Post 414787 by DetectiveHyde@thechad.zone
(DIR) More posts by DetectiveHyde@thechad.zone
(DIR) Post #342054 by DetectiveHyde@thechad.zone
2018-10-03T06:19:02.319717Z
3 likes, 1 repeats
I feel deeply ashamed of my ignorance. I had no idea that the Anarchist movement in Spain SUCCESSFULLY governed Catalonia for part of the 20th century, resisting Franco before ultimately being crushed by - ironically - the Communists. Both industrial and rural society experienced success under anarchism, with factory productivity improved (albeit, not without problems.) It seems that the usual lazy bundling of causes like Vegetarianism and Nudism in with Anarchism was in effect but - at least at a glance - this all seems to have been voluntary. I have very strong feelings upon learning this:1: My utter disgust at Communists has only been reinforced. Bakunin was right about Marx. He was nothing but a proposer of totalitarian rule, his "transition phases" are bullshit, and Fascism (the idea that all endeavour must be in service of the state) is a PREREQUISITE FOR COMMUNISM. Communists are just a subset of Fascists. I reject utterly the placatory "goal" of "Real Communism™" at the end of Marxism. Yes, it's been tried, in that you tried hard to get there. And it failed every time. Unlike Anarchism, apparently. 2: Which brings me to my second point: I consider myself educated and reasonably well read and yet I had literally no idea that any of this had taken place. I had "Fascism bad" rammed down my throat for my whole life and the Spanish Civil War was ALWAYS presented to me as "Fascists vs Communists", which is ever the Communist narrative. (Woo guys you "won WW2!" And all it cost you was millions of dead workers, but who cares, right? You've always considered those expendable.) I take this as an indication that Bakunin and Evola, as WILDLY different as they are, were both right on the money when they said that Marxists simply want to replace one bourgeoisie with another - and look how trendy Communism is among the bourgeoisie of today! Both "left" and "right" wing governments alike have benefitted from sweeping Spanish and Catalan anarchism under the carpet, and anything covered up BEGS for examination.3: It actually does seem that "old Anarchism " has always been opposed to capitalism, markets, money and property (which it regards as distinct from possessions, though I believe this terminology is confusing and clumsy.) Anarcho-capitalism really does seem to be a product of 20th century market liberalist thinking. I do not believe this makes Anarchism "fundamentally left wing" though. Personally, I see Anarcho-capitalism as a well meaning (at least on behalf of its "powerless" proponents - it certainly seems to have some rich and megolamaniacal ones who just want more freedom to use their artificial "power") but ultimately flawed philosophy that commits the error of failing to recognise that the architecture of oppression does not have to be statist in nature. I accept Bakunin's point that "owning" large tracts of land or large pools of resources effectively brings about tyranny, and this is the ultimate product of markets - perhaps even of currency.4: As much as I admire these Spanish and Catalan anarchists, I do not think I would like to live in their world, or at least, the industrial side of it. I like Rousseau's description of the "sweet spot" in which a person has "natural freedom" but still sociability, but I agree with Anarchists when they reject his assertion that the trade of "natural freedom" for "civic freedom" is inevitable and justified. Unlike Anarchists, however, I do not believe that Rousseau's sweet spot is possible without space, depopulation, and rampant nature. I do not have a practical solution for this beyond going innawoods and ignoring the vast enslaved world outside.5: To anyone who thinks it's cool to shit on Catalan independence: Fuck you. You're as bad as people who shit on Tibetan independence.Tl;dr: "The people's flag is deepest black, the red one's for the bureaucrats."
(DIR) Post #342080 by djabadu@plz.nobulli.me
2018-10-03T06:22:33.497095Z
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@DetectiveHyde catalan independence the same as Tibet xD
(DIR) Post #342128 by DetectiveHyde@thechad.zone
2018-10-03T06:29:30.010903Z
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@djabadu Spain doesn't brutally oppress Catalonia the same way China oppresses Tibet, but they're both cases in which a natural population is politically, historically, culturally, and even to a degree, ethnically and religiously distinct from its host nation, and yet despite repeated expression of the will to self-determine they are "not allowed to leave."I would feel the same had Scotland voted to leave the UK and been overruled by Westminster.This was a minor point in my post but basically I am out of patience with people who think imperialism is cool, hence my shitting on the Romans lately also.
