Post 233339 by lunch@knzk.me
(DIR) More posts by lunch@knzk.me
(DIR) Post #220401 by lunch@knzk.me
2018-09-26T19:26:01Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
virtue signaling is real, and you should be wary of those within Our Movement who do it. denying that it exists because right wingers have learned the phrase is really stupid and opens us up to being co-opted by psychos like, say, the children of hedge fund managers who live in penthouses and vote/donate to the democratic party and actively stifle progressive activism by having tantrums.
(DIR) Post #220442 by Mephistopheles@ennui.industries
2018-09-26T19:26:49Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@lunch solution: AK-47s
(DIR) Post #220476 by lunch@knzk.me
2018-09-26T19:27:41Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@Mephistopheles i am "signaling" the "virtue" of an automatic firearm that i am carrying and pointing at a landlord.
(DIR) Post #220518 by lunch@knzk.me
2018-09-26T19:29:41Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
It's really funny that despite being the side of "over educated over sensitive millenials" or whatever the Left is supposed to be these days, we fall really easily for incredibly basic rhetorical tricks like "if the other side uses a word or phrase, it is immediately wrong and bad even if it describes a real problem." if steve bannon started saying "i am a communist" at least 10% of leftists would start saying "thats a dogwhistle. saying youre communist is a racist dogwhistle"
(DIR) Post #221127 by Ross@knzk.me
2018-09-26T19:44:52Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@lunch I’m no wrecker. I merely convinced half the people I know to quit organizing because someone failed to consult me personally before working on their own project. And if you bring up how all of this stands to benefit me, you’re arguing in bad faith.
(DIR) Post #221230 by mardiroos@knzk.me
2018-09-26T19:46:47Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@lunch I mean I think it gets used by people on the left, too, who want to argue that all their critics are acting in bad faith, or just signalling virtue, as opposed to engaging for substantive reasons. I think the trouble with the phrase is like.... actually taking any kind of ethical stance in public is inherently virtue signalling, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. trouble is when what someone is signalling is counter to what they actually believe or do (which I think you're getting at).
(DIR) Post #221373 by grandpawg@knzk.me
2018-09-26T19:50:49Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@lunch do you think virtue signalling and woke posturing is the same thing? because i mostly see leftists using the phrase “woke posturing”
(DIR) Post #221375 by lunch@knzk.me
2018-09-26T19:50:52Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Ross thinking about this reactionary twerp and how they use the language of liberals to paint themselves as America's Lenin makes me incredibly angry.
(DIR) Post #221401 by lunch@knzk.me
2018-09-26T19:51:44Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@mardiroos that is indeed what I am getting at. My point is that it is a neutral term and you need to look at the context in which it is being used before you accuse someone of doing fascist dogwhistles
(DIR) Post #221431 by lunch@knzk.me
2018-09-26T19:52:22Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@grandpawg woke posturing is the same thing, yes, but saying it in a way that loads it with value ahead of time rather than later on
(DIR) Post #221665 by thereddishgreens@mastodon.social
2018-09-26T19:59:48Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@lunchpoint taken, and you're not wrong or anything, but i'm just laughing because i remember the time steve bannon called himself a "leninist."
(DIR) Post #221667 by mardiroos@knzk.me
2018-09-26T19:59:57Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@lunch yup. for sure. it's a descriptor, and not necessarily of a bad thing, it's not like "degenerate" or something along those lines.
(DIR) Post #222018 by thereddishgreens@mastodon.social
2018-09-26T20:01:26Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@lunchoh and aparently you mentioned this in the comments of the first toot. anyhow, carry on.
(DIR) Post #222019 by lunch@knzk.me
2018-09-26T20:09:41Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@thereddishgreens that was incredibly funny to me lol. i read an article about rupert murdoch ages ago that mentioned he had a bust of lenin (or marx, cant remember) in his office or house for many years
(DIR) Post #222022 by lunch@knzk.me
2018-09-26T20:09:56Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@mardiroos Exactly.
(DIR) Post #228972 by Absolutely_Blakely@bofa.lol
2018-09-26T23:21:51Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@lunch @grandpawg what is woke posturing and how do I avoid doing it?
(DIR) Post #230041 by Discourse_Stu@bofa.lol
2018-09-26T23:32:47Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Absolutely_Blakely @lunch @grandpawgthere's a bunch of things you can call it, but it effectively amounts to making a show of having popular/correct opinions, taste or affiliation for the sake of social capital rather than being honest with your thoughts and feelings, good and bad, woke or otherwise.
