Return-Path: Received: by massis.lcs.mit.edu (8.7.4/NSCS-1.0S) id UAA05254; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 20:27:31 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 20:27:31 -0500 (EST) From: editor@telecom-digest.org Message-Id: <199712170127.UAA05254@massis.lcs.mit.edu> To: ptownson Subject: TELECOM Digest V17 #350 TELECOM Digest Tue, 16 Dec 97 20:26:00 EST Volume 17 : Issue 350 Inside This Issue: Editor: Patrick A. Townson Re: Let Local Competitors Build Their Own Local Loop Plant (John Levine) Re: Let Local Competitors Build Their Own Local Loop Plant (Nick Marino) Re: Multi-Line Digital Phone Systems - and a Modem (Christopher Faylor) Re: Multi-Line Digital Phone Systems - and a Modem (Christopher Boone) Re: Beware Call Answering (Alan Boritz) Re: Beware Call Answering (David Willingham) Re: Beware Call Answering (Anton Sherwood) Re: FCC Response to Complaint on Pay phone Owner Surcharges (Pat Miller) Re: FCC Response to Complaint on Payphone Owner Surcharges (Jack Decker) How to Connect a Phone to an Amp or Tape? (Manuel Ladas) Wanted to Buy: Phone System (Kobi) Trade Association References Wanted (Randy Hiser) Listing of CLECs in Texas Wanted (Peter Nayland Kust) TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly but not exclusively to telecommunications topics. It is circulated anywhere there is email, in addition to various telecom forums on a variety of public service systems and networks including Compuserve and America On Line. It is also gatewayed to Usenet where it appears as the moderated newsgroup 'comp.dcom.telecom'. Subscriptions are available to qualified organizations and individual readers. Write and tell us how you qualify: * telecom-request@telecom-digest.org * The Digest is edited, published and compilation-copyrighted by Patrick Townson of Skokie, Illinois USA. You can reach us by postal mail, fax or phone at: Post Office Box 4621 Skokie, IL USA 60076 Phone: 847-727-5427 Fax: 773-539-4630 ** Article submission address: editor@telecom-digest.org ** Our archives are available for your review/research. The URL is: http://telecom-digest.org They can also be accessed using anonymous ftp: ftp hyperarchive.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives/archives (or use our mirror site: ftp ftp.epix.net/pub/telecom-archives) A third method is the Telecom Email Information Service: Send a note to archives@telecom-digest.org to receive a help file for using this method or write me and ask for a copy of the help file for the Telecom Archives. ************************************************************************* * TELECOM Digest is partially funded by a grant from the * * International Telecommunication Union (ITU) in Geneva, Switzerland * * under the aegis of its Telecom Information Exchange Services (TIES) * * project. Views expressed herein should not be construed as represent-* * ing views of the ITU. * ************************************************************************* In addition, a gift from Mike Sandman, Chicago's Telecom Expert has enabled me to replace some obsolete computer equipment and enter the 21st century sort of on schedule. His mail order telephone parts/supplies service based in the Chicago area has been widely recognized by Digest readers as a reliable and very inexpensive source of telecom-related equipment. Please request a free catalog today at http://www.sandman.com --------------------------------------------------------------- Finally, the Digest is funded by gifts from generous readers such as yourself who provide funding in amounts deemed appropriate. Your help is important and appreciated. A suggested donation of twenty dollars per year per reader is considered appropriate. See our address above. Please make at least a single donation to cover the cost of processing your name to the mailing list. All opinions expressed herein are deemed to be those of the author. Any organizations listed are for identification purposes only and messages should not be considered any official expression by the organization. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 16 Dec 1997 05:51:03 -0000 From: johnl@iecc.com (John R. Levine) Subject: Re: Let Local Competitors Build Their Own Local Loop Plant Organization: I.E.C.C., Trumansburg, N.Y. > Perhaps if the government had taken control, we would have a decent > telephone 'backbone' and energetic, competitive companies offering > services using it. We'll never know. Well, actually, the government did take over the phone system from 1918-1919. Can't say as it improved things much. Most countries outside of North America had (many still have) government telephone monopolies which uniformly provided mediocre service at high prices. But there's the germ of a good idea here: the issue isn't so much who owns the local phone wires, it's that you don't want the local wires under the control of the same people who own the phone switch. Rochester N.Y. happens to be the largest city in the U.S. that never had a Bell as the local phone company. A few years ago, the the local telco split itself in half, with one part owning the phone wires and the other part owning the other stuff. (The other stuff also includes a bunch of long distance and cellular properties, it's now called Frontier.) This offered a lot more level playing field to new entrants, since they had to make a deal with the phone wire company to get access to local pairs, but not with one of their competitors. I haven't heard much lately about how well this is working. Perhaps a reader in Rochester can report on it. John R. Levine, IECC, POB 640 Trumansburg NY 14886 +1 607 387 6869 johnl@iecc.com Village Trustee and Sewer Commissioner, http://iecc.com/johnl Finger for PGP key, f'print = 3A 5B D0 3F D9 A0 6A A4 2D AC 1E 9E A6 36 A3 47 ------------------------------ From: Nicholas Marino Subject: Re: Let Local Competitors Build Their Own Local Loop Plant Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 08:58:20 -0500 Lee Winson wrote: > The local loop was built with the INVESTOR'S money, not the public. The government gave these investors a guaranteed profit by virtue of insuring a monopoly. If I was builing a competitive local loop today and was able to offer a guaranteed return to my investors, I'd have no trouble attacting investors and we would have a competitive local loop, but obviously that's not the case. > The rest of the world has government ownership, and the US always > had the best phone system. Several other posters have commented on the failings of foreign government owned PTTs. First, they have not all been failures. Second, you can't compare a open, democratic, capitalistic society like the US with other countries. Companies operating in the US have economic incentives that don't exist in many other places. ------------------------------ From: cgf@bbc.com (Christopher Faylor) Subject: Re: Multi-Line Digital Phone Systems - and a Modem Date: 16 Dec 1997 03:04:07 GMT Organization: Boston Business Computing, Ltd. In article , Jerome R. Kalisz wrote: > I just started browsing your archives. A lot of good info there. > Maybe you could help me in my search. I'm a member of a non profit > organization (toastmasters) that needs to hook a modem up to the phone > system in our meeting room. However, there are no fax/data ports > available; only multi-line phones on a digital key system. I don't > know of any way to tap into such a system inexpesnviely to bring out a > single jack into which I might plug the modem. > There might be a handset amplifier, but mail order ones are expensive, > and not guaranteed to work (plus take a while to get here). I wonder if > I could build one? > In any case, do you know which of your articles might have some good > info on this? It would be much appreciated! I have a device that I use from time to time which connects to the handset portion of a digital phone. You then plug the handset and modem into the device. You use the handset as normal. To use the modem, you pick up the handset, press '9' (or whatever) to get an outside line, and then let the modem dial as normal. This works fairly well. I've managed to make 28.8K connections using this setup. I believe that I got this from the "Hello Direct" catalog. http://www.bbc.com/ cgf@bbc.com "Strange how unreal VMS=>UNIX Solutions Boston Business Computing the real can be." [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Hello Direct is a mail order company specializing in telecom equipment. I've not heard from them in quite awhile so I will give their toll-free number in case anyone wants to obtain a recent catalog: 800-HI-HELLO. They have good stuff, although I thought some of their prices were a bit high. PAT] ------------------------------ From: Christopher W. Boone Subject: Re: Multi-Line Digital Phone Systems - and a Modem Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 13:58:51 -0600 Organization: The Walt Disney Company / ABC Radio Networks Engineering Dept Reply-To: cboone@earthlink.net Jerome R. Kalisz wrote: > I'm a member of a non profit > organization (toastmasters) that needs to hook a modem up to the phone > system in our meeting room. However, there are no fax/data ports > available; only multi-line phones on a digital key system. I don't > know of any way to tap into such a system inexpesnviely to bring out a > single jack into which I might plug the modem. Depends ... what kind of KSU is it? Some like a Comdial etc, cannot supply Tip/Ring analog pair to a modem ... only to the digital phone (which in Comdial's case, uses digital signaling BUT analog talk path; yet no way to hook up a modem to it). There are some aftermarket boxes that allow a modem to be inserted in the HANDSET cord of the digital phone (which of course happens to be an ANALOG spot in the ckt). Let me know more info on what phone system you have and what type/brand of modem; that will help. Chris ------------------------------ From: aboritz@CYBERNEX.NET (Alan Boritz) Subject: Re: Beware Call Answering Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 23:41:47 -0500 In article , Dan Pearl wrote: > "Call Answering" is Bell Atlantic's name for the answering machine > that they have in their switch. Today, after about one month of not > hearing any stuttering dial tone (which indicates a waiting message), > I get the stutter. > When I dial in for messages, I am astonished to hear 16 previously > unheard messages going back to early November. I have the same service from Bell Atlantic at my office in Jersey City, NJ. It only functions about 1/3 of the time. During the past three weeks, it either didn't answer at all, or it took messages and did not give the stuttering dialtone notification. The remote access number also frequently doesn't answer, or it will answer and hang up quickly. We also frequently will get someone's mailbox when calling the remote access number (instead of the voice prompt). I intend to file a complaint with the NJ Public Utilities Commission if it happens again. We have the service on two hunting ddco's. I was going to cancel the service on the first line, but apparently we gain the added feature of being able to program the number of rings before bouncing to the second line, by having it on both lines with call-forward-on-no-answer active. Although there's a mailbox on the first line, all unanswered calls are merely call-forwarded to the second line after two rings (which is ok). I discovered that back in April, another Bell Atlantic screw-up allowed messages to be left on the first mailbox, instead of bouncing the callers to the mailbox on the second line. > The Call Answering specialist at Bell Atlantic says that there is a > problem if I don't have the latest central office hardware. (I have > 5ESS, the same as she does at her home.) She recommends that if a few > days go by, and I don't hear any stutters, then I should call repair > service, and the programmer will restore the stutter. No, that's not the way it works. *Each* time it happens, call it in for repair. If they don't fix it by the time they gave you, call your state's regulatory agency and file an informal complaint. Then someone from the carrier's president's office will follow up for you. Do that *each* time they miss a repair. Don't forget, Bell Atlantic's manager's salary increases are often tied somehow to public utilities commission complaints. