(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Fri Aug 01 00:11:24 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,DKIM_SIGNED,SPF_HELO_PASS,
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
(???) elivery-date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 00:11:24 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Thu, 31 Jul 2008 17:07:55 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from web35701.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([66.163.179.155])
(???) eceived: (qmail 32419 invoked by uid 60001); 31 Jul 2008 22:07:44 -0000
(???) omainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
(???) s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
(???) h=Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Message-ID;
(???) b=vtPxecNeGu2oBGoTX/Z7eu+kKNPpiuShPxoIyMEPwua/ITmsRV6g0MV2cJMRUgZtCpsB1go9x7DEP8/gicTFpKroyWHkf6sDyviC1nkdZemHR3rDyjGmtKhkNrAUW6JHceFZitrXI0Ebpg3APAHUu+pgxNAzVY30F7SBK6tiudY=;
(???) eceived: from [75.148.104.194] by web35701.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 15:07:43 PDT
(???) -Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.218
(???) ate: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 15:07:43 -0700 (PDT)
(???) rom: JumpJet Mailbox <jumpjetinfo@yahoo.com>
(TN3) o: Gopher Mailinglist <gopher@complete.org>
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(???) ontent-type: text/plain
(???) essage-ID: <988905.32400.qm@web35701.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Thu, 31 Jul 2008 17:07:54 -0500
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
(???) -archive-position: 2295
(???) -ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: jumpjetinfo@yahoo.com
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Thu, 31 Jul 2008 17:08:05 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] FYI: Gopher Service Stats Summary
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) -IMAPbase: 1219599774 242
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 1
(???) as anyone seen this?
(???) ccidently ran across this Gopher Service Stats Summary log posted to the web.
(HTM) ttp://www.dna.affrc.go.jp/statistics/gopher.cnt.html
(???)
(???)
(???)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Fri Aug 01 00:11:38 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,DKIM_SIGNED,SPF_HELO_PASS,
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 00:11:38 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Thu, 31 Jul 2008 17:07:55 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from web35701.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([66.163.179.155])
(???) eceived: (qmail 32419 invoked by uid 60001); 31 Jul 2008 22:07:44 -0000
(???) omainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
(???) s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
(???) h=Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Message-ID;
(???) b=vtPxecNeGu2oBGoTX/Z7eu+kKNPpiuShPxoIyMEPwua/ITmsRV6g0MV2cJMRUgZtCpsB1go9x7DEP8/gicTFpKroyWHkf6sDyviC1nkdZemHR3rDyjGmtKhkNrAUW6JHceFZitrXI0Ebpg3APAHUu+pgxNAzVY30F7SBK6tiudY=;
(???) eceived: from [75.148.104.194] by web35701.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 15:07:43 PDT
(???) -Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.218
(???) ate: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 15:07:43 -0700 (PDT)
(???) rom: JumpJet Mailbox <jumpjetinfo@yahoo.com>
(TN3) o: Gopher Mailinglist <gopher@complete.org>
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(???) ontent-type: text/plain
(???) essage-ID: <988905.32400.qm@web35701.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Thu, 31 Jul 2008 17:07:54 -0500
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
(???) -archive-position: 2295
(???) -ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: jumpjetinfo@yahoo.com
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Thu, 31 Jul 2008 17:08:05 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] FYI: Gopher Service Stats Summary
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 2
(???) as anyone seen this?
(???) ccidently ran across this Gopher Service Stats Summary log posted to the web.
(HTM) ttp://www.dna.affrc.go.jp/statistics/gopher.cnt.html
(???)
(???)
(???)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Fri Aug 01 00:12:29 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,DKIM_SIGNED,SPF_HELO_PASS,
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
(???) elivery-date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 00:12:29 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Thu, 31 Jul 2008 17:10:07 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from web35702.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([66.163.179.156])
(???) eceived: (qmail 12756 invoked by uid 60001); 31 Jul 2008 22:09:56 -0000
(???) omainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
(???) s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
(???) h=Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Message-ID;
(???) b=5FMfCBvXLlQfZ6aWCkRSE/LafuW+O197bwp4xlJALDjqlK7Hequ4qSfU8vmkYz/xPj/j8SfohLcnLYT8c2Sh+GaA3H3rbsGXyZNqQJuVesQsr+Vul2Y+nA/ez0SLhXizX5AFb5bSBNnAaMa4icy8iDEMjiJ2Lh2OhIfGSsSKo6U=;
(???) eceived: from [75.148.104.194] by web35702.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 15:09:56 PDT
(???) -Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.218
(???) ate: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 15:09:56 -0700 (PDT)
(???) rom: JumpJet Mailbox <jumpjetinfo@yahoo.com>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <20080731212238.GA17236@A-Eskwadraat.nl>
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(???) ontent-type: text/plain
(???) essage-ID: <691708.12333.qm@web35702.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Thu, 31 Jul 2008 17:10:07 -0500
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
(???) -archive-position: 2296
(???) -ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: jumpjetinfo@yahoo.com
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Thu, 31 Jul 2008 17:10:17 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: The WELL's Gopher server is closed
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 3
(???) hy not contact the maintainer of this webpage and ask them to list the new Mirror link?
(???) -- On Thu, 7/31/08, Jeroen Schot <schot@A-Eskwadraat.nl> wrote:
(???) rom: Jeroen Schot <schot@A-Eskwadraat.nl>
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: The WELL's Gopher server is closed
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) ate: Thursday, July 31, 2008, 5:22 PM
(???) n Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 08:26:16PM +0200, Mate Nagy wrote:
(???) > How much is 'a lot'? If it's not to excessive I'll
(HTM) ave no problem
(???) > mirroring it.
(???) seems to me it's 44M (without extra index.html files)
(???) mirror can now be found at gopher://schot.a-eskwadraat.nl/1/archive/well
(???) ocation might change in the next few days.
(TN3) he official announcement of the 'death of WELLgopher':
(HTM) ttp://www.well.com/conf/pre.vue/topics/148/The-death-of-WELLgopher-sort-of-page01.html
(???) egards,
(???) -
(???) eroen Schot
(???)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Fri Aug 01 00:12:41 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,DKIM_SIGNED,SPF_HELO_PASS,
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 00:12:41 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Thu, 31 Jul 2008 17:10:07 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from web35702.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([66.163.179.156])
(???) eceived: (qmail 12756 invoked by uid 60001); 31 Jul 2008 22:09:56 -0000
(???) omainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
(???) s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
(???) h=Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Message-ID;
(???) b=5FMfCBvXLlQfZ6aWCkRSE/LafuW+O197bwp4xlJALDjqlK7Hequ4qSfU8vmkYz/xPj/j8SfohLcnLYT8c2Sh+GaA3H3rbsGXyZNqQJuVesQsr+Vul2Y+nA/ez0SLhXizX5AFb5bSBNnAaMa4icy8iDEMjiJ2Lh2OhIfGSsSKo6U=;
(???) eceived: from [75.148.104.194] by web35702.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 15:09:56 PDT
(???) -Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.218
(???) ate: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 15:09:56 -0700 (PDT)
(???) rom: JumpJet Mailbox <jumpjetinfo@yahoo.com>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <20080731212238.GA17236@A-Eskwadraat.nl>
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(???) ontent-type: text/plain
(???) essage-ID: <691708.12333.qm@web35702.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Thu, 31 Jul 2008 17:10:07 -0500
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
(???) -archive-position: 2296
(???) -ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: jumpjetinfo@yahoo.com
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Thu, 31 Jul 2008 17:10:17 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: The WELL's Gopher server is closed
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 4
(???) hy not contact the maintainer of this webpage and ask them to list the new Mirror link?
(???) -- On Thu, 7/31/08, Jeroen Schot <schot@A-Eskwadraat.nl> wrote:
(???) rom: Jeroen Schot <schot@A-Eskwadraat.nl>
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: The WELL's Gopher server is closed
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) ate: Thursday, July 31, 2008, 5:22 PM
(???) n Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 08:26:16PM +0200, Mate Nagy wrote:
(???) > How much is 'a lot'? If it's not to excessive I'll
(HTM) ave no problem
(???) > mirroring it.
(???) seems to me it's 44M (without extra index.html files)
(???) mirror can now be found at gopher://schot.a-eskwadraat.nl/1/archive/well
(???) ocation might change in the next few days.
(TN3) he official announcement of the 'death of WELLgopher':
(HTM) ttp://www.well.com/conf/pre.vue/topics/148/The-death-of-WELLgopher-sort-of-page01.html
(???) egards,
(???) -
(???) eroen Schot
(???)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Fri Aug 01 00:19:43 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,DKIM_SIGNED,SPF_HELO_PASS,
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
(???) elivery-date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 00:19:43 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Thu, 31 Jul 2008 17:16:27 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from web35706.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([66.163.179.160])
(???) eceived: (qmail 7683 invoked by uid 60001); 31 Jul 2008 22:16:17 -0000
(???) omainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
(???) s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
(???) h=Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Message-ID;
(???) b=ey1ben1C86bM5sJKtVpp//jA26ZVbP/hdiqEDnXFOXXXPxbJ96MYQMF6iDR3zxPgLFL7l8bBjRD703v/IKKnElEDFMPUA70cRJ/dznmtDyogNhhzk54DLSIa7LsuANE/k3AnzcL2i9LxoaOe/fXM+2stGyDpav6vLMfgiBeMhsE=;
(???) eceived: from [75.148.104.194] by web35706.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 15:16:17 PDT
(???) -Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.218
(???) ate: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 15:16:17 -0700 (PDT)
(???) rom: JumpJet Mailbox <jumpjetinfo@yahoo.com>
(TN3) o: Gopher Mailinglist <gopher@complete.org>
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(???) ontent-type: text/plain
(???) essage-ID: <699761.6926.qm@web35706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Thu, 31 Jul 2008 17:16:27 -0500
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
(???) -archive-position: 2297
(???) -ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: jumpjetinfo@yahoo.com
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Thu, 31 Jul 2008 17:16:38 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] WebTV and Gopher
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 5
(???) ebTV (now MSNTV) still supports Gopher.
(???)
(???) e should contact some of the maintainers of the various WebTV web pages, and have them comment about, or put a link to, Gopher! This would be a proactive method to again bring Gopher into some (albeit a small, but dedicated segment) of the public eye.
(???)
(???)
(???)
(???)
(???)
(???)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Fri Aug 01 00:20:04 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,DKIM_SIGNED,SPF_HELO_PASS,
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 00:20:04 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Thu, 31 Jul 2008 17:16:27 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from web35706.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([66.163.179.160])
(???) eceived: (qmail 7683 invoked by uid 60001); 31 Jul 2008 22:16:17 -0000
(???) omainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
(???) s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
(???) h=Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Message-ID;
(???) b=ey1ben1C86bM5sJKtVpp//jA26ZVbP/hdiqEDnXFOXXXPxbJ96MYQMF6iDR3zxPgLFL7l8bBjRD703v/IKKnElEDFMPUA70cRJ/dznmtDyogNhhzk54DLSIa7LsuANE/k3AnzcL2i9LxoaOe/fXM+2stGyDpav6vLMfgiBeMhsE=;
(???) eceived: from [75.148.104.194] by web35706.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 15:16:17 PDT
(???) -Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.218
(???) ate: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 15:16:17 -0700 (PDT)
(???) rom: JumpJet Mailbox <jumpjetinfo@yahoo.com>
(TN3) o: Gopher Mailinglist <gopher@complete.org>
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(???) ontent-type: text/plain
(???) essage-ID: <699761.6926.qm@web35706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Thu, 31 Jul 2008 17:16:27 -0500
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
(???) -archive-position: 2297
(???) -ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: jumpjetinfo@yahoo.com
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Thu, 31 Jul 2008 17:16:38 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] WebTV and Gopher
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 6
(???) ebTV (now MSNTV) still supports Gopher.
(???)
(???) e should contact some of the maintainers of the various WebTV web pages, and have them comment about, or put a link to, Gopher! This would be a proactive method to again bring Gopher into some (albeit a small, but dedicated segment) of the public eye.
(???)
(???)
(???)
(???)
(???)
(???)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Fri Aug 01 01:12:49 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=0.7 required=5.0 tests=AWL,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
(???) elivery-date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 01:12:50 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Thu, 31 Jul 2008 18:05:51 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from www.hal3000.cx
(???) eceived: from work2.hal3000.cx (work2.hal3000.cx [10.0.0.20])
(???) ate: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 17:48:51 -0500
(???) rom: chris <chris@hal3000.cx>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) essage-ID: <20080731174851.22dad3b8@work2.hal3000.cx>
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <988905.32400.qm@web35701.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
(???) eferences: <988905.32400.qm@web35701.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
(???) -Mailer: Sylpheed-Claws 2.5.2 (GTK+ 2.10.6; i386-portbld-freebsd6.2)
(???) ime-Version: 1.0
(???) ontent-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Thu, 31 Jul 2008 18:05:51 -0500
(???) -archive-position: 2298
(???) -ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: chris@hal3000.cx
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Thu, 31 Jul 2008 18:06:01 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: FYI: Gopher Service Stats Summary
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 7
(???) eah and I been to their site .. a couple times ;)
(???) n Thu, 31 Jul 2008 15:07:43 -0700 (PDT)
(???) umpJet Mailbox <jumpjetinfo@yahoo.com> wrote:
(???) Has anyone seen this?
(???) Accidently ran across this Gopher Service Stats Summary log posted_to
(???) the web. http://www.dna.affrc.go.jp/statistics/gopher.cnt.html
(???) _
(???) _
(???)
(???)
(???)
(???)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Fri Aug 01 01:13:01 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=0.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 01:13:01 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Thu, 31 Jul 2008 18:05:51 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from www.hal3000.cx
(???) eceived: from work2.hal3000.cx (work2.hal3000.cx [10.0.0.20])
(???) ate: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 17:48:51 -0500
(???) rom: chris <chris@hal3000.cx>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) essage-ID: <20080731174851.22dad3b8@work2.hal3000.cx>
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <988905.32400.qm@web35701.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
(???) eferences: <988905.32400.qm@web35701.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
(???) -Mailer: Sylpheed-Claws 2.5.2 (GTK+ 2.10.6; i386-portbld-freebsd6.2)
(???) ime-Version: 1.0
(???) ontent-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Thu, 31 Jul 2008 18:05:51 -0500
(???) -archive-position: 2298
(???) -ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: chris@hal3000.cx
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Thu, 31 Jul 2008 18:06:01 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: FYI: Gopher Service Stats Summary
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 8
(???) eah and I been to their site .. a couple times ;)
(???) n Thu, 31 Jul 2008 15:07:43 -0700 (PDT)
(???) umpJet Mailbox <jumpjetinfo@yahoo.com> wrote:
(???) Has anyone seen this?
(???) Accidently ran across this Gopher Service Stats Summary log posted_to
(???) the web. http://www.dna.affrc.go.jp/statistics/gopher.cnt.html
(???) _
(???) _
(???)
(???)
(???)
(???)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Fri Aug 01 01:17:13 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
(???) elivery-date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 01:17:13 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Thu, 31 Jul 2008 18:13:30 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from floodgap.com ([66.159.214.137] ident=elvis)
(???) eceived: (from spectre@localhost)
(???) rom: Cameron Kaiser <spectre@floodgap.com>
(???) essage-Id: <200807312313.m6VNDNeT012724@floodgap.com>
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <988905.32400.qm@web35701.mail.mud.yahoo.com> from JumpJet Mailbox at "Jul 31, 8 03:07:43 pm"
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) ate: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 16:13:23 -0700 (PDT)
(???) -Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)]
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(???) ontent-type: text/plain; charset=UNKNOWN-8BIT
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Thu, 31 Jul 2008 18:13:30 -0500
(???) -archive-position: 2299
(???) -ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: spectre@floodgap.com
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Thu, 31 Jul 2008 18:13:40 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: FYI: Gopher Service Stats Summary
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 9
(???) Has anyone seen this?
(???) Accidently ran across this Gopher Service Stats Summary log posted=A0to t=
(HTM) e web.
(???) http://www.dna.affrc.go.jp/statistics/gopher.cnt.html
(???) ncouraging to see a very 'specialized' server like this one getting so
(???) uch traffic.
(???) -=20
(???) ----------------------------------- personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com=
(???) --
(???) Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser@floodgap.c=
(???) m
(???) - Never explain, never apologise. -- John Arbuthnot "Jackie" Fisher ------=
(???) ---
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Fri Aug 01 01:17:22 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 01:17:22 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Thu, 31 Jul 2008 18:13:30 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from floodgap.com ([66.159.214.137] ident=elvis)
(???) eceived: (from spectre@localhost)
(???) rom: Cameron Kaiser <spectre@floodgap.com>
(???) essage-Id: <200807312313.m6VNDNeT012724@floodgap.com>
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <988905.32400.qm@web35701.mail.mud.yahoo.com> from JumpJet Mailbox at "Jul 31, 8 03:07:43 pm"
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) ate: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 16:13:23 -0700 (PDT)
(???) -Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)]
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(???) ontent-type: text/plain; charset=UNKNOWN-8BIT
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Thu, 31 Jul 2008 18:13:30 -0500
(???) -archive-position: 2299
(???) -ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: spectre@floodgap.com
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Thu, 31 Jul 2008 18:13:40 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: FYI: Gopher Service Stats Summary
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 10
(???) Has anyone seen this?
(???) Accidently ran across this Gopher Service Stats Summary log posted=A0to t=
(HTM) e web.
(???) http://www.dna.affrc.go.jp/statistics/gopher.cnt.html
(???) ncouraging to see a very 'specialized' server like this one getting so
(???) uch traffic.
(???) -=20
(???) ----------------------------------- personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com=
(???) --
(???) Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser@floodgap.c=
(???) m
(???) - Never explain, never apologise. -- John Arbuthnot "Jackie" Fisher ------=
(???) ---
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Sun Aug 03 02:32:04 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
(???) elivery-date: Sun, 03 Aug 2008 02:32:04 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Sat, 02 Aug 2008 19:25:01 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from satoko.is.fushizen.net ([207.192.69.114])
(???) eceived: from pool-71-98-23-75.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net ([71.98.23.75] helo=[192.168.2.101])
(???) essage-ID: <4894FADB.3000309@sinedev.org>
(???) ate: Sat, 02 Aug 2008 19:24:59 -0500
(???) rom: Kyevan <kyevan@sinedev.org>
(???) ser-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.16 (Windows/20080708)
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) eferences: <20080727212804.GA23008@port70.net>
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <20080727212804.GA23008@port70.net>
(???) ontent-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sat, 02 Aug 2008 19:25:01 -0500
(???) -archive-position: 2300
(???) -ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: kyevan@sinedev.org
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sat, 02 Aug 2008 19:25:12 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: gopherchan!
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 11
(TN3) his is rather neat... but you should note there's already a 1chan.
(HTM) ttp://www.1chan.net/
(???) .. Actually, I think there are a couple other 1chans, too. Gopherchan
(???) ould probably be a better name, really.
(???) ate Nagy wrote:
(???) Hello,
(???) pls note that this is not entirely serious :) (more like an experiment
(???) with the Kaya programming language: www.kayalang.org)
(???) ..but: gopher://port70.net/1chan
(???)
(???) Regards,
(???) Mate
(???)
(???)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Sun Aug 03 02:32:30 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Sun, 03 Aug 2008 02:32:30 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Sat, 02 Aug 2008 19:25:01 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from satoko.is.fushizen.net ([207.192.69.114])
(???) eceived: from pool-71-98-23-75.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net ([71.98.23.75] helo=[192.168.2.101])
(???) essage-ID: <4894FADB.3000309@sinedev.org>
(???) ate: Sat, 02 Aug 2008 19:24:59 -0500
(???) rom: Kyevan <kyevan@sinedev.org>
(???) ser-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.16 (Windows/20080708)
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) eferences: <20080727212804.GA23008@port70.net>
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <20080727212804.GA23008@port70.net>
(???) ontent-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sat, 02 Aug 2008 19:25:01 -0500
(???) -archive-position: 2300
(???) -ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: kyevan@sinedev.org
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sat, 02 Aug 2008 19:25:12 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: gopherchan!
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 12
(TN3) his is rather neat... but you should note there's already a 1chan.
(HTM) ttp://www.1chan.net/
(???) .. Actually, I think there are a couple other 1chans, too. Gopherchan
(???) ould probably be a better name, really.
(???) ate Nagy wrote:
(???) Hello,
(???) pls note that this is not entirely serious :) (more like an experiment
(???) with the Kaya programming language: www.kayalang.org)
(???) ..but: gopher://port70.net/1chan
(???)
(???) Regards,
(???) Mate
(???)
(???)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Sun Aug 03 03:26:56 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
(???) elivery-date: Sun, 03 Aug 2008 03:26:56 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Sat, 02 Aug 2008 20:20:22 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from satoko.is.fushizen.net ([207.192.69.114])
(???) eceived: from pool-71-98-23-75.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net ([71.98.23.75] helo=[192.168.2.101])
(???) essage-ID: <4895075D.9060202@sinedev.org>
(???) ate: Sat, 02 Aug 2008 20:18:21 -0500
(???) rom: Kyevan <kyevan@sinedev.org>
(???) ser-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.16 (Windows/20080708)
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) eferences: <4884d320.1b018e0a.7b70.ffffc3b8@mx.google.com>
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <e78c27470807221042x274bba70i933a01875709e959@mail.gmail.com>
(???) ontent-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sat, 02 Aug 2008 20:20:22 -0500
(???) -archive-position: 2301
(???) -ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: kyevan@sinedev.org
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sat, 02 Aug 2008 20:22:32 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Item Type Suggestions
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 13
(???) hat about the whole world of text-based formats? (text/*)?
(IMG) think it might make most sense to put text/* under 1, application/*
(???) nder 9, image/* under I, and audio/* under s.
(???) s a practical matter, for the moment, it might be easiest to just
(PNG) rohibit message/* and multipart/*, since the only use I can see
(GIF) opher-wise would be multipart/appledouble, and there it makes more
(SND) ense to use binhex and item type 4. example/* and */example are
(???) ntirely invalid (outside documentation), of course!
(???) ideo/* and model/* could be either shoved under 9, or we could define
tem types for them. Having item types that parallel the base Internet
(???) edia types seems like it would make sense and would ease conversion...
(???) ut would possibly break compatibility with older clients. Actually, I
(???) nd s have that problem too, though they're wide-spread enough to be
(???) entioned on Wikipedia (which, admittedly, could just be one editor
(???) sing them...)
(???) dd fallback types to the hypothetical pie-in-the-sky Gopher Perfect
(???) hat will be specified around the same time as all that vaporware we've
(???) een 'promised' over the years comes out, I guess. :P
(???) dditionaly, might we want to use something like
(???) pplication/[X-]gopher-menu as a type for 0? I mean, it seems like it
(???) ould be nice to have SOMETHING to put in a MIME type-related field for
(???) enus, if for no other reason than to look nicer to humans reading the
(???) enu... and besides, then you could do stupid things like return gopher
(???) enus over http :P
(???) - Kyevan
(???) ay Nemrow wrote:
(???) Also, if we are to deal with mime types at all, I am thinking that all
(???) of them must be put under the 9 item type, no matter what, just to
(???) keep old clients from breaking. If you put a .doc file under the 0
(???) menu type, the old client wants to dump that to screen as text and you
(???) will see gibberish and probably crash things. Everything that doesn't
(???) fit into the established types will have to be 9 item types, as far as
(???) I can see.
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Sun Aug 03 03:27:12 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Sun, 03 Aug 2008 03:27:13 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Sat, 02 Aug 2008 20:20:22 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from satoko.is.fushizen.net ([207.192.69.114])
(???) eceived: from pool-71-98-23-75.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net ([71.98.23.75] helo=[192.168.2.101])
(???) essage-ID: <4895075D.9060202@sinedev.org>
(???) ate: Sat, 02 Aug 2008 20:18:21 -0500
(???) rom: Kyevan <kyevan@sinedev.org>
(???) ser-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.16 (Windows/20080708)
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) eferences: <4884d320.1b018e0a.7b70.ffffc3b8@mx.google.com>
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <e78c27470807221042x274bba70i933a01875709e959@mail.gmail.com>
(???) ontent-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sat, 02 Aug 2008 20:20:22 -0500
(???) -archive-position: 2301
(???) -ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: kyevan@sinedev.org
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sat, 02 Aug 2008 20:22:32 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Item Type Suggestions
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 14
(???) hat about the whole world of text-based formats? (text/*)?
(IMG) think it might make most sense to put text/* under 1, application/*
(???) nder 9, image/* under I, and audio/* under s.
(???) s a practical matter, for the moment, it might be easiest to just
(PNG) rohibit message/* and multipart/*, since the only use I can see
(GIF) opher-wise would be multipart/appledouble, and there it makes more
(SND) ense to use binhex and item type 4. example/* and */example are
(???) ntirely invalid (outside documentation), of course!
(???) ideo/* and model/* could be either shoved under 9, or we could define
tem types for them. Having item types that parallel the base Internet
(???) edia types seems like it would make sense and would ease conversion...
(???) ut would possibly break compatibility with older clients. Actually, I
(???) nd s have that problem too, though they're wide-spread enough to be
(???) entioned on Wikipedia (which, admittedly, could just be one editor
(???) sing them...)
(???) dd fallback types to the hypothetical pie-in-the-sky Gopher Perfect
(???) hat will be specified around the same time as all that vaporware we've
(???) een 'promised' over the years comes out, I guess. :P
(???) dditionaly, might we want to use something like
(???) pplication/[X-]gopher-menu as a type for 0? I mean, it seems like it
(???) ould be nice to have SOMETHING to put in a MIME type-related field for
(???) enus, if for no other reason than to look nicer to humans reading the
(???) enu... and besides, then you could do stupid things like return gopher
(???) enus over http :P
(???) - Kyevan
(???) ay Nemrow wrote:
(???) Also, if we are to deal with mime types at all, I am thinking that all
(???) of them must be put under the 9 item type, no matter what, just to
(???) keep old clients from breaking. If you put a .doc file under the 0
(???) menu type, the old client wants to dump that to screen as text and you
(???) will see gibberish and probably crash things. Everything that doesn't
(???) fit into the established types will have to be 9 item types, as far as
(???) I can see.
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Sun Aug 03 04:09:14 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
(???) elivery-date: Sun, 03 Aug 2008 04:09:14 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Sat, 02 Aug 2008 21:04:52 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from satoko.is.fushizen.net ([207.192.69.114])
(???) eceived: from pool-71-98-23-75.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net ([71.98.23.75] helo=[192.168.2.101])
(???) essage-ID: <4895123E.8010608@sinedev.org>
(???) ate: Sat, 02 Aug 2008 21:04:46 -0500
(???) rom: Kyevan <kyevan@sinedev.org>
(???) ser-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.16 (Windows/20080708)
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) eferences: <20080729204952.GC11982@pongonova.net>
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <20080729204952.GC11982@pongonova.net>
(???) ontent-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sat, 02 Aug 2008 21:04:51 -0500
(???) -archive-position: 2302
(???) -ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: kyevan@sinedev.org
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sat, 02 Aug 2008 21:05:03 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Establishment of .gopher TLD
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 15
(???) Sites hosted on a .gopher domain should not serve content via any other
(PNG) rotocol."
(???) hat's your reasoning for that? I mean, Gopher should be primary, but I
(DOC) on't see an issue with, say, turning on the http access in pygopherd or
(???) sing some other proxy, or running sshd for remote administration, or such.
(???) rian@pongonova.net wrote:
(???) OpenNIC is an alternative, open, democratic DNS that mirrors the ICANN
(???) namespace as well as provides namespaces for alternative TLDs.
(???) xcept ICANN's .biz, last I looked. This may have changed now that
(???) acRoot is dead, though.
(???) atthew Holevinski wrote:
(???) > Honestly I think that's a fabulous idea.
(???) > There's no reason gopher has to be restricted
(???) > to Gopher://.
(???) xcept that whatever:// is actually for the client only, so it knows if
t needs to send a gopher selectorm http's multitude of headers,
(???) egotiate an ssh connection, or fire up Unreal Tournament for a
(DOC) eathmatch ;)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Sun Aug 03 04:09:34 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Sun, 03 Aug 2008 04:09:34 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Sat, 02 Aug 2008 21:04:52 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from satoko.is.fushizen.net ([207.192.69.114])
(???) eceived: from pool-71-98-23-75.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net ([71.98.23.75] helo=[192.168.2.101])
(???) essage-ID: <4895123E.8010608@sinedev.org>
(???) ate: Sat, 02 Aug 2008 21:04:46 -0500
(???) rom: Kyevan <kyevan@sinedev.org>
(???) ser-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.16 (Windows/20080708)
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) eferences: <20080729204952.GC11982@pongonova.net>
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <20080729204952.GC11982@pongonova.net>
(???) ontent-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sat, 02 Aug 2008 21:04:51 -0500
(???) -archive-position: 2302
(???) -ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: kyevan@sinedev.org
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sat, 02 Aug 2008 21:05:03 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Establishment of .gopher TLD
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 16
(???) Sites hosted on a .gopher domain should not serve content via any other
(PNG) rotocol."
(???) hat's your reasoning for that? I mean, Gopher should be primary, but I
(DOC) on't see an issue with, say, turning on the http access in pygopherd or
(???) sing some other proxy, or running sshd for remote administration, or such.
(???) rian@pongonova.net wrote:
(???) OpenNIC is an alternative, open, democratic DNS that mirrors the ICANN
(???) namespace as well as provides namespaces for alternative TLDs.
(???) xcept ICANN's .biz, last I looked. This may have changed now that
(???) acRoot is dead, though.
(???) atthew Holevinski wrote:
(???) > Honestly I think that's a fabulous idea.
(???) > There's no reason gopher has to be restricted
(???) > to Gopher://.