(DIR) Post #230042 by Absolutely_Blakely@bofa.lol
2018-09-26T23:37:20Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Discourse_Stu @lunch @grandpawg I’m sorry. I made it sound like I’ve never heard of it. What I’m really curious about is how to detect it. A few years ago a friend implied that “I Voted!” stickers were virtue signaling and I thought, “damn let people enjoy shit unironically.” I feel like I hear it applies in a poisonous way, like Holden Caulfield calling people phonies and poseurs
(DIR) Post #230043 by Discourse_Stu@bofa.lol
2018-09-26T23:40:38Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Absolutely_Blakely @lunch @grandpawgThat's a really good point! People also like to have identities, to display and perform their feelings, beliefs, affiliations. It's very normal.There is no easy way to identify it. It's part gut, part context.In truth recognizing it isn't the problem, it's taking the emphasis off performance/appearance as an evaluative method in the first place.
(DIR) Post #230044 by Discourse_Stu@bofa.lol
2018-09-26T23:42:20Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Absolutely_Blakely @lunch @grandpawgWe gotta learn to not make substantial and snap judgements based on what people appear to be ordering perform, but accept and navigate the ambiguity and uncertainty and complexity of people and the long imperfect process of figuring out their deal in substance.ie - not relying on the flags ppl put in their bios and the wokeness of their jokes or posts to decide if they're Good or Bad, and rejecting simple binaries themselves
(DIR) Post #230045 by lunch@knzk.me
2018-09-26T23:50:23Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Discourse_Stu @Absolutely_Blakely @grandpawg even before we get to excommumicating people there's a big problem of just assuming everyone who rolls through with a rose emoji in their name who says "heckin puppers" every five minutes must be a Good Person Just Like Us
(DIR) Post #230407 by Boosie2016@switter.at
2018-09-26T23:59:27Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@lunch @Discourse_Stu @Absolutely_Blakely @grandpawg hey
(DIR) Post #230413 by lunch@knzk.me
2018-09-26T23:59:54Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Boosie2016 @Discourse_Stu @Absolutely_Blakely @grandpawg what's up
(DIR) Post #230453 by Boosie2016@switter.at
2018-09-27T00:00:30Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@lunch @Discourse_Stu @Absolutely_Blakely @grandpawg Hi...
(DIR) Post #230479 by Absolutely_Blakely@bofa.lol
2018-09-27T00:01:15Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@lunch @Discourse_Stu @grandpawg alright. Thank you. I think I have a much better grasp on what’s being discussed now
(DIR) Post #230537 by Discourse_Stu@bofa.lol
2018-09-27T00:02:25Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@lunch @Absolutely_Blakely @grandpawgand the opposite, that just because someone has an appearance, aesthetic, taste or sense of humour that contradicts the prevailing custom, doesn't mean they're evil.(obviously there's common sense exceptions, like swastika 1488 shit that is effectively identical to saying outright "im a literal nazi")
(DIR) Post #230738 by lunch@knzk.me
2018-09-27T00:09:11Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Boosie2016 @Discourse_Stu @Absolutely_Blakely @grandpawg what's up
(DIR) Post #232351 by helldude@mastodon.social
2018-09-27T00:43:38Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@lunch :thaenkin:
(DIR) Post #232360 by helldude@mastodon.social
2018-09-27T00:44:34Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@lunch I've said this in private but was always too cowardly to say it publicly so thanks - virtue signalling is 100% a thing
(DIR) Post #232416 by lunch@knzk.me
2018-09-27T00:45:57Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@helldude :thinking_up:
(DIR) Post #232464 by lunch@knzk.me
2018-09-27T00:46:59Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@helldude I don't have to worry about thousands of people screaming that I betrayed them by holding different opinions so it's less brave of me to say it. Keep it real rich
(DIR) Post #232532 by naturefan@knzk.me
2018-09-27T00:48:29Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@lunch i would love for thousands of people to scream at you lunch
(DIR) Post #232737 by helldude@mastodon.social
2018-09-27T00:53:20Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@lunch it's always funny when i have a take that is liberal the commies yell at me for being insufficiently commie and i have to awkwardly remind them im not a commie
(DIR) Post #232871 by lunch@knzk.me
2018-09-27T00:56:55Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@naturefan be the change you want to see in the world much, my bitch?
