Return-Path: Received: by massis.lcs.mit.edu (8.7.4/NSCS-1.0S) id UAA21351; Sat, 27 Sep 1997 20:49:06 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 20:49:06 -0400 (EDT) From: editor@telecom-digest.org Message-Id: <199709280049.UAA21351@massis.lcs.mit.edu> To: ptownson Subject: TELECOM Digest V17 #263 TELECOM Digest Sat, 27 Sep 97 20:49:00 EDT Volume 17 : Issue 263 Inside This Issue: Editor: Patrick A. Townson Re: Spamford Leaving Won't Solve the Problem (Michael P. Deignan) Re: Spamford Leaving Won't Solve the Problem (Mark W. Schumann) Re: Spamford Leaving Won't Solve the Problem (Robb Topolski) Re: Spamford Leaving Won't Solve the Problem (Bill Garfield) Re: Spamford Leaving Won't Solve the Problem (Trey Valenta) Re: Spamford Leaving Won't Solve the Problem (Jim Youll) Re: AGIS Pulls Plug on Cyberpromo Due to Ping Attack (amp@pobox.com) Re: AGIS Pulls Plug on Cyberpromo Due to Ping Attack (Steven Lichter) Spamford Rides Again! (Richard M. Sander) Moron Spammer Provides Toll Free Number (Babu Mengelepouti) Re: DNS Scheme For All Telephone Numbers in NANP? (Derek Balling) Re: DNS Scheme For All Telephone Numbers in NANP? (Barry Margolin) Re: Suspense: Sorry, Wrong Number - Yesterday and Today (Ryan Tucker) Re: Suspense: Sorry, Wrong Number - Yesterday and Today (Bear) TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly but not exclusively to telecommunications topics. It is circulated anywhere there is email, in addition to various telecom forums on a variety of public service systems and networks including Compuserve and America On Line. It is also gatewayed to Usenet where it appears as the moderated newsgroup 'comp.dcom.telecom'. Subscriptions are available to qualified organizations and individual readers. Write and tell us how you qualify: * telecom-request@telecom-digest.org * The Digest is edited, published and compilation-copyrighted by Patrick Townson of Skokie, Illinois USA. You can reach us by postal mail, fax or phone at: Post Office Box 4621 Skokie, IL USA 60076 Phone: 847-727-5427 Fax: 773-539-4630 ** Article submission address: editor@telecom-digest.org ** Our archives are available for your review/research. The URL is: http://telecom-digest.org They can also be accessed using anonymous ftp: ftp hyperarchive.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives/archives (or use our mirror site: ftp ftp.epix.net/pub/telecom-archives) A third method is the Telecom Email Information Service: Send a note to archives@telecom-digest.org to receive a help file for using this method or write me and ask for a copy of the help file for the Telecom Archives. ************************************************************************* * TELECOM Digest is partially funded by a grant from the * * International Telecommunication Union (ITU) in Geneva, Switzerland * * under the aegis of its Telecom Information Exchange Services (TIES) * * project. Views expressed herein should not be construed as represent-* * ing views of the ITU. * ************************************************************************* Finally, the Digest is funded by gifts from generous readers such as yourself who provide funding in amounts deemed appropriate. Your help is important and appreciated. A suggested donation of twenty dollars per year per reader is considered appropriate. See our address above. Please make at least a single donation to cover the cost of processing your name to the mailing list. All opinions expressed herein are deemed to be those of the author. Any organizations listed are for identification purposes only and messages should not be considered any official expression by the organization. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kd1hz@anomaly.ideamation.com.nospam (Michael P. Deignan) Subject: Re: Spamford Leaving Won't Solve the Problem Date: 27 Sep 1997 17:06:07 -0400 Organization: The Ace Tomato Company In article , Eric Florack wrote: > Seems to me that to cure the problem, we need to get across to the > people spending money to have their ads spammed across the net, the > idea that it's not a good PR move. That sounds like a good idea. Are there any databases on the Internet that list companies who use spam as a marketing tool? For instance, a list of company names, telephone/fax numbers, and addresses would be really helpful. If a sizeable number of Internet users spent a few minutes and a few dollars in postage each week, maybe companies providing Spamford with his business