19T19:49:27Z
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@freakazoid @PeteBleackley absolutely :) I wouldn't be doing what I do otherwise.
(DIR) Post #642861 by freakazoid@retro.social
2018-10-19T19:55:00Z
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@neauoire @PeteBleackley This reminds me of the "people who mow their own lawns are robbing gardeners of their right to be paid to mow lawns" argument.
(DIR) Post #642880 by neauoire@sunbeam.city
2018-10-19T19:56:33Z
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@freakazoid @PeteBleackley that's excellent, I think I can use that in my reply.
(DIR) Post #642887 by freakazoid@retro.social
2018-10-19T19:57:04Z
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@neauoire @PeteBleackley I'm not sure I'd reply at all.
(DIR) Post #642912 by neauoire@sunbeam.city
2018-10-19T19:58:49Z
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@freakazoid @PeteBleackley wait, no that doesn't quite apply. If I made a thing that mowed other people's lawn, and financed the development of that project by having access privileged funds, it would.I like that example tho.
(DIR) Post #643296 by dualhammers@sunbeam.city
2018-10-19T20:16:57Z
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@neauoire The structures that prevent people from living as they choose are bigger than your software. Directing any frustration at you is misdirection
(DIR) Post #643340 by neauoire@sunbeam.city
2018-10-19T20:19:05Z
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@dualhammers It's not the first time that I get this sort of flak, I'm trying to put together a sort of response to this sort of attack, I'll put it up on my site once I'm done.
(DIR) Post #643388 by dualhammers@sunbeam.city
2018-10-19T20:22:07Z
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@neauoire Interested to see what you come up with.
(DIR) Post #643871 by jere@sunbeam.city
2018-10-19T20:51:36Z
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@neauoire Octave exists, yet matlab is able to function all the same. If their tool is undermined by yours it's because they're developing the exact same thing and would clash with you even if yours were closed source. If they cannot develop something that is able to stand on its own against other pieces of software the problem is on their end.
(DIR) Post #644180 by KnowPresent@mastodon.social
2018-10-19T21:05:30Z
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@neauoire I'd say that FLOSS is a red herring here. Any competing commercial product with multiple entrants could be construed as taking bread from the mouths of the others. Do some people feel that any piece of software should be given some kind of special monopoly status?
(DIR) Post #644304 by neauoire@sunbeam.city
2018-10-19T21:10:35Z
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@KnowPresent That's a good point! Since I can afford not to be paid for it, I guess it's fine that nobody else does either. It's the disruptive thing to do. Although, I'll try to phrase my reply in a more eloquent way. I'm just trying to collect some thoughts for a reply to an email I have received.
(DIR) Post #644769 by darius@friend.camp
2018-10-19T21:33:34Z
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@neauoire thoughts:I think the question here is: how is this different from a rich competitor coming in and selling a clone of their software for $0.01 just to push them out of the market?
(DIR) Post #644807 by neauoire@sunbeam.city
2018-10-19T21:35:53Z
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@darius Exactly, it's basically where I'm at, trying to find in which ways I am not this actor, or at least in which way can I say that my work is ethically justified. This is maybe beyond the scope of me trying to politely reply to an email.
(DIR) Post #644960 by darius@friend.camp
2018-10-19T21:36:47Z
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@neauoire and it's not the same as undercutting because you are sharing your labor and they can build off it (assuming it's a commercial friendly license like MIT)as professionals they can offer customer service or a service-level agreement whereas you can't even guarantee updates or anythingthey can implement features that you don't offer or are out of scope for youthey can take on some liability for their software whereas you explicitly renounce liability
(DIR) Post #644961 by darius@friend.camp
2018-10-19T21:41:29Z
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@neauoire more harshly: if demand for their software is truly and completely subsumed by a part time project with no guarantee of future updates, perhaps they picked the wrong software to hang a business on and they should either stop or expand the scope of what they offer
(DIR) Post #644979 by neauoire@sunbeam.city
2018-10-19T21:42:21Z
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@darius YES, okay. That's precisely how I feel deep down, but I couldn't find the words.
