      F I D O N E W S         Volume 16, Number 05         1 February 1999
     +----------------------------+---------------------------------------+
     |  The newsletter of the     |   ISSN 1198-4589 Published by:        |
     |    FidoNet community       |   "FidoNews"                          |
     |          _                 |        +27-41-515-913    [5:5/23]     |
     |         /  \               |                                       |
     |        /|oo \              |                                       |
     |       (_|  /_)             |                                       |
     |        _`@/_ \    _        |                                       |
     |       |     | \   \\       |   Editor:                             |
     |       | (*) |  \   ))      |        Henk Wolsink    5:7104/2       |
     |       |__U__| /  \//       |                                       |
     |        _//|| _\   /        |                                       |
     |       (_/(_|(____/         |                                       |
     |             (jm)           |   Newspapers should have no friends.  |
     |                            |                    -- JOSEPH PULITZER |
     +----------------------------+---------------------------------------+
     |             Submission address: FidoNews Editor 5:5/23             |
     +--------------------------------------------------------------------+
     |  MORE addresses:                                                   |
     |                                                                    |
     |    submissions=> editor@fidonews.org                               |
     |                  hwolsink@catpe.alt.za                             |
     +--------------------------------------------------------------------+
     |    For  information,   copyrights,   article   submissions,        |
     |    obtaining copies of FidoNews or the internet gateway FAQ        |
     |    please refer to the end of this file.                           |
     +--------------------------------------------------------------------+


                        Table of Contents
     1. EDITORIAL  ................................................  1
     2. ARTICLES  .................................................  2
        Free Elections - getting your money's worth in Romania  ...  2
        New FTSC website  .........................................  4
        Grunged Echomail Deleted - Roy J. Tellason  ...............  4
     3. NOTICES  ..................................................  6
     4. FIDONET BY INTERNET  ......................................  7
     5. FIDONEWS INFORMATION  ..................................... 11
     FIDONEWS 16-05               Page 1                    8 Feb 1999


     =================================================================
                                 EDITORIAL
     =================================================================

     Greetings,

     It's nice to see, FidoNews is read and appriciated by those in far
     away places such as Northern Russia. ;-)

     Still extremely hot here in Africa with unbelievable temperatures,
     the worst or is it highest, for many a decade and not pleasant at all.

     Preparing for another business trip and will be back in time for the
     next issue.

     Enjoy.

     -----------------------------------------------------------------

     FIDONEWS 16-05               Page 2                    8 Feb 1999


     =================================================================
                                 ARTICLES
     =================================================================


     Free Elections - getting your money's worth in Romania.

                                Free Elections
                    Getting Your Money's Worth in Romania
                  Douglas Myers, 1:270/720, doug@mtdnbbs.com

     I've got to confess to some feeling of inadequecy in reporting
     events in Romania.  I'm not there, I don't really know the people
     involved, and my contact started out simply as part of a mass
     mailing.  Nonetheless, a lot of information has come through here,
     and it's too disturbing to simply ignore.

     Region 53 has recently undergone elections to determine a new
     Regional Coordinator to replace the fired Catalin Bradu.  Catalin
     was fired by Ward Dossche, Z2C, for refusing to implement Ward's
     order to reinstate the excommunicated Gabi Andrei.  Ward named
     Costin Manda as temporary R53C, charged with conducting an election
     for a permanent RC.

     Candidates in the recently concluded election were Mihai Banciu and,
     ironically, Catalin Bradu.  Catalin claimed victory with a final
     vote of 11-7, however Ward Dossche awarded the victory to Mihai
     Banciu based on a 25-13 return which included point nodes.

     Catalin is currently petitioning Bob Satti for a "zone independant"
     regional assignment, to operate his region outside the influence of
     Ward Dossche.  He has announced that the region will leave Fido and
     function as a network independant of Fido if all else fails.

     Those are the facts, as nearly as I can determine them, primarily
     derived from email and netmail from Catalin Bradu, Ward Dossche, and
     Codrut Popescu (R53C prior to Catalin).  There are many unanswered
     questions concerning appropriatness, however.