(???) xcept that whatever:// is actually for the client only, so it knows if
t needs to send a gopher selectorm http's multitude of headers,
(???) egotiate an ssh connection, or fire up Unreal Tournament for a
(DOC) eathmatch ;)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Sun Aug 03 04:51:31 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Sun, 03 Aug 2008 04:51:31 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Sat, 02 Aug 2008 21:44:54 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from static-71-170-11-156.dllstx.dsl-w.verizon.net ([71.170.11.156] helo=turquoise.pongonova.net)
(???) eceived: by turquoise.pongonova.net (Postfix, from userid 1000)
(???) ate: Sat, 2 Aug 2008 20:46:23 -0500
(???) rom: brian@pongonova.net
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) essage-ID: <20080803014623.GJ964@pongonova.net>
(???) eferences: <20080729204952.GC11982@pongonova.net> <4895123E.8010608@sinedev.org>
(???) ime-Version: 1.0
(???) ontent-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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(IMG) n-Reply-To: <4895123E.8010608@sinedev.org>
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(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sat, 02 Aug 2008 21:44:54 -0500
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(???) -archive-position: 2303
(???) -ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: brian@pongonova.net
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sat, 02 Aug 2008 21:45:04 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Establishment of .gopher TLD
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 17
(???) n Sat, Aug 02, 2008 at 09:04:46PM -0500, Kyevan wrote:
(???) What's your reasoning for that? I mean, Gopher should be primary, but I
(???) don't see an issue with, say, turning on the http access in pygopherd or
(???) using some other proxy, or running sshd for remote administration, or such.
(???) yevan, permit me to post the same response to another individual who
(???) aised the same question:
(???) Good point...although while I've heard of "gopherspace," I've not heard of "httpspace," "ftpspace,", "telnetspace," etc.
(???) There's nothing stopping the introduction of protocol-based TLDs...but I think motivation is important: My desire to introduce .gopher is to help reinvigorate the movement to bring gopher back to the masses. The http protocol doesn't need such a boost, neither does ftp, telnet, smtp, etc.
(???) Except ICANN's .biz, last I looked. This may have changed now that
(???) PacRoot is dead, though.
(???) penNIC had .biz before ICANN laid claim to it. So we consider it a collider
(???) Except that whatever:// is actually for the client only, so it knows if
(???) it needs to send a gopher selectorm http's multitude of headers,
(???) negotiate an ssh connection, or fire up Unreal Tournament for a
(???) deathmatch ;)
(???) ut clients could take advantage of a .gopher TLD if they were
(???) onfigured to do so, so the point is valid, just not in the context of
(???) ost (all?) current browsers.
(???) --Brian
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Sun Aug 03 04:51:12 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
(???) elivery-date: Sun, 03 Aug 2008 04:51:12 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Sat, 02 Aug 2008 21:44:54 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from static-71-170-11-156.dllstx.dsl-w.verizon.net ([71.170.11.156] helo=turquoise.pongonova.net)
(???) eceived: by turquoise.pongonova.net (Postfix, from userid 1000)
(???) ate: Sat, 2 Aug 2008 20:46:23 -0500
(???) rom: brian@pongonova.net
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) essage-ID: <20080803014623.GJ964@pongonova.net>
(???) eferences: <20080729204952.GC11982@pongonova.net> <4895123E.8010608@sinedev.org>
(???) ime-Version: 1.0
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(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
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(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: brian@pongonova.net
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sat, 02 Aug 2008 21:45:04 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Establishment of .gopher TLD
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 18
(???) n Sat, Aug 02, 2008 at 09:04:46PM -0500, Kyevan wrote:
(???) What's your reasoning for that? I mean, Gopher should be primary, but I
(???) don't see an issue with, say, turning on the http access in pygopherd or
(???) using some other proxy, or running sshd for remote administration, or such.
(???) yevan, permit me to post the same response to another individual who
(???) aised the same question:
(???) Good point...although while I've heard of "gopherspace," I've not heard of "httpspace," "ftpspace,", "telnetspace," etc.
(???) There's nothing stopping the introduction of protocol-based TLDs...but I think motivation is important: My desire to introduce .gopher is to help reinvigorate the movement to bring gopher back to the masses. The http protocol doesn't need such a boost, neither does ftp, telnet, smtp, etc.
(???) Except ICANN's .biz, last I looked. This may have changed now that
(???) PacRoot is dead, though.
(???) penNIC had .biz before ICANN laid claim to it. So we consider it a collider
(???) Except that whatever:// is actually for the client only, so it knows if
(???) it needs to send a gopher selectorm http's multitude of headers,
(???) negotiate an ssh connection, or fire up Unreal Tournament for a
(???) deathmatch ;)
(???) ut clients could take advantage of a .gopher TLD if they were
(???) onfigured to do so, so the point is valid, just not in the context of
(???) ost (all?) current browsers.
(???) --Brian
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Sun Aug 03 18:08:34 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Sun, 03 Aug 2008 18:08:34 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Sun, 03 Aug 2008 11:01:41 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from smtp2.ist.utl.pt ([193.136.128.22])
(???) eceived: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1])
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-2.5.3 (20071212) (Debian) at ist.utl.pt
(???) eceived: from smtp2.ist.utl.pt ([127.0.0.1])
(???) eceived: from mail.ist.utl.pt (mail.ist.utl.pt [193.136.128.8])
(???) eceived: from deschutes.localdomain (bl9-230-134.dsl.telepac.pt [85.242.230.134])
(???) eceived: from deschutes.local.lan (localhost [127.0.0.1])
(???) ate: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 17:01:20 +0100
(???) rom: "Nuno J. Silva" <nunojsilva@ist.utl.pt>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) essage-ID: <20080803170120.1e013417@deschutes.local.lan>
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <4883B914.3080202@sinedev.org>
(???) eferences: <4881C93A.4000208@quix.us>
(???) -Mailer: Claws Mail 3.4.0 (GTK+ 2.12.9; i686-pc-linux-gnu)
(???) ime-Version: 1.0
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(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sun, 03 Aug 2008 11:01:41 -0500
(???) -archive-position: 2304
(???) -ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: nunojsilva@ist.utl.pt
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sun, 03 Aug 2008 11:01:51 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Gopherness
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 19
(???) n Sun, 20 Jul 2008 17:15:48 -0500
(???) yevan <kyevan@sinedev.org> wrote:
(???) Interesting, but there are three things that I have reservations or=20
(???) questions about.
(???) =20
(???) > - Putting "up" or "previous menu" items in menus which points into
(???) > your personal "data island".
(???) =20
(???) Often times, pointing back up a tree makes sense, even if that's not
(???) the tree the user followed to get here. I think the issue is probably
(???) more with the title than the idea of putting a link to a menu 'above'
(???) this one.
(IMG) would place such a feature in the gopher client itself, something
(???) ike 'goto parent menu' and 'goto server root'.
(???) snip/>=20
(???) > - Rendering Everything Else to a Handful of Established Types.
(???) =20
(???) The problem here is that you're assuming all, for example, images are=20
(???) equal. JPEG works pretty well for photographs or 3d renders of
(???) lifelike scenes, but often makes drawings, charts, graphs, and the
(???) like unusable. This is the easiest to see, but even text has this
(???) ou can always set the jpeg quality to 100% when creating the file
(???) I don't know how much tools allow you to do that - at least the GIMP
(???) nd ImageMagick do it), but it might be useful to allow another image
(???) ype, for the examples you described. Although gif is associated with
(???) g', i'd pick png, as the former is proprietary. (How is that issue? Is
(???) here still any 'active' patent on the mechanisms used to create gif
(PNG) ictures? I remember reading somewhere that png was better than gif,
(???) ut if those patent issues are over, we could just keep gif.)
(???) issue - ASCII is incredibly simple and to be preferred for most
(???) English-language documents ("dumb" quotes over typographical ones,
(???) for example) On the other hand, what if you want to upload a text in
(???) the original language when that language wasn't English? Even most of
(???) the closely related languages have accents or the like, and then you
(???) go out to things like Japanese... you can see how this is a problem.
(TN3) here's utf8. But, when dealing with english texts, keeping them to
(???) SCII is, IMO, the best choice (unless it's some sort of scientific
(???) ext where using the greek letters themselves instead of using their
(???) ames is more readable (and it is not possible to use ASCII characters
nstead)).
(???) -=20
(???) uno J. Silva (aka njsg)
(???) EIC student at Instituto Superior T=C3=A9cnico
(???) isbon, Portugal
(???) omepage: http://njsg.no.sapo.pt/
(???) opherspace: gopher://sdf-eu.org/11/users/njsg
(???) egistered Linux User #402207 - http://counter.li.org
(???) =3D-=3D-
(???) `Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes.''
(???) -- Oscar Wilde
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Sun Aug 03 18:08:20 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
(???) elivery-date: Sun, 03 Aug 2008 18:08:20 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Sun, 03 Aug 2008 11:01:41 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from smtp2.ist.utl.pt ([193.136.128.22])
(???) eceived: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1])
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-2.5.3 (20071212) (Debian) at ist.utl.pt
(???) eceived: from smtp2.ist.utl.pt ([127.0.0.1])
(???) eceived: from mail.ist.utl.pt (mail.ist.utl.pt [193.136.128.8])
(???) eceived: from deschutes.localdomain (bl9-230-134.dsl.telepac.pt [85.242.230.134])
(???) eceived: from deschutes.local.lan (localhost [127.0.0.1])
(???) ate: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 17:01:20 +0100
(???) rom: "Nuno J. Silva" <nunojsilva@ist.utl.pt>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) essage-ID: <20080803170120.1e013417@deschutes.local.lan>
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <4883B914.3080202@sinedev.org>
(???) eferences: <4881C93A.4000208@quix.us>
(???) -Mailer: Claws Mail 3.4.0 (GTK+ 2.12.9; i686-pc-linux-gnu)
(???) ime-Version: 1.0
(???) ontent-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sun, 03 Aug 2008 11:01:41 -0500
(???) -archive-position: 2304
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(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: nunojsilva@ist.utl.pt
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sun, 03 Aug 2008 11:01:51 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Gopherness
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 20
(???) n Sun, 20 Jul 2008 17:15:48 -0500
(???) yevan <kyevan@sinedev.org> wrote:
(???) Interesting, but there are three things that I have reservations or=20
(???) questions about.
(???) =20
(???) > - Putting "up" or "previous menu" items in menus which points into
(???) > your personal "data island".
(???) =20
(???) Often times, pointing back up a tree makes sense, even if that's not
(???) the tree the user followed to get here. I think the issue is probably
(???) more with the title than the idea of putting a link to a menu 'above'
(???) this one.
(IMG) would place such a feature in the gopher client itself, something
(???) ike 'goto parent menu' and 'goto server root'.
(???) snip/>=20
(???) > - Rendering Everything Else to a Handful of Established Types.
(???) =20
(???) The problem here is that you're assuming all, for example, images are=20
(???) equal. JPEG works pretty well for photographs or 3d renders of
(???) lifelike scenes, but often makes drawings, charts, graphs, and the
(???) like unusable. This is the easiest to see, but even text has this
(???) ou can always set the jpeg quality to 100% when creating the file
(???) I don't know how much tools allow you to do that - at least the GIMP
(???) nd ImageMagick do it), but it might be useful to allow another image
(???) ype, for the examples you described. Although gif is associated with
(???) g', i'd pick png, as the former is proprietary. (How is that issue? Is
(???) here still any 'active' patent on the mechanisms used to create gif
(PNG) ictures? I remember reading somewhere that png was better than gif,
(???) ut if those patent issues are over, we could just keep gif.)
(???) issue - ASCII is incredibly simple and to be preferred for most
(???) English-language documents ("dumb" quotes over typographical ones,
(???) for example) On the other hand, what if you want to upload a text in
(???) the original language when that language wasn't English? Even most of
(???) the closely related languages have accents or the like, and then you
(???) go out to things like Japanese... you can see how this is a problem.
(TN3) here's utf8. But, when dealing with english texts, keeping them to
(???) SCII is, IMO, the best choice (unless it's some sort of scientific
(???) ext where using the greek letters themselves instead of using their
(???) ames is more readable (and it is not possible to use ASCII characters
nstead)).
(???) -=20
(???) uno J. Silva (aka njsg)
(???) EIC student at Instituto Superior T=C3=A9cnico
(???) isbon, Portugal
(???) omepage: http://njsg.no.sapo.pt/
(???) opherspace: gopher://sdf-eu.org/11/users/njsg
(???) egistered Linux User #402207 - http://counter.li.org
(???) =3D-=3D-
(???) `Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes.''
(???) -- Oscar Wilde
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Sun Aug 03 18:36:37 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,SPF_HELO_PASS,
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Sun, 03 Aug 2008 18:36:37 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Sun, 03 Aug 2008 11:33:54 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from an-out-0708.google.com ([209.85.132.251])
(???) eceived: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id b36so456199ana.21
(???) for <gopher@complete.org>; Sun, 03 Aug 2008 09:33:50 -0700 (PDT)
(???) KIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
(???) d=gmail.com; s=gamma;
(???) h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to
(???) :subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type
(???) :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references;
(???) bh=DH8zL2JEPSYdhZasWUoSoWPNRKzLKT6Yhat3vNG30F0=;
(???) b=Da78b8xngnFBePumvFV4GPjJgH2PfEmWkgOL+H7mE4MTCbytWWFd6ChrqPojSyl7/5
(???) rql9N/Jh1OxyhXGHCqUxbACdywkDVuZZ7X0py1ggn2wRn7do5VPDLBrJ1J1ZNE6dKxzV
(???) MCPjKlGbBUKegxHT6MiKP1uJo03rZh74d/+5g=
(???) omainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws;
(???) d=gmail.com; s=gamma;
(???) h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version
(???) :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition
(???) :references;
(???) b=KaGXUZRqx7GPotqJDWxB+wmYqs3QaekNzXBBd/xbqQzF/fB3jvYzio5sMdi2FT9UML
(???) y4gQEz1nJeDxtpL2FjELVryN8XEQiv/hMo98sZPHY5xdjZVPLsk1wIKOb9QDsMENrfk8
(???) bDWAnnOQzrPKX5358Dl5wyQXP0AUQPwm1Xk1g=
(???) eceived: by 10.100.140.10 with SMTP id n10mr18714257and.129.1217781229977;
(???) Sun, 03 Aug 2008 09:33:49 -0700 (PDT)
(???) eceived: by 10.100.249.15 with HTTP; Sun, 3 Aug 2008 09:33:49 -0700 (PDT)
(???) essage-ID: <3c8abce30808030933r3711427fs6bb3d24c8e877102@mail.gmail.com>
(???) ate: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 11:33:49 -0500
(???) rom: "Matthew Holevinski" <eylusion@gmail.com>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <20080803014623.GJ964@pongonova.net>
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(???) ontent-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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(???) eferences: <20080729204952.GC11982@pongonova.net>
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sun, 03 Aug 2008 11:33:54 -0500
(???) -archive-position: 2305
(???) -ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: eylusion@gmail.com
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sun, 03 Aug 2008 11:34:03 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Establishment of .gopher TLD
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 21
(???) ell we could always abbreviate it to just .gop :))
(???) ut then again, someone might take offense.
(???) att
(???) n Sat, Aug 2, 2008 at 8:46 PM, <brian@pongonova.net> wrote:
(???) On Sat, Aug 02, 2008 at 09:04:46PM -0500, Kyevan wrote:
(???) > What's your reasoning for that? I mean, Gopher should be primary, but I
(???) > don't see an issue with, say, turning on the http access in pygopherd or
(???) > using some other proxy, or running sshd for remote administration, or such.
(???)
(???) Kyevan, permit me to post the same response to another individual who
(???) raised the same question:
(???)
(???) Good point...although while I've heard of "gopherspace," I've not heard of "httpspace," "ftpspace,", "telnetspace," etc.
(???) There's nothing stopping the introduction of protocol-based TLDs...but I think motivation is important: My desire to introduce .gopher is to help reinvigorate the movement to bring gopher back to the masses. The http protocol doesn't need such a boost, neither does ftp, telnet, smtp, etc.
(???)
(???) > Except ICANN's .biz, last I looked. This may have changed now that
(???) > PacRoot is dead, though.
(???)
(???) OpenNIC had .biz before ICANN laid claim to it. So we consider it a collider
(???)
(???) > Except that whatever:// is actually for the client only, so it knows if
(???) > it needs to send a gopher selectorm http's multitude of headers,
(???) > negotiate an ssh connection, or fire up Unreal Tournament for a
(???) > deathmatch ;)
(???)
(???) But clients could take advantage of a .gopher TLD if they were
(???) configured to do so, so the point is valid, just not in the context of
(???) most (all?) current browsers.
(???)
(???) --Brian
(???)
(???)
(???)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Sun Aug 03 18:36:26 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
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(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
(???) elivery-date: Sun, 03 Aug 2008 18:36:26 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Sun, 03 Aug 2008 11:33:54 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from an-out-0708.google.com ([209.85.132.251])
(???) eceived: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id b36so456199ana.21
(???) for <gopher@complete.org>; Sun, 03 Aug 2008 09:33:50 -0700 (PDT)
(???) KIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
(???) d=gmail.com; s=gamma;
(???) h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to
(???) :subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type
(???) :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references;
(???) bh=DH8zL2JEPSYdhZasWUoSoWPNRKzLKT6Yhat3vNG30F0=;
(???) b=Da78b8xngnFBePumvFV4GPjJgH2PfEmWkgOL+H7mE4MTCbytWWFd6ChrqPojSyl7/5
(???) rql9N/Jh1OxyhXGHCqUxbACdywkDVuZZ7X0py1ggn2wRn7do5VPDLBrJ1J1ZNE6dKxzV
(???) MCPjKlGbBUKegxHT6MiKP1uJo03rZh74d/+5g=
(???) omainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws;
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(???) h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version
(???) :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition
(???) :references;
(???) b=KaGXUZRqx7GPotqJDWxB+wmYqs3QaekNzXBBd/xbqQzF/fB3jvYzio5sMdi2FT9UML
(???) y4gQEz1nJeDxtpL2FjELVryN8XEQiv/hMo98sZPHY5xdjZVPLsk1wIKOb9QDsMENrfk8
(???) bDWAnnOQzrPKX5358Dl5wyQXP0AUQPwm1Xk1g=
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(???) Sun, 03 Aug 2008 09:33:49 -0700 (PDT)
(???) eceived: by 10.100.249.15 with HTTP; Sun, 3 Aug 2008 09:33:49 -0700 (PDT)
(???) essage-ID: <3c8abce30808030933r3711427fs6bb3d24c8e877102@mail.gmail.com>
(???) ate: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 11:33:49 -0500
(???) rom: "Matthew Holevinski" <eylusion@gmail.com>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <20080803014623.GJ964@pongonova.net>
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(???) ontent-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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(???) eferences: <20080729204952.GC11982@pongonova.net>
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sun, 03 Aug 2008 11:33:54 -0500
(???) -archive-position: 2305
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(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: eylusion@gmail.com
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
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(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sun, 03 Aug 2008 11:34:03 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Establishment of .gopher TLD
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 22
(???) ell we could always abbreviate it to just .gop :))
(???) ut then again, someone might take offense.
(???) att
(???) n Sat, Aug 2, 2008 at 8:46 PM, <brian@pongonova.net> wrote:
(???) On Sat, Aug 02, 2008 at 09:04:46PM -0500, Kyevan wrote:
(???) > What's your reasoning for that? I mean, Gopher should be primary, but I
(???) > don't see an issue with, say, turning on the http access in pygopherd or
(???) > using some other proxy, or running sshd for remote administration, or such.
(???)
(???) Kyevan, permit me to post the same response to another individual who
(???) raised the same question:
(???)
(???) Good point...although while I've heard of "gopherspace," I've not heard of "httpspace," "ftpspace,", "telnetspace," etc.
(???) There's nothing stopping the introduction of protocol-based TLDs...but I think motivation is important: My desire to introduce .gopher is to help reinvigorate the movement to bring gopher back to the masses. The http protocol doesn't need such a boost, neither does ftp, telnet, smtp, etc.
(???)
(???) > Except ICANN's .biz, last I looked. This may have changed now that
(???) > PacRoot is dead, though.
(???)
(???) OpenNIC had .biz before ICANN laid claim to it. So we consider it a collider
(???)
(???) > Except that whatever:// is actually for the client only, so it knows if
(???) > it needs to send a gopher selectorm http's multitude of headers,
(???) > negotiate an ssh connection, or fire up Unreal Tournament for a
(???) > deathmatch ;)
(???)
(???) But clients could take advantage of a .gopher TLD if they were
(???) configured to do so, so the point is valid, just not in the context of
(???) most (all?) current browsers.
(???)
(???) --Brian
(???)
(???)
(???)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Sun Aug 03 18:37:28 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
(???) elivery-date: Sun, 03 Aug 2008 18:37:28 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Sun, 03 Aug 2008 11:35:55 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from floodgap.com ([66.159.214.137] ident=elvis)
(???) eceived: (from spectre@localhost)
(???) rom: Cameron Kaiser <spectre@floodgap.com>
(???) essage-Id: <200808031635.m73GZoik012998@floodgap.com>
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <3c8abce30808030933r3711427fs6bb3d24c8e877102@mail.gmail.com> from Matthew Holevinski at "Aug 3, 8 11:33:49 am"
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) ate: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 09:35:50 -0700 (PDT)
(???) -Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)]
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
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(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sun, 03 Aug 2008 11:35:55 -0500
(???) -archive-position: 2306
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(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: spectre@floodgap.com
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sun, 03 Aug 2008 11:36:04 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Establishment of .gopher TLD
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 23
(???) Well we could always abbreviate it to just .gop :))
(???) ol. No, I think you'd hear it about that one. ^_^
(???) -
(???) ----------------------------------- personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
(???) Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser@floodgap.com
(???) - CONJUGATION OF THE HULKING ENTOMOLOGIST: I big / I bag / I have bug --------
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Sun Aug 03 18:37:38 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
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(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Sun, 03 Aug 2008 18:37:38 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Sun, 03 Aug 2008 11:35:55 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from floodgap.com ([66.159.214.137] ident=elvis)
(???) eceived: (from spectre@localhost)
(???) rom: Cameron Kaiser <spectre@floodgap.com>
(???) essage-Id: <200808031635.m73GZoik012998@floodgap.com>
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <3c8abce30808030933r3711427fs6bb3d24c8e877102@mail.gmail.com> from Matthew Holevinski at "Aug 3, 8 11:33:49 am"
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) ate: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 09:35:50 -0700 (PDT)
(???) -Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)]
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(???) ontent-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sun, 03 Aug 2008 11:35:55 -0500
(???) -archive-position: 2306
(???) -ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: spectre@floodgap.com
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sun, 03 Aug 2008 11:36:04 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Establishment of .gopher TLD
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 24
(???) Well we could always abbreviate it to just .gop :))
(???) ol. No, I think you'd hear it about that one. ^_^
(???) -
(???) ----------------------------------- personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
(???) Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser@floodgap.com
(???) - CONJUGATION OF THE HULKING ENTOMOLOGIST: I big / I bag / I have bug --------
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Sun Aug 03 21:08:23 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
(???) elivery-date: Sun, 03 Aug 2008 21:08:23 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Sun, 03 Aug 2008 14:05:12 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from main.gmane.org ([80.91.229.2] helo=ciao.gmane.org)
(???) eceived: from root by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43)
(???) eceived: from bl9-230-134.dsl.telepac.pt ([85.242.230.134])
(???) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian))
(???) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00
(???) for <gopher@complete.org>; Sun, 03 Aug 2008 18:15:02 +0000
(???) eceived: from nunojsilva by bl9-230-134.dsl.telepac.pt with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian))
(???) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00
(???) for <gopher@complete.org>; Sun, 03 Aug 2008 18:15:02 +0000
(???) -Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) rom: nunojsilva@ist.utl.pt (Nuno J. Silva)
(???) ate: Sun, 03 Aug 2008 18:16:03 +0100
(???) ines: 57
(???) essage-ID: <87bq0ahve4.fsf@deschutes.local.lan>
(???) eferences: <4884d320.1b018e0a.7b70.ffffc3b8@mx.google.com> <200807220356.m6M3uRYg006640@floodgap.com> <e78c27470807221042x274bba70i933a01875709e959@mail.gmail.com> <20080722181845.GA8296@port70.net>
(???) ime-Version: 1.0
(???) ontent-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
(???) -Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org
(???) -Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: bl9-230-134.dsl.telepac.pt
(???) ser-Agent: Gnus/5.1008 (Gnus v5.10.8) Emacs/22.2 (gnu/linux)
(???) ancel-Lock: sha1:ttx3YWo1/CAWvX9hfEAiEThZINA=
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sun, 03 Aug 2008 14:05:12 -0500
(???) -archive-position: 2307
(???) -ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: nunojsilva@ist.utl.pt
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sun, 03 Aug 2008 14:05:23 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Item Type Suggestions
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 25
(???) ate Nagy <k-zed@hactar.net> writes:
(???) snip/>
(???) About URLs: Someone has mentioned "relative links" in a previous mail -
(???) that was strange enough in itself, since there is no such thing in
(???) gopher. (Thus, it "cannot be broken"; and it especially cannot be broken
(???) in the server, which would put the mime bits in there itself, most
(???) probably after having generated the full selectors from all those
(???) relative links the content generator user supplied.)
(???) n implementation of 'go up one level' command would be just eating
(???) very char from the right side of the selector until a slash was
(???) eached, and browsing that resource (which would be rendered as gopher
(???) enu). (Although this might not work with some configuration, it would
(???) ork in lots of servers (right?))
(???) e would have to add some sort of intelligence so when receiving an url
(???) f this sort (the ones with the mime type), the client would just use
(???) he part which is sent to server to get the 'one level above' url.
(IMG) IRC, the gopher protocol url has just one character for the data type,
(???) he remaining of the url being used as the selector, when requesting the
(DOC) ata. Waiting for a parenthesis would break some servers, like sdf,
(???) hich uses selectors like 1/users for gopher://sdf-eu.org/11/users, and
(???) xpects '1/' to be sent (that being the expected procedure, rfc 1738
(???) and 4266 seems to state the same - gophertype is just one character)).
(???) I would support a variation where we'd write off gopher+ as the
(???) complete failure it is, and just stick mime fields at the end of the
(???) menu records.
(???) opher+ or mime-at-the-end-of-the-menu-entry have both the same problem,
(???) hen you have an url, it's not possible to say what's the document type.
(???) possible workaround: get the parent menu (using the same method I
(???) entioned before - I don't remember anything stating the selectors are
(SND) upposed to be built with a slash between each directory name, I need to
(???) ead the rfc again (even if gopher is supposed to be hierarchical, what
(PNG) revents some server from using dots instead of slashes for directory
(SND) eparators?)), check the mime-type (for the mime-in-the-menu approach),
(???) r check if the entry has gopher+ data (then retrieve such data).
(???) snip/>
(???) -
(???) uno J. Silva (aka njsg)
(???) EIC student at Instituto Superior Técnico
(???) isbon, Portugal
(???) omepage: http://njsg.no.sapo.pt/
(???) opherspace: gopher://sdf-eu.org/11/users/njsg
(???) egistered Linux User #402207 - http://counter.li.org
(???) =-=-
(???) black cat crossing your path signifies that the animal is going
(SND) omewhere.
(???) -- Groucho Marx
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Sun Aug 03 21:08:40 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
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(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
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(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) rom: nunojsilva@ist.utl.pt (Nuno J. Silva)
(???) ate: Sun, 03 Aug 2008 18:16:03 +0100
(???) ines: 57
(???) essage-ID: <87bq0ahve4.fsf@deschutes.local.lan>
(???) eferences: <4884d320.1b018e0a.7b70.ffffc3b8@mx.google.com> <200807220356.m6M3uRYg006640@floodgap.com> <e78c27470807221042x274bba70i933a01875709e959@mail.gmail.com> <20080722181845.GA8296@port70.net>
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(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Item Type Suggestions
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 26
(???) ate Nagy <k-zed@hactar.net> writes:
(???) snip/>
(???) About URLs: Someone has mentioned "relative links" in a previous mail -
(???) that was strange enough in itself, since there is no such thing in
(???) gopher. (Thus, it "cannot be broken"; and it especially cannot be broken
(???) in the server, which would put the mime bits in there itself, most
(???) probably after having generated the full selectors from all those
(???) relative links the content generator user supplied.)
(???) n implementation of 'go up one level' command would be just eating
(???) very char from the right side of the selector until a slash was
(???) eached, and browsing that resource (which would be rendered as gopher
(???) enu). (Although this might not work with some configuration, it would
(???) ork in lots of servers (right?))
(???) e would have to add some sort of intelligence so when receiving an url
(???) f this sort (the ones with the mime type), the client would just use
(???) he part which is sent to server to get the 'one level above' url.
(IMG) IRC, the gopher protocol url has just one character for the data type,
(???) he remaining of the url being used as the selector, when requesting the
(DOC) ata. Waiting for a parenthesis would break some servers, like sdf,
(???) hich uses selectors like 1/users for gopher://sdf-eu.org/11/users, and
(???) xpects '1/' to be sent (that being the expected procedure, rfc 1738
(???) and 4266 seems to state the same - gophertype is just one character)).
(???) I would support a variation where we'd write off gopher+ as the
(???) complete failure it is, and just stick mime fields at the end of the
(???) menu records.
(???) opher+ or mime-at-the-end-of-the-menu-entry have both the same problem,
(???) hen you have an url, it's not possible to say what's the document type.
(???) possible workaround: get the parent menu (using the same method I
(???) entioned before - I don't remember anything stating the selectors are
(SND) upposed to be built with a slash between each directory name, I need to
(???) ead the rfc again (even if gopher is supposed to be hierarchical, what
(PNG) revents some server from using dots instead of slashes for directory
(SND) eparators?)), check the mime-type (for the mime-in-the-menu approach),
(???) r check if the entry has gopher+ data (then retrieve such data).
(???) snip/>
(???) -
(???) uno J. Silva (aka njsg)
(???) EIC student at Instituto Superior Técnico
(???) isbon, Portugal
(???) omepage: http://njsg.no.sapo.pt/
(???) opherspace: gopher://sdf-eu.org/11/users/njsg
(???) egistered Linux User #402207 - http://counter.li.org
(???) =-=-
(???) black cat crossing your path signifies that the animal is going
(SND) omewhere.