(DIR) Post #232901 by naturefan@knzk.me
2018-09-27T00:57:21Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@lunch im going to my dsa meeting to cancel you right now
(DIR) Post #232905 by ademska@mastodon.social
2018-09-27T00:50:54Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@helldude @lunch said it to the gf irl not ten minutes ago. It's a useful term, and tbh I'm kind of baffled this is a controversial take
(DIR) Post #232906 by lunch@knzk.me
2018-09-27T00:57:23Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ademska @helldude me too
(DIR) Post #232934 by lunch@knzk.me
2018-09-27T00:57:49Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@helldude "sorry for not being something I never said I was" is always a fun one that goes over well
(DIR) Post #232961 by lunch@knzk.me
2018-09-27T00:58:11Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@naturefan they have a DSA chapter at the zoo?
(DIR) Post #232984 by naturefan@knzk.me
2018-09-27T00:58:30Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@lunch no they do have one at the authentic caveman experience tho
(DIR) Post #233002 by bakeshakenbake@bofa.lol
2018-09-27T00:54:27Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ademska @helldude @lunch I think it’s controversial because the right has taken it to mean “any time someone to the left of Strom Thurmond has an opinion in a public space” and that’s usually when you hear it. So hearing it in its original meaning is kind of jarring
(DIR) Post #233003 by ademska@mastodon.social
2018-09-27T00:58:31Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@bakeshakenbake @helldude @lunch no, I understand that part, but I think I'm hung up on the fact that lefties only deploy it in obvious contexts, because its ubiquity in RW discourse means we use it judiciously and with precision...so like, how is anyone confused about this
(DIR) Post #233004 by lunch@knzk.me
2018-09-27T00:59:31Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ademska @bakeshakenbake @helldude when you're accused of something it's generally effective as a way to imply the other person is acting in bad faith and therefore you have done nothing wrong
(DIR) Post #233006 by lunch@knzk.me
2018-09-27T00:59:41Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@naturefan a DSA for neanderthals
(DIR) Post #233021 by naturefan@knzk.me
2018-09-27T01:00:06Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@lunch yeah otherwise known as DSA ukrainan caucus HA I CLAPPED BACK
(DIR) Post #233171 by dayglochainsaw@knzk.me
2018-09-27T01:02:51Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@lunch Jesus thank you for saying this. I hate to admit that 4chan chuds are ever right about anything, but I guess even a broken clock is right twice a day. Virtue signaling is definitely a thing and if more people understood that I think we'd be a lot farther along than we are today
(DIR) Post #233206 by ademska@mastodon.social
2018-09-27T01:04:26Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@lunch @bakeshakenbake @helldude as a defensive tactic, sure, but what about as an observational tool? (Even when it's defensive deployment, I kinda like to hope that people push past the initial reaction and remember the term's value)
(DIR) Post #233339 by lunch@knzk.me
2018-09-27T01:08:08Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ademska @bakeshakenbake @helldude a lot of Leftists Online have zero ideological discipline or desire to learn anything that makes them uncomfortable
(DIR) Post #233342 by ppng@bofa.lol
2018-09-27T01:03:54Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Dourse_Stu @lunch @Absolutely_Blakely @grandpawg There's a group called the Third Way using a similar variety of cant to erode principled opposition of any kind. Is that what you're doing, Stu?The problem with what you're saying is that it assumes other people's views are valuable, when most people are entirely lost or full of shit.Babytalking them around to to a sensible pov is mostly a waste of my time, and compromising with them is stupid. Neither is my responsibility, and neither benefits me more than they cost.You're just handwaving here.
(DIR) Post #233343 by lunch@knzk.me
2018-09-27T01:08:33Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ppng @Absolutely_Blakely @grandpawg what the fuck are you talking about
(DIR) Post #233360 by lunch@knzk.me
2018-09-27T01:09:16Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@naturefan that's right. The originators of socialism.
(DIR) Post #233516 by ademska@mastodon.social
2018-09-27T01:12:49Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@lunch @bakeshakenbake @helldude wheres the lie
(DIR) Post #233661 by ppng@bofa.lol
2018-09-27T01:17:00Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@lunch @Absolutely_Blakely @grandpawg I'm suggesting Stu's stance is a gambit to set himself up as the arbiter of proper behaviour, while claiming a 'higher' principle that has costs for others and is counterproductive to their desires.
(DIR) Post #233732 by lunch@knzk.me
2018-09-27T01:18:32Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ppng @Absolutely_Blakely @grandpawg you kind of implied he was a fascist.
(DIR) Post #233865 by ppng@bofa.lol
2018-09-27T01:22:59Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@lunch @Absolutely_Blakely @grandpawg Not intentionally. I don't think that..