Post 1763336 by Beacher@ramses.amicidelbaretto.org
(DIR) More posts by Beacher@ramses.amicidelbaretto.org
(DIR) Post #1749681 by sir@cmpwn.com
2018-12-05T20:28:17Z
11 likes, 13 repeats
Listen.DON'TUSESLACKFORFOSSPROJECTS
(DIR) Post #1749699 by chuck@linuxlab.sh
2018-12-05T20:29:01Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@sir HOWABOUTDISCORD?
(DIR) Post #1749715 by animeirl@social.homunyan.com
2018-12-05T20:29:32Z
2 likes, 1 repeats
@sir user discord instead!:blobtongue:
(DIR) Post #1749727 by Wolf480pl@niu.moe
2018-12-05T20:30:49Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir Is it ok to use slack for an internal chat for sysadmins?
(DIR) Post #1749728 by sir@cmpwn.com
2018-12-05T20:29:23Z
2 likes, 2 repeats
@chuck NO
(DIR) Post #1749775 by sir@cmpwn.com
2018-12-05T20:31:40Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Wolf480pl no
(DIR) Post #1749779 by sir@cmpwn.com
2018-12-05T20:31:44Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@animeirl no
(DIR) Post #1749790 by lain@pleroma.soykaf.com
2018-12-05T20:32:52.014406Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@sir this is missing something: 👏
(DIR) Post #1749818 by phoe@functional.cafe
2018-12-05T20:33:01Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@sir What alternatives could you suggest? IRC is text-only and primitive and Matrix is slow and I haven't yet seen a client with decent UX. I haven't used Zulip or Mattermost yet, I've only heard of them.
(DIR) Post #1749819 by Wolf480pl@niu.moe
2018-12-05T20:34:07Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@phoe @sir I've tried Zulip and it works pretty well.But when your servers go down, you need some chat that is _not_ on your server to coordinate the response.
(DIR) Post #1749919 by sir@cmpwn.com
2018-12-05T20:35:24Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Wolf480pl @phoe IRCCCCCC
(DIR) Post #1749930 by sir@cmpwn.com
2018-12-05T20:33:20Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@lain no
(DIR) Post #1750000 by sir@cmpwn.com
2018-12-05T20:33:34Z
1 likes, 4 repeats
@phoe IRC is king, text-only is a feature not a bug
(DIR) Post #1750004 by Wolf480pl@niu.moe
2018-12-05T20:41:24Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir @phoe Some people I have to work with don't understand this argument :/
(DIR) Post #1750009 by louisoft01@social.louisoft01.moe
2018-12-05T20:41:35.462837Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@sir don't use slack or discord
(DIR) Post #1750056 by MicroJoe@mastodon.opportunis.me
2018-12-05T20:38:47Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@sir IRC 👌
(DIR) Post #1750090 by slp@mstdn.io
2018-12-05T20:37:26Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@phoe @sir The fact that IRC is text-only (though there's an updated spec in the making) is not a handicap but a feature.IRC + mailing lists (with archives). When you put the facts on the table, there's nothing better.
(DIR) Post #1750113 by phoe@functional.cafe
2018-12-05T20:40:38Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir @slp Of course it's a feature - unless you want to chat with someone who isn't a complete and total developer nerd like me or you and wants standard contemporary features like automatic image uploads, conversation threads, channel history, or if you want to build a community of non-technological people around your software. At that point, I observed that people prefer to leave rather than stay on IRC.Or they start Discord servers of their own.
(DIR) Post #1750132 by Wolf480pl@niu.moe
2018-12-05T20:47:09Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@slp @phoe @sir Then please put these facts on the table. I only have intuition that IRC+email is better, but no arguments I could use to convince other people...
(DIR) Post #1750138 by miwilc@niu.moe
2018-12-05T20:40:49Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@sir @lain ...discord is better anyway
(DIR) Post #1750197 by sir@cmpwn.com
2018-12-05T20:41:26Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@miwilc @lain no
(DIR) Post #1750262 by moderator@freespeechextremist.com
2018-12-05T20:53:57.889540Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@slp @sir @phoe mailing lists are great, sure. but IRC lacks message history. should i stay on IRC 24/7 or deal with this fuckery with chat logs?
(DIR) Post #1750275 by sir@cmpwn.com
2018-12-05T20:43:51Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@phoe @slp I don't want to talk to them, actually.
(DIR) Post #1750286 by phoe@functional.cafe
2018-12-05T20:54:56Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@moderator @slp @sir Or have an IRC bot that collects logs, and pray that it does not have any downtime.
(DIR) Post #1750347 by phoe@functional.cafe
2018-12-05T20:45:12Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir @slp That's the difference between us.
(DIR) Post #1750359 by deejoe@mastodon.sdf.org
2018-12-05T20:46:13Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@phoeI'm sympathetic to those concerns.With IRC trollspamming finally endemic on many FOSS-associated networks & subsequent need for nick registration, the very low barrier-to-entry of IRC which was a trade-off against more intricate feature sets is gone.@sir @slp
(DIR) Post #1750360 by sir@cmpwn.com
2018-12-05T20:46:59Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@deejoe @phoe @slp right, let me know when Slack stops making your register too
(DIR) Post #1750375 by sir@cmpwn.com
2018-12-05T20:56:24Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@phoe @moderator @slp tools like irccloud make this easy. And it's more likely than not other people have their own logs to help build a full picture if some bot goes down. But here's the real answer:It's not a big deal if you miss some of the conversation.
(DIR) Post #1750389 by jakob@mastodon.sdf.org
2018-12-05T20:48:23Z
2 likes, 4 repeats
@sir Please don't use Discord for FOSS projects, either.