(???) -- Groucho Marx
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Sun Aug 03 21:25:45 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
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(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
(???) elivery-date: Sun, 03 Aug 2008 21:25:45 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Sun, 03 Aug 2008 14:23:50 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from morecp.net
(???) eceived: by port70.net (Postfix, from userid 1000)
(???) ate: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 21:23:44 +0200
(???) rom: Mate Nagy <k-zed@hactar.net>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) essage-ID: <20080803192343.GA10376@port70.net>
(???) eferences: <4884d320.1b018e0a.7b70.ffffc3b8@mx.google.com> <200807220356.m6M3uRYg006640@floodgap.com> <e78c27470807221042x274bba70i933a01875709e959@mail.gmail.com> <20080722181845.GA8296@port70.net> <87bq0ahve4.fsf@deschutes.local.lan>
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(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sun, 03 Aug 2008 14:23:59 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Item Type Suggestions
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 27
(???) ulloh,
(???) A possible workaround: get the parent menu (using the same method I
(???) mentioned before - I don't remember anything stating the selectors are
(???) supposed to be built with a slash between each directory name, I need to
(???) read the rfc again (even if gopher is supposed to be hierarchical, what
(???) prevents some server from using dots instead of slashes for directory
(???) separators?)), check the mime-type (for the mime-in-the-menu approach),
(???) or check if the entry has gopher+ data (then retrieve such data).
(???) Exactly - you can't rely on '/' being the separator, or that the last
(SND) ection cut off yields the valid parent dir, or even that there are
(DOC) irectories.
(???) At this point I'd much rather drop this protocol extension thing, and
(???) ocus on using the existing technology to the fullest.. whatever that
(???) eans :)
(???) ...
(???) For that matter, I'd love a client for Windows Mobile 6.. also for the
phone 3G :)
(???) On the server side: full text search engine. I have some experience
(???) ith using the HyperEstraier engine. I have about 16 gigabytes of text
ndexed; I can search and view results over Gopher (with a python
(???) mole"), it's pretty fast and convenient. It also supports boolean
(???) perators and phrase search.
(???) It doesn't have a Gopher spider currently per se, but it's fully open
(SND) ource; maybe we could fit a spider to it? (Or even get the existing
(???) eronica spider to talk to it?)
(???) (Setting up and initializing the search db (from local data) is very
(???) asy, so the required effort to play with it is minimal.)
(???) egards,
(???) Mate
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Sun Aug 03 21:25:58 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Sun, 03 Aug 2008 21:25:58 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Sun, 03 Aug 2008 14:23:50 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from morecp.net
(???) eceived: by port70.net (Postfix, from userid 1000)
(???) ate: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 21:23:44 +0200
(???) rom: Mate Nagy <k-zed@hactar.net>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) essage-ID: <20080803192343.GA10376@port70.net>
(???) eferences: <4884d320.1b018e0a.7b70.ffffc3b8@mx.google.com> <200807220356.m6M3uRYg006640@floodgap.com> <e78c27470807221042x274bba70i933a01875709e959@mail.gmail.com> <20080722181845.GA8296@port70.net> <87bq0ahve4.fsf@deschutes.local.lan>
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(???) ontent-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
(???) ontent-Disposition: inline
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(???) ser-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17)
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sun, 03 Aug 2008 14:23:49 -0500
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
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(???) recedence: bulk
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(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sun, 03 Aug 2008 14:23:59 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Item Type Suggestions
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 28
(???) ulloh,
(???) A possible workaround: get the parent menu (using the same method I
(???) mentioned before - I don't remember anything stating the selectors are
(???) supposed to be built with a slash between each directory name, I need to
(???) read the rfc again (even if gopher is supposed to be hierarchical, what
(???) prevents some server from using dots instead of slashes for directory
(???) separators?)), check the mime-type (for the mime-in-the-menu approach),
(???) or check if the entry has gopher+ data (then retrieve such data).
(???) Exactly - you can't rely on '/' being the separator, or that the last
(SND) ection cut off yields the valid parent dir, or even that there are
(DOC) irectories.
(???) At this point I'd much rather drop this protocol extension thing, and
(???) ocus on using the existing technology to the fullest.. whatever that
(???) eans :)
(???) ...
(???) For that matter, I'd love a client for Windows Mobile 6.. also for the
phone 3G :)
(???) On the server side: full text search engine. I have some experience
(???) ith using the HyperEstraier engine. I have about 16 gigabytes of text
ndexed; I can search and view results over Gopher (with a python
(???) mole"), it's pretty fast and convenient. It also supports boolean
(???) perators and phrase search.
(???) It doesn't have a Gopher spider currently per se, but it's fully open
(SND) ource; maybe we could fit a spider to it? (Or even get the existing
(???) eronica spider to talk to it?)
(???) (Setting up and initializing the search db (from local data) is very
(???) asy, so the required effort to play with it is minimal.)
(???) egards,
(???) Mate
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Sun Aug 03 21:33:11 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
(???) elivery-date: Sun, 03 Aug 2008 21:33:11 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Sun, 03 Aug 2008 14:31:34 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from main.gmane.org ([80.91.229.2] helo=ciao.gmane.org)
(???) eceived: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43)
(???) eceived: from bl9-230-134.dsl.telepac.pt ([85.242.230.134])
(???) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian))
(???) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00
(???) for <gopher@complete.org>; Sun, 03 Aug 2008 19:31:25 +0000
(???) eceived: from nunojsilva by bl9-230-134.dsl.telepac.pt with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian))
(???) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00
(???) for <gopher@complete.org>; Sun, 03 Aug 2008 19:31:25 +0000
(???) -Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) rom: nunojsilva@ist.utl.pt (Nuno J. Silva)
(???) ate: Sun, 03 Aug 2008 20:31:06 +0100
(???) ines: 36
(???) essage-ID: <871w15j3ph.fsf@deschutes.local.lan>
(???) eferences: <48862918.16048e0a.5861.1225@mx.google.com>
(???) ime-Version: 1.0
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(???) ser-Agent: Gnus/5.1008 (Gnus v5.10.8) Emacs/22.2 (gnu/linux)
(???) ancel-Lock: sha1:e4RZunXy5T796O3yVvD29zZdnCE=
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sun, 03 Aug 2008 14:31:34 -0500
(???) -archive-position: 2309
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(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: nunojsilva@ist.utl.pt
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sun, 03 Aug 2008 14:31:45 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Item Type Suggestions
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 29
(???) ason Nemrow <jnemrow@quix.us> writes:
(???) -----Original Message-----
(???) From: "Mate Nagy" <k-zed@hactar.net>
(???) snip/>
(???) > I would support a variation where we'd write off gopher+ as the
(???) > complete failure it is, and just stick mime fields at the end of the
(???) > menu records.
(???)
(???) Yes, my first thought is that just adding mime to the end of the menu entit=
(???) y would do the job simply and easily and, dare I say, gopherly. What do ot=
(???) her think of Mate's idea?
(???) hat about two tabs (no plus) to say 'no gopher+ data'? That way we
(???) ould still allow gopher+ to be used, and the mime data would be after
(???) he gopher+ field.
(???) menu item would be something like:
(???) ame<tab> selector<tab> server<tab> port[<tab> gopher+[<tab> mime]]
(???) [ .. ] = .. is optional)
(???) snip/>
(???) -
(???) uno J. Silva (aka njsg)
(???) EIC student at Instituto Superior Técnico
(???) isbon, Portugal
(???) omepage: http://njsg.no.sapo.pt/
(???) opherspace: gopher://sdf-eu.org/11/users/njsg
(???) egistered Linux User #402207 - http://counter.li.org
(???) =-=-
(???) computer is like an air conditioner, it stops working when you open
(???) indows.
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Sun Aug 03 21:33:31 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Sun, 03 Aug 2008 21:33:31 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Sun, 03 Aug 2008 14:31:34 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from main.gmane.org ([80.91.229.2] helo=ciao.gmane.org)
(???) eceived: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43)
(???) eceived: from bl9-230-134.dsl.telepac.pt ([85.242.230.134])
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(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) rom: nunojsilva@ist.utl.pt (Nuno J. Silva)
(???) ate: Sun, 03 Aug 2008 20:31:06 +0100
(???) ines: 36
(???) essage-ID: <871w15j3ph.fsf@deschutes.local.lan>
(???) eferences: <48862918.16048e0a.5861.1225@mx.google.com>
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(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
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(???) -list: gopher
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(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Item Type Suggestions
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 30
(???) ason Nemrow <jnemrow@quix.us> writes:
(???) -----Original Message-----
(???) From: "Mate Nagy" <k-zed@hactar.net>
(???) snip/>
(???) > I would support a variation where we'd write off gopher+ as the
(???) > complete failure it is, and just stick mime fields at the end of the
(???) > menu records.
(???)
(???) Yes, my first thought is that just adding mime to the end of the menu entit=
(???) y would do the job simply and easily and, dare I say, gopherly. What do ot=
(???) her think of Mate's idea?
(???) hat about two tabs (no plus) to say 'no gopher+ data'? That way we
(???) ould still allow gopher+ to be used, and the mime data would be after
(???) he gopher+ field.
(???) menu item would be something like:
(???) ame<tab> selector<tab> server<tab> port[<tab> gopher+[<tab> mime]]
(???) [ .. ] = .. is optional)
(???) snip/>
(???) -
(???) uno J. Silva (aka njsg)
(???) EIC student at Instituto Superior Técnico
(???) isbon, Portugal
(???) omepage: http://njsg.no.sapo.pt/
(???) opherspace: gopher://sdf-eu.org/11/users/njsg
(???) egistered Linux User #402207 - http://counter.li.org
(???) =-=-
(???) computer is like an air conditioner, it stops working when you open
(???) indows.
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Mon Aug 04 02:30:10 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
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(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=1.3 required=5.0 tests=AWL,RCVD_NUMERIC_HELO,
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
(???) elivery-date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 02:30:10 +0200
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(???) for <gopher@complete.org>; Mon, 04 Aug 2008 00:24:31 +0000
(???) -Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) rom: nunojsilva@ist.utl.pt (Nuno J. Silva)
(???) ate: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 01:24:13 +0100
(???) ines: 34
(???) essage-ID: <87iquhr5jm.fsf@deschutes.local.lan>
(???) eferences: <4884d320.1b018e0a.7b70.ffffc3b8@mx.google.com> <200807220356.m6M3uRYg006640@floodgap.com> <e78c27470807221042x274bba70i933a01875709e959@mail.gmail.com> <20080722181845.GA8296@port70.net> <87bq0ahve4.fsf@deschutes.local.lan> <20080803192343.GA10376@port70.net>
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(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Item Type Suggestions
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 31
(???) ate Nagy <k-zed@hactar.net> writes:
(???) Hulloh,
(???) > A possible workaround: get the parent menu (using the same method I
(???) > mentioned before - I don't remember anything stating the selectors are
(???) > supposed to be built with a slash between each directory name, I need to
(???) > read the rfc again (even if gopher is supposed to be hierarchical, what
(???) > prevents some server from using dots instead of slashes for directory
(???) > separators?)), check the mime-type (for the mime-in-the-menu approach),
(???) > or check if the entry has gopher+ data (then retrieve such data).
(???)
(???) Exactly - you can't rely on '/' being the separator, or that the last
(???) section cut off yields the valid parent dir, or even that there are
(???) directories.
(???) nd here goes an example against the method I suggested.
(???) n url pointing at a jumpjet resource:
(GIF) opher://VE131.jumpjet.info/99%5cCEM%5cDisaster%3dAir%5cAre_You_Ready-Hurricane.pdf
(???) ^^^ ^^^ ^^^
(???) snip/>
(???) -
(???) uno J. Silva (aka njsg)
(???) EIC student at Instituto Superior Técnico
(???) isbon, Portugal
(???) omepage: http://njsg.no.sapo.pt/
(???) opherspace: gopher://sdf-eu.org/11/users/njsg
(???) egistered Linux User #402207 - http://counter.li.org
(???) =-=-
(???) `Is there any way I can help without actually getting involved?''
(???) -- Jennifer, WKRP
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Mon Aug 04 02:30:39 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
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(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 02:30:39 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Sun, 03 Aug 2008 19:24:39 -0500 (CDT)
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(???) for <gopher@complete.org>; Mon, 04 Aug 2008 00:24:31 +0000
(???) -Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) rom: nunojsilva@ist.utl.pt (Nuno J. Silva)
(???) ate: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 01:24:13 +0100
(???) ines: 34
(???) essage-ID: <87iquhr5jm.fsf@deschutes.local.lan>
(???) eferences: <4884d320.1b018e0a.7b70.ffffc3b8@mx.google.com> <200807220356.m6M3uRYg006640@floodgap.com> <e78c27470807221042x274bba70i933a01875709e959@mail.gmail.com> <20080722181845.GA8296@port70.net> <87bq0ahve4.fsf@deschutes.local.lan> <20080803192343.GA10376@port70.net>
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(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
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(???) -list: gopher
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(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Item Type Suggestions
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 32
(???) ate Nagy <k-zed@hactar.net> writes:
(???) Hulloh,
(???) > A possible workaround: get the parent menu (using the same method I
(???) > mentioned before - I don't remember anything stating the selectors are
(???) > supposed to be built with a slash between each directory name, I need to
(???) > read the rfc again (even if gopher is supposed to be hierarchical, what
(???) > prevents some server from using dots instead of slashes for directory
(???) > separators?)), check the mime-type (for the mime-in-the-menu approach),
(???) > or check if the entry has gopher+ data (then retrieve such data).
(???)
(???) Exactly - you can't rely on '/' being the separator, or that the last
(???) section cut off yields the valid parent dir, or even that there are
(???) directories.
(???) nd here goes an example against the method I suggested.
(???) n url pointing at a jumpjet resource:
(GIF) opher://VE131.jumpjet.info/99%5cCEM%5cDisaster%3dAir%5cAre_You_Ready-Hurricane.pdf
(???) ^^^ ^^^ ^^^
(???) snip/>
(???) -
(???) uno J. Silva (aka njsg)
(???) EIC student at Instituto Superior Técnico
(???) isbon, Portugal
(???) omepage: http://njsg.no.sapo.pt/
(???) opherspace: gopher://sdf-eu.org/11/users/njsg
(???) egistered Linux User #402207 - http://counter.li.org
(???) =-=-
(???) `Is there any way I can help without actually getting involved?''
(???) -- Jennifer, WKRP
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Mon Aug 04 04:42:40 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
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(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,DKIM_SIGNED,SPF_HELO_PASS,
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 04:42:40 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Sun, 03 Aug 2008 21:38:48 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from web35703.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([66.163.179.157])
(???) eceived: (qmail 74495 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Aug 2008 02:38:37 -0000
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(???) eceived: from [209.216.94.5] by web35703.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 03 Aug 2008 19:38:37 PDT
(???) -Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.218
(???) ate: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 19:38:37 -0700 (PDT)
(???) rom: JumpJet Mailbox <jumpjetinfo@yahoo.com>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(???) ontent-type: text/plain
(???) essage-ID: <721789.74404.qm@web35703.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
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(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
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(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
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(???) -list: gopher
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(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Item Type Suggestions
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 33
(???) ackslashes are a native feature of all DOS and Windows based Gopher Servers. Essentially, these servers just make the directory structure of a hard drive visible as Gopher Selectors (kind of like you would do with directories on a Novell Server).
(???)
(TN3) his is why these Servers are so incredibly easy to get up and running. Just create a directory to be the Gopher Root, then add / delete / change sub-directories and files to your hearts content (even the Gopher Links are easy to create, as they are nothing more than a few lines of text typed into specially named text files).
(???) -- On Sun, 8/3/08, Nuno J. Silva <nunojsilva@ist.utl.pt> wrote:
(???) rom: Nuno J. Silva <nunojsilva@ist.utl.pt>
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Item Type Suggestions
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) ate: Sunday, August 3, 2008, 8:24 PM
(???) ate Nagy <k-zed@hactar.net> writes:
(???) Hulloh,
(???) > A possible workaround: get the parent menu (using the same method I
(???) > mentioned before - I don't remember anything stating the selectors
(???) re
(???) > supposed to be built with a slash between each directory name, I need
(???) o
(???) > read the rfc again (even if gopher is supposed to be hierarchical,
(???) hat
(???) > prevents some server from using dots instead of slashes for directory
(???) > separators?)), check the mime-type (for the mime-in-the-menu
(???) pproach),
(???) > or check if the entry has gopher+ data (then retrieve such data).
(???)
(???) Exactly - you can't rely on '/' being the separator, or that
(???) he last
(???) section cut off yields the valid parent dir, or even that there are
(???) directories.
(???) nd here goes an example against the method I suggested.
(???) n url pointing at a jumpjet resource:
(GIF) opher://VE131.jumpjet.info/99%5cCEM%5cDisaster%3dAir%5cAre_You_Ready-Hurricane.pdf
(???) ^^^ ^^^ ^^^
(???) snip/>
(???) -
(???) uno J. Silva (aka njsg)
(???) EIC student at Instituto Superior Técnico
(???) isbon, Portugal
(???) omepage: http://njsg.no.sapo.pt/
(???) opherspace: gopher://sdf-eu.org/11/users/njsg
(???) egistered Linux User #402207 - http://counter.li.org
(???) =-=-
(???) `Is there any way I can help without actually getting involved?''
(???) -- Jennifer, WKRP
(???)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Mon Aug 04 04:42:26 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,DKIM_SIGNED,SPF_HELO_PASS,
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
(???) elivery-date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 04:42:26 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Sun, 03 Aug 2008 21:38:48 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from web35703.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([66.163.179.157])
(???) eceived: (qmail 74495 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Aug 2008 02:38:37 -0000
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(???) ate: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 19:38:37 -0700 (PDT)
(???) rom: JumpJet Mailbox <jumpjetinfo@yahoo.com>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
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(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Item Type Suggestions
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
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(???) tatus: O
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(???) -Keywords:
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(???) ackslashes are a native feature of all DOS and Windows based Gopher Servers. Essentially, these servers just make the directory structure of a hard drive visible as Gopher Selectors (kind of like you would do with directories on a Novell Server).
(???)
(TN3) his is why these Servers are so incredibly easy to get up and running. Just create a directory to be the Gopher Root, then add / delete / change sub-directories and files to your hearts content (even the Gopher Links are easy to create, as they are nothing more than a few lines of text typed into specially named text files).
(???) -- On Sun, 8/3/08, Nuno J. Silva <nunojsilva@ist.utl.pt> wrote:
(???) rom: Nuno J. Silva <nunojsilva@ist.utl.pt>
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Item Type Suggestions
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) ate: Sunday, August 3, 2008, 8:24 PM
(???) ate Nagy <k-zed@hactar.net> writes:
(???) Hulloh,
(???) > A possible workaround: get the parent menu (using the same method I
(???) > mentioned before - I don't remember anything stating the selectors
(???) re
(???) > supposed to be built with a slash between each directory name, I need
(???) o
(???) > read the rfc again (even if gopher is supposed to be hierarchical,
(???) hat
(???) > prevents some server from using dots instead of slashes for directory
(???) > separators?)), check the mime-type (for the mime-in-the-menu
(???) pproach),
(???) > or check if the entry has gopher+ data (then retrieve such data).
(???)
(???) Exactly - you can't rely on '/' being the separator, or that
(???) he last
(???) section cut off yields the valid parent dir, or even that there are
(???) directories.
(???) nd here goes an example against the method I suggested.
(???) n url pointing at a jumpjet resource:
(GIF) opher://VE131.jumpjet.info/99%5cCEM%5cDisaster%3dAir%5cAre_You_Ready-Hurricane.pdf
(???) ^^^ ^^^ ^^^
(???) snip/>
(???) -
(???) uno J. Silva (aka njsg)
(???) EIC student at Instituto Superior Técnico
(???) isbon, Portugal
(???) omepage: http://njsg.no.sapo.pt/
(???) opherspace: gopher://sdf-eu.org/11/users/njsg
(???) egistered Linux User #402207 - http://counter.li.org
(???) =-=-
(???) `Is there any way I can help without actually getting involved?''
(???) -- Jennifer, WKRP
(???)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Mon Aug 04 04:57:02 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
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(???) elivery-date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 04:57:02 +0200
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(???) ate: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 19:49:32 -0700 (PDT)
(???) rom: JumpJet Mailbox <jumpjetinfo@yahoo.com>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
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(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Item Type Suggestions
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 35
(???) es, lets focus on taking advantage of what Gopher already has, before we worry about extending things.
(???)
(???) n the Server Side, note that Windows still lacks any kind of Gopher Spider/Crawler, GopherMail Server (i.e., a way to return Gopher pages via email), or Gopher Document Search Engine. These would make excellent Gopher projects for Windows programmers.
(???) -- On Sun, 8/3/08, Mate Nagy <k-zed@hactar.net> wrote:
(???) rom: Mate Nagy <k-zed@hactar.net>
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Item Type Suggestions
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) ate: Sunday, August 3, 2008, 3:23 PM
(???) ulloh,
(???) A possible workaround: get the parent menu (using the same method I
(???) mentioned before - I don't remember anything stating the selectors are
(???) supposed to be built with a slash between each directory name, I need to
(???) read the rfc again (even if gopher is supposed to be hierarchical, what
(???) prevents some server from using dots instead of slashes for directory
(???) separators?)), check the mime-type (for the mime-in-the-menu approach),
(???) or check if the entry has gopher+ data (then retrieve such data).
(???) Exactly - you can't rely on '/' being the separator, or that the
(???) ast
(SND) ection cut off yields the valid parent dir, or even that there are
(DOC) irectories.
(???) At this point I'd much rather drop this protocol extension thing, and
(???) ocus on using the existing technology to the fullest.. whatever that
(???) eans :)
(???) ...
(???) For that matter, I'd love a client for Windows Mobile 6.. also for the
phone 3G :)
(???) On the server side: full text search engine. I have some experience
(???) ith using the HyperEstraier engine. I have about 16 gigabytes of text
ndexed; I can search and view results over Gopher (with a python
(???) mole"), it's pretty fast and convenient. It also supports
(???) oolean
(???) perators and phrase search.
(???) It doesn't have a Gopher spider currently per se, but it's fully open
(SND) ource; maybe we could fit a spider to it? (Or even get the existing
(???) eronica spider to talk to it?)
(???) (Setting up and initializing the search db (from local data) is very
(???) asy, so the required effort to play with it is minimal.)
(???) egards,
(???) Mate
(???)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Mon Aug 04 04:56:50 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
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(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,DKIM_SIGNED,SPF_HELO_PASS,
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
(???) elivery-date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 04:56:50 +0200
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(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
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(???) ate: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 19:49:32 -0700 (PDT)
(???) rom: JumpJet Mailbox <jumpjetinfo@yahoo.com>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
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(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sun, 03 Aug 2008 21:53:53 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Item Type Suggestions
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 36
(???) es, lets focus on taking advantage of what Gopher already has, before we worry about extending things.
(???)
(???) n the Server Side, note that Windows still lacks any kind of Gopher Spider/Crawler, GopherMail Server (i.e., a way to return Gopher pages via email), or Gopher Document Search Engine. These would make excellent Gopher projects for Windows programmers.
(???) -- On Sun, 8/3/08, Mate Nagy <k-zed@hactar.net> wrote:
(???) rom: Mate Nagy <k-zed@hactar.net>
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Item Type Suggestions
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) ate: Sunday, August 3, 2008, 3:23 PM
(???) ulloh,
(???) A possible workaround: get the parent menu (using the same method I
(???) mentioned before - I don't remember anything stating the selectors are
(???) supposed to be built with a slash between each directory name, I need to
(???) read the rfc again (even if gopher is supposed to be hierarchical, what
(???) prevents some server from using dots instead of slashes for directory
(???) separators?)), check the mime-type (for the mime-in-the-menu approach),
(???) or check if the entry has gopher+ data (then retrieve such data).
(???) Exactly - you can't rely on '/' being the separator, or that the
(???) ast
(SND) ection cut off yields the valid parent dir, or even that there are
(DOC) irectories.
(???) At this point I'd much rather drop this protocol extension thing, and
(???) ocus on using the existing technology to the fullest.. whatever that
(???) eans :)
(???) ...
(???) For that matter, I'd love a client for Windows Mobile 6.. also for the
phone 3G :)
(???) On the server side: full text search engine. I have some experience
(???) ith using the HyperEstraier engine. I have about 16 gigabytes of text
ndexed; I can search and view results over Gopher (with a python
(???) mole"), it's pretty fast and convenient. It also supports
(???) oolean
(???) perators and phrase search.
(???) It doesn't have a Gopher spider currently per se, but it's fully open
(SND) ource; maybe we could fit a spider to it? (Or even get the existing
(???) eronica spider to talk to it?)
(???) (Setting up and initializing the search db (from local data) is very
(???) asy, so the required effort to play with it is minimal.)
(???) egards,
(???) Mate
(???)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Mon Aug 04 06:17:53 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
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(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,DKIM_SIGNED,SPF_HELO_PASS,
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 06:17:53 +0200
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(???) ate: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 23:20:15 -0400
(???) rom: "Hugh Guiney" <hugh.guiney@gmail.com>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <20080803170120.1e013417@deschutes.local.lan>
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(???) eferences: <4881C93A.4000208@quix.us> <4883B914.3080202@sinedev.org>
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(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
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(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Gopherness
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 37
(???) n Sun, Aug 3, 2008 at 12:01 PM, Nuno J. Silva <nunojsilva@ist.utl.pt> wrote:
(???) You can always set the jpeg quality to 100% when creating the file
(???) (I don't know how much tools allow you to do that - at least the GIMP
(???) and ImageMagick do it), but it might be useful to allow another image
(???) type, for the examples you described. Although gif is associated with
(???) 'g', i'd pick png, as the former is proprietary. (How is that issue? Is
(???) there still any 'active' patent on the mechanisms used to create gif
(???) pictures? I remember reading somewhere that png was better than gif,
(???) but if those patent issues are over, we could just keep gif.)
(???) lthough GIFs were "proprietary" at one time (it was actually only the
(???) ompression scheme used in GIF, LZW, which Unisys owned and was
(???) icensing... for software implementations; not to individual GIF
(???) iles, despite popular ideas to the contrary), the patent has been
(???) xpired since 2003 and are now completely free.
(???) NG was developed as a replacement to GIF in light of the controversy,
(???) ut there are still technical reasons to use it over GIF, such as
(???) lpha transparency (treated as an addition to the standard RGB
(???) hannels rather than as an special color that is either on or off),
(???) etter compression, and support for more than 256 colors.
(IMG) know this is probably more information than any gopher-wrangler
(???) eeds to know, but as a graphic artist/Web developer I thought I'd
(???) hime in. :)
(???) There's utf8. But, when dealing with english texts, keeping them to
(???) ASCII is, IMO, the best choice (unless it's some sort of scientific
(???) text where using the greek letters themselves instead of using their
(???) names is more readable (and it is not possible to use ASCII characters
(???) instead)).
(IMG) 'd actually love to see UTF-8 implemented in Gopher; has this been
(DOC) one before? ASCII may have been the standard back when the original
(SND) pec was written, but it seems quite limiting to me now that there's
(???) een such a large effort toward standardized internationalization
(???) nline, and that most modern OS's are compiled with UTF-8 support from
(???) he start. I know UTF is backwards-compatible with ASCII, so a
(???) ransition wouldn't be too difficult, would it? Are there actual
(???) enefits to keeping things strictly ASCII?
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Mon Aug 04 06:17:35 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
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(???) elivery-date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 06:17:35 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Sun, 03 Aug 2008 23:14:49 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from wf-out-1314.google.com ([209.85.200.174])
(???) eceived: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 25so2602838wfa.0
(???) for <gopher@complete.org>; Sun, 03 Aug 2008 21:14:44 -0700 (PDT)
(???) KIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
(???) d=gmail.com; s=gamma;
(???) h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to
(???) :subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type
(???) :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references;
(???) bh=/ysDg0dg6Ii+3IsTo2EHu9fHD1JEFV92dkcejrsLISg=;
(???) b=EAfHgxoLLBcdP5MTqcHBiG6k0HS0V67z0UKL8OW8xMGni/NXHwhmjHO72c6yXkSY12
(???) wPRZfFLX5+MqoqBdNNZFfmTNnwNO+5Kiq6v1wSDxpOZp1F4S6+9Y0R2l67lw9Gg5akYd
(???) EyHgfhwtb3qX/h57k5yB2mP2CA5x9KSinT6qw=
(???) omainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws;
(???) d=gmail.com; s=gamma;
(???) h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version
(???) :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition
(???) :references;
(???) b=XkPQuTa9KQYIP5/kfeepJ65rwCTwXDy9xS6M94KdKIF5fTSGnlKoNQWX3prMFBS9xx
(???) cgypyMdOSVOCYMQiSj5tLNY1GdnAHH+0GBdiFIxuAMJaFVePA55Bl75Zm5MKGNlttrYM
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(???) ate: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 23:20:15 -0400
(???) rom: "Hugh Guiney" <hugh.guiney@gmail.com>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <20080803170120.1e013417@deschutes.local.lan>
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(???) eferences: <4881C93A.4000208@quix.us> <4883B914.3080202@sinedev.org>
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(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Gopherness
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
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(???) n Sun, Aug 3, 2008 at 12:01 PM, Nuno J. Silva <nunojsilva@ist.utl.pt> wrote:
(???) You can always set the jpeg quality to 100% when creating the file
(???) (I don't know how much tools allow you to do that - at least the GIMP
(???) and ImageMagick do it), but it might be useful to allow another image
(???) type, for the examples you described. Although gif is associated with
(???) 'g', i'd pick png, as the former is proprietary. (How is that issue? Is
(???) there still any 'active' patent on the mechanisms used to create gif
(???) pictures? I remember reading somewhere that png was better than gif,
(???) but if those patent issues are over, we could just keep gif.)
(???) lthough GIFs were "proprietary" at one time (it was actually only the
(???) ompression scheme used in GIF, LZW, which Unisys owned and was
(???) icensing... for software implementations; not to individual GIF
(???) iles, despite popular ideas to the contrary), the patent has been
(???) xpired since 2003 and are now completely free.
(???) NG was developed as a replacement to GIF in light of the controversy,
(???) ut there are still technical reasons to use it over GIF, such as
(???) lpha transparency (treated as an addition to the standard RGB
(???) hannels rather than as an special color that is either on or off),
(???) etter compression, and support for more than 256 colors.
(IMG) know this is probably more information than any gopher-wrangler
(???) eeds to know, but as a graphic artist/Web developer I thought I'd
(???) hime in. :)
(???) There's utf8. But, when dealing with english texts, keeping them to
(???) ASCII is, IMO, the best choice (unless it's some sort of scientific
(???) text where using the greek letters themselves instead of using their
(???) names is more readable (and it is not possible to use ASCII characters
(???) instead)).
