      F I D O N E W S         Volume 18, Number 13             26 Mar 2001
     +--------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
     |  The newsletter of the   |Fido, Fidonet and dog-with-diskette are  |
     |    FidoNet community     | Registered Trademarks of Tom Jennings   |
     |    Copyright through     |    San Francisco, California, USA       |
     |          2007            |   Crash Netmail Attach Articled To:     |
     |          _               |  fido news@1:2320/38 (1-502-245-6778)   |
     |         /  \             |           for Telnet and Bink:          |             |
     |        /|oo \            |           Fidonews@1:2320/100           |
     |       (_|  /_)           |        Filegate.net or 64.38.85.9       |                                          |
     |        _`@/_ \    _      |                                         |
     |       |     | \   \\     |           Editor: Warren Bonner         |
     |       | (*) |  \   ))    |           editor@fidonews.org           |
     |       |__U__| /  \//     |           wdbonner@pacbell.net          |
     |        _//|| _\   /      |                                         |
     |       (_/(_|(____/       |                                         |
     |             (jm)         |   Newspapers should have no friends.    |
     |                          |                    -- JOSEPH PULITZER   |
     +--------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
       Copyright 2001 by Editor Warren D. Bonner for Fidonews Globally.


                        Table of Contents
     1. HEADLINE  .................................................  1
        =+= Header =+=  ...........................................  1
     2. CHAT WITH THE EDITOR  .....................................  2
        <+< Chat With Editor >+>  .................................  2
     3. THOUGHTS  .................................................  4
        //+\ THOUGHTS & DREAMS /+\\  ..............................  4
     4. LETTERS  ..................................................  5
     5. ARTICLES  .................................................  9
        -+=+ NOBILITY? +=+-  ......................................  9
     6. FRANK'S COLUMN  ........................................... 14
        === FRANK'S COLUMN ===  ................................... 14
     7. CHATTER  .................................................. 16
     8. RECIPES  .................................................. 17
        -=+ Special French Onion +=-  ............................. 17
     9. POET'S CORNER  ............................................ 19
        <<< POETRY KORNER >>>  .................................... 19
     10. HUMOR  ................................................... 21
        //+\ LAUGHS A PLENTY /+\\  ................................ 21
     11. ADVERTISE YOUR FREE SERVICE/EVENT  ....................... 23
        -+-+-+ Ads of some Question +-+-+-  ....................... 23
     12. ANSWERS OF THE WEEK  ..................................... 24
        -=+ PHONE Q & A +=-  ...................................... 24
     13. NOTICES  ................................................. 25
     14. FIDONET BY INTERNET  ..................................... 28
     15. FIDONEWS INFORMATION  .................................... 33
     FIDONEWS 18-13               Page 1                   26 Mar 2001


     =================================================================
                                 HEADLINE
     =================================================================

     ***From the IC/Z2C:****QUOTE Netmail 3-23-01*********************
                             Please Note
     Colleagues,

     R35's segment in zone-2 (Bulgaria) hasn't been updated for 3 years
     now.

     As I'm cleaning-out the nodelist I'd like to find out if anyone
     anywhere has a working link into R35 here which would prompt me to
     another solution than removing the whole region from the nodelist.

     Regions may gradually die from lack of nodes but not when they're 90
     remaining.

     Anyone? Please?

       \x/@rd Dossche
         2:292/854 (wd@skynet.be)


     -----------------------------------------------------------------

     FIDONEWS 18-13               Page 2                   26 Mar 2001


     =================================================================
                           CHAT WITH THE EDITOR
     =================================================================

     ----------------------------------------------------------------------
     (2)     Sat 24 Mar 01 10:00a
     By: Warren Bonner (1:103/401) via 1/23, Interim Fidonews Editor
     To: Ward Dossche (2:292/854) via 1/2, Europe Gate
     ----------------------------------------------------------------------
     Hello Ward!
     Thank you for using Fidonet in your endeavor to wake up lazy
     nodes to take a little responsibility for their own good.

     It would really be nice to have notices and other articles from
     you once in a while, maybe `once a month paragraph' from the IC.

     I would be happy to create a section in Makenews to create a new
     "From the IC's Corner", (or what ever caption you choose), to
     bring our entire world net into a closer relationship where our
     brotherhood flourish in finding each other's respect rather
     than nit picking our differences.

     This submission you send today is an excellent example of reaching
     out to make the connections necessary to heal rips in the fabric
     of our beloved Fidonet. We all must work a little harder.

     Again, thank you very much Ward.

     Ol'wdb

                    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
     This is an important request, thus I listed it in two places in
     the Snooze this week, to catch the eye of those who rapidly
     scroll past the Index and Header to the first Column.  Please
     forgive the redundancy.

                     ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

     *From the International Coordinator

      > Warren,
      >
      > Can something of this nature appear in Fidonews please? I'm
      > fearing we're losing this region but I'd like to take every
      > precaution before removing it as it's more or less 90 entries.
      >
      > Thank you,
      >
      >   \x/@rd Dossche
      >      ZC/2
      >
      > ************************* QUOTE *************************
      >
      > Colleagues,
      >
      > R35's segment in zone-2 (Bulgaria) hasn't been updated for 3
     FIDONEWS 18-13               Page 3                   26 Mar 2001


      > years now.
      >
      > As I'm cleaning-out the nodelist I'd like to find out if anyone
      > anywhere has
      > a working link into R35 here which would prompt me to another
      > solution than
      > removing the whole region from the nodelist.
      >
      > Regions may gradually die from lack of nodes but not when
      > they're 90
      > remaining.
      >
      > Anyone? Please?
      >
      >   \x/@rd Dossche
      >     2:292/854 (wd@skynet.be)

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


     By: Thom LaCosta
     To: Warren Bonner
     Re: Trademark Issue
     ----------------------------------------------------------------------
     Warren Bonner wrote in a message to Thom LaCosta:

     WB> Thom, I firmly second the motion!  Don't think we will get even a
          grunt though.

     Thom> I think the answer, or the lack thereof, will give a
     crystal-clear indication of the attitude and position of not only the
     IC, but the ZC group.

     I honestly believe it's time to put "the rubber on the road" to let
     the members of FidoNet know how we are being represented, what agendas
     may be in place, and from that members should have a much clearer
     indication of the nature of our "governing" body.

     As the time with no response increases, so does the heartburn level,
     and good medical practice doesn't embrace sitting by idly whilst the
     acid builds up. It would appear to me that it's time for a remedy.

     Thom baltimoremd@baltimoremd.com http://www.tlchost.net/echolist/ ---
     * Origin: Home of The Other Robot (1:261/1352)

                        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


     -----------------------------------------------------------------

     FIDONEWS 18-13               Page 4                   26 Mar 2001


     =================================================================
                                 THOUGHTS
     =================================================================


     From: "R. B. Crowninshield" <mutha@capeonramp.com>

                           SOMETHING NICE
     There are moments in life when you miss someone so
     much that you just want to pick them from your dreams
     and hug them.

     Dream what you want to dream; go where you want to go;
     be what you want to be, because you have only one life
     and one chance to do all the things you want to do.

     May you have enough happiness to make you sweet,
     enough trials to make you strong, enough sorrow to
     keep you human, enough hope to make you happy.