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 17:50:16 -0500 From: we202c3f@aol.com (David Willingham) Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: Beware Call Answering Jay Ashworth corrected the Moderator: > Pat, that's a switch for _pager_ notification; I've never heard of a > telco voicemail system where the stutter was switchable. Jay -- I have Memory Call service from BellSouth and indeed the user options menu gives "turn notification on or off;" when selected it prompts "turn message waiting indicator on " etc. WE202C3F@aol.com David Willingham ------------------------------ From: dasher@netcom.com (Anton Sherwood) Subject: Re: Beware Call Answering Organization: That would be telling. Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 02:12:27 GMT Dan Pearl writes > "Call Answering" is Bell Atlantic's name for the answering machine > that they have in their switch. Today, after about one month of not > hearing any stuttering dial tone (which indicates a waiting message), > I get the stutter. > When I dial in for messages, I am astonished to hear 16 previously > unheard messages going back to early November. Ugh. Pacific Bell calls it The Message Center. One of its selling points is that roommates can have their messages stored separately; so, for example, the recording at my former flat said for awhile "Hit 1 to record a message for George, 2 for Anton, 3 for Tom." When I tried to record a message from outside, I was likely to hear "2 is not a recording option." When George moved out I had the extra extensions turned off. Anton Sherwood *\\* +1 415 267 0685 *\\* DASher at netcom point com "How'd ya like to climb this high WITHOUT no mountain?" --Porky Pine 70.6.19 ------------------------------ From: Pat Miller Subject: Re: FCC Response to Complaint on Pay phone Owner Surcharges Date: 15 Dec 1997 16:46:35 GMT Organization: Telephone Answerette Systems Inc. There has been a great big discussion on the e issue of pay phones: their marketplace, charges, rules (limitations/restrictions), etc. Pay/public phones or something like them will probably be around for a long time to come, but I think that the biggest thing that has happened here is that there is a push for mobile phones. I am not saying that the wireless companies (or their realities) did or did not lobby (and possibly put $$$ in the policy makers pocket) ... What I am saying is that no matter what has happened is that more people will switch to mobile phones. After all the price for a wireless is getting low. After I have paid my basic rate, the cost for the average pay phone call is becoming more expensive than a call on my wireless. The length of calls may change. Not only will the local call become cheaper, but the local calling area is often larger with wireless, and you can choose your long distance provider. (Or at least your wireless provider) Now it may become convenient to get a wireless. After all you are not teathered; you need not spend a long time looking for a phone -- maybe a place to talk -- that place may even be a phone booth (will there now be booths at establishments that have no phone?) As a continuation to the convince factor, many 800 number owners are deciding not to accept calls from pay phones, and to place a call to these numbers many may choose to go wireless when not at home. These factors will snowball to the extent that fewer pay phones will exist. Pat Miller--Communications Consult+ full/expanded info on web/finger email/finger pmiller@tas-kc.com | http://www.nyx.net/~pmiller backup finger pmiller@nox.nyx.net | email pmiller@nyx.net voiceONEnumber 816-523-2474 | fax 816-968-968-5 (you-you5) ---------------------------------+Heartland TEC #145 155 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 14:57:56 -0500 From: Jack Decker Subject: Re: FCC Response to Complaint on Payphone Owner Surcharges Let me just mention the obvious here: Sometimes you DON'T have the option of shopping for a lower-priced payphone. Of course, some folks would insist that you always have that option. But I would suggest that you don't have the option if the cost of using another payphone exceeds any potential savings by a significant factor, or if the competitive payphone is unreachable due to time or distance constraints, or if there is some social/legal reason that one cannot leave the premises where a payphone is installed. Some examples: Airports: If all the payphones in an airport terminal are contracted to one company, most people are hardly in a position to leave the airport to use another phone, particularly if they are waiting for a flight. Hospitals: This is a particularly nasty situation because often people are caught at the time they need to make a call quickly. Further, I've noticed that all the hospitals in this area have signs at all doorways saying that the use of cellular phones are prohibited within the hospital, because they might adversely affect hospital equipment. The suspicious side of me says that the real reason is that they