(DIR) Post #1750473 by pounce@cmpwn.com
2018-12-05T20:49:15Z
2 likes, 3 repeats
@sir@Wolf480plHe's something funny I heard.I have a friend who interned at Facebook (he now has a job offer), so the knows a bit about the company internal communication.Practically all internal communication is done with Facebook, because why not? It's the lowest common denominator. Messaging is done through Facebook messenger, teams are private groups, etc.Except one group has resisted this: the sysadmins.Sysadmins need to be able to communicate at all times, /especially/ if things aren't working. And it turns out that there's no way to make sure things like Facebook messenger always work—especially during outages. They're just too damn complicated.So, they came to a compromise. The rest of the company will move to Facebook, and the sysadmins will stay on IRC, the communication platform they know they can rely on.When Facebook's on fire and the company is panicking because they can't communicate, you can be sure of one thing: the sysadmins are chatting away on IRC about how to get it working again.
(DIR) Post #1750501 by deejoe@mastodon.sdf.org
2018-12-05T20:47:45Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@phoeThat said, there are many choices which provide more features, but retain IRC's end-to-end freedom.@sir @slp
(DIR) Post #1750502 by sir@cmpwn.com
2018-12-05T20:49:19Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@deejoe @phoe @slp more features are the opposite of what we need
(DIR) Post #1750529 by slp@mstdn.io
2018-12-05T20:46:52Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@phoe @sir The original toot was talking about FOSS projects, so I'm assuming most people involved have a technical background.Also, with the proper tools, IRC isn't hard to use at all.
(DIR) Post #1750530 by phoe@functional.cafe
2018-12-05T20:50:21Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@slp @sir Yep - my case is perhaps a little bit more specific. I want a means of collaborating with people who are both deeply technical and deeply non-technical, and also includes most (or at least some) of the features I have listed above. When it comes to programming, I'm eager to nerd all over Freenode, but when it comes to collaborating with non-technerds, I'm looking for something more featureful, or the community will go set up a Discord server anyway.
(DIR) Post #1750531 by sir@cmpwn.com
2018-12-05T20:52:17Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@phoe @slp I reject this idea that non-nerds *need* features. It makes no sense. More features is more difficult to comprehend.
(DIR) Post #1750536 by moderator@freespeechextremist.com
2018-12-05T21:05:19.065544Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir @slp @phoe to me it's still quite uncomfortable to go to separate page and look for the logs. i'd rather choose to talk via XMPP and if you don't want useless crap such as images and stuff, you can just don't use unneeded extensions
(DIR) Post #1750762 by slp@mstdn.io
2018-12-05T21:13:16Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@moderator @sir @phoe Important stuff must go via mailing list, where is archived in a way friendly to search engine crawlers.You can easily find threads of LKML or *BSD just by searching on DuckDuckGo. Losing that due to the use of Slack or Discord is a *huge* loss, but we'll only be conscious about that in 3-5 years.
(DIR) Post #1750795 by sir@cmpwn.com
2018-12-05T21:07:53Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@moderator @slp @phoe I hardly ever need to reference logs. How often do you actually need to? The rest of the time is just catching up on shit you didn't need to see anyway
(DIR) Post #1750908 by moderator@freespeechextremist.com
2018-12-05T21:17:34.822649Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@sir @slp @phoe what about designers? i'm not actually one of them myself so i may be wrong but i'm pretty sure they won't refuse to have features such as image sharing and stuff
(DIR) Post #1750985 by deejoe@mastodon.sdf.org
2018-12-05T21:08:58Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@siryou know, you really don't have to get in my face with that shiti don't fucking use slack @phoe @slp
(DIR) Post #1750986 by jcbrand@mastodon.xyz
2018-12-05T21:09:20Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@phoe @sir I'll help any person or project who wants to try XMPP-based chat.Take a look at https://chat.prosody.im/ and https://chat.jabberfr.org/converse.js/jabberfr@chat.jabberfr.org
(DIR) Post #1750987 by sir@cmpwn.com
2018-12-05T21:10:43Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@jcbrand @phoe I'll help any person or project who wants to try IRC instead, don't listen to this XMPP noise
(DIR) Post #1750988 by sir@cmpwn.com
2018-12-05T21:11:04Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@jcbrand @phoe the X in XMPP is XML if anyone needs a quick reason to dismiss it
(DIR) Post #1750989 by jcbrand@mastodon.xyz
2018-12-05T21:15:36Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@sir @phoe Actually, it stands for eXtensible.
(DIR) Post #1750990 by 361.xj9@social.sunshinegardens.org
2018-12-05T21:19:47.667053Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jcbrand @phoe @sir xmpp is a great protocol tho
(DIR) Post #1751022 by jalcine@playvicious.social
2018-12-05T21:08:35Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@jakob @sir what do y'all suggest that's approachable for people who got into the tech space circa 2013 onwards?I highlight that because IRC is hard for me to get into (not me but I've heard). I see https://mattermost.com/ and http://gitter.im/ as alternatives but one is closed + requires github login
(DIR) Post #1751023 by sir@cmpwn.com
2018-12-05T21:09:34Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jalcine @jakob just figure out IRC. What's hard about it?
(DIR) Post #1751059 by ng0@social.n0.is
2018-12-05T21:21:32.958284Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir @slp @moderator @phoe We had some reason to start publishing logs. I don't really agree with it being useful for all cases, but our project leader had some reasons for it.Being able to disconnect and not expect people to be connected 24/7 in the network might be a challenge for some younger people or people who got used to history synchronization.I find it liberating. If I'm not online, I'm not online.