     Always put yourself in others' shoes. If you feel that
     it hurts you, it probably hurts the other person too.

     The happiest of people don't necessarily have the best
     of everything; they just make the most of everything
     that comes along their way.

     Happiness lies for those who cry, those who hurt,
     those who have searched, and those who tried, for only
     they can appreciate the importance of people who have
     touched their lives.

     Love begins with a smile, grows with a kiss and ends
     with a tear.

     The brightest future will always be based on a
     forgotten past, you can't go on well in life until you
     let go of your past failures and heartaches.

     When you were born, you were crying and everyone
     around you was smiling.

     Live your life so that when you die, you're the one
     who is smiling and everyone around you is crying.

                      ~~~~~~~~~~~~end~~~~~~~~~~~


     -----------------------------------------------------------------

     FIDONEWS 18-13               Page 5                   26 Mar 2001


     =================================================================
                                  LETTERS
     =================================================================

     By: Philip Lozier  To: Malcolm Miles
     ---------------------------------------------------------------------
     Hello Malcom,
     [...]
     PHIL> As to all of this recycled FidoNet vs. Internet stuff... it is
     not a valid comparison in any way...  the old "apples and oranges"
     thing... the internet and FidoNet are two completely different beasts
     altogether... FidoNet is merely a messaging network, nothing more,
     nothing less. It is used either to add content to a BBS, or for
     personal consumption by private nodes and points... some BBSs have
     their themes and plenty of information on particular items that
     interest the SysOps, but again,  hat is not FidoNet either... just
     like the internet and FidoNet, BBSs and FidoNet are two different
     things, although they work hand in hand with each other.    What
     people need to focus on is not how to compete with the internet,  but
     how to promote FidoNet usage both on and off the internet by what  we
     have available to us.    With many FidoNet systems ru shing to get
     their systems available via  telnet, there are likely ways that the
     BBSs themselves could promote  more traffic to themselves... I think
     that if a large number of the  telnet systems would set up to allow
     telneting from their BBS into  other boards, then BBSs could be


     created on as many topics as you can  think of, bringing back the old
     days of "theme boards"... an indexed  listing could be kept on the
     telnet sites that supply information on  various topics, and telnet
     could become, for all intents and purposes,  a BBS web, with the
     various BBSs being the "websites"...    Of course, with the above,
     many SysOps probably wouldn't want to do  that, as the mentality seems
     to be "I just want them on -MY- BBS, why  am I going to let them use
     me as a portal to someone elses?".  Well...  for one thing, it would
     probably improve the quality of BBSs  themselves, as the SysOps would
     have to pay more attention to their  content other than echoes and
     files to keep a user interested,  " generic" BBSs just wouldn't cut
     it... another thing may be that it  might be a way to attract totally
     new BBS users, and ultimately  FidoNet posters, in that for some
     reason, people have always been  attracted to something that seems
     new, or is some kind of  "underground"...    Even without having the
     actual systems calling to and from each other,  I am sure that someone
     could come up with a searc  engine for telnet  sites (search by
     locality, topic, or whatever), that works exactly the  same as any
     engine on the web, and pages could be created and promoted  which
     contain top of the line telnet clients for download, and much
     information about telnet itself, that make it easier than ever for a
     first timer to get involved. A simple telnet list just wouldn't cut
     it.    No, this may not be strictly FidoNet related, but, by getting
     more  people to utilize these telnet BBSs, it does create a way to
     expose  FidoNet to people, and hell, even if the nodelist didn't start
     to grow  rapidly rig ht away, it would sure be nice to see message
     traffic  increase due to BBS callers via telnet... ultimately, it
     would attract  new nodes as more people got involved, and discovered
     that it really  isn't that hard for them to do themselves.    I would
     FIDONEWS 18-13               Page 6                   26 Mar 2001


     also venture so far as to say that if this was a succesful way  of
     reviving BBSs, that we would likely see much higher quality  software
     being produced for all ends of BBSing. Sure, we would  probably see a
     lot less freeware and cardware, but, that's the way it  used to be
     anyway when BBSs were all the rage. There is enough  freeware to get
     anybody started, but I would sure love to see a higher  amount of new
     and improved stuff coming out, even if it was costing a  few bux
     again.    There -IS- a way to revive BBSing, but, it involves people
     working  together towards the goal, and keeping things organized and
     well  maintained, making all of the sites easy to locate, and easy to
     connect to.    It also calls for SysOps to create and provide much
     richer content for  their BBSs... if many of these people can create
     websites with all  that content, why couldn't they do it on their BBS
     So what it will  be just text... it will load faster and likely be
     easier to navigate... myself, I would love to read information I
     that thinks  it's all high important to load it down with time
     consuming images and  graphics... the BBS caller could simply download
     own system. I don't  think the graphics limitations would be a
     deterant any more than the  web is a deterant to people who like to
     read novels or books right  from the printed page.

     Some might view using what is available in order to further preserve
     and promote the hobby that we all love, and put it in a position to be
     around for a long time to come.    We should start coming up with ways
     to utilize telnet to our full  advantage... if what I envision could
     happen, FidoNet and nets like it  would simply be the "newgroups" of
     the BBS web, and once folks  discover it, they will likely apreciate
     it and like it much better  than than those SPAMgroups. What about
     inter-bbs chatting as well?    We can do a lot if everyone would get
     together and stop trying to  figure out how to compete with the
     internet and would rather work on  utilizing what we do have available
     to us to its full advantage. Of  course it could never compete with
     the web itself, but it sure could  boost our traffic a bit.    Just
     another of my penny and a half thoughts that had been brewing  around
     for awhile :)

     Think about it.

     Phil

                    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
     Richard
     Webb <elspider@interl.net> wrote:

     Dear editor:

     Up until 1995 I was active in fidonet, as a node for a little over a
     year but mostly as a point since 1992 or close to it.

     After I took my node down I performed sysop duties on another bbs
     running binkley Maximus, and with some neat little utilities (most of
     which were created by Harvey Parisien) I was able to do a lot of
     maintenance chores by remote, even things which normally couldn't be
     done by logging into Maximus 2.01, such as changing tosser config
     files. In fact, I was able to set us up an areafix program without
     ever having to leave my office <grin>.
     FIDONEWS 18-13               Page 7                   26 Mar 2001


     Like your author of the article on pointing in z2 I often wondered why
     pointing didn't catch on more here in the states.  I could have
     my mailer poll my boss node, freq files and all those other tasks
     while I was either out of my office or in bed asleep. I could get the
     echoes I wanted even if not carried by a bbs in town, no begging for
     higher access status, no calling multiple boards and sitting in front
     of my computer being invited to visit the files section or being paged
     by the user on node 2 that was a kid who was looking for somebody to
     play Doom with.

     When I first started bbsing I discovered offline readers and tried
     playing with Procomm and Telix scripts, but soon after discovered
     Ppoint by Harvey Parisien. Once I downloaded it and got it running I
     was hooked. I could have new echomail and netmail available to me,
     consult emailable search engines through the internet gateway, meet
     new and interesting friends, all without having to leave my chair.
     Better yet, I could do this while taking breaks sitting at my desk and
     not have to worry about whether I was still logged on trying to get
     the file I wanted or read messages when I should be back at work.

