      F I D O N E W S         Volume 17, Number 06             07 Feb 2000 
     +----------------------------+---------------------------------------+
     |  The newsletter of the     |   ISSN 1198-4589 Published by:        |
     |    FidoNet community       |   "FidoNews"                          |
     |          _                 |   1-717-732-6820     1:270/720        |
     |         /  \               |                                       |
     |        /|oo \              |                                       |
     |       (_|  /_)             |                                       |
     |        _`@/_ \    _        |                                       |
     |       |     | \   \\       |   Editor: Douglas Myers, 1:270/720    |
     |       | (*) |  \   ))      |           DougM@paonline.com          |
     |       |__U__| /  \//       |                                       |
     |        _//|| _\   /        |                                       |
     |       (_/(_|(____/         |                                       |
     |             (jm)           |   Newspapers should have no friends.  |
     |                            |                    -- JOSEPH PULITZER |
     +----------------------------+---------------------------------------+
     


                        Table of Contents
     1. HEADLINES  ................................................  1
        Good News, Bad News  ......................................  1
     2. EDITORIAL  ................................................  2
        Would you like fries with that order?  ....................  2
     3. GUEST EDITORIAL  ..........................................  3
        Editorial Rebuttal  .......................................  3
        First Principles, Part I  .................................  5
     4. LETTERS TO THE EDITOR  ....................................  7
        Why Bother to Read?  ......................................  7
        Demand for Editorial Apology  .............................  7
        MAC Page  .................................................  8
     5. ARTICLES  .................................................  9
        Close Encounters of the Best Kind  ........................  9
        My Thoughts on Fidonet  ................................... 10
     6. COLUMNS  .................................................. 12
        Ol'WDB: History Column  ................................... 12
        This Weeks Web Page  ...................................... 13
     7. NET HUMOR  ................................................ 15
        Bad  Boys  in  trouble  ................................... 15
        New Position  ............................................. 15
     8. COMIX IN ASCII  ........................................... 17
        Udderly Cool Cows  ........................................ 17
     9. INTERNET INFO  ............................................ 18
        Fidonet-related sites  .................................... 18
     10. FIDONEWS INFO  ........................................... 22
        Masthead  ................................................. 22
     FIDONEWS 17-06               Page 1                    7 Feb 2000


     =================================================================
                                 HEADLINES
     =================================================================


                             Good News, Bad News

     In this issue, you get a little of each.  Frank Vest continues in
     the positive direction by further examining web sites related to
     Fidonet.  David Smith begins his series entitled "First Principles"
     where he examines the ZMH and FTS001 issue with a view to how they
     might be considered to improve Fido.

     And, on the bad news side, Charles Hunter demands a retraction on
     views printed here, and continues to draw both editorial response
     and reader response.  I've got to confess that he responded to both
     Ross Cassell and Roy Tellason in long articles, but I didn't print
     them because he mostly repeated his views and I was too lazy to
     straighten out the format so the Fidonews program would accept the
     articles.  Okay... maybe I was a little tired of the input too...

     Jim Rysyk contributes fresh complaints in an article received in
     routed netmail.  To his credit, he tried to crash my system about 50
     times according to his logs.  I had to route the acknowledgement
     back since, when I tried to crash it, we connected long enough for
     me to be charged for the connection, but not long enough for a mail
     session to be established.



     -----------------------------------------------------------------

     FIDONEWS 17-06               Page 2                    7 Feb 2000


     =================================================================
                                 EDITORIAL
     =================================================================


                    Would you like fries with that order?
                                  Doug Myers

     Should a sysop be a mere order taker for his BBS users?  Should a
     Coordinator act only to pander to his assigned constituency?  Such
     would seem to be the expectations of at least two of the recent
     contributors to Fidonews, Charles Hunter and Jim Rysyk.

     Charles, emailing under the name of "Mike," complains that Fidonet
     sysops and moderators don't control the echoes sufficiently that
     he's not bothered by messages which offend him.  It is his assertion
     that the mere fact that he's put the sysops here on notice requires
     action on their part to make it happen.  This attitude, if it
     prevailed, would reduce sysops to mere order takers.

     Jim Rysyk sends me logs from his mailer documenting his attempts to
     freq back issues of Fidonews from several coordinators.  The logs
     show many systems which didn't have all the files (at least not
     available for freq), and systems which wouldn't even connect with
     him (including mine).

     Certainly it would be a grand thing if we would meet the
     expectations of these individuals.  But should we?  Are we under
     some obligation to do so?

     When I was younger, I worked in a fast food environment for a couple
     of years.  My motivation was income.  Though I enjoyed the
     customers, all they were expected to do was bring sufficient money
     to handle their orders - for that alone I was expected to give
     polite attention to their orders.  With Fidonet, I don't expect an
     income - I'm in it for the quality of the interactions.  Though I've
     enjoyed the BBS users and other sysops over the years, and I've
     agreed to take on duties to help the organization move along - I've
     always expected some reasonable treatment from those with whom I
     interact.

     Is this expectation reasonable on my part?  On the part of the
     Fidonet sysops, coordinators, and moderators?

     Fidonews continues to welcome articles about what's wrong with
     Fidonet... but the best articles offer some opinion on how to make
     things better.  I believe that Charles and Jim need to do more than
     bitch and demand if they're to be welcomed here.