would think twice if they got 25,000 letters that all effectively said "it has come to my attention that your company uses spamming as a marketing tool. For this reason, I have added your company to my list of "never buy from" companies." Or, something to that extent. MD ------------------------------ From: catfood@apk.net (Mark W. Schumann) Subject: Re: Spamford Leaving Won't Solve the Problem Date: 27 Sep 1997 19:07:33 -0400 Organization: Akademia Pana Kleksa, Public Access Uni* Site In article , Eric Florack wrote: > Spamford was merely responding to a market that already existed. The > people buying what he was selling, assumed that the reaction to the > ads he posted for them would be responded to with purchases of the > product advertised ... enough to cover the costs Spamford imposed on > those customers. To some large degree, that must be a correct > assumption, given the number of repeat customers I gather he had. Gather what? I don't know he had ANY repeat customers. Sure, he ran their ads more than once, but that doesn't mean the customer was actually paying for the repeat or even wanted it. Image is everything. Mark W. Schumann | catfood@apk.net Why should I change or hide my return address to deter spammers? I just loop the garbage right back at 'em. ------------------------------ From: rmt@bigfoot.com (Robb Topolski) Subject: Re: Spamford Leaving Won't Solve the Problem Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 23:11:42 GMT Organization: KJ7RL On Thu, 25 Sep 1997 10:34:55 PDT, Eric Florack wrote: > Seems to me that to cure the problem, we need to get across to the > people spending money to have their ads spammed across the net, the > idea that it's not a good PR move. I don't know about you but I'm not getting SPAM from Ford, Intel, or Avon. I'm getting SPAM from RGG at Box 14A in Anytown USA. RGG doesn't care about PR. He's happy with the 0.5% of return on 14 million basically free e-mail ads. Robb Topolski Hillsboro, OR ------------------------------ From: wdg@hal-pc.org (Bill Garfield) Subject: Re: Spamford Leaving Won't Solve the Problem Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 17:01:53 GMT Organization: You only wish you were this organized Reply-To: wdg@hal-pc.org On Thu, 25 Sep 1997 10:34:55 PDT, in comp.dcom.telecom Eric Florack wrote: >> Obviously Spamford was one of their leaders, >> but how many of the vermin still remain to be exterminated? Any >> guesstimates? PAT] > That's not the issue. The issue should be: "How many will rise to take > his place?" Perhaps, but hasn't someone now discovered what ammunition is effective in bringing the offending host network to its knees? Spamford's off the air, right? Seems to me what finally took him down could be used to bring him down again and again, as often as it takes. If it works for one, might it not also work for others? It's pretty hard to defend against a router storm. > Spamford was merely responding to a market that already existed. The > people buying what he was selling, assumed that the reaction to the > ads he posted for them would be responded to with purchases of the > product advertised ... enough to cover the costs Spamford imposed on > those customers. To some large degree, that must be a correct > assumption, given the number of repeat customers I gather he had. > Him going away under any conditions is certainly something to raise a > smile. Grinning from ear to ear. > But will it solve the problem, or will someone else come in to take > his place? Oh I'd bet on there arising from Spamford's ashes -several- to fill his void. Though perhaps AGIS might think twice before hosting this type of operation again (burned child fearing the fire syndrome). > Seems to me that to cure the problem, we need to get across to the > people spending money to have their ads spammed across the net, the > idea that it's not a good PR move. You might as well try shoving soft butter up a wildcat's backside. These advertisers are only going to fold their tents when it ceases to be profitable to operate via UCE and usenet. Boycotting and complaining had only minimal results. ------------------------------ From: trey@zipcon.net (Trey Valenta) Subject: Re: Spamford Leaving Won't Solve the Problem Date: 27 Sep 1997 16:42:57 GMT Organization: Alternate Access Inc. > [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Supposedly, Spamford was going to court > to get an order requiring AGIS to reconnect him. Does anyone know the > outcome of that? PAT] He did go to court and hearings lasted about all day. The judge has said that she intends to issue her decision on Monday. Trey Valenta trey@zipcon.net Seattle, WA ------------------------------ From: jim@newmediagroup.com (Jim Youll) Subject: Re: Spamford Leaving Won't Solve the Problem Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 10:55:41 -0400 Organization: Agent Zero Communications Eric Florack wrote: >> Obviously Spamford was one of their leaders, >> but how many of the vermin still remain to be exterminated? Any >> guesstimates? PAT] > That's not the issue. The issue should be: "How many will rise to take > his place?" > Consider: > Spamford was merely responding to a market that already existed. The > people buying what he was selling, assumed that the reaction to the > ads he posted for them would be responded to with purchases of the > product advertised ... enough to cover the costs Spamford imposed on > those customers. To some large degree, that must be a correct > assumption, given the number of repeat customers I gather he had. I disagree. He created a segment of that market by inventing demand (i.e. 'willing recipients' and the myth that people WANT to receive get-rich quick scams and pornos in their e-mail). He also built the business on the premise that "selling" means forcing your message on your victims until they submit and buy your ridiculous product. This is not a legitimate premise for business, and cannot be sustained in any market. > Him going away under any conditions is certainly something to raise a > smile. The flow of trash into my systems is slowed considerably, and I am getting more work done. This is good. > But will it solve the problem, or will someone else come in to take > his place? If someone does, they too will be forced off the net. It's untenable. > Seems to me that to cure the problem, we need to get across to the > people spending money to have their ads spammed across the net, the > idea that it's not a good PR move. Companies that understand anything about PR and marketing do not do this. At the worst, they do it a couple of times and realize they really blew it. And companies that haven't even tried it yet (real companies with real products and real customers) are learning from the mistakes of the first misguided pioneers, and will not be included to follow blindly. You will not see Procter and Gamble sending you ten to twenty ads per week through masked points of origin. Legitimate companies know that antagonizing potential customers DURING THE SOLICITATION is not a particularly good way to actually make a sale. Point made, I guess. Real companies don't do a LOT of things because they have nothing to gain by pissing people off. Sanford's customers have nothing, and so have nothing to lose. It's quite different. ------------------------------ From: amp@pobox.com Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 08:23:10 -0500 Subject: Re: AGIS Pulls Plug on Cyberpromo Due to Ping Attack raphael@willy.cs.mcgill.ca (Louis Raphael) wrote: > Judging by my IN.spam box, I'd say that the latest plug-pulling dealt > with about 1/2 of the spammers (by volume) out there. There aren't > that many spammers -- it's just that they are harmful out of proportion > to their numbers. My IN.spam box receives about 2-3/day, compared to > about 5-10 before 'Promo went down. The spam problem had gotten so bad with my mcimail address, that I finally made use of the filtering options provided by mci to automatically reject all email from the internet. Sounds pretty drastic eh? Considering I'd not sent any email of note from this account for over three years, one would think the spam would eventually taper off, but it just kept increasing. Somehow I got on one of those lists a long time ago (most likely from my PGP key), and it hasn't let up because the address was obviously good. It's good to hear that someone is actually doing what needs to be done to shut Spamford down. Like Pat, I would =never= condone violence against spammers. Nor would I tie them to the back of a train by the neck with a nice, sturdy bit of hemp rope. However, human nature being what it is, I'd advise spammers like Wallace to get good bodyguards that don't have email addresses. (If they used email they'd be too likely to do the scum in themselves). Name: amp E-mail: amp at pobox dot com Date: 09/27/97 Time: 08:23:11 Visit me at http://www.pobox.com/~amp Become an International Arms Trafficker! Forward this sig everywhere! -export-a-crypto-system-sig -RSA-3-lines-PERL #!