(DIR) Post #342135 by orekix@pl.smuglo.li
2018-10-03T06:30:12.014339Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@DetectiveHyde thank you for this, I just got more interested in learning about the independent movement in Catalonia
(DIR) Post #342139 by ayy@pl.smuglo.li
2018-10-03T06:27:48.755328Z
2 likes, 1 repeats
@DetectiveHyde Regarding "just replace the elite"https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/28/world/asia/china-maoists-xi-protests.htmlChinese students tries to unionize factory workers with poor conditions. Communist party cracks down.
(DIR) Post #342147 by DetectiveHyde@thechad.zone
2018-10-03T06:30:49.961493Z
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@ayy Yep, big surprise there!
(DIR) Post #342148 by deorsum@pleroma.tempus.tk
2018-10-03T06:27:05.194486Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@DetectiveHyde Did you read Orwell's Homage to Catalonia? It contains his first hand account of his experiences as an international volunteer fighting there, getting wounded, and then escaping by the skin of his teeth when the communists crushed the organisation he was fighting for. I think it's one of his best works, and yes, he does go extensively into the petty conflicts between the different organisations on the left and what tore them apart in the end.
(DIR) Post #342162 by DetectiveHyde@thechad.zone
2018-10-03T06:33:36.024088Z
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@deorsum I haven't, no! I was aware that he fought in the Spanish Civil War and that it gave him a hatred of both Communism and Fascism but I never knew precisely why, partially because I DIDN'T EVEN KNOW THERE WERE ANARCHISTS FIGHTING IN IT.I'll take the time to read (or listen to - my job gives ample time for audiobooks) it.
(DIR) Post #342190 by DetectiveHyde@thechad.zone
2018-10-03T06:38:37.727117Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@orekix No worries, I'm still very ignorant on it. I actually only really started thinking about it again after @alfred was talking about Cascadia.
(DIR) Post #342192 by ayy@pl.smuglo.li
2018-10-03T06:31:07.891765Z
2 likes, 1 repeats
@DetectiveHyde @djabadu there was some serious shit going on in spain when catalonia was gonna vote for independence. they didn't go full china, but they did shut down lots of internet and beat up a bunch of people if I remember correctly.
(DIR) Post #342197 by orekix@pl.smuglo.li
2018-10-03T06:39:40.989778Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@DetectiveHyde @alfred I'm pinging @dtluna for insight too
(DIR) Post #342202 by DetectiveHyde@thechad.zone
2018-10-03T06:40:48.057614Z
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@ayy @djabadu Yep, as well as arrest the Catalan government.I dislike any point in history at which people want to leave a state or union and are told they're not allowed. It's why I have more sympathies than most with the Confederacy in the American civil war, and I resent the characterisation of it as a war that was exclusively about slavery.
(DIR) Post #342209 by DetectiveHyde@thechad.zone
2018-10-03T06:42:18.659519Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@orekix @alfred @dtluna Why not, perhaps this is finally the time when we can have a meaningful conversation.
(DIR) Post #342233 by deorsum@pleroma.tempus.tk
2018-10-03T06:38:05.120506Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@DetectiveHyde >As much as I admire these Spanish and Catalan anarchists, I do not think I would like to live in their worldOrwell describes the magical first few months when the anarchists took over Barcelona and there was this almost utopian moment where all the old hierarchies were discarded and people treated each other as equals rather than what their ranks entitled them to. So you have officers in the army not giving instructions as superiors and instead eliciting discussions with his subordinates, waiters and customers acting on equal grounds and so on. Of course, this can never last, but for those fleeting moments when it did it was something truly special and it must have made a deep impression on Orwell.