     -----------------------------------------------------------------

     FIDONEWS 17-06               Page 3                    7 Feb 2000


     =================================================================
                              GUEST EDITORIAL
     =================================================================


                              Editorial Rebuttal
              Ross Cassell, thedarkcorner.dynip.com (1:3639/93)


     You may post this as a rebuttal to your editorial

      FR> ================================================================
      FR>                             EDITORIAL
      FR> ================================================================
      FR>                         Freedom of the Press
      FR>                              Doug Myers

      FR> This week's editorial was inspired by Ross Cassell's guest
      FR> editorial.  But let me make it clear that I don't think that
      FR> Ross seeks to abridge the principle of a Free Press.  Nor is it
      FR> a proper response to Ross's editorial; for what it's worth, I
      FR> mostly agree with him.  Rather, it's an attempt on my part to
      FR> explain to the readers here how I view the concept of Freedom
      FR> of the Press, and why such freedom might be extended to the
      FR> clearly unpopular views of Charles Hunter (apparently the real
      FR> name of "Mike," who complains of persecution at the hands of
      FR> Fidonet).


     My editorial did not hint in the least that this author advocated
     abridging or inhibiting the Freedom Of The Press. I could care less
     about the unpopular views of Charles Hunter, except that he is doing
     nothing but threatening legal action against any individual whom
     dont sing his praises, including the very sysops whom give him
     access to a Fidonet Message base. Now I dont think being the
     threatened or the threatener equates to popularity of lack of it, it
     might equate to stupidity tho? The point being he wanders into or
     actually followed another individual into an echo whose purpose is
     to taunt, flame etc, then he wants to cry about it?

     Charles was not persecuted at the hands of Fidonet, he subjected
     himself to the ridicule of other users such as himself within an
     echo where such ridicule is commonplace.

     My editorial which possibly didnt convey my point very well was
     posted to say this:

     I feel that Fidonews is the newsletter for the members of Fidonet,
     Charles Hunter is not a member of Fidonet, at least not by any
     nodelist I got. He should have gotten a member of this association
     to post something on his behalf, but with his lawsuit threats, who
     is going to act on behalf of him? When I first netmailed Doug Myers
     voicing my objections to him publishing Charles whine and pout
     letter, I used an analogy that is kinda sorta proper?

     " If the local garden club holds a sale at the local community
     FIDONEWS 17-06               Page 4                    7 Feb 2000


     center, selling the various plants their members cultivated, and I
     patronized this sale, do I have a voice in the garden clubs
     newsletter? "

     Garden Club = Fidonet
          Member = Fidonet BBS Sysop
          Patron = BBS User
      Newsletter = Fidonews

     The answer is, I think not.

     Now taking this a step further, I could have a problem with a plant
     I bought and I could address my concern to a member, whom might on
     my behalf say something about it via their newsletter?

     No Doug, I had a problem with a non-member [A] being given a voice
     in our newsletter on the first hand, why he had to use an alias, I
     dunno? [B] He is threatening our membership with legal action
     because someone says boo to him.

     [snip]

      FR> So recently your editor finds in his email an article by
      FR> Charles Hunter, claiming persecution at the hands of Fidonet.
      FR> Does he strike your editor as one who's story simply must be
      FR> heard, either because it has merit or because the free press
      FR> nature of Fidonews demands that it be printed?  Or should the
      FR> article be rejected because the author is not a Fidonet sysop
      FR> or because the point of view might upset some?


     See above... :)

      FR> Actually, neither extreme determined publication or rejection
      FR> of the article.  Certainly, I didn't think that Charles (or
      FR> "Mike" or whatever) had a strong argument, and his tendency
      FR> towards legal threats predisposed me to just delete the message
      FR> to begin with. Nor did I consider whether he was a Fidonet
      FR> sysop or not - I feel there are many who are not sysops who
      FR> make positive contributions to Fidonet, and this publication is
      FR> for them also.

     Let him become a member, if he has enough money to throw around
     paying for lawyers, he can certainly afford registration fees for
     Fido software!

      FR> So why did he get published?  Well, it was a slow day for
      FR> news... ... and I did consider that there was some content of
      FR> interest to Fidonews readers.  Like it or not, the expectation
      FR> that the Sysops and Moderators of Fidonet should control what's
      FR> posted here is strong with many, and should be vocalized from
      FR> time to time... if only to repudiate the notion.

     Ah the slow news day..... <g>

     Actually my whole editorial was an objection, not a demand,
     FIDONEWS 17-06               Page 5                    7 Feb 2000


     directive or anything remotely perceivable as controlling..

     Some might have called it an opinion? <g>

     ---------------

     Editor's Note:  At no time did I consider your editorial a
     demand, nor anything less than a fine contribution to Fidonews.
     The fact that we differ in some of the details of our thinking
     merely indicates that there are two minds at work here :)


     -----------------------------------------------------------------


                               First Principles
              Part I in a Series examining ZMH and FTS001 Issues
                David B. Smith, American Tune BBS (1:2410/104)

     You know, I've had the thought recently that ZMH concept is designed
     and best suited for FidoNet looked at from the original perspective,
     the exact opposite of today.

     The original concept was each BBS as a venue unto itself.  Its own
     message areas, its own file areas, everything on its own.  Fidonet's
     netmail was one small intrusion into that isolation.  And it was set
     up in such a way that it intruded very little.

     ZMH is netmail not trying to interfere with the accessibility of the
     BBS for users, because Netmail was one very small thing.  So out of
     24 hours of operation -- and maybe less, with some BBSes -- only one
     hour is alloted to passing netmail.  More would be obstructive.
     Less would be insufficient, if you have multiple people trying to
     send you netmail, or if you're sending netmail, so not all your
     recieving time is available.

     And the rest of the time, you're mailer can be shut down and tucked
     in a corner, if that what you feel is best for your system.

