Post AvYoCysdEejoOr2Pp2 by davidrevoy@framapiaf.org
(DIR) More posts by davidrevoy@framapiaf.org
(DIR) Post #AvYdtqP5Wm1v4CSIIy by Juankprada@mstdn.jp
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Once again I find myself in the position of having to search for a new distro. One that will make it a priority to use XLibre when X11 is deprecated for good. Do I like the XLibre project and his maintainer. Not particularly. But I am one of the, apparently, rare cases in which Wayland is not an option. So when major distros drop support to X11 my work setting will be pretty much broken. And I’m sure as hell Debian will also drop support for it in future releases (if not 13, 14 will be)
(DIR) Post #AvYoCysdEejoOr2Pp2 by davidrevoy@framapiaf.org
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@Juankprada I'm surprised you're considering XLibre, both technically and ethically, but it's your choice.Debian sounds like a pretty solid choice: 12 ends in June 2026 after three years of life, and has a 'security' and 'LTS' commercial option to run until June 2033. It will still give you a year of free X11 support in any case.If X11 is part of Debian 13, which sounds really plausible, you'll get three more years... Probably enough for Wayland to solve the issues (if you reported them).
(DIR) Post #AvYtL9dTd73NqSfMUi by Juankprada@mstdn.jp
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@davidrevoy I really don’t find technical issues with what Xlibre is doing. I reviewed the changes in their latest release and tried out te code successfully with an Arch Linux install. Regarding the ethics, well I don’t agree with the Xlibre project leader in many, many things. But this is common with many other projects that both think different to what I believe both technically, ethically and politically (Debian, and Fedora project included) (1/4)
(DIR) Post #AvYtLDcCpmPiBg6P4K by Juankprada@mstdn.jp
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The biggest issue I have is not really Wayland. Wayland is just a protocol meaning that every desktop environment will need to implement it to have a “Wayland implementation”. As you may know this means the every implementation is desktop dependent and so every one is maintained separately. (2/4)
(DIR) Post #AvYtLHEbNTuRPd5bpg by Juankprada@mstdn.jp
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Gnome and Kde will be fine for sure, maybe even XFCE. But smaller window managers will suffer. I use DWM or Xmonad and I doubt they will ever be ported to Wayland. I could use Sway or Hyperland (yet another troublesome project owner it seems) but still I would not benefit from things like gsetwacom or ktabletconfig. Quite likely I may not benefit either from the Color Management implementations done by every DE, and xiccd is out of the question as it is X11 dependent. (3/4)
(DIR) Post #AvYtLHp7Bj7HEsAlkG by Juankprada@mstdn.jp
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So I’ll have to change my workflow to adapt to either gnome or kde and I would very much like to keep my over-the-year-perfected workflow running 🥹🥹Sorry for the long reply 🙇 (4/4)
(DIR) Post #AvYtgqnwKBb9oOuD2G by Popolon@snac2.popolon.org
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Both Debian and Arch Linux have X11. I'm stuck to it because I use XFCE desktop, most options I use on it are not available on other DE, and it's still not compatible to Wayland. I personally hope to move to Wayland, as soon XFCE support it. I don't understand the opposition to Wayland.
(DIR) Post #AvYtgrIQUpz7KxAYYS by Juankprada@mstdn.jp
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@Popolon I stay away from Arch as I really need a stable environment. I’ve been using Debian the last couple of years successfully though. Regarding Wayland, I don’t have a problem with it except that it does not support everything I need. And quite likely it will never support the things I want. (1/2)
(DIR) Post #AvYtgsMMXgjAdS1DKS by Juankprada@mstdn.jp
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So what I mean is Wayland is fine. I don’t care about it, nor do I want to stop its development. I just wish the alternatives are not set to rot in oblivion as there are still many who need it (2/2)
(DIR) Post #AvZBvY4U3Ro9EMnn3g by mangeurdenuage@shitposter.world
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@davidrevoy @Juankprada >and ethicallyThere is nothing wrong to ask for the violence to stop imo. The atomisation of free/libre software communities caused by the 2012 counter intelligence of the protest on wallstreet has to cease.And by violence I'm using it as NVC does.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McyZh8bsT7U&list=PLuJ0IoLOWU82o37YkPvfPlJiUrSJ7uupCAs for debian I was told that they have been releasing ISO with proprietary code now so it's worrying.I would suggest people to explore the approved FSF distros, if curious, or if they care about fully free/libre distrosThat aside some people are testing/experimenting on Devuan https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=56247
(DIR) Post #AvZBvYuavhUXpzBPHc by Juankprada@mstdn.jp
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@mangeurdenuage @davidrevoy Thanks for the suggestion. I am more than willing to try a FSF endorsed distro. The main issue is my hardware. Both my wifi card and graphic card are a useless without proprietary drivers/firmware 😕😕Devuan is definitely n my radar. My concern is my dependence to systemd (lots of scripts and configs I have are systemd dependent) but this is something I can definitely work on!
