Date: 16 Oct 2000 18:37:08 -0400 Message-ID: <20001016223708.102.qmail@xuxa.iecc.com> From: owner-telecom-digest@telecom-digest.org (Telecom Digest) To: telecom-digest@telecom-digest.org Subject: Telecom Digest V2000 #90 Reply-To: editor@telecom-digest.org Sender: owner-telecom-digest@telecom-digest.org Errors-To: owner-telecom-digest@telecom-digest.org Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 1e62b8710462c2ea6e8740dabb941ee7 Status: RO X-Status: Telecom Digest Monday, October 16 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 090 In this issue: Re: Al Gore And The Internet Re: FCC adopts rules to open phone competition in apartments, offices Telecom Update (Canada) #254, October 16, 2000 Re: E-Mail Marketing: Over 1 Billion Served Re: Al Gore and the Internet Re: Al Gore And The Internet Re: Al Gore and the Internet Re: E-Mail Marketing: Over 1 Billion Served, but not for long Administrivia: getting missing digests Re: Al Gore And The Internet Re: FCC adopts rules to open phone competition in apartments, off ices Re: Al Gore and the Internet Re: Can the EU Preserve Web Privacy in England? Re: Al Gore And The Internet Re: Al Gore and the Internet Telephone Briefing on Third Generation Wireless Technology RE: Al Gore And The Internet (Hoax?) Re: Al Gore And The Internet (Hoax?) Re: FCC adopts rules to open phone competition in apartments, off ices ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 16 Oct 2000 10:20:22 -0400 From: "Peter F. Dubuque" Subject: Re: Al Gore And The Internet In accordance with the prophecy, John Repici wrote: > As you've pointed out, it was a collaborative effort. I'm sure it was just > an oversight on your part, that you failed to mention it was also perhaps > the most meticulously chronicled collaboration ever undertaken. The papers > which concisely document the where, when, what, how, and WHO of this effort > are called RFCs and IENs. They can be found at: > http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfcsearch.html > Among other places. Here you and anyone else who cares to (sorry), can > search them up, down, left, right, near, and far, without ever finding the > name "Gore". > Solving the problems of the Internet Protocols was certainly a riddle for > the men working on them, though they had them working pretty well long > before Gore actually took office (he ran for congress for the first time in > 1976, seven years after the project was started, six years after the > Internet Protocol was first proffered in RFC 54). Modern rocketry dates back to Robert Goddard in the '20s. We had ICBMs in the '50s, and a fledgling space program three years before John F. Kennedy took office. Kennedy wasn't on the teams that designed the Saturn V, or the Apollo capsule, or solved any other engineering challenges. Since he wasn't a member of Congress, he wasn't responsible for allocating money for it. The idea wasn't his--it had been a popular theme in science fiction novels for decades, and has probably been floating around in human consciousness for millennia. And he died five and a half years before the events of July 20, 1969. Yet he's still credited with putting a man on the moon. Now, Al Gore is no Jack Kennedy. But if someone like Vint Cerf gives him credit for his work in supporting and promoting the Internet in Congress, helping to shape it into its present form, well, there are few other people whose opinions on the matter carry as much credibility for me. - -- Peter F. Dubuque - peterd@shore.net - Enemy of Reason(TM) O- - -- The Telecom Digest is currently robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Oct 2000 10:45:44 -0400 From: "Ed Ellers" Subject: Re: FCC adopts rules to open phone competition in apartments, offices Brian F. G. Bidulock wrote: "However, in the final analysis, doesn't the consumer have a choice? "...to move somewhere else where service is more to their liking..." As a practical matter, not until the lease expires. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Oct 2000 10:46:14 -0400 From: Angus TeleManagement Group Subject: Telecom Update (Canada) #254, October 16, 2000 ************************************************************ TELECOM UPDATE Angus TeleManagement's Weekly Telecom Newsbulletin http://www.angustel.ca Number 254: October 16, 2000 Publication of Telecom Update is made possible by generous financial support from: AT&T Canada ...................... http://www.attcanada.com/ Bell Canada ............................ http://www.bell.ca/ C1 Communications ......... http://www.c1communications.com/ Cisco Systems Canada ................. http://www.cisco.com/ Lucent Technologies Canada ........... http://www.lucent.ca/ Norigen ............................ http://www.norigen.com/ Sprint Canada .................. http://www.sprintcanada.ca/ ************************************************************ IN THIS ISSUE: ** GT Buys Customers and Fibre From C1 ** Telus Begins Toronto Fibre Build ** Manitoba Tel Founds E-Business Unit ** Number Conservation Proposed for 416 ** FCC Orders Open Access to Buildings ** Two Critics Elected to ICANN Board ** Three Carriers to Offer Microsoft Wireless Data ** Telus Consumer Division Based in Edmonton ** RIM to Offer Software for Corporate Info ** CRTC Approves Measured Service Increase ** Telus and Wysdom Ally for Wireless Web ** OnSite Access to Use AT&T Canada Network ** Canada Payphone to Supply Suncor Facility ** Wireless Site to Provide PCS Spectrum Auction Info ** Motorola, Teledesic Loosen Ties ** NBTel Interactive TV Has 1,000 Customers ** Nokia Begins Kanata Build ** Janisch Appointed to Law & Technology Chair ** Broadband Reaches the Backwoods ============================================================ GT BUYS CUSTOMERS AND FIBRE FROM C1: GT Group Telecom has purchased C1 Communication's assets and business in New Brunswick and Nova Scotia for approximately $70 Million in GT shares. The deal includes 2,375 route kilometres of fibre and 116 on-net buildings. ** C1, which is now an Ontario-based CLEC, was originally the telecom division of New Brunswick's Fundy Cable. It was formed in 1999 when Shaw purchased Fundy's cable TV business. (See Telecom Update #181) TELUS BEGINS TORONTO FIBRE BUILD: Telus and Metromedia Fibre Network say the first phase of their Toronto fibre net will be completed early in 2001. By the spring of 2002, they plan to install 864 fibre optic strands over 225 route kilometres, creating one of the largest metropolitan fibre networks in North America. MANITOBA TEL FOUNDS E-BUSINESS UNIT: MTS has launched Qunara E-solutions to offer e-commerce products and consulting services. Qunara replaces MTS's NGage Electronic Commerce. NUMBER CONSERVATION PROPOSED FOR 416: The 416 Relief Planning Committee has asked the CRTC to approve measures to avoid a telephone number shortage in 416. The measures include limiting customers' right to reserve numbers for future use, returning disconnected numbers to service more quickly, and releasing various held and administrative numbers for general use. ** The Committee wants these measures to remain in effect until the new 647 Area Code is introduced on March 5, 2001. FCC ORDERS OPEN ACCESS TO BUILDINGS: The U.S. Federal Communications Commission has forbidden telecom carriers from signing exclusive contracts with owners of multi-tenant commercial buildings. The FCC also ruled that incumbent telcos must allow competitors to use their conduits and rights-of-way in customer buildings and on campuses, and asked for public comment on extending this ruling to residential buildings. http://www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Wireless/News_Releases/2000/nrwl00 38.html TWO CRITICS ELECTED TO ICANN BOARD: The five new at-large members of the Board of the Internet Corporation for Assigned Named and Numbers (ICANN) include two very vocal critics of the organization. The newly elected members of the 19-member Board are: ** North America: Karl Auerbach, a Cisco researcher who wants ICANN to get out of making trademark policy and create thousands of new top-level domains. ** Europe: Andy Mueller-Maguhn, a German student who is a member of the Chaos Computer Club, a hacker group. ** Africa: Nii Quaynor, an ISP owner in Ghana. ** South America: Ivan Moura Campos, chairman of Brazil's Internet Steering Committee. ** Asia/Pacific: Masanobu Katoh, a Japanese citizen who lives in the U.S. and works for Fujitsu. THREE CARRIERS TO OFFER MICROSOFT WIRELESS DATA: Microsoft has launched MSN Mobile service in Canada to provide online information and services (including e-mail, stocks, and sports scores) to wireless devices. Bell Mobility, Clearnet, and Rogers AT&T Wireless will offer the service this quarter. TELUS CONSUMER DIVISION BASED IN EDMONTON: Telus has announced that its new consumer division will be headquartered in Edmonton. The group was created as part of a corporate reorganization into "customer-facing business units," which Telus expects to complete in the first quarter of 2001. RIM TO OFFER SOFTWARE FOR CORPORATE INFO: Research In Motion has agreed to market Information Builders' WebFocus software, which will enable BlackBerry users to access corporate e-mail and other corporate data. CRTC APPROVES MEASURED SERVICE INCREASE: The CRTC has given interim approval to Bell Canada's proposal to increase the rate for Individual Line Message Rate Business Service from $31.80 to $34.95, effective November 10. (See Telecom Update #248) Until March 31, Bell will waive installation charges for customers who switch from measured rate to regular business