(DIR) Post #1751060 by sir@cmpwn.com
2018-12-05T21:09:50Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@deejoe @phoe @slp well slack is what we're fucking talking about pal
(DIR) Post #1751139 by 361.xj9@social.sunshinegardens.org
2018-12-05T21:24:13.462093Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@sir USE XMPP
(DIR) Post #1751160 by deejoe@mastodon.sdf.org
2018-12-05T21:12:10Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@siryes, I've seen how you cherish such an expansive & welcoming "we" @phoe @slp
(DIR) Post #1751210 by sir@cmpwn.com
2018-12-05T21:12:59Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@deejoe @phoe @slp who pissed in your coffee & asprin mug this morning
(DIR) Post #1751239 by sir@cmpwn.com
2018-12-05T21:19:24Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@moderator @slp @phoe some IRC clients like The Longue support inline images etc
(DIR) Post #1751273 by jalcine@playvicious.social
2018-12-05T21:15:51Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir What's easy and simple for you may not be for others. Interfaces may be perplexing for some; channel discovery, etc.It sounds like you've worked with it for some time; I have as well for close to a decade. It doesn't dismiss that if you want people in; you have to reach out to where they are at times.@jakob
(DIR) Post #1751330 by sir@cmpwn.com
2018-12-05T21:17:52Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jcbrand @phoe okay. Still. XMPP is based on XML
(DIR) Post #1751359 by sir@cmpwn.com
2018-12-05T21:18:22Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jalcine @jakob have you tried the lounge
(DIR) Post #1751436 by deejoe@mastodon.sdf.org
2018-12-05T21:20:09Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sirso, you're here to promote slack, then?if not, then maybe we're also talking about something else too@phoe @slp
(DIR) Post #1751469 by vanecx@mastodon.pirateparty.be
2018-12-05T21:23:57Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir IRC is not super user friendly.A mix Matrix & Discourse, maybe? @jalcine @jakob
(DIR) Post #1751502 by sir@cmpwn.com
2018-12-05T21:24:25Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@xj9 NO USE IRC
(DIR) Post #1751550 by sir@cmpwn.com
2018-12-05T21:24:34Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@vanecx @jalcine @jakob The Lounge is very user friendly
(DIR) Post #1751590 by the_gayest_doggo@whomst.dog
2018-12-05T21:22:36Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@jalcine @jakob @sir I am having a great time with matrix! you can message in markdown, have a group call, optionally host your own server, and it uses double ratchet (signal's encryption).If you wanna derp around and check it out, I suggest you download the app riot.im, and if you want I run a server at whomst.online :>
(DIR) Post #1751591 by f0x@social.lain.haus
2018-12-05T21:24:24.589091Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@the_gayest_doggo @sir @jakob @jalcine +1 for Matrix, it's great!It's also very easy to bridge to irc (transparantly!!!), so all the irc nerds will be happy too :P
(DIR) Post #1751592 by sir@cmpwn.com
2018-12-05T21:25:11Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@f0x @the_gayest_doggo @jakob @jalcine Matrix is the best IRC bridge but it still annoys IRC users when Matrix users try to use Matrix-specific features on it
(DIR) Post #1751687 by deejoe@mastodon.sdf.org
2018-12-05T21:28:56Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sirI don't know, but, see, it's afternoon here, and there's this guy in the timeline being all shouty, who then gets all knee jerk & sarcastic even with folks who support some his points.But nah, that couldn't be it, could it?@phoe @slp
(DIR) Post #1751802 by ben@ischool.social
2018-12-05T21:31:38Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir @jalcine @jakob I use The Lounge for IRC (https://thelounge.chat/) hosted via a Cloudron.io instance, but there's also Matrix (open, federated, e2e encryption optional)
(DIR) Post #1751805 by thurloat@mastodon.club
2018-12-05T21:37:10Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir @xj9 NO USE RETROSHARE CHAT ROOMS
(DIR) Post #1751806 by 361.xj9@social.sunshinegardens.org
2018-12-05T21:42:24.611780Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@thurloat @sir does irc have e2ee?
(DIR) Post #1751948 by jalcine@playvicious.social
2018-12-05T21:43:07Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir I have and suggested it plenty of times for people! I do wish people used it more.However, again, it requires people to set up an instance for their own use. I don't think it'd be hard to make it into a turn-key service or them having a one-click deploy to something like Heroku @jakob
(DIR) Post #1751968 by sydneyfalk@elekk.xyz
2018-12-05T21:43:52Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir @phoe @slp yet: if everynerdy did that, nerds would be dead within a few decades entirely.nobody's born a nerd. people don't learn in a vacuum. some people need people contact to learn, or pictures, or whatever.if you're not volunteering to teach, that's understandable -- I refuse too -- but from someone with severe learning problems, I can tell you accessible isn't just cheap hardwareit's unicode, screenreaders, pictures, text-to-speech, and sometimes people contactjust saying ❤️
(DIR) Post #1751999 by sir@cmpwn.com
2018-12-05T21:47:35Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@xj9 @thurloat yes via OTR
(DIR) Post #1752051 by sir@cmpwn.com
2018-12-05T21:48:40Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sydneyfalk @phoe @slp I disagree. 90% of modern nerds were raised on text. They somehow figured it out. You know computers had text-only interfaces *before* they had raster interfaces, right?
(DIR) Post #1752102 by sir@cmpwn.com
2018-12-05T21:49:12Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@sydneyfalk @phoe @slp not to mention that IRC is by FAR the most accessible chat medium, if you're going to drop the text-to-speech into this discussion
(DIR) Post #1752143 by sydneyfalk@elekk.xyz
2018-12-05T21:51:18Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir @phoe @slp I cut my teeth on Doom, son. ;) I'm aware. And I flailed desperately for years and years, mostly due to my learning defects and low tolerance for frustration.This is also arguably an example of the "well X was just fine why would we Y"? We didn't go to the moon for years and years, said people during the space race -- why bother now? It's a waste of money, yeesh.Nobody knows what lies beyond their space if they refuse to innovate past what they are already comfortable with.
(DIR) Post #1752202 by sir@cmpwn.com
2018-12-05T21:52:38Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@sydneyfalk @phoe @slp I'm not making a general argument here, just refuting your idea that nerds would die out if we used text-only interfaces. They wouldn't.
(DIR) Post #1752210 by hankg@mastodon.technology
2018-12-05T21:53:28Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir what are your thoughts on a good alternative besides IRC or setting up your own MatterMost server?
(DIR) Post #1752244 by sir@cmpwn.com
2018-12-05T21:55:36Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@hankg IRC
(DIR) Post #1752273 by pettter@social.umeahackerspace.se
2018-12-05T21:53:40+00:00
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jakob @sir OTOH please use whatever communication medium _gets your code written, user tests done, UI made to work, bugs fixed, translations incorporated_ etc. etc. But do keep some freedom and agency, to the extent that it's possible.