(DIR) Post #342362 by deorsum@pleroma.tempus.tk
2018-10-03T06:39:37.452321Z
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@DetectiveHyde Here's the passage, just for reference."This was in late December, 1936, less than seven months ago as I write, and yet it is a period that has already receded into enormous distance. Later events have obliterated it much more completely than they have obliterated 1935, or 1905, for that matter. I had come to Spain with some notion of writing newspaper articles, but I had joined the militia almost immediately, because at that time and in that atmosphere it seemed the only conceivable thing to do. The Anarchists were still in virtual control of Catalonia and the revolution was still in full swing. To anyone who had been there since the beginning it probably seemed even in December or January that the revolutionary period was ending; but when one came straight from England the aspect of Barcelona was something startling and overwhelming. It was the first time that I had ever been in a town where the working class was in the saddle. Practically every building of any size had been seized by the workers and was draped with red flags or with the red and black flag of the Anarchists; every wall was scrawled with the hammer and sickle and with the initials of the revolutionary parties; almost every church had been gutted and its images burnt. Churches here and there were being systematically demolished by gangs of workmen. Every shop and café had an inscription saying that it had been collectivised; even the bootblacks had been collectivised and their boxes painted red and black. Waiters and shop-walkers looked you in the face and treated you as an equal. Servile and even ceremonial forms of speech had temporarily disappeared. Nobody said ‘Señor’ or ‘Don’ or even ‘Usted’; everyone called everyone else ‘Comrade’ and ‘Thou’, and said ‘Salud!’ instead of ‘Buenos días’. Almost my first experience was receiving a lecture from an hotel manager for trying to tip a lift-boy. There were no private motor cars, they had all been commandeered, and all the trams and taxis and much of the other transport were painted red and black. The revolutionary posters were everywhere, flaming from the walls in clean reds and blues that made the few remaining advertisements look like daubs of mud. Down the Ramblas, the wide central artery of the town where crowds of people streamed constantly to and fro, the loudspeakers were bellowing revolutionary songs all day and far into the night. And it was the aspect of the crowds that was the queerest thing of all. In outward appearance it was a town in which the wealthy classes had practically ceased to exist. Except for a small number of women and foreigners there were no ‘well-dressed’ people at all. Practically everyone wore rough working-class clothes, or blue overalls or some variant of the militia uniform. All this was queer and moving. There was much in it that I did not understand, in some ways I did not even like it, but I recognised it immediately as a state of affairs worth fighting for. Also I believed that things were as they appeared, that this was really a workers’ State and that the entire bourgeoisie had either fled, been killed, or voluntarily come over to the workers’ side; I did not realise that great numbers of well-to-do bourgeois were simply lying low and disguising themselves as proletarians for the time being."
(DIR) Post #342363 by DetectiveHyde@thechad.zone
2018-10-03T07:05:28.153682Z
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@deorsum Fascinating and terrifying. Even in this depiction I can see the seeds of the eventual downfall. That red in the red and black flags seems to have been put there to haunt us, to say "have your day, little man - we'll come soon enough."
(DIR) Post #345019 by djabadu@plz.nobulli.me
2018-10-03T12:40:23.883148Z
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@DetectiveHyde Most places in Spain are diverse. Galicia is extremely different from Andalucia, or from Murcia, Valencia is very different from the Basque Country etc. So an argument juts based on "they're different" doesn't hold up at all.
(DIR) Post #345074 by djabadu@plz.nobulli.me
2018-10-03T12:43:00.543094Z
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@DetectiveHyde @ayy Also, on this point. Madrid did very bad sending the Guardia Civil in to kick heads (which played straight into the "independentista"'s hands. However, the Catalan gov were arrested because they held an illegal election, they broke Spanish law. Outside of Spain I always see a lot of support for Cataluña but I think it's a lot more complicated than it's normally presented. Everyone loves the "good vs bad guy" trope.
(DIR) Post #346793 by DetectiveHyde@thechad.zone
2018-10-03T15:12:21.246411Z
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@djabadu Disclaimer: I fucked up this morning and confused the Basque territory with Catalonia, that one's on me.But I'm sorry, I don't accept that just because a nation is made up of disparate regions and populations that have NOTHING IN COMMON WITH EACH OTHER AT ALL means it's a good idea. Pretty much the opposite, really.It's why I don't even believe in England as a country. How the fuck can Westminster make decisions for the North, or Cornwall?