     Also, my phone line was free for business calls during business hours,
     and I could enjoy its use during off hours to communicate with friends
     and family. Just before bedtime, tell my system when to poll my boss
     and go happily to bed. Next morning with my first cup of coffee I
     could enjoy lively conversation with people all over the world.

     In fact, now that I've left the old dog behind for the most part, I
     still interact with the internet offline. I use an offline reader for
     internet mail and newsgroups. NO it doesn't do html or binaries well,
     but that lets me miss out on the nasty viruses that seem to attack
     Microsoft products. NO fancy java scripts either, but I really don't
     care. Automated retrieval of usenet and email is there and I can tell
     it to call in my absence just as I could my mailer. Automated ftp is
     available with this system as well. Even better, I can run it on my
     old antiquated 386 with 2 mb ram.

     ON the other side of the fence: WHen I was a node I was mail-only
     part of the time, but then I moved to a small town where there were no
     FIdonet boards.  I set up a board to introduce people to FIdonet.
     Before I'd moved however I'd introduced three people to pointing who
     normally didn't call bbs systems. Out of those three two switched to
     local boards, first as qwk reader users then as points, the third
     called my system about twice a week, though it was a toll call,
     because he enjoyed having access to the echoes he wanted. THere was a
     fully functional areafix program so he could link and unlink from the
     echoes he wanted. He also liked the automated nature of late night
     file requests.

     I think the main reason pointing didn't catch on here is that sysops
     didn't promote it enough.


     Just my $0.02 worth.


     REgards,
     FIDONEWS 18-13               Page 8                   26 Mar 2001


     Richard WEbb
     FOrmer Fidonet 1:290/18 and 1:283/520
     Also formerly 1:290/8.1 and 1:283.525.5


                       ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



     -----------------------------------------------------------------

     FIDONEWS 18-13               Page 9                   26 Mar 2001


     =================================================================
                                 ARTICLES
     =================================================================


     By: Carol Shenkenberger
     To: Michiel van der Vlist
     Re: Re: Moderator Rules as repeatedly requested
     ----------------------------------------------------------------------
     *** Quoting Michiel van der Vlist from a message to Janis Kracht ***

     MvdV> Hello Janis,

      JK> Sometimes it does appear from your messages that you have a
      JK> "thing" about Zone 1 participation and the Snooze,

     MvdV> Ok, maybe it is better to let this out in the open...

     MvdV> It is not just Z1 and the snooze, I  have a thing with some Z1
     sysop in general. Many of them are appear to be hostile and
     insensitive towa members of others cultures.

     Carol> Michiel, it works both ways. You've said many things that make
     it look like you do not happen to be sensitive to the needs of those
     in Z1.  When you and they do not agree on something, your responses
     are pretty much that 'Z1 is doing everything wrong and should look at
     how Z2 is doing it to see the light'. This is a non-functional way to
     present an idea.  It's especially non-functional if you want people to
     agree with you.

     Carol> I recognize english is a second language for you and even
     allowing for that, your expression is pretty negative about Z1 things
     that matter to us.  Intstead of saying 'hey Warren, thanks for having
     rules that Z2 expects, now can we discuss one aspect' your stance was
     'less than positive'.   I could easily have been a positive
     contribution but you chose to focus on one aspect vice the unusual
     actions of a moderator accedding to Z2 stance of EP1 requirement for
     rules, and a first version that was not to your total liking.

     Carol> I think you mean well, and express it in such a manner, that
     you are not well heard.


     MvdV> However when such an area gets linked to the Z1 backbone all
     hell brea loose. There was ZCC_PUBLIC. An area created by Ward to be
     read for al and write for *C's. The idea was that it would be a mirror
     of the ZCC conference for those ZC's not objecting to their messages
     being copied into it. To inform the sysops of what what is going on in
     the ZCC coun This worked fine unitil it hit the Z1 backbone.

     Carol> That echo it the Z1 backbone(s) with no rules and no knowledge
     that it was other than to 'talk to the ZC's' so of course the sysops
     posted there.  If it was supposed to be 'read only' then it should
     have been described in such a manner as to indicate that.  (It may be
     now, but when I joined, it was *not* so described).  Sometimes a
     sysop's crystal ball fails...
     FIDONEWS 18-13               Page 10                  26 Mar 2001


     MvdV> It got even worse when some Bob (Kohl, I believe, but my memory
     may be wrong) seized moderatorship of the echo, claiming he e-listed
     it before

     Carol> Janis is responsible for the previous Z1EC who was fired 2
     years before she came into office?  The elist BTW, isnt a Z1 or even a
     fidonet thing.  Z1 just happens to use a text output from it to
     prevent echoname clashes and figure out who the moderator is if that
     is undecided.

     MvdV> a moderator is the one who starts an echo or the one that is
     appointed by his predecessor or the one that wins a moderator
     election. Thom Lac list is no more than a local custom from our point
     of view.

     Carol> And the fidonews editor position works the same.  They appoint
     their next in line.  This last time there was no clear path so the
     most prolific writer was installed temp, and it seems to have stuck.

     MvdV> bluntly stampede over other's customs, perhaps even without
     realising that they are.

     Carol> Michiel, how many of ours have you stampeded over?  Perhaps
     without even realizing you are?


     Carol> while the contributors to that publication generally are mainly
     from Zone 1.  No one makes it that way,

     MvdV> As I have repeatedly trying to explain, some DO make it that
     way.

     Carol> In just what way?  Note that no one in any other place has
     expressed a problem in submitting an article other than you.  You
     howeverseem to not understand to crash it to his listed host, hence
     the Z1C has had to shift our nodelist segment to divert his ZIN number
     just to make it easy for you.

     Carol> I sincerely hope that will be enough for you, as your demands
     are getting tiresome when only very *minor* nodelist reading skills on
     your part were needed to solve your problem.  IE: Crash his nodelisted
     HOST instead of blindly picking the first adress shown.

     Carol> One last request.  Quit picking on net229. They are doing fine
     for their members and while you may not like R12's style, it's for R12
     sysops to decide how they list.  Thatit functions is all you should be
     concerned with.
                                         xxcarol

                       ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

     By: Janis Kracht
     To: Michiel van der Vlist
     Re: Succesion rules for the editor
     ----------------------------------------------------------------------
     Hi Michiel,
     FIDONEWS 18-13               Page 11                  26 Mar 2001


     >JK> What's wrong with it staying that way forever?

     MV> For one thing there is no way to get rid of an editor not
     performing to satisfaction.

     Janis> Too bad.  You deal with it. If an editor is not performing to
     your satisfaction, he could still be performing to other people's
     satisfaction. You can't make everyone happy.  The position of Fidonews
     editor is not supposed to be held by the winner of a popularity
     contest.

     >JK> I can't think of better person to judge who can handle the job's
     demands better than one who has actually done the job.

     >MvdV> I beg to differ. This is the old mistake of thinking that when
     someone is good> X he is also good at related task Y. But it need not
     be so at all. A good> programmer need not be a good team leader for
     programmers,

     JK> No, but I know that a good programmer can identify another good
     programmer, or a bad one.

     MV> A good driver need not be a good driving instructor and vice
     versa.