service. http://www.crtc.gc.ca/archive/Orders/2000/O2000-923.htm TELUS AND WYSDOM ALLY FOR WIRELESS WEB: Telus and Richmond Hill, Ontario-based Wysdom Inc. have formed a strategic relationship to provide wireless Internet applications to business customers across Canada. ONSITE ACCESS TO USE AT&T CANADA NETWORK: OnSite Access, which provides telecom services in multi-tenant office buildings, has agreed to use AT&T Canada's network infrastructure. OnSite's owners include AT&T Corp, J.P. Morgan, Microsoft, and PSINet. CANADA PAYPHONE TO SUPPLY SUNCOR FACILITY: Canada Payphone has a $25-Million, 10-year contract to supply Suncor's 3,800- person Fort McMurray oil-sands camp with phones, payphones, long distance, calling cards, and operator services. WIRELESS SITE TO PROVIDE PCS SPECTRUM AUCTION INFO: Industry Canada will post round-by-round PCS auction results on a portal accessible by Web-enabled wireless phones, at rils.ic.gc.ca/a.wml. Deputy Minister Peter Harder says this is "the first wireless portal operated by any government agency anywhere in the world." MOTOROLA, TELEDESIC LOOSEN TIES: Motorola is no longer the prime contractor for the planned Teledesic broadband satellite system, although it remains an investor. The change, described as a "mutual decision," follows Teledesic's merger with another struggling satellite venture, ICO. NBTEL INTERACTIVE TV HAS 1,000 CUSTOMERS: NBTel reports that its VibeVision interactive digital TV service, marketed since early this year, now has 1,000 customers in Moncton and Saint John. NOKIA BEGINS KANATA BUILD: Nokia has begun an expansion of their Kanata product-development facilities to accommodate an additional 300 employees. JANISCH APPOINTED TO LAW & TECHNOLOGY CHAIR: Telecom Update congratulates Hudson Janisch on his appointment to the Osler, Hoskin & Harcourt Chair in Law and Technology at the University of Toronto. Janisch, one of Canada's most respected authorities on telecom policy and regulation, has been a Professor in the U of T Faculty of Law since 1978. BROADBAND REACHES THE BACKWOODS: In the October issue of Telemanagement, Gerry Blackwell describes how rural coalitions in Ontario are taking broadband services where carriers fear to tread. Also in Telemanagement #179: ** "Whatever Happened to Unified Messaging?" by Allan Sulkin ** "New Attendant Systems Improve Service to Callers," by Daniel Stusser Until June 30, all new subscribers to Telemanagement will receive the 24 bonus reports in Tips, Tricks and Traps 2000. To subscribe to Telemanagement, call 1-800-263-4415, ext 225, or visit the Telemanagement home page at http://www.angustel.ca. ============================================================ HOW TO SUBMIT ITEMS FOR TELECOM UPDATE E-MAIL: editors@angustel.ca FAX: 905-686-2655 MAIL: TELECOM UPDATE Angus TeleManagement Group 8 Old Kingston Road Ajax, Ontario Canada L1T 2Z7 =========================================================== HOW TO SUBSCRIBE (OR UNSUBSCRIBE) TELECOM UPDATE is provided in electronic form only. There are two formats available: 1. The fully-formatted edition is posted on the World Wide Web on the first business day of the week at http://www.angustel.ca 2. The e-mail edition is distributed free of charge. To subscribe, send an e-mail message to: listmanager@subs.postmastergeneral.com Insert as the subject of your message the two words: subscribe TelecomUpdate To stop receiving the e-mail edition, send an e-mail message to: listmanager@postmastergeneral.com Insert as the subject of your message the two words: unsubscribe TelecomUpdate =========================================================== COPYRIGHT AND DISCLAIMER: All contents copyright 2000 Angus TeleManagement Group Inc. All rights reserved. For further information, including permission to reprint or reproduce, please e-mail rosita@angustel.ca or phone 905-686-5050 ext 225. The information and data included has been obtained from sources which we believe to be reliable, but Angus TeleManagement makes no warranties or representations whatsoever regarding accuracy, completeness, or adequacy. Opinions expressed are based on interpretation of available information, and are subject to change. If expert advice on the subject matter is required, the services of a competent professional should be obtained. ============================================================ - -- The Telecom Digest is currently robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Oct 2000 11:10:27 -0400 From: Ray/Rita Normandeau/Frazier AFTRA-SAG Subject: Re: E-Mail Marketing: Over 1 Billion Served In article <39E80449.35A404FB@animats.com>, John Nagle wrote: > Monty Solomon wrote: > > E-Mail Marketing: Over 1 Billion Served > > By Ben Hammer > > 24/7 Media says the dot-com squeeze has caused a huge surge in the > > number of messages it sends out. > > http://www.thestandard.com/article/display/0,1151,18939,00.html > > Don't worry. 