(DIR) Post #346810 by DetectiveHyde@thechad.zone
2018-10-03T15:13:27.619373Z
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@djabadu @ayy Oh no an illegal election, call the police, that's nearly as dangerous as an illegal trade co-operative
(DIR) Post #346876 by guizzy@social.guizzyordi.info
2018-10-03T15:16:54+00:00
1 likes, 1 repeats
@detectivehyde @ayy @djabadu The concept of an illegal election or referedum on independance is absurd; we're talking about a people's right to self-determine. The people they're trying to emancipate from's opinion on the legality of the matter is completely irrelevant.
(DIR) Post #346993 by DetectiveHyde@thechad.zone
2018-10-03T15:24:12.542835Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@guizzy @ayy @djabadu Absolutely agreed. If you wait for your master to allow you to decide to be free, you'll wait forever.
(DIR) Post #347197 by aven@sealion.club
2018-10-03T15:36:37+00:00
1 likes, 0 repeats
@detectivehyde @guizzy @ayy @djabadu the .cat ccTLD is at stake! :3 http://www.nyan.cat/ (link has loud auto-play music)
(DIR) Post #347667 by djabadu@plz.nobulli.me
2018-10-03T16:10:32.908806Z
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@DetectiveHyde @guizzy @ayy Nobody voted in the election because it wasn't an official one, everyone abstained who was against independence. A complete waste of time :P. You can chew the fat about philosophy all you want but it's not surprising that they broke the law and got arrested for doing it, is it? I don't see the shock?
(DIR) Post #347684 by djabadu@plz.nobulli.me
2018-10-03T16:11:56.549950Z
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@DetectiveHyde @guizzy @ayy I've never said if I'm pro or against them holding an election, just that they broke the law and got punished so I'm not surprised.
(DIR) Post #347708 by djabadu@plz.nobulli.me
2018-10-03T16:13:57.863218Z
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@DetectiveHyde I don't really see your point. You think Spain should separate into different countries because they have a different dance or traditional food or what? :P. They still have a lot in common, whether catalans want to believe it or not. Their propaganda machine is amazing, seriously
(DIR) Post #347914 by DetectiveHyde@thechad.zone
2018-10-03T16:29:31.190953Z
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@djabadu @guizzy @ayy (Moving the other thread into this one too)Yeah, the propaganda machine IS amazing, the fucking statist propaganda machine tbh.Come on man, what the fuck kind of logic is "something is illegal so therefore it's immoral?" Don't come back and say that wasn't what you were implying, you're sitting here making an impassioned case against the Catalan independence movement and your chief arguments seem to be:1: If they wanted an independence referendum, they should have had an Official™ oneWhich they tried, and got denied, so are they just supposed to sit on their hands forever because daddy said they couldn't have one? Ridiculous.2: Nobody who was against it voted because they didn't support independence/it wasn't officialThe sweet familiar sound, I've spent the last two fucking years having Remainers spew this same line at me. "Most of us didn't vote in it because why would we if we didn't support change?" It's the most fallacious argument, and it being "unofficial so nobody voted" is fucking ridiculous. I don't know about you but if my town/region/country had an "unofficial" referendum to see if we should become communist, I'd be to those fucking poll booths like a SHOT to vote "no" so that they couldn't claim they had a "mandate for it" later.3: Spain should stay together because we have so much in commonSeems like an issue for the subjects of Spain to decide, which... some of them did.
(DIR) Post #348218 by djabadu@plz.nobulli.me
2018-10-03T16:54:07.918514Z
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@DetectiveHyde @guizzy @ayy I said they're in prison/will be because they broke Spanish law. I didn't say that's correct but the way they went about doing the referendum was like a little child putting their fingers in their ears and saying "mimimimi" when people made any counter point.I have many reasons why the Catalan independence movement is cancerous, so far I've only countered the points you've put forward because you said that its like Tibet (lool)Anyway, I think it's just people liking the underdog without remotely understanding anything about Spanish politics.
