Post 2547401 by Michcioperz@m.atm.pl
(DIR) More posts by Michcioperz@m.atm.pl
(DIR) Post #2533075 by kemonine@social.holdmybeer.solutions
2019-01-02T05:14:34.787821Z
1 likes, 2 repeats
NOT self-hosting your stuff is OK and APPROPRIATEput your attention and energy where you feel they are best utilizedself-hosting is but one option of manyi may run my own mini-cloud but...i pay OTHERS to manage some of my services because my attention and energy is best served on other endeavorsself-hosting is NOT a silver bulletfools will say it's the best optioni promise, it's not the best option unless your decision tree takes you to that conclusionmy decision tree has many variables, not all options are created equal and self-hosting doesn't always win for medon't let the "always self host" people ruin your day
(DIR) Post #2536950 by igeljaeger@the.hedgehoghunter.club
2019-01-02T08:40:30.052318Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@kemonine I self host a lot of my stuff because it's simply fun tbh. Tho I'm not confident enough to host my own email server yet cuz that's too crucial and I like blaming others for the important things in life :lul:
(DIR) Post #2536967 by orekix@pl.smuglo.li
2019-01-02T08:41:48.156884Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@igeljaeger @kemonine I self host my email, it's not too bad but have to do a lot of reading first time, try iRedMail I guess
(DIR) Post #2537037 by igeljaeger@the.hedgehoghunter.club
2019-01-02T08:45:24.074836Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@orekix @kemonine mmmh I'd first have to upgrade my hardware most likely. This shit ain't flying on a RPi
(DIR) Post #2537044 by orekix@pl.smuglo.li
2019-01-02T08:45:50.790394Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@igeljaeger @kemonine RPi cluster :smug9:
(DIR) Post #2537114 by snacks@netzsphaere.xyz
2019-01-02T08:49:51.250913Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@igeljaeger @orekix @kemonine won't work with dyndns @lucy tried
(DIR) Post #2537145 by igeljaeger@the.hedgehoghunter.club
2019-01-02T08:50:55.794295Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@snacks @orekix @kemonine @lucy oh, I see...
(DIR) Post #2546942 by kemonine@social.holdmybeer.solutions
2019-01-02T15:35:48.334107Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@igeljaeger I'd recommend avoiding e-mail 😉 After about 10 years of hosting my own... I finally gave up and pay for hosted email on Microsoft's cloud platform as well as protonmail
(DIR) Post #2546979 by codewiz@mstdn.io
2019-01-02T09:40:11Z
2 likes, 1 repeats
@orekix @kemonine @igeljaeger I've been running email servers for myself and various organizations for the past 15 years, and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone.A mailserver with IMAP, spam filtering and webmail isn't too hard to setup, but year after year maintenance can become tedious. It's definitely not worth it unless you're doing it at scale.If you need a single mailbox, consider that one hour of your skilled labor could easily pay a ProtonMail Plus account for one year.
(DIR) Post #2546982 by halfbyte@kosmos.social
2019-01-02T09:05:18Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@kemonine I think your opinion isn't as controversial as you think, at least considering a wider audience than just people who have experience in hosting.One thing I think we should spend more time thinking about is how to organize hosting itself in a more decentralized way, e.g. small, more or less non profit (could/should be coops for example?) companies that host stuff for local communities.
(DIR) Post #2546992 by irina@wandering.shop
2019-01-02T10:01:47Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@kemonine We self-hosted for more than 20 years and then decided it was ENOUGH. Took to much energy that we now gladly let other people expend so we can do our other things.
(DIR) Post #2546994 by aeonofdiscord@icosahedron.website
2019-01-02T09:47:55Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@kemonine imo it's people with a massive house and a vegetable garden yelling JUST GROW YOUR OWN FOOD at people without the time, money or inclinationlike it's nice if you can do that but not everyone can do that
(DIR) Post #2547003 by jasper@mastodon.nl
2019-01-02T14:40:41Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@kemonine people don't need to self-host a mastodon instance.It is a balance between putting too much trust in a few really big instances and having too many people putting in effort.That goes for a lot of other things too? Although i wouldn't just go "'and now do a webshop". Gotta recognize that different things have different risks attached.
(DIR) Post #2547210 by p@freespeechextremist.com
2019-01-02T15:45:03.545377Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@kemonine I agree that it's not a silver bullet, but it's not just payment, it's payment and trust. I don't trust Google with anything at all, I don't trust Twitter with much, so I don't give it much.If it takes much effort to host something yourself, you might be doing it wrong. I don't think it's foolish to say it's the best option, because it usually is the best option if you know how to do it.