24/7 Media does not have long to live. > Our automated dot-com collapse predictor at > > http://www.downside.com/deathwatch.html > > predicts a death date of November 30, 2000. That's when > they run out of cash. Their stock has already dropped > from 65 to 4 and is in a screaming dive, having lost half > its value in the last two weeks. Their latest SEC filing even says > "WE ANTICIPATE CONTINUED LOSSES AND WE MAY NEVER BE PROFITABLE." > > I don't think anyone else will try to IPO a spammer > for a while. > > John Nagle > Downside Maybe, it's sending out SOS messages. How long does Proctor and Gamble have? Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Oct 2000 11:14:18 -0400 From: Fred Goldstein Subject: Re: Al Gore and the Internet In article <20001016080919.1710.qmail@web1506.mail.yahoo.com>, Ki Suk Hahn wrote: > While I understand that Mr. Gore has been misquoted as > saying he "invented the internet", I'm not sure I > understand what it means to take the initiative in > creating something. You either created something or > you didn't. Yes, Mr. Gore is probably more > internet-savvy than most people in Washington, but > it's his penchant for stretching the truth that people > are ridiculing when they misquote him. "Creation" isn't a black-and-white one-person thang. Gore never ever claimed to have "invented" the Internet; that slander was made by a Wired.com reporter, and the meme spread. He said he, as a Congress member, "took the initiative" in creating the Internet. In Congress, an "initiative" is a funding effort. Gore led the effort to get funding for NSFnet in 1987. Before then, there was an ARPAnet open only to defense contractors and a blessed few others. NSFnet was a major expansion of the federally-funded Internet to include universities nationwide. NSFnet evolved into the core of the commercial Internet, when commercialization was opened in 1993 or so. Three of the NSFnet regional member nets (NEARnet, BARRNET and SURAnet) were, for instance, purchased by the late BBN Corp; they became much of what's now Genuity. The NSFnet backbone grew, in some way or other, into what became MCI's and now C&W's backbone, and into what became ANS, now part of Worldcom's backbone. (That part, from the mid-90s, gets really confusing.) So NSFnet was not just a trivial research project; it was a major push for Internet funding that may well have been the part that put it over the top, in public awareness. Recall that in 1987, a lot of industry and even (especially?) government was pushing "OSI" as the network protocol suite of choice, but OSI was aimed at corporate multi-vendor networking, not so much as inter-company networking. The Internet idea, along with open-sourced (albeit rotten) code implementations from Berkeley, blindsided OSI advocates. Gore "got it" when hardly anybody else down there did. - -- Fred Goldstein fgoldstein@wn.DO-NOT-SPAM-ME.net Disclaimer: Opinions are mine alone. Sharing requires permission. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Oct 2000 12:21:30 -0400 From: stanley@skyking.OCE.ORST.EDU (John Stanley) Subject: Re: Al Gore And The Internet In article , Peter F. Dubuque wrote: >events of July 20, 1969. Yet he's still credited with putting a man on the >moon. By whom? People who haven't heard of NASA, perhaps. >Now, Al Gore is no Jack Kennedy. Nor did Al Gore create the Internet. He's crowing about his 24 years of public service, and yet the Internet has just had its 25 or 30 year anniversary, I forget which. The Internet was being built before he got in office. >But if someone like Vint Cerf gives him >credit for his work in supporting and promoting the Internet in Congress, >helping to shape it into its present form, well, there are few other people >whose opinions on the matter carry as much credibility for me. Vint Cerf may have done that, we can't tell from the posting here. Anyone can put Vint Cerf's name on what they post and claim Vint said it. If he did, he did not credit Gore with creating the Internet, which is what Gore claims he did. Cerf is only trying to put a spin on Gore's nonsense by trying to say that Gore didn't say what he said. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Oct 2000 12:30:04 -0400 From: stanley@skyking.OCE.ORST.EDU (John Stanley) Subject: Re: Al Gore and the Internet In article <8sf5sf$hai$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Fred Goldstein wrote: >"Creation" isn't a black-and-white one-person thang. Gore never ever >claimed to have "invented" the Internet; that slander was made by a >Wired.com reporter, and the meme spread. Gore apologists are amazing people. They can read a clear statement from their boy that he created something, and they can deny that he said it, or that it doesn't mean he actually created it, or whatever. Then they blame someone else for having said it. What's next? >He said he, as a Congress member, "took the initiative" in creating the >Internet. He wasn't a Congress member when the Internet was created, was he? 24 years of public service put him entering public life after the Internet was already created. >In Congress, an "initiative" is a funding effort. And in real life, "creating" means you have some contribution to its existance other than "funding". >Gore led the effort to get funding for NSFnet in 1987. Ummmm, so the Internet has been in existance only 13 years? I seem to recall seeing a date of 1972 on an RFC for FTP. How did we have FTP 15 years before anything to FTP over? >So NSFnet was not just a trivial research project; it was a major push >for Internet funding that may well have been the part that put it over >the top, in public awareness. It was not, however, the creation of the Internet. >Gore "got it" when hardly anybody else down there did. And thus his right to claim that he created it. Phhht. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Oct 2000 12:44:39 -0400 From: johnl@iecc.com (John R Levine) Subject: Re: E-Mail Marketing: Over 1 Billion Served, but not for long >> Don't worry. 24/7 Media does not have long to live. >> Our automated dot-com collapse predictor at >> >> http://www.downside.com/deathwatch.html >> >> predicts a death date of November 30, 2000. That's when >> they run out of cash. Their stock has already dropped >> from 65 to 4 and is in a screaming dive, having lost half >> its value in the last two weeks. Their latest SEC filing even says >> "WE ANTICIPATE CONTINUED LOSSES AND WE MAY NEVER BE PROFITABLE." >Maybe, it's sending out SOS messages. >How long does Procter and Gamble have? P&G is profitable and is generating cash, not burning through it, so on that basis they'll live forever. Barron's published a cover story a few months back listing a whole lot of dot-com companies, how much cash they have, what their burn rate is, and by dividing those two, how long until they run out of money. They pointed out the now unsurprising fact that there were a whole lot of them that would run out of money in less than a year. There are a few Internet companies that make money, most notably AOL and Yahoo, along with smaller ones like Cheap Tickets, but far too many are living on borrowed time. ObTelecom: real telephone companies make pots of money. - -- John R. Levine, IECC, POB 727, Trumansburg NY 14886 +1 607 387 6869 johnl@iecc.com, Village Trustee and Sewer Commissioner, http://iecc.com/johnl, Member, Provisional board, Coalition Against Unsolicited Commercial E-mail - -- The Telecom Digest is currently robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Oct 2000 13:15:53 -0400 From: John R Levine Subject: Administrivia: getting missing digests I had a mail screwup last week, and I gather that some subscribers didn't get digest #83. (The host where Telecom lives is the same one that hosts abuse.net, and now and then some idiot mailbombs me.) Majordomo has a mail server that has all of the back issues since I moved the list here. To get #83, send a message to majordomo@telecom-digest.org that contains this line: get telecom-digest v2000.n083 Earlier digests are on Pat's web site at www.telecom-digest.org. Regards, John Levine, postmaster@telecom-digest.org Telecom Digest moderator pro tem PS: Yes, it'd be nice to put the current ones there as well, but the site's a mess and I just don't have the time to figure it out or update it. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Oct 2000 14:29:53 -0400 From: "John Repici" Subject: Re: Al Gore And The Internet >>>>> http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfcsearch.html <<<< Peter, re: "if someone like Vint Cerf gives him credit for his work in supporting and promoting the Internet in Congress" Where do you see any CREDIBLE evidence that this has happened? A message in a newsgroup from a nonvalid email address at yahoo that lists a bunch of hard left political sites at the end? How long have you been reading newsgroup messages? JFK is credited with this initiative: "putting a man on the moon and returning him safely to earth". He is not credited, nor would he take credit for, "inventing" rocketry, or even "taking the initiative in creating" rocketry (though, I don't see much difference between "inventing" and "taking the initiative in creating", I'll assume since all Gore supporters do, that just means you Gore supporters, like your candidate, are smarter than me). Some things I DO know, and ANYBODY can look up: o Internet development was FUNDED seven years before Gore took office. o The Internet was