      F I D O N E W S         Volume 16, Number 42             18 Oct 1999 
     +----------------------------+---------------------------------------+
     |  The newsletter of the     |   ISSN 1198-4589 Published by:        |
     |    FidoNet community       |   "FidoNews"                          |
     |          _                 |   1-717-732-6820     1:270/720        |
     |         /  \               |                                       |
     |        /|oo \              |                                       |
     |       (_|  /_)             |                                       |
     |        _`@/_ \    _        |                                       |
     |       |     | \   \\       |   Editor: Douglas Myers, 1:270/720    |
     |       | (*) |  \   ))      |           DougM@paonline.com          |
     |       |__U__| /  \//       |                                       |
     |        _//|| _\   /        |                                       |
     |       (_/(_|(____/         |                                       |
     |             (jm)           |   Newspapers should have no friends.  |
     |                            |                    -- JOSEPH PULITZER |
     +----------------------------+---------------------------------------+
     


                        Table of Contents
     1. EDITORIAL  ................................................  1
        Dr. Thom and Mr... hide?  .................................  1
     2. NET HUMOR  ................................................  5
        Seat of Power  ............................................  5
     3. COMIX IN ASCII  ...........................................  6
        Trick or Treat Cows  ......................................  6
     4. NOTICES  ..................................................  7
        Future History  ...........................................  7
     5. FIDONET BY INTERNET  ......................................  8
        Fidonet-related sites  ....................................  8
        Fidonet Via Internet Hubs  ................................  9
     6. FIDONEWS INFORMATION  ..................................... 12
        Masthead  ................................................. 12
     FIDONEWS 16-42               Page 1                   18 Oct 1999


     =================================================================
                                 EDITORIAL
     =================================================================

                           Dr. Thom and Mr... hide?

     Prologue:

     Echo Holders in the Village of Fido have long relied on the
     machinery of Dr. Thom's Laboratory to protect their tenuous
     holdings.  But the Holders have long been warned that vigilance is a
     necessary price for this protection, for certain Raiders have
     studied the workings of Dr. Thom's machinery, and know when an echo
     lies unwatched.  Could the whisperings of the Elder Echo Holders
     be true... that one of the newer raiders, Mr. Tom, has gone into
     hiding rather than face the Elders who have discovered that Mr. Tom
     is the evil Alter Ego of Dr. Thom?


     Cast of Characters:

     Thom LaCosta - Thom is the operator of "The Other Robot," which
     maintains a data base of echo tags, echo moderators, and echo rules
     as used in Zone 1.  Thom is also nodelisted as Echolist @ 1:1/21 in
     recognition that his echolist is considered definitive (i.e. a
     moderator listed in his echolist is considered official despite
     any claims to the contrary).  Thom received this administrative node
     number primarily because he had the only operating echolist at the
     time that Adrian Walker dropped his efforts.  Thom currently
     moderates 35 echoes himself, according to Elist 109.

     Tom Knowles - Tom is a user on Thom LaCosta's BBS who began
     moderating about 9 months ago.  In the echo MODERATOR, he has become
     a controversial figure, known mostly for his authoritarian style of
     moderation.  He invites critics of his moderation to leave the echo
     and maintains that echo participants have no say in the tone he sets
     for the echo.  Tom appears to be in hiding right now as he is
     accused of being, in reality, Thom LaCosta. Tom is currently listed
     as moderator for seven echoes.

     Ruth Argust - Ruth is a famous Super-Bitch, best known for moving
     her net from Region 10 to Region 12 when Bob Kohl threatened to
     dissolve her net.  Ruth has noted that Tom seems to have unusual
     access to Thom's equipment, including special access to the elist
     robot and access to Timed, a sysop editor which only operates
     locally on a BBS.  Ruth draws her evidence from the very posts of
     Tom Knowles in the MODERATOR conference, so fabrication is out of
     the question, and maintains that the most likely explanation is that
     Tom Knowles and Thom LaCosta are one and the same.  Neither Thom nor
     Tom have addressed this accusation to date.  Ruth moderates nine
     echoes on Fidonet.