(DIR) Post #2547345 by Wolf480pl@niu.moe
2019-01-02T15:50:28Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@codewiz @orekix @kemonine @igeljaeger I guess using mutt over ssh instead of IMAP would simplify quite a bit, though obviously not everyone is comfortable with that.Wish I had time to learn mutt...
(DIR) Post #2547361 by p@freespeechextremist.com
2019-01-02T15:51:16.291580Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@igeljaeger Email's not that hard. Most mail servers are a little crusty because it's not a very sexy thing to work on, but I was worried about running a mail server for a long time before I got nearly forced into it, and it took like a couple of hours to go from zero knowledge to working. I kept my gmail around, forwarding to my new mailserver.
(DIR) Post #2547391 by igeljaeger@the.hedgehoghunter.club
2019-01-02T15:52:06.639222Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@kemonine 10 years? Sasuga senpai!
(DIR) Post #2547401 by Michcioperz@m.atm.pl
2019-01-02T15:47:24.085599Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@kemonine @nihl I have come to this problem where I wonder how to self-host backups of my self-hosted stuffat which point I understood it's okay to rely on others sometimes even when self-hosting
(DIR) Post #2547406 by nihl@p.umbriel.fr
2019-01-02T15:48:46.939912Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@kemonine I've been managing a homelab for 3 years, party to self-host a lot of services I use. It takes time and money, both in large quantities, not everyone can/wants to do that and I understand why.
(DIR) Post #2547436 by igeljaeger@the.hedgehoghunter.club
2019-01-02T15:53:24.362778Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@p well at least I dont use gmail anymore lol. Moved to protonmail (swiss, claims to be about privacy) and tutanota (german, claims to be about privacy) quite some time ago
(DIR) Post #2547449 by kemonine@social.holdmybeer.solutions
2019-01-02T15:53:55.233560Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@igeljaeger Yep...What does Sauga senpai mean? I'm quite bad with languages and I have a feeling google translate isn't doing any favors 😉
(DIR) Post #2547459 by nihl@p.umbriel.fr
2019-01-02T15:51:05.807114Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Michcioperz @kemonine I have to rent dedicated servers for remote backups. The only other "self-hosted" choice is running my own backup servers in a colo and that's way out of my budget.
(DIR) Post #2547484 by kemonine@social.holdmybeer.solutions
2019-01-02T15:54:59.237470Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@nihl @Michcioperz May I inquire what you are using for backups?
(DIR) Post #2547501 by p@freespeechextremist.com
2019-01-02T15:55:52.854546Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@igeljaeger Protonmail is pretty respectable.It's a weird time, EU is terrible about free speech nowadays but the US is terrible about privacy.
(DIR) Post #2547507 by codewiz@mstdn.io
2019-01-02T15:56:02Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Wolf480pl @orekix @kemonine @igeljaeger Don't you also want mobile access and a web interface to access your email from any device?
(DIR) Post #2547530 by kemonine@social.holdmybeer.solutions
2019-01-02T15:56:57.761945Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@codewiz @igeljaeger @orekix @Wolf480pl You can run SSH on mobile devices and in a web broswer if desired...
(DIR) Post #2547540 by igeljaeger@the.hedgehoghunter.club
2019-01-02T15:57:12.055272Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@kemonine uuh it kinda means "Impressive 'upperclass man'". You cant really translate senpai one to one into english.
(DIR) Post #2547552 by grips@pikachu.rocks
2019-01-02T15:57:35.752389Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@igeljaeger @kemonine to quote /g/ (nabbed from cock.li):Administering a mail host is sort of like being a nurse; there's a brief period at the start when the thought of seeing people's privates might be vaguely titillating in a theoretical sense, but that sort of thing doesn't last long when it's up against the daily reality of shit, piss, blood, and vomit.Now that I think about it, administering a mail host is exactly like being a nurse, only people die slightly less often.
(DIR) Post #2547555 by Wolf480pl@niu.moe
2019-01-02T15:57:31Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@kemonine @igeljaeger @codewiz @orekix Yeah, and it should be inconvenient enough that you will want to avoid it unless it's an emergency :P
(DIR) Post #2547556 by igeljaeger@the.hedgehoghunter.club
2019-01-02T15:57:46.780570Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@p yeah EU is pretty authoritarian about email privacy actually (on paper)
(DIR) Post #2547569 by Wolf480pl@niu.moe
2019-01-02T15:58:10Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@kemonine @igeljaeger @codewiz @orekix IMO sounds like a great method to change your habits.