/bin/perl -sp0777i Subject: Re: AGIS Pulls Plug on Cyberpromo Due to Ping Attack Here is an article that should explain what is about to happen. I have noticed that most of the UCE I get has dropped, but there is still a lot. AGIS PULLS THE PLUG ON BULK E-MAILERS DEARBORN, Mich., Sept. 26 /PRNewswire/ -- Apex Global Internet Services, Inc. (AGIS) the nation's fourth-largest carrier of Internet traffic is the hot topic of discussion after disconnecting several unsolicited, bulk e-mailers late last week for security reasons. "The attacks were of a nature which not only threatened portions of our global, public network, but other parts of the Internet as well," said AGIS CEO Phil Lawlor. "Our engineers simply followed AGIS standard security procedures in shutting their service down." Cyberpromotions filed suit against AGIS in a U.S. District Court in Philadelphia for allegedly breaking its distribution contract. Thursday; Judge Anita Brody heard arguments from both sides before she would make her ruling Monday. AGIS would not comment on the pending litigation, however further comments will be made publicly following the proceedings on Monday. AGIS confirmed that all virtual private networks remained secure. The Company plans to announce more stringent acceptable use policies. AGIS ( www.agis.net ), founded in 1994, provides Internet access to millions of users via its extensive customer base of Regional Bell Operating Companies, content providers, large corporations and Internet Service Providers. Always the technology leader, AGIS was the first National Service Provider to offer commercial 155Mbps connections to the Internet, the first to reduce points of failure in a network by using switching technologies and the first to degign a wholesale business model (so as not to compete with customers by selling retail access). AGIS offers Internet connectivity from 56Kbps to 155Mbps. SOURCE Apex Global Internet Services, Inc. 09/26/97 /CONTACT: Jason Delker of AGIS Public Relations, 313-730-1130/ SysOp Apple Elite II and OggNet Hub (909)359-5338 2400/14.4 24 hours, Home of GBBS/LLUCE Support for the Apple II and Macintoch computers. ------------------------------ From: Richard M. Sander Organization: GLOBALnet/The Sandrose Group, Inc. Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 16:13:07 -0500 Subject: Spamford Rides Again! Hi Pat! Here's the text of a fax we received today from Spamford Looks like he's pulling out all the stops --- text of fax follows --- GOOD TODAY ONLY! [note: we received it at 4:00pm EDT] CYBER PROMOTIONS HALF PRICE ** BLOW OUT** SALE! (proceeds will go towards Cyber Promotions' high profile lawsuit against AGIS who single handedly injured thousands of small business people by disconnecting their lifeline with no prior notice!) All of the following packages are now available on CD-ROM and shipped 2nd day air to your door! EMAIL LIST: 500,000 unblocked, deliverable money-making email addresses. Compatible with all popular email programs. Cyber Promotions has carefully selected these names of people who have not asked to be removed from email solicitation lists. Get these lists today, and make big money tomorrow! HALF PRICE --> $249 LIST X: Collect thousands of targeted email addresses every hour with this unbelievable software! Now you can harvest web *surfers* too! You won't believe the features included with this package! HALF PRICE --> $174 STEALTH BOMBER: Send out 50,000 emails an hour while cloaking your account id. This is the ultimate mass mailer! HALF PRICE --> $499 CALL NOW! THIS SALE IS GOOD TODAY ONLY! CALL 215-628-9780 and ask for BRIAN or ALAN! Help support the fight to do business through email! --- end of fax --- Need I say more? GLOBALnet is a division of The Sandrose Group, Inc. 2870 Peachtree Road NW * Atlanta GA 30305-2918 USA +1 770 801-1998 Fax: +1 770 434-7569 http://www.sandrose.com [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: So let's all call 215-628-9780 and talk to Brian or Alan ... in a non-threatening, non-violent way of course. PAT] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 23:58:51 -0400 From: Babu Mengelepouti Reply-To: dialtone@vcn.bc.ca Organization: US Secret Service Subject: Moron Spammer Provides Toll Free Number Well, how kind of this spammer to give us not only a toll free number but a valid email address to contact him ... Return-Path: Received: from vcn.bc.ca (root@opus.vcn.bc.ca [207.102.64.2]) by m-net.arbornet.org (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id XAA16637 for ; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 23:34:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from emerald.accessv.com (root@emerald.accessv.com [206.221.248.8]) by vcn.bc.