(DIR) Post #1752274 by sir@cmpwn.com
2018-12-05T21:56:15Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@pettter @jakob process is important. By your advice no one would be using git
(DIR) Post #1752361 by skybrian@cmpwn.com
2018-12-05T22:00:16Z
0 likes, 2 repeats
@pounce @sir @Wolf480pl Yep, IRC is commonly used by sysadmins.From: https://landing.google.com/sre/sre-book/chapters/managing-incidents/"Google has found IRC to be a huge boon in incident response. IRC is very reliable and can be used as a log of communications about this event, and such a record is invaluable in keeping detailed state changes in mind. We’ve also written bots that log incident-related traffic (which is helpful for postmortem analysis), and other bots that log events such as alerts to the channel. IRC is also a convenient medium over which geographically distributed teams can coordinate."
(DIR) Post #1752430 by sydneyfalk@elekk.xyz
2018-12-05T22:03:44Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir @phoe @slp If you're using lynx right now to toot things, I will literally accept that you literally believe this.Especially if you don't have a smartphone (which was decried as 'dumbed down' computing by some, IIRC).Otherwise, I'm going to assume you believe it in some sense, in a "well I had to so they have to" sense. And I'm gonna tell you, as someone who thought that way a long time: It doesn't move forward. It is stationary.It is, long-term, quite unhelpful. (IMO, obviously.)
(DIR) Post #1752836 by starbreaker@octodon.social
2018-12-05T22:21:30Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir We shouldn't be using proprietary comma for ANY projects.
(DIR) Post #1752934 by grainloom@cybre.space
2018-12-05T22:25:14Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir @phoe the lack of proper support for multiple logins does kind of kill it though, most people don't have the patience to set up bouncers
(DIR) Post #1753093 by algernon@trunk.mad-scientist.club
2018-12-05T22:32:33Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir @phoe IRC is king if your community is made of developers. And if you can deal with spam (if you're all devs, +r and the like helps).If you have a FOSS project where most members of the community are not devs (or even tech savvy), IRC is sadly far from being king. First, end-users will not set up bouncers, and lack of history is an issue. Then comes spam (and +r isn't an option, since end-users ain't going to talk to NickServ). :|
(DIR) Post #1754228 by hankg@mastodon.technology
2018-12-05T23:11:21Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir We use that on Diaspora and after having used more modern messaging systems I have to say that it leaves a lot to be desired.
(DIR) Post #1757857 by pettter@social.umeahackerspace.se
2018-12-05T22:02:01+00:00
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir @jakob Huh? Git is a great tool, and crucially it keeps you much less dependent on any particular vendor than, say, SVN hosted by SourceForge did.
(DIR) Post #1757858 by sir@cmpwn.com
2018-12-06T02:09:56Z
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@pettter @jakob so is IRC!
(DIR) Post #1763336 by Beacher@ramses.amicidelbaretto.org
2018-12-06T07:49:37Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir riot or mattermost anytime
(DIR) Post #1764151 by OlaHughson@niu.moe
2018-12-06T08:53:03Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir why would anyone use slack?
(DIR) Post #1766333 by marix@chaos.social
2018-12-06T08:26:32Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@pounce @sir @Wolf480pl this is not solely a problem of Facebook and the greatness of IRC. Any system will go down at times and if you are the one to bring it up again you better have another way than that system to communicate. Of course, IRC being a battle-proven and resource-friendly technology is a good choice for this. Yet, unless you are operating Slack, you can of course also use that. Just have a backup plan on what you do if your Internet, or Slack, goes down.
(DIR) Post #1766334 by Wolf480pl@niu.moe
2018-12-06T10:24:32Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@marix @pounce @sir You can also observe over a period of a year or two how often slack goes down vs how often IRC goes down.You'll notice that slack always goes down then you need it the most.OTOH, IRC never goes down. Sometimes it has netsplits, but even then you can still communicate with some of the people in the channel, and you can hop servers to find everyone else.IOW, IRC is more resilient.
(DIR) Post #1766762 by wowaname@anime.website
2018-12-06T10:38:39.789783Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@f0x @the_gayest_doggo @sir @jakob @jalcine matrix is poorly designed, irc is poorly designed (nobody follows the core standard anymore and there are hundreds of nonstandard vendor extensions), i honestly dont know how to feel about xmpp other than the fact that historically there have been a lot of competing extensions for the same features and a bunch of mediocre xmpp clients
(DIR) Post #1766773 by wowaname@anime.website
2018-12-06T10:39:06.575297Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@xj9 @thurloat @sir no, and xmpp's omemo isn't scalable
(DIR) Post #1766874 by tuxayo@esperanto.masto.host
2018-12-06T10:43:34Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir Same about GitHub, even if it can be harder.