     JK> No, but I know that a good driver can recognize another good
     driver, or a bad one.

     MV> A good writer need not be a good editor and a good editor need not
     be good in selecting persons for the task of editor.

     JK> Just like a good driver CAN tell the difference between a good
     driver and a bad driver, an Editor CAN tell the difference between a
     good editor and a bad editor.

     >JK> The job of Fidonews Editor is not like becoming an NC where a
     person presents a 'platform' and is elected based on that platform..
     It's not like any elected position at all.

     MV> No, it isn't. But maybe it should.

     JK> I disagree. You are insinuating that having an election for the
     position of fidonews editor would mean that the person elected editor
     will be good, or fair, or indepedent of politics. I don't think so.
     There is nothing about an election that would make it be so.  Having
     the current Editor select his successor on the other hand, allows him
     or her to make a judgement about the successor.

     >JK> How is the way the fidonews editor is selected going to help us
     to survive, Michiel?

     MV> I do not know. All I can say is that the quality of life should be
     considered> as well. Presently that leaves a few things to be desired.

     JK> If you meant to say that the current method of selecting the
     Editor (where the
     FIDONEWS 18-13               Page 12                  26 Mar 2001


     editor selects his successor) leaves a few things to be desired, well
     I think that the appointment or election of the editor/moderator would
     leave a lot more things to be desired.  The editor then would be in a
     position of not wanting to comment on certain things or not wanting to
     publish certain things for fear of being replaced or removed.
     Favoritism could also come into play.

     MV> Maybe it would be a good idea to separate the task of Editor of
     the snooze and moderator of the fidonews echo. There are conflicts of
     interest and conflicts of requirements here. An editor should seek
     conflicting opinions whereas a moderator should dampen any conflicts
     arising from those differences...

     JK> There is no conflict of interest that I can see... the moderator
     of the echo has made a point of stating that the most important rule
     of the message echo is to "be nice" in replying to posts in the echo.
     Warren has not said that a person has to "be nice" in writing articles
     for Fidonews.  Look as some of the articles that have been published.

     JK> Further, the editor DOES seek and publish opinions in the journal
     Fidonews which may or may not be the same as his own opinion, and
     Warren, as moderator of the Fidonews message echo DOES dampen personal
     conflicts in the echo message base. This is really starting to sound
     like sour grapes to me.

     >JK> Personally, I see letting the editor select his successor as a
     way to keep *C's hands off of Fidonews.

     MV> Having an independent newspaper is a good idea for the real world
     where there is competition and where it is the reader who ultimately
     decides what paper survives and what doesn't. In this case where there
     is no competition, the cur may be worse than the disease.

     JK> Well, fidonet is not a business... our participation in it is a
     hobby.

     MV> The present one does not have any.

     JK> That's right.. There have been editors of Fidonews whose style I
     didn't like.. That didn't mean they should have been replaced just
     because _I_ didn't like the way they did things.

     Take care,
     Janis

     --- BBBS/LiI v4.01 Flag-2
      * Origin: Prism bbs (1:2320/38)

       ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                     Solution to EURO- AMER Lingo.......

     From: "R. B. Crowninshield" <mutha@capeonramp.com>

     Introducing Euro-English phase-in plan for our Z2-Z6 friends
     Date: Saturday, March 24, 2001 2:58 PM

     FIDONEWS 18-13               Page 13                  26 Mar 2001


     The European Commission has just announced an agreement whereby
     English will be the official language of the EU rather than German
     which was the other possibility. As part of the negotiations, Her
     Majesty's Government conceded that English spelling had some room for
     improvement and has accepted a 5 year phase-in plan that would be
     known as "Euro-English".

     In the first year, "s" will replace the soft "c". Sertainly, this will
     make the sivil servants jump with joy. The hard "c" will be dropped in
     favour of the"k". This should klear up konfusion and keyboards kan
     have 1 less letter.

     There will be growing publik enthusiasm in the sekond year, when the
     troublesome "ph" will be replaced with "f". This will make words like
     "fotograf" 20% shorter.

     In the 3rd year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be
     ekspekted to reach the stage where more komplikated changes are
     possible. Governments will enkorage the removal of double letters,
     which have always ben a deterent to akurate speling. Also, al wil agre
     that the horible mes of the silent "e"s in the language is
     disgraseful, and they should go away.

     By the fourth year, peopl wil be reseptiv to steps such as replasing
     "th" with "z" and "w" with "v". During ze fifz year, ze unesesary "o"
     kan be dropd from vords kontaining "ou" and similar changes vud of
     kors be aplid to ozer kombinations of leters.

     After zis fifz yer, ve vil hav a reli sensibl riten styl. Zer vil be
     no mor trubl or difikultis and evrivun vil find it ezi to understand
     ech ozer. Ze drem vil finali kum tru! And zen ve vil tak over ze
     USA an tch dem ta spk proply!

                     ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~





     -----------------------------------------------------------------

     FIDONEWS 18-13               Page 14                  26 Mar 2001


     =================================================================
                              FRANK'S COLUMN
     =================================================================

     by: Frank Vest, Collin County Station (124/6308.1)
     ----------------------------------------------------------------------
                  Thoughts on "Where are we going"
                          By Frank Vest

      If you read last week's article from me, you might be thinking along
     some lines of "Where are we going?", "How can I help?". I'm just going
     to ramble here and let you figure out what you think. :)

      It's been said that Fidonet need to "move forward", "Get into the
     next century", "Quit holding onto the old ways" and much more. All of
     this is directed to help and that's fine. I just wonder what one might
     call "help"?

      Help, like many things, depends on the 'point of view of the
     individual'. What I might call help, you might call me names for. :)
     So, here's some thoughts and such.

                                 The "New Fidonet"

      First, we get a software author to write some programs for Fidonet.
     One program will be a "Fidonet Server" program. All it will do is
     transfer, receive and send files  to and from users, other Fidonet
     Servers and such. Each user can have his/her own account on this
     server as/if allowed by the System Operator.

      Next, we get the software author to write a "Fidonet Browser"
     program. This program will connect to the Fidonet Server via the
     standard Fidonet protocols (Zmodem, ZedZap and such) and allow the
     transfer of files to and from the Fidonet Server. The Fidonet Browser
     will then store and, if/depending on the type of file, display the
     files to the user on the Fidonet Browser screen. IE: if it's a
     picture, some file that gives information or a display menu.

      Of course, there will have to be standards setup in order for
     competition in "Fidonet Server" and "Fidonet Browser" software so that
     one author can't just write a proprietary program and "force" it upon
     all the Fidonet people. and the "Fidonet Browser" software will have
     to be "User friendly" as well as "point and click" so that the general
     public can easily use it. Multiple OS support would be another "plus".

      Also, there would need to be some sort of "game" access so that the
     people that want to play the games can access them as well.  And,
     there would need to be something like a Point program for the Fidonet
     echos to be read/replied to off line.

      Now, just think, with this kind of programing, Fidonet can have most,
     if not all, of what the Internet offers.