(IMG) 'd actually love to see UTF-8 implemented in Gopher; has this been
(DOC) one before? ASCII may have been the standard back when the original
(SND) pec was written, but it seems quite limiting to me now that there's
(???) een such a large effort toward standardized internationalization
(???) nline, and that most modern OS's are compiled with UTF-8 support from
(???) he start. I know UTF is backwards-compatible with ASCII, so a
(???) ransition wouldn't be too difficult, would it? Are there actual
(???) enefits to keeping things strictly ASCII?
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Mon Aug 04 06:33:16 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
(???) elivery-date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 06:33:16 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Sun, 03 Aug 2008 23:31:27 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from floodgap.com ([66.159.214.137] ident=elvis)
(???) eceived: (from spectre@localhost)
(???) rom: Cameron Kaiser <spectre@floodgap.com>
(???) essage-Id: <200808040431.m744VMeF023196@floodgap.com>
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <2a1386f80808032020t1726ce77s9b3aa1f15b126370@mail.gmail.com> from Hugh Guiney at "Aug 3, 8 11:20:15 pm"
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) ate: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 21:31:22 -0700 (PDT)
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(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
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(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Gopherness
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 39
(???) > There's utf8. But, when dealing with english texts, keeping them to
(???) > ASCII is, IMO, the best choice (unless it's some sort of scientific
(???) > text where using the greek letters themselves instead of using their
(???) > names is more readable (and it is not possible to use ASCII characters
(???) > instead)).
(???)
(???) I'd actually love to see UTF-8 implemented in Gopher; has this been
(???) done before? ASCII may have been the standard back when the original
(???) spec was written, but it seems quite limiting to me now that there's
(???) been such a large effort toward standardized internationalization
(???) online, and that most modern OS's are compiled with UTF-8 support from
(???) the start. I know UTF is backwards-compatible with ASCII, so a
(???) transition wouldn't be too difficult, would it? Are there actual
(???) benefits to keeping things strictly ASCII?
(IMG) can see where it might be troublesome for filenames and selectors to be
(???) TF-8, although that would be a local filesystem and/or server issue.
(???) owever, there's nothing really preventing the use of UTF-8 in Gopher,
(???) nd in fact I am personally aware of several sites that use it. Overbite
(DOC) oes support it and the most current version has a bug with encoding smoked
(???) ut which should make it nearly perfect. I was testing it on both a Big5
(???) ncoded Chinese gopher site and another UTF-8 encoded menu, and it renders
(???) orrectly.
(???) -
(???) ----------------------------------- personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
(???) Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser@floodgap.com
(???) - You do not have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body. -- C.S. Lewis -----
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Mon Aug 04 06:33:37 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 06:33:37 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Sun, 03 Aug 2008 23:31:27 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from floodgap.com ([66.159.214.137] ident=elvis)
(???) eceived: (from spectre@localhost)
(???) rom: Cameron Kaiser <spectre@floodgap.com>
(???) essage-Id: <200808040431.m744VMeF023196@floodgap.com>
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <2a1386f80808032020t1726ce77s9b3aa1f15b126370@mail.gmail.com> from Hugh Guiney at "Aug 3, 8 11:20:15 pm"
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) ate: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 21:31:22 -0700 (PDT)
(???) -Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)]
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(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
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(???) recedence: bulk
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(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sun, 03 Aug 2008 23:31:37 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Gopherness
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 40
(???) > There's utf8. But, when dealing with english texts, keeping them to
(???) > ASCII is, IMO, the best choice (unless it's some sort of scientific
(???) > text where using the greek letters themselves instead of using their
(???) > names is more readable (and it is not possible to use ASCII characters
(???) > instead)).
(???)
(???) I'd actually love to see UTF-8 implemented in Gopher; has this been
(???) done before? ASCII may have been the standard back when the original
(???) spec was written, but it seems quite limiting to me now that there's
(???) been such a large effort toward standardized internationalization
(???) online, and that most modern OS's are compiled with UTF-8 support from
(???) the start. I know UTF is backwards-compatible with ASCII, so a
(???) transition wouldn't be too difficult, would it? Are there actual
(???) benefits to keeping things strictly ASCII?
(IMG) can see where it might be troublesome for filenames and selectors to be
(???) TF-8, although that would be a local filesystem and/or server issue.
(???) owever, there's nothing really preventing the use of UTF-8 in Gopher,
(???) nd in fact I am personally aware of several sites that use it. Overbite
(DOC) oes support it and the most current version has a bug with encoding smoked
(???) ut which should make it nearly perfect. I was testing it on both a Big5
(???) ncoded Chinese gopher site and another UTF-8 encoded menu, and it renders
(???) orrectly.
(???) -
(???) ----------------------------------- personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
(???) Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser@floodgap.com
(???) - You do not have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body. -- C.S. Lewis -----
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Mon Aug 04 06:39:31 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
(???) elivery-date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 06:39:31 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Sun, 03 Aug 2008 23:37:47 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from floodgap.com ([66.159.214.137] ident=elvis)
(???) eceived: (from spectre@localhost)
(???) rom: Cameron Kaiser <spectre@floodgap.com>
(???) essage-Id: <200808040437.m744bgcL028478@floodgap.com>
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <721789.74404.qm@web35703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> from JumpJet Mailbox at "Aug 3, 8 07:38:37 pm"
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) ate: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 21:37:42 -0700 (PDT)
(???) -Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)]
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(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sun, 03 Aug 2008 23:37:47 -0500
(???) -archive-position: 2315
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(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: spectre@floodgap.com
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sun, 03 Aug 2008 23:37:57 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Item Type Suggestions
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 41
(???) > > Exactly - you can't rely on '/' being the separator, or that the last
(???) > > section cut off yields the valid parent dir, or even that there are
(???) > > directories.
(???) > And here goes an example against the method I suggested.
(???) > An url pointing at a jumpjet resource:
(???) Backslashes are a native feature of all DOS and Windows based Gopher
(???) Servers.
(???) xactly. What Nuno was getting at is that the path separator will vary from
(SND) ystem to system -- off the top of my head, I can think of \ (FAT), /, :
(???) Mac HFS), etc. And then there's VMS, and ...
(IMG) even have an old Alpha Micro server here and it doesn't *have* a concept
(???) f paths at all, just ersatzes, disks and PPNs.
(???) FAIC, trying to parse the selector for parent menus is just going to be a
(???) ig kludge and won't work all the time or everywhere.
(???) -
(???) ----------------------------------- personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
(???) Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser@floodgap.com
(???) - With a rubber duck, one's never alone. -- Douglas Adams, "HGTTG" -----------
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Mon Aug 04 06:39:42 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
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(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 06:39:42 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Sun, 03 Aug 2008 23:37:47 -0500 (CDT)
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(???) eceived: (from spectre@localhost)
(???) rom: Cameron Kaiser <spectre@floodgap.com>
(???) essage-Id: <200808040437.m744bgcL028478@floodgap.com>
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <721789.74404.qm@web35703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> from JumpJet Mailbox at "Aug 3, 8 07:38:37 pm"
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) ate: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 21:37:42 -0700 (PDT)
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(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sun, 03 Aug 2008 23:37:57 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Item Type Suggestions
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 42
(???) > > Exactly - you can't rely on '/' being the separator, or that the last
(???) > > section cut off yields the valid parent dir, or even that there are
(???) > > directories.
(???) > And here goes an example against the method I suggested.
(???) > An url pointing at a jumpjet resource:
(???) Backslashes are a native feature of all DOS and Windows based Gopher
(???) Servers.
(???) xactly. What Nuno was getting at is that the path separator will vary from
(SND) ystem to system -- off the top of my head, I can think of \ (FAT), /, :
(???) Mac HFS), etc. And then there's VMS, and ...
(IMG) even have an old Alpha Micro server here and it doesn't *have* a concept
(???) f paths at all, just ersatzes, disks and PPNs.
(???) FAIC, trying to parse the selector for parent menus is just going to be a
(???) ig kludge and won't work all the time or everywhere.
(???) -
(???) ----------------------------------- personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
(???) Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser@floodgap.com
(???) - With a rubber duck, one's never alone. -- Douglas Adams, "HGTTG" -----------
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Mon Aug 04 06:47:33 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
(???) elivery-date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 06:47:33 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Sun, 03 Aug 2008 23:45:08 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from floodgap.com ([66.159.214.137] ident=elvis)
(???) eceived: (from spectre@localhost)
(???) rom: Cameron Kaiser <spectre@floodgap.com>
(???) essage-Id: <200808040445.m744j3xP012528@floodgap.com>
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <20080803192343.GA10376@port70.net> from Mate Nagy at "Aug 3, 8 09:23:44 pm"
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) ate: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 21:45:03 -0700 (PDT)
(???) -Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)]
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(???) ontent-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sun, 03 Aug 2008 23:45:08 -0500
(???) -archive-position: 2316
(???) -ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: spectre@floodgap.com
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sun, 03 Aug 2008 23:45:17 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Item Type Suggestions
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 43
(???) At this point I'd much rather drop this protocol extension thing, and
(???) focus on using the existing technology to the fullest.. whatever that
(???) means :)
(IMG) 'm kind of getting there myself, though the perfectionist in me still
(???) ants perfect determinism for any given item type. I think I need to put
(???) You Can't Always Get What You Want" on loop for a few days.
(???) For that matter, I'd love a client for Windows Mobile 6.. also for the
(???) iphone 3G :)
(IMG) was playing with writing something for the iPhone, but I'm getting very
rritated with Apple's SDKs and programmer support is absolutely nil. Also,
(IMG) don't like Objective-C very much.
(???) On the server side: full text search engine. I have some experience
(???) with using the HyperEstraier engine. I have about 16 gigabytes of text
(???) indexed; I can search and view results over Gopher (with a python
(???) "mole"), it's pretty fast and convenient. It also supports boolean
(???) operators and phrase search.
(???) It doesn't have a Gopher spider currently per se, but it's fully open
(???) source; maybe we could fit a spider to it? (Or even get the existing
(???) Veronica spider to talk to it?)
(???) (Setting up and initializing the search db (from local data) is very
(???) easy, so the required effort to play with it is minimal.)
(???) hat text do you have indexed? I'd rather not have Veronica talking to
(???) nything but its own internal data sources (nothing personal, I'm just
(PNG) aranoid like that), but I'd love to see another search solution on the
(SND) cene.
(???) -
(???) ----------------------------------- personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
(???) Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser@floodgap.com
(???) - This message will self-destruct in five seconds. Good luck, Jim. -- M:I ----
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Mon Aug 04 06:47:45 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 06:47:45 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Sun, 03 Aug 2008 23:45:08 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from floodgap.com ([66.159.214.137] ident=elvis)
(???) eceived: (from spectre@localhost)
(???) rom: Cameron Kaiser <spectre@floodgap.com>
(???) essage-Id: <200808040445.m744j3xP012528@floodgap.com>
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <20080803192343.GA10376@port70.net> from Mate Nagy at "Aug 3, 8 09:23:44 pm"
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) ate: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 21:45:03 -0700 (PDT)
(???) -Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)]
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(???) ontent-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sun, 03 Aug 2008 23:45:08 -0500
(???) -archive-position: 2316
(???) -ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: spectre@floodgap.com
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sun, 03 Aug 2008 23:45:17 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Item Type Suggestions
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 44
(???) At this point I'd much rather drop this protocol extension thing, and
(???) focus on using the existing technology to the fullest.. whatever that
(???) means :)
(IMG) 'm kind of getting there myself, though the perfectionist in me still
(???) ants perfect determinism for any given item type. I think I need to put
(???) You Can't Always Get What You Want" on loop for a few days.
(???) For that matter, I'd love a client for Windows Mobile 6.. also for the
(???) iphone 3G :)
(IMG) was playing with writing something for the iPhone, but I'm getting very
rritated with Apple's SDKs and programmer support is absolutely nil. Also,
(IMG) don't like Objective-C very much.
(???) On the server side: full text search engine. I have some experience
(???) with using the HyperEstraier engine. I have about 16 gigabytes of text
(???) indexed; I can search and view results over Gopher (with a python
(???) "mole"), it's pretty fast and convenient. It also supports boolean
(???) operators and phrase search.
(???) It doesn't have a Gopher spider currently per se, but it's fully open
(???) source; maybe we could fit a spider to it? (Or even get the existing
(???) Veronica spider to talk to it?)
(???) (Setting up and initializing the search db (from local data) is very
(???) easy, so the required effort to play with it is minimal.)
(???) hat text do you have indexed? I'd rather not have Veronica talking to
(???) nything but its own internal data sources (nothing personal, I'm just
(PNG) aranoid like that), but I'd love to see another search solution on the
(SND) cene.
(???) -
(???) ----------------------------------- personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
(???) Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser@floodgap.com
(???) - This message will self-destruct in five seconds. Good luck, Jim. -- M:I ----
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Mon Aug 04 06:51:57 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
(???) elivery-date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 06:51:57 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Sun, 03 Aug 2008 23:49:48 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from floodgap.com ([66.159.214.137] ident=elvis)
(???) eceived: (from spectre@localhost)
(???) rom: Cameron Kaiser <spectre@floodgap.com>
(???) essage-Id: <200808040449.m744nixd028474@floodgap.com>
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <87bq0ahve4.fsf@deschutes.local.lan> from "Nuno J. Silva" at "Aug 3, 8 06:16:03 pm"
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) ate: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 21:49:43 -0700 (PDT)
(???) -Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)]
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(???) ontent-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sun, 03 Aug 2008 23:49:48 -0500
(???) -archive-position: 2317
(???) -ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: spectre@floodgap.com
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sun, 03 Aug 2008 23:49:58 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Item Type Suggestions
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 45
(???) Gopher+ or mime-at-the-end-of-the-menu-entry have both the same problem,
(???) when you have an url, it's not possible to say what's the document type.
(???) nd that's why I think this is ultimately doomed to fail. Part of what
(???) akes the itemtype so useful is because the behaviour for any given URL is
(???) otally known in advance. This makes client support a snap. So, short of
(???) way to embed either an extended itemtype or a MIME type in the URL, this
s probably going to wind up an academic exercise.
(???) /r/t an earlier post I made, I did play around with various Overbite
nternal URL schemes for menus like this, but none were particularly
(SND) atisfactory and having overbite:// URLs actually just fractionates the
(???) ser community by having a non-interoperable URL format.
(???) -
(???) ----------------------------------- personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
(???) Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser@floodgap.com
(???) - Remember, Windows is not a virus. Viruses actually do something. -----------
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Mon Aug 04 06:52:09 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 06:52:09 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Sun, 03 Aug 2008 23:49:48 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from floodgap.com ([66.159.214.137] ident=elvis)
(???) eceived: (from spectre@localhost)
(???) rom: Cameron Kaiser <spectre@floodgap.com>
(???) essage-Id: <200808040449.m744nixd028474@floodgap.com>
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <87bq0ahve4.fsf@deschutes.local.lan> from "Nuno J. Silva" at "Aug 3, 8 06:16:03 pm"
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) ate: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 21:49:43 -0700 (PDT)
(???) -Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)]
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(???) ontent-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sun, 03 Aug 2008 23:49:48 -0500
(???) -archive-position: 2317
(???) -ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: spectre@floodgap.com
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sun, 03 Aug 2008 23:49:58 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Item Type Suggestions
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 46
(???) Gopher+ or mime-at-the-end-of-the-menu-entry have both the same problem,
(???) when you have an url, it's not possible to say what's the document type.
(???) nd that's why I think this is ultimately doomed to fail. Part of what
(???) akes the itemtype so useful is because the behaviour for any given URL is
(???) otally known in advance. This makes client support a snap. So, short of
(???) way to embed either an extended itemtype or a MIME type in the URL, this
s probably going to wind up an academic exercise.
(???) /r/t an earlier post I made, I did play around with various Overbite
nternal URL schemes for menus like this, but none were particularly
(SND) atisfactory and having overbite:// URLs actually just fractionates the
(???) ser community by having a non-interoperable URL format.
(???) -
(???) ----------------------------------- personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
(???) Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser@floodgap.com
(???) - Remember, Windows is not a virus. Viruses actually do something. -----------
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Mon Aug 04 07:10:14 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
(???) elivery-date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 07:10:14 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Mon, 04 Aug 2008 00:08:11 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from floodgap.com ([66.159.214.137] ident=elvis)
(???) eceived: (from spectre@localhost)
(???) rom: Cameron Kaiser <spectre@floodgap.com>
(???) essage-Id: <200808040508.m74587nM011522@floodgap.com>
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <4895075D.9060202@sinedev.org> from Kyevan at "Aug 2, 8 08:18:21 pm"
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) ate: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 22:08:06 -0700 (PDT)
(???) -Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)]
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(???) ontent-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Mon, 04 Aug 2008 00:08:11 -0500
(???) -archive-position: 2318
(???) -ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: spectre@floodgap.com
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Mon, 04 Aug 2008 00:08:20 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Item Type Suggestions
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 47
(???) What about the whole world of text-based formats? (text/*)?
(???)
(???) I think it might make most sense to put text/* under 1, application/*
(???) under 9, image/* under I, and audio/* under s.
(???) ...]
(???) video/* and model/* could be either shoved under 9, or we could define
(???) ctually, video, for no good reason, has a history of being under ;
(???) semicolon). Don't ask me why; this is what I saw used back in the day, so
t has historical weight behind it.
(???) item types for them. Having item types that parallel the base Internet
(???) media types seems like it would make sense and would ease conversion...
(???) but would possibly break compatibility with older clients. Actually, I
(???) and s have that problem too, though they're wide-spread enough to be
(???) mentioned on Wikipedia (which, admittedly, could just be one editor
(???) using them...)
(???) o, these have pretty good historical weight also. Still, although I
(???) oncede they are nice for user conceptualization, these sorts of gestalt
(???) ypes make me tear my hair out as a client author since they're not
(DOC) eterministic.
(IMG) 'm considering a facultative mode for Overbite where if it sees a MIME
(???) ype embedded in a Gopher URL, it will honour it and strip it out, and
(???) se that to override the item type. I have not yet determined if I'm going
(???) o implement that, but it would be nice for convenience. This would be
ndependent of what the server does so that people could force a MIME type
(???) n a particular URL and make Overbite "do what I want."
(???) Add fallback types to the hypothetical pie-in-the-sky Gopher Perfect
(???) that will be specified around the same time as all that vaporware we've
(???) been 'promised' over the years comes out, I guess. :P
(???)
(???) Additionaly, might we want to use something like
(???) application/[X-]gopher-menu as a type for 0? I mean, it seems like it
(???) o you mean type 1? I think something like application/gopher-menu (no x-)
s already in use for that. Overbite uses its own pathological string but
(???) hat's mostly to override Mozilla's internal support.
(???) -
(???) ----------------------------------- personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
(???) Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser@floodgap.com
(???) - lp0 reported invalid error status (on fire, eh?) -- Linux 1.1.62 -----------
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Mon Aug 04 07:10:29 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 07:10:29 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Mon, 04 Aug 2008 00:08:11 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from floodgap.com ([66.159.214.137] ident=elvis)
(???) eceived: (from spectre@localhost)
(???) rom: Cameron Kaiser <spectre@floodgap.com>
(???) essage-Id: <200808040508.m74587nM011522@floodgap.com>
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <4895075D.9060202@sinedev.org> from Kyevan at "Aug 2, 8 08:18:21 pm"
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) ate: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 22:08:06 -0700 (PDT)
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(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Mon, 04 Aug 2008 00:08:20 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Item Type Suggestions
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 48
(???) What about the whole world of text-based formats? (text/*)?
(???)
(???) I think it might make most sense to put text/* under 1, application/*
(???) under 9, image/* under I, and audio/* under s.
(???) ...]
(???) video/* and model/* could be either shoved under 9, or we could define
(???) ctually, video, for no good reason, has a history of being under ;
(???) semicolon). Don't ask me why; this is what I saw used back in the day, so
t has historical weight behind it.
(???) item types for them. Having item types that parallel the base Internet
(???) media types seems like it would make sense and would ease conversion...
(???) but would possibly break compatibility with older clients. Actually, I
(???) and s have that problem too, though they're wide-spread enough to be
(???) mentioned on Wikipedia (which, admittedly, could just be one editor
(???) using them...)
(???) o, these have pretty good historical weight also. Still, although I
(???) oncede they are nice for user conceptualization, these sorts of gestalt
(???) ypes make me tear my hair out as a client author since they're not
(DOC) eterministic.
(IMG) 'm considering a facultative mode for Overbite where if it sees a MIME
(???) ype embedded in a Gopher URL, it will honour it and strip it out, and
(???) se that to override the item type. I have not yet determined if I'm going
(???) o implement that, but it would be nice for convenience. This would be
ndependent of what the server does so that people could force a MIME type
(???) n a particular URL and make Overbite "do what I want."
(???) Add fallback types to the hypothetical pie-in-the-sky Gopher Perfect
(???) that will be specified around the same time as all that vaporware we've
(???) been 'promised' over the years comes out, I guess. :P
(???)
(???) Additionaly, might we want to use something like
(???) application/[X-]gopher-menu as a type for 0? I mean, it seems like it
(???) o you mean type 1? I think something like application/gopher-menu (no x-)
s already in use for that. Overbite uses its own pathological string but
(???) hat's mostly to override Mozilla's internal support.
(???) -
(???) ----------------------------------- personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
(???) Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser@floodgap.com
(???) - lp0 reported invalid error status (on fire, eh?) -- Linux 1.1.62 -----------
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Mon Aug 04 10:18:33 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 10:18:33 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Mon, 04 Aug 2008 03:12:57 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from morecp.net
(???) eceived: by port70.net (Postfix, from userid 1000)
(???) ate: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 10:12:51 +0200
(???) rom: Mate Nagy <k-zed@hactar.net>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) essage-ID: <20080804081251.GA14635@port70.net>
(???) eferences: <20080803192343.GA10376@port70.net> <200808040445.m744j3xP012528@floodgap.com>
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
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(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Mon, 04 Aug 2008 03:12:57 -0500
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
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(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: k-zed@hactar.net
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Mon, 04 Aug 2008 03:13:07 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Item Type Suggestions
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 49
(???) n Sun, Aug 03, 2008 at 09:45:03PM -0700, Cameron Kaiser wrote:
(???) What text do you have indexed? I'd rather not have Veronica talking to
(???) anything but its own internal data sources (nothing personal, I'm just
(???) paranoid like that), but I'd love to see another search solution on the
(???) scene.
(???) HyperEstraier isn't an internet service, it's a program you can install
(???) nd use. Runs completely locally, sends no info to other parties etc
(???) tc. "Talking to it" would probably consist of using its command line
nterface, or perhaps the API that the builtin HTTP crawler uses (it
(???) ight be necessary to look into the source code of that).
(???) It has it's own database format (stores in a directory structure on
(???) our HD) - it's much faster than the SQL-based engines I tried. Creating
(???) he database, indexing, and searching can be all done thru the CLI
(???) it can yield search results in XML (which I transform and display in a
(GIF) opher menu), or other various formats).
(???) I mentioned Veronica because I imagine it might be quite easy to give a
(SND) eries of gopher URLs and their content to "estcmd" somehow, and bam,
(???) ou have a full textgopher search engine.. (It might not be quite this
(???) rivial, but I'm sure it won't be impossible either.)
(???) The text is my private e-text collection :)
(???) (I run the search engine on my server, which has an AMD athlon 64 X2
(HEX) 000+ with 4 gigs of RAM and SATA II disks; Debian lenny, hyperestraier
(DIR) .4.9-1.4; indexing 16 gigs of text was finished I believe within 6
(HTM) ours; the created index database takes 11 gigs of space.)
(???) egards,
(???) Mate
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Mon Aug 04 10:18:19 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
(???) elivery-date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 10:18:19 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Mon, 04 Aug 2008 03:12:57 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from morecp.net
(???) eceived: by port70.net (Postfix, from userid 1000)
(???) ate: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 10:12:51 +0200
(???) rom: Mate Nagy <k-zed@hactar.net>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) essage-ID: <20080804081251.GA14635@port70.net>
(???) eferences: <20080803192343.GA10376@port70.net> <200808040445.m744j3xP012528@floodgap.com>
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
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(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
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(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: k-zed@hactar.net
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Mon, 04 Aug 2008 03:13:07 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Item Type Suggestions
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 50
(???) n Sun, Aug 03, 2008 at 09:45:03PM -0700, Cameron Kaiser wrote:
(???) What text do you have indexed? I'd rather not have Veronica talking to
(???) anything but its own internal data sources (nothing personal, I'm just
(???) paranoid like that), but I'd love to see another search solution on the
(???) scene.
(???) HyperEstraier isn't an internet service, it's a program you can install
(???) nd use. Runs completely locally, sends no info to other parties etc
(???) tc. "Talking to it" would probably consist of using its command line
nterface, or perhaps the API that the builtin HTTP crawler uses (it
(???) ight be necessary to look into the source code of that).
(???) It has it's own database format (stores in a directory structure on
(???) our HD) - it's much faster than the SQL-based engines I tried. Creating
(???) he database, indexing, and searching can be all done thru the CLI
(???) it can yield search results in XML (which I transform and display in a
(GIF) opher menu), or other various formats).
(???) I mentioned Veronica because I imagine it might be quite easy to give a
(SND) eries of gopher URLs and their content to "estcmd" somehow, and bam,
(???) ou have a full textgopher search engine.. (It might not be quite this
(???) rivial, but I'm sure it won't be impossible either.)
(???) The text is my private e-text collection :)
(???) (I run the search engine on my server, which has an AMD athlon 64 X2
(HEX) 000+ with 4 gigs of RAM and SATA II disks; Debian lenny, hyperestraier
(DIR) .4.9-1.4; indexing 16 gigs of text was finished I believe within 6
(HTM) ours; the created index database takes 11 gigs of space.)
(???) egards,
(???) Mate
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Mon Aug 04 18:04:27 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level: *
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=1.9 required=5.0 tests=AWL,RCVD_NUMERIC_HELO,
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
(???) elivery-date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 18:04:27 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Mon, 04 Aug 2008 10:59:06 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from main.gmane.org ([80.91.229.2] helo=ciao.gmane.org)
(???) eceived: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43)
(???) eceived: from 81.193.57.33 ([81.193.57.33])
(???) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian))
(???) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00
(???) for <gopher@complete.org>; Mon, 04 Aug 2008 15:58:51 +0000
(???) eceived: from nunojsilva by 81.193.57.33 with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian))
(???) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00
(???) for <gopher@complete.org>; Mon, 04 Aug 2008 15:58:51 +0000
(???) -Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) rom: nunojsilva@ist.utl.pt (Nuno J. Silva)
(???) ate: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 16:58:26 +0100
(???) ines: 76
(???) essage-ID: <874p60rcv1.fsf@deschutes.local.lan>
(???) eferences: <87bq0ahve4.fsf@deschutes.local.lan> <200808040449.m744nixd028474@floodgap.com>
(???) ime-Version: 1.0
(???) ontent-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
(???) -Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org
(???) -Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 81.193.57.33
(???) ser-Agent: Gnus/5.1008 (Gnus v5.10.8) Emacs/22.2 (gnu/linux)
(???) ancel-Lock: sha1:s7TaoSV79ueXL+GhJvgWM+KeQN0=
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Mon, 04 Aug 2008 10:59:06 -0500
(???) -archive-position: 2320
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(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: nunojsilva@ist.utl.pt
(???) recedence: bulk
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(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Mon, 04 Aug 2008 10:59:16 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Item Type Suggestions
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 51
(???) ameron Kaiser <spectre@floodgap.com> writes:
(???) > Gopher+ or mime-at-the-end-of-the-menu-entry have both the same problem,
(???) > when you have an url, it's not possible to say what's the document type.
(???)
(???) And that's why I think this is ultimately doomed to fail. Part of what
(???) makes the itemtype so useful is because the behaviour for any given URL is
(???) totally known in advance. This makes client support a snap. So, short of
(???) a way to embed either an extended itemtype or a MIME type in the URL, this
(???) is probably going to wind up an academic exercise.
(???)
(???) W/r/t an earlier post I made, I did play around with various Overbite
(???) internal URL schemes for menus like this, but none were particularly
(???) satisfactory and having overbite:// URLs actually just fractionates the
(???) user community by having a non-interoperable URL format.
(???) e already have an URL scheme which supports mime (the gopher+ views),
(???) ut that does not work with old clients:
(???) uoting rfc1738:
(???) A Gopher URL takes the form:
(???)
(???) gopher://<host>:<port>/<gopher-path>
(???)
(???) where <gopher-path> is one of
(???)
(???) <gophertype><selector>
(???) <gophertype><selector>%09<search>
(???) <gophertype><selector>%09<search>%09<gopher+_string>
(???) n url for a jpeg image made available as gophertype 9 with gopher+
(???) ould be (e.g., if the language is set as En_Us):
(GIF) opher://server/9blablabla%09%09+image/jpeg%20En_Us
(???) ut this needs some magic to work - the client has to remove the extra
(???) ab, as there's no search string, because the server does not expect the
(SND) earch field to be sent when it is empty.
(???) sing gopher://server/9blablabla%09+image/jpeg%20En_Us works with lynx,
(???) s it sends everything that's after the gophertype character and the end
(???) f the URL.
(???) CSA Mosaic works too (you need to encode + as %2B).
(???) n the other hand, conkeror and firefox (gecko engine) refuse to
(???) etrieve the page, conkeror says nothing, and firefox raises an alert
(???) essagebox saying it's an invalid URL, if I feed them a (non-rfc)
(GIF) opher+ URL.
(???) irefox with floodgap will work, but only if + is not encoded as %2B.
(???) ow I just need to test this in some gopher+ clients...
(IMG) f no issue is discovered, we could consider extending the standard to
(???) llow (or better, enforce)
(???) gopher-path> = <gophertype><selector>%09<gopher+_string>
(???) hen the search string is empty.
(???) -
(???) uno J. Silva (aka njsg)
(???) EIC student at Instituto Superior Técnico
(???) isbon, Portugal
(???) omepage: http://njsg.no.sapo.pt/
(???) opherspace: gopher://sdf-eu.org/11/users/njsg
(???) egistered Linux User #402207 - http://counter.li.org
(???) =-=-
(???) `Research is what I'm doing, when I don't know what I'm doing.''
