Post 3347344 by stjohn@jank.town
(DIR) More posts by stjohn@jank.town
(DIR) Post #3292624 by kurtm@bsd.network
2019-01-23T15:22:53Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
I feel the complexity in the web now may have been a strategy. Beyond allowing folks like Google being able to use HTML5 as an OS platform for applications, the complexity makes it hard for smaller groups to be able to keep up or start new efforts.It didn't seem weird back when Google forked WebKit from Apple. Apple isn't known for being super cooperative and Google Chrome didn't have such overwhelming dominance.Now user hostile changes are happening and almost everyone has little choice.
(DIR) Post #3292625 by kurtm@bsd.network
2019-01-23T15:30:19Z
2 likes, 5 repeats
Yes, Firefox exists. I use Firefox. They try and portray themselves as the scrappy underdog, but really, they are a fallen empire. They were dominant. Now they're not. Yes, Google has done shady things that hurt Firefox, but Firefox has made a number of user hostile moves. Feedback is often ignored because the developers know better. They've started secretly experimenting on their users or sneaking in ads. They cry foul play but their actions aren't the actions of a freedom fighter.
(DIR) Post #3293170 by bob@soc.freedombone.net
2019-01-23T15:45:18.804340Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@kurtm There's room for a new generation to reinvent what the web is. At this point there are so many things wrong with much of the web that it's a case of "what have we got on the spacecraft that's good?".Firefox and Chromium seem like the only viable browsers and they both have problems.
(DIR) Post #3293366 by slightlyflightyone@vulpine.club
2019-01-23T16:01:11Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@kurtm Honestly, if Mozilla wasn’t local, it would be hard to pick a horse in the race.
(DIR) Post #3293603 by bob@soc.freedombone.net
2019-01-23T16:12:39.032428Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@dgold @kurtm Yes. I looked at Brave and shuddered.So the web turning into spyware and adware leaves an opportunity to reinvent it. Firefox was once somewhat innovative in that it was faster than the alternative and had the revolutionary feature of allowing you to block popups, which had become a scourge.I thin the browser could be reinvented based on p2p protocols. Forget supporting the legacy web and make something new. Beaker is really tinkering with the legacy web, but is maybe on the right track.Don't base any new browser on the old stuff. The surveillance capitalists will always fuck it up, and you'll be mitigating their badness endlessly.
(DIR) Post #3296465 by alcinnz@floss.social
2019-01-23T18:01:31Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@bob @kurtm @dgold If you're principled about it, I think there's plenty of good stuff to keep from today's web.
(DIR) Post #3308798 by mowdoo@social.stupid.industries
2019-01-23T22:00:04Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kurtm Use Lynx: no cookies, no javascript, no ads
(DIR) Post #3308799 by gemlog@mastodonten.de
2019-01-24T01:03:36Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@mowdoo @kurtm I got finally fed up with ff after over a decade. I tried palemoon, but thing kept falling off. I've been using vivaldi, but I still miss some old extension. A friend emailed me waterfox this a.m. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterfox#Overview I like the list of things they removed like drm support and tracking.
(DIR) Post #3346839 by stjohn@jank.town
2019-01-23T15:38:26.757692Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kurtm Oh Firefox has made a *ton* of user-hostile moves. It kills me because I've always been such a fanboy, but I wouldn't use it now. I don't know whether that's the reason they've consistently lost so much of the market, but it may be part of it. There are definitely other reasons too -- Google locks people into Chrome by making their products buggy in Firefox, and Mozilla took soooo long to improve the speed and UI of Firefox that everyone just preferred Chrome.
(DIR) Post #3346840 by freakazoid@retro.social
2019-01-24T23:40:31Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@stjohn @kurtm What do you use instead of FF? There don't seem to be any alternatives out there.
(DIR) Post #3346841 by stjohn@jank.town
2019-01-25T03:41:56.304070Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@freakazoid @kurtm It's a tough call, and your mileage will vary depending on your needs. I tried pretty much everything I could and you're right, there really are no alternatives that can act as a drop-in replacement for FF. I wound up settling on Surf (from suckless.org), which is a minimalist Webkit-based browser, but you do have to be a bit techy to use it. I wouldn't say it's a good fit for people looking for a friendly UI and lots of features, but it's stable and it works. I also have to fall back to FF when Surf doesn't cut the mustard (like DRM movie streaming), but it's fine for 99% of websites.I've started to realize I don't even *like* being on the Web any more -- it's such a swamp, all ads and bloated, useless Javascript applications. Most of the time it's just more fun to pick up a book and not bother with the Web. I've pretty much resigned myself to being that old fogey who shakes his fist at clouds, so you can take this with a grain of salt, but my philosophy has always been that if I'm not enjoying something I should just leave and let other people do what they will.Let me know how you go -- I'd be curious to hear what works well for you. We're all in this together and I'd love to see more real alternative browsers out there.