                                     Next Step

     Of course, all the above will not do a lot if there are small servers
     FIDONEWS 18-13               Page 15                  26 Mar 2001


     with little in the way of files. So, we need a "Backbone" of file
     echos and message echos. Well, we have that already, so what do we do
     with them? Connect them, of course. Remember that Fidonet is a
     collection of Nodes and Nets just like the Internet. What we don't
     have are the connections. So, we get a few Nets to get together and
     sponsor a few 24/7 lines that can connect these servers together. What
     do we have? Why, the Internet, of course. :)

     Now, you're probably thinking that this Frank guy has flipped... You
     may be right, but some of this is possible. The thought of a new type
     of terminal program that can access files and display them along with
     the graphics has been done. The real problem has been that the BBS
     software to do this was written as proprietary software that required
     a matching terminal program to make it work. A generic set of
     standards which would spawn a generic group of terminal programs would
     make things like this possible.

                             Think on this.

      Set some standards. I really don't care how it is done, just do it.
     Then BBS software authors can/could build these into their BBS
     software. The terminal program authors could build terminal programs
     to match and we are off to "The New Fidonet". It's not impossible, but
     I really can't see it happening in the current politicking and cut
     throat method that Fidonet operates in today. We, Fidonet, would have
     to stop trying to politic each other to the bottom while politicking
     ourselves to the top and actually allow this to happen.

      The first step might be to keep the hobby aspect of Fidonet in mind
     as we go about this hobby we love. It is just a hobby and not a big
     commercial profit machine. If it is treated as a hobby, there just
     might be a chance here.

     Just some thoughts to go with last week;

      Fidonet is behind the Internet due to our hobby and connectivity
     aspect. We have the software already developed to use the Internet to
     connect our hobby together. Note that I said "use the Internet" not
     "become a part of the Internet". With some work from us on keeping the
     "hobby" part in our minds and forgetting the politic and cut throat
     part, we could grow. We are not that much different than the Internet.

     Regards,

     Frank Vest


     http://texoma.net/~flv http://bise.tzo.com/r19

                        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


     -----------------------------------------------------------------

     FIDONEWS 18-13               Page 16                  26 Mar 2001


     =================================================================
                                  CHATTER
     =================================================================

     By: Frank Vest
     To: Jasen Betts
     Re: Mailer on a voice line
     ----------------------------------------------------------------------
     On (23 Mar 01) Jasen Betts wrote to Frank Vest, with MvdV quotes.

     Hello Jasen,

     >FV> Still a kludge and since a Point isn't in the Nodelist, just a
     user.

     JB> Mv>> So? Why MUST the editor be in the nodelist. If he can be
     reached via a pointnumber that is published in FidoNews and his
     bossnode is in the nodelist, that  serves the purpose doesn't it?

     FV> Points are not in the Nodelist and are nothing more than users
     with a mailer. P4 states this. I can't see how a Point can be the
     editor of a publication that s/he isn't a member of.

     JB> Nodes, and Points aren't people. they are addresses. I grant that
     it may be a requirement that the editor has a node address,   but I
     see no reason why the editor can't also have a point address.

     FV>Agreed. There is also no reason that a *C can't have a Point
     address, or several Point addresses. But, would you want your *C to be
     only a Point address? I think not.

     Regards,

     Frank

     http://texoma.net/~flv
     http://bise.tzo.com/r19


                      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



     -----------------------------------------------------------------

     FIDONEWS 18-13               Page 17                  26 Mar 2001


     =================================================================
                                  RECIPES
     =================================================================

     By: MICHAEL LOO
     ----------------------------------------------------------------------
     MMMMM----- Recipe via Meal-Master (tm) v8.01

           Title: Electronic Gourmet's French Onion Soup
      Categories: Soups, Appetizers, Cyberealm
           Yield: 6 servings

       1 1/2 lb Yellow Onions, thinly sliced
                (about 5 cups)
           3 tb Butter
           1 tb Oil
           1 ts Salt
         1/4 ts Sugar
           3 tb Flour
           8 c  Boiling Brown Stock
         1/2 c  Dry White Wine or Vermouth
           3 tb Cognac
                Rounds of Hard Toasted Bread
           2 c  Swiss Cheese, grated

     1) Cook the onions slowly with the butter and oil in a covered
        saucepan for 15 minutes.

     2) Uncover, raise the heat to moderate and stir in the salt and sugar.
        Cook for 30 to 40 minutes stirring frequently until the onions have
        turned and even, deep golden brown.

     3) Sprinkle in the flour and stir 3 minutes.

     4) Off heat, blend in the boiling liquid. Note that instead of brown
        stock you may use canned beef bouillon (same quantity). Or, and
        equal part of boiling water plus stock or bouillon.

     5) Add the wine and season to taste. Simmer partially covered for 30
        to 40 minutes or more, skimming occasionally. Correct Seasoning.

     6) Set aside uncovered until ready to serve, then reheat to simmer.

     7) Just before serving, stir in the cognac. Pour into french onion
        soup bowls over the rounds of bread. Cover with cheese. Bake at 350
        F until cheese melts.

       Typed for you by Peggy and Bruce Travers,Cyberealm BBS Watertown NY
       315-786-1120

     MMMMM
      * Origin: The NeverEnding BBS/Deltona,FL/407-860-7720/bbs.never
                (1:3618/555)

                              ~~~~~~~~~~end~~~~~~~~~~~

     FIDONEWS 18-13               Page 18                  26 Mar 2001


     -----------------------------------------------------------------

     FIDONEWS 18-13               Page 19                  26 Mar 2001


     =================================================================
                               POET'S CORNER
     =================================================================


     From: "R. B. Crowninshield" <mutha@capeonramp.com>

     Since the Pledge of Allegiance and The Lord's Prayer are not allowed
     in most public schools anymore because the word "God" is mentioned....
     a kid in Arizona wrote the attached NEW School prayer. I liked it....

     Now I sit me down in school
     Where praying is against the rule
     For this great nation under God
     Finds mention of Him very odd.
     If Scripture now the class recites,
     It violates the Bill of Rights.
     And anytime my head I bow
     Becomes a Federal matter now.

     Our hair can be purple, orange or green,
     That's no offense; it's a freedom scene.
     The law is specific, the law is precise.
     Prayers spoken aloud are a serious vice.

     For praying in a public hall
     Might offend someone with no faith at all.
     In silence alone we must meditate,
     God's name is prohibited by the state.

     We're allowed to cuss and dress like freaks,
     And pierce our noses, tongues and cheeks.
     They've outlawed guns, but FIRST the Bible.
     To quote the Good Book makes me liable.

     We can elect a pregnant Senior Queen,
     And the 'unwed daddy,' our Senior King
     It's "inappropriate" to teach right from wrong,
     We're taught that such "judgments" do not belong.

     We can get our condoms and birth controls,
     Study witchcraft, vampires and totem poles.
     But the Ten Commandments are not allowed,
     No word of God must reach this crowd.

     It's scary here I must confess,
     When chaos reigns the school's a mess.
     So, Lord, this silent plea I make:
     Should I be shot; my soul please take!

     Amen

     If you aren't ashamed to do this, please pass  this on. Jesus said,
     "If you are ashamed of me," I will be ashamed of you before my
     Father."

     FIDONEWS 18-13               Page 20                  26 Mar 2001


     Not ashamed. Passing this on . .  .

