Subj : Re: Democrat Protesters To : Lee Lofaso From : Dan Cross Date : Sun Jun 07 2020 01:19 pm On 06 Jun 2020 at 03:47p, Lee Lofaso pondered and said... LL> Notice I did not mention anything about "oath of office" in my LL> original post. In my next post, to you, I quoted the oath of office LL> for the president, who never served in the military or swore any LL> oath of enlistment/oath for commissioned officers. Stop doubling down when you're wrong: it's not a good look. LL> Just so we are both on the same page, here it is with url - LL> LL> https://history.army.mil/html/faq/oaths.html I already posted a URL. Do you just insist on being right? Okay. You're right. LL> >The UCMJ is quite clear on this: not only do all members LL> >of the military have a right to ignore illegal orders, but LL> >they have an obligation to actively resist those orders. LL> LL> And yet, the joint chiefs of staff went along with their LL> president as he ordered active military to open fire on peaceful LL> protesters (mostly women and children) on church grounds. The LL> soldiers did as they were told, using rubber bullets, pepper LL> spray, and tear gas to mow everybody down. No, that was the National Guard and park police, plus some kind of secret police formed from the Bureau of Prisons. Those were not active duty troops. LL> When the president (as C-in-C) gives a soldier a direct order, LL> that soldier is expected to comply. The president is not going LL> to ask a soldier to go find his/her CO, as the president is at LL> that very moment his/her CO. No. The "soldier" (note, I'm a Marine, not a soldier) is only expected to comply if, and only if, the order is legal. Yes, all members of the US military are given training on legal and illegal orders. Yes, it is explained from entry training onwards that illegal orders are to be actively resisted. LL> Disobeying a direct order, especially during a time of war, can get LL> a soldier shot. Or stripped of rank and privilege. How many would be LL> willing to take that chance? Pretty much all. As I've said now, repeatedly, but for some unfathomable reason you seem incapable of absorbing, servicemembers are under no obligation to follow illegal orders, and ignoring such an order is not considered "disobeying a direct order." LL> I am sure you do know a number of officers you *think* would take LL> exception to what has recently taken place with Trump ordering active LL> military to open fire on peaceful protesters, with the full blessing LL> of his joint chiefs of staff. But how many of those you know actually LL> would, when put to the test? Given that I've seen them do it in combat, I'm willing to bet pretty much all of them wouldn't have a problem telling a 5x draft dodger who considered avoiding STDs in Studio 54 his "personal Vietnam" where to shove it. Gen Milley shouted the president down in the Oval Office the other day. LL> Talk is cheap. Especially when your own head is not on the line. LL> Active duty military, when ordered by their president to do his LL> bidding, will do as they are told. General Honor‚ was and is an LL> honorable man, who did stand up to power when his time of testing LL> came. Told the governor to take a flying hike, rather than have LL> his soldiers fire using live ammunation on kids stealing shoes LL> in department stores. You speak with a confidence that is unwarranted given your ignorance of the matter and overall lack of experience with the subject. You should stop. LL> >And now, respectfully, you should stay in your lane LL> >and shut the fuck up about the military. LL> LL> Silence is complicity. Which is what made Hitler great. I'm pretty sure I've been pretty vocal about what I think about Trump. How dare you evoke Hitler when discussing the US military. You're the douche who posted that you had COVID-19 and then tried to scurry behind a lame excuse of quoting someone. LL> I will not be silent, and neither should anybody else. You have every right to say whatever you want. I have the right to judge you as a sanctimonious ass who's ignorance and arrogance and propensity for writing walls of unintelligible text do more harm to the causes you claim to care about than they do good. LL> We do not need another Hitler. Especially one with orange LL> hair. Even if he doesn't have a funny moustache. Hell, LL> his shade of orange skin is bad enough ... Indeed. Perhaps you can get with the program and actually try and help get rid of the scourge currently occupying the White House? Posting uninformed claptrap about the military isn't helping. --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/05/28 (Windows/32) * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (3:770/100) .