(DIR) Post #1767450 by jakob@mastodon.sdf.org
2018-12-06T11:06:26Z
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@wowaname @f0x @the_gayest_doggo @jalcine @sir I can look past "poorly designed," especially since new versions of both specs are being developed
(DIR) Post #1767451 by wowaname@anime.website
2018-12-06T11:14:22.180312Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jakob @sir @jalcine @the_gayest_doggo @f0x except that isnt how it works in reality. the need for backwards compatibility will forever curse the protocols that get "upgraded" and then we're stuck with partial adoption and an even messier protocol than we started out with
(DIR) Post #1767500 by wowaname@anime.website
2018-12-06T11:17:24.517257Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@jakob @sir @jalcine @the_gayest_doggo @f0x irc, matrix, and xmpp all have an equal downfall: they're all plaintext ergo not binary safe, and as a result it's that much more difficult to implement filesharing, voice, video, and other multimedia features. we end up with bolted-on functionality for all that, or serialising binary data into plaintext (base64 or character escape sequences for instance) and just causing it to be overall inelegant
(DIR) Post #1767808 by Flisk@youdieifyou.work
2018-12-06T11:29:41.266583Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@pounceirc is the failsafe backbone of the world's largest social media platform. i love it. 😁
(DIR) Post #1768019 by jakob@mastodon.sdf.org
2018-12-06T11:38:20Z
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@wowaname @f0x @the_gayest_doggo @jalcine @sir Have you looked at the IRCv3 spec? I don't think it has a bad approach to backwards compatibility. As for the issue of features like voice/video, my mentality is that a chat protocol shouldn't be a monolith in terms of capabilities. If you need those features, bring in another piece of software to supplement it, like Mumble
(DIR) Post #1768020 by wowaname@anime.website
2018-12-06T11:40:04.784528Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jakob @sir @jalcine @the_gayest_doggo @f0x whether the ircv3 spec is good or not doesnt account for the fact that irc has a stubborn culture surrounding it. two very big irc networks still lack nickname registration services and most "modern" irc additions because they're happy with their own thing and don't want anything to change. ircv3 is going to be poorly adopted; anyone who's been on irc for any good length of time knows this
(DIR) Post #1768076 by wowaname@anime.website
2018-12-06T11:42:43.436854Z
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@jakob @sir @jalcine @the_gayest_doggo @f0x >my mentality is that a chat protocol shouldn't be a monolith in terms of capabilities.i'm careful about this too and i dont know what would be the best balance for that. honestly i lean toward having one handle for that, but im happy with anything that works well and seamlessly in practice. im just thinking about stuff like phone numbers being used for both voice and text>If you need those features, bring in another piece of software to supplement it, like Mumblemumble's alright for group voice but for one-on-one it's kinda much. also there's no decent foss solution for video yet
(DIR) Post #1769049 by sir@cmpwn.com
2018-12-06T12:36:34Z
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@wowaname @jakob @f0x @the_gayest_doggo @jalcine I like jitsi for video
(DIR) Post #1769175 by f0x@social.lain.haus
2018-12-06T12:44:33.346385Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@wowaname Jitsi works pretty good, for both voice and video. It's also integrated nicely in Riot, the most popular matrix client.I think it's nice to have messages be just json, for files etc they can just link to the media repo (like matrix does)
(DIR) Post #1769176 by wowaname@anime.website
2018-12-06T12:46:17.862027Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@f0x is jitsi its own thing? i thought it was part of xmpp (using the jingle extension or w/e) but their site makes it look like something else
(DIR) Post #1769180 by jakob@mastodon.sdf.org
2018-12-06T12:45:57Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@wowaname @f0x @the_gayest_doggo @jalcine @sir I'm hopeful that new big networks will come onto the scene in response to the current big networks not adopting IRCv3, but you do raise a good point on adoption of newer versions of these chat specs
(DIR) Post #1769285 by sr_rolando@octodon.social
2018-12-06T12:54:57Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir But?
(DIR) Post #1769332 by f0x@social.lain.haus
2018-12-06T12:58:08.086924Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@wowaname yesh it's standalone, but integrates well with matrix for example.
(DIR) Post #1769337 by wowaname@anime.website
2018-12-06T12:58:28.833785Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@f0x i'll look into it again
(DIR) Post #1769410 by alphakamp@pleroma.kamp.site
2018-12-06T13:01:02.297332Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@wowaname See jitsi meet, I was planing on deploying my own server, but I have nextcloud talk running now so I may settle on that @f0x Ji
(DIR) Post #1769944 by 361.xj9@social.sunshinegardens.org
2018-12-06T13:29:04.420457Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@wowaname @thurloat @sir you mean for large MUCs? true, but idk what alternatives there are to axolotl atm
(DIR) Post #1773621 by xinayder@mastodon.technology
2018-12-06T01:04:14Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@phoe @sir @slp the new ircv3 tags try to bring these features to IRC, while keeping it as it were before. attached is a screenshot of the message-reply IRCv3 tag draft demoed in irccloud.
(DIR) Post #1773622 by sir@cmpwn.com
2018-12-06T16:20:01Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@xinayder @phoe @slp oh god please don't thread IRC
(DIR) Post #1774061 by bshah@fosstodon.org
2018-12-06T16:41:05Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir @xinayder @phoe @slp Also no emoji reactions pls
(DIR) Post #1774410 by the_gayest_doggo@whomst.dog
2018-12-06T16:53:35Z
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@wowaname @jakob @f0x @jalcine @sir can you elaborate on the flaws of matrix's design? I agree with the irc discourse but I have a different impression of the matrix spec
(DIR) Post #1774411 by wowaname@anime.website
2018-12-06T16:55:23.550386Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@the_gayest_doggo @sir @jalcine @f0x @jakob https://letsalllovela.in/objects/569eff25-db54-4e0d-8a33-2fb84839aa2a
(DIR) Post #1775040 by the_gayest_doggo@whomst.dog
2018-12-06T17:03:15Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wowaname @jakob @f0x @jalcine @sir two of these complaints are opinions about the code base and another three are verifiably false.Security audit: https://matrix.org/blog/2016/11/21/matrixs-olm-end-to-end-encryption-security-assessment-released-and-implemented-cross-platform-on-riot-at-last/I am able to moderate rooms just fine, I have been able to boot users, set themes, and control the use or non use of encryption.Attached is a screenshot of the UI allowing me to group rooms by priority.
(DIR) Post #1775041 by wowaname@anime.website
2018-12-06T17:13:24.698203Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@the_gayest_doggo @sir @jalcine @f0x @jakob ive never attempted to run synapse because i hear nothing but complaints about mem usage and whatever else, i used riot for android and had quite a few complaints about it (dont remember and dont care enough to reinstall it and find out), authentication methods feel like a mess, joining large channels is slow as hell, double-ratchet isnt scalable (but as @xj9 said, there's no suitable replacement on the horizon for that), and both the c2s and s2s implementations dont need to be https/json, especially if they are expected to be signed and contain binary information – im uncomfortable with this recent theme of pigeonholing all new protocols to fit into RESTful http terms
(DIR) Post #1775097 by sir@cmpwn.com
2018-12-06T17:15:17Z
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@wysteria @phoe @moderator @slp missing the conversation doesn't make it hard to work. If your input is needed on something then someone will ping you when you're online. Obsessively reading the entire backlog is nuts
(DIR) Post #1775141 by fence@miniwa.moe
2018-12-06T17:17:00.153198Z
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@thurloat @xj9 @sir no send smoke signals
(DIR) Post #1775189 by 361.xj9@social.sunshinegardens.org
2018-12-06T17:18:38.305245Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@wowaname @the_gayest_doggo @sir @jalcine @f0x @jakob i super regret using synapse for family chat server b/c now i'm stuck with it for the foreseeable future. getting everyone into chat was too difficult to repeat for a long while.compared to ejabberd or prosody synapse is VERY resource intensive for something that is presumably doing the same job.matrix ux intentionally makes using alternate homeservers confusing for average user. pretty stupid of them imo. its not like fedi or email users are unable to sign in because you ask them what server they are on.