                        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



     -----------------------------------------------------------------

     FIDONEWS 18-13               Page 21                  26 Mar 2001


     =================================================================
                                   HUMOR
     =================================================================


     From: "R. B. Crowninshield" <mutha@capeonramp.com>

     Three girls all worked in the same office with the same
     female boss. Each day, they noticed the boss left work
     early. One day, the girls decided that, when the boss
     left, they would leave right behind her. After all, she
     never called or came back to work, so how would she know
     they went home early?

     The brunette was thrilled to be home early. She did a
     little gardening, spent playtime with her son, and went
     to bed early.

     The redhead was elated to be able to get in a quick
     workout at the spa before meeting a dinner date.

     The blonde was happy to get home early and surprise her
     husband, but when she got to her bedroom, she heard a
     muffled noise from inside. Slowly and quietly, she
     cracked open the door and was mortified to see her
     husband in bed with her boss! Gently, she closed the
     door and crept out of her house.

     The next day, at their coffee break, the brunette and
     redhead planned to leave early again, and they asked
     the blonde if she was going to go with them.

     "No way," the blonde exclaimed. "I almost got caught
     yesterday!"

                   /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\

     My sister brought her daughter a really nice
     Spinet Piano for her birthday.

     A few weeks later, I asked my sister how her
     daughter was doing.

     "Oh," she said, "I persuaded her to switch to
     a clarinet."

     "How come?" I asked.

     "Well," my sister answered, "because with a clarinet,
     she can't sing...."


                ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



     FIDONEWS 18-13               Page 22                  26 Mar 2001


     -----------------------------------------------------------------

     FIDONEWS 18-13               Page 23                  26 Mar 2001


     =================================================================
                     ADVERTISE YOUR FREE SERVICE/EVENT
     =================================================================


     Newspaper Classified Ads:

     Lost: small apricot poodle. Reward. Neutered. Like one of the family.

     For sale: an antique desk suitable for lady with thick legs and large
     drawers.

     Wanted: Unmarried girls to pick fresh fruit and produce at night.

     Tired of cleaning yourself? Let me do it.

     Stock up and save. Limit: one.

     Wanted: Part-time married girls for soda fountain in sandwich shop.

     Man wanted to work in dynamite factory. Must be willing to travel.

     Wanted. Man to take care of cow that does not smoke or drink.

     Illiterate? Write today for free help.

                  ~~~~~~~~~~s~m~i~l~e~~~~~~~~~~



     -----------------------------------------------------------------

     FIDONEWS 18-13               Page 24                  26 Mar 2001


     =================================================================
                            ANSWERS OF THE WEEK
     =================================================================

     ----------------------------------------------------------------------
     Quoting Michiel van der Vlist from a message to Carol Shenkenberger
     *                  -=+ PHONE Q & A +=-
     To: Carol Shenkenberger
     Re: PABX for the home???
     ----------------------------------------------------------------------
     MvdV> Hello Carol,
     1) How are they going to find out? From their point
        view if view it looks just like a single analog phone.

     Carol> It has to do more with compliance with the rules of service
            for the phone line here on `noncommercial rates'.

     MvdV> Do the rules of servive forbid the connection of a small home
           exchange for private use?

     Carol> I called and asked my phone company. They almost changed me to
     commercial rates just based on *asking*.  (I talked then out of it as
     I finally got someone with a brain on the line and explained I was
     asking *if it would* make for that, not that I was *doing* it)...
     Lets say with my local phone company, definate YES.
                                            xxcarol

      * Origin: SHENK'S EXPRESS Norfolk VA 757-486-3057 28.8 Dual
                (1:275/100)

         ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



     -----------------------------------------------------------------

     FIDONEWS 18-13               Page 25                  26 Mar 2001


     =================================================================
                                  NOTICES
     =================================================================

     ----------------------------------------------------------------------
     After considerable word and rewording to shorten this file, here 'tiz!
       My personal feeling that "be nice" should have been sufficient.
     ----------------------------------------------------------------------
                This is the International Fidonews Echo.
                  These rules all add up to "Be Nice".
             Revision #1.2: *** Paragraphs #11 thru #15 ***

                                 -1-
     Fidonews conference is for all persons interested in the Fido family,
     bring their questions, answers and ideas for the future development of
     Fidonet in all Zones. The fidonet is dedicated to the enjoyment of all
     seeking a hobby to communicate and assist in the movement of echo and
     netmails. Fidonews develops the topics posted in its echo so that a
     global issue weekly may reach the thousands that are not connected to
     the Fidonews echo per se.

                                 -2-
     The International Fidonews Echo may be gated to all Zones, Regions and
     nets without asking the moderator's permission.  The editor/moderator
     and Fido-Robot is in your nodelist AND in the Banner of the Fidonews.
     The editor of Fidonews is the holder of the copyright of each issue.

     To send an article CRASH netmail FILE ATTACHED, address message to:

      Fido News@1:2320/38  (1-502-245-6778)

      Use Fido News@1:2320/100 (filegate.net or 64.38.85.9) for telnet and
     binkp, or normal BBS log in.

      To log on to <<Prism's BBS and upload use:
     Username: fido news
     Password: author
     User "fido news" will have upload privileges on first log in, no
     verification needed.

                                  -3-
     Some folks may like to contribute or submit articles but do not
     know what to send or how to send it.  Any subject that may be of
     interest in general to the broad majority of Fidonet sysops, is
     welcome if it is civil and not too spicey.
     Below is a list of sections in Fidonews to help you choose a header:
     Guest Editorial        Corrections                 Thoughts
     Letters to Editor      Article of Interest         True Story
     NasCar Stories         Historical Facts            Recipes
     Fidonet Fiction        Technical Stuff             Poet's Korner
     Echoing                We Got Email                Humor - Jokes
     ASCII Comics           For  Sale (non retail)      Wanted
     Question               Answers                     Notices

                                  -4-
     Topics may be anything of interest to the broad population of Fidonet.
     FIDONEWS 18-13               Page 26                  26 Mar 2001


     Articles/items/notices submitted for publication must contain your
     real name, and fidonet address. Letters may be edited for spelling
     grammerand clarity except where writer intends an accent or quote, and
     should not exceed 250 words, preferably confining length to 66 lines.
     Submissions that are libelious or in poor taste will be ignored. The
     discussion of the benefits of sysop developed programs and
     technologies is encouraged. Ways to move mail and ideas to keep lines
     of communications open are encouraged.

                                  -5-
     DON'T Flame anyone, just tap the next key if you will please.

                                  -6-
     N0 profanity or calling for a Deity to damn someone or something.

                                  -7-
     Avoid excessive quoting. Quote only enough of the message so that you
     are understood in your reply.

                                  -8-
     Don't forget to change the subject line when it no longer applies.

                                  -9-
     The official language of the echo is English. Please do not post
     messages or articles in any other language.  All bi-lingual articles
     are welcome submitted to the editor 1:1/23. Be sure to include an
     English translation in the same message.  If you cannot route a file
     attachment, then put it into the message text body. If it is too long,
     more than 66 lines, for one message, send two or more messages. I can
     edit them all into one article in the Makenews. Please keep lines to
     no more than 70 characters. No left margin please.