CREATED six years before Gore took office. ------- Other things I know: o The school where the little girl had to stand in the hall was NOT underfunded and overcrowded, rather it was full of hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of new teaching equipment that hadn't been put away for that one day she had to stand. o Shall I go on? Sadly, I could list many more, from pet dogs, to vagabonds. Don't get me wrong Peter, I think Al Gore has many progressive ideas. Unfortunately, he, like his predecessor, is a liar. -John P.S. re: "Now, Al Gore is no Jack Kennedy". Shouldn't we be trying our best to elect another one? Please consider Ralph Nader, progressive ideas AND integrity. You know in your heart he's who our next president SHOULD be. :-) Peter F. Dubuque wrote in message news:k8EG5.255$Mf4.47333@news.shore.net... > In accordance with the prophecy, John Repici wrote: > ... > > Modern rocketry dates back to Robert Goddard in the '20s. We had ICBMs in > the '50s, and a fledgling space program three years before John F. Kennedy > took office. Kennedy wasn't on the teams that designed the Saturn V, or > the Apollo capsule, or solved any other engineering challenges. Since he > wasn't a member of Congress, he wasn't responsible for allocating money for > it. The idea wasn't his--it had been a popular theme in science fiction > novels for decades, and has probably been floating around in human > consciousness for millennia. And he died five and a half years before the > events of July 20, 1969. Yet he's still credited with putting a man on the > moon. > > Now, Al Gore is no Jack Kennedy. But if someone like Vint Cerf gives him > credit for his work in supporting and promoting the Internet in Congress, > helping to shape it into its present form, well, there are few other people > whose opinions on the matter carry as much credibility for me. > > > -- > Peter F. Dubuque - peterd@shore.net - Enemy of Reason(TM) O- > -- > The Telecom Digest is currently robomoderated. Please mail > messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Oct 2000 15:01:02 -0400 From: "Green, Andrew" Subject: Re: FCC adopts rules to open phone competition in apartments, off ices >> The building owners still have total control over which >> telecom services enter the building, who is permitted in >> his risers, and who is allowed roof space, which is as >> it should be. > > AS IT SHOULD BE?? No, that's absurd. The owner of my > apartment building should not have the right to restrict > my choice of telecommunications companies to provide my > local service. That's absolutely unreasonable and flat-out > unjustifiable. Linc, I agree with you in the abstract, but realistically the property belongs to the owner, and the owner gets to say who is allowed to drill holes in it. As a renter you simply don't get to go ordering products and services that require physical alterations to property that you don't own, and all the huffing and puffing in the world isn't going to change that. It's even in your lease: You don't get to redecorate the lobby, order new washers and dryers for the laundry room, or bang your own satellite dish on the roof. The restriction on telecommunication services to tenants is based on the physical access that's being granted by the owner, and if s/he doesn't want to allow a competing provider to move in, you're free to move elsewhere. > Neither is it the building owner's responsibility (nor > right) to decide on behalf of the tenants who shall provide > telecommunications services. > > I'm buying the service, I'm paying the bills, *I* have the > right to choose the provider. Period. Where it affects his building or, by extension, the others living there, he gets to impose certain limits. You will note, for example, that nowhere is a building owner dictating what brand of cellular service must be used. - -- Andrew C. Green Datalogics, Inc. 101 N. Wacker, Ste. 1800 http://www.datalogics.com Chicago, IL 60606-7301 - -- The Telecom Digest is currently robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Oct 2000 15:10:51 -0400 From: k3ph@dxis.monroe.pa.us (Bob Schreibmaier) Subject: Re: Al Gore and the Internet In article <20001016080919.1710.qmail@web1506.mail.yahoo.com>, Ki Suk Hahn wrote: > >> Subject: Al Gore And The Internet >> >> Al Gore And The Internet >> >> By Robert Kahn and Vinton Cerf >> >> Al Gore was the first political leader to recognize >> the importance of >> the Internet and to promote and support its >> development. > >While I understand that Mr. Gore has been misquoted as >saying he "invented the internet", I'm not sure I >understand what it means to take the initiative in >creating something. You either created something or >you didn't. Yes, Mr. Gore is probably more >internet-savvy than most people in