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA17488 for ; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 19:03:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mhady (port091-86.accessv.com [209.50.86.91]) by emerald.accessv.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA17338 for ; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 22:03:35 -0400 Message-ID: <3429F08F.33CE@accessv.com> Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 22:03:11 -0700 X-UIDL: 875300501.001 From: Maher Hady Reply-To: mhady@accessv.com Organization: Trade Gate Co. To: dialtone@vcn.bc.ca Subject: Additional Income helps! Dear Babu, I would Like to introduce Alive International manufacturer and distributer of superior products for The exploding health and nutrition industry. I'm a mechanical Engineer having my own company for Export to the Arabian Gulf. I joined Alive International as an executive Advisor and I started doing this business through the Internet this really helped me to build a steady income online, Have the Internet work for you while you sleep! [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Somehow I 'accidentally' erased most of this message while editing this issue ... so sorry! Oh well, I did save the most important part; his name, address and phone. PAT] For more information Visit my web site: http://www.accessv.com/~mhady/alive/ or - Send me an E-Mail: mhady@accessv.com or - Send a Fax to : (416) 352 5095 or you can call the Toll Free FAX on demand: 1- 800-750-8781 Maher Hady Toronto, Canada ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 10:18:34 -0500 From: Derek Balling Subject: Re: DNS Scheme For All Telephone Numbers in NANP? > It seems like a good solution, yet I have to wonder about the network > load associated with such a plan. Looking up every single number, > every time a call is placed would be a massive job. For instance, > think about a radio contest, or tickets to a Rolling Stones concert > going on sale -- every caller requires a lookup for the exact same > number, thousands or tens of thousands of times every minute. This is > on top of the normal call volume traffic. So you handle it the same way the current DNS system works, with cached versions of the numbers, with say a 12 or 24 hour lifetime before re-lookups are required. > Consider, also, that we are looking up every single number to satisfy > the desire of a small number of people who are only willing to change > phone companies IF they can keep their old number. IF the service > they are receiving is so bad today, or IF the new entrant's offer is > compelling enough to change, we wouldn't need local number > portability, but let's face it -- in most cases the service will be > over the same outside plant facilities, maintained by the same > technicians with the same level of training and the same level of > desire to do a good job and only the switch will be different. > Consequently the level service won't change. And the new entrant's > offer may be better, but only marginally so. True but using national databases of this system as opposed to local ones, you could eliminate the problems caused by small rural areas using 2% of their exchange. (e.g. map the dialed number to a CKT-ID#, and you can spread that underused exchange over a couple different CO's) You could also, if implemented on a national scale, allow TRUE number portability - something like the NPA-500 numbers were. You have your number, and its yours, take it wherever you want, just update the "Database" when you get to your new home, and the calls to your number are now mapped to your NEW house instead of your old, regardless of where you move. Does that require a little "rethinking" in terms of how people think and dial? Yes. But think about it this way -- by mapping a telephone number to a circuit ID using a databasing system like that, the database query could return back all sorts of information -- toll or local, mileage, rate information, and PBX's could be programmed just ONCE how to react. No more dealing with AC splits and having to reprogram your PBX every six months. Your