                                  -10-
     ONLY the Moderator or co-moderator will address off-topic traffic.

                                  -11-
     NO Private WAR Messages please; that seems to derail the continuity
     and purpose of the echo.

                                  -12-
     The change in editors will be done in accordance with past tradition.
     The editor will name a co-moderator upon becoming editor, to be his
     successor when he retires or is incapacitated.

      A) Editor should retire after a reasonable time of one or two years,
     If a capable volunteer can be located. Or if his ZC in conference with
     the ZCC ask him to choose a successor. This to protect the Fidonews
     from any `unworthy' editor.

      B) The editor will supply and periodically update a preferred
     replacement list of names his ZC can use in an emergency should the
     editor and co-moderator both be incapacitated by any disaster or
     death.

     C) If said emergency incapacitates the editor and the co-moderator,
     the ZC of the Zone in which the editor resides, will choose a
     FIDONEWS 18-13               Page 27                  26 Mar 2001


     replacement from that editor's list of names.

     D) The Editor Pro Tem has up to the usual 90 days to prove ability or
     be replaced with another name from the list.

     F) Anyone who feels the urge to be an editor may net or email his/her
     name to the Editor as a volunteer to be added to the editor's list.

                                  -13-
     The ZC will use the editor's list of volunteers to make the selection
     of the next editor pro tem in an emergency.

                                  -14-
     An entity unto itself with registered Logo and Trademark per USPO:
     "Fido, Fidonet and dog-with-diskette are registered trademarks of Tom
     Jennings who resides in Zone One, San Francisco, Ca. USA " And
     permission given for their use in fido banner enveloped in the
     editor's copyright.  Fees are paid through 2007.

                                  -15-
           These Guidelines are subject to change at any time.
               The moderator's word is the final authority.

                     ~~~~~~~~~~~~~end~~~~~~~~~~~


     -----------------------------------------------------------------

     FIDONEWS 18-13               Page 28                  26 Mar 2001


     =================================================================
                            FIDONET BY INTERNET
     =================================================================

     ------------------------------------------------------
     *Fidonet-related sites

                       . -- -- -- -- --- -- -- -- -- .
                       |    FIDONET-RELATED SITES    |
                       ` -- -- -- -- --- -- -- -- -- '
                          Last update:  March 3, 2001

     FidoNet
     Homepage:     http://www.fidonet.org
     FidoNews:     http://www.fidonews.org   [HTML]
                   ftp://ftp.nwstar.com/fidonet/fidonews/
     Echolist:     http://www.baltimoremd.com/echolist/
     Echomail links: http://www.osirusoft.com/fidonet/fidoip.html
     SDS Files:    http://fidobbs.dk/download (Web Access to SDS)
     FTSC page:    http://www.ftsc.org/
     General:      http://www.writebynight.com/fidonet.html

     Zone 1:       http://www.z1.fidonet.org
       Region 10:  http://www.r10.org
         Net 102   http://home.earthlink.net/~kayshapero/net102.htm
         Net 103:  http://www.webworldinc.com/club103/
         Net 203:  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8687/net203index.html
       Region 11:  http://oeonline.com/~garyg/region11/
        Net 2410:  http://www.vector.11.com/net2410/
       Region 12:  http://sparkys.dyndns.org
       Region 13:  http://www.net264.org/r13.htm
         Net 264:  http://www.net264.org/
         Net 275:  http://www.homershut.net/~mahoover/net275/
       Region 14:  http://www.ouijabrd.com/region14
         Net 282:  http://www.rxn.com/~net282/
       Region 15:  <vacant>
       Region 16:  <vacant>
       Region 17:  http://www.region17.net
         Net 140:  http://www.nwstar.com/~net140
       Region 18:  http://techshop.pdn.net/fido/

       Region 19:  http://bise.tzo.com/r19
         Net 124:  http://www.dallasinet.com/net124
                   http://texoma.net/~flv
         Net 130:  http://www.startext.net/homes/net130
         Net 393:  http://www.chatter.com/~wb/

     Zone 2:       http://www.z2.fidonet.org
       Region 20:  http://www.fidonet.pp.se (in Swedish)
       Region 23:  http://www.fido.dk (in Danish)

       Region 24:  http://www.swb.de/personal/flop/gatebau.html (German)
                   http://www.was-ist-fido.de/
         Fido-IP:  http://home.nrh.de/fido/ (English/German)
       Region 25:  http://www.literary.freeserve.co.uk/net2502/
       Region 26:  http://www.nemesis.ie
     FIDONEWS 18-13               Page 29                  26 Mar 2001


          REC 26:  http://www.nrgsys.com/orb
       Region 27:  http://telematique.org/ft/r27.htm
       Region 29:  http://www.rtfm.be/fidonet/  (French)
                   http://Welcome.to/skynetbbs/
       Region 30:  http://www.fidonet.ch  (German)
     ? Region 33:  http://www.fidoitalia.net  (Italian)
       Region 34:  http://www.pobox.com/cnb/r34.htm  (Spanish)
           REC34:  http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/4552/
       Region 36:  http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/7207/
       Region 38:  http://public.st.carnet.hr/~blagi/bbs/adriam.html
       Region 41:  http://www.fidonet.gr (Greek/English)
       Region 42:  http://www.fido.cz
     !    Net422:  http://www.fido.sk (Slovak/English)
       Region 50:  http://www.fido7.com/  (Russian)
        Net 5010:  http://fido.tu-chel.ac.ru/  (Russian)
        Net 5015:  http://www.fido.nnov.ru/  (Russian)
        Net 5028:  HTTP://5028.nordnet.ru/
        Net 5030:  http://kenga.ru/fido/  (Russian & English)
        Net 5049:  http://www.n5049.z2.fidonet.org  (English/Russian)
        Net 5074:  http://www.z2.n5074.fidonet.net
     ??  Net 5085:  http://www.fidonet.uz/ (Russian)

     Zone 3:       http://www.z3.fidonet.org

     Zone 4:
       Region 80:  http://fidobrasil.8m.com  (Portuguese)
       Region 90:
         Net 904:  http://members.tripod.com/~net904 (Spanish)

     Zone 5:       http://www.eastcape.co.za/fidonet/

     Zone 6:       http://www.z6.fidonet.org
       Region 65:  http://www.cfido.com/fidonet/cfidochina.html
                   (Chinese)


                          Fidonet Via Internet Hubs

     See also: http://www.osirusoft.com/fidoip.html

     a @ preceding an individual's name implies a virtual email
     address. The email is translated as follows
     firstlast@osirusoft.com will automatically route to the
     appropriate individual's email.  Anyone in this list will
     also receive routed notice of this feature.  In my case, it
     would still be joejared@osirusoft.com, but you get the idea.