(???) -- von Braun
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Mon Aug 04 18:05:27 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level: **
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=2.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,RCVD_NUMERIC_HELO,
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 18:05:27 +0200
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(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) rom: nunojsilva@ist.utl.pt (Nuno J. Silva)
(???) ate: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 16:58:26 +0100
(???) ines: 76
(???) essage-ID: <874p60rcv1.fsf@deschutes.local.lan>
(???) eferences: <87bq0ahve4.fsf@deschutes.local.lan> <200808040449.m744nixd028474@floodgap.com>
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(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Item Type Suggestions
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 52
(???) ameron Kaiser <spectre@floodgap.com> writes:
(???) > Gopher+ or mime-at-the-end-of-the-menu-entry have both the same problem,
(???) > when you have an url, it's not possible to say what's the document type.
(???)
(???) And that's why I think this is ultimately doomed to fail. Part of what
(???) makes the itemtype so useful is because the behaviour for any given URL is
(???) totally known in advance. This makes client support a snap. So, short of
(???) a way to embed either an extended itemtype or a MIME type in the URL, this
(???) is probably going to wind up an academic exercise.
(???)
(???) W/r/t an earlier post I made, I did play around with various Overbite
(???) internal URL schemes for menus like this, but none were particularly
(???) satisfactory and having overbite:// URLs actually just fractionates the
(???) user community by having a non-interoperable URL format.
(???) e already have an URL scheme which supports mime (the gopher+ views),
(???) ut that does not work with old clients:
(???) uoting rfc1738:
(???) A Gopher URL takes the form:
(???)
(???) gopher://<host>:<port>/<gopher-path>
(???)
(???) where <gopher-path> is one of
(???)
(???) <gophertype><selector>
(???) <gophertype><selector>%09<search>
(???) <gophertype><selector>%09<search>%09<gopher+_string>
(???) n url for a jpeg image made available as gophertype 9 with gopher+
(???) ould be (e.g., if the language is set as En_Us):
(GIF) opher://server/9blablabla%09%09+image/jpeg%20En_Us
(???) ut this needs some magic to work - the client has to remove the extra
(???) ab, as there's no search string, because the server does not expect the
(SND) earch field to be sent when it is empty.
(???) sing gopher://server/9blablabla%09+image/jpeg%20En_Us works with lynx,
(???) s it sends everything that's after the gophertype character and the end
(???) f the URL.
(???) CSA Mosaic works too (you need to encode + as %2B).
(???) n the other hand, conkeror and firefox (gecko engine) refuse to
(???) etrieve the page, conkeror says nothing, and firefox raises an alert
(???) essagebox saying it's an invalid URL, if I feed them a (non-rfc)
(GIF) opher+ URL.
(???) irefox with floodgap will work, but only if + is not encoded as %2B.
(???) ow I just need to test this in some gopher+ clients...
(IMG) f no issue is discovered, we could consider extending the standard to
(???) llow (or better, enforce)
(???) gopher-path> = <gophertype><selector>%09<gopher+_string>
(???) hen the search string is empty.
(???) -
(???) uno J. Silva (aka njsg)
(???) EIC student at Instituto Superior Técnico
(???) isbon, Portugal
(???) omepage: http://njsg.no.sapo.pt/
(???) opherspace: gopher://sdf-eu.org/11/users/njsg
(???) egistered Linux User #402207 - http://counter.li.org
(???) =-=-
(???) `Research is what I'm doing, when I don't know what I'm doing.''
(???) -- von Braun
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Mon Aug 04 18:31:57 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
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(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
(???) elivery-date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 18:31:57 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
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(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Mon, 04 Aug 2008 11:24:55 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from lofn.hardison.net ([69.56.173.41])
(???) eceived: from [192.168.2.101] (pool-71-98-23-75.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net [71.98.23.75])
(???) essage-ID: <48972C0E.2000604@sinedev.org>
(???) ate: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 11:19:26 -0500
(???) rom: Kyevan <kyevan@sinedev.org>
(???) ser-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.16 (Windows/20080708)
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) eferences: <200808040431.m744VMeF023196@floodgap.com>
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(???) -original-sender: kyevan@sinedev.org
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(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
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(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Gopherness
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 53
(???) hat about older clients, though? Modern clients will probably handle
(???) TF-8 at least well enough to not explode, but older clients might not.
(???) enerally, it seems safest to stick to the subset that is ASCII when
(???) easonable, only using UTF-8 or such when it's actually needed. ... is a
(PNG) erfectly readable replacement for U+2026, even if it's not
(???) typographically correct." On the other hand, if you're trying to post a
(???) ext in, say, a mix of Arabic, and Klingon, go right ahead and use UTF-8.
(???) ameron Kaiser wrote:
(???) I can see where it might be troublesome for filenames and selectors to be
(???) UTF-8, although that would be a local filesystem and/or server issue.
(???)
(???) However, there's nothing really preventing the use of UTF-8 in Gopher,
(???) and in fact I am personally aware of several sites that use it. Overbite
(???) does support it and the most current version has a bug with encoding smoked
(???) out which should make it nearly perfect. I was testing it on both a Big5
(???) encoded Chinese gopher site and another UTF-8 encoded menu, and it renders
(???) correctly.
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Mon Aug 04 18:32:13 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
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(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 18:32:13 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Mon, 04 Aug 2008 11:24:55 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from lofn.hardison.net ([69.56.173.41])
(???) eceived: from [192.168.2.101] (pool-71-98-23-75.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net [71.98.23.75])
(???) essage-ID: <48972C0E.2000604@sinedev.org>
(???) ate: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 11:19:26 -0500
(???) rom: Kyevan <kyevan@sinedev.org>
(???) ser-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.16 (Windows/20080708)
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) eferences: <200808040431.m744VMeF023196@floodgap.com>
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(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
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(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
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(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Gopherness
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 54
(???) hat about older clients, though? Modern clients will probably handle
(???) TF-8 at least well enough to not explode, but older clients might not.
(???) enerally, it seems safest to stick to the subset that is ASCII when
(???) easonable, only using UTF-8 or such when it's actually needed. ... is a
(PNG) erfectly readable replacement for U+2026, even if it's not
(???) typographically correct." On the other hand, if you're trying to post a
(???) ext in, say, a mix of Arabic, and Klingon, go right ahead and use UTF-8.
(???) ameron Kaiser wrote:
(???) I can see where it might be troublesome for filenames and selectors to be
(???) UTF-8, although that would be a local filesystem and/or server issue.
(???)
(???) However, there's nothing really preventing the use of UTF-8 in Gopher,
(???) and in fact I am personally aware of several sites that use it. Overbite
(???) does support it and the most current version has a bug with encoding smoked
(???) out which should make it nearly perfect. I was testing it on both a Big5
(???) encoded Chinese gopher site and another UTF-8 encoded menu, and it renders
(???) correctly.
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Mon Aug 04 19:13:34 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
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(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=0.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
(???) elivery-date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 19:13:34 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Mon, 04 Aug 2008 12:05:37 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from nf-out-0910.google.com ([64.233.182.188])
(???) eceived: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id b2so703872nfb.12
(???) for <gopher@complete.org>; Mon, 04 Aug 2008 10:05:31 -0700 (PDT)
(???) eceived: by 10.210.115.15 with SMTP id n15mr17174759ebc.81.1217869531589;
(???) Mon, 04 Aug 2008 10:05:31 -0700 (PDT)
(???) eceived: by 10.210.104.19 with HTTP; Mon, 4 Aug 2008 10:05:31 -0700 (PDT)
(???) essage-ID: <e78c27470808041005h3db3b248p930ad3459b3dad7@mail.gmail.com>
(???) ate: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 11:05:31 -0600
(???) rom: "Jay Nemrow" <jnemrow@quix.us>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <48972C0E.2000604@sinedev.org>
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(???) eferences: <200808040431.m744VMeF023196@floodgap.com>
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(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
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(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
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(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Gopherness
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 55
(IMG) would also be a bit concerned about backward-compatibility (as I
(???) lways am). When we talk about changes like this, I suggest we call
(???) he protocol created with modern changes something besides just
(???) Gopher". Perhaps Goph08 or something like that. Then you could say,
(???) hey, I run a Goph08 server" or "my client is both Gopher and Goph08
(???) ompatible."
(???) f course, I am thinking that the "Intelligence in the server" could
(???) e used to allow for interesting "magic strings" to be sent to it from
(???) oph08 clients: "\fud\pug.jpg$G08" or something like that, indicating
(???) hat the client would like Goph08-type responses (in different
(???) ncodings for different languages). There is no standard way,
(HTM) owever, for older servers to deal with a Goph08 magic string except
(???) o fail on it and then the Goph08 client would need to fall back to
(???) opher0 magic strings - messy (since Gopher really doesn't include a
(SND) tandard error indication - it will return a text that says things
(DOC) idn't work out) but doable.
(IMG) f we do a version of Gopher which is basically new (adding UTF-8 or
(???) IME or whatever), I think we should ask for and get a new port
(???) ssignment for it. If you wanted Goph08, send the request through a
(???) oph08 port number. Gopher request continue to go through port 70.
(???) ust have your server listen on two ports instead of one, using the
(???) ld idea that if you are using a different protocol (essentially), you
(SND) hould use a different port. (Crazy idea, I know.) I guess this gets
(???) ack to an old point, which is that a modern version of Gopher is
(???) ssentially a new protocol and should be treated as such. If you guys
(???) ant to change Gopher to "improve" it, it ceases to be Gopher.
(???) Updated" nostalgia is not nostalgia at all.
(???) ay
(???) n Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 10:19 AM, Kyevan <kyevan@sinedev.org> wrote:
(???) What about older clients, though? Modern clients will probably handle
(???) UTF-8 at least well enough to not explode, but older clients might not.
(???) Generally, it seems safest to stick to the subset that is ASCII when
(???) reasonable, only using UTF-8 or such when it's actually needed. ... is a
(???) perfectly readable replacement for U+2026, even if it's not
(???) "typographically correct." On the other hand, if you're trying to post a
(???) text in, say, a mix of Arabic, and Klingon, go right ahead and use UTF-8.
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Mon Aug 04 19:13:53 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
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(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=0.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 19:13:53 +0200
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(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Mon, 04 Aug 2008 12:05:37 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from nf-out-0910.google.com ([64.233.182.188])
(???) eceived: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id b2so703872nfb.12
(???) for <gopher@complete.org>; Mon, 04 Aug 2008 10:05:31 -0700 (PDT)
(???) eceived: by 10.210.115.15 with SMTP id n15mr17174759ebc.81.1217869531589;
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(???) ate: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 11:05:31 -0600
(???) rom: "Jay Nemrow" <jnemrow@quix.us>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <48972C0E.2000604@sinedev.org>
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(???) eferences: <200808040431.m744VMeF023196@floodgap.com>
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(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
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(???) -list: gopher
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(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
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(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Gopherness
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
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(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 56
(IMG) would also be a bit concerned about backward-compatibility (as I
(???) lways am). When we talk about changes like this, I suggest we call
(???) he protocol created with modern changes something besides just
(???) Gopher". Perhaps Goph08 or something like that. Then you could say,
(???) hey, I run a Goph08 server" or "my client is both Gopher and Goph08
(???) ompatible."
(???) f course, I am thinking that the "Intelligence in the server" could
(???) e used to allow for interesting "magic strings" to be sent to it from
(???) oph08 clients: "\fud\pug.jpg$G08" or something like that, indicating
(???) hat the client would like Goph08-type responses (in different
(???) ncodings for different languages). There is no standard way,
(HTM) owever, for older servers to deal with a Goph08 magic string except
(???) o fail on it and then the Goph08 client would need to fall back to
(???) opher0 magic strings - messy (since Gopher really doesn't include a
(SND) tandard error indication - it will return a text that says things
(DOC) idn't work out) but doable.
(IMG) f we do a version of Gopher which is basically new (adding UTF-8 or
(???) IME or whatever), I think we should ask for and get a new port
(???) ssignment for it. If you wanted Goph08, send the request through a
(???) oph08 port number. Gopher request continue to go through port 70.
(???) ust have your server listen on two ports instead of one, using the
(???) ld idea that if you are using a different protocol (essentially), you
(SND) hould use a different port. (Crazy idea, I know.) I guess this gets
(???) ack to an old point, which is that a modern version of Gopher is
(???) ssentially a new protocol and should be treated as such. If you guys
(???) ant to change Gopher to "improve" it, it ceases to be Gopher.
(???) Updated" nostalgia is not nostalgia at all.
(???) ay
(???) n Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 10:19 AM, Kyevan <kyevan@sinedev.org> wrote:
(???) What about older clients, though? Modern clients will probably handle
(???) UTF-8 at least well enough to not explode, but older clients might not.
(???) Generally, it seems safest to stick to the subset that is ASCII when
(???) reasonable, only using UTF-8 or such when it's actually needed. ... is a
(???) perfectly readable replacement for U+2026, even if it's not
(???) "typographically correct." On the other hand, if you're trying to post a
(???) text in, say, a mix of Arabic, and Klingon, go right ahead and use UTF-8.
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Mon Aug 04 19:15:55 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
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(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
(???) elivery-date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 19:15:55 +0200
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(???) for <gopher@complete.org>; Mon, 04 Aug 2008 10:08:49 -0700 (PDT)
(???) KIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
(???) d=gmail.com; s=gamma;
(???) h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to
(???) :subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type
(???) :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references;
(???) bh=EpEsIDHTdSysRFazr2hNvo+xQlYSh5we4iYv+EwsKxg=;
(???) b=wDTCfgRoTmIzpTH/OViPLPN5ljjNxGKT423OFUBaTpT9P5/+7xWvrmh4XuR9lYDhwF
(???) q0w/oUTWW4qRhmuJU5mTGf8ZPii+1Ke1ZF1LXERZUhAgsDvFPya9B7VjJIH4qGKd3iwe
(???) TLMmW75DJpxD6C09t1k28EZbrQrEoh89OPscI=
(???) omainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws;
(???) d=gmail.com; s=gamma;
(???) h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version
(???) :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition
(???) :references;
(???) b=BzMn2AYbj1g27gQFrIsXHIFyCC01yevNbk8rNOsJ9yag7TQuzdebsqFu4udPIeXfQg
(???) MHtj9H9YCqJRyNnxAwIln/Gixm5knJxmxNDhaSp+jwXENjwA55/8ITZwogojoes4zdKc
(???) QJzjQk6+ZwoezVu8jJ+VRvRluobqJbtH5t6mY=
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(???) ate: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 13:08:49 -0400
(???) rom: "Avery M." <averym@gmail.com>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <e78c27470808041005h3db3b248p930ad3459b3dad7@mail.gmail.com>
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
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(???) eferences: <200808040431.m744VMeF023196@floodgap.com>
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(???) -archive-position: 2323
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(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
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(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Gopherness
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 57
(IMG) don't think the Gopher network would benefit from balkanization at
(???) his late stage.
(???) n Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 1:05 PM, Jay Nemrow <jnemrow@quix.us> wrote:
(???) I would also be a bit concerned about backward-compatibility (as I
(???) always am). When we talk about changes like this, I suggest we call
(???) the protocol created with modern changes something besides just
(???) "Gopher". Perhaps Goph08 or something like that. Then you could say,
(???) "hey, I run a Goph08 server" or "my client is both Gopher and Goph08
(???) compatible."
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Mon Aug 04 19:16:11 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
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(???) elivery-date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 19:16:11 +0200
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(???) for <gopher@complete.org>; Mon, 04 Aug 2008 10:08:49 -0700 (PDT)
(???) KIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
(???) d=gmail.com; s=gamma;
(???) h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to
(???) :subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type
(???) :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references;
(???) bh=EpEsIDHTdSysRFazr2hNvo+xQlYSh5we4iYv+EwsKxg=;
(???) b=wDTCfgRoTmIzpTH/OViPLPN5ljjNxGKT423OFUBaTpT9P5/+7xWvrmh4XuR9lYDhwF
(???) q0w/oUTWW4qRhmuJU5mTGf8ZPii+1Ke1ZF1LXERZUhAgsDvFPya9B7VjJIH4qGKd3iwe
(???) TLMmW75DJpxD6C09t1k28EZbrQrEoh89OPscI=
(???) omainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws;
(???) d=gmail.com; s=gamma;
(???) h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version
(???) :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition
(???) :references;
(???) b=BzMn2AYbj1g27gQFrIsXHIFyCC01yevNbk8rNOsJ9yag7TQuzdebsqFu4udPIeXfQg
(???) MHtj9H9YCqJRyNnxAwIln/Gixm5knJxmxNDhaSp+jwXENjwA55/8ITZwogojoes4zdKc
(???) QJzjQk6+ZwoezVu8jJ+VRvRluobqJbtH5t6mY=
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(???) ate: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 13:08:49 -0400
(???) rom: "Avery M." <averym@gmail.com>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <e78c27470808041005h3db3b248p930ad3459b3dad7@mail.gmail.com>
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
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(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Gopherness
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
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(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 58
(IMG) don't think the Gopher network would benefit from balkanization at
(???) his late stage.
(???) n Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 1:05 PM, Jay Nemrow <jnemrow@quix.us> wrote:
(???) I would also be a bit concerned about backward-compatibility (as I
(???) always am). When we talk about changes like this, I suggest we call
(???) the protocol created with modern changes something besides just
(???) "Gopher". Perhaps Goph08 or something like that. Then you could say,
(???) "hey, I run a Goph08 server" or "my client is both Gopher and Goph08
(???) compatible."
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Mon Aug 04 20:29:52 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
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(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
(???) elivery-date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 20:29:52 +0200
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(???) eceived: from nf-out-0910.google.com ([64.233.182.185])
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(???) for <gopher@complete.org>; Mon, 04 Aug 2008 10:42:45 -0700 (PDT)
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(???) ate: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 11:42:44 -0600
(???) rom: "Jay Nemrow" <jnemrow@quix.us>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <f7cf70a70808041008ree5d543ja3216e9df288fd79@mail.gmail.com>
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(???) eferences: <200808040431.m744VMeF023196@floodgap.com>
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(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Mon, 04 Aug 2008 13:27:00 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Gopherness
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 59
(???) o, what is your vote, Avery? Break old clients or not?
(???) n Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 11:08 AM, Avery M. <averym@gmail.com> wrote:
(???) I don't think the Gopher network would benefit from balkanization at
(???) this late stage.
(???)
(???) On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 1:05 PM, Jay Nemrow <jnemrow@quix.us> wrote:
(???) > I would also be a bit concerned about backward-compatibility (as I
(???) > always am). When we talk about changes like this, I suggest we call
(???) > the protocol created with modern changes something besides just
(???) > "Gopher". Perhaps Goph08 or something like that. Then you could say,
(???) > "hey, I run a Goph08 server" or "my client is both Gopher and Goph08
(???) > compatible."
(???)
(???)
(???)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Mon Aug 04 20:30:11 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
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(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
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(???) eceived: from nf-out-0910.google.com ([64.233.182.185])
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(???) ate: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 11:42:44 -0600
(???) rom: "Jay Nemrow" <jnemrow@quix.us>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <f7cf70a70808041008ree5d543ja3216e9df288fd79@mail.gmail.com>
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(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Mon, 04 Aug 2008 13:27:00 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Gopherness
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 60
(???) o, what is your vote, Avery? Break old clients or not?
(???) n Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 11:08 AM, Avery M. <averym@gmail.com> wrote:
(???) I don't think the Gopher network would benefit from balkanization at
(???) this late stage.
(???)
(???) On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 1:05 PM, Jay Nemrow <jnemrow@quix.us> wrote:
(???) > I would also be a bit concerned about backward-compatibility (as I
(???) > always am). When we talk about changes like this, I suggest we call
(???) > the protocol created with modern changes something besides just
(???) > "Gopher". Perhaps Goph08 or something like that. Then you could say,
(???) > "hey, I run a Goph08 server" or "my client is both Gopher and Goph08
(???) > compatible."
(???)
(???)
(???)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Mon Aug 04 20:31:29 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
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(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
(???) elivery-date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 20:31:29 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Mon, 04 Aug 2008 13:25:59 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from nf-out-0910.google.com ([64.233.182.188])
(???) eceived: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id b2so709860nfb.12
(???) for <gopher@complete.org>; Mon, 04 Aug 2008 10:36:40 -0700 (PDT)
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(???) ate: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 11:36:39 -0600
(???) rom: "Jay Nemrow" <jnemrow@quix.us>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <4895075D.9060202@sinedev.org>
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(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Mon, 04 Aug 2008 13:25:59 -0500
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(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
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(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Item Type Suggestions
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
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(???) -UID: 61
(TN3) his is getting tiring for me and I really hope it is for other
(PNG) eople. We need to establish our standards soon or we will be getting
(???) he same divergence for eternity.
(IMG) t sounds like we are still wrestling over a very basic idea - do we
(???) are to if we abandon gopher0 and break older clients? Kyevan seems
(???) o be voting to do away with the old stuff and pursue a new course.
(IMG) f we are to move forward, we need to decide if we are honoring
(GIF) opher0 as it stands or not. If we are not going to worry about
(???) ackward-compatibility, why are we even using Gopher as a base? Throw
t out and redesign a new protocol that makes sense given modern
(???) ealities.
(IMG) think I understand why many people would rather just jack-up gopher
nstead of admitting that they are building something new - gopher
(???) lready has a presence (a very weak one) and something new would have
(???) o build a new audience. It is easier to simply hijack the tiny
(GIF) opher audience and make them do upgrades. I am not going there and
(???) nyone else who respects any kind of netiquette should not be going
(???) here either.
(IMG) will head off an accusation now, though I know people will fling it
(???) nyway - I am not against adding new functionality to gopher servers
(???) nd clients! What I am against is essentially breaking gopher
(???) especially older clients) to get this new functionality. Gopher has
(???) ays to add new abilities that don't break old things. We need to
(SND) tick with that if we are interested in gopher at all.
(IMG) n respect of those of us that don't want to break the backward path,
(IMG) say the rest of you should find yourselves a new name, get
(???) ourselves a new port assignment, and leave port 70 and gopher be. I
(???) m getting the impression that a lot of people are just looking to
(???) ake the real estate that is port 70, usurping what little audience it
(HTM) as left, and telling the gopher protocol people to basically get
(???) ost. Here is my response: Find your own protocol port/name and quit
(???) rying to steal gopher's.
(???) n Sat, Aug 2, 2008 at 7:18 PM, Kyevan <kyevan@sinedev.org> wrote:
(???) What about the whole world of text-based formats? (text/*)?
(???)
(???) I think it might make most sense to put text/* under 1, application/*
(???) under 9, image/* under I, and audio/* under s.
(???)
(???) As a practical matter, for the moment, it might be easiest to just
(???) prohibit message/* and multipart/*, since the only use I can see
(???) gopher-wise would be multipart/appledouble, and there it makes more
(???) sense to use binhex and item type 4. example/* and */example are
(???) entirely invalid (outside documentation), of course!
(???)
(???) video/* and model/* could be either shoved under 9, or we could define
(???) item types for them. Having item types that parallel the base Internet
(???) media types seems like it would make sense and would ease conversion...
(???) but would possibly break compatibility with older clients. Actually, I
(???) and s have that problem too, though they're wide-spread enough to be
(???) mentioned on Wikipedia (which, admittedly, could just be one editor
(???) using them...)
(???)
(???) Add fallback types to the hypothetical pie-in-the-sky Gopher Perfect
(???) that will be specified around the same time as all that vaporware we've
(???) been 'promised' over the years comes out, I guess. :P
(???)
(???) Additionaly, might we want to use something like
(???) application/[X-]gopher-menu as a type for 0? I mean, it seems like it
(???) would be nice to have SOMETHING to put in a MIME type-related field for
(???) menus, if for no other reason than to look nicer to humans reading the
(???) menu... and besides, then you could do stupid things like return gopher
(???) menus over http :P
(???)
(???) -- Kyevan
(???)
(???) Jay Nemrow wrote:
(???) > Also, if we are to deal with mime types at all, I am thinking that all
(???) > of them must be put under the 9 item type, no matter what, just to
(???) > keep old clients from breaking. If you put a .doc file under the 0
(???) > menu type, the old client wants to dump that to screen as text and you
(???) > will see gibberish and probably crash things. Everything that doesn't
(???) > fit into the established types will have to be 9 item types, as far as
(???) > I can see.
(???)
(???)
(???)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Mon Aug 04 20:31:41 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=0.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 20:31:41 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Mon, 04 Aug 2008 13:25:59 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from nf-out-0910.google.com ([64.233.182.188])
(???) eceived: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id b2so709860nfb.12
(???) for <gopher@complete.org>; Mon, 04 Aug 2008 10:36:40 -0700 (PDT)
(???) eceived: by 10.210.136.10 with SMTP id j10mr17323191ebd.43.1217871400042;
(???) Mon, 04 Aug 2008 10:36:40 -0700 (PDT)
(???) eceived: by 10.210.104.19 with HTTP; Mon, 4 Aug 2008 10:36:39 -0700 (PDT)
(???) essage-ID: <e78c27470808041036q196359c3gdccc1ddeafb41d1c@mail.gmail.com>
(???) ate: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 11:36:39 -0600
(???) rom: "Jay Nemrow" <jnemrow@quix.us>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <4895075D.9060202@sinedev.org>
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(???) ontent-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
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(???) eferences: <4884d320.1b018e0a.7b70.ffffc3b8@mx.google.com>
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Mon, 04 Aug 2008 13:25:59 -0500
(???) -archive-position: 2324
(???) -ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: jnemrow@quix.us
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Mon, 04 Aug 2008 13:26:50 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Item Type Suggestions
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 62
(TN3) his is getting tiring for me and I really hope it is for other
(PNG) eople. We need to establish our standards soon or we will be getting
(???) he same divergence for eternity.
(IMG) t sounds like we are still wrestling over a very basic idea - do we
(???) are to if we abandon gopher0 and break older clients? Kyevan seems
(???) o be voting to do away with the old stuff and pursue a new course.
(IMG) f we are to move forward, we need to decide if we are honoring
(GIF) opher0 as it stands or not. If we are not going to worry about
(???) ackward-compatibility, why are we even using Gopher as a base? Throw
t out and redesign a new protocol that makes sense given modern
(???) ealities.
(IMG) think I understand why many people would rather just jack-up gopher
nstead of admitting that they are building something new - gopher
(???) lready has a presence (a very weak one) and something new would have
(???) o build a new audience. It is easier to simply hijack the tiny
(GIF) opher audience and make them do upgrades. I am not going there and
(???) nyone else who respects any kind of netiquette should not be going
(???) here either.
(IMG) will head off an accusation now, though I know people will fling it
(???) nyway - I am not against adding new functionality to gopher servers
(???) nd clients! What I am against is essentially breaking gopher
(???) especially older clients) to get this new functionality. Gopher has
(???) ays to add new abilities that don't break old things. We need to
(SND) tick with that if we are interested in gopher at all.
(IMG) n respect of those of us that don't want to break the backward path,
(IMG) say the rest of you should find yourselves a new name, get
(???) ourselves a new port assignment, and leave port 70 and gopher be. I
(???) m getting the impression that a lot of people are just looking to
(???) ake the real estate that is port 70, usurping what little audience it
(HTM) as left, and telling the gopher protocol people to basically get
(???) ost. Here is my response: Find your own protocol port/name and quit
(???) rying to steal gopher's.
(???) n Sat, Aug 2, 2008 at 7:18 PM, Kyevan <kyevan@sinedev.org> wrote:
(???) What about the whole world of text-based formats? (text/*)?
(???)
(???) I think it might make most sense to put text/* under 1, application/*
(???) under 9, image/* under I, and audio/* under s.
(???)
(???) As a practical matter, for the moment, it might be easiest to just
(???) prohibit message/* and multipart/*, since the only use I can see
(???) gopher-wise would be multipart/appledouble, and there it makes more
(???) sense to use binhex and item type 4. example/* and */example are
(???) entirely invalid (outside documentation), of course!
(???)
(???) video/* and model/* could be either shoved under 9, or we could define
(???) item types for them. Having item types that parallel the base Internet
(???) media types seems like it would make sense and would ease conversion...
(???) but would possibly break compatibility with older clients. Actually, I
(???) and s have that problem too, though they're wide-spread enough to be
(???) mentioned on Wikipedia (which, admittedly, could just be one editor
(???) using them...)
(???)
(???) Add fallback types to the hypothetical pie-in-the-sky Gopher Perfect
(???) that will be specified around the same time as all that vaporware we've
(???) been 'promised' over the years comes out, I guess. :P
(???)
(???) Additionaly, might we want to use something like
(???) application/[X-]gopher-menu as a type for 0? I mean, it seems like it
(???) would be nice to have SOMETHING to put in a MIME type-related field for
(???) menus, if for no other reason than to look nicer to humans reading the
(???) menu... and besides, then you could do stupid things like return gopher
(???) menus over http :P
(???)
(???) -- Kyevan
(???)
(???) Jay Nemrow wrote:
(???) > Also, if we are to deal with mime types at all, I am thinking that all
(???) > of them must be put under the 9 item type, no matter what, just to
(???) > keep old clients from breaking. If you put a .doc file under the 0
(???) > menu type, the old client wants to dump that to screen as text and you
(???) > will see gibberish and probably crash things. Everything that doesn't
(???) > fit into the established types will have to be 9 item types, as far as
(???) > I can see.
(???)
(???)
(???)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Mon Aug 04 20:32:01 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
(???) elivery-date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 20:32:01 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Mon, 04 Aug 2008 13:29:55 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from lofn.hardison.net ([69.56.173.41])
(???) eceived: from [192.168.2.101] (pool-71-98-23-75.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net [71.98.23.75])
(???) essage-ID: <48974272.8080804@sinedev.org>
(???) ate: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 12:54:58 -0500
(???) rom: Kyevan <kyevan@sinedev.org>
(???) ser-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.16 (Windows/20080708)
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) eferences: <200808040431.m744VMeF023196@floodgap.com>
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <e78c27470808041005h3db3b248p930ad3459b3dad7@mail.gmail.com>
(???) ontent-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Mon, 04 Aug 2008 13:29:55 -0500
(???) -archive-position: 2326
(???) -ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: kyevan@sinedev.org
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Mon, 04 Aug 2008 13:30:05 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Gopherness
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 63
(???) ay Nemrow wrote:
(???) "Updated" nostalgia is not nostalgia at all.