(DIR) Post #1775244 by 361.xj9@social.sunshinegardens.org
2018-12-06T17:21:02.086418Z
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@fence @thurloat @sir e2ee smoke signal protocol when?
(DIR) Post #1775259 by sir@cmpwn.com
2018-12-06T17:21:15Z
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@xj9 @wowaname @the_gayest_doggo @jalcine @f0x @jakob should've done IRC
(DIR) Post #1775271 by f0x@social.lain.haus
2018-12-06T17:15:53.206185Z
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@wowaname @the_gayest_doggo @sir @jalcine @jakob @xj9 I run synapse just fine.Riot android is a bit clunky but works (much much better than android xmpp or irc)Authentication is just user/password?I think there's a pretty big double-ratchet testing room which works just fineMatrix transport doesn't *need* to be http/json, it's just the current implementation
(DIR) Post #1775272 by wowaname@anime.website
2018-12-06T17:22:20.877585Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@f0x @the_gayest_doggo @sir @jalcine @jakob @xj9 >I run synapse just fine.thanks for the anecdote, ive heard my own share of people hating everything about synapse setup and runtime, and that's done well to discourage me from wasting my time on it. plus it's written in python and that doesn't speak well for performance either. all the other server implementations are alpha quality and i dont want to run alpha software in production; there's bound to be just as many issues with that>Riot android is a bit clunky but works (much much better than android xmpp or irc)your opinion>Authentication is just user/password?what's the deal with homeserver vs identity server then?>Matrix transport doesn't *need* to be http/json, it's just the current implementationwhat is this supposed to mean? it's just as much a part of the de facto protocol at this point, and nobody's going to bother changing to anything else, so you might as well say by changing the transport you're changing the entire protocol
(DIR) Post #1775273 by 361.xj9@social.sunshinegardens.org
2018-12-06T17:22:26.002358Z
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@sir @jakob @f0x @jalcine @the_gayest_doggo @wowaname as soon as IRC supports stickers
(DIR) Post #1775294 by sir@cmpwn.com
2018-12-06T17:22:59Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@xj9 @jakob @f0x @jalcine @the_gayest_doggo @wowaname screw stickers
(DIR) Post #1775334 by 361.xj9@social.sunshinegardens.org
2018-12-06T17:25:01.619950Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir @wowaname @the_gayest_doggo @jalcine @f0x @jakob stickers are the most important feature after e2ee MUC
(DIR) Post #1775337 by sir@cmpwn.com
2018-12-06T17:24:54Z
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@wysteria @phoe @moderator @slp a backlog doesn't really help lurkers. It's not lurking if you just read 10 lines of backlog and start talking. Lurking involves sitting there and watching the chat for a while.
(DIR) Post #1775417 by sir@cmpwn.com
2018-12-06T17:27:33Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@xj9 @wowaname @the_gayest_doggo @jalcine @f0x @jakob stickers and whoever invented them should be burned at stake in the town square
(DIR) Post #1775470 by xinayder@mastodon.technology
2018-12-06T17:29:12Z
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@sir @phoe @slp it's up to the client to display replies to a specific message. I just hope that this kind of "modernization" doesn't impact the true essence of IRC.
(DIR) Post #1775622 by 361.xj9@social.sunshinegardens.org
2018-12-06T17:35:31.862421Z
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@sir @jakob @f0x @jalcine @the_gayest_doggo @wowaname kill them and they will become more powerful than you could possibly imagine
(DIR) Post #1776009 by the_gayest_doggo@whomst.dog
2018-12-06T17:43:29Z
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@xj9 @wowaname @sir @jalcine @f0x @jakob it doesn't do the same thing as jabber tho. It also does encrypted sip.Run ejabberd or prosody with whatever ungodly mess of unmaintained XEPs you need to do jitsi and it will probably take up similar resources, and even if it doesn't matrix is still going to be more reliable in feature set between servers.
(DIR) Post #1776010 by the_gayest_doggo@whomst.dog
2018-12-06T17:44:30Z
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@xj9 @wowaname @sir @jalcine @f0x @jakob hot take: the xmpp ecosystem is garbage and you can't count on being able to do extremely basic things like... Send pictures to users on another server.