     The first concern is the appropriateness of excommunicating Gabi
     Andrei.  While it seems that he was sufficiently annoying to warrant
     complaints based on "Excessively Annoying Behavior," his own NC
     would not file such a complaint and even supported Gabri.  Is it
     appropriate that an RC will then implement excommunication?
     Granted, it was a popular move - but it was done without the consent
     of the Z2C.  Bob Satti informs me via echomail that a node is not
     normally removed from the nodelist until arguements have been heard
     at the zone level, so the excommunication appears to be procedurally
     incorrect.  However, there is a concern that nodes should not be
     forced to connect to those they find offensive.

     A second concern is the appropriateness of a ZC firing a
     popularly-elected RC.  Policy gives the ZC this power, but practice
     has been to honor elections.  Further, the Z2C has a policy of
     allowing elections... does this imply an obligation to back the
     results of such?  Ward Dossche, in email to Bob Satti with a copy to
     FIDONEWS 16-05               Page 3                    8 Feb 1999


     me, claims that Catalin was never popularly elected as RC, only as
     NC.  Codrut Popescu, who conducted the elections in question,
     explains the actual events in email to me:

     ----------------- extracted from email --------------------

         Almost a year ago I was the elected RC53 in Romania. The Network
     Coordinator position in 530 was open, so I organised elections. You
     have to know that in R53 there are two networks, 530 and 531. 530 for
     Bucharest and 531 for the rest of the country. If you still have the
     nodelists for that period you'll see that 530 was 80% of the total
     nodes number in R53. Now is over 95%.

         The candidates were Alex Sovu, Catalin Bradu and Gabi Andrei. They
     gained 8, 11 and 3 votes, respectively. It is to be mentioned that
     from these 22 votes, 2 were from 531. The NC position in 530 was so
     very important for 531 so I allowed the nodes (very few) from 531 to
     express their votes in these elections.

         So Catalin Bradu gained most of the votes. There was a big rivalry
     between Catalin and Alex, the last one was about to leave the network
     because of his failure in the elections. At the same time I was
     involved in a new position in a bank and when you're 27 years old
     there are some priorities in life. So I appointed Catalin as RC and
     Alex as NC after both of them agreed to stick together for the good of
     the network. Mr. Ward Dossche was informed about this elections at the
     end, and he agreed with the replacement. Though, he was not announced
     about this shifting in the *C hierarchy due to my retirement.

     ----------------- end extract -----------------------------

     It would appear that Ward Dossche is technically correct that
     Catalin was not specifically elected as RC, but, from Codrut's
     description of events, it seems to me that his appointment was in
     order and reflected the will of the voters.

     A third concern is the appearance that the outcome of the recent
     election was predetermined.  This appearance comes from two sources:

     1.  A netmail message from Ward Dossche to Costin Manda instructing
     him that Mihai Banciu was the winner of the election despite an
     early return which favored Catalin by about 2-1.

     2.  The inclusion of point nodes in the final vote count, despite
     the assertion that points were only permitted advisory input
     throughout the election.  Since the points essentially determined
     the election, this is a vital issue.  Ward Dossche claims in email
     that points were traditionally allowed to vote in R53 elections, but
     both Catalin Bradu and Codrut Popescu inform me that point nodes
     have never had a vote in any election until Ward included their
     totals in this most recent vote count.

     A fourth concern is the appropriateness of resolving political
     incompatibilities by entire regions leaving Fido.  Though this may
     be a mere threat, it's hardly conducive to the concerns of many that
     nodelist shrinkage must be halted somehow.  Of course, it may be the
     FIDONEWS 16-05               Page 4                    8 Feb 1999


     only way which Catalin Bradu can get the "zone independant number"
     he's asking for... by forming a new zone.  I'm not sure how Bob
     Satti can issue a "zone independant number."

     -----------------------------------------------------------------


     New FTSC website

     Hi Folks,

     The FTSC website and anonymous FTP site have new names.

     The new URL for the website is

         http://www.ftsc.org

     The anonymous FTP server is now to be found at ftp.ftsc.org

     -=-

     If you have links to the website I'd be grateful if you could update
     them.
     http://www.piglets.com/ftsc (the old URL) and http://www.ftsc.org are
     exactly the same place but the latter is clearly easier to remember.

     -=-

     More importantly....

     If you are mirroring the FTP site on ftp.piglets.com then you should
     now mirror ftp.ftsc.org.