want to force people to use their ripoff payphones. I wonder if this is a common practice in hospitals across the country, or if the locals are just being especially money-grubbing? Schools: Another place where people can be caught in a real bind. In high schools and below, students may be prohibited from leaving the building when school is in session. And in institutions of higher learning, the campus may be so large that people simply don't have the time to leave campus to find a lower-priced pay phone. Jails: You might say, "Why SHOULDN'T prisoners be penalized for making calls, after all, the point of a jail is to punish people" but bear in mind two things: First, sometimes people are held in jail awaiting trial, and are later found innocent. Second, it's often not the prisoner that pays the inflated rates, but rather the people that they call (often family members who are completely innocent of any crime). If you want more examples, just think of any place where people are under tight time constraints (transportation facilities such as subway terminals and even some city bus stops come to mind) or in large complexes where they'd have to travel quite a distance to find another phone. So even though I normally favor deregulation, I think that the problem here is exactly what has been pointed out by others: The normal marketplace dynamic is skewed because the people who use the service often don't have effective choice. Granted that the same thing happens when there is a lack of competition in any other product or service, but most things are higher priced than a phone call so in those cases you can travel further and still save money (you might drive two miles to get a box of cereal for $1.50 instead of the normal $3.00, but you probably wouldn't drive two miles to make a phone call for 25 cents instead of 50 cents, evemn though the percentage of savings is exactly the same), and most other products and services aren't as time sensitive as a phone call (often, when you need to make a call, you need to make it NOW). There is ample precedent for price regulation on services that have limited competition (passenger fares in the transportation industry are but one example, and we've all seen how people in less populated areas were disadvantaged by airline fare deregulation). It will be interesting to see what comes of all this, but might guess is that pay phone deregulation is the best thing that could have happened for the cellular and PCS industries. I wouldn't be surprised if, barring some change in the present course of events, in ten years a pay phone will be considered a relic from a bygone age! Jack ------------------------------ From: Manuel Ladas Subject: How to Connect a Phone to an Amp or Tape? Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 23:11:30 GMT Organization: Westfaelische Wilhelms-Universitaet Muenster, Germany Hi all, I'm desperately searching for a phone that has audio inputs and outputs. In other words: I want to connect the phone to a mixer or a tape (via an audio output) _and_ connect an external microphone or even an effect processor to the phone (via an input). My questions: - Are there any phones which can do that? - Are there any devices you can put on the phone that pick up the signals and have ins/outs themselves? They used to have such things before there were modems, but I guess they are not suitable for audio? - Are there any kits available to modify an existing phone to give it input / output jacks? - If all these things do not exist: How can I build such a solution myself? Connecting the amp directly does not work, it results in a loud humming noise and nothing else... But: There _must_ be a solution. In phone-in-shows on TV and radio they get the phone audio on their mixers all the time! Thanks in advance for any hints! Manuel ------------------------------ From: Kobi@LDD.COM (Kobi) Subject: Want to Buy Phone System Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 20:12:34 GMT Organization: LDD Reply-To: Kobi@LDD.COM I am looking for a good small office phone system for my office (New/DEMO/Used). Need capability for 6-8 incoming lines and 12 or so stations. (Need speakerphone on 2 units). Voice mail, Auto Attendent, and music on hold. Currently have a 4 line Merlin. PLEASE RESPOND TO: LEADDOG at L L D . COM or CALL 212.462.4066 ------------------------------ From: Randy Hiser Subject: Seeking Trade Associations Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 17:36:51 +0300 Organization: Netcom Hi all, I'm currently looking for any reputable professional/trade organizations that are associated with videoconferencing, telecommunications and/or computers open to the public. Your recommendations are greatly appreciated. ------------------------------ From: pkust@swhell.net (Peter Nayland Kust) Subject: CLECs in Texas Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 02:53:43 GMT Organization: All USENET -- http://www.Supernews.com Does anyone know of any CLECs or CAPs currently serving any part of the state of Texas? I'm creating a web site to a) protest the outrageous abuses Southwestern Bell and other telopolies are visiting on their customers and b) provide people with information and resources about their telephone service. So far, I'm finding very little information about competitors to SWBell that are offering dialtone NOW, and I want to make sure I'm not overlooking anything. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. Take care and God Bless, Peter Nayland Kust |"You can choose from Phantom Fears Southwestern Hell | or Kindness that can Kill http://www.swhell.net |I will choose a Path that's Clear; | I will choose Free Will" pkust@swhell.net | -- Neil Peart ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V17 #350 ******************************