(DIR) Post #2547583 by kemonine@social.holdmybeer.solutions
2019-01-02T15:59:13.771603Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@igeljaeger I had a hunch, thank you.And not upperclass at all 😉 Just student when first deployed and "it's been mostly fine for the last 5 years... why change it" attitude.Until gmail and yahoo and a few other isps ruined it for the "small guy".
(DIR) Post #2547612 by p@freespeechextremist.com
2019-01-02T16:00:12.038373Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@igeljaeger Really? All I know about it is the glowing praise for their ability to make Facebook tone it down and send you a big wad of paper. I hate the stupid GDPR stuff, which I'm pretty sure exists to drive out small organizations, but I'm not completely up on it. Is it worse than it sounds?
(DIR) Post #2547624 by igeljaeger@the.hedgehoghunter.club
2019-01-02T16:00:20.173018Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@kemonine you can use the word in a "we all go to the school of life" sense. Anybody can be a senpai!
(DIR) Post #2547657 by p@freespeechextremist.com
2019-01-02T16:01:20.609854Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@codewiz @igeljaeger @kemonine @orekix @Wolf480pl Yeah. My mail server has no web access (just a couple of users), mobile is handled through IMAP. I think setting up SMTP is more annoying than setting up IMAP.
(DIR) Post #2547677 by Wolf480pl@niu.moe
2019-01-02T16:01:40Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@codewiz @orekix @kemonine @igeljaeger Well, personally I think accessing email from an untrusted device wouldn't be very wise, considering that 90% of online accounts have password reset by email.As for mobile phone - it depends.I think touchscreens are too clunky to reply to emails, so the only use of email on phone would be getting notifications.Had that for a while. Then, for the last year I didn't.Not sure which is better time-organization-wise.
(DIR) Post #2547694 by nihl@p.umbriel.fr
2019-01-02T16:00:01.573312Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@kemonine @Michcioperz ZFS snapshots from my NASes to a local backup server, then duplicity from local to two remote servers. I've kept the process simple, I've tried other solutions but they always felt too hard to maintain for something as critical as backups.
(DIR) Post #2547695 by kemonine@social.holdmybeer.solutions
2019-01-02T16:02:53.581925Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@nihl @Michcioperz 😁 I <3 reading this.Have you looked at the OpenStack option in duplicity? Providers like OVH offer really cheap bulk storage options in OpenStack that I've found to be cheaper than renting dedicated machines for storage needs.If you're really daring you can use minio with their azure blob storage bridge and reduce costs as well. I just deployed a minio container that bridges to azure blob storage to reduce some of my storage costs from about $20/mo -> $2/mo...
(DIR) Post #2547702 by Wolf480pl@niu.moe
2019-01-02T16:03:02Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@codewiz @orekix @kemonine @igeljaeger Getting no notifications, and only checking email once or twice a day, has its advantages (though my collegues will probably disagree).
(DIR) Post #2547709 by kemonine@social.holdmybeer.solutions
2019-01-02T16:03:19.763783Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@igeljaeger I like it.Which language is the root for senpai?
(DIR) Post #2547720 by codewiz@mstdn.io
2019-01-02T16:03:05Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@kemonine @igeljaeger @Wolf480pl @orekix Yes, but mutt over ssh on a phone seems less ergonomic than #k9mail 😅
(DIR) Post #2547726 by igeljaeger@the.hedgehoghunter.club
2019-01-02T16:04:00.392814Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@kemonine japanese haha
(DIR) Post #2547749 by Wolf480pl@niu.moe
2019-01-02T16:04:23Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@codewiz @orekix @kemonine @igeljaeger But then again, it's all subjective, YMMV.
