Post 427593 by crushv@letsalllovela.in
(DIR) More posts by crushv@letsalllovela.in
(DIR) Post #426518 by Pyretta@girlcock.club
2018-10-08T07:35:55Z
1 likes, 2 repeats
Two things i'm seeing from Gargron here. One, no more custom emoji in screen names and two, incoming twitter style verification! If you run a default mastodon server cause you haven't the nousse otherwise, prepare for hell.
(DIR) Post #426519 by Pyretta@girlcock.club
2018-10-08T07:37:54Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
They're curating a database of "trusted users" who will be automatically verified on all default masto servers as far as i can tell.
(DIR) Post #426520 by redsPL@niu.moe
2018-10-08T07:47:22Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@Pyretta the best times of Mastodon('t) have passed. If they'll actually implement this, I'm moving to pleroma.What next, centralization?
(DIR) Post #426521 by roka@pl.smuglo.li
2018-10-08T07:51:11.010413Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@redsPL @Pyretta i guess gargamel feels like le network is slipping out of his control lolNot surprising in the slightest tbhserveimage.jpg
(DIR) Post #426573 by igeljaeger@the.hedgehoghunter.club
2018-10-08T08:00:05.128802Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@redsPL @Pyretta b-but pleroma is for RACISTS!!1 :cirnoHeh:
(DIR) Post #426596 by Pyretta@girlcock.club
2018-10-08T08:01:48Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@igeljaeger @redsPL that's what the neo blue checkmarks (who will all be white) will scream
(DIR) Post #426641 by crushv@letsalllovela.in
2018-10-08T08:11:53.984535Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Pyretta read through his recent posts and it does seem he doesnt like custom emotes in usernames but i didnt see anything about a "trusted user" database
(DIR) Post #426651 by Pyretta@girlcock.club
2018-10-08T08:12:35Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@crushv hmmm. It's what the whole verification links thing seems to be pointing to.
(DIR) Post #426652 by crushv@letsalllovela.in
2018-10-08T08:13:25.692179Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Pyretta no? rel=me has nothing to do with a database, all it does is let you verify that the stuff you link to in your bio is owned by you
(DIR) Post #426703 by Pyretta@girlcock.club
2018-10-08T08:15:30Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@crushv well i'm SOL cause the site i link to while it is my account there, i don't own it. Suddenly it gets treated like a scam link.
(DIR) Post #426704 by crushv@letsalllovela.in
2018-10-08T08:19:36.738796Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Pyretta i didnt mean the whole site, how it works is that say you want to prove that the pixelfed account you link to on your mastodon bio is yoursyou link to your mastodon account on your pixelfed account (say pixelfed.social/@pyretta) and mark it as "you", this creates the html tag <a href="girlcock.club/@pyretta" rel="me">mastodon</a> on your pixelfed profile pagethen when you add the link pixelfed.social/@pyretta on your mastodon profile, your mastodon instance will fetch pixelfed.social/@pyretta and look for links with the rel="me" attribute. once it finds that link back to your mastodon account with rel="me" it sees that as verification and marks the *link* as verifiedthis has never been about verifying users, only about verifying linksand in this example, you dont own pixelfed.social yet the verification process still works. hell, this even works with twitter.
(DIR) Post #426738 by crushv@letsalllovela.in
2018-10-08T08:22:31.637088Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Pyretta if you want the site you link to to allow link verification, ask the owner of that site to add rel="me" linking and add a link back to your masto account on that site
(DIR) Post #426763 by Pyretta@girlcock.club
2018-10-08T08:23:32Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@crushv lmao check the link in my bio, i wouldn't get heard. Whoo, screwing over sex workers. This is how it always starts.
(DIR) Post #426764 by crushv@letsalllovela.in
2018-10-08T08:25:04.621448Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Pyretta i still dont think that not having link verification is gonna screw anyone over thoughits not verification of a *user*, it does not elevate (or demote) people
(DIR) Post #426773 by crushv@letsalllovela.in
2018-10-08T08:26:30.845572Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Pyretta besides you can still do "manual" link verification if youd like (which is what i do because pleroma doesnt support rel="me" yet), i just link to my fedi account from my gitlab and ppl can verify by hand if theyd likethis verified links thing is just a nicety, id love for another opinion on how it screws people over though
(DIR) Post #426789 by Pyretta@girlcock.club
2018-10-08T08:26:43Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@crushv if you're verifying links, you're handling a lot of data on valid/invalid links. Inevitably techdouches like Gargleballs decide the best thing to do is filter out invalid links and police people and suddenly i'm fucked.