(DIR) Post #1776011 by wowaname@anime.website
2018-12-06T17:46:39.543601Z
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@the_gayest_doggo @jakob @f0x @jalcine @sir @xj9 dont tag me in this, i spoke out against xmpp (although i do use it for one-on-one instant messaging simply because it's the least problematic protocol for that purpose that i have the ability to adapt at the moment)
(DIR) Post #1776054 by 361.xj9@social.sunshinegardens.org
2018-12-06T17:48:08.476081Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@the_gayest_doggo @jakob @f0x @jalcine @sir @wowanamesunshinegardens_org_system_medi…
(DIR) Post #1776076 by hj@shigusegubu.club
2018-12-06T17:48:33.823610Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@xj9 @the_gayest_doggo @jakob @f0x @jalcine @sir @wowaname :kokoko: :kokoko: :kokoko: :kokoko: :kokoko: :kokoko: :kokoko: :kokoko: :kokoko: :kokoko: :kokoko: :kokoko: :kokoko: :kokoko: :kokoko: :kokoko: :kokoko: :kokoko:
(DIR) Post #1776208 by the_gayest_doggo@whomst.dog
2018-12-06T17:51:45Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@xj9 @jakob @f0x @jalcine @sir @wowaname Proof: matrix doesn't require admins who dont give a shit to include and activate random plugins for basic chat functionality
(DIR) Post #1776209 by wowaname@anime.website
2018-12-06T17:53:29.287355Z
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@the_gayest_doggo @sir @jalcine @f0x @jakob @xj9 i thought the main argument here was resource usage
(DIR) Post #1776231 by 361.xj9@social.sunshinegardens.org
2018-12-06T17:54:29.571886Z
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@the_gayest_doggo @jalcine @f0x @jakob wrong proof. prove that a properly configured xmpp server is as heavy as synapse for the same use-caseshttps://compliance.conversations.im/server/sunshinegardens.org/
(DIR) Post #1776508 by the_gayest_doggo@whomst.dog
2018-12-06T18:03:39Z
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@wowaname @jakob @f0x @jalcine @sir @xj9 no I'm definitely going for the inconsistent feature set problem.Personally I found prosody leagues more complicated to install and set up than synapse; but in the end my biggest gripe with xmpp is that you can't rely on being able to do normal chat things like send a meme or encrypt communication (OTR is ass admit it).
(DIR) Post #1776509 by wowaname@anime.website
2018-12-06T18:05:01.175392Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@the_gayest_doggo @xj9 @sir @jalcine @f0x @jakob nobody uses OTR anymore though? we've all switched to OMEMO now
(DIR) Post #1776516 by wowaname@anime.website
2018-12-06T18:05:22.213392Z
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@the_gayest_doggo @xj9 @sir @jalcine @f0x @jakob untag me from this now, i dont want to take part in this conversation anymore
(DIR) Post #1776529 by the_gayest_doggo@whomst.dog
2018-12-06T18:05:31Z
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@wowaname @jakob @f0x @jalcine @sir @xj9 ah yes, omemo and the two clients that support it.
(DIR) Post #1776530 by wowaname@anime.website
2018-12-06T18:06:26.685887Z
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@the_gayest_doggo @xj9 @sir @jalcine @f0x @jakob it's one thing to have opinions, it's another to be completely wrong. https://omemo.top/i'm actually done with this conversation now
(DIR) Post #1916029 by dek@niu.moe
2018-12-11T19:53:26Z
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@sir also don't use i3 to send emailsyour line breaking looks retarded
(DIR) Post #1916557 by chartier@toot.cafe
2018-12-11T20:21:52Z
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@sir @sean Wait, why not?
(DIR) Post #1916837 by lugh@hyenas.space
2018-12-11T20:35:26Z
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@sir gods that’s why I was so not into networking with noisebridge in sfAt the time they did everything through slack like wtf
(DIR) Post #1916871 by Wolf480pl@niu.moe
2018-12-11T20:37:30Z
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@dek @sir I don't think he uses i3 anymore, he's got sway...Besides, is there any difference between i3+mutt and eg. Gnome+mutt?
(DIR) Post #1917045 by dek@niu.moe
2018-12-11T20:45:15Z
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@Wolf480pl @sir whatever he's using, the emails look like they're written by someone that doesn't understand paragraphs
(DIR) Post #1917050 by waterbear@scicomm.xyz
2018-12-11T20:45:16Z
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@sir but that begs the question: what should you use instead?
(DIR) Post #1917070 by Wolf480pl@niu.moe
2018-12-11T20:46:49Z
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@dek 1 newline for wrapping, 2 newlines for paragraph... from what I've seen so far @sir has no problem sticking to that....
(DIR) Post #1917124 by dek@niu.moe
2018-12-11T20:48:56Z
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@Wolf480pl @sir > wrappingthere's the pointthis is subjective and chosen by YOU
(DIR) Post #1917145 by dek@niu.moe
2018-12-11T20:49:37Z
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@Wolf480pl @sir we in the real world have wide screen monitors, with tabbings
(DIR) Post #1917217 by Wolf480pl@niu.moe
2018-12-11T20:52:50Z
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@dek @sir Ok, so your client should rewrap the text that's wrapped, and leave the unwrapped text (links, code, etc) unwrapped.Markdown does something similar, modulo detection of intentionally unwrapped text.Have you ever read any mailing list guidelines, you would've known that if the sender doesn't wrap the text, the recipient has no way to tell whether a particular line should be wrapped or not.If you send links, patches, etc. over email, the difference is crucial.
(DIR) Post #1917228 by dek@niu.moe
2018-12-11T20:53:18Z
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@Wolf480pl @sir > Have you ever read any mailing list guidelinesthis is also subjectivewe're not in the 90s anymroe
(DIR) Post #1917235 by Wolf480pl@niu.moe
2018-12-11T20:53:41Z
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@dek @sir >we're not in the 90s anymroethat's also subjective.
(DIR) Post #1917262 by dek@niu.moe
2018-12-11T20:54:53Z
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@Wolf480pl @sir let the client do the wrapping - it should be the one to do it based on window size / desktop resolutionapplying arbitrary line breaks for your own convenience is personally insulting
(DIR) Post #1917266 by Wolf480pl@niu.moe
2018-12-11T20:55:02Z
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@dek Well, it is. But on @sir 's mailing list, he is free to set his subjective rules, and expect everyone to respect them.
(DIR) Post #1917275 by dek@niu.moe
2018-12-11T20:55:19Z
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@Wolf480pl @sir and I'm free to think it's retarded
(DIR) Post #1917333 by dek@niu.moe
2018-12-11T20:57:54Z
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@Wolf480pl @sir don't mind me tbh, I'm just angry at some other things and this is an easy vent
(DIR) Post #1917374 by sir@cmpwn.com
2018-12-11T20:58:49Z
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@dek emails are written in plaintext and hard wrapped at 72 columnsDoing anything else is objectively wrong
(DIR) Post #1917390 by dek@niu.moe
2018-12-11T20:59:31Z
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@sir falsethis is a subjective pointyou might want to take a class in logic
(DIR) Post #1917458 by Wolf480pl@niu.moe
2018-12-11T21:03:55Z
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@dek As I've said before, some lines (particularly: links and inline code) should not be wrapped, even by the client, even if only for display purposes.The established way of indicating that to the recipient's client is by wrapping all lines that should be wrapped.Feel free to come up with a different standard accomplishing the same goals.