(DIR) Post #2548001 by thatbrickster@pleroma.cucked.me
2019-01-02T16:12:27.125610Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@p I work in insurance, and it has been detrimental to how we work. I wasn't a fan of GDPR considering how most people were unaware of their privacy rights beforehand. @igeljaeger
(DIR) Post #2548036 by ifixcoinops@mastodon.social
2019-01-02T16:10:23Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@kemonine Yes. There are lots of people who should self-host, but they're not NEARLY the majority, and for everyone to do it involves a huge duplication of effort. As an analogy, you don't need to go out and buy a TIG welder, gas bottles, protective gear, learn how to use it etc etc - you just need a mate who's a welder. (if there's no welder in your friends group then by all means become that guy)
(DIR) Post #2548038 by igeljaeger@the.hedgehoghunter.club
2019-01-02T16:13:57.083676Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@p I'm not really sure but it VERY annoying to say the last. I don't even know if my instance is technically "illegal" now
(DIR) Post #2548039 by nihl@p.umbriel.fr
2019-01-02T16:12:57.726982Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@kemonine @Michcioperz I'll have a look at it, I kinda stopped searching for new options after finding one that works (but isn't the cheapest, I pay a bit less than 50€/month for 2x4TB). Dedicated servers are a good compromise between ease of maintenance and price/TB, and they fit pretty well with how I manage the rest of my infrastructure.
(DIR) Post #2548129 by 1iceloops123@shitposter.club
2019-01-02T16:16:16.002138Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@igeljaeger @kemonine I only store my stuff locally because I am a poor normie.
(DIR) Post #2548155 by igeljaeger@the.hedgehoghunter.club
2019-01-02T16:17:12.463152Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@1iceloops123 @kemonine well I do too lol. I "host" at home.
(DIR) Post #2548196 by codewiz@mstdn.io
2019-01-02T16:18:15Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@Wolf480pl @orekix @kemonine @igeljaeger @p The hardest part of email hosting these days is getting delivery to work reliably. New IPs have no reputation, and most SMTP clients will aggressively block or greylist any IP unlisted by various RBLs. Setting up DKIM, SPF and DMARC helps, but it's even more RFCs to read, more integration, more testing and more fragility if keys expire or whatever.Also, while you're at it, why not also self-host authoritative nameservers? Why, I did that too 😃
(DIR) Post #2548204 by cereal@shitposter.club
2019-01-02T16:17:51.875026Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@igeljaeger @1iceloops123 @kemonine nice dox breh
(DIR) Post #2548243 by igeljaeger@the.hedgehoghunter.club
2019-01-02T16:19:12.803068Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@cereal @1iceloops123 @kemonine trace my IP and youll only find my ISP who uuuh prob wont give you my address
(DIR) Post #2548259 by Wolf480pl@niu.moe
2019-01-02T16:19:38Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@codewiz @orekix @kemonine @igeljaeger @p Self-hosting authoritative DNS?Two of my friends do that without major problems.
(DIR) Post #2548290 by kemonine@social.holdmybeer.solutions
2019-01-02T16:20:18.509773Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Wolf480pl @p @igeljaeger @orekix @codewiz I think that's partly due to Unbound being much more accessible than bindAs well as dnsmasq...
(DIR) Post #2548350 by Wolf480pl@niu.moe
2019-01-02T16:21:31Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@kemonine @igeljaeger @codewiz @p @orekix no, not unbound... unbound is for caching resolver, not for authoritative DNS...For authoritative DNS we (my friends, and my workplace) use NSD.
(DIR) Post #2548553 by codewiz@mstdn.io
2019-01-02T16:27:40Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@Wolf480pl @orekix @kemonine @igeljaeger @p I never said it's a problem, but it's even more stuff to learn, configure and maintain. Wouldn't this add at least a few more hours of skilled sysadmin labor to the total cost of self-hosting email?(let's assume that our only goal is a working personal email server, and not acquiring useful sysadmin skills or having fun with servers)
(DIR) Post #2548576 by Wolf480pl@niu.moe
2019-01-02T16:28:26Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@codewiz @orekix @kemonine @igeljaeger @p From my POV, that's work you do once, and then it kinda takes care of itself...?
(DIR) Post #2548810 by p@freespeechextremist.com
2019-01-02T16:34:55.238173Z
4 likes, 0 repeats
@codewiz @igeljaeger @kemonine @orekix @Wolf480pl I don't have trouble getting through, but for a couple of months I was getting straight-up black-holed by GMail, not even in the spam box. SPF fixed it. That was a pain entirely because finding information on how to implement it was annoying, and the trivial case is broken: when there's no SPF record, if the server sending the mail is the one the MX record points to, it is pretty reasonable to assume that this host is authorized to send mail for that domain. Once I pieced together what I actually had to do, it took all of ten seconds.I do also host my own nameservers. That's actually a huge, huge time-saver. I don't have to fiddle with some stupid web UI (or some Amazon-designed blasphemous affront to the very concept of an API) to change the record, I can script changes trivially, etc. It's one of the areas where self-hosting actually *saves* you time.