(DIR) Post #348229 by DetectiveHyde@thechad.zone
2018-10-03T16:55:18.153928Z
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@djabadu @guizzy @ayy And I don't think you're making a coherent argument as to why it isn't like Tibet (it fundamentally is, Tibet is just a far more extreme example, which is why I used it) OR what they were supposed to do instead of holding an ~illegal referendum@
(DIR) Post #348262 by djabadu@plz.nobulli.me
2018-10-03T16:58:32.619261Z
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@DetectiveHyde @guizzy @ayy ok bud, well anyway, enough about catalan politics for me. Just been talking Spanish polticis all day and am jaded, gonna have a beer
(DIR) Post #348297 by DetectiveHyde@thechad.zone
2018-10-03T17:01:03.414015Z
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@djabadu @guizzy @ayy Sounds good, wish I could too but (((carbs)))
(DIR) Post #357574 by ayy@pl.smuglo.li
2018-10-04T01:38:24.361701Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@DetectiveHyde @guizzy @djabadu Totally agree. Telling people "no referendums allowed" is almost as bad as "no discussing this issue allowed". It's tyrannical.And if you play along with tyrannical rules like that you "then the emperor has already won".
(DIR) Post #414469 by alfred@t.cascadians.net
2018-10-07T15:08:25.090152Z
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@DetectiveHyde @dtluna interested in cascadia? hmu also don't let DTLuna trick you into thinking it's capitalist
(DIR) Post #414470 by DetectiveHyde@thechad.zone
2018-10-07T15:13:50.225746Z
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@alfred I'm pretty sure he has me blocked anyway.So what's the deal here? Are you guys going for a Catalonia type thing?
(DIR) Post #414493 by alfred@t.cascadians.net
2018-10-07T15:13:28.568839Z
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@DetectiveHyde basically yes we draw the borders based on the geography (cascadia is like a bunch of biomes lumped together) we think that the US government is corrupt and evil, that US corporations are destroying the earth, that if we threw out the old system and made a new one from scratch, we could reduce the amount of damage being done
(DIR) Post #414505 by DetectiveHyde@thechad.zone
2018-10-07T15:18:22.657168Z
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@alfred Sounds sensible to me. But what exactly do you want to replace it with?The last few weeks have taught me that people mean many many different things when they use the word "anarchism"
(DIR) Post #414547 by alfred@t.cascadians.net
2018-10-07T15:18:00.554109Z
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@DetectiveHyde the most popular proposal is to essentially have a city-state system, but a key idea is that cascadia wouldn't be a nation-state, eg you would not have to file to be a "citizen of cascadia" , there wouldn't be cascadian border police or a big wall built. each city can probably run itself democratically but if it fucks up, the other cities can say "whoa buddy! you're fucking up"
(DIR) Post #414548 by jeff@social.i2p.rocks
2018-10-07T15:23:04.217818Z
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@alfred sounds like that would create a power vacuum that external entities would rush to fill. I.E. russia china saudis Israel etc
(DIR) Post #414565 by alfred@t.cascadians.net
2018-10-07T15:14:40.014343Z
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@DetectiveHyde the PNW has great soil, clean air, clean water, and tons of pristine nature. we're also the most leftwing part of the north american continent we kind of imagine something like EZLN in Mexico, or Rojava (kurdistan) in Syria
(DIR) Post #414566 by alfred@t.cascadians.net
2018-10-07T15:15:33.826378Z
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@DetectiveHyde or kind of like the confederate states of america, except being focused on being bros instead of like, defending slavery, lol
(DIR) Post #414567 by DetectiveHyde@thechad.zone
2018-10-07T15:24:38.992858Z
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@alfred But what's the nitty gritty of it? How would Cascadia handle property? Would there be a distinction between "personal property" (I. E. Possessions) and "private property"? Is there a clear consensus on the issue between Cascadians? For example, in anarchist Barcelona, all cars were commandeered into communal property. Yes, we're talking about a time when cars were far less commonplace, but it's interesting as an example of where the border lies when deciding what is and isn't communal.How would work be decided? What about people who don't want to be part of a syndicate or a collective?What I'm trying to do here is to feel out how much of this proposal is anarchist and how much is communist, basically.