PBX behaves just like it always has -- It queries the number, gets the CKT-ID [and presumably a path of how to connect to it], the rate information, etc. and confirms whether or not to complete the call based on the PBX's programming. For consumers afraid of making accidental long distance calls, the system could simply sound a tone upon completion of the lookup, indicating that the call is free or local, or some other way to be determined. Just a thought. Derek J. Balling dredd@megacity.org http://www.megacity.org/ ------------------------------ From: Barry Margolin Subject: Re: Re DNS Scheme For All Telephone Numbers in NANP? Date: 27 Sep 1997 12:45:58 -0400 Organization: GTE Internetworking, Cambridge, MA In article , Dave Stott wrote: > think about a radio contest, or tickets to a Rolling Stones concert > going on sale -- every caller requires a lookup for the exact same > number, thousands or tens of thousands of times every minute. This is > on top of the normal call volume traffic. Caching is your friend. That's how the DNS system works. Once a CO looks up a number in the central database, it can keep it in memory for a while. So if thousands of people in the same area are calling the same number it shouldn't require thousands of database lookups. > Consider, also, that we are looking up every single number to satisfy > the desire of a small number of people who are only willing to change > phone companies IF they can keep their old number. Unless they expect ported numbers to be extremely common, it seems to me that a better scheme might be to distribute a list of ported numbers to all the CO's periodically. The CO would check for the dialed number in this list; if it's not found it will route the call based on the prefixes. Barry Margolin, barmar@bbnplanet.com GTE Internetworking, Powered by BBN, Cambridge, MA Support the anti-spam movement; see Please don't send technical questions directly to me, post them to newsgroups. ------------------------------ From: rtucker@crasher2.ttgcitn.com (Ryan Tucker) Subject: Re: Suspense: Sorry, Wrong Number - Yesterday and Today Date: 26 Sep 1997 22:29:25 GMT Organization: TTGCITN Communications, Des Moines, Iowa (www.ttgcitn.com) On Thu, 25 Sep 1997 18:18:20 -0500, Mark J. Cuccia spewed: > Also, I have described the story as I have heard it on several of its > performances by Agnes Morehead on Suspense. A motion picture version > of "Sorry, Wrong Number" was also done, starring Miss Barbara > Stanwyck. who also starred in the "Lux Radio Theater" recreation of I decided to check on that, and it looks like it's playing on Turner Classic Movies on October 19th at 8:30pm Central: Sorry, Wrong Number (Suspense) A wealthy hypochondriac overhears a murder plot. (B/W) Barbara Stanwyck, Burt Lancaster. (1948) (1 hr. 29 mins.) TCM - 119 Oct 19 (8:30P) If you don't get Turner Classic Movies, then call your local cable or satellite operator, yadda yadda. *grin*... -rt Ryan Tucker http://www.ttgcitn.com/~rtucker/ UIN: 1976881 finger rtucker@ttgcitn.com for PGP pub key/contact info there's something quite bizarre i cannot see.. -Mansun/Wide Open Space Origin address not hidden. Why? http://www.internz.com/SpamBeGone/ ------------------------------ From: Bear Subject: Re: Suspense: Sorry, Wrong Number - Yesterday and Today Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 09:35:43 -0700 Organization: Sherwood Forest. Delete 'army' to reply by email Mark J. Cuccia wrote: > I am _NOT_ titling this post with "Last Laugh" as part of the subject > line. While I do intend some sarcasm/irony further down, the > fictitious situation described here is _NOT_ funny. [snip - to save bandwidth] An excellent parody - masterpiece! Thanks Mark. But BTW, I could swear I saw a TV or movie version of this just in the past couple of years. I recall her being in a pink (or white) penguoir type gown. And I have a flash-back of the husband calling from a wall-mounted payphone in an airport or train station corridor. It was bone-chilling. Was there a movie or TV version? Or just getting senile? Bear please note: my "real" email address: eddyj(at)agcs(dot)com ****************************************************** NOTE: My "From" address in *newsgroup* post headers is munged to foil commercial spambots. To reply by e-mail please remove "army" from my ID. ****************************************************** ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V17 #263 ******************************