(DIR) Post #2548839 by p@freespeechextremist.com
2019-01-02T16:35:49.056059Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@kemonine @Wolf480pl @igeljaeger @orekix @codewiz Yeah, I'd use dnsmasq if I didn't want anything complicated from my nameservers. I haven't tried Unbound; I use PowerDNS.
(DIR) Post #2549145 by codewiz@mstdn.io
2019-01-02T16:44:47Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Wolf480pl @orekix @kemonine @igeljaeger @p In my experience, the collection of manually integrated daemons that form a full MTA setup is very fragile. On every system upgrade, it's the first thing that breaks or needs some manual configuration merging. This adds a few extra hours of maintenance every 2 years.
(DIR) Post #2549201 by p@freespeechextremist.com
2019-01-02T16:47:47.005983Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@codewiz @igeljaeger @kemonine @orekix @Wolf480pl I use Dovecot and exim, they seem pretty easy to integrate and low-effort to update. What do you use for those?I've got a friend that thinks exim is my biggest failure as a human being and that I should have been using postfix but exim was nice enough that I am not sure postfix would make my life any easier.
(DIR) Post #2549366 by Wolf480pl@niu.moe
2019-01-02T16:53:15Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@p @codewiz @igeljaeger @kemonine @orekix From what I've seen, OpenSMTPD is very nice, but last time I tried to use it, the filter subsystem (which is necesary for stuff like SPF verification of inbound email) was in the middle of a refactor...But looks like they finally got the filter design right, so maybe it's time to look into it againhttps://poolp.org/posts/2018-11-03/opensmtpd-released-and-upcoming-filters-preview/
(DIR) Post #2549439 by codewiz@mstdn.io
2019-01-02T16:55:29Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Wolf480pl @orekix @kemonine @igeljaeger @p And another hassle is chasing the evolution of protocols which incrementally improve privacy and integrity of email delivery with some level of backwards compatibility.You *could* choose to ignore all these optional bells and whistles, but then you'd have more privacy and security by sticking with Gmail (or even Yahoo, really).
(DIR) Post #2549886 by edebill@wandering.shop
2019-01-02T17:08:57Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@halfbyte @kemonine we also need to make sure what we do is portable when we don’t self-host. Being able to switch hosts without loss of data/subscribers/address is important.
(DIR) Post #2549950 by louisoft01@social.louisoft01.moe
2019-01-02T17:10:44.774187Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@igeljaeger @p that’s why you use PGP, the email service I use is hosted in the EU but it’s hosted on Flokkii net and the company that owns it is based in the Seychelles
(DIR) Post #2550011 by codewiz@mstdn.io
2019-01-02T17:12:32Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Wolf480pl @p @igeljaeger @kemonine @orekix My first MTA design ~15 years ago was a Red Hat box with qmail built from sources + courier-imap + DSPAM & SpamAssassin + SquirrelMail + procmail. Plus OpenLDAP for accounts and BIND for the ns.I maintained an intricate mail setup with multiple layers of exim for the FSF when I was a professional sysadmin, and for a free software project, long time ago I setup postfix + dovecot + SpamAssassin + mailman2, and I'm still supporting this on and off...
(DIR) Post #2552276 by meowski@freespeechextremist.com
2019-01-02T18:28:03.778174Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@p @codewiz @igeljaeger @kemonine @orekix @Wolf480pl I still use sendmail. Pls no bulli
(DIR) Post #2553653 by moonman@shitposter.club
2019-01-02T19:23:54.701610Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@meowski @p @codewiz @igeljaeger @kemonine @orekix @wolf480pl oh I will bully. > using sendmail in ${CURRENT_YEAR}
(DIR) Post #2553664 by Wolf480pl@niu.moe
2019-01-02T19:25:37Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@moonman @meowski @p @codewiz @igeljaeger @kemonine @orekix I bet he has a good reason to do it though. Like, operating a mail relay between 2 different networks... eg. between internet and UUCP....
(DIR) Post #2553788 by meowski@freespeechextremist.com
2019-01-02T19:31:39.193377Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@Wolf480pl @orekix @kemonine @igeljaeger @codewiz @p @moonman I just know how to configure it, and it's been working fine for me for like 10+ years. It has a fail2ban plugin and some anti spam blacklists that I use, and client mailboxes are alrady in that format so i have no reason to try anything else.