     Echomail changed all that, and on top of that all the filebones.
     Now, BBSes are no longer individual.  Mostly, they are places to
     connect to one or more networks.  So there is no reason for
     Fidonet's machinations to be unobtrusive.  Avoiding inability to
     connect is important.  But trying to make Fidonet and other network
     feeds invisible is kinda meaningless.

     I think ZMH does no particular harm.  There are ways it could cause
     harm; for example, if it is used as a motivation to remove BBSes
     from the Network.

     The whole point of ZMH is to say that Fidonet -won't- interfere with
     operation of the BBS as it's own independent venue, any more than it
     absolutely must.  One hour a day, and absolutely no more. Outside of
     that one hour a day, if you feel it's best, you can pull the plug
     and walk away if you want to.  Fidonet is secondary, the BBS is
     primary. "First, do no harm."
     FIDONEWS 17-06               Page 6                    7 Feb 2000


     As for FTS001 (hope I got the name right), it isn't intended as a
     requirement to be -imposed- on the BBS and the Sysop, it is again a
     way of interfering -least- with the BBS.  "If you have a mailer that
     does -at least- this, you don't need to buy anything more, unless
     you -want- to."

     Likewise, Echomail exists to add to the quality of the BBS, and not
     vice versa.  If the handling or content of Echomail interferes with
     the quality of the BBS, then it needs to be dealt with in it's
     secondary role, preserving the BBS primarily.

     Bottom line, the BBS and the Sysop and how an individual wants to
     run their individual system, that's what's most important.  Fidonet
     standards, rules, guidelines, Policies, whatever, are all secondary
     to that.

     Now, with so many other ways to move Netmail and Echomail and such,
     it is entirely possible for ZMH as a -rule- to interfere with a BBS.
     I don't think it will happen often.  But in those cases where it's a
     question of the BBS's primary role as a local site for local
     conversations & game-playing & what-all, and it's secondary role as
     a repository and access point for echomail and netmail and such,
     then I believe Fidonet has to return to those first principles.  Do
     what is necessary to preserve that primary function, the individual
     BBS itself.

     I don't expect most people to agree with me.  But that's what I
     think is right.


     -----------------------------------------------------------------

     FIDONEWS 17-06               Page 7                    7 Feb 2000


     =================================================================
                           LETTERS TO THE EDITOR
     =================================================================

     Why Bother to Read?  Email to the Editor
     By: Kent Anderson      1:382/92      kand@jump.net

     Reading all the flap about Mike, aka Charles Hunter, aka Charles
     Hunter Matzdobre, makes me wonder. Why does anyone bother to read
     such  controversial material?

     Nearly every offline reader I know of has a twit filter of some
     sort. If not, every keyboard has a key that jumps to the next
     message. Long, long ago, this guy made my twit filter, therefore he
     doesn't offend me and I don't bother him. I have seen a comment from
     others that the lawsuits he threatens would be laughed out of court.

     If you let your blood pressure be raised by a user like this, you
     have only yourself to blame.


     -----------------------------------------------------------------


                         Demand for Editorial Apology
                          Extracted from Email from
                                Charles Hunter

     ---------------
     > Rather, it's an attempt on my part to explain to the readers here
     > how I view the concept of Freedom of the Press, and why such freedom
     > might be extended to the clearly unpopular views of Charles Hunter
     > (apparently the real name of "Mike," who complains of persecution at
     > the hands of Fidonet).

     I take exception to your innuendo that my "real name" is "Mike".  I
     told you in an email that accompanied/followed my original email to
     you (Bullies of Fidonet) that "Mike" is my nickname and is added as
     the signature to all of my personal emails through my ISP.  You darn
     well knew that; and yet you adopt the tactic of Ross Cassell of
     implying that I'm using an alias either because you have
     collaborated with Ross; or to try to support your rather weak
     position in your editorials.  I'm beginning to think that nobody
     associated with Fidonet has any concern for the rights of other
     people.  In regard to your complained of tactic concerning my
     nickname "Mike" and real name "Charles Hunter" I demand an apology
     and a retraction forthwith.
     ---------------

     Editor's Response:  At no time prior to printing your article did I
     receive any email from you divulging your real name.  I made no
     innuendo that your real name is "Mike". If you read what you quoted,
     I'm accepting Ross Cassell's input that your real name is Charles
     Hunter.

     Further, the point is moot since I made no complaint of which name
     FIDONEWS 17-06               Page 8                    7 Feb 2000


     you chose to write your article under.  You will see no apology nor
     retraction from me.

     I'm surprised that one who threatens legal action such as you feels
     free to charge me with collaboration which you can't substantiate.
     My total corrospondance with Ross prior to printing his guest
     editorial was to reply to a preliminary letter he'd written
     objecting to your publication.  I told him I wanted to publish that
     original letter, but wanted his permission since he hadn't given it
     in his letter.  He responded with instructions to hold off while he
     wrote his guest editorial.

     Ross responded to the article which YOU asked to have published
     here.  Your charge of collaboration is reckless and unfounded.


     -----------------------------------------------------------------


                                   MAC Page
                            Netmail to the Editor
               Frank Vest, Collin County Station (1:124/6308.1)

     In the Fidonews, there was a person asking about a Mac BBS software
     page.  Here's one that I know of:

     http://www.hermesii.org/

     There's a link on my page for BBS software and support. That address
     is:

     http://texoma.net/~flv/support.htm

     Please pass this on to the person and to Fidonews.