     Bobby Queen - Bobby has never met an echo he doesn't like, as
     evidenced by the fact that he is currently listed as moderator for
     133 echoes.  Bobby operates primarily by searching the echolist for
     echoes about to expire, either because the moderator forgot or is no
     FIDONEWS 16-42               Page 2                   18 Oct 1999


     longer active.  He acquires the echoes by emailing a moderator
     update immediately after the echo expires, thereby causing the robot
     to accept his update as a new listing.  Bobby was surprised that Tom
     Knowles was able to elist some of the echoes he was after, and notes
     that this would be possible if Thom LaCosta made the changes before
     the expired listings were available to the public.

     Bob Moravsik - Bob has nothing to do with what's going on here, but
     I thought I'd give him honorable mention because his reputation as
     an "echo raider" exceeds Bobby's.  Bob, however, only has 20 echoes
     listed... he's just managed to raise more hell with what he has :)


     The Story:

     The history of Tom Knowles actually comes in two parts.  First, his
     echo acquisitions as detailed by Bobby Queen recently in a public
     post:

     ---------------
     Elist902  Tom Knowles first appeared and elisted the following
     echos...   BGFAX
                ECHOPOL
                MODERATOR

     I had been querying the robot that month and all 3 were in my list of
     ones to update.

     Then he took a break because he might have thought that someone might
     figure out what was going on.  Then he reappeared...

     Elist907  Tom Knowles reappeared and elisted the following
     echos...   REC
                ZEC

     Again I had been querying the robot and those 2 were on my list also.
     :)

     Elist909   He reappeared and this time elisted the following 3
     echos...   FIDONET
                JUNO
                Z1_BACKBONE

     Again all 3 were on my queries that month and all 3 were updated on
     the 1st.  That is one thing about Tom Knowles that you will notice.
     Also that month his updates showed up funny on the eladd.txt in that
     months packet. :)

     Elist910 or as he put it out elist109  He again reappeared and elisted
     the echo...   WORDSTAR
     ---------------

     Of course, Tom's ability to successfully raid echoes does not
     conclusively prove that he's an alter ego of Thom LaCosta, nor even
     that Thom is working in concert with him.  However, there are two
     eye-raising points to be drawn from this record.
     FIDONEWS 16-42               Page 3                   18 Oct 1999


     Anyone who can beat Bobby Queen to an expired echo listing has to be
     noted as a master of the technique.  And yet, Tom Knowles was never
     heard from prior to his first elisting.

     And a look at the echoes he raided indicates an uncommon interest in
     administrative echoes, which are normally of zero interest to
     non-sysops.

     How so odd that a new face should appear from nowhere and show
     mastery of techniques which would be known to Thom LaCosta and gain
     control of echoes which might be of interest to Thom LaCosta...


     The second part of the story focuses on Tom's moderation of the
     MODERATOR echo.  There is actually more in the postings of Tom
     Knowles to suggest a common identity with Thom LaCosta than in the
     history of his echo acquisitions.  In reading of the posts of the
     last few weeks, I am struck as to the similarities in writing style
     between Thom and Tom.  Tom likes to quote the rules he has written
     as totally sufficient and completely justified on his own
     authority... Thom takes the same attitude in his activities.  Tom
     likes to promote the concept of "voting with your feet" as the
     ultimate recourse - Thom has used the same arguments in the past.
     Tom uses an unusual "slashed" style in his sentences which I've
     noted in Thom's posting in the past.  It goes something like this:
     "If you don't agree with/can abide by the rules..."

     None of these observations are conclusive, but there's enough
     coincidence here to raise an eyebrow.

     Then there are events which just don't make sense unless one
     suspects a ruse.  Tom posts from Thom's BBS, and yet several people
     report that there is no Tom Knowles listed in the Baltimore area.
     Could Tom be posting under an alias... or telenetting in from some
     other location?  Is Thom's BBS even telenettable?

     Tom has Thom post the echo rules in his behalf, ostensibly because
     he can't figure out how to upload a text file to the BBS.  But is it
     logical to believe that a user who shows a complete command of
     elisting procedures and may even have access to Thom's operating
     system could be too clueless to upload a text file?  Even if Thom's
     BBS doesn't support this capability, terminal programs such as
     Telemate can accomplish this.