(DIR) Post #426790 by crushv@letsalllovela.in
2018-10-08T08:28:03.631853Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Pyretta ...thats not how link validation works. it *only* works on the rel="me" attribute, people would raise hell if gargamel suddenly started saying which domains are valid or invalid
(DIR) Post #426804 by Pyretta@girlcock.club
2018-10-08T08:28:29Z
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@crushv it gives techdouches the power to elevate or demote people depending on whether it's valid to their standards.
(DIR) Post #426805 by crushv@letsalllovela.in
2018-10-08T08:30:25.725055Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Pyretta you keep saying that this will elevate/demote *people* but i still dont understand how that'll happen, even in a worst case scenario where some links are hidden in people's profiles (which i doubt will happen)
(DIR) Post #426811 by Pyretta@girlcock.club
2018-10-08T08:29:24Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@crushv if the link shows as not having rel=me however, automated systems could be built to remove/hide that link.
(DIR) Post #426812 by crushv@letsalllovela.in
2018-10-08T08:31:00.331635Z
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@Pyretta but you can build automated systems to filter out links that are from "untrusted domains" right now, no one's doing it because its an asshole move
(DIR) Post #426821 by Pyretta@girlcock.club
2018-10-08T08:31:36Z
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@crushv it gives systems the information on which people have what links with or without rel=me do you really think techbros wouldn't abuse that to rank people.
(DIR) Post #426822 by crushv@letsalllovela.in
2018-10-08T08:32:54.196278Z
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@Pyretta i think they would if the fediverse was a silicon valley startup but people here have the freedom to use the software they'd like. the fediverse isnt restricted to mastodon (i run this pleroma instance and its perfect!)
(DIR) Post #426826 by Pyretta@girlcock.club
2018-10-08T08:32:19Z
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@crushv you think techbros like gargron care? Hell no that bullshit'll get built in to base masto to screw over people like me.
(DIR) Post #426827 by crushv@letsalllovela.in
2018-10-08T08:33:50.903179Z
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@Pyretta because its all open source software, even if gargron implements some bullshit like this people will just fork and leave him in the dust
(DIR) Post #426832 by Pyretta@girlcock.club
2018-10-08T08:34:00Z
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@crushv yeah but some of us don't have the knowhow to run instances like that. Think of us plebians stuck on masto cause we dont know coding.
(DIR) Post #426833 by crushv@letsalllovela.in
2018-10-08T08:34:53.869216Z
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@Pyretta you dont have to run your own pleroma instance to use pleroma...heres a list of all pleroma instances, most of which are open registration http://distsn.org/pleroma-instances.html
(DIR) Post #426878 by Pyretta@girlcock.club
2018-10-08T08:36:02Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@crushv if i can't run my own i'll eventually be run out of all of them because of Internet Culture
(DIR) Post #426879 by crushv@letsalllovela.in
2018-10-08T08:38:05.852526Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Pyretta then why do you use a mastodon instance that you dont run?side note pleroma is so much easier to run all it requires is elixir and postgresmastodon requires ruby + rails, sidekiq, postgres, and node(iirc?) and its a nightmare to run (ive honestly never been able to get it running)
(DIR) Post #426887 by Pyretta@girlcock.club
2018-10-08T08:34:37Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@crushv other techbros will go around adding it to the other forks, i've seen this happen before.
(DIR) Post #426888 by Pyretta@girlcock.club
2018-10-08T08:38:20Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@crushv what always happens is this: shitty techbro one in opensource adds horrible thing. People fork. Other techbros add horrible thing to any fork they can find and keep doing so and harrasing the forkers till they give up and horrible thing is omnipresent.
(DIR) Post #426889 by crushv@letsalllovela.in
2018-10-08T08:38:53.162100Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Pyretta could you give an example of this? ive not seen this happen before...
(DIR) Post #426936 by Pyretta@girlcock.club
2018-10-08T08:40:24Z
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@crushv i saw it happen a lot in minecraft modding of all things on github. Between social clout used to harrass forkers and constant editing of forks, techbros always win because the system is built by and for them.