     -----------------------------------------------------------------

     FIDONEWS 17-06               Page 9                    7 Feb 2000


     =================================================================
                                 ARTICLES
     =================================================================


                      Close Encounters of the Best Kind
                               By Kent Anderson
                        1:382/92       kand @jump.net

     Since way back in '82, I have been enthusiastically logging in to
     Fidonet BBS's and participating in both their local areas and in
     echomail. Since the Internet became another vehicle for messaging, I
     have also witnessed the number of these BBS's in the United States
     and Canada ever shrinking, and the amount of traffic flowing via
     echomail dwindling each day.

     For me, and for other Fidonet diehards, this is a sad and unpleasant
     happening. That does not mean that I have anything against the
     Internet. To me, Fidonet and Internet are two distinct tools, and I
     like to use the best features of each. To me, Usenet, with its
     un-moderated input, and mailing lists are not in the running with
     Fidonet echomail. The Internet is great for chatting with a group,
     but the cold addressing of every message to "All", and depending on
     your memory to otherwise identify the person to whom it is addressed
     just takes something out of it.

     Sure, I know that echomail, while it may be addressed to an
     individual is an open invitition for anyone else to chime in on any
     subject, but it is just not the same. I also like the fact that, in
     the local areas of Fidonet, I get to know, and even to meet people
     right in my own locale. It's a special type of camaraderie.

     I have some living proof that that may carry to other than local
     areas: In the Memories Echo, of which I was a long time Moderator,
     and am now Co-Moderator, we had a group of people from New Zealand,
     Kiwi's, become active participants. Gee, what a nice bunch of folks.
     After a year or two of constant messaging, I feel that these people,
     and all who come to that echo regularly, are part of an extended
     family. It is an amazing closeness, considering the miles which may
     separate us, and to me that is one of the truly great rewards of
     participating in echomail and local BBS events.

     And now, the almost unbelievable may happen. One of the Kiwi's, a
     Bob King from Christchurch, has won a trip back to his original home
     in England, and is allowed five stopovers while enroute. He is
     trying to arrange for one of those stopovers to be Bergstrom
     International Airport right here in Austin.

     If he can, although neither of us will be truly able to confirm it,
     it may not be our first face to face meeting. You see, during WWII,
     I was stationed at a USAAFB called Merryfield, near Yeovil in
     England. Bob was then a youngster and often came to the gate and
     chatted with whomever was on guard duty there. I spent many a happy
     time with these English kids, giving a  bit of gum or candy when it
     was available, and enjoying their chatter. So, who knows - it's a
     small world!
     FIDONEWS 17-06               Page 10                   7 Feb 2000


     I am keeping my fingers crossed, am  aglow with anticipation, and
     otherwise on pins and needles hoping for this great event to take
     place.

     How wonderful it would be to meet this guy, with whom I have
     exchanged potshots, poking fun at each other, and even occasional
     serious information over the past three or four years. It will be
     truly great if we can spend enough time to bend an elbow and break a
     bit of bread with each other. I feel certain that Bob will prove to
     be the great guy he comes across as in the echo. And, if this event
     does to come to pass, there will be another story to tell, right
     here in Fidonews.


     -----------------------------------------------------------------


                            My Thoughts on Fidonet
                              Jim Rysyk 1:12/242

     Reply to: Darrell Salter post FIDO1701.nws January 2000. Yes, it
     probably should have been called FIDO1801.nws.  But it unarced as
     1701.

     As I see it, over the years, the recently elected, appointer, as
     well as the self appointed have caused much of the Fidonet
     problems.  I've been a member of 4 different Fido nets, as well as
     members in some 30 other clones of Fido, using FTS mailers.  Most
     often, after a new *C is elected, or appointed, things go bad.  If
     and when we are lucky, this only lasts for a few month.  When we
     are not so luck, the new *C blames everyone else, every one else
     software, every one else configuration.  Being a member of so many
     nets, its surprising that the same names repeat in the *C
     position, then the down links of these *Cs start complaining, and
     leaving.

     Some of the nodes disappeared due to people playing with the
     segment of the nodelist.  Several of my assigned addresses
     disappeared this way. Some of the nodes disappeared, due to people
     mis routing Net Mail to places where no arrangements to route mail
     were discussed by anyone. Most often this is a dead end node, some
     times in areas that speak a different language.  Other times the
     Net Mail has been held at various official route hubs, who
     specialize in delaying and mis routing the mail. I've several 1st
     hand examples of this type of Net Mail that had been addressed to
     my various addresses over the years. As of 1999 it still goes on,
     and is still routed through two or more hubs here in Toronto,
     before heading East into Quebec, and some dead end nodes.

     At least half a dozen different dead end nodes have forwarded me
     such Net Mail in the last five years.  Unfortunately in most or
     all cases my complaints to the *C structure failed to have the
     misrouting corrected. Some of the *C structure thought it was
     funny, and joked about it.

     I've other reasons why I'm not participating in Fido.  Eg a hub
     FIDONEWS 17-06               Page 11                   7 Feb 2000


     was ordered to cut my feed, and several hubs were ordered to
     password me out.  One local node who is also listed as a Hub, but
     shows no nodes listed before the next hub is listed, kept on
     writing me echo and net mail consisting of two words, repeated
     500, or even 1,000 times in these last three years.  Yes, its the
     other person who wrote an item in FIDO1701.NSW, for Week 1, of
     2000.  This is why the echo I used to moderated, went unmoderated.

     With no reliable echo feed so many times, and no kick in backup
     feed for so many reasons, both intentional, and mis configurations
     in so many nodes/Hubs/*Cs, I no longer participate.

     Until the local Net Mail, Echo Mail, Filebone, and Internet Gate
     is fixed, and the insults and language is cleaned up, I will
     remain out of the echoes, even the ones I used to moderate.

     I've a stale date filter, that refused to process mail over 30
     days old, so don't route any coments back to me.