Washington, but >it's his penchant for stretching the truth that people >are ridiculing when they misquote him. Correct. He didn't create the Internet. As a senator from Tennessee, he sponsored legislation that eventually turned ARPANET into the Internet of today. That's the initiative he refers to. - -- +------------------- \-\-\-\ ----------------------------+ | Bob Schreibmaier K3PH | E-mail: k3ph@dxis.monroe.pa.us | | Kresgeville, PA 18333 | ICBM: 40o55'N 75o30'W | +--------------------------------------------------------+ - -- The Telecom Digest is currently robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Oct 2000 15:21:30 -0400 From: "John Repici" Subject: Re: Can the EU Preserve Web Privacy in England? re: "s/thwarted/delayed/" Wonder how many here know Perl/RegX. My guess is a lot. :-) -John - -- ReaderBoards.com Building a Community of call center industry people. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Oct 2000 15:39:15 -0400 From: "Peter F. Dubuque" Subject: Re: Al Gore And The Internet In accordance with the prophecy, John Repici wrote: > re: "if someone like Vint Cerf gives him > credit for his work in supporting and promoting the Internet in Congress" > Where do you see any CREDIBLE evidence that this has happened? http://www.wcom.com/about_the_company/cerfs_up/internet_history/q_and_a.phtml I suppose it's not inconceivable that someone from the Gore campaign hacked into Cerf's company's website and forged this page, and that Cerf is unaware of it, but let's just assume that these are Cerf's words until we get a public repudiation of them by the man himself. Occam's razor and all that, you know. > How long have you been reading newsgroup messages? Seven years, give or take a few months. I'm smart enough to not believe everything (or anything really) that appears in a newsgroup without outside corroboration, so give me a little credit. - -- Peter F. Dubuque - peterd@shore.net - Enemy of Reason(TM) O- - -- The Telecom Digest is currently robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Oct 2000 16:37:43 -0400 From: Joel B Levin Subject: Re: Al Gore and the Internet In <8sf5sf$hai$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Fred Goldstein wrote: }He said he, as a Congress member, "took the initiative" in creating the }Internet. In Congress, an "initiative" is a funding effort. Gore led }the effort to get funding for NSFnet in 1987. Before then, there was an }ARPAnet open only to defense contractors and a blessed few others. }NSFnet was a major expansion of the federally-funded Internet to include }universities nationwide. NSFnet evolved into the core of the commercial }Internet, when commercialization was opened in 1993 or so. Three of the }NSFnet regional member nets (NEARnet, BARRNET and SURAnet) were, for }instance, purchased by the late BBN Corp; they became much of what's now }Genuity. The NSFnet backbone grew, in some way or other, into what }became MCI's and now C&W's backbone, and into what became ANS, now part }of Worldcom's backbone. (That part, from the mid-90s, gets really }confusing.) Some backing for this point of view, that Gore "took the initiative" in creating the Internet, comes from someone who can hardly be called a supporter of Gore or the Democrats. Last month, Newt Gringrich spoke in a colloquium for the American Political Science Association, broadcast live on C-SPAN. He had this to say: "In all fairness, it’s something Gore had worked on a long time. Gore is not the Father of the Internet, but in all fairness Gore is the person who, in the Congress, most systematically worked to make sure that we got to an Internet, and the truth is—and I worked with him starting in 1978 when I got there, we were both part of a “futures group”—the fact is, in the Clinton administration the world we had talked about in the ’80s began to actually happen. You can see it in your own life, between the Internet, the computer, the cell phone." - -- The Telecom Digest is currently robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Oct 2000 17:25:23 -0400 From: Monty Solomon Subject: Telephone Briefing on Third Generation Wireless Technology THE WHITE HOUSE Office of the Press Secretary ________________________________________________________________________ For Immediate Release October 13, 2000 TELEPHONE PRESS BRIEFING ON THIRD GENERATION WIRELESS TECHNOLOGY BY TOM KALIL, SPECIAL ASSISTANT TO THE PRESIDENT MARTIN BAILY, CHAIRMAN OF THE PRESIDENT'S COUNCIL OF ECONOMIC ADVISORS, GREG ROHDE, ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF COMMERCE FOR COMMUNICATION AND INFORMATION, LINTON WELLS, DEPUTY ASSISTANT FOR SECRETARY OF DEFENSE AND WILLIAM KENNARD, CHAIRMAN OF THE FCC http://www.pub.whitehouse.gov/uri-res/I2R?urn:pdi://oma.eop.gov.us/2000/10/16/11.text.1 - -- The