(DIR) Post #1917477 by dek@niu.moe
2018-12-11T21:04:39Z
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@Wolf480pl don't add line breaks unless it's a paragraphthis is the consensus.
(DIR) Post #1917479 by dek@niu.moe
2018-12-11T21:04:49Z
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@Wolf480pl in the English language
(DIR) Post #1917487 by Wolf480pl@niu.moe
2018-12-11T21:05:08Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@dek If you use my friend as an easy vent target / punching bag, then fuck you.
(DIR) Post #1917498 by sir@cmpwn.com
2018-12-11T21:05:20Z
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@dek actually it's nothttps://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2822#section-2.1.1
(DIR) Post #1917499 by dek@niu.moe
2018-12-11T21:05:23Z
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@Wolf480pl :)I realized after the fact
(DIR) Post #1917505 by dek@niu.moe
2018-12-11T21:05:44Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir opinions are subjectivewell done at proving nothign
(DIR) Post #1917509 by Wolf480pl@niu.moe
2018-12-11T21:05:57Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@dek @sir standards =/= opinions
(DIR) Post #1917520 by dek@niu.moe
2018-12-11T21:06:06Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Wolf480pl @sir yeah they arejust agreed on
(DIR) Post #1917522 by wowaname@anime.website
2018-12-11T21:06:12.358832Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Wolf480pl @dek it isnt like sircmpwn doesnt have this shit coming for him, as outwardly opinionated as he is
(DIR) Post #1917536 by wowaname@anime.website
2018-12-11T21:06:53.443725Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Wolf480pl @dek as hostile as he is to opposing opinions*
(DIR) Post #1917539 by sir@cmpwn.com
2018-12-11T21:06:45Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@dek @Wolf480pl I think we can all agree that your face looks funny
(DIR) Post #1917554 by dek@niu.moe
2018-12-11T21:07:41Z
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@sir @Wolf480pl I've got no beef with you personally Drew, I like what you're doingand if you saw me actually you might not think so! ^_^
(DIR) Post #1917567 by dek@niu.moe
2018-12-11T21:08:31Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@wowaname @Wolf480pl opinions are like assholes..
(DIR) Post #1917591 by Wolf480pl@niu.moe
2018-12-11T21:10:06Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@wowaname @dek Well yeah, it's like...He posts an opinion on fedi.You know he can have strong reasonable arguments behind his opinions, because he often presents them on his blog.You hope for an interesting discussion.And then you get an argument like "I like Go". Or "Your face looks funny".Disappointing AF.
(DIR) Post #1917616 by wowaname@anime.website
2018-12-11T21:11:32.479857Z
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@Wolf480pl @dek most if not all of the arguments ive had with him ended up with us locking horns and not getting anywhere. that, and he tries to impose his own beliefs onto me in an attempt to influence what i say on my own timeline. i had enough of that a while ago so i dont talk to him anymore
(DIR) Post #1917672 by dek@niu.moe
2018-12-11T21:13:48Z
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@Wolf480pl @wowaname I respect his competencies, but I call bullshit when I see it - otherwise you end up with "cults of personality" also this looks stupid - we, the public can decide our own viewing
(DIR) Post #1917724 by wowaname@anime.website
2018-12-11T21:17:02.057534Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@dek @Wolf480pl pure plaintext just isn't natural in digital media. that said, in plaintext, i generally wrap my text to 72 characters
(DIR) Post #1917731 by dek@niu.moe
2018-12-11T21:17:56Z
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@wowaname @Wolf480pl I don't mind pure plaintext, but at least don't impose a column width - choose your ownah fuck this is nonsense
(DIR) Post #1917739 by dek@niu.moe
2018-12-11T21:18:15Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@wowaname @Wolf480pl good night
(DIR) Post #1917773 by p@freespeechextremist.com
2018-12-11T21:20:37.725387Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@sir $ ed https://cmpwn.com/users/sir/statuses/10119031671140914750/FOR/,$c[FIXD].wq38
(DIR) Post #1917868 by p@freespeechextremist.com
2018-12-11T21:25:13.214050Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@vanecx @jakob @jalcine @sir User error can be remedied. Discourse cannot.
(DIR) Post #1929186 by will@mamot.fr
2018-12-12T10:08:18Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir just don't use slack
(DIR) Post #2293938 by FssOfDeath@mastodon.club
2018-12-26T02:03:50Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir newbie question and I feel I know the answer-ish. Why?Don't get me wrong I am not attached to the platform in any way anymore, I'm just wondering. Is their privacy policy that shitty?
(DIR) Post #2293940 by sir@cmpwn.com
2018-12-26T03:11:55Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@FssOfDeath https://drewdevault.com/2015/11/01/Please-stop-using-slack.html
(DIR) Post #2576458 by bortzmeyer@mastodon.gougere.fr
2019-01-03T09:20:56Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@sir And don't say FOSS when "free software" works perfectly (except for peoploe who are scared of freedom).
(DIR) Post #2588869 by sir@cmpwn.com
2019-01-03T13:00:49Z
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@bortzmeyer arguing about terminology distracts people from real problems
(DIR) Post #2590169 by bortzmeyer@mastodon.gougere.fr
2019-01-03T13:25:33Z
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@sir I disagree. Words are important. They don't decide the toughts but they nevertheless shape them.
(DIR) Post #2590290 by sir@cmpwn.com
2019-01-03T13:28:36Z
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@bortzmeyer the definitions of free software and open source software are for all intents and purposes identical. Arguing about them is a waste of time and makes us look bad. There _is_ an important distinction between FOSS and copyleft, but that's a separate matter.