     Of course, none of these speculations are conclusive... but one item
     seems conclusive to this editor... as posted by Ruth Argust in the
     MODERATOR echo:

     ---------------
     Tom Knowles wrote in a message to C.A. Klingel:

      TK> @MSGID: 1:261/1352.0 80315d81
      TK> @REPLY: 1:2410/351.0 380094be
      TK> @PID: timEd 1.10+
      TK> @TID: GE 1.11+
      TK> @CHRS: IBMPC 2
     FIDONEWS 16-42               Page 4                   18 Oct 1999


     Hey I didn't know that a user on a BBS could use TimEd! Wow, news to
     me. How do you have that configured since it's impossible!

     TimEd can only be used locally. Did you know that Thom LaCosta also
     uses TimEd to post under the same node number?

     Watch it, neither of you have updated for the Y2K bug.

     I think that the jig is up.

                                      *ruth*
     ---------------

     Though one echo participant pointed out that a remote user could
     conceivably use TimEd through a Doorway program, this is unlikely.
     First, most Doorway programs launch a secondary copy of COMMAND.COM
     to give a remote user access to MSDOS while the BBS is still
     running.  This secondary copy of COMMAND.COM has much less
     conventional memory available to it than is required by many
     programs, so it may not even be possible to run TimEd through such a
     program.  Secondly, giving a remote user access to MSDOS enables
     them to do such things as formatting the hard drive, downloading the
     user passwords, installing themselves as sysop... in other words,
     Thom would be unlikely to give such access to anyone unless his BBS
     security is incredibly lax.  It's more likely that Tom Knowles was
     sitting at the keyboard of Thom's system in order to use TimEd to
     quote a message to C. A. Klingel... a likely event if, indeed, Thom
     and Tom are actually the same person.


     Epilogue:

     The most likely outcome of this story is a weakening of the echolist
     system as a means of identifying the actual moderator of a system.
     Certainly, Tom Knowles authority as a moderator is non-existent by
     now, and Thom's credibility as echolist keeper is diminished by the
     knowledge that he'll use his position for the trivial acquisition of
     echoes.  At this point, it almost doesn't matter whether Thom posts
     on the subject - his silence won't cause the growing conviction that
     he posed as Tom Knowles to diminish.  The evidence supporting this
     seems too conclusive.


     -----------------------------------------------------------------

     FIDONEWS 16-42               Page 5                   18 Oct 1999


     =================================================================
                                 NET HUMOR
     =================================================================

                                Seat of Power
                             (Thanks to Roy Reed)

         Bill Clinton, Hillary, and Al were in a plane crash, and
      ascended to heaven. They appeared in a large white room in which
      God was sitting on a great, white throne.

        God addresses Al first.

        "Al, what do you believe in?"

        "Well I believe that the combustion engine is evil and that we
      need to save the world from CFC's and if any more freon is used,
      the whole world will become a greenhouse, killing all humanity"

        God thinks for a minute and says "Okay, that's acceptable, come
      and sit at my left."

        God then addresses Bill.

        "Bill, what do you believe in ?"

        Bill replies; "Well, I believe in power to the people, I think
      people should be able to make their own choices about things and
      that no one should be able to tell someone else what to do ."

        God thinks for a second and says" Okay, that sounds good, come
      and sit at my right."

        God finally addresses Hillary; "Hillary, what do you believe
        in?".

        Hillary replies, " I believe you're in my chair ."


     -----------------------------------------------------------------

     FIDONEWS 16-42               Page 6                   18 Oct 1999


     =================================================================
                              COMIX IN ASCII
     =================================================================


                Trick or Treat             ( ** )
                Cows...                    |e  e|
                                            \  / ____*===*______*
                         (__)                OO      * Givenchy *\
                         |oo|                  |    *     *    *  \
                  /----|-|__|-|               /****************    *
                 / |     ||                  //  *************
                *  ||----||                 ||    ||     \_/||
                   ^^    ^^                 ||    ||     || ||
                 Frankenstein's             v|    v|     v| v|
                 Moonster                      Haute Cowture


     -----------------------------------------------------------------

     FIDONEWS 16-42               Page 7                   18 Oct 1999


     =================================================================
                                  NOTICES
     =================================================================


                       Future History

       26 Oct 1999
          Thirty years from release Abbey Road album by the Beatles.

       31 Dec 1999
          Hogmanay, Scotland. The New Year that can't be missed.

        1 Jan 2000
          The 20th Century, C.E., is still taking place thru 31 Dec.

        1 Jun 2000
          EXPO 2000 World Exposition in Hannover (Germany) opens.

       15 Sep 2000
          Sydney (Australia) Summer Olympiad opens.

       21 Sep 2000
          10 years of FidoNet in +7 (xUSSR)

        1 Jan 2001
          This is the actual start of the new millennium, C.E.

       -- If YOU have something which you would like to see in this
             Future History, please send a note to the FidoNews Editor.