     I will maintain the old archive for a brief time, but it's location
     (pub/FTSC) is /not/ the same as the new location which is actually in
     ftp.piglets.com/ftp.ftsc.org.

     So if you don't change over before I remove the old archive you could
     have a problem ;-).

     The CGI script on the webpages is already accessing the new document
     repositry.

     CT.

     ---
      * Origin:  - FTSC Member -  (2:443/13)

     -----------------------------------------------------------------


     Grunged Echomail Deleted.

                           Grunged Echomail Deleted
                               Roy J. Tellason
                                  1:270/615
     FIDONEWS 16-05               Page 5                    8 Feb 1999


                     roy.j.tellason%tanstaaf@frackit.com


     John Souvestre wrote in a message to Roy J Tellason:

      JS> This is to inform you of what seems to be a discrepancy
      JS> between a message from your system and the currently
      JS> accepted specifications for echo mail.

      JS> Because the message appeared to be grunged, or a dupe, it
      JS> was deleted in order to protect the rest of the echo mail
      JS> distribution system.  This copy is sent to you for
      JS> information purposes, to help you find the source of the
      JS> problem and fix it.

      JS> The discrepancy noted in the message, as received here, was:

      JS>     1)  Header and text of 31,814 bytes exceeds maximum of
      JS> 31,000 bytes.

      JS> The message was in the 10TH_AMD area.

     (...)

     I post some fairly lengthy messages in that echo fairly often,  and
     have never *heard* of any 31,000 byte length limitation.  About that
     "to protect the rest of the echo mail distribution system" part,  are
     there people out there who carry that echo who are running software
     that can't handle a message of that size?  I've certainly never
     received any complaints,  excepting those who are running some really
     old offline readers that truncate stuff at 150 lines or whatever.

     As far as "currently accepted specifications" for echo mail,  where
     are these specifications noted?  It certainly doesn't appear in the
     current copy of BOFAQ901.TXT that's on my system here.  The closest
     seems to be this part here:

         5)  Due to the limitations of some current software, the Backbone
             can not guarantee delivery of messages in excess of 13,000
             bytes.
             Backbone Hubs are encouraged to use message processing
             software which allows larger messages, preferably up to 64K
             bytes, to be handled.

     There's a *BIG* difference between "cannot guarantee delivery" and
     "your message has been deleted because..."

     As far as I'm concerned,  this amounts to nothing more than simple
     censorship based on unpublished criteria.  My position as moderator of
     10TH_AMD is that you either carry the whole echo or don't carry it at
     all.

     email: roy.j.tellason%tanstaaf@frackit.com

     -----------------------------------------------------------------

     FIDONEWS 16-05               Page 6                    8 Feb 1999


     =================================================================
                                  NOTICES
     =================================================================

                       Future History

       16 Feb 1999
          13th Anniversary of the introduction of EchoMail by Jeff Rush.

       12 May 1999
          12th Anniversary of Fido Operations in Zone 4;
          10th Anniversary of the creation of FidoNet Zone 4.

       24 Jul 1999
          XIII Pan American Games [through 8 Aug 99].

        9 Jun 1999
          Tenth Anniversary of the adoption of FidoNet Policy 4.07.

       10 Sep 1999
          10th anniversary of Zone 5 operations.

       26 Oct 1999
          Thirty years from release Abbey Road album by the Beatles.

       31 Dec 1999
          Hogmanay, Scotland. The New Year that can't be missed.

        1 Jan 2000
          The 20th Century, C.E., is still taking place thru 31 Dec.

        1 Jun 2000
          EXPO 2000 World Exposition in Hannover (Germany) opens.

       15 Sep 2000
          Sydney (Australia) Summer Olympiad opens.

       21 Sep 2000
          10 years of FidoNet in +7 (xUSSR)

        1 Jan 2001
          This is the actual start of the new millennium, C.E.

       -- If YOU have something which you would like to see in this
             Future History, please send a note to the FidoNews Editor.

     -----------------------------------------------------------------

     FIDONEWS 16-05               Page 7                    8 Feb 1999


     =================================================================
                            FIDONET BY INTERNET
     =================================================================

     This is a list of all FidoNet-related sites reported to the
     FidoNews Editor as of this issue; see the notice at the end.