(DIR) Post #414701 by alfred@t.cascadians.net
2018-10-07T15:20:23.043619Z
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@DetectiveHyde this is in stark contrast to a system like Leninism or Maoism where there's a "dear leader" who issues orders from the top down. it's also contrasted against the democratic republican system, where people are elected to positions of power to make decisions idk if you are familiar with Libya but it had an essentially leaderless system where simple majority decision could decide major policy
(DIR) Post #414702 by DetectiveHyde@thechad.zone
2018-10-07T15:39:07.092599Z
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@alfred I'm not familiar with Libya in this context no, but it sounds like direct democracy, basically.I'm getting the impression that this is basically a neo-Hellenic kind of idea
(DIR) Post #414727 by shit@pl.smuglo.li
2018-10-07T15:41:10.511846Z
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@DetectiveHyde @alfred in the pacific northwest nobody agrees. thers commie faggots types and redneck types. complete opposites in one area
(DIR) Post #414728 by DetectiveHyde@thechad.zone
2018-10-07T15:42:13.197226Z
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@shit @alfred Which is kind of what I'm getting at in a roundabout way: that a pluralist anarchism devoid of adjectives would give room for people to play factorio IRL in their syndicate or whatever but also room for people to live way out in the woods fucking their sister and shooting stuff
(DIR) Post #414738 by DetectiveHyde@thechad.zone
2018-10-07T15:42:43.543706Z
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@shit @alfred God, living in the woods and fucking my sister sounds amazing tbh
(DIR) Post #414772 by alfred@t.cascadians.net
2018-10-07T15:42:20.758172Z
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@DetectiveHyde @shit this is basically where the movement at-large is at.
(DIR) Post #414787 by DetectiveHyde@thechad.zone
2018-10-07T15:47:18.041735Z
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@alfred @shit The logistics of it fascinate me because on one hand surely the idea is to allow people to basically be free, but on the other hand as you've rightly got at with the other post, you kinda need to be able to do something if MisesCorp™ decides to open a Free And Open™ dark satanic mill that consumes acres and acres and shits out pollution everywhere, or whatever.This is kind of why I'd *like* to consider myself an anarchist but can never see a path to it
(DIR) Post #414823 by alfred@t.cascadians.net
2018-10-07T15:45:11.897626Z
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@DetectiveHyde @shit it's not like, following a revolution, everyone dies or forgets about their old jobs or becomes a completely new person. let's say, for the sake of argument, 5% of the PNW is really into communism (and that's a stretch). you can't make the USSR happen again if 95% of society doesn't want it. this is also our answer as to how we'll keep neo-nazis / KKK from rising to power. we are a pretty white part of the US, but the last 2 years have shown me that the majority is anti-racist. slavery isn't just anti-anarchist and anti-socialist, it's anti-democracy, anti-liberal, and generally considered to be anti-human. by the majority of the population
(DIR) Post #414840 by DetectiveHyde@thechad.zone
2018-10-07T15:52:27.121427Z
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@alfred @shit Yeah that's another thing that concerns me, that even in the absence of coercion, people will be SPOOKED enough to follow their old patterns even if they don't want to.Guess that's inevitable though, someone recently freed has to learn to be free and all.I'm still wary of allowing the majority to make decisions for everyone, though. Very wary. Plato was right on that, I think. (Ironic that he then proposed totalitarianism as a solution, but I don't think he was completely serious)
(DIR) Post #414991 by alfred@t.cascadians.net
2018-10-07T15:47:06.452846Z
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@DetectiveHyde @shit what do you think is the best way to manage power? england is like 600 miles long right? when should you be allowed to decide how someone 400 miles away lives his house?