(DIR) Post #AvZCDlPRCeOvoIHxxo by strlcat@strl.cat
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@Juankprada same as me, I just don't want to leave fvwm2 with over ten years of config working absolutely perfectly for me.The only difference is that I think both KDE and GNOME are not acceptable (and never will) for me because of hyperbloat and lack of configuration stability. I'm speaking from perspective of trying KDE for a year.
(DIR) Post #AvZCDlpJeR6L6YOdIe by Juankprada@mstdn.jp
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@strlcat I am actually willing to move to some other WM. But I’m concerned that the options to fully have a customized environment are being reduced. Yes you can run things like Hyperland and Sway but what things are you actually missing if you do?
(DIR) Post #AvZDiv9X7vg2xbGp5E by mangeurdenuage@shitposter.world
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@Juankprada @davidrevoy People are trying to get manufacturer to open some of their drivers for wifi cards.https://freewifi.missionlibre.org/>but this is something I can definitely work on!Do your best.
(DIR) Post #AvZDiwNkYYdwlyvgsi by Juankprada@mstdn.jp
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@mangeurdenuage @davidrevoy Thanks 🙏
(DIR) Post #AvZOSoOvYpocsmzZNA by davidrevoy@framapiaf.org
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@Juankprada I understand better, thank you for the details. I hope you'll find a distro that will allow you to preserve your digital habits and comfort.
(DIR) Post #AvZRWrBBTN4gWKBTLE by Juankprada@mstdn.jp
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@davidrevoy Well, is not so much about comfort and habits. (and please allow me to ask as I may be taking this the wrong way, but was it sarcasm?) but about being productive and using the software I consider the best for the task. (No I don’t think X11 is the best but most of the software that run only on it is)
(DIR) Post #AvZTyVQs7Y7x5dpl7Q by davidrevoy@framapiaf.org
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@Juankprada No no, not sarcasm, (when I do, I add the /s at the end of the sentence). I understand really that smaller X11 window managers brings many feature, and I understand your workflow is adapted to that. That's why I used 'habit' and 'comfort'. As a former user of Awesome WM on Arch, with my own configuration that was really super adapted to my need at that time, I think I can understand.
(DIR) Post #AvZU6trRBELtAcGJii by Juankprada@mstdn.jp
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@davidrevoy Understood! Thank you! And I’ll take into account the flag for sarcasm next time 😅. Sorry for taking it so defensively 🙇♂️
(DIR) Post #AvZUDu3Ur5sDnhF4ls by davidrevoy@framapiaf.org
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@Juankprada No problem 💜
(DIR) Post #AvZlFQhceqSgZ3KAwS by lincoln@social.dragynfruit.com
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@Juankprada@mstdn.jp Not sure about xmonad, but dwl is something of a dwm successor.While some WMs probably won't make it to Wayland, building a new Wayland compositor is a lot easier than it is to build a new X11 window manager.Still some definite issues though (e.g. Plasma just doesn't have hotkeys anymore AAAAAAAAA)
(DIR) Post #AvZlFRKcJreaVzZJiq by Juankprada@mstdn.jp
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@lincoln Right. I’m not against changing window managers. But there are tools that will not work correctly there I presume (maybe I’m wrong). For example color management is desktop environment dependent, and it seems Wacom drivers is the same as there is a specific tool for kde and One for gnome. But nothing available outside these environments.
(DIR) Post #AvaAcyrSJwlw1IFazY by strlcat@strl.cat
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@Juankprada all those recent trends to deliberately ignoring power user's requirements in Linux truly infuriates me.
(DIR) Post #AvaAczzI8IdNVsvMqO by Juankprada@mstdn.jp
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@strlcat I really don’t get what’s the point of all this. I mean Wayland is been in development for 16 years already and is still not feature complete. One can just wonder if all that effort could have been better put into making X11 better/rewriting it from scratch. Why the need to break things constantly!!