(DIR) Post #645150 by amphetamine@social.wxcafe.net
2018-10-19T21:49:39Z
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@neauoire @darius you can synthesize the dialectic hereconsider that this is like a fight between airplane passengers over seat reclining amountsthe real villain is the airline company cutting corners on basic human needsnot that that analysis doesn't take you somewhere after that, either
(DIR) Post #645175 by darius@friend.camp
2018-10-19T21:50:49Z
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@amphetamine @neauoire right, as with everything the underlying problem is much bigger
(DIR) Post #645343 by freakazoid@retro.social
2018-10-19T21:59:32Z
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@neauoireIt was more the notion that people have a right to make money doing a specific thing.I think that it makes sense for people displaced by innovation to be compensated by redistributing some of the gains from that innovation to the people who are displaced. I don't think people have a right to not be undercut by individuals or small groups deciding to do something for free, though.@PeteBleackley
(DIR) Post #645363 by kragen@nerdculture.de
2018-10-19T22:00:34Z
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@neauoire Heh, that's nonsense. You make it so that others can use your software for free to make a better living from their craft :)
(DIR) Post #645460 by kragen@nerdculture.de
2018-10-19T22:05:24Z
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@neauoire @darius People have to work for a living because of scarcity. Free software diminishes scarcity. They're wishing you would create artificial scarcity so they can extract rents, impoverishing others to a greater extent than it enriches them. That would be a bad thing to do, although it's understandable that they would ask you to do it.
(DIR) Post #645554 by artsyhonker@sunbeam.city
2018-10-19T22:10:14Z
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@neauoire But you also make it so that people who couldn't otherwise use the software, can.
(DIR) Post #645646 by neauoire@sunbeam.city
2018-10-19T22:15:44Z
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@kragen @darius It would be super distasteful to tell them that.
(DIR) Post #645656 by neauoire@sunbeam.city
2018-10-19T22:15:58Z
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@artsyhonker :teal_heart: that's right :)
(DIR) Post #645848 by kragen@nerdculture.de
2018-10-19T22:24:14Z
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@neauoire @darius That's up to you. I don't think it would be bad for them to understand that what they're doing is immoral, but maybe you're not in a position to help them see that.
(DIR) Post #645956 by 0gust1@mastodon.social
2018-10-19T22:26:43Z
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@darius @neauoire another way, creator side, is to share freely the libraries /modules (not the full software itself). Others could build their own software on that (and making money with it).
(DIR) Post #645957 by neauoire@sunbeam.city
2018-10-19T22:27:59Z
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@0gust1 @darius I really want to keep releasing everything, I think it has value as a whole.
(DIR) Post #646202 by 0gust1@mastodon.social
2018-10-19T22:38:28Z
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@neauoire @darius the inalienable freedom of the creator ! I was only reporting some ways to make money around open-source.What software of yours they were talking about ?
(DIR) Post #646219 by artsyhonker@sunbeam.city
2018-10-19T22:39:09Z
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@neauoire This is why I release my music under a CC by-SA licence. I don't mind people using it to make money, if they can. I just don't want anyone to do this by imposing a monopoly; so, nobody gets one, not even me. And money isn't the primary barrier to people singing what I compose.
(DIR) Post #646264 by neauoire@sunbeam.city
2018-10-19T22:41:53Z
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@0gust1 @darius It's not even an app, it's a dialog/story engine for in-game dialogs I am working on with someone else.
(DIR) Post #646290 by neauoire@sunbeam.city
2018-10-19T22:42:45Z
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@artsyhonker I have this issue where people are re-selling my apps on the Kindle Store, and Android store because of that license tho.
(DIR) Post #646327 by artsyhonker@sunbeam.city
2018-10-19T22:45:35Z
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@neauoire naughty if unattributed...
(DIR) Post #651159 by juliebean@sunbeam.city
2018-10-20T06:21:08Z
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@neauoire would you fault a musician or a visual artist for posting their work online? different implementations of similar ideas from different artists/authors/developers are different and can have value. when i make a bowl or a mug and give it to a friend, i'm not taking food from the mouths of other ceramics artists.