(DIR) Post #414992 by DetectiveHyde@thechad.zone
2018-10-07T16:06:25.352731Z
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@alfred @shit Yeah that's a great question, the answer is that I really have no idea. It doesn't take a genius to see that having a central power base in London making decisions for the entire country just flat out isn't working. That's why the Scottish and Welsh independence movements are so strong, and that's why the Brexit referendum was so divided between urban and rural centres - and between the north and south of england - too. There's a LOT of resentment in this country, in the north in particular, about the fact that the policy that dictates our lives is decided by affluent Londoners.(As worthy as being "anti-racist" seems, there is undoubted ethnic and cultural tension surrounding immigration, especially Islamic immigration. It's fine for an MP who lives in a gated community in Notting Hill to decide that we should "all just get along", but spend one day in one of the immigrant areas of Birmingham or Bradford and the problems are plain to see. Culture, as you seem to be saying, does definitely develop in a way independently of statism - and the regions of our island HAVE their own culture, which they see as being under fire. These concerns won't just go away because we're told they have to.)The way I tackle this one, personally, is with a thought experiment. Would I be happy if Britain broke up into its component nations? No, but only because I feel it would put England even more under the yoke of London. What about if, on top of that, England broke up into smaller components - say the historic areas of Northumberland, Mercia, Anglia etc, with London as its own one? That would make me very happy indeed, becuase then my own - Anglia -would be far more fit to self-govern. But Anglia includes radically different cultural spheres, and where I am for example - in a very rural and sparse area - is very different from say, Cambridge, which is very urbanite. So at that point, would I be happy if we were governed seperately from Cambridge? Absolutely.Let's go on from there. What if my town was governed completely independently from other places in the region? That would probably be wise, because I'm sure the people in the surrounding smaller villages, hamlets and farmsteads would feel that our governance (and it would obviously be our governance, as a larger concentration of people) would be inappropriate for them.When we get smaller than that? I still don't like the idea of other people being able to make decisions about what I do with my home, but the reality is that if that logic is extended further, then my *neighbour* can turn his house into a tar and soot factory and I can't say a damn thing about it.In short, the part at which my hesitation begins is the part at which I would no longer stand to *gain power from further decentrilisation.* The abolition of Westminister as a government, or of Cambridge as a regional goernance centre, would improve my lot, but the point at which I'm in the meaningful ruling majority - where it's just my town and a bunch of surrounding countryside - is the point which I naturally feel "works best", and I only advocate further decentrilisation after that based on sympathy for the farmers outside. At the point where the interests of my immediate environment, its peace and tranquility, are not served by reducing governance further, that's where I stop.And that, essentially, means that my take on this is fundamentally egoist.This is why I don't go around with a black flag emoji in my name and "anarchist" in my profile. I love personal freedom, I don't like capitalism very much, I HATE being told what to do (which means I don't like communism very much either, thank you) and I love the idea of people simply working together in harmony, but at the end of the day, like all people, I think I know best, I am reluctant to relinquish control, and I simply want my own way.Which is why on a philosophical level, I just keep coming back to Stirner and/or (later, post-fascist) Evola, and on a pragmatic level I keep coming back to the idea that this would all be so much easier if there were a LOT less population density and vast tracts of wilderness could separate our tribes and communes.
