Post 3326154 by sir@cmpwn.com
(DIR) More posts by sir@cmpwn.com
(DIR) Post #3326154 by sir@cmpwn.com
2019-01-24T14:35:47Z
0 likes, 2 repeats
The answer to "is sr.ht and/or mailing-list-driven development harder for drive-by contributors than GitHub?"https://sr.ht/7uuK.txt
(DIR) Post #3326252 by val@oc.todon.fr
2019-01-24T14:38:01Z
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@sir GitHub added a UI to edit files on the web, which automatically creates a fork and opens the pull-request form.It's not so great for editing code, but it's perfect for small changes.
(DIR) Post #3326283 by sir@cmpwn.com
2019-01-24T14:39:47Z
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@val those changes are almost always worthless, though. They generally don't build, have style errors, etc. I've repeatedly asked GitHub to give me a knob to disable this with
(DIR) Post #3326486 by liw@social.nasqueron.org
2019-01-24T14:44:05Z
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@sir Setting up git sendmail requires being able send mail via the sendmail binary, or via an SMTP port (25, 465, 587), which is not something a lot of people have these days. Compared to that, the hoops GitHub makes one jump through are much simpler.Much as I hate it.
(DIR) Post #3326515 by sir@cmpwn.com
2019-01-24T14:44:55Z
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@liw wait, who doesn't have SMTP access?
(DIR) Post #3326584 by liw@social.nasqueron.org
2019-01-24T14:47:32Z
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@sir A lot of people. Most people use webmail of some sort, not SMTP and IMAP clients, for example.
(DIR) Post #3326625 by sir@cmpwn.com
2019-01-24T14:47:47Z
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@liw their email provider almost certainly provides SMTP access.
(DIR) Post #3326838 by liw@social.nasqueron.org
2019-01-24T14:57:22Z
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@sir Arranging for that is much more work than using GitHub, though. Been there, done that. Several times. Not going to debate this. Your lived experience is clearly far different from mine.
(DIR) Post #3334535 by jhulten@mastodon.technology
2019-01-24T19:21:29Z
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@sir @liw Which requires understanding of where to find the information and how to authenticate.
(DIR) Post #3334622 by sir@cmpwn.com
2019-01-24T19:24:16Z
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@jhulten @liw if they can't google their email provder's SMTP help page then they're in for a bad time with the rest of git
(DIR) Post #3335023 by liw@social.nasqueron.org
2019-01-24T19:35:01Z
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@sir @jhulten I think you're being more than a little arrogant and disingenuous with this requirement that to use git one must have also have, and know how to use, an SMTP provider.Or in claiming that only "engineer" should use git.
(DIR) Post #3335034 by sir@cmpwn.com
2019-01-24T19:36:11Z
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@liw @jhulten here's what I'm getting at: if you intend to write code, you should be comfortable learning new technology things and looking up docs. If you are, then figuring out SMTP is not hard. You just have to find a few magic strings and plug them into the right places, and tutorials telling you Googleable names of those magic strings and exactly where to put them exist.
(DIR) Post #3335076 by sir@cmpwn.com
2019-01-24T19:37:00Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@liw @jhulten and I don't believe in making coding more accessible to people who aren't willing to read docs or solve problems they aren't familiar with. Those are essential, indespensible, non-negotiable skills in the toolbox of a developer.
(DIR) Post #3335145 by jhulten@mastodon.technology
2019-01-24T19:40:25Z
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@sir @liw I don't believe in forcing people into yak shaving exercises as a form of gatekeeping.
(DIR) Post #3335161 by sir@cmpwn.com
2019-01-24T19:40:45Z
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@jhulten @liw if anyone's being disingenous here this is it
(DIR) Post #3335205 by liw@social.nasqueron.org
2019-01-24T19:42:21Z
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@sir @jhulten Good luck on your chosen path.
(DIR) Post #3336022 by jim@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2019-01-24T20:16:21Z
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@sir @liw I'm currently postmastering for a large organisation, and I spend as long as possible trying to get developers to STOP SENDING EMAIL from their systems. An email is rarely the right answer when compared to an actual API call (even if that's only an HTTPS POST).Even internally, email is NOT RELIABLE due to the number of defences we have to put inline due to constant egregious misuse by criminal groups (e.g. spam, malware, compromised accounts, etc etc.).
(DIR) Post #3336089 by sir@cmpwn.com
2019-01-24T20:19:10Z
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@jim @liw as someone who also maintains large email systems...Deal with it. It's not nearly as bad as you're making it out to be.
(DIR) Post #3340168 by jim@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2019-01-24T22:41:03Z
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@sir @liw Simply processing SMTP transactions isn't difficult. But when you look at the problem from a higher level of "who/what is communicating and who/what is supposed to be receiving" then if it isn't a human talking to a human (and even then) email is probably not the right system in the first place.
(DIR) Post #3340306 by sir@cmpwn.com
2019-01-24T22:45:38Z
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@jim @liw to be fair I think being a mail server admin is the worst part about email. But I intend to eventually offer hosted mail and will deal with it for people.
(DIR) Post #3340376 by jim@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2019-01-24T22:47:51Z
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@sir @liw Well then good luck to you, I wouldn't wish deliverability concerns on to anyone! There's a number of good mail-admin self-help lists, one of the lowest-volume vs highest signal is [Mailop], which I recommend