     FidoNet:

     Homepage    http://www.fidonet.org
     FidoNews    http://www.fidonews.org             [HTML]
                 http://209.77.228.66/fidonews.html  [ASCII]
     WWW sources http://travel.to/fidonet/
     FTSC page   http://www.ftsc.org/
     Echomail    [pending]
     General     http://owls.com/~jerrys/fidonet.html
                 http://www.nrgsys.com/orb/foti
     List servers:
                 http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/fidonet-discussion

     ============

     Zone 1:       http://www.z1.fidonet.org

       Region 10:  http://www.psnw.com/~net205/region10.html

       Region 11:  http://oeonline.com/~garyg/region11/

       Region 13:

         Net 264:  http://www.net264.org/r13.htm

       Region 14:

         Net 282:  http://www.rxn.com/~net282/

       Region 17:  http://www.nwstar.com/~region17/

       Region 18:  http://techshop.pdn.net/fido/

       Region 19:  http://www.compconn.net/r19

     Zone 1 Elist  http://www.baltimoremd.com/elist/

     Not sure where the following should be placed:

                   http://www.angelfire.com/biz/snwvlly/fido.html

     ============

     Zone 2:       http://www.z2.fidonet.org

     ZEC2:
     Zone 2 Elist: http://www.fbone.ch/echolist/

       Region 20:  http://www.fidonet.pp.se (in Swedish)
     FIDONEWS 16-05               Page 8                    8 Feb 1999


       Region 23:  http://www.fido.dk (in Danish)

       Region 24:  http://www.swb.de/personal/flop/gatebau.html (German)
         Fido-IP:  http://home.nrh.de/~lbehet/fido (English/German)

       Region 25:  http://www.bsnet.co.uk/net2502/net/

        Region 26: http://www.nemesis.ie
           REC 26: http://www.nrgsys.com/orb

       Region 27:  http://telematique.org/ft/r27.htm

       Region 29:  http://www.rtfm.be/fidonet/  (French)

       Region 30:  http://www.fidonet.ch  (German)

       Region 33:  http://www.fidoitalia.net (Italian)

       Region 34:  http://www.pobox.com/cnb/r34.htm  (Spanish)
           REC34:  http://pobox.com/~chr

       Region 36:  http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/7207/

       Region 38:  http://public.st.carnet.hr/~blagi/bbs/adriam.html

       Region 41:  http://www.fidonet.gr (Greek/English)

       Region 42:  http://www.fido.cz

       Region 48:  http://www.fidonet.org.pl

       Region 50:  http://www.fido7.com/  (Russian)
        Net 5010:  http://fido.tu-chel.ac.ru/  (Russian)
        Net 5015:  http://www.fido.nnov.ru/  (Russian)
        Net 5030:  http://kenga.ru/fido/  (Russian & English)
        Net 5073:  http://people.weekend.ru/soa/  (Russian)

     ============

     Zone 3:       http://www.z3.fidonet.org

     ============

     Zone 4:

       Region 90:  http://visitweb.com/fidonet
         Net 903:  http://www.playagrande.com/refugio
         Net 904:  http://members.tripod.com/~net904 (Spanish)

     ============

     Zone 5:       http://www.eastcape.co.za/fidonet/index.htm

     ============

     Zone 6:       http://www.z6.fidonet.org
     FIDONEWS 16-05               Page 9                    8 Feb 1999


       Region 65:  http://www.cfido.com/fidonet/cfidochina.html (Chinese)

     ============

     Pages listed above are as submitted to the FidoNews Editor,
     and generally reflect Zone and Regional Web Page sites.  If
     no Regional site is submitted, the first Network page from
     that Region is used in its place.  Generally, Regional pages
     should list access points to all Networks within the Region.

     TCP/IP accessible node access information should be submitted
     to the FidoNews Editor for inclusion in their Region or Zone.