     -----------------------------------------------------------------

     FIDONEWS 16-42               Page 8                   18 Oct 1999


     =================================================================
                            FIDONET BY INTERNET
     =================================================================

                       . -- -- -- -- --- -- -- -- -- .
                       |    FIDONET-RELATED SITES    |
                       ` -- -- -- -- --- -- -- -- -- '
                          Last update:  Oct 8, 1999

     FidoNet
     Homepage:     http://www.fidonet.org
     FidoNews:     http://www.fidonews.org   [HTML]
                   ftp://sstar.com/fidonet/fnews/
     WWW sources:  http://travel.to/fidonet/
     FTSC page:    http://www.ftsc.org/
     General:      http://owls.com/~jerrys/fidonet.html
     List server:  http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/fidonet-discussion

     Zone 1:       http://www.z1.fidonet.org
       Region 10:  http://www.psnw.com/~net205/region10.html
                   http://www.tnl-online.com/andy/rgn10.htm
         Net 103:  http://www.webworldinc.com/club103/
       Region 11:  http://oeonline.com/~garyg/region11/
       Region 13:  http://www.net264.org/r13.htm
         Net 264:  http://www.net264.org/
       Region 14:
         Net 282:  http://www.rxn.com/~net282/
       Region 17:  http://www.nwstar.com/~region17/
       Region 18:  http://techshop.pdn.net/fido/
       Region 19:  http://members.home.net/hbh3/r19
         Net 124:  http://www.startext.net/np/net124
                   http://texoma.net/~flv
         Net 130:  http://www.startext.net/homes/net130
         Net 393:  http://www.chatter.com/~wb/
     Zone 1 Elist  http://members.xoom.com/echolist/

     Zone 2:       http://www.z2.fidonet.org
       Region 20:  http://www.fidonet.pp.se (in Swedish)
       Region 23:  http://www.fido.dk (in Danish)
       Region 24:  http://www.swb.de/personal/flop/gatebau.html (German)
         Fido-IP:  http://home.nrh.de/fido/ (English/German)
       Region 25:  http://www.literary.freeserve.co.uk/net2502/
       Region 26:  http://www.nemesis.ie
          REC 26:  http://www.nrgsys.com/orb
       Region 27:  http://telematique.org/ft/r27.htm
       Region 29:  http://www.rtfm.be/fidonet/  (French)
       Region 30:  http://www.fidonet.ch  (German)
       Region 33:  http://www.fidoitalia.net  (Italian)
       Region 34:  http://www.pobox.com/cnb/r34.htm  (Spanish)
           REC34:  http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/4552/
       Region 36:  http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/7207/
       Region 38:  http://public.st.carnet.hr/~blagi/bbs/adriam.html
       Region 41:  http://www.fidonet.gr (Greek/English)
       Region 42:  http://www.fido.cz
       Region 47:  http://www.autostop.lt (Lithuanian)
       Region 50:  http://www.fido7.com/  (Russian)
     FIDONEWS 16-42               Page 9                   18 Oct 1999


        Net 5010:  http://fido.tu-chel.ac.ru/  (Russian)
        Net 5015:  http://www.fido.nnov.ru/  (Russian)
        Net 5030:  http://kenga.ru/fido/  (Russian & English)
        Net 5085:  http://www.fidonet.uz/ (Russian)  (No netscape)

     Zone 3:       http://www.z3.fidonet.org

     Zone 4:
       Region 80:  http://fidobrasil.8m.com  (Portuguese)
       Region 90:
         Net 904:  http://members.tripod.com/~net904 (Spanish)

     Zone 5:       http://www.eastcape.co.za/fidonet/

     Zone 6:       http://www.z6.fidonet.org
       Region 65:  http://www.cfido.com/fidonet/cfidochina.html
                   (Chinese)
     ----------------------------------------------

     Please send updates, corrections and suggestions to
     Joe Jared, 1:103/301, joejared@osirusoft.com, and
     complaints to jarhead@osirusoft.com .