(???) ure, but an improved Gopher could have practical uses. I think,
(PNG) erhaps, it might be a better idea to start from nearly scratch and
(???) reate a new protocol that takes the best ideas from Gopher (the
(SND) implicity of the client! the structured layout!) and add and modifies
(???) eatures that we feel would be useful (Replace the limited item type
(SND) ystem with something based on MIME types (which has the useful fallback
(???) f "display unknown text/* types as text, everything else unknown should
(???) e treated as application/octet-stream"), sending some metadata in the
(???) esponse, perhaps define a way to send requests with data).
(TN3) his is different than extending Gopher in that we DON'T worry about
(???) ackwards compatibility - at least, not on the protocol level. Servers
(???) hat speak both Gopher and Comepher (or another bad pun, since those
(SND) eem to be inevitable) would be a Good Thing.
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Mon Aug 04 20:32:20 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 20:32:20 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Mon, 04 Aug 2008 13:29:55 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from lofn.hardison.net ([69.56.173.41])
(???) eceived: from [192.168.2.101] (pool-71-98-23-75.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net [71.98.23.75])
(???) essage-ID: <48974272.8080804@sinedev.org>
(???) ate: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 12:54:58 -0500
(???) rom: Kyevan <kyevan@sinedev.org>
(???) ser-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.16 (Windows/20080708)
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) eferences: <200808040431.m744VMeF023196@floodgap.com>
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <e78c27470808041005h3db3b248p930ad3459b3dad7@mail.gmail.com>
(???) ontent-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Mon, 04 Aug 2008 13:29:55 -0500
(???) -archive-position: 2326
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(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: kyevan@sinedev.org
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Mon, 04 Aug 2008 13:30:05 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Gopherness
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 64
(???) ay Nemrow wrote:
(???) "Updated" nostalgia is not nostalgia at all.
(???) ure, but an improved Gopher could have practical uses. I think,
(PNG) erhaps, it might be a better idea to start from nearly scratch and
(???) reate a new protocol that takes the best ideas from Gopher (the
(SND) implicity of the client! the structured layout!) and add and modifies
(???) eatures that we feel would be useful (Replace the limited item type
(SND) ystem with something based on MIME types (which has the useful fallback
(???) f "display unknown text/* types as text, everything else unknown should
(???) e treated as application/octet-stream"), sending some metadata in the
(???) esponse, perhaps define a way to send requests with data).
(TN3) his is different than extending Gopher in that we DON'T worry about
(???) ackwards compatibility - at least, not on the protocol level. Servers
(???) hat speak both Gopher and Comepher (or another bad pun, since those
(SND) eem to be inevitable) would be a Good Thing.
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Mon Aug 04 20:37:23 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
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(???) h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to
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(???) bh=XKIFOy5LFId42Gx7oHQcObV94m6kTLmPPb1r9Eh4Ypk=;
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(???) :references;
(???) b=u5F+u24uAHjtxi9m6By20GrPYLGY2MFotUG/9zpBchLUikir+1RykkatuvzlJIwT0Z
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(???) ate: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 14:33:44 -0400
(???) rom: "Avery M." <averym@gmail.com>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <e78c27470808041042i73a5caaapa4c3b605510158ef@mail.gmail.com>
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(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
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(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Gopherness
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
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(???) -UID: 65
(IMG) think people who want to discuss this should start their own list.
(???) n Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 1:42 PM, Jay Nemrow <jnemrow@quix.us> wrote:
(???) So, what is your vote, Avery? Break old clients or not?
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Mon Aug 04 20:37:34 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
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(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 20:37:34 +0200
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(???) eceived: by fk-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id 18so1881783fks.2
(???) for <gopher@complete.org>; Mon, 04 Aug 2008 11:33:44 -0700 (PDT)
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(???) d=gmail.com; s=gamma;
(???) h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to
(???) :subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type
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(???) bh=XKIFOy5LFId42Gx7oHQcObV94m6kTLmPPb1r9Eh4Ypk=;
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(???) d=gmail.com; s=gamma;
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(???) :references;
(???) b=u5F+u24uAHjtxi9m6By20GrPYLGY2MFotUG/9zpBchLUikir+1RykkatuvzlJIwT0Z
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(???) 7eGWY3lH8hAFL5DUPqTX8rzGsShc51tz9pt3Y=
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(???) ate: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 14:33:44 -0400
(???) rom: "Avery M." <averym@gmail.com>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <e78c27470808041042i73a5caaapa4c3b605510158ef@mail.gmail.com>
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
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(???) eferences: <200808040431.m744VMeF023196@floodgap.com>
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Mon, 04 Aug 2008 13:33:49 -0500
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(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
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(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Gopherness
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 66
(IMG) think people who want to discuss this should start their own list.
(???) n Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 1:42 PM, Jay Nemrow <jnemrow@quix.us> wrote:
(???) So, what is your vote, Avery? Break old clients or not?
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Mon Aug 04 21:05:58 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
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(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
(???) elivery-date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 21:05:58 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Mon, 04 Aug 2008 14:00:57 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from nf-out-0910.google.com ([64.233.182.191])
(???) eceived: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id b2so726548nfb.12
(???) for <gopher@complete.org>; Mon, 04 Aug 2008 12:00:51 -0700 (PDT)
(???) eceived: by 10.210.43.11 with SMTP id q11mr492ebq.199.1217876451461;
(???) Mon, 04 Aug 2008 12:00:51 -0700 (PDT)
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(???) essage-ID: <e78c27470808041200u520b204fvd53eeffd5dd26a39@mail.gmail.com>
(???) ate: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 13:00:51 -0600
(???) rom: "Jay Nemrow" <jnemrow@quix.us>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <f7cf70a70808041133j14cb3d27rf7b66fd9e4fe9cbd@mail.gmail.com>
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(???) ontent-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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(???) eferences: <200808040431.m744VMeF023196@floodgap.com>
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Mon, 04 Aug 2008 14:00:56 -0500
(???) -archive-position: 2328
(???) -ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: jnemrow@quix.us
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Mon, 04 Aug 2008 14:01:06 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Gopherness
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 67
(???) very, you are ditching the question and since this is the Gopher
(???) ailing list, I think the ultimate fate of the protocol is very much
(???) n important thing to discuss here. What are we supposed to be
(???) alking about on the Gopher list?
(???) n Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 12:33 PM, Avery M. <averym@gmail.com> wrote:
(???) I think people who want to discuss this should start their own list.
(???)
(???) On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 1:42 PM, Jay Nemrow <jnemrow@quix.us> wrote:
(???) > So, what is your vote, Avery? Break old clients or not?
(???)
(???)
(???)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Mon Aug 04 21:06:11 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
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(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=0.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 21:06:11 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Mon, 04 Aug 2008 14:00:57 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from nf-out-0910.google.com ([64.233.182.191])
(???) eceived: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id b2so726548nfb.12
(???) for <gopher@complete.org>; Mon, 04 Aug 2008 12:00:51 -0700 (PDT)
(???) eceived: by 10.210.43.11 with SMTP id q11mr492ebq.199.1217876451461;
(???) Mon, 04 Aug 2008 12:00:51 -0700 (PDT)
(???) eceived: by 10.210.104.19 with HTTP; Mon, 4 Aug 2008 12:00:51 -0700 (PDT)
(???) essage-ID: <e78c27470808041200u520b204fvd53eeffd5dd26a39@mail.gmail.com>
(???) ate: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 13:00:51 -0600
(???) rom: "Jay Nemrow" <jnemrow@quix.us>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <f7cf70a70808041133j14cb3d27rf7b66fd9e4fe9cbd@mail.gmail.com>
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
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(???) eferences: <200808040431.m744VMeF023196@floodgap.com>
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Mon, 04 Aug 2008 14:00:56 -0500
(???) -archive-position: 2328
(???) -ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: jnemrow@quix.us
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Mon, 04 Aug 2008 14:01:06 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Gopherness
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 68
(???) very, you are ditching the question and since this is the Gopher
(???) ailing list, I think the ultimate fate of the protocol is very much
(???) n important thing to discuss here. What are we supposed to be
(???) alking about on the Gopher list?
(???) n Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 12:33 PM, Avery M. <averym@gmail.com> wrote:
(???) I think people who want to discuss this should start their own list.
(???)
(???) On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 1:42 PM, Jay Nemrow <jnemrow@quix.us> wrote:
(???) > So, what is your vote, Avery? Break old clients or not?
(???)
(???)
(???)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Mon Aug 04 21:09:55 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
(???) elivery-date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 21:09:55 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Mon, 04 Aug 2008 14:05:15 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from main.gmane.org ([80.91.229.2] helo=ciao.gmane.org)
(???) eceived: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43)
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(???) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00
(???) for <gopher@complete.org>; Mon, 04 Aug 2008 18:08:30 +0000
(???) eceived: from nunojsilva by bl10-152-191.dsl.telepac.pt with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian))
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(???) for <gopher@complete.org>; Mon, 04 Aug 2008 18:08:30 +0000
(???) -Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) rom: nunojsilva@ist.utl.pt (Nuno J. Silva)
(???) ate: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 19:08:17 +0100
(???) ines: 66
(???) essage-ID: <87d4koodpq.fsf@deschutes.local.lan>
(???) eferences: <200808040431.m744VMeF023196@floodgap.com> <48972C0E.2000604@sinedev.org> <e78c27470808041005h3db3b248p930ad3459b3dad7@mail.gmail.com>
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(???) ser-Agent: Gnus/5.1008 (Gnus v5.10.8) Emacs/22.2 (gnu/linux)
(???) ancel-Lock: sha1:d19xwm+KKZGg7z6JGcRDL9Zsipg=
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Mon, 04 Aug 2008 14:05:14 -0500
(???) -archive-position: 2329
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(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: nunojsilva@ist.utl.pt
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Mon, 04 Aug 2008 14:05:25 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Gopherness
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 69
(???) Jay Nemrow" <jnemrow@quix.us> writes:
(???) On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 10:19 AM, Kyevan <kyevan@sinedev.org> wrote:
(???) > What about older clients, though? Modern clients will probably handle
(???) > UTF-8 at least well enough to not explode, but older clients might not.
(???) > Generally, it seems safest to stick to the subset that is ASCII when
(???) > reasonable, only using UTF-8 or such when it's actually needed. ... is a
(???) > perfectly readable replacement for U+2026, even if it's not
(???) > "typographically correct." On the other hand, if you're trying to post a
(???) > text in, say, a mix of Arabic, and Klingon, go right ahead and use
(???) > UTF-8.
(TN3) here are also these iso* charsets which just use 8 bit to encode the
(???) ext, not allowing a greater collection of characters, and using those
(???) ou wouldn't be able to mix charsets.
(???) or iso*, AFAIK, some sort of character detection, or configuration
(???) ould be required on the client side (it is possible to do that getting
(???) he document language using gopher+ - and URLs pointing to the specific
(???) iew (even if it is just one) would be required to autodetect when
(???) rowsing a non-ASCII URL). utf8 will have to be supported, for the small
(???) but not zero) scenarios in which two non-ASCII alphabets are mixed in
(???) he same text, and auto-detect would fail (unless a special language
(???) ode is used for mixed-language documents, or if the client handles more
(???) han one non-english language (if it is allowed to specify more than one
n the gopher+ attributes) as utf8).
(???) n the other hand, even if the choice was utf8 (so the documents would
(???) e ASCII or utf8), I'd keep iso* support, just in case (therefore my
(???) uestion is 'should we use the same sort of character encoding when
(PNG) ublishing non-english documents? if yes, which one?' and not 'what
(SND) hould a client support?').
(???) hat's the actual scenario? Is there any client which crashes due to
(???) tf8? Which clients are not able to render it correctly? And what about
so* charsets support?
(???) snip/>
(???) If we do a version of Gopher which is basically new (adding UTF-8 or
(???) MIME or whatever), I think we should ask for and get a new port
(???) assignment for it. If you wanted Goph08, send the request through a
(???) Goph08 port number. Gopher request continue to go through port 70.
(???) Just have your server listen on two ports instead of one, using the
(???) old idea that if you are using a different protocol (essentially), you
(???) should use a different port. (Crazy idea, I know.) I guess this gets
(???) back to an old point, which is that a modern version of Gopher is
(???) essentially a new protocol and should be treated as such. If you guys
(???) want to change Gopher to "improve" it, it ceases to be Gopher.
(???) "Updated" nostalgia is not nostalgia at all.
(???) dding a new way to do the mime part would be a reason to make another
(???) ersion of the gopher protocol, or a protocol under a different name,
(???) ut about utf8, it's not about gopher, it's about the way text is
(???) endered by the client, not requiring any change in the protocol.
(???) -
(???) uno J. Silva (aka njsg)
(???) EIC student at Instituto Superior Técnico
(???) isbon, Portugal
(???) omepage: http://njsg.no.sapo.pt/
(???) opherspace: gopher://sdf-eu.org/11/users/njsg
(???) egistered Linux User #402207 - http://counter.li.org
(???) =-=-
(???) `Now we'll have to kill you.''
(???) -- Linus Torvalds
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Mon Aug 04 21:10:06 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 21:10:06 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Mon, 04 Aug 2008 14:05:15 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from main.gmane.org ([80.91.229.2] helo=ciao.gmane.org)
(???) eceived: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43)
(???) eceived: from bl10-152-191.dsl.telepac.pt ([85.243.152.191])
(???) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian))
(???) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00
(???) for <gopher@complete.org>; Mon, 04 Aug 2008 18:08:30 +0000
(???) eceived: from nunojsilva by bl10-152-191.dsl.telepac.pt with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian))
(???) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00
(???) for <gopher@complete.org>; Mon, 04 Aug 2008 18:08:30 +0000
(???) -Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) rom: nunojsilva@ist.utl.pt (Nuno J. Silva)
(???) ate: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 19:08:17 +0100
(???) ines: 66
(???) essage-ID: <87d4koodpq.fsf@deschutes.local.lan>
(???) eferences: <200808040431.m744VMeF023196@floodgap.com> <48972C0E.2000604@sinedev.org> <e78c27470808041005h3db3b248p930ad3459b3dad7@mail.gmail.com>
(???) ime-Version: 1.0
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(???) ser-Agent: Gnus/5.1008 (Gnus v5.10.8) Emacs/22.2 (gnu/linux)
(???) ancel-Lock: sha1:d19xwm+KKZGg7z6JGcRDL9Zsipg=
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Mon, 04 Aug 2008 14:05:14 -0500
(???) -archive-position: 2329
(???) -ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: nunojsilva@ist.utl.pt
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Mon, 04 Aug 2008 14:05:25 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Gopherness
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 70
(???) Jay Nemrow" <jnemrow@quix.us> writes:
(???) On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 10:19 AM, Kyevan <kyevan@sinedev.org> wrote:
(???) > What about older clients, though? Modern clients will probably handle
(???) > UTF-8 at least well enough to not explode, but older clients might not.
(???) > Generally, it seems safest to stick to the subset that is ASCII when
(???) > reasonable, only using UTF-8 or such when it's actually needed. ... is a
(???) > perfectly readable replacement for U+2026, even if it's not
(???) > "typographically correct." On the other hand, if you're trying to post a
(???) > text in, say, a mix of Arabic, and Klingon, go right ahead and use
(???) > UTF-8.
(TN3) here are also these iso* charsets which just use 8 bit to encode the
(???) ext, not allowing a greater collection of characters, and using those
(???) ou wouldn't be able to mix charsets.
(???) or iso*, AFAIK, some sort of character detection, or configuration
(???) ould be required on the client side (it is possible to do that getting
(???) he document language using gopher+ - and URLs pointing to the specific
(???) iew (even if it is just one) would be required to autodetect when
(???) rowsing a non-ASCII URL). utf8 will have to be supported, for the small
(???) but not zero) scenarios in which two non-ASCII alphabets are mixed in
(???) he same text, and auto-detect would fail (unless a special language
(???) ode is used for mixed-language documents, or if the client handles more
(???) han one non-english language (if it is allowed to specify more than one
n the gopher+ attributes) as utf8).
(???) n the other hand, even if the choice was utf8 (so the documents would
(???) e ASCII or utf8), I'd keep iso* support, just in case (therefore my
(???) uestion is 'should we use the same sort of character encoding when
(PNG) ublishing non-english documents? if yes, which one?' and not 'what
(SND) hould a client support?').
(???) hat's the actual scenario? Is there any client which crashes due to
(???) tf8? Which clients are not able to render it correctly? And what about
so* charsets support?
(???) snip/>
(???) If we do a version of Gopher which is basically new (adding UTF-8 or
(???) MIME or whatever), I think we should ask for and get a new port
(???) assignment for it. If you wanted Goph08, send the request through a
(???) Goph08 port number. Gopher request continue to go through port 70.
(???) Just have your server listen on two ports instead of one, using the
(???) old idea that if you are using a different protocol (essentially), you
(???) should use a different port. (Crazy idea, I know.) I guess this gets
(???) back to an old point, which is that a modern version of Gopher is
(???) essentially a new protocol and should be treated as such. If you guys
(???) want to change Gopher to "improve" it, it ceases to be Gopher.
(???) "Updated" nostalgia is not nostalgia at all.
(???) dding a new way to do the mime part would be a reason to make another
(???) ersion of the gopher protocol, or a protocol under a different name,
(???) ut about utf8, it's not about gopher, it's about the way text is
(???) endered by the client, not requiring any change in the protocol.
(???) -
(???) uno J. Silva (aka njsg)
(???) EIC student at Instituto Superior Técnico
(???) isbon, Portugal
(???) omepage: http://njsg.no.sapo.pt/
(???) opherspace: gopher://sdf-eu.org/11/users/njsg
(???) egistered Linux User #402207 - http://counter.li.org
(???) =-=-
(???) `Now we'll have to kill you.''
(???) -- Linus Torvalds
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Mon Aug 04 21:17:05 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
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(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,DKIM_SIGNED,SPF_HELO_PASS,
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
(???) elivery-date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 21:17:05 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Mon, 04 Aug 2008 14:13:11 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from fk-out-0910.google.com ([209.85.128.187])
(???) eceived: by fk-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id 18so1890205fks.2
(???) for <gopher@complete.org>; Mon, 04 Aug 2008 12:13:06 -0700 (PDT)
(???) KIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
(???) d=gmail.com; s=gamma;
(???) h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to
(???) :subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type
(???) :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references;
(???) bh=LPjtWZi3KxPK5KH7HN7IkHSPfh4lFBbHglDjvmrImtk=;
(???) b=WRxLQ02K6qGoPygOs3l9LGqbRA9nOjb76McWl5dtRNjyKlDobifgNALamSWo4e0kYp
(???) xVNjLlXUMKtkErHbsh/yyPmWKU6rnapfQn29mHLtHiH5Lz7Xgnxne+Jxlwk7z7TLRWM0
(???) kWkvR+obG09byS3lDSOzM2wdARMNECbp97WaQ=
(???) omainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws;
(???) d=gmail.com; s=gamma;
(???) h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version
(???) :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition
(???) :references;
(???) b=J4V8HOlzaewS2PK+CJ0afEgbzMaCA8FT61Zw19qL6yBqbw/eevcg9tBhyA1vLUZ2Am
(???) W8wn3Z17gwkwBbcbAGCMKx7IXF77PEuZ0o9Z0R3qCZk/8TLVEpvHmGQ3q7cxGZhEk2X4
(???) 2CCQfJX7SGnncuPsm9D2506r+h6MGiDEGy4y4=
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(???) ate: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 15:13:06 -0400
(???) rom: "Avery M." <averym@gmail.com>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <e78c27470808041200u520b204fvd53eeffd5dd26a39@mail.gmail.com>
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(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Gopherness
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 71
(???) n Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 3:00 PM, Jay Nemrow <jnemrow@quix.us> wrote:
(???) I think the ultimate fate of the protocol is very much
(???) an important thing to discuss here.
(TN3) his discussion is not about the fate of the protocol (as far as I can
(???) ell, the RFC will not bitrot for some time now). It is about creating
(???) new protocol and I don't care to read about it.
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Mon Aug 04 21:17:11 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
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(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,DKIM_SIGNED,SPF_HELO_PASS,
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 21:17:11 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Mon, 04 Aug 2008 14:13:11 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from fk-out-0910.google.com ([209.85.128.187])
(???) eceived: by fk-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id 18so1890205fks.2
(???) for <gopher@complete.org>; Mon, 04 Aug 2008 12:13:06 -0700 (PDT)
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(???) :subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type
(???) :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references;
(???) bh=LPjtWZi3KxPK5KH7HN7IkHSPfh4lFBbHglDjvmrImtk=;
(???) b=WRxLQ02K6qGoPygOs3l9LGqbRA9nOjb76McWl5dtRNjyKlDobifgNALamSWo4e0kYp
(???) xVNjLlXUMKtkErHbsh/yyPmWKU6rnapfQn29mHLtHiH5Lz7Xgnxne+Jxlwk7z7TLRWM0
(???) kWkvR+obG09byS3lDSOzM2wdARMNECbp97WaQ=
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(???) d=gmail.com; s=gamma;
(???) h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version
(???) :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition
(???) :references;
(???) b=J4V8HOlzaewS2PK+CJ0afEgbzMaCA8FT61Zw19qL6yBqbw/eevcg9tBhyA1vLUZ2Am
(???) W8wn3Z17gwkwBbcbAGCMKx7IXF77PEuZ0o9Z0R3qCZk/8TLVEpvHmGQ3q7cxGZhEk2X4
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(???) ate: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 15:13:06 -0400
(???) rom: "Avery M." <averym@gmail.com>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <e78c27470808041200u520b204fvd53eeffd5dd26a39@mail.gmail.com>
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(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Gopherness
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(???) tatus: O
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(???) -UID: 72
(???) n Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 3:00 PM, Jay Nemrow <jnemrow@quix.us> wrote:
(???) I think the ultimate fate of the protocol is very much
(???) an important thing to discuss here.
(TN3) his discussion is not about the fate of the protocol (as far as I can
(???) ell, the RFC will not bitrot for some time now). It is about creating
(???) new protocol and I don't care to read about it.
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Mon Aug 04 21:35:54 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
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(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=0.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
(???) elivery-date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 21:35:54 +0200
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(???) ate: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 13:30:53 -0600
(???) rom: "Jay Nemrow" <jnemrow@quix.us>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
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(???) eferences: <200808040431.m744VMeF023196@floodgap.com>
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Mon, 04 Aug 2008 14:30:58 -0500
(???) -archive-position: 2331
(???) -ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: jnemrow@quix.us
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Mon, 04 Aug 2008 14:31:08 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Gopherness
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 73
(IMG) don't doubt the usefulness of a new gopher-ish protocol especially
(???) hen compared with Gopher, that was a comparative (to FTP) lightweight
(???) hen it was created. I don't say that people shouldn't create new
(???) hings, but to change the protocol means that the old one is gone.
(???) aput. Old clients will not work anymore (with "updated" servers) and
(???) o one is supposed to care that they don't work anymore. Gopher has
(???) een somewhat unique because it is still useful in spite of being
(???) rozen in time. Ten year old c64 clients still work with gopher
(SND) ervers and you can access a file (if you want to) through gopher.
(???) uilding clients and servers are a great beginning work in socket
(PNG) rogramming before you graduate to tougher protocols. I have given
(???) hese justifications before and I tire of bringing them up time and
(???) ime again.
(???) hen you talk to port 70, an internet server expects to converse in
(???) opher. This is established and has been for years. If you want to
(SND) peak another protocol, get yourself another port. This is also the
(???) stablished way to handle new protocols that refuse to be
(???) ackward-compatible with established protocols.
(IMG) f you guys who want an essentially new protocol go off and do that,
t hurts no one. gopher continues and whatever work you produce can
(PNG) ress forward. If you want your servers to do gopher, your new
(PNG) rotocol, and a few others, that is wonderful and great and you have
(???) uch precedent for your work, as there are gopher/web servers out
(???) here. I say, go for it.
(IMG) f you people insist on breaking old gopher clients and servers, you
(???) re being destructive and people who prefer the original protocol and
(???) ike to serve content viewable on 80s era computers will be cut off.
(???) opher will no longer do that job. I think it would be rather
(DOC) isingenuous to call the new protocol gopher, as it will not be what
(???) MN produced (sounds like it won't work with it, either) and what they
(???) amed after their mascot. It almost smacks of trademark infringement
(???) though that is probably a stretch) to break the original.
(???) y basic question is: Must Gopher0 be destroyed (or broken) for
(PNG) eople to find happiness here? Can't you guys make a new name and
(???) egister a new port assignment along with creating your new gopher-ish
(PNG) rotocol?
(IMG) f Avery wants a new mailing list, I propose that it be created with
(???) he intent of talking about the "New" gopher. That is always what
(???) ustified a new mailing list in the past - taking a new direction.
(???) n Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 11:54 AM, Kyevan <kyevan@sinedev.org> wrote:
(???) Jay Nemrow wrote:
(???) > "Updated" nostalgia is not nostalgia at all.
(???)
(???) Sure, but an improved Gopher could have practical uses. I think,
(???) perhaps, it might be a better idea to start from nearly scratch and
(???) create a new protocol that takes the best ideas from Gopher (the
(???) simplicity of the client! the structured layout!) and add and modifies
(???) features that we feel would be useful (Replace the limited item type
(???) system with something based on MIME types (which has the useful fallback
(???) of "display unknown text/* types as text, everything else unknown should
(???) be treated as application/octet-stream"), sending some metadata in the
(???) response, perhaps define a way to send requests with data).
(???)
(???) This is different than extending Gopher in that we DON'T worry about
(???) backwards compatibility - at least, not on the protocol level. Servers
(???) that speak both Gopher and Comepher (or another bad pun, since those
(???) seem to be inevitable) would be a Good Thing.
(???)
(???)
(???)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Mon Aug 04 21:36:07 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=0.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 21:36:07 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Mon, 04 Aug 2008 14:30:58 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from nf-out-0910.google.com ([64.233.182.184])
(???) eceived: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id b2so733044nfb.12
(???) for <gopher@complete.org>; Mon, 04 Aug 2008 12:30:53 -0700 (PDT)
(???) eceived: by 10.210.82.7 with SMTP id f7mr43315ebb.185.1217878253438;
(???) Mon, 04 Aug 2008 12:30:53 -0700 (PDT)
(???) eceived: by 10.210.104.19 with HTTP; Mon, 4 Aug 2008 12:30:53 -0700 (PDT)
(???) essage-ID: <e78c27470808041230w4a955100xa5decd27ed3ac7cd@mail.gmail.com>
(???) ate: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 13:30:53 -0600
(???) rom: "Jay Nemrow" <jnemrow@quix.us>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <48974272.8080804@sinedev.org>
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(???) ontent-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
(???) ontent-Disposition: inline
(???) eferences: <200808040431.m744VMeF023196@floodgap.com>
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Mon, 04 Aug 2008 14:30:58 -0500
(???) -archive-position: 2331
(???) -ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: jnemrow@quix.us
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Mon, 04 Aug 2008 14:31:08 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Gopherness
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 74
(IMG) don't doubt the usefulness of a new gopher-ish protocol especially
(???) hen compared with Gopher, that was a comparative (to FTP) lightweight
(???) hen it was created. I don't say that people shouldn't create new
(???) hings, but to change the protocol means that the old one is gone.
(???) aput. Old clients will not work anymore (with "updated" servers) and
(???) o one is supposed to care that they don't work anymore. Gopher has
(???) een somewhat unique because it is still useful in spite of being
(???) rozen in time. Ten year old c64 clients still work with gopher
(SND) ervers and you can access a file (if you want to) through gopher.
(???) uilding clients and servers are a great beginning work in socket
(PNG) rogramming before you graduate to tougher protocols. I have given
(???) hese justifications before and I tire of bringing them up time and
(???) ime again.
(???) hen you talk to port 70, an internet server expects to converse in
(???) opher. This is established and has been for years. If you want to
(SND) peak another protocol, get yourself another port. This is also the
(???) stablished way to handle new protocols that refuse to be
(???) ackward-compatible with established protocols.
(IMG) f you guys who want an essentially new protocol go off and do that,
t hurts no one. gopher continues and whatever work you produce can
(PNG) ress forward. If you want your servers to do gopher, your new
(PNG) rotocol, and a few others, that is wonderful and great and you have
(???) uch precedent for your work, as there are gopher/web servers out
(???) here. I say, go for it.
(IMG) f you people insist on breaking old gopher clients and servers, you
(???) re being destructive and people who prefer the original protocol and
(???) ike to serve content viewable on 80s era computers will be cut off.
(???) opher will no longer do that job. I think it would be rather
(DOC) isingenuous to call the new protocol gopher, as it will not be what
(???) MN produced (sounds like it won't work with it, either) and what they
(???) amed after their mascot. It almost smacks of trademark infringement
(???) though that is probably a stretch) to break the original.
(???) y basic question is: Must Gopher0 be destroyed (or broken) for
(PNG) eople to find happiness here? Can't you guys make a new name and
(???) egister a new port assignment along with creating your new gopher-ish
(PNG) rotocol?
(IMG) f Avery wants a new mailing list, I propose that it be created with
(???) he intent of talking about the "New" gopher. That is always what
(???) ustified a new mailing list in the past - taking a new direction.
(???) n Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 11:54 AM, Kyevan <kyevan@sinedev.org> wrote:
(???) Jay Nemrow wrote:
(???) > "Updated" nostalgia is not nostalgia at all.
(???)
(???) Sure, but an improved Gopher could have practical uses. I think,
(???) perhaps, it might be a better idea to start from nearly scratch and
(???) create a new protocol that takes the best ideas from Gopher (the
(???) simplicity of the client! the structured layout!) and add and modifies
(???) features that we feel would be useful (Replace the limited item type
(???) system with something based on MIME types (which has the useful fallback
(???) of "display unknown text/* types as text, everything else unknown should
(???) be treated as application/octet-stream"), sending some metadata in the
(???) response, perhaps define a way to send requests with data).
(???)
(???) This is different than extending Gopher in that we DON'T worry about
(???) backwards compatibility - at least, not on the protocol level. Servers
(???) that speak both Gopher and Comepher (or another bad pun, since those
(???) seem to be inevitable) would be a Good Thing.
(???)
(???)