(DIR) Post #3346842 by alcinnz@floss.social
2019-01-25T03:49:09Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@stjohn @kurtm @freakazoid Hello, independant browser developer here. If you wanted to talk to one.
(DIR) Post #3347344 by stjohn@jank.town
2019-01-25T04:12:25.289365Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@alcinnz @freakazoid @kurtm Oooh, yes indeed! I can't believe I didn't realize that's what you did. I don't know if we've ever said hi properly, but hello! I'm St John, writer and tinkerer. I'd love to hear more about what you're working on. What's your independent browser? And what sort of challenges are you trying to solve? It seems like the modern Web is so complicated (DRM, U2F, media plugns, getting JS to run decently fast) that I thought it was almost impossible to create an independent browser these days. I'm really glad to hear there are people out there trying to tackle that problem.
(DIR) Post #3347422 by alcinnz@floss.social
2019-01-25T04:17:45Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@stjohn @kurtm @freakazoid Sure! I've got two:In "Odysseus" I'm experimenting with how the browser can better help people find websites without relying on any central services. It reuses Apple's (and others') WebKit codebase to handle all the complexity.And "Memex" tackles that complexity head on for the sake of accessibility and security. It does break some significant compatibility though, and I'm not planning on adding any navigation aids.
(DIR) Post #3347524 by amolith@masto.nixnet.xyz
2019-01-25T04:22:58Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@alcinnz The first feature for Odysseus is really intriguing; could you elaborate on what you mean by "find websites without relying on any central services"?@stjohn @kurtm @freakazoid
(DIR) Post #3347669 by alcinnz@floss.social
2019-01-25T04:29:53Z
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@amolith @stjohn @kurtm @freakazoid Sure, I'll describe the specific things I'm doing along that line.Right now I'm working on getting webfeeds to work in Odysseus like they used to in other browsers. But with a nicer integration point for feedreaders that allows them to specialize.Then I'll reinterpret the links you've seen but haven't visited as being personalized recommendations. So you don't have to go to YouTube, etc for that.
(DIR) Post #3348072 by alcinnz@floss.social
2019-01-25T04:39:31Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@amolith @stjohn @kurtm @freakazoid Beyond that I need to excell at bookmarks so it doesn't become easier to use Google instead. And it'd be helpful for people to be able to share subsets of their bookmarks amongst themselves, perhaps aggregating them into larger catalogues for (more independant) search engines.And what I'm super keen on is to allow people to search multiple registered sites simultaneously! So those can specialize more.
(DIR) Post #3348331 by stjohn@jank.town
2019-01-25T04:36:54.625468Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@alcinnz @freakazoid @kurtm Oh this is fascinating. Odysseus looks cool (and I'd like to give it a spin tomorrow), but Memex looks a really interesting new take on what a Web browser can do. I thought I'd done my homework on browsers, but I haven't run into these before. What sort of response are you getting from users?One of the main reasons I still have Firefox installed is so I can watch movies and so I can join Google Hangouts for work. Are those the sorts of things people ask for a lot? Or are they outside the scope of what you're doing?
(DIR) Post #3348332 by alcinnz@floss.social
2019-01-25T04:46:03Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@stjohn @kurtm @freakazoid For whatever reason, not so much. Maybe people realize they need to ask WebKit's GTK port for it instead.Mostly for Odysseus I got requests for UI polish, though fairly quickly I was told to stop spending my time on that and focus on better navigation aids. Which is what I was keen to focus on anyways!And Memex, I really haven't gotten to that stage yet. I need it to actually draw interactive webpages first!
(DIR) Post #3348551 by stjohn@jank.town
2019-01-25T04:43:43.188081Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@alcinnz @freakazoid @kurtm @amolith Thanks for the detail. It's really interesting that you've identified a blind spot in what current browsers do -- I've never thought about the searchability or accessibility of links and bookmarks inside the browser. I'd like to give it a spin and see how it feels.
(DIR) Post #3348552 by alcinnz@floss.social
2019-01-25T04:53:00Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@stjohn @freakazoid @kurtm @amolith Just be aware I haven't implemented that stuff yet, though it shouldn't be too long on the webfeeds and personalized suggestions. Though I have some non-personalized recommendations in there already, and topsites.
(DIR) Post #3348630 by alcinnz@floss.social
2019-01-25T04:57:48Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@stjohn @freakazoid @kurtm @amolith If you're on elementary OS you can install it from the AppCenter. I've also got a FlatPak, though I'm not sure how well I'm keeping that up to date and I (and GNOME Web) are not happy with the version of libssl that ships.And in a few weeks I'm planning on packaging it for Debian and Arch.Anyways tell me what you think!
(DIR) Post #3348692 by freakazoid@retro.social
2019-01-25T04:59:35Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@alcinnz @amolith @kurtm @stjohn I use Debian and Arch, so that sounds awesome.