     -----------------------------------------------------------------

      Last Updated: 10/11/1999

                          Fidonet Via Internet Hubs

      A new feature has been added to this list.

     a @ preceding an individual's name implies a virtual email
     address. The email is translated as follows
     firstlast@osirusoft.com will automatically route to the
     appropriate individual's email.  Anyone in this list will
     also receive routed notice of this feature.  In my case, it
     would still be joejared@osirusoft.com, but you get the idea.

                v-email flag firstnamelastname@osirusoft.com
     Node#      | Operator          | Facilities (*) | Speed | Basic Rate
     -----------+-------------------+----------------+-------+------------
     Zone 1     |                   |                |       |
       10/3     @ Brenda Donovan    | FTP,UUE,BinkP  | T1?   | $??/$10
       12/12    | Ken Wilson        | FTP            | T1    | $24mo.
       13/25    @ Jim Balcom        | FTP            | 56k   | $20mo.
      103/301   @ Joe Jared         | BinkP          | aDSL  | n/c
      105/8     | Russ Johnson      | FTP,BinkP,VMoT | 384k  | n/c
      105/72    @ Larry James       | FTP            | aDSL  | $5/$15 mo.
      106/1     @ Matt Bedynek      | BinkP, FTP     | 128k  | n/c
      106/6018  | Lawrence Garvin   | FTP, VMoT      | 64k   | $5/mo
      140/1     @ Bob Seaborn       | FTP            | T3    | $5/$16
      167/133   | Stephen Monteith  | BinkP          | 128k+ | n/c
      211/417   @ Korombos          | BinkD,UUE,FTP  | T1    | n/c
      270/101   @ George Peace      | FTP            | 6mbps | $20mo.
      271/140   | Tom Barstow       | UUE            | T1    | n/c
     FIDONEWS 16-42               Page 10                  18 Oct 1999


      280/169   | Brian Greenstreet | FTP            | 33.6  | $2mo.
      342/3     | Richard Dodsworth | BinkP,FTP      | 128K+ | n/c
      345/0     @ Todd Cochrane     | FTP            | T1    | n/c
      396/1     @ John Souvestre    | FTP,VMoT       | T1    | $10/mo
      396/45    | Marc Lewis        | UUE            | 33.6  | $26/yr
     2401/305   | Peter Rocca       | FTP,UUE        | T1    | unkn
     2424/101   | Kari Suomela   | FTP,VMoT,BinkP,UUE| T1    | n/c
     2604/104   | Jim Mclaughlin    | FTP,VMoT,UUE   | 33.6  | $1mo
     2613/404   @ David Moufarrege  | BinkP,FTP,VMoT | 128k+ | n/c
     2624/306   @ D. Calafrancesco  | VMoT           | 33.6  | n/c
     3632/84    | Robert Todd    |FTP,VMoT,UUE,BinkP | 57.6k | n/c
     3639/93    | Ross Cassell      | FTP, BinkP     | 128K+ | n/c
     3651/9     | Jerry Gause       | FTP,VMoT       | 33.6  | $3/$6
     3803/1     @ Ben Ritchey       | UUE            | 56k   | n/c
     --------------------------------------------------------------
     Zone 2     |
       20/11    | Henrik Lindhe     | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
       23/999   | Michael Kaaber    | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
       31/1     | Gabriel Plutzar   | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
      203/600   | Mikael Karlsson   | UUE            | 64k   | n/c
      221/360   | Tommi Koivula     | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
      246/2098  | Volker Imre       | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
      284/800   | Jeroen VanDeLeur  | FTP,UUE        | 64k   | n/c
      292/626   | Filip Ruymen      | Binkp, UUE     | 128K+ | n/c
      292/2003  | Eric Vaneberck    | BinkP          | 768k  | n/c