                      -----------oOo-------------

                       Fidonet Via Internet Hubs

     Node#      | Operator          | Facilities (*) | Speed | Basic Rate
     -----------+-------------------+----------------+-------+------------
     1:12/12    | Ken Wilson        | FTP            | T1    | $24mo.
     1:13/25    | Jim Balcom        | FTP            | 56k   | $20mo.
     1:106/1    | Matt Bedynek      | FTP,VMoT,UUE   | 64k   | $5/$15mo.
     1:106/6018 | Lawrence Garvin   | FTP,VMoT       | 64k   | $5/mo.
     1:107/451  | Andy Knifel       | FTP, VMoT, UUE | 33.6  | n/c
     1:124/7008 | Ben Hamilton      | FTP,VMoT,UUE   | 64k   | $10/$20mo.
     1:140/12   | Bob Seaborn       | FTP            | T1    | $5/$20
     1:270/101  | George Peace      | FTP            | T1    | $30mo.
     1:271/140  | Tom Barstow       | UUE            | T1    | n/c
     1:275/1    | Joshua Ecklund    | UUE            | 28.8  | $10/yr.
     1:280/169  | Brian Greenstreet | FTP            | 33.6  | $2mo.
     1:2401/305 | Peter Rocca       | FTP,UUE        | T1    | unkn
     1:2424/10  | Alec Grynspan     | FTP,UUE        | T1    | n/c
     1:2604/104 | Jim Mclaughlin    | FTP,VMoT,UUE   | 33.6  | $1mo.
     1:2624/306 | D. Calafrancesco  | VMoT           | 33.6  | $15yr.
     1:345/0    | Todd Cochrane     | FTP            | T1    | n/c
     1:346/250  | Aran Spence       | FTP,UUE        | T1    | $10mo.
     1:396/45   | Marc Lewis        | UUE            | 33.6  | $26/yr.
     1:3651/9   | Jerry Gause       | FTP,VMoT       | 33.6  | $3/$6
     1:396/1    | John Souvestre    | FTP,VMoT       | T1    | $15mo.
     2:33/505   | Mario Mure        | VMoT,UUE       | 64k   | n/c
     2:254/175  | Alex Kemp         | UUE            | 56k   | n/c
     2:284/800  | Jeroen VanDeLeur  | FTP,UUE        | 64k   | n/c
     2:335/610  | Gino Lucrezi      | UUE            | 33.6  | n/c
     2:469/84   | Max Masyutin      | VMoT           | 256k  | n/c
     2:2411/413 | Dennis Dittrich   | UUE            | 64k   | n/c
     2:2474/275 | Christian Emig    | UUE            | 64k   | unkn
     3:633/260  | Malcolm Miles     | FTP            | 33.6  | n/c
     4:905/100  | Fabian Gervan     | VMoT, UUE      | ???   | n/c
     5:7104/2   | Henk Wolsink      | FTP            | 28.8  | n/c
     --
     * FTP  = Internet File Transfer Protocol
     * VMoT = Virtual Mailer over Telnet (various)
     * UUE  = uuencode<->email type transfers
     [I'm only cataloging transfer methods, eg, ftp, email, telnet.
     Specific programs using these protocols are no longer being listed.
     Contact the system operators for details of which programs they have
     FIDONEWS 16-05               Page 10                   8 Feb 1999


     available.]

     Compiled by C. Ingersoll, 1:2623/71, (609)814-1978, fbn@dandy.net
     Posted on the 1st of every month in FN_SYSOP, R13SYSOP and Fidonews.

     -----------------------------------------------------------------

     FIDONEWS 16-05               Page 11                   8 Feb 1999


     =================================================================
                           FIDONEWS INFORMATION
     =================================================================


      ------- FIDONEWS MASTHEAD AND CONTACT INFORMATION -------

       Editor: Henk Wolsink

       Editors Emeritii: Tom Jennings, Thom Henderson, Dale Lovell,
                         Vince Perriello, Tim Pozar, Sylvia Maxwell,
                         Donald Tees, Christopher Baker, Zorch Frezberg

       "FidoNews Editor"
           FidoNet  5:5/23
           BBS  +27-41-515-913,  2400/9600/V.34/V.90

        more addresses:
           Henk Wolsink -- 5:7104/2,    hwolsink@catpe.alt.za

        (Postal Service mailing address)
           FidoNews Editor
           P.O. Box 12325
           Port Elizabeth,
           6006
           South Africa

         ------------------------------------------------------

     FidoNews is published weekly by and for the members of the FIDONET
     INTERNATIONAL AMATEUR ELECTRONIC MAIL system.  It is a compilation
     of individual articles contributed by their authors or their
     authorized agents.  The contribution of articles to this compilation
     does not diminish the rights of the authors.  OPINIONS EXPRESSED in
     these articles ARE THOSE OF THE AUTHORS and not necessarily those of
     FidoNews and/or the Editor.