     Local Net Mail remained mis routed in 1999, with at least three *C
     participating, moving net mail addresses to 1:12/242 to dead end
     nodes in Quebec in 1999.  So if you want to contact me, CM direct,
     and unpacked please.

     Take care, and get Fido Fixed.  I can't even FREQ the local *Cs in
     Reg 12.

     Not much has changed, or been fixed in R12.

     It used to be fun.


     -----------------------------------------------------------------

     FIDONEWS 17-06               Page 12                   7 Feb 2000


     =================================================================
                                  COLUMNS
     =================================================================


                                History Column
                             wdbonner@pacbell.net


      Here's piece of US history which makes you sit down and say
      hmmmmmmmm......

      Abraham Lincoln was elected to Congress in 1846.
      John F. Kennedy was elected to Congress in 1946.

      Abraham Lincoln was elected President in 1860.
      John F. Kennedy was elected President in 1960.

      The names Lincoln and Kennedy each contain seven letters.
      Both were particularly concerned with civil rights.
      Both wives lost children while living in the White House.
      Both Presidents were shot on a Friday.
      Both Presidents were shot in the head.

      Lincoln's secretary was named Kennedy.
      Kennedy's secretary was named Lincoln.

      Both were assassinated by Southerners.
      Both were succeeded by Southerners.
      Both successors were named Johnson.

      Andrew Johnson, who succeeded Lincoln, was born in 1808.
      Lyndon Johnson, who succeeded Kennedy, was born in 1908.

      John Wilkes Booth, who assassinated Lincoln, was born in 1839.
      Lee Harvey Oswald, who assassinated Kennedy, was born in 1939.

      Both assassins were known by their three names.
      Both names are comprised of fifteen letters.

      Lincoln was shot at the theater named "Kennedy".
      Kennedy was shot in a car called "Lincoln".

      Booth ran from the theater and was caught in a warehouse.
      Oswald ran from a warehouse and was caught in a theater.

      Booth and Oswald were assassinated before their trials.

      And here's the kicker....

      A week before Lincoln was shot, he was in Monroe, Maryland.
      A week before Kennedy was shot, he was in Marilyn Monroe.

     Author unknown..


     FIDONEWS 17-06               Page 13                   7 Feb 2000


     -----------------------------------------------------------------

                             This Weeks Web Page
                                By Frank Vest
                                1:124/6308(.1)


     Name: Country BBS Home Page - 3:640/296
     Where: http://www.fan.net.au/~allround/

     What's it got:

     Ok... The BBS is in Australia. The page has what looks like an Ansi
     picture of a stand of trees to the right side. I'm not sure what
     this means, but I do like the idea of an Ansi picture on a page. :)

     The page is also the "Home Page for the Cooluser and Cool Utilities
     for Maximus BBS Software". Rather than write a piece about this
     page, here's a cut and paste from the page, about the BBS:

     ----- Cut
     Country BBS Home Page

     Welcome to Country BBS Home Page!

     (New Version) of Cooluser V1.61, click on here to download it.

     Bookmark our new address :- http://www.fan.net.au/~allround.

        Home Page for the Cooluser and Cool Utilities for Maximus BBS
        Software. The BBS Computer runs under OS/2 Warp v4.0.
        All new users now get 60mins online with unlimited Kb Download.
        Access to FidoNet Echos plus
        access to the CD's online.(New!)
        Open 24 Hours, 7 Days a week.
        Phone Numbers:

                    Within Australia                         International
      BBS (Line 1)
                    (07) 5547 7184                          (61) 7554 7184

        FidoNet :- 3:640/296

        Currently on-line is 5GB of Windows 95, OS/2, Dos Utilities and
        BBS Software.

        On-line CD available to all users:

          * Windows 95 Disk 1 and 2
          * Night Owl 9 and 20
          * Software Vault
          * So Much Shareware 3
          * Shareware Heaven 3.
     ----- Cut

     There are also links for OS/2, Windows, BBS Software and other
     FIDONEWS 17-06               Page 14                   7 Feb 2000


     places. Of course, there is a guest book. :)  The hit counter seemed
     to be missing. :( The page is a member of a "Web Ring" as well.

     I like this page because the information is "up front". You don't
     have to look through a bunch of pages to find what kind of software
     is being used, what's on the BBS and other information that might be
     of interest to someone looking for a BBS home.

     If you're in Australia, or anywhere else for that matter, check this
     page out.


     -----------------------------------------------------------------

     FIDONEWS 17-06               Page 15                   7 Feb 2000


     =================================================================
                                 NET HUMOR
     =================================================================

                          Bad  Boys  in  trouble...

     A couple had two little boys, ages 8 and 10, who were excessively
     mischievous.   They were always getting into trouble and their
     parents knew that, if any mischief occurred in their town, their
     sons were probably involved.

     The boys' mother heard that a clergyman in town had been successful
     in disciplining children, so she asked him if he would speak with
     her boys.

     The clergyman agreed, but asked to see them individually.    The
     mother sent her 8 year old in the morning and was going to send the
     10 year old in the afternoon.

     The 8 year old went into the clergyman's office and the clergyman, a
     huge man with a booming voice, sat the younger boy down and asked
     him sternly, "Where is God!?"

     The boy's mouth dropped open, but he made no response, sitting there
     with his mouth hanging open, wide-eyed.  So the clergyman repeated
     the question in an even sterner tone, "Where is God!!?"   Again the
     boy made no attempt to answer.   So the clergyman raised his voice
     even more and shook his finger in the boy's face and bellowed,
     "Where is God?"