(DIR) Post #426937 by crushv@letsalllovela.in
2018-10-08T08:44:43.699629Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Pyretta guess it is an issue in some spaces, but seriously there is a large spectrum of people working on fediverse software
(DIR) Post #426973 by Pyretta@girlcock.club
2018-10-08T08:45:35Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@crushv they'll be pursued and harried and messed with till there isn't. If techbros want this to be another datafarm there's no stopping them.
(DIR) Post #426974 by crushv@letsalllovela.in
2018-10-08T08:49:04.049384Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Pyretta if youre so cynical of this platform, why do you use it? honest question
(DIR) Post #427007 by Pyretta@girlcock.club
2018-10-08T08:51:17Z
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@crushv cause i aint got no other choice for a social life being as isolated as i am in the countryside. No other way of networking with other queer folks. I put up with Twitter for ages cause of that. And i'm more cynical of open source, which is basically set up to allow techbros to harrass and mess with anyone who tries to stop them doing what they want.
(DIR) Post #427008 by Pyretta@girlcock.club
2018-10-08T08:52:50Z
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@crushv also that question is arrogant and privileged as fuck.
(DIR) Post #427009 by crushv@letsalllovela.in
2018-10-08T08:53:17.629761Z
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@Pyretta sorry yeah, i just kinda got frustrated because the conversation was running in circles
(DIR) Post #427020 by crushv@letsalllovela.in
2018-10-08T08:54:26.403767Z
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@Pyretta im not sure how open source is more techbro oriented though, rms started the movement because of frustration with corporate lock in and everything, the whole point of the free software movement is *freedom*
(DIR) Post #427021 by wowaname@anime.website
2018-10-08T08:54:26.305920Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@Pyretta says the arrogant as fuck person@crushv
(DIR) Post #427086 by redsPL@niu.moe
2018-10-08T08:40:13Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@igeljaeger @Pyretta so what?
(DIR) Post #427096 by Pyretta@girlcock.club
2018-10-08T08:55:56Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@crushv freedom for techbros to harrass people for doing things they don't like, freedom to break other people's projects, freedom to use privilege and clout to get away with it by bawwing when it happens to you. Freedom that is blind to power dynamics is horror.
(DIR) Post #427097 by Pyretta@girlcock.club
2018-10-08T08:57:26Z
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@crushv besides most open source is "I want to be the one building unfair oppresive architecture and datafarms and making money and fame off it instead of corporations".
(DIR) Post #427098 by crushv@letsalllovela.in
2018-10-08T08:59:43.892989Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Pyretta that may be true of some open source projects, but im talking specifically about the free software movement[1], under which both mastodon and pleroma fall (they use the agplv3 license which is an FSF license)open source just means you can read and modify the code, free software movement declares absolute and permanent freedom (for example, you cant take mastodon or pleroma and make them closed source for your own nefarious purposes because of the license)[1] https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.html
(DIR) Post #427138 by Pyretta@girlcock.club
2018-10-08T09:01:31Z
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@crushv no but you can break everyone else's fork, slander anyone who tries to change it, and keep doing so till you kill the competition. This is why open source is techbro heaven. They can bully everyone else and force their shit in and get away with it.
(DIR) Post #427139 by crushv@letsalllovela.in
2018-10-08T09:02:38.620636Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Pyretta this is true of both sides though, for example theres a large narrative that the pleroma devs support nazis? theres this constant undertone of slander but we push through and still have wholesome user experiences
(DIR) Post #427170 by Pyretta@girlcock.club
2018-10-08T09:04:23Z
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@crushv i mean what i am saying is literal nazis could make their own fork of pleroma, break all the other forks, harrass the pleroma devs until they leave, and then have sole control of pleroma without licensing it because in open source there's no protection against that.
(DIR) Post #427171 by crushv@letsalllovela.in
2018-10-08T09:05:12.252882Z
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@Pyretta wait how could nazis break all other forks?
(DIR) Post #427187 by wowaname@anime.website
2018-10-08T09:06:13.391277Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@crushv @Pyretta sheer techbro power, duh
(DIR) Post #427206 by Pyretta@girlcock.club
2018-10-08T09:05:56Z
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@crushv there needs to be protections against privileged assholes leveraging their privilege for control. Total freedom isn't enough. It isn't enough for them that they can do their own thing, they need to come and steal and break your thing and drive you out. That's how techbros tick.