     Also, as information is provided to me, I will be adding a
     latency field to each node, which is defined as the maximum
     time between when the message is received, and when it is
     sent on to other nodes, or available to be sent onward,
     defined in minutes. A latency of ! implies that there is an
     immediate response, and an attempt to deliver immediately
     after processing, or a "MinuteMail System", as it were.

                v-email flag firstnamelastname@osirusoft.com
     FIDONEWS 18-13               Page 30                  26 Mar 2001


                | email address or
     Node#      | Operator          | Facilities (*) | Speed,| Basic Rate
                |                   |                |latency|
     -----------+-------------------+----------------+-------+------------
     Zone 1     |                   |                |       |
       10/3     | Brenda Donovan    | FTP,UUE,BinkP  | 384K,30| n/c
       10/345   @ Todd Cochrane     | FTP,BinkP,VMOT | T1,!  | n/c
       13/25    @ Jim Balcom        | FTP            | 56k   | $20mo.
       18/500   @ Ross Cassell      | FTP, BinkP     |128K+,!| n/c
      103/5     @ Mark Luetger      | BinkP          | 384k,!| n/c
      103/153   @ Michael Box       | BinkP          | aDSL,!| n/c
      103/301   @ Joe Jared         | BinkP,FTP,NFS  | 384k,!| n/c
      103/401   @ Warren Bonner     | BinkP          | aDSL,!| n/c
      105/8     | Russ Johnson      | FTP,BinkP,VMoT | 384k  | n/c
      105/72    @ Larry James       | FTP, BinkP     | aDSL  | $50/yr
      106/1     @ Steve Loupe       | BinkP, FTP     | 128k  | ???
      106/6018  | Lawrence Garvin   | FTP, VMoT      | aDSL,60| n/c
      107/453   @ Jeffrey Estevez| FTP,BinkP,VMoT,UUE| 56k,60| $10 mo.
      140/1     @ Bob Seaborn       | FTP,BinkP      | T3,30 | $5/$16
      167/133   | Stephen Monteith  | BinkP          | 128k+ | n/c
      211/417   @ Korombos          | BinkP,UUE,FTP  | T1    | n/c
      220/10    | groberts@nexusbbs.net |BinkP,FTP,UUE|1.5M+ | n/c
      218/109   @ Matt Munson       | BinkP,UUE      | 33.6k | n/c
      246/160   @ Mason Vye         | FTP, UUE       | 56K   | n/c
      249/116   | Carl Austin Bennett | FTP, UUE    |ADSL,60 | n/c
      280/169   | Brian Greenstreet | FTP            | 33.6  | $2mo.
      342/3     @ Richard Dodsworth | BinkP,FTP      | 128K+ | n/c
      395/670   | Arthur Stark      | BinkD,FTP      | CABLE | n/c
      379/1     @ Dale Ross         | FTP, BinkP,UUE | 256K+,! n/c
      396/45    | Marc Lewis        | UUE            | 33.6  | $26/yr
      396/48    | Ben Ritchey       | UUE:BFDS       | 33.6k | n/c
     2604/104   @ Jim Mclaughlin    | FTP,VMoT,UUE   | 33.6  | $1mo
     2613/404   @ David Moufarrege  | BinkP,FTP,VMoT | 128k+,!| n/c
     2624/306   | David Calafrancesco  | VMoT        | 33.6  | n/c
     3407/4     @ jyates@bsdi.ldl.net | UUE,FTP            | 28.8  | n/c
     3632/84    | Robert Todd    |FTP,VMoT,UUE,BinkP | 57.6k | n/c
     3651/9     @ Jerry Gause       | FTP,VMoT       | 33.6  | $3/$6
     --------------------------------------------------------------
     Zone 2     |
       20/11    | Henrik Lindhe     | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
       31/1     | Gabriel Plutzar   | BinkP          | T1+   | n/c
      203/600   | Mikael Karlsson   | UUE            | 64k   | n/c
      221/360   @ Tommi Koivula     | BinkP,UUE      | ???   | n/c
      236/205   @ Michael Kaaber    | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
      246/2098  | Volker Imre       | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
      280/1601  @ Jeroen VanDeLeur  | FTP,UUE        | 64k   | n/c
      292/620   | Eddy Missoul      | VMoT, UUE,BinkP| 64k   |N/C
      292/624   | Steven Leeman     | UUE          | 64k     | N/C
      292/907   | Bart Verhaeghe    | BinkP,VMoT,UUE | 64K   | n/c
      292/2003  | Eric Vaneberck    | BinkP          | 768k  | n/c
      301/1     | Peter Witschi     | BinkP          | 768k  | n/c
      332/807   | Roberto Mascolo   | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
      335/535   @ Mario Mure        | BinkP,VMot,UUE | 64k   | n/c
      335/610   | Gino Lucrezi      | UUE            | 33.6  | n/c
      344/201   | Julio Garcia      | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
      346/3     @ Carlos Navarro    | UUE            | ???   | n/c
     FIDONEWS 18-13               Page 31                  26 Mar 2001


      382/100   | Sinisa Burina     | BinkP,ifcico   | ???   | n/c
      406/555   | Ofir Michaeli &   | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
      406/555   | Marius Kaizerman  | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
      423/81    | Milos Bajer       | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
      465/204   | Va Milushnikov    | BinkP          | 33.6k | n/c
      469/84    | Max Masyutin      | VMoT           | 256k  | n/c
      480/112   | Adam Sarapata| FTP, VMoT, UUE,BinkP| 128k  | n/c
      550/4077  | Serguei Trouchelle| UUE            | ----- | n/c
     2411/413   @ Dennis Dittrich   | UUE,BinkP      | 64k   | n/c
     2446/301   @ Lothar Behet      | BinkP,VMoT,UUE,FTP | 64K   | n/c
     2474/275   | Christian Emig    | UUE            | 64k   | unkn
     5030/115   | Andrey Podkolzin  | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
     5100/8     | Egons Bush        | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
     5020/1159  | Gennady Kudryashoff | UUE          | 33.6  | n/c
     --------------------------------------------------------------
     Zone 3
      633/260   @ Malcolm Miles     | FTP,BinkP      | 64K   | n/c
      640/954   | Rick Van Ruth     | FTP,VMot,UUE,BinkP| 56K| n/c
      774/605   @ Barry Blackford|BinkP,VMoT:10023,ifcico,FTP |33.6| n/c

     --------------------------------------------------------------
     Zone 4
      801/161   @ Renato Zambon     | UUE            | 33.6  |n/c
      905/100   | Fabian Gervan     | VMoT,UUE,BinkP | 128k  | n/c
      902/18    | Javier Tejedor    | UUE            | 33,6  | n/c

     --
     * FTP   = Internet File Transfer Protocol
     * VMoT  = Virtual Mailer over Telnet (various)
     * UUE   = uuencode<->email type transfers
     * BinkP = front end mailer for TCPIP networks
     * NFS   = Linux Networking
     ----------------------------------------------
     Fidonet oriented news servers

     news.osirusoft.com
     news.tardis.net

     Fidonet oriented chat rooms.

     room #fidonet  5PM (PDT 11AM GMT) Sundays
     irc.osirusoft.com  (Peers wanted)

     ----------------------------------------------

     Please send updates, corrections and suggestions to
     Joe Jared, 1:103/301, joejared@osirusoft.com.  All email addresses
     here for purpose of corresponding with fidonet members about
     obtaining a feed.  Improper use of the virtual email addresses, and
     most especially, email addressed to blockme@relays.osirusoft.com
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     stopper at http://relays.osirusoft.com




     FIDONEWS 18-13               Page 32                  26 Mar 2001


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     FIDONEWS 18-13               Page 33                  26 Mar 2001


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