     The boy screamed and bolted from the room, ran directly home and
     dove into his closet, slamming the door behind him.

     When his older brother found him in the closet, he asked, "What
     happened?"

     The younger brother, gasping for breath, replied, "We are in BIG
     trouble this time, dude.   God is missing -- and they think WE did
     it!!"


     -----------------------------------------------------------------

                                 New Position
                               Thanks to Ol'WDB

     After hearing a couple's complaints that their intimate life wasn't
     what it used to be, the sex counselor suggested they vary their
     position.

     "For example," he suggested, "you might try the wheelbarrow.  Lift
     her legs from behind and off you go."

     The eager husband was all for trying this new idea as soon as they
     got home.

     FIDONEWS 17-06               Page 16                   7 Feb 2000


     "Well, okay," the hesitant wife agreed, "but on two conditions.
     First, if it hurts, you will stop right away, and second..." she
     continued, "you have to promise we won't go past my mother's house."


     -----------------------------------------------------------------

     FIDONEWS 17-06               Page 17                   7 Feb 2000


     =================================================================
                              COMIX IN ASCII
     =================================================================

                                    ________________________
                           (__)    /                        \
                           (oo)   (    Udderly Cool Cows!    )
                    /-------\/  --'\________________________/
                   / |     ||
                  *  ||----||
                     ^^    ^^
                      Cow



                          __                       o oo o
                         (__)                       \||/
                         (__)                       (__)
                         (oo)                       (oo)
                  /-------\/                 /-------\/
                 / |     ||                 / |     ||
                *  ||----||                *  ||----||
                   ^^    ^^                   ^^    ^^
               East Indian Cow               Injun Cow


                                                     (__)
                                                     (oo)
                                                      \/
                     (__)                             ||
                     ($$)                             ||
              /-------\/                              ||
             / | IRS ||                               ||
            *  ||----||                       /------- /
               ^^    ^^                      / |     ||
            Tax Accowntant                  *  ||----||
                                               ^^    ^^
                                               Cowraffe


     -----------------------------------------------------------------

     FIDONEWS 17-06               Page 18                   7 Feb 2000


     =================================================================
                               INTERNET INFO
     =================================================================


     ! = New entries this week
     ? = not responding
     ?? = unknown content, doesn't look like fidonet

                       . -- -- -- -- --- -- -- -- -- .
                       |    FIDONET-RELATED SITES    |
                       ` -- -- -- -- --- -- -- -- -- '
                          Last update:  Jan 15, 2000

     FidoNet
     Homepage:     http://www.fidonet.org
     FidoNews:     http://www.fidonews.org   [HTML]
                   ftp://ftp.nwstar.com/fidonet/fidonews/
                   ftp://ftp.sstar.com/fidonet/fnews/
     Echomail links: http://www.osirusoft.com/fidoip.html
     SDS Files:    http://fidobbs.dk/download (Web Access to SDS)
     FTSC page:    http://www.ftsc.org/
     General:      http://owls.com/~jerrys/fidonet.html
     List server:
         http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/fidonet-discussion

     Zone 1:       http://www.z1.fidonet.org
       Region 10:  http://www.psnw.com/~net205/region10.html
                   http://www.tnl-online.com/andy/rgn10.htm
         Net 103:  http://www.webworldinc.com/club103/
         Net 203:  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8687/net203index.html
       Region 11:  http://oeonline.com/~garyg/region11/
        Net 2410:  http://oeonline.com/~garyg/net2410/
       Region 12:  http://sparkys.dyndns.org
       Region 13:  http://www.net264.org/r13.htm
         Net 264:  http://www.net264.org/
         Net 275:  http://www.homershut.net/~mahoover/net275/
       Region 14:
         Net 282:  http://www.rxn.com/~net282/
       Region 15:  <vacant>
       Region 16:  <vacant>
       Region 17:  http://www.nwstar.com/~region17/
       Region 18:  http://techshop.pdn.net/fido/

       Region 19:  <Vacant>
         Net 124:  http://www.startext.net/np/net124
                   http://texoma.net/~flv
         Net 130:  http://www.startext.net/homes/net130
         Net 393:  http://www.chatter.com/~wb/
     Zone 1 Elist  http://members.xoom.com/echolist/

     Zone 2:       http://www.z2.fidonet.org
                   ftp://ftp.sstar.com/fidonet/zone2 (Z2 nodelists etc.)
       Region 20:  http://www.fidonet.pp.se (in Swedish)
       Region 23:  http://www.fido.dk (in Danish)

     FIDONEWS 17-06               Page 19                   7 Feb 2000


       Region 24:  http://www.swb.de/personal/flop/gatebau.html (German)
         Fido-IP:  http://home.nrh.de/fido/ (English/German)
       Region 25:  http://www.literary.freeserve.co.uk/net2502/
       Region 26:  http://www.nemesis.ie
          REC 26:  http://www.nrgsys.com/orb
       Region 27:  http://telematique.org/ft/r27.htm
       Region 29:  http://www.rtfm.be/fidonet/  (French)
       Region 30:  http://www.fidonet.ch  (German)
     ? Region 33:  http://www.fidoitalia.net  (Italian)
       Region 34:  http://www.pobox.com/cnb/r34.htm  (Spanish)
           REC34:  http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/4552/
       Region 36:  http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/7207/
       Region 38:  http://public.st.carnet.hr/~blagi/bbs/adriam.html
       Region 41:  http://www.fidonet.gr (Greek/English)
       Region 42:  http://www.fido.cz
     !     Net422:  http://www.fido.sk (Slovak/English)
       Region 50:  http://www.fido7.com/  (Russian)
        Net 5010:  http://fido.tu-chel.ac.ru/  (Russian)
        Net 5015:  http://www.fido.nnov.ru/  (Russian)
        Net 5030:  http://kenga.ru/fido/  (Russian & English)
        Net 5049:  http://www.n5049.z2.fidonet.org  (English/Russian)
     ??  Net 5085:  http://www.fidonet.uz/ (Russian)