      301/1     | Peter Witschi     | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
      332/807   | Roberto Mascolo   | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
      335/535   @ Mario Mure        | BinkP,VMot,UUE | 64k   | n/c
      335/610   | Gino Lucrezi      | UUE            | 33.6  | n/c
      344/201   | Julio Garcia      | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
      346/3     @ Carlos Navarro    | UUE            | ???   | n/c
      382/100   | Sinisa Burina     | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
      406/555   | Marius Kaizerman  | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
      406/555   | Ofir Michaeli &   | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
      423/81    | Milos Bajer       | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
      464/4077  | Serguei Trouchelle| UUE            | 19.2  | n/c
      465/204   | Va Milushnikov    | BinkP          | 33.6k | n/c
      469/84    | Max Masyutin      | VMoT           | 256k  | n/c
      480/112   | Adam Sarapata| FTP, VMoT, UUE,BinkP| 128k  | n/c
     2411/413   @ Dennis Dittrich   | UUE,BinkP      | 64k   | n/c
     2446/301   | Lothar Behet | BinkP,VMoT,UUE,FTP  | 64K   | n/c
     2474/275   | Christian Emig    | UUE            | 64k   | unkn
     5030/115   | Andrey Podkolzin  | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
     5100/8     | Egons Bush        | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
     5020/1159  | Gennady Kudryashoff | UUE          | 33.6  | n/c
     --------------------------------------------------------------
     Zone 3
      633/260   | Malcolm Miles     | FTP,BinkP      | 64K   | n/c
      640/954   | Rick Van Ruth     | FTP,VMot,UUE,BinkP| 56K| n/c
      774/605 | Barry Blackford|BinkP,VMoT:10023,ifcico,FTP |33.6| n/c

     --------------------------------------------------------------
     Zone 4
      905/100   | Fabian Gervan     | VMoT,UUE,BinkP | 128k  | n/c
      902/18    | Javier Tejedor    | UUE            | 33,6  | n/c
     FIDONEWS 16-42               Page 11                  18 Oct 1999


     --
     * FTP   = Internet File Transfer Protocol
     * VMoT  = Virtual Mailer over Telnet (various)
     * UUE   = uuencode<->email type transfers
     * BinkP = front end mailer for TCPIP networks


     -----------------------------------------------------------------

     FIDONEWS 16-42               Page 12                  18 Oct 1999


     =================================================================
                           FIDONEWS INFORMATION
     =================================================================

                              FIDONEWS MASTHEAD

     Fidonews Staff:
       Editor: Douglas Myers, 1:270/720, DougM@paonline.com
       Webmaster:  Jim Barchuk, jb@fidonews.org
       Columnist:  Joe Jared, 1:103/0, jarhead@osirusoft.com
                   (Fido Via Internet Hubs column)
       Editors Emeriti: Tom Jennings, Thom Henderson, Dale Lovell,
                        Vince Perriello, Tim Pozar, Sylvia Maxwell,
                        Donald Tees, Christopher Baker, Zorch Frezberg,
                        Henk Wolsink

         ------------------------------------------------------

     FidoNews is published weekly by and for the members of the FIDONET
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     FIDONEWS 16-42               Page 13                  18 Oct 1999


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     with a Subject line of: help

     FTPMail will immediately send a reply containing details and
     instructions. When you actually make a file request, FTPMail will
     respond in three stages. You find a link for this process on
     http://www.fidonews.org/ftpmail/.

                                    *=*=*

     You can read the current FidoNews Issue in HTML format at:

                        http://www.fidonews.org

     and    http://www.fidonet.dynip.com/public/fidonews/default.htm

     and in the FIDONEWS echo.

                            =*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=

     SUBMISSIONS: You are encouraged to submit articles for publication
     in FidoNews.  In general, send your articles in ASCII (text) format
     via netmail or email to the addresses listed above for the editor.
     The exact article submission requirements for the Fidonews software
     are contained in the file ARTSPEC.DOC, available from most Fidonet
     hubs.  However, you should concentrate on what you wish to say, as
     the editor will normally take care of the technical requirements.

     "Fido", "FidoNet" and the dog-with-diskette are U.S. registered
     trademarks of Tom Jennings, P.O. Box 410923, San Francisco, CA 94141,
     and are used with permission.

                  "Disagreement is actually necessary,
                   or we'd all have to get in fights
     FIDONEWS 16-42               Page 14                  18 Oct 1999


                   or something to amuse ourselves
                   and create the requisite chaos."
                                     -Tom Jennings

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