(???)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Mon Aug 04 22:36:06 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
(???) elivery-date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 22:36:06 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Mon, 04 Aug 2008 15:31:34 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from ik-out-1112.google.com ([66.249.90.176])
(???) eceived: by ik-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id c21so2657852ika.2
(???) for <gopher@complete.org>; Mon, 04 Aug 2008 13:31:24 -0700 (PDT)
(???) eceived: by 10.210.72.19 with SMTP id u19mr164157eba.55.1217881884409;
(???) Mon, 04 Aug 2008 13:31:24 -0700 (PDT)
(???) eceived: by 10.210.104.19 with HTTP; Mon, 4 Aug 2008 13:31:24 -0700 (PDT)
(???) essage-ID: <e78c27470808041331y9caa538h1f8590ca5d29739@mail.gmail.com>
(???) ate: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 14:31:24 -0600
(???) rom: "Jay Nemrow" <jnemrow@quix.us>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <200808040437.m744bgcL028478@floodgap.com>
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(???) ontent-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
(???) ontent-Disposition: inline
(???) eferences: <721789.74404.qm@web35703.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Mon, 04 Aug 2008 15:31:34 -0500
(???) -archive-position: 2332
(???) -ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: jnemrow@quix.us
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Mon, 04 Aug 2008 15:31:43 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Item Type Suggestions
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 75
(???) ameron is right. I got confused a while back about how URLs relate
(???) o "magic strings" in gopher and concluded that although there might
(???) e a correlation, there doesn't have to be. Even the idea that a
(PNG) articular magic string correlates to a particular item is not perfect
(???) the magic string has only as much relevance to anything as the
(SND) erver you are communicating with chooses to give it. I was thinking
(???) bout this when I realized there there are really no error messages in
(GIF) opher - the server simply serves some content (perhaps a "hey, I
(DOC) on't understand you") based on the magic string you gave - it is
(SND) till working just fine and sending a resource in response to your
(SND) tring. Although you may construe a message as an error, the server
s still just serving up a resource according to a magic string.
(IMG) could give a magic string like this
(???) I@HaTe&GrImE*too|\[]uyiuysdfpuyui" and the server can give a reply,
ncluding a specific resource that is actually referenced using this
(PNG) articular string. The fact that the magic string often looks like a
(???) ilesystem reference just indicates that mapping strings to a
(???) ilesystem is an easy way to arrange things. This opens up a wild and
(???) ooly world where virtual resources can be worked with as readily as
(???) ice directory/file entities are (without working hard to force
(???) irtual data into some directory/file paradigm). Actually, web
(SND) ervers can work the same way (and often do under CGI), but
(DOC) irectory/file conventions are almost set in stone in many people's
(???) inds. It doesn't have to be that way and neither gopher nor web
(???) lients should not suppose that things have to be that way.
(???) n Sun, Aug 3, 2008 at 10:37 PM, Cameron Kaiser <spectre@floodgap.com> wrote:
(???) > > > Exactly - you can't rely on '/' being the separator, or that the last
(???) > > > section cut off yields the valid parent dir, or even that there are
(???) > > > directories.
(???)
(???) > > And here goes an example against the method I suggested.
(???) > > An url pointing at a jumpjet resource:
(???)
(???) > Backslashes are a native feature of all DOS and Windows based Gopher
(???) > Servers.
(???)
(???) Exactly. What Nuno was getting at is that the path separator will vary from
(???) system to system -- off the top of my head, I can think of \ (FAT), /, :
(???) (Mac HFS), etc. And then there's VMS, and ...
(???)
(???) I even have an old Alpha Micro server here and it doesn't *have* a concept
(???) of paths at all, just ersatzes, disks and PPNs.
(???)
(???) AFAIC, trying to parse the selector for parent menus is just going to be a
(???) big kludge and won't work all the time or everywhere.
(???)
(???) --
(???) ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
(???) Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser@floodgap.com
(???) -- With a rubber duck, one's never alone. -- Douglas Adams, "HGTTG" -----------
(???)
(???)
(???)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Mon Aug 04 22:36:32 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 22:36:32 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Mon, 04 Aug 2008 15:31:34 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from ik-out-1112.google.com ([66.249.90.176])
(???) eceived: by ik-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id c21so2657852ika.2
(???) for <gopher@complete.org>; Mon, 04 Aug 2008 13:31:24 -0700 (PDT)
(???) eceived: by 10.210.72.19 with SMTP id u19mr164157eba.55.1217881884409;
(???) Mon, 04 Aug 2008 13:31:24 -0700 (PDT)
(???) eceived: by 10.210.104.19 with HTTP; Mon, 4 Aug 2008 13:31:24 -0700 (PDT)
(???) essage-ID: <e78c27470808041331y9caa538h1f8590ca5d29739@mail.gmail.com>
(???) ate: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 14:31:24 -0600
(???) rom: "Jay Nemrow" <jnemrow@quix.us>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <200808040437.m744bgcL028478@floodgap.com>
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(???) ontent-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
(???) ontent-Disposition: inline
(???) eferences: <721789.74404.qm@web35703.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Mon, 04 Aug 2008 15:31:34 -0500
(???) -archive-position: 2332
(???) -ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: jnemrow@quix.us
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Mon, 04 Aug 2008 15:31:43 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Item Type Suggestions
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 76
(???) ameron is right. I got confused a while back about how URLs relate
(???) o "magic strings" in gopher and concluded that although there might
(???) e a correlation, there doesn't have to be. Even the idea that a
(PNG) articular magic string correlates to a particular item is not perfect
(???) the magic string has only as much relevance to anything as the
(SND) erver you are communicating with chooses to give it. I was thinking
(???) bout this when I realized there there are really no error messages in
(GIF) opher - the server simply serves some content (perhaps a "hey, I
(DOC) on't understand you") based on the magic string you gave - it is
(SND) till working just fine and sending a resource in response to your
(SND) tring. Although you may construe a message as an error, the server
s still just serving up a resource according to a magic string.
(IMG) could give a magic string like this
(???) I@HaTe&GrImE*too|\[]uyiuysdfpuyui" and the server can give a reply,
ncluding a specific resource that is actually referenced using this
(PNG) articular string. The fact that the magic string often looks like a
(???) ilesystem reference just indicates that mapping strings to a
(???) ilesystem is an easy way to arrange things. This opens up a wild and
(???) ooly world where virtual resources can be worked with as readily as
(???) ice directory/file entities are (without working hard to force
(???) irtual data into some directory/file paradigm). Actually, web
(SND) ervers can work the same way (and often do under CGI), but
(DOC) irectory/file conventions are almost set in stone in many people's
(???) inds. It doesn't have to be that way and neither gopher nor web
(???) lients should not suppose that things have to be that way.
(???) n Sun, Aug 3, 2008 at 10:37 PM, Cameron Kaiser <spectre@floodgap.com> wrote:
(???) > > > Exactly - you can't rely on '/' being the separator, or that the last
(???) > > > section cut off yields the valid parent dir, or even that there are
(???) > > > directories.
(???)
(???) > > And here goes an example against the method I suggested.
(???) > > An url pointing at a jumpjet resource:
(???)
(???) > Backslashes are a native feature of all DOS and Windows based Gopher
(???) > Servers.
(???)
(???) Exactly. What Nuno was getting at is that the path separator will vary from
(???) system to system -- off the top of my head, I can think of \ (FAT), /, :
(???) (Mac HFS), etc. And then there's VMS, and ...
(???)
(???) I even have an old Alpha Micro server here and it doesn't *have* a concept
(???) of paths at all, just ersatzes, disks and PPNs.
(???)
(???) AFAIC, trying to parse the selector for parent menus is just going to be a
(???) big kludge and won't work all the time or everywhere.
(???)
(???) --
(???) ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
(???) Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser@floodgap.com
(???) -- With a rubber duck, one's never alone. -- Douglas Adams, "HGTTG" -----------
(???)
(???)
(???)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Mon Aug 04 22:59:51 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
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(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
(???) elivery-date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 22:59:51 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Mon, 04 Aug 2008 15:54:26 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from ik-out-1112.google.com ([66.249.90.178])
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(???) for <gopher@complete.org>; Mon, 04 Aug 2008 13:54:22 -0700 (PDT)
(???) eceived: by 10.210.92.8 with SMTP id p8mr148452ebb.182.1217883262063;
(???) Mon, 04 Aug 2008 13:54:22 -0700 (PDT)
(???) eceived: by 10.210.104.19 with HTTP; Mon, 4 Aug 2008 13:54:22 -0700 (PDT)
(???) essage-ID: <e78c27470808041354m7fd4013dhe83218f241abdd70@mail.gmail.com>
(???) ate: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 14:54:22 -0600
(???) rom: "Jay Nemrow" <jnemrow@quix.us>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
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(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Mon, 04 Aug 2008 15:54:26 -0500
(???) -archive-position: 2333
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(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: jnemrow@quix.us
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Mon, 04 Aug 2008 15:54:35 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Fate of the Protocol (was Re: Gopherness)
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 77
(???) hen you say "I don't care to read about it," do you mean that you
(DOC) on't care to read about creating the new protocol?
(IMG) f you are referring to the Gopherness thread, you are right to be
(???) omplaining about its direction! At some point, someone got seriously
(???) ff track, probably typing a response to another thread in this one in
(???) rror. Of course, no one can control where forks end up.
(???) ctually, I have to disagree with the fate of the RFC. If those who
(???) ant to change the protocol insist on using port 70 and "obsolete" the
(???) FC through creating a replacement, Gopher will essentially disappear
(???) s an established service. Confusion will begin as you must try to
(???) scertain what "flavor" of gopher is being served and some clients
(???) ill work and some will not with some servers. If it is going to be a
(???) ree-for-all on port 70 and no one cares that it will be, most people
(???) ill abandon it as worthless. It is like some spammer taking over a
(???) ewsgroup - everyone just wanders off because comp.sys.atom becomes
(SND) pam.spam.spam. I don't want that to happen on port 70.
(???) n Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 1:13 PM, Avery M. <averym@gmail.com> wrote:
(???) On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 3:00 PM, Jay Nemrow <jnemrow@quix.us> wrote:
(???) > I think the ultimate fate of the protocol is very much
(???) > an important thing to discuss here.
(???)
(???) This discussion is not about the fate of the protocol (as far as I can
(???) tell, the RFC will not bitrot for some time now). It is about creating
(???) a new protocol and I don't care to read about it.
(???)
(???)
(???)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Mon Aug 04 23:00:03 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 23:00:03 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Mon, 04 Aug 2008 15:54:26 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from ik-out-1112.google.com ([66.249.90.178])
(???) eceived: by ik-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id c21so2666088ika.2
(???) for <gopher@complete.org>; Mon, 04 Aug 2008 13:54:22 -0700 (PDT)
(???) eceived: by 10.210.92.8 with SMTP id p8mr148452ebb.182.1217883262063;
(???) Mon, 04 Aug 2008 13:54:22 -0700 (PDT)
(???) eceived: by 10.210.104.19 with HTTP; Mon, 4 Aug 2008 13:54:22 -0700 (PDT)
(???) essage-ID: <e78c27470808041354m7fd4013dhe83218f241abdd70@mail.gmail.com>
(???) ate: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 14:54:22 -0600
(???) rom: "Jay Nemrow" <jnemrow@quix.us>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(???) ontent-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
(???) ontent-Disposition: inline
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Mon, 04 Aug 2008 15:54:26 -0500
(???) -archive-position: 2333
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(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: jnemrow@quix.us
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Mon, 04 Aug 2008 15:54:35 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Fate of the Protocol (was Re: Gopherness)
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 78
(???) hen you say "I don't care to read about it," do you mean that you
(DOC) on't care to read about creating the new protocol?
(IMG) f you are referring to the Gopherness thread, you are right to be
(???) omplaining about its direction! At some point, someone got seriously
(???) ff track, probably typing a response to another thread in this one in
(???) rror. Of course, no one can control where forks end up.
(???) ctually, I have to disagree with the fate of the RFC. If those who
(???) ant to change the protocol insist on using port 70 and "obsolete" the
(???) FC through creating a replacement, Gopher will essentially disappear
(???) s an established service. Confusion will begin as you must try to
(???) scertain what "flavor" of gopher is being served and some clients
(???) ill work and some will not with some servers. If it is going to be a
(???) ree-for-all on port 70 and no one cares that it will be, most people
(???) ill abandon it as worthless. It is like some spammer taking over a
(???) ewsgroup - everyone just wanders off because comp.sys.atom becomes
(SND) pam.spam.spam. I don't want that to happen on port 70.
(???) n Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 1:13 PM, Avery M. <averym@gmail.com> wrote:
(???) On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 3:00 PM, Jay Nemrow <jnemrow@quix.us> wrote:
(???) > I think the ultimate fate of the protocol is very much
(???) > an important thing to discuss here.
(???)
(???) This discussion is not about the fate of the protocol (as far as I can
(???) tell, the RFC will not bitrot for some time now). It is about creating
(???) a new protocol and I don't care to read about it.
(???)
(???)
(???)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Mon Aug 04 23:24:07 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,DKIM_SIGNED,SPF_HELO_PASS,
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
(???) elivery-date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 23:24:07 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Mon, 04 Aug 2008 16:20:08 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from fk-out-0910.google.com ([209.85.128.184])
(???) eceived: by fk-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id 18so1927065fks.2
(???) for <gopher@complete.org>; Mon, 04 Aug 2008 14:20:03 -0700 (PDT)
(???) KIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
(???) d=gmail.com; s=gamma;
(???) h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to
(???) :subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type
(???) :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references;
(???) bh=oMAFBITrzrBcY5TvijjWM5/OMS/mlaCa68DUz8/NN2g=;
(???) b=qfqDAbodU5sFA0r2pPjhhRadtinl/LKuLO2IJ+jHKAfjf/PlUQ6nQ4g0C1+ape64jA
(???) 8pxZ5L63TfJgT8jzWBi8Es09+FrnoUHtkrRWjCfyISBuGUFYiR+OnslZ1iiOMzIMCvzo
(???) hQ5DspRKgTLT9NWSpgJiDsKV/cKPXDA1rwIb4=
(???) omainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws;
(???) d=gmail.com; s=gamma;
(???) h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version
(???) :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition
(???) :references;
(???) b=STQMrWXg5aka2yWxUxjYc2CZfJ6ChpGBjCxEYc0L20do0/piI5aaMkHdaumB0vWF3U
(???) ++IIfes7px80wPGIHc5ChCrhO6Bek4XKC+F3SuGfx20KeZKnmV7fqmHJ3F8oxozohbQ+
(???) saPUFkJHO8UaMgywi5e/gAMtCS4DXD3gj3aA4=
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(???) ate: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 17:20:02 -0400
(???) rom: "Avery M." <averym@gmail.com>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <e78c27470808041354m7fd4013dhe83218f241abdd70@mail.gmail.com>
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
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(???) eferences: <e78c27470808041354m7fd4013dhe83218f241abdd70@mail.gmail.com>
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Mon, 04 Aug 2008 16:20:08 -0500
(???) -archive-position: 2334
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(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: averym@gmail.com
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(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
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(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Mon, 04 Aug 2008 16:20:17 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Fate of the Protocol (was Re: Gopherness)
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 79
(???) n Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 4:54 PM, Jay Nemrow <jnemrow@quix.us> wrote:
(???) Actually, I have to disagree with the fate of the RFC. If those who
(???) want to change the protocol insist on using port 70 and "obsolete" the
(???) RFC through creating a replacement, Gopher will essentially disappear
(???) as an established service.
(???) ot true. I will simply remove all links to any server using a
(DOC) ifferent protocol. While using port 70 to serve a different protocol
s rude and violates widely observed RFC decorum, it would only take a
(???) inute or two to remove links to innovative servers; using this list
(???) o discuss innovations is even worse because it clogs up my inbox. If
(???) nyone insists on discussing this here and refuses to create a new
(???) ist, please let me know now so I can add you to my spam filter.
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Mon Aug 04 23:24:20 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,DKIM_SIGNED,SPF_HELO_PASS,
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 23:24:20 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Mon, 04 Aug 2008 16:20:08 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from fk-out-0910.google.com ([209.85.128.184])
(???) eceived: by fk-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id 18so1927065fks.2
(???) for <gopher@complete.org>; Mon, 04 Aug 2008 14:20:03 -0700 (PDT)
(???) KIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
(???) d=gmail.com; s=gamma;
(???) h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to
(???) :subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type
(???) :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references;
(???) bh=oMAFBITrzrBcY5TvijjWM5/OMS/mlaCa68DUz8/NN2g=;
(???) b=qfqDAbodU5sFA0r2pPjhhRadtinl/LKuLO2IJ+jHKAfjf/PlUQ6nQ4g0C1+ape64jA
(???) 8pxZ5L63TfJgT8jzWBi8Es09+FrnoUHtkrRWjCfyISBuGUFYiR+OnslZ1iiOMzIMCvzo
(???) hQ5DspRKgTLT9NWSpgJiDsKV/cKPXDA1rwIb4=
(???) omainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws;
(???) d=gmail.com; s=gamma;
(???) h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version
(???) :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition
(???) :references;
(???) b=STQMrWXg5aka2yWxUxjYc2CZfJ6ChpGBjCxEYc0L20do0/piI5aaMkHdaumB0vWF3U
(???) ++IIfes7px80wPGIHc5ChCrhO6Bek4XKC+F3SuGfx20KeZKnmV7fqmHJ3F8oxozohbQ+
(???) saPUFkJHO8UaMgywi5e/gAMtCS4DXD3gj3aA4=
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(???) ate: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 17:20:02 -0400
(???) rom: "Avery M." <averym@gmail.com>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <e78c27470808041354m7fd4013dhe83218f241abdd70@mail.gmail.com>
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
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(???) eferences: <e78c27470808041354m7fd4013dhe83218f241abdd70@mail.gmail.com>
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Mon, 04 Aug 2008 16:20:08 -0500
(???) -archive-position: 2334
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(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: averym@gmail.com
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Mon, 04 Aug 2008 16:20:17 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Fate of the Protocol (was Re: Gopherness)
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 80
(???) n Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 4:54 PM, Jay Nemrow <jnemrow@quix.us> wrote:
(???) Actually, I have to disagree with the fate of the RFC. If those who
(???) want to change the protocol insist on using port 70 and "obsolete" the
(???) RFC through creating a replacement, Gopher will essentially disappear
(???) as an established service.
(???) ot true. I will simply remove all links to any server using a
(DOC) ifferent protocol. While using port 70 to serve a different protocol
s rude and violates widely observed RFC decorum, it would only take a
(???) inute or two to remove links to innovative servers; using this list
(???) o discuss innovations is even worse because it clogs up my inbox. If
(???) nyone insists on discussing this here and refuses to create a new
(???) ist, please let me know now so I can add you to my spam filter.
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Tue Aug 05 00:48:39 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,SPF_HELO_PASS,
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
(???) elivery-date: Tue, 05 Aug 2008 00:48:39 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Mon, 04 Aug 2008 17:41:41 -0500 (CDT)
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(???) bh=omnLgmKevnEQDcNGgplvtawwBLlqeLODFthBwWgfX80=;
(???) b=V27dqsSFFhIshNfoO7CiH2b0xZUv+cf3XransD15pWDjo/vpfvD+lfbA5SxEgGHEqW
(???) 7wDI8MzfPPsxciJzmgn4mgYA8XssxVA1y+BQBS3s2EF9VaLd7Pj3zWoz79mHFNsQasWk
(???) /HC54yr9vW7iWJ2+xDFIODULvu8KkVKEHmZVk=
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(???) :references;
(???) b=sU6br0VMSRfibw/3Tjvu0rfvtjvwF8l89jIFMpt28SnkGC8pZpLoHsF0uMl3hb5Akt
(???) T9lcSXJhz+ORPY0S83BxhFpi/H0Aj+nwQ+d69Iv3FpJ1EIKVlqxS7cyFfJfuFdMkbfuz
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(???) Mon, 04 Aug 2008 14:57:38 -0700 (PDT)
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(???) ate: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 16:57:38 -0500
(???) rom: "Matthew Holevinski" <eylusion@gmail.com>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <87d4koodpq.fsf@deschutes.local.lan>
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(???) -archive-position: 2335
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(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
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(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Gopherness
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 81
(???) ow about Versions? If http, went from 1.x 2.x 3.x 4.x etc. so on. Why
(???) ot gopher.
(IMG) think i understand the problem with the item types and mime subjects
(???) veryone is talking about, it appears as though if one server employs
(???) type of mime for file type differences a client used to item types
(???) ight get confused and vica versa, then everyone has discussed a
(???) yriad of ways to implement both or either features including others.
(???) ould we not worry about breaking old gopher protocol and we could do somet=
(HTM) ing
(???) ike releasing versions of a new gopher server, hopefully this
(???) ouldn't create bloatware
(???) ut what if say there was a new Gopher implementation that is fully compata=
(???) le
(???) ith the old standards, and we could call that version 1.x, and then
(???) lients that
(???) re compatible with all old standards would be 1.x compliant. Now, when som=
(???) one
(???) ould want to say release mimetypes instead of the itemtypes, all
(???) hose little additions
(???) ould be say Gopher 2.x, but here's the trick with the clients, I
(GIF) uess I supppose
(???) hen a client negotiates a connection with a gopher 2.x server and
t's only 1.x compatible(only a label), the server could send just a
(???) eeny tiny datapacket saying
(HTM) ey are you old skool or new skool, at which point if the client
(???) esponds i'm 1.x yo'
(???) he gopher server could either say, okay your too old for me come back
(???) hen you update, or some type of uber server script that rewrites it's
(DOC) ata in realtime, like, if the
(???) ntire gopher filesystem is in mimetypes and such, it will know better
(SND) ay when sending mime/mpeg or whatnot to be retrieve as itemtype 9 or
(???) hatever it is, so the older client would know how to interpret the
(DOC) ata.
(???) eems to me all a lot of these features, could be backwards
(???) ompatable, and I'd hate to
(SND) ee the size of the server software grow considerably in size, but
(???) ouldn't a new server software that just says Hey, I'm Gopher Server
(???) ide Software version 1x, I include all that is gopher+ and oldschool,
(???) hen get everbody to work on some new gopher daemon that doesn't
(???) reak, what gopher is philosophically and now technically.
(TN3) herefor, say, if your client understands what's going on when it's
(???) alking to say Gopher 2.x, it won't have any trouble understanding
(SND) ubclasses of plain text, like ascii, or UTF-8, no biggie, but if the
(SND) erver realizes the client is an older client it'd just convert the
(???) TF-8 to ascii on the fly, and then we could all agree on something
(???) ight?
(???) r is all of that just not possible? Understandingly, i have
(???) bsolutely no idea what I'm talking about, everyone is getting all
(???) orked up over some minor details. I don't see why a new (or existing)
(GIF) opher server daemon, that's tried and true to the way it was back in
(???) he early nineties can't, encompass a lot of these changes everyone is
(???) quating to what should happen or how these things should be treated,
(???) hen this improved server could handle all the new functionality
(???) veryone wants to see put into it, but if parsay an old client comes a
(???) ong, the new server just won't be able to "transcode" back down for
(???) hem. That way everybody is satisfied.
(???) att
(???) n Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 1:08 PM, Nuno J. Silva <nunojsilva@ist.utl.pt> wrote=
(???)
(???) "Jay Nemrow" <jnemrow@quix.us> writes:
(???)
(???) > On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 10:19 AM, Kyevan <kyevan@sinedev.org> wrote:
(???) >> What about older clients, though? Modern clients will probably handle
(???) >> UTF-8 at least well enough to not explode, but older clients might not.
(???) >> Generally, it seems safest to stick to the subset that is ASCII when
(???) >> reasonable, only using UTF-8 or such when it's actually needed. ... is =
(???)
(???) >> perfectly readable replacement for U+2026, even if it's not
(???) >> "typographically correct." On the other hand, if you're trying to post =
(???)
(???) >> text in, say, a mix of Arabic, and Klingon, go right ahead and use
(???) >> UTF-8.
(???)
(???) There are also these iso* charsets which just use 8 bit to encode the
(???) text, not allowing a greater collection of characters, and using those
(???) you wouldn't be able to mix charsets.
(???)
(???) For iso*, AFAIK, some sort of character detection, or configuration
(???) would be required on the client side (it is possible to do that getting
(???) the document language using gopher+ - and URLs pointing to the specific
(???) view (even if it is just one) would be required to autodetect when
(???) browsing a non-ASCII URL). utf8 will have to be supported, for the small
(???) (but not zero) scenarios in which two non-ASCII alphabets are mixed in
(???) the same text, and auto-detect would fail (unless a special language
(???) code is used for mixed-language documents, or if the client handles more
(???) than one non-english language (if it is allowed to specify more than one
(???) in the gopher+ attributes) as utf8).
(???)
(???) On the other hand, even if the choice was utf8 (so the documents would
(???) be ASCII or utf8), I'd keep iso* support, just in case (therefore my
(???) question is 'should we use the same sort of character encoding when
(???) publishing non-english documents? if yes, which one?' and not 'what
(???) should a client support?').
(???)
(???) What's the actual scenario? Is there any client which crashes due to
(???) utf8? Which clients are not able to render it correctly? And what about
(???) iso* charsets support?
(???)
(???) <snip/>
(???) > If we do a version of Gopher which is basically new (adding UTF-8 or
(???) > MIME or whatever), I think we should ask for and get a new port
(???) > assignment for it. If you wanted Goph08, send the request through a
(???) > Goph08 port number. Gopher request continue to go through port 70.
(???) > Just have your server listen on two ports instead of one, using the
(???) > old idea that if you are using a different protocol (essentially), you
(???) > should use a different port. (Crazy idea, I know.) I guess this gets
(???) > back to an old point, which is that a modern version of Gopher is
(???) > essentially a new protocol and should be treated as such. If you guys
(???) > want to change Gopher to "improve" it, it ceases to be Gopher.
(???) > "Updated" nostalgia is not nostalgia at all.
(???)
(???) Adding a new way to do the mime part would be a reason to make another
(???) version of the gopher protocol, or a protocol under a different name,
(???) but about utf8, it's not about gopher, it's about the way text is
(???) rendered by the client, not requiring any change in the protocol.
(???)
(???) --
(???) Nuno J. Silva (aka njsg)
(???) LEIC student at Instituto Superior T=E9cnico
(???) Lisbon, Portugal
(???) Homepage: http://njsg.no.sapo.pt/
(???) Gopherspace: gopher://sdf-eu.org/11/users/njsg
(???) Registered Linux User #402207 - http://counter.li.org
(???)
(???) -=3D-=3D-
(???) ``Now we'll have to kill you.''
(???) -- Linus Torvalds
(???)
(???)
(???)
(???)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Tue Aug 05 00:48:53 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
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(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,SPF_HELO_PASS,
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Tue, 05 Aug 2008 00:48:53 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Mon, 04 Aug 2008 17:41:41 -0500 (CDT)
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(???) for <gopher@complete.org>; Mon, 04 Aug 2008 14:57:39 -0700 (PDT)
(???) KIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
(???) d=gmail.com; s=gamma;
(???) h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to
(???) :subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type
(???) :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references;
(???) bh=omnLgmKevnEQDcNGgplvtawwBLlqeLODFthBwWgfX80=;
(???) b=V27dqsSFFhIshNfoO7CiH2b0xZUv+cf3XransD15pWDjo/vpfvD+lfbA5SxEgGHEqW
(???) 7wDI8MzfPPsxciJzmgn4mgYA8XssxVA1y+BQBS3s2EF9VaLd7Pj3zWoz79mHFNsQasWk
(???) /HC54yr9vW7iWJ2+xDFIODULvu8KkVKEHmZVk=
(???) omainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws;
(???) d=gmail.com; s=gamma;
(???) h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version
(???) :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition
(???) :references;
(???) b=sU6br0VMSRfibw/3Tjvu0rfvtjvwF8l89jIFMpt28SnkGC8pZpLoHsF0uMl3hb5Akt
(???) T9lcSXJhz+ORPY0S83BxhFpi/H0Aj+nwQ+d69Iv3FpJ1EIKVlqxS7cyFfJfuFdMkbfuz
(???) TL/R9lexVTBJCG/pwIRYiqYPSpV28zpKNcPKo=
(???) eceived: by 10.100.120.15 with SMTP id s15mr354625anc.150.1217887058937;
(???) Mon, 04 Aug 2008 14:57:38 -0700 (PDT)
(???) eceived: by 10.100.249.15 with HTTP; Mon, 4 Aug 2008 14:57:38 -0700 (PDT)
(???) essage-ID: <3c8abce30808041457j22d5ba01wa113b7f716072bba@mail.gmail.com>
(???) ate: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 16:57:38 -0500
(???) rom: "Matthew Holevinski" <eylusion@gmail.com>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <87d4koodpq.fsf@deschutes.local.lan>
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
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(???) eferences: <200808040431.m744VMeF023196@floodgap.com>
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Mon, 04 Aug 2008 17:41:41 -0500
(???) -archive-position: 2335
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(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
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(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
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(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Mon, 04 Aug 2008 17:42:24 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Gopherness
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 82
(???) ow about Versions? If http, went from 1.x 2.x 3.x 4.x etc. so on. Why
(???) ot gopher.
(IMG) think i understand the problem with the item types and mime subjects
(???) veryone is talking about, it appears as though if one server employs
(???) type of mime for file type differences a client used to item types
(???) ight get confused and vica versa, then everyone has discussed a
(???) yriad of ways to implement both or either features including others.
(???) ould we not worry about breaking old gopher protocol and we could do somet=
(HTM) ing
(???) ike releasing versions of a new gopher server, hopefully this
(???) ouldn't create bloatware
(???) ut what if say there was a new Gopher implementation that is fully compata=
(???) le
(???) ith the old standards, and we could call that version 1.x, and then
(???) lients that
(???) re compatible with all old standards would be 1.x compliant. Now, when som=
(???) one
(???) ould want to say release mimetypes instead of the itemtypes, all
(???) hose little additions
(???) ould be say Gopher 2.x, but here's the trick with the clients, I
(GIF) uess I supppose
(???) hen a client negotiates a connection with a gopher 2.x server and
t's only 1.x compatible(only a label), the server could send just a
(???) eeny tiny datapacket saying
(HTM) ey are you old skool or new skool, at which point if the client
(???) esponds i'm 1.x yo'
(???) he gopher server could either say, okay your too old for me come back
(???) hen you update, or some type of uber server script that rewrites it's
(DOC) ata in realtime, like, if the
(???) ntire gopher filesystem is in mimetypes and such, it will know better
(SND) ay when sending mime/mpeg or whatnot to be retrieve as itemtype 9 or
(???) hatever it is, so the older client would know how to interpret the
(DOC) ata.