     Authors retain copyright on individual works; otherwise FidoNews is
     Copyright (C) 1999 Henk Wolsink.  All rights reserved.  Duplication
     and/or distribution permitted for noncommercial purposes only.  For
     use in other circumstances, please contact the original authors, or
     the Editor.

                             =*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=

     OBTAINING COPIES: The most recent issue of FidoNews in electronic
     form may be obtained from the FidoNews Editor via manual download or
     file-request, or from various sites in the FidoNet and Internet.
     PRINTED COPIES may be obtained by sending SASE to the above postal
     address.  File-request FIDONEWS for the current Issue.  File-request
     FNEWS for the current month in one archive.  Or file-request specific
     back Issue filenames in distribution format [FNEWSGnn.ZIP] for a
     particular Issue.  Monthly Volumes are available as FNWSmmmy.ZIP
     where mmm = three letter month [JAN - DEC] and y = last digit of the
     current year [8], i.e., FNWSJAN8.ZIP for all the Issues from Jan 98.

     FIDONEWS 16-05               Page 12                   8 Feb 1999


     Annual volumes are available as FNEWSn.ZIP where n = the Volume number
     1 - 15 for 1984 - 1998, respectively. Annual Volume archives range in
     size from 48K to 1.4M.


        INTERNET USERS: FidoNews is available via:

                        http://www.fidonews.org
                **      http://www.fidonet.org/fidonews.htm
                **      ftp://ftp.fidonet.org/pub/fidonet/fidonews/
                        ftp://ftp.irvbbs.com/fidonews/
                        ftp://ftp.nwstar.com/Fidonet/Fidonews

        And in non-English formats via:

                **      http://www.hvc.ee/pats/fidonews (Estonian)
                        http://www.fidonet.pp.se/sfnews (Swedish)

       **  LINK HAS NOT BEEN UPDATED

                                   *=*=*

     You may obtain an email subscription to FidoNews by sending email to:

                        jbarchuk@worldnet.att.net

     with a Subject line of: subscribe fnews-edist

     and no message in the message body. To remove your name from the
     email distribution use a Subject line of: unsubscribe fnews-edist
     with no message to the same address above.

                                      *

     You may retrieve current and previous Issues of FidoNews via FTPMail
     by sending email to:

                        ftpmail@fidonews.org

     with a Subject line of: help

     and FTPMail will immediately send a reply containing details and
     instructions. When you actually make a file request, FTPMail will
     respond in three stages. You find a link for this process on
     www.fidonews.org.

                                    *=*=*

     You can read the current FidoNews Issue in HTML format at:

                        http://www.fidonews.org

     STAR SOURCE for ALL Past Issues via FTP and file-request -
     Available for FReq from 1:396/1 or by anonymous FTP from:

                        ftp://ftp.sstar.com/fidonet/fnews/
     FIDONEWS 16-05               Page 13                   8 Feb 1999


     Each yearly archive also contains a listing of the Table-of-Contents
     for that year's issues.  The total set is currently about 13 Megs.

                                  =*=*=*=

     The current week's FidoNews are now also available almost immediately
     after publication on the FidoNews Editor homepage on the World Wide
     Web at:

                        http://209.77.228.66/fidonews.html

     There are also links there to jim barchuk's HTML FidoNews source and
     to John Souvestre's FTP site for the archives.  There is also an
     email link for sending in an article as message text.  Drop on over.

                            =*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=

     SUBMISSIONS: You are encouraged to submit articles for publication in
     FidoNews. Article submission requirements are contained in the file
     ARTSPEC.DOC, available from the FidoNews Editor, or file-requestable
     from 5:5/23 [5:7104/2] as file "ARTSPEC.DOC".  ALL Zone Coordinators
     should have copies of ARTSPEC.DOC. Please read it.

     "Fido", "FidoNet" and the dog-with-diskette are U.S. registered
     trademarks of Tom Jennings, P.O. Box 410923, San Francisco, CA 94141,
     and are used with permission.

                  "Disagreement is actually necessary,
                   or we'd all have to get in fights
                   or something to amuse ourselves
                   and create the requisite chaos."
                                     -Tom Jennings

     -----------------------------------------------------------------