     Zone 3:       http://www.z3.fidonet.org

     Zone 4:
       Region 80:  http://fidobrasil.8m.com  (Portuguese)
       Region 90:
         Net 904:  http://members.tripod.com/~net904 (Spanish)

     Zone 5:       http://www.eastcape.co.za/fidonet/

     Zone 6:       http://www.z6.fidonet.org
       Region 65:  http://www.cfido.com/fidonet/cfidochina.html
                   (Chinese)


                          Fidonet Via Internet Hubs

     See also: http://www.osirusoft.com/fidoip.html

     a @ preceding an individual's name implies a virtual email
     address. The email is translated as follows
     firstlast@osirusoft.com will automatically route to the
     appropriate individual's email.  Anyone in this list will
     also receive routed notice of this feature.  In my case, it
     would still be joejared@osirusoft.com, but you get the idea.

     Also, as information is provided to me, I will be adding a
     latency field to each node, which is defined as the maximum
     time between when the message is received, and when it is
     sent on to other nodes, or available to be sent onward,
     defined in minutes. A latency of ! implies that there is an
     immediate response, and an attempt to deliver immediately
     after processing, or a "MinuteMail System", as it were.

     FIDONEWS 17-06               Page 20                   7 Feb 2000


                v-email flag firstnamelastname@osirusoft.com
                | email address or
     Node#      | Operator          | Facilities (*) | Speed,| Basic Rate
                |                   |                |latency|
     -----------+-------------------+----------------+-------+------------
     Zone 1     |                   |                |       |
       10/3     @ Brenda Donovan    | FTP,UUE,BinkP  | 384K,30| n/c
       10/345   @ Todd Cochrane     | FTP,BinkP,VMOT | T1,!  | n/c
       12/12    @ Ken Wilson        | FTP            | T1    | $24mo.
       13/25    @ Jim Balcom        | FTP            | 56k   | $20mo.
      103/5     @ Mark Luetger      | BinkP          | 384k,!| n/c
      103/153   @ Michael Box       | BinkP          | aDSL,!| n/c
      103/301   @ Joe Jared         | BinkP,FTP      | aDSL,!| n/c
      103/401   @ Warren Bonner     | BinkP          | aDSL,!| n/c
      105/8     | Russ Johnson      | FTP,BinkP,VMoT | 384k  | n/c
      105/72    @ Larry James       | FTP            | aDSL  | $50/yr
      106/1     @ Matt Bedynek      | BinkP, FTP     | DS-3,5| $5/$15 mo
      106/6018  | Lawrence Garvin   | FTP, VMoT      | aDSL,60| n/c
      107/453   @ Jeffrey Estevez| FTP,BinkP,VMoT,UUE| 56k,60| $10 mo.
      140/1     @ Bob Seaborn       | FTP,BinkP      | T3,30 | $5/$16
      167/133   | Stephen Monteith  | BinkP          | 128k+ | n/c
      211/417   @ Korombos          | BinkP,UUE,FTP  | T1    | n/c
      218/109   @ Matt Munson       | BinkP,UUE      | 33.6k | n/c
      244/2     | Kari Suomela   | FTP,VMoT,BinkP,UUE| T1,!  | $25.00/mo
      246/160   @ Mason Vye         | FTP, UUE       | 56K   | n/c
      271/140   @ Tom Barstow       | UUE,FTP        | T1    | n/c
      280/169   | Brian Greenstreet | FTP            | 33.6  | $2mo.
      342/3     @ Richard Dodsworth | BinkP,FTP      | 128K+ | n/c
      395/670   | Arthur Stark      | BinkD,FTP      | 128k  | n/c
      396/1     @ John Souvestre    | FTP,VMoT       | T1,10 | $5/mo
      396/45    | Marc Lewis        | UUE            | 33.6  | $26/yr
     2604/104   @ Jim Mclaughlin    | FTP,VMoT,UUE   | 33.6  | $1mo
     2613/404   @ David Moufarrege  | BinkP,FTP,VMoT | 128k+,!| n/c
     2624/306   @ David Calafrancesco  | VMoT        | 33.6  | n/c
     3613/2     @ jyates@bsdi.ldl.net | UUE            | 28.8  | n/c
     3632/84    | Robert Todd    |FTP,VMoT,UUE,BinkP | 57.6k | n/c
     3639/93    @ Ross Cassell      | FTP, BinkP     |128K+,!| n/c
     3651/9     @ Jerry Gause       | FTP,VMoT       | 33.6  | $3/$6
     --------------------------------------------------------------
     Zone 2     |
       20/11    | Henrik Lindhe     | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
       31/1     | Gabriel Plutzar   | BinkP          | T1+   | n/c
      203/600   | Mikael Karlsson   | UUE            | 64k   | n/c
      221/360   @ Tommi Koivula     | BinkP,UUE      | ???   | n/c
      236/205   @ Michael Kaaber    | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
      246/2098  | Volker Imre       | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
      284/800   @ Jeroen VanDeLeur  | FTP,UUE        | 64k   | n/c
      292/626   | Filip Ruymen      | Binkp, UUE     | 128K+ | n/c
      292/2003  | Eric Vaneberck    | BinkP          | 768k  | n/c
      301/1     | Peter Witschi     | BinkP          | 768k  | n/c
      332/807   | Roberto Mascolo   | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
      335/535   @ Mario Mure        | BinkP,VMot,UUE | 64k   | n/c
      335/610   | Gino Lucrezi      | UUE            | 33.6  | n/c
      344/201   | Julio Garcia      | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
      346/3     @ Carlos Navarro    | UUE            | ???   | n/c
      382/100   | Sinisa Burina     | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
     FIDONEWS 17-06               Page 21                   7 Feb 2000