(DIR) Post #427207 by crushv@letsalllovela.in
2018-10-08T09:07:34.425581Z
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@Pyretta thats why there are often multiple maintainers and stuff, its one of the things i dislike about mastodon because gargron is the sole key holder.how could these hypothetical nazis edit code that they dont have control over tho :Thinkfusing:
(DIR) Post #427232 by crushv@letsalllovela.in
2018-10-08T09:10:03.745583Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Pyretta i guess the only real danger here is being bullied into changing your code, but thats one of the reasons im anon on here, i can work on whatever open source stuff i want to and if people want to shit on me for it, so be it. they wont be able to actually affect my life
(DIR) Post #427255 by Pyretta@girlcock.club
2018-10-08T09:10:20Z
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@crushv either by getting on the dev team, or by distributing broken forks claiming to be the real thing so people get tricked into harrassing the devs.
(DIR) Post #427256 by crushv@letsalllovela.in
2018-10-08T09:11:30.016445Z
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@Pyretta but that can easily be remedied by having a central place where your trusted code is coming from, like a git repo
(DIR) Post #427266 by Pyretta@girlcock.club
2018-10-08T07:49:01Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@redsPL bet you trusted users won't be muteable or bannable.
(DIR) Post #427268 by crushv@letsalllovela.in
2018-10-08T09:12:15.410427Z
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@Pyretta ive actually seen the thing youre talking about happen with minecraft mods myself but that was because in the minecraft community most people got their dists from forum posts and such, in other areas such as on the fedi everything is more organized so the chances of this happening are slim
(DIR) Post #427336 by Ocean22@niu.moe
2018-10-08T09:17:46Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Pyretta @crushv Why would anyone even want to verify links at all in the first place. You can just read the link...
(DIR) Post #427342 by Pyretta@girlcock.club
2018-10-08T09:13:55Z
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@crushv so they create another git repo that looks similar, or rely on people being ignorant of that shit. Because vulnerable people don't actually own or have any control over their work, they can get fucked over hard on a social, rather than technical level. The fediverse was a small curiousity until techbros realised they could make a thing out of it and Gargron came along with mastodon, claiming credit for it all and because of social dynamics people believe him!
(DIR) Post #427343 by crushv@letsalllovela.in
2018-10-08T09:17:57.599192Z
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@Pyretta even the most vulnerable and oppressed people can be powerful on the internet.Ive also never seen gargron claim it's all him actually, rather I've seen ignorant people claim that because they can't grasp the idea that mastodon isn't the only software on the fediverse
(DIR) Post #427344 by Ocean22@niu.moe
2018-10-08T09:18:03Z
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@Pyretta @crushv Just don't use link shorteners
(DIR) Post #427356 by Ocean22@niu.moe
2018-10-08T09:18:51Z
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@Pyretta @crushv (and if a link shortener is use, I just won't click it anyways, I don't care if it has some bootleg looking checkmark next to it, that means nothing at all.)
(DIR) Post #427427 by Pyretta@girlcock.club
2018-10-08T09:20:30Z
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@crushv social dynamics and culture still exist on the internet. A black woman starts shit on here about a popular white guy and even if she's right, she'll still be disbelieved and chased off.
(DIR) Post #427428 by crushv@letsalllovela.in
2018-10-08T09:22:02.376389Z
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@Pyretta true, but this is also why I'm anonymous on here. I'm considered by many to be a part of an oppressed group (which is true IRL) but I don't scream my identity online so no one gives me shit for it.
(DIR) Post #427497 by Pyretta@girlcock.club
2018-10-08T09:27:28Z
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@crushv even so social dynamic shapes your behaviour and language which could out you if a techbro decides to steal your work and claim it as his own, and you don't sound like a techbro when you try and set the record straight.
(DIR) Post #427498 by crushv@letsalllovela.in
2018-10-08T09:29:17.127151Z
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@Pyretta its not hard to emulate how the tehcbros talk...
(DIR) Post #427532 by Pyretta@girlcock.club
2018-10-08T09:30:53Z
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@crushv yeah then they just position themselves as a white techbro and then either you out yourself or remain a faceless nobody that no one will listen to.