Telecom Digest is currently robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Oct 2000 17:38:49 -0400 From: Tony Vullo Subject: RE: Al Gore And The Internet (Hoax?) This *MUST* be a hoax. I do not believe that Messrs. Kahn and Cerf would communicate with this forum via the unlikely e-mail address of "nonvalid_email@yahoo.com". - -----Original Message----- Date: 14 Oct 2000 08:35:44 -0400 From: Outsider Subject: Al Gore And The Internet Al Gore And The Internet "By Robert Kahn and Vinton Cerf"? - ----[ Start of Blather ]---- Blather deleted to reduce nausea. - -----[ End of Blather ]----- - -- The Telecom Digest is currently robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Oct 2000 18:13:19 -0400 From: Joel B Levin Subject: Re: Al Gore And The Internet (Hoax?) In <000001c037a7$10eff000$327b20a6@mcit.com>, Tony Vullo wrote: }This *MUST* be a hoax. I do not believe that Messrs. Kahn and Cerf would }communicate with this forum via the unlikely e-mail address of }"nonvalid_email@yahoo.com". The posted article does not claim that the content was written by the poster, but rather that the (anonymous) poster was posting something that had been written by Drs. Kahn and Cerf. Mr. Dubuque has elsewhere posted evidence* at least that Vint would support the factual content of that article, whether he cowrote it or not. /JBL * a reference to http://www.wcom.com/about_the_company/cerfs_up/internet_history/q_and_a.phtml perhaps 2/3 down the page. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Oct 2000 18:37:04 -0400 From: Linc Madison Subject: Re: FCC adopts rules to open phone competition in apartments, off ices In article <51ED3F5356D8D011A0B1006097C30734035BE9B5@MARTINIQUE>, Green, Andrew wrote: > >> The building owners still have total control over which > >> telecom services enter the building, who is permitted in > >> his risers, and who is allowed roof space, which is as > >> it should be. > > > > AS IT SHOULD BE?? No, that's absurd. The owner of my > > apartment building should not have the right to restrict > > my choice of telecommunications companies to provide my > > local service. That's absolutely unreasonable and flat-out > > unjustifiable. > > Linc, I agree with you in the abstract, but realistically the > property belongs to the owner, and the owner gets to say who is > allowed to drill holes in it. As a renter you simply don't get to go > ordering products and services that require physical alterations to > property that you don't own, and all the huffing and puffing in the > world isn't going to change that. It's even in your lease: You don't > get to redecorate the lobby, order new washers and dryers for the > laundry room, or bang your own satellite dish on the roof. The > restriction on telecommunication services to tenants is based on the > physical access that's being granted by the owner, and if s/he > doesn't want to allow a competing provider to move in, you're free to > move elsewhere. My getting telecommunications services from a different vendor does not necessarily involve ANY physical alterations to the property. When physical alterations are necessary, they are often very minor. Further, in many cases, the restrictions placed on tenants' choice of services have NOTHING to do with physical alterations to the property, nor with access restrictions. They have to do with KICKBACKS from the landlord-selected monopoly company to the landlord at the expense of the tenant. There is no reasonable basis for such a regime. The landlord can set reasonable, competitively neutral requirements that apply equally to ALL vendors. No problem there. If my landlord doesn't want to allow a competing provider to move in, without some evidence of refusal or inability of the vendor to meet those reasonable requirements, I should be free to SUE THE LANDLORD. Period. > > Neither is it the building owner's responsibility (nor > > right) to decide on behalf of the tenants who shall provide > > telecommunications services. > > > > I'm buying the service, I'm paying the bills, *I* have the > > right to choose the provider. Period. > > Where it affects his building or, by extension, the others living > there, he gets to impose certain limits. You will note, for example, > that nowhere is a building owner dictating what brand of cellular > service must be used. "Certain limits," yes, but not capricious limits, nor limits whose sole purpose is to line the landlord's pockets at the expense of the tenant. To put it another way, where it DOES NOT affect the building, nor, by extension, the other tenants, the landlord DOES NOT get to impose ANY limits. The status quo allows him to impose any limits he wants. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ End of Telecom Digest V2000 #90 *******************************