(DIR) Post #414999 by shit@pl.smuglo.li
2018-10-07T15:52:16.443782Z
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@alfred @DetectiveHyde well they did it their communist revolution first time with almost no support from society
(DIR) Post #415010 by alfred@t.cascadians.net
2018-10-07T16:00:12.778171Z
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@DetectiveHyde @shit and you could be certain this MisesCorp demon factory would hire their own military group to defend their enterprise, knowing fully well that there's no army or FBI to shut them down
(DIR) Post #415023 by DetectiveHyde@thechad.zone
2018-10-07T16:08:51.992990Z
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@alfred @shit That's what I like to refer to as "the fist of the north star problem" or "the caesar's legion problem", namely I might be quite happy to make my little primitivist/ecologist colony where we live like Varg Vikernes discovering Rivendell, and to coexist peacefully with my neighbours (who are preferably quite far away), but that doesn't mean an army of 100,000 assholes isn't going to come over the hill and rape/murder us
(DIR) Post #415050 by alfred@t.cascadians.net
2018-10-07T16:05:45.771260Z
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@DetectiveHyde @shit something ironic given that i am involved with the anti-ICE movement (against immigration police) is that, in the big picture I think exile is a much better punishment than jail time or torture, or murderthere are a lot of criticisms of the US justice system in the "cascadia movement" but tbh the hardest thing about American law is that it's so complex and difficult to change. At our trials, 12 random people drawn from society can actually decide "this guy did the crime, but he doesn't deserve to be punished" (this is called jury nullification) but almost no one knows about it. I would certainly hope there is no "private prison" system with "private police" etc , some system of professional kidnappers and revenge-seekers, most Americans don't really want this either
(DIR) Post #415498 by alfred@t.cascadians.net
2018-10-07T16:38:31.434230Z
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@DetectiveHyde @shit i tend more towards socialism than the black flag anarchy. Black flag anarchy / extreme anarchism can spark revolutions but it doesn't provide any satisfying answers to what happens next basically you could divide England into 48 counties before right?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postal_counties_of_the_United_Kingdom
(DIR) Post #415499 by DetectiveHyde@thechad.zone
2018-10-07T16:47:52.129889Z
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@alfred @shit Yeah I basically feel no draw from socialism, I don't really see why a person would fight so hard to be free from current society only to elect to be a cog in another machine.I appreciate this is just my own personality. That's why I would prefer to just live and let live.
(DIR) Post #415590 by alfred@t.cascadians.net
2018-10-07T16:48:17.402072Z
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@DetectiveHyde @shit oh I draw a hard line between workers democratically owning the company & neighbors democratically controlling their neighborhood, FROM the communism of Lenin and Maoi am socialist in part because I think neoliberalism is a sham, the stock market is a sham, banknotes (fiat currency) are a scam , Gaddaffi was a socialist who also wanted a gold standard and he was murdered for it.
(DIR) Post #415591 by DetectiveHyde@thechad.zone
2018-10-07T16:56:12.016043Z
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@alfred @shit How different modern political thought would have been if Marx had simply died young or not been born at all.
(DIR) Post #415614 by debbie@pleroma.apelsin.space
2018-10-07T16:56:44.936441Z
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@DetectiveHyde @alfred @shit we could only wish
(DIR) Post #415615 by DetectiveHyde@thechad.zone
2018-10-07T16:58:33.445387Z
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@debbie @alfred @shit I'm with you here but probably not for the same reason. It would have been nice if thinkers like Bakunin got to take more of a front seat without Marx's backdoor authoritarianism fucking everything up.
(DIR) Post #416751 by alfred@t.cascadians.net
2018-10-07T16:58:52.411078Z
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@DetectiveHyde @debbie @shit here, most libertarians will talk about how they hate "big capitalism" even if they support "little capitalism", and to diehard ansocs, this is not different from christians differentiation between micro-evolution and macro-evolution, idk, i don't think money or business or jobs are all bad.
(DIR) Post #416752 by debbie@pleroma.apelsin.space
2018-10-07T17:03:33.922539Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@alfred @DetectiveHyde @shit I have no problem with big companies if they stay away from teaming up with the states.
(DIR) Post #416753 by alfred@t.cascadians.net
2018-10-07T17:31:53.637230Z
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@debbie @DetectiveHyde @shit that is how the really big companies survive though.
(DIR) Post #416754 by alfred@t.cascadians.net
2018-10-07T17:32:23.728880Z
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@debbie @DetectiveHyde @shit i think that's the textbook definition of fascism -- "state capitalism"
(DIR) Post #416755 by DetectiveHyde@thechad.zone
2018-10-07T18:29:25.196618Z
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@alfred @debbie @shit From what I remember actually, the textbook definition of fascism is "All endeavours, both public and private, must ultimately serve the state"(Which ironically, is a prerequisite for Stalin-style communism)
(DIR) Post #416780 by DetectiveHyde@thechad.zone
2018-10-07T18:30:31.616214Z
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@alfred @debbie @shit But nah yeah fuck crony capitalism even harder than just about everything else tbh, it pisses me off too