      406/555   | Ofir Michaeli &   | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
      406/555   | Marius Kaizerman  | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
      423/81    | Milos Bajer       | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
      464/4077  | Serguei Trouchelle| UUE            | 19.2  | n/c
      465/204   | Va Milushnikov    | BinkP          | 33.6k | n/c
      469/84    | Max Masyutin      | VMoT           | 256k  | n/c
      480/112   | Adam Sarapata| FTP, VMoT, UUE,BinkP| 128k  | n/c
     2411/413   @ Dennis Dittrich   | UUE,BinkP      | 64k   | n/c
     2446/301   | Lothar Behet | BinkP,VMoT,UUE,FTP  | 64K   | n/c
     2474/275   | Christian Emig    | UUE            | 64k   | unkn
     5030/115   | Andrey Podkolzin  | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
     5100/8     | Egons Bush        | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
     5020/1159  | Gennady Kudryashoff | UUE          | 33.6  | n/c
     --------------------------------------------------------------
     Zone 3
      633/260   @ Malcolm Miles     | FTP,BinkP      | 64K   | n/c
      640/954   | Rick Van Ruth     | FTP,VMot,UUE,BinkP| 56K| n/c
      774/605   @ Barry Blackford|BinkP,VMoT:10023,ifcico,FTP |33.6| n/c

     --------------------------------------------------------------
     Zone 4
      905/100   | Fabian Gervan     | VMoT,UUE,BinkP | 128k  | n/c
      902/18    | Javier Tejedor    | UUE            | 33,6  | n/c

     --
     * FTP   = Internet File Transfer Protocol
     * VMoT  = Virtual Mailer over Telnet (various)
     * UUE   = uuencode<->email type transfers
     * BinkP = front end mailer for TCPIP networks

     ----------------------------------------------
     Fidonet oriented news servers

     news.osirusoft.com
     news.tardis.net

     Fidonet oriented chat rooms.

     room #fidonet  5PM (PDT 11AM GMT) Sundays
     irc.isonline.com
     irc.killaz-r-us.com
     irc.korombos.org


     ----------------------------------------------

     Please send updates, corrections and suggestions to
     Joe Jared, 1:103/301, joejared@osirusoft.com, and
     complaints to jarhead@osirusoft.com .


     -----------------------------------------------------------------

     FIDONEWS 17-06               Page 22                   7 Feb 2000


     =================================================================
                               FIDONEWS INFO
     =================================================================

                                   Masthead

     + -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --  FIDONEWS STAFF - -- -- -- -- -- -- -- +
     |                                                                |
     | Editor:     Douglas Myers, 1:270/720, DougM@paonline.com       |
     | Webmaster:  Jim Barchuk, jb@fidonews.org                       |
     | Columnist:  Joe Jared, 1:103/0, jarhead@osirusoft.com          |
     |             (Fido Via Internet Hubs column)                    |
     | Columnist:  Warren D. Bonner, 1:103/401, wdbonner@pacbell.net  |
     |             (Warren uses the pen name "Ol'WDB")                |
     | Humor:      Roy Reed, rcreed@juno.com                          |
     | Features:   Frank Vest, 1:124/6308.1                           |
     |                                                                |
     + -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- +

     + -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -  EDITORS EMERITI - -- -- -- -- -- -- -- +
     |                                                                |
     |       Tom Jennings, Thom Henderson, Dale Lovell, Vince         |
     |       Perriello, Tim Pozar, Sylvia Maxwell, Donald Tees,       |
     |       Christopher Baker, Zorch Frezberg, Henk Wolsink          |
     |                                                                |
     + -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- +

     "Fido", "FidoNet" and the dog-with-diskette are U.S. registered
     trademarks of Tom Jennings, P.O. Box 410923, San Francisco, CA
     94141, and are used with permission.

     Fidonews is published weekly by and for the members of Fidonet.
     Fidonews is Copyright (C) 2000 by Douglas Myers, though authors
     retain rights to their contributed articles.  Opinion expressed by
     the authors is strictly their own.  Noncommercial duplication and
     distribution within Fidonet is encouraged.  Authors are encouraged
     to send their articles in ASCII text to Douglas Myers at one of his
     addresses above.

     The weekly edition of Fidonews is distributed through the file area
     FIDONEWS, and is published as echomail in the echo FIDONEWS.  These
     sources are normally available through your Network Coordinator.
     The current and past issues are also available from the following
     sources:

     + -- -- -- -- -- -- -  FIDONEWS AVAILABILITY - -- -- -- -- -- -- +
     |                                                                |
     |         Freq FIDONEWS @ 1:270/720, 1:140/1, or 1:396/1         |
     |         ftp://ftp.sstar.com/fidonet/fnews/                     |
     |         ftp://ftp.nwstar.com/fidonet/fidonews/                 |
     |         http://www.fidonews.org                                |
     |         email subscription: majordomo@fidonews.org             |
     |                       (subject: help   body: list)             |
     |         ftp mail: ftpmail@fidonews.org (subject: help)         |
     |                                                                |
     + -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- +
     FIDONEWS 17-06               Page 23                   7 Feb 2000


     -----------------------------------------------------------------