(DIR) Post #427533 by crushv@letsalllovela.in
2018-10-08T09:32:13.095819Z
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@Pyretta the beauty of all of this is that you can write code and turn yourself from a faceless nobody into somebody that people listen toyou could be the most marginalized person on the planet but if you write good code and push it out there people will respect you
(DIR) Post #427592 by Pyretta@girlcock.club
2018-10-08T09:37:28Z
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@crushv until someone posing as a white techbro who knows shit comes along with their following and trashes you, putting out their own worse code that they claim is better and because of their cultivated mystique people believe them. Social dynamic cannot be ignored- it must be fought.
(DIR) Post #427593 by crushv@letsalllovela.in
2018-10-08T09:38:44.167031Z
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@Pyretta in this example both parties are presenting as white techbros though, so how would one be able to trash the other?
(DIR) Post #427644 by Pyretta@girlcock.club
2018-10-08T09:40:17Z
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@crushv Because one has just been facelessly pushing out code, but the other has a mystique of "knowing" around them because they opine on stuff, and then people listen to them because they're supposedly knowledgeable. There is a mystique of coding that requires one to essentially front as an arrogant white techbro who Knows Things (even if they don't) or you're a target for said group.
(DIR) Post #427645 by crushv@letsalllovela.in
2018-10-08T09:42:49.866178Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Pyretta ok whatever this has drifted from a conversation about the dangers of freedom of expression in free software to ranting about all powerful techbrosyou can go live in fear of them while I go write code and fight them
(DIR) Post #427679 by Pyretta@girlcock.club
2018-10-08T09:43:54Z
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@crushv I'm ranting about the social dynamics that allow total horseshit to happen whilst you try your damndest to ignore them and claim you actually can just circumvent them. Have fun when the assholes discover this account and out you as not a white techbro and you don't achieve shit cause you're trying to fight them on their own ground.
(DIR) Post #427680 by crushv@letsalllovela.in
2018-10-08T09:45:33.566882Z
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@Pyretta luckily I'm fighting them by contributing to projects that compete with their stuff instead of trying to work with them, this way I don't even have to interact with them
(DIR) Post #427704 by Pyretta@girlcock.club
2018-10-08T09:46:27Z
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@crushv You'll get run off those projects and no one will use them because they'll trash you and promote their own stuff. Who you are is as important to the consumer under current cultural power dynamic as the actual quality.
(DIR) Post #427705 by crushv@letsalllovela.in
2018-10-08T09:47:42.703228Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Pyretta Ive never seen someone get run off of fediveree software development because they weren't a techbro
(DIR) Post #427738 by crushv@letsalllovela.in
2018-10-08T09:52:02.610206Z
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@Pyretta if you want to continue this later you can but im going to sleep
(DIR) Post #428688 by Othinus@pl.smuglo.li
2018-10-08T10:59:13.511532Z
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@roka @redsPL @Pyretta >database of trusted accounts>twitter verificationCan Eugen and his band of merry cock suckers hardfork OStatus into something totally incompatible and leave permanently? Let them drown in their own problems with no association to the rest of the world.
(DIR) Post #428689 by roka@pl.smuglo.li
2018-10-08T12:01:32.706976Z
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@Othinus @redsPL @Pyretta afaik they only maintain token ostatus compat now
(DIR) Post #433124 by che5hire@letsalllovela.in
2018-10-08T16:53:18.272293Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Pyretta @crushvYes, a bigoted social structure can form in any community, I just fail to see how an open-source project would be any worse in this regard. If you get kicked from a free project you can just fork it and create your own with like-minded individuals. Yes that can also apply to people who were kicked for legitimate reasons but you can just not support those projects. With a propitiatory project you can't really do anything about that and you're SOL if you don't like the project maintainers. If they add something problematic to the TOS or they add a malicious bit of code you just have to live with that or stop using the software. Open-source and federated projects like this are also really good at preventing censorship of any kind allowing you to expose these terrible devs without them really having any control over what you can post. If they try to censor what you can see? Just move.Also with the comparisons to the Minecraft modding community most of that community is a lot younger than most coding communities, usually in their angstey hormone filled teens which (while that doesn't excuse them from being so terrible) is why that kind of culture exists.By supporting libre and open-source you're giving more control to the people who are unable to join the corporate IT world due to social taboos, stigmas, etc. Yeah, at the end of the day it does support the silicon valley as they use said software as well but you prevent them from dictating how or why you use those tools and it's just a win-win for everyone.