Subj : Re: C.P. Addition: Isabel de Gressenhall, wife of William de
To   : All
From : CE Wood
Date : Thu Sep 06 2018 03:01 am

From: CE Wood <aquavistawa@gmail.com>

Thank you so much. For ease, _Monasticum Anglicanum_, Volume 5, Vol. 5: Cas=
tle Acre Priory, Num, VII., p. 51, and Num, XIII., p. 52, found at https://=
books.google.com/books?id
VvpAAAAAcAAJ&vq.


CE Wood


On Thursday, September 6, 2018 at 4:01:33 AM UTC-7, Andrew Lancaster wrote:
> That is a good observation Douglas, so that might indeed be where Blomefi=
eld got his second William fitz Roger from, although I see nothing in that =
charter which implies that this was not simply the first William fitz Roger=
 (Wm son of Roger son of Wimer)?
> 
> Isabel was heiress to the Wimer or Gressenhall family, if we can call it =
one of those names, but the charters show that this family had a lot of men=
 appearing in charters in the 12th century, and while we luckily have sever=
al mentions of relationships, we have very few that are dated.
> 
> When Osmund de Stuteville and Isabel made a charter listing a whole serie=
s of predecessors whose charters they wanted to reconfirm  (Castle Acre cha=
rter XIII Monasticon Anglicanum) they are in this sequence: 
> 
> 1. Wimarus senescallus de Gressinghale, [FWIW mostly the word dapifer see=
ms to have been used for his position in the charters.]
> 
> 2. et Rogerus filius ejus, [Charter VII is his for example, where the wit=
ness list includes Walterio fratre meo.]
> 
> 3. et Walterus filius Wimari, [Presumably the one in VII, but also 2 gene=
rations later in X and XII where he also has an adult son William. So he wa=
s alive when Roger fitz William was making charters, even if older. This mi=
ght be another indication that the period when the first William and second=
 Roger were dapifers went relatively quickly. I don't see any sign that he =
was ever dapifer?]
> 
> 4. et Wilielmus filius Rogeri, 
> 
> 5. et Rogerus filius Wilielmi [FWIW in charter XII he names a brother Wil=
liam.]
> 
> 6. et Drogo frater ejus, [Charter IX is by Drogo filius Willielmi dapifer=
i de Gressinghale, who separately calls his father "Willielmus dapifer". So=
 was Drogo ever a dapifer or was he just describing himself based on his fa=
ther's job description? And was he definitely Roger's brother or could he h=
ave been William's?]
> 
> 7. et Berengarius de Cressi
> 
> Berengar is thought to be Isabel's first husband and the list looks inten=
ded to be chronological.
> 
> Best Regards
> Andrew

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