(???) eems to me all a lot of these features, could be backwards
(???) ompatable, and I'd hate to
(SND) ee the size of the server software grow considerably in size, but
(???) ouldn't a new server software that just says Hey, I'm Gopher Server
(???) ide Software version 1x, I include all that is gopher+ and oldschool,
(???) hen get everbody to work on some new gopher daemon that doesn't
(???) reak, what gopher is philosophically and now technically.
(TN3) herefor, say, if your client understands what's going on when it's
(???) alking to say Gopher 2.x, it won't have any trouble understanding
(SND) ubclasses of plain text, like ascii, or UTF-8, no biggie, but if the
(SND) erver realizes the client is an older client it'd just convert the
(???) TF-8 to ascii on the fly, and then we could all agree on something
(???) ight?
(???) r is all of that just not possible? Understandingly, i have
(???) bsolutely no idea what I'm talking about, everyone is getting all
(???) orked up over some minor details. I don't see why a new (or existing)
(GIF) opher server daemon, that's tried and true to the way it was back in
(???) he early nineties can't, encompass a lot of these changes everyone is
(???) quating to what should happen or how these things should be treated,
(???) hen this improved server could handle all the new functionality
(???) veryone wants to see put into it, but if parsay an old client comes a
(???) ong, the new server just won't be able to "transcode" back down for
(???) hem. That way everybody is satisfied.
(???) att
(???) n Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 1:08 PM, Nuno J. Silva <nunojsilva@ist.utl.pt> wrote=
(???)
(???) "Jay Nemrow" <jnemrow@quix.us> writes:
(???)
(???) > On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 10:19 AM, Kyevan <kyevan@sinedev.org> wrote:
(???) >> What about older clients, though? Modern clients will probably handle
(???) >> UTF-8 at least well enough to not explode, but older clients might not.
(???) >> Generally, it seems safest to stick to the subset that is ASCII when
(???) >> reasonable, only using UTF-8 or such when it's actually needed. ... is =
(???)
(???) >> perfectly readable replacement for U+2026, even if it's not
(???) >> "typographically correct." On the other hand, if you're trying to post =
(???)
(???) >> text in, say, a mix of Arabic, and Klingon, go right ahead and use
(???) >> UTF-8.
(???)
(???) There are also these iso* charsets which just use 8 bit to encode the
(???) text, not allowing a greater collection of characters, and using those
(???) you wouldn't be able to mix charsets.
(???)
(???) For iso*, AFAIK, some sort of character detection, or configuration
(???) would be required on the client side (it is possible to do that getting
(???) the document language using gopher+ - and URLs pointing to the specific
(???) view (even if it is just one) would be required to autodetect when
(???) browsing a non-ASCII URL). utf8 will have to be supported, for the small
(???) (but not zero) scenarios in which two non-ASCII alphabets are mixed in
(???) the same text, and auto-detect would fail (unless a special language
(???) code is used for mixed-language documents, or if the client handles more
(???) than one non-english language (if it is allowed to specify more than one
(???) in the gopher+ attributes) as utf8).
(???)
(???) On the other hand, even if the choice was utf8 (so the documents would
(???) be ASCII or utf8), I'd keep iso* support, just in case (therefore my
(???) question is 'should we use the same sort of character encoding when
(???) publishing non-english documents? if yes, which one?' and not 'what
(???) should a client support?').
(???)
(???) What's the actual scenario? Is there any client which crashes due to
(???) utf8? Which clients are not able to render it correctly? And what about
(???) iso* charsets support?
(???)
(???) <snip/>
(???) > If we do a version of Gopher which is basically new (adding UTF-8 or
(???) > MIME or whatever), I think we should ask for and get a new port
(???) > assignment for it. If you wanted Goph08, send the request through a
(???) > Goph08 port number. Gopher request continue to go through port 70.
(???) > Just have your server listen on two ports instead of one, using the
(???) > old idea that if you are using a different protocol (essentially), you
(???) > should use a different port. (Crazy idea, I know.) I guess this gets
(???) > back to an old point, which is that a modern version of Gopher is
(???) > essentially a new protocol and should be treated as such. If you guys
(???) > want to change Gopher to "improve" it, it ceases to be Gopher.
(???) > "Updated" nostalgia is not nostalgia at all.
(???)
(???) Adding a new way to do the mime part would be a reason to make another
(???) version of the gopher protocol, or a protocol under a different name,
(???) but about utf8, it's not about gopher, it's about the way text is
(???) rendered by the client, not requiring any change in the protocol.
(???)
(???) --
(???) Nuno J. Silva (aka njsg)
(???) LEIC student at Instituto Superior T=E9cnico
(???) Lisbon, Portugal
(???) Homepage: http://njsg.no.sapo.pt/
(???) Gopherspace: gopher://sdf-eu.org/11/users/njsg
(???) Registered Linux User #402207 - http://counter.li.org
(???)
(???) -=3D-=3D-
(???) ``Now we'll have to kill you.''
(???) -- Linus Torvalds
(???)
(???)
(???)
(???)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Tue Aug 05 00:58:49 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
(???) elivery-date: Tue, 05 Aug 2008 00:58:49 +0200
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(???) rom: Kyevan <kyevan@sinedev.org>
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(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Fate of the Protocol (was Re: Gopherness)
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(???) re you offering to host a new list? Not everyone has the resources to
(DOC) o so, you know. And of course you wouldn't want to use port 70 to serve
(???) otgopher, that would be silly. The best idea seems to be to modify the
(???) opher protocol in non-backwards-compatible ways (adding headers of some
(SND) ort to ever resource grab seems to be the big change every other desire
(???) elies on) and then serve it on a different port, as well as old-style
(???) opher on port 70 - in a similar way to how pygopherd currently serves
(HTM) ttp on port 80 and gopher on port 70.
(TN3) he real reason to do this is only to try to hit a middle ground between
(HTM) ttp and gopher, really. HTTP is huge, unwieldy, and powerful, while
(GIF) opher is small, simple, and arguably less powerful. Trying to hit a
(???) alance so we can handle some more complex things (like download
(PNG) rogress indicators and passing files to the right program on the client
(SND) ide) while still keeping things simple enough that cheap, simple (or
(???) ld) hardware is still all you need to get the basic features out of it.
(IMG) suppose there's also the gopher+ route of adding extra fields (which
(???) ctually might be a better option), but is there any way to do that when
(???) ou send a magic string? It'd be really nice if a client didn't have to
(???) now the item type for something before it requested it, but if we keep
(SND) erving on port 70, we obviously have to send that information in such a
(???) ay that it doesn't confuse old clients.
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Tue Aug 05 00:58:56 2008
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(???) ate: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 17:55:01 -0500
(???) rom: Kyevan <kyevan@sinedev.org>
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(???) eferences: <e78c27470808041354m7fd4013dhe83218f241abdd70@mail.gmail.com> <f7cf70a70808041420s4e43d3a7oae671e61b6683c54@mail.gmail.com>
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(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Fate of the Protocol (was Re: Gopherness)
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(???) re you offering to host a new list? Not everyone has the resources to
(DOC) o so, you know. And of course you wouldn't want to use port 70 to serve
(???) otgopher, that would be silly. The best idea seems to be to modify the
(???) opher protocol in non-backwards-compatible ways (adding headers of some
(SND) ort to ever resource grab seems to be the big change every other desire
(???) elies on) and then serve it on a different port, as well as old-style
(???) opher on port 70 - in a similar way to how pygopherd currently serves
(HTM) ttp on port 80 and gopher on port 70.
(TN3) he real reason to do this is only to try to hit a middle ground between
(HTM) ttp and gopher, really. HTTP is huge, unwieldy, and powerful, while
(GIF) opher is small, simple, and arguably less powerful. Trying to hit a
(???) alance so we can handle some more complex things (like download
(PNG) rogress indicators and passing files to the right program on the client
(SND) ide) while still keeping things simple enough that cheap, simple (or
(???) ld) hardware is still all you need to get the basic features out of it.
(IMG) suppose there's also the gopher+ route of adding extra fields (which
(???) ctually might be a better option), but is there any way to do that when
(???) ou send a magic string? It'd be really nice if a client didn't have to
(???) now the item type for something before it requested it, but if we keep
(SND) erving on port 70, we obviously have to send that information in such a
(???) ay that it doesn't confuse old clients.
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Tue Aug 05 02:58:11 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
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(???) rom: nunojsilva@ist.utl.pt (Nuno J. Silva)
(???) ate: Tue, 05 Aug 2008 01:53:14 +0100
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(???) eferences: <200808040431.m744VMeF023196@floodgap.com> <48972C0E.2000604@sinedev.org> <e78c27470808041005h3db3b248p930ad3459b3dad7@mail.gmail.com> <87d4koodpq.fsf@deschutes.local.lan> <3c8abce30808041457j22d5ba01wa113b7f716072bba@mail.gmail.com>
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(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Gopherness
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(???) Matthew Holevinski" <eylusion@gmail.com>
(???) rites:
(???) On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 1:08 PM, Nuno J. Silva
(???) <nunojsilva@ist.utl.pt> wrote:
(???)
(???) > "Jay Nemrow" <jnemrow@quix.us> writes:
(???) >
(???) snip/>
(???) >> If we do a version of Gopher which is basically new (adding UTF-8 or
(???) >> MIME or whatever), I think we should ask for and get a new port
(???) >> assignment for it. If you wanted Goph08, send the request through a
(???) >> Goph08 port number. Gopher request continue to go through port 70.
(???) >> Just have your server listen on two ports instead of one, using the
(???) >> old idea that if you are using a different protocol (essentially), you
(???) >> should use a different port. (Crazy idea, I know.) I guess this gets
(???) >> back to an old point, which is that a modern version of Gopher is
(???) >> essentially a new protocol and should be treated as such. If you guys
(???) >> want to change Gopher to "improve" it, it ceases to be Gopher.
(???) >> "Updated" nostalgia is not nostalgia at all.
(???) >
(???) > Adding a new way to do the mime part would be a reason to make another
(???) > version of the gopher protocol, or a protocol under a different name,
(???) > but about utf8, it's not about gopher, it's about the way text is
(???) > rendered by the client, not requiring any change in the protocol.
(???)
(???) How about Versions? If http, went from 1.x 2.x 3.x 4.x etc. so on. Why
(???) not gopher.
(???)
(???) I think i understand the problem with the item types and mime subjects
(???) everyone is talking about, it appears as though if one server employs
(???) a type of mime for file type differences a client used to item types
(???) might get confused and vica versa, then everyone has discussed a
(???) myriad of ways to implement both or either features including others.
(???)
(???) Could we not worry about breaking old gopher protocol and we could do
(???) somet= hing like releasing versions of a new gopher server, hopefully
(???) this wouldn't create bloatware but what if say there was a new Gopher
(???) implementation that is fully compata= ble with the old standards, and
(???) we could call that version 1.x, and then clients that are compatible
(???) with all old standards would be 1.x compliant. Now, when som= eone
(???) would want to say release mimetypes instead of the itemtypes, all
(???) those little additions could be say Gopher 2.x, but here's the trick
(???) with the clients, I
(???) imetypes are already available in what you call Gopher 1.x.
(???) guess I supppose when a client negotiates a connection with a gopher
(???) 2.x server and it's only 1.x compatible(only a label), the server
(???) could send just a teeny tiny datapacket saying hey are you old skool
(???) or new skool, at which point if the client responds i'm 1.x yo' the
(???) gopher server could either say, okay your too old for me come back
(???) when you update, or some type of uber server script that rewrites it's
(IMG) f changes need to be made, I'd do it in the same way it was done with
(GIF) opher+, zero or little tweaking is needed to make old clients
(???) ompatible.
(???) transaction on 'which protocol version are you?' is not defined in
(???) gopher0', therefore such a thing would have to be part of a new,
(DOC) ifferent protocol.
(???) data in realtime, like, if the entire gopher filesystem is in
(???) mimetypes and such, it will know better say when sending mime/mpeg or
(???) whatnot to be retrieve as itemtype 9 or whatever it is, so the older
(???) client would know how to interpret the data.
(???)
(???) Seems to me all a lot of these features, could be backwards
(???) compatable, and I'd hate to see the size of the server software grow
(???) considerably in size, but wouldn't a new server software that just
(???) says Hey, I'm Gopher Server Side Software version 1x, I include all
(???) that is gopher+ and oldschool, then get everbody to work on some new
(???) gopher daemon that doesn't break, what gopher is philosophically and
(???) now technically.
(???)
(???) Therefor, say, if your client understands what's going on when it's
(???) talking to say Gopher 2.x, it won't have any trouble understanding
(???) subclasses of plain text, like ascii, or UTF-8, no biggie, but if the
(???) server realizes the client is an older client it'd just convert the
(???) UTF-8 to ascii on the fly, and then we could all agree on something
(???) right?
(IMG) f a text document is written using ASCII only, that's readable as
(???) SCII and also as utf8 and iso 8859 (those charsets include the ASCII
(???) haracters, which are assigned exactly to the same values).
(???) Or is all of that just not possible? Understandingly, i have
(???) absolutely no idea what I'm talking about, everyone is getting all
(???) worked up over some minor details. I don't see why a new (or existing)
(???) gopher server daemon, that's tried and true to the way it was back in
(???) the early nineties can't, encompass a lot of these changes everyone is
(???) equating to what should happen or how these things should be treated,
(???) when this improved server could handle all the new functionality
(???) everyone wants to see put into it, but if parsay an old client comes a
(???) long, the new server just won't be able to "transcode" back down for
(???) them. That way everybody is satisfied.
(???)
(???) Matt
(???) e have a protocol, gopher, rfc1436, and an extension, gopher+[1]. Even
f there are clients and servers which do not support gopher+,it works
(???) ell because gopher+ was implemented nicely in top of gopher.
(???) 1] gopher://VE131.jumpjet.info/00%5cBegin_Here%5cReferences%5cGopher%2b.txt
(IMG) f somebody wants something to be done with gopher, there's nothing
(???) etter than discussing it, not only to know what would be the best way
(???) o implement that in top of gopher without breaking anything, but also
(???) o know if it is really needed to implement it, if it is possible to do
(???) hat with gopher/gopher+. And IMHO this mailing list is a place to
(DOC) iscuss this sort of stuff - at least at an initial stage. If the
(???) eature really requires a new protocol to be designed, then the design
(SND) hould be discussed elsewhere.
(IMG) f some feature is not achievable using the existing gopher protocol
(???) and gopher+), or if using it (even if through gopher+) breaks things
(???) as in, prevents access to the core information provided by the
(SND) elector) for users of older gopher clients, a new protocol should be
(???) onsidered only if the feature is really needed - it might be better to
(DOC) rop it and stay with plain gopher+.
(???) ometimes, a feature can be added to gopher+, let's say someone wants
(GIF) opher users to be able to know the number of pages of a postscript
(DOC) ocument, the only thing required at the server side is to add that
nformation to the gopher+ attributes (and of course the server needs to
(???) e a gopher+ one). (Client-side handling could not allow the user to see
(???) hat data, but it's more a gopher+ client design choice - the client
(???) ight allow the user to hit a key and get a screen with the gopher+
(???) ttributes for the specified selector, or the client can forbid direct
(???) ccess to that information, and use internally only the attributes it
(???) nows how to handle.)
(???) -
(???) uno J. Silva (aka njsg)
(???) EIC student at Instituto Superior Técnico
(???) isbon, Portugal
(???) omepage: http://njsg.no.sapo.pt/
(???) opherspace: gopher://sdf-eu.org/11/users/njsg
(???) egistered Linux User #402207 - http://counter.li.org
(???) =-=-
(???) `You know you have been raytracing too long when ...
(???) ... You've been asked how you did that thing you did, by the autor of
(???) the raytracer you used to do it.''
(???) -- Alex McLeod
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Tue Aug 05 02:58:38 2008
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(???) eferences: <200808040431.m744VMeF023196@floodgap.com> <48972C0E.2000604@sinedev.org> <e78c27470808041005h3db3b248p930ad3459b3dad7@mail.gmail.com> <87d4koodpq.fsf@deschutes.local.lan> <3c8abce30808041457j22d5ba01wa113b7f716072bba@mail.gmail.com>
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(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Gopherness
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(???) Matthew Holevinski" <eylusion@gmail.com>
(???) rites:
(???) On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 1:08 PM, Nuno J. Silva
(???) <nunojsilva@ist.utl.pt> wrote:
(???)
(???) > "Jay Nemrow" <jnemrow@quix.us> writes:
(???) >
(???) snip/>
(???) >> If we do a version of Gopher which is basically new (adding UTF-8 or
(???) >> MIME or whatever), I think we should ask for and get a new port
(???) >> assignment for it. If you wanted Goph08, send the request through a
(???) >> Goph08 port number. Gopher request continue to go through port 70.
(???) >> Just have your server listen on two ports instead of one, using the
(???) >> old idea that if you are using a different protocol (essentially), you
(???) >> should use a different port. (Crazy idea, I know.) I guess this gets
(???) >> back to an old point, which is that a modern version of Gopher is
(???) >> essentially a new protocol and should be treated as such. If you guys
(???) >> want to change Gopher to "improve" it, it ceases to be Gopher.
(???) >> "Updated" nostalgia is not nostalgia at all.
(???) >
(???) > Adding a new way to do the mime part would be a reason to make another
(???) > version of the gopher protocol, or a protocol under a different name,
(???) > but about utf8, it's not about gopher, it's about the way text is
(???) > rendered by the client, not requiring any change in the protocol.
(???)
(???) How about Versions? If http, went from 1.x 2.x 3.x 4.x etc. so on. Why
(???) not gopher.
(???)
(???) I think i understand the problem with the item types and mime subjects
(???) everyone is talking about, it appears as though if one server employs
(???) a type of mime for file type differences a client used to item types
(???) might get confused and vica versa, then everyone has discussed a
(???) myriad of ways to implement both or either features including others.
(???)
(???) Could we not worry about breaking old gopher protocol and we could do
(???) somet= hing like releasing versions of a new gopher server, hopefully
(???) this wouldn't create bloatware but what if say there was a new Gopher
(???) implementation that is fully compata= ble with the old standards, and
(???) we could call that version 1.x, and then clients that are compatible
(???) with all old standards would be 1.x compliant. Now, when som= eone
(???) would want to say release mimetypes instead of the itemtypes, all
(???) those little additions could be say Gopher 2.x, but here's the trick
(???) with the clients, I
(???) imetypes are already available in what you call Gopher 1.x.
(???) guess I supppose when a client negotiates a connection with a gopher
(???) 2.x server and it's only 1.x compatible(only a label), the server
(???) could send just a teeny tiny datapacket saying hey are you old skool
(???) or new skool, at which point if the client responds i'm 1.x yo' the
(???) gopher server could either say, okay your too old for me come back
(???) when you update, or some type of uber server script that rewrites it's
(IMG) f changes need to be made, I'd do it in the same way it was done with
(GIF) opher+, zero or little tweaking is needed to make old clients
(???) ompatible.
(???) transaction on 'which protocol version are you?' is not defined in
(???) gopher0', therefore such a thing would have to be part of a new,
(DOC) ifferent protocol.
(???) data in realtime, like, if the entire gopher filesystem is in
(???) mimetypes and such, it will know better say when sending mime/mpeg or
(???) whatnot to be retrieve as itemtype 9 or whatever it is, so the older
(???) client would know how to interpret the data.
(???)
(???) Seems to me all a lot of these features, could be backwards
(???) compatable, and I'd hate to see the size of the server software grow
(???) considerably in size, but wouldn't a new server software that just
(???) says Hey, I'm Gopher Server Side Software version 1x, I include all
(???) that is gopher+ and oldschool, then get everbody to work on some new
(???) gopher daemon that doesn't break, what gopher is philosophically and
(???) now technically.
(???)
(???) Therefor, say, if your client understands what's going on when it's
(???) talking to say Gopher 2.x, it won't have any trouble understanding
(???) subclasses of plain text, like ascii, or UTF-8, no biggie, but if the
(???) server realizes the client is an older client it'd just convert the
(???) UTF-8 to ascii on the fly, and then we could all agree on something
(???) right?
(IMG) f a text document is written using ASCII only, that's readable as
(???) SCII and also as utf8 and iso 8859 (those charsets include the ASCII
(???) haracters, which are assigned exactly to the same values).
(???) Or is all of that just not possible? Understandingly, i have
(???) absolutely no idea what I'm talking about, everyone is getting all
(???) worked up over some minor details. I don't see why a new (or existing)
(???) gopher server daemon, that's tried and true to the way it was back in
(???) the early nineties can't, encompass a lot of these changes everyone is
(???) equating to what should happen or how these things should be treated,
(???) when this improved server could handle all the new functionality
(???) everyone wants to see put into it, but if parsay an old client comes a
(???) long, the new server just won't be able to "transcode" back down for
(???) them. That way everybody is satisfied.
(???)
(???) Matt
(???) e have a protocol, gopher, rfc1436, and an extension, gopher+[1]. Even
f there are clients and servers which do not support gopher+,it works
(???) ell because gopher+ was implemented nicely in top of gopher.
(???) 1] gopher://VE131.jumpjet.info/00%5cBegin_Here%5cReferences%5cGopher%2b.txt
(IMG) f somebody wants something to be done with gopher, there's nothing
(???) etter than discussing it, not only to know what would be the best way
(???) o implement that in top of gopher without breaking anything, but also
(???) o know if it is really needed to implement it, if it is possible to do
(???) hat with gopher/gopher+. And IMHO this mailing list is a place to
(DOC) iscuss this sort of stuff - at least at an initial stage. If the
(???) eature really requires a new protocol to be designed, then the design
(SND) hould be discussed elsewhere.
(IMG) f some feature is not achievable using the existing gopher protocol
(???) and gopher+), or if using it (even if through gopher+) breaks things
(???) as in, prevents access to the core information provided by the
(SND) elector) for users of older gopher clients, a new protocol should be
(???) onsidered only if the feature is really needed - it might be better to
(DOC) rop it and stay with plain gopher+.
(???) ometimes, a feature can be added to gopher+, let's say someone wants
(GIF) opher users to be able to know the number of pages of a postscript
(DOC) ocument, the only thing required at the server side is to add that
nformation to the gopher+ attributes (and of course the server needs to
(???) e a gopher+ one). (Client-side handling could not allow the user to see
(???) hat data, but it's more a gopher+ client design choice - the client
(???) ight allow the user to hit a key and get a screen with the gopher+
(???) ttributes for the specified selector, or the client can forbid direct
(???) ccess to that information, and use internally only the attributes it
(???) nows how to handle.)
(???) -
(???) uno J. Silva (aka njsg)
(???) EIC student at Instituto Superior Técnico
(???) isbon, Portugal
(???) omepage: http://njsg.no.sapo.pt/
(???) opherspace: gopher://sdf-eu.org/11/users/njsg
(???) egistered Linux User #402207 - http://counter.li.org
(???) =-=-
(???) `You know you have been raytracing too long when ...
(???) ... You've been asked how you did that thing you did, by the autor of
(???) the raytracer you used to do it.''
(???) -- Alex McLeod
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Tue Aug 05 04:10:31 2008
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(???) rom: Cameron Kaiser <spectre@floodgap.com>
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(IMG) n-Reply-To: <20080804081251.GA14635@port70.net> from Mate Nagy at "Aug 4, 8 10:12:51 am"
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
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(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Item Type Suggestions
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
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(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
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(???) On Sun, Aug 03, 2008 at 09:45:03PM -0700, Cameron Kaiser wrote:
(???) > What text do you have indexed? I'd rather not have Veronica talking to
(???) > anything but its own internal data sources (nothing personal, I'm just
(???) > paranoid like that), but I'd love to see another search solution on the
(???) > scene.
(???) HyperEstraier isn't an internet service, it's a program you can install
(???) and use. Runs completely locally, sends no info to other parties etc
(???) etc. "Talking to it" would probably consist of using its command line
(???) interface, or perhaps the API that the builtin HTTP crawler uses (it
(???) might be necessary to look into the source code of that).
(???) h, I see. I might consider that then in the future. Thanks for the suggestion.
(???) -
(???) ----------------------------------- personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
(???) Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser@floodgap.com
(???) - "The ants are my friends/They're blowing in the wind" ----------------------
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Tue Aug 05 04:10:47 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
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(???) eceived: (from spectre@localhost)
(???) rom: Cameron Kaiser <spectre@floodgap.com>
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(IMG) n-Reply-To: <20080804081251.GA14635@port70.net> from Mate Nagy at "Aug 4, 8 10:12:51 am"
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
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(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Item Type Suggestions
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
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(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
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(???) On Sun, Aug 03, 2008 at 09:45:03PM -0700, Cameron Kaiser wrote:
(???) > What text do you have indexed? I'd rather not have Veronica talking to
(???) > anything but its own internal data sources (nothing personal, I'm just
(???) > paranoid like that), but I'd love to see another search solution on the
(???) > scene.
(???) HyperEstraier isn't an internet service, it's a program you can install
(???) and use. Runs completely locally, sends no info to other parties etc
(???) etc. "Talking to it" would probably consist of using its command line
(???) interface, or perhaps the API that the builtin HTTP crawler uses (it
(???) might be necessary to look into the source code of that).
(???) h, I see. I might consider that then in the future. Thanks for the suggestion.
(???) -
(???) ----------------------------------- personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
(???) Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser@floodgap.com
(???) - "The ants are my friends/They're blowing in the wind" ----------------------
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Tue Aug 05 04:14:07 2008
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(???) rom: Cameron Kaiser <spectre@floodgap.com>
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(IMG) n-Reply-To: <874p60rcv1.fsf@deschutes.local.lan> from "Nuno J. Silva" at "Aug 4, 8 04:58:26 pm"
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
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(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Item Type Suggestions
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(???) tatus: O
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(???) -UID: 89
(???) We already have an URL scheme which supports mime (the gopher+ views),
(???) but that does not work with old clients:
(???) quoting rfc1738:
(???)
(???) > A Gopher URL takes the form:
(???) >
(???) > gopher://<host>:<port>/<gopher-path>
(???) >
(???) > where <gopher-path> is one of
(???) >
(???) > <gophertype><selector>
(???) > <gophertype><selector>%09<search>
(???) > <gophertype><selector>%09<search>%09<gopher+_string>
(???)
(???)
(???) An url for a jpeg image made available as gophertype 9 with gopher+
(???) would be (e.g., if the language is set as En_Us):
(???)
(???) gopher://server/9blablabla%09%09+image/jpeg%20En_Us
(???)
(???) But this needs some magic to work - the client has to remove the extra
(???) tab, as there's no search string, because the server does not expect the
(???) search field to be sent when it is empty.
(???) eah, about that. I'm antsy about using %09 in URLs -- not because it
(???) on't work, and not because it's not RFC, but because I can see well-meaning
(???) rowser authors and the like throwing exceptions for a 'control character
n a URL ZOMG hack alert!!1!'. I have seen this kind of idiocy on a systemic
(???) evel. Don't think it wouldn't happen. Srsly. :)
(???) es, UTF-8 requires encoding *but* it has its high-bit set, *and* it has
(???) he weight of "everyone's using it," whereas I suspect there are very, very
(???) ew non-pathologic uses of characters < %20 in URLs in practice. We don't
(???) ven use it now for gopher; the convention has been '?' as a separator (I
(DOC) on't really like that but there it is).
(???) -
(???) ----------------------------------- personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
(???) Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser@floodgap.com
(???) - Never say never again. -----------------------------------------------------
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Tue Aug 05 04:14:28 2008
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(IMG) n-Reply-To: <874p60rcv1.fsf@deschutes.local.lan> from "Nuno J. Silva" at "Aug 4, 8 04:58:26 pm"
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
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(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Mon, 04 Aug 2008 21:05:08 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Item Type Suggestions
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 90
(???) We already have an URL scheme which supports mime (the gopher+ views),
(???) but that does not work with old clients:
(???) quoting rfc1738:
(???)
(???) > A Gopher URL takes the form:
(???) >
(???) > gopher://<host>:<port>/<gopher-path>
(???) >
(???) > where <gopher-path> is one of
(???) >
(???) > <gophertype><selector>
(???) > <gophertype><selector>%09<search>
(???) > <gophertype><selector>%09<search>%09<gopher+_string>
(???)
(???)
(???) An url for a jpeg image made available as gophertype 9 with gopher+
(???) would be (e.g., if the language is set as En_Us):
(???)
(???) gopher://server/9blablabla%09%09+image/jpeg%20En_Us
(???)
(???) But this needs some magic to work - the client has to remove the extra
(???) tab, as there's no search string, because the server does not expect the
(???) search field to be sent when it is empty.
(???) eah, about that. I'm antsy about using %09 in URLs -- not because it
(???) on't work, and not because it's not RFC, but because I can see well-meaning
(???) rowser authors and the like throwing exceptions for a 'control character
n a URL ZOMG hack alert!!1!'. I have seen this kind of idiocy on a systemic
(???) evel. Don't think it wouldn't happen. Srsly. :)
(???) es, UTF-8 requires encoding *but* it has its high-bit set, *and* it has
(???) he weight of "everyone's using it," whereas I suspect there are very, very
(???) ew non-pathologic uses of characters < %20 in URLs in practice. We don't
(???) ven use it now for gopher; the convention has been '?' as a separator (I
(DOC) on't really like that but there it is).
(???) -
(???) ----------------------------------- personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
(???) Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser@floodgap.com
(???) - Never say never again. -----------------------------------------------------
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Tue Aug 05 06:04:14 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
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(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,DKIM_SIGNED,SPF_HELO_PASS,
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
(???) elivery-date: Tue, 05 Aug 2008 06:04:14 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Mon, 04 Aug 2008 23:00:29 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from fk-out-0910.google.com ([209.85.128.184])
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(???) KIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
(???) d=gmail.com; s=gamma;
(???) h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to
(???) :subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type
(???) :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references;
(???) bh=qdp4mFIo5zgUpd1Tl7uml+6Yhj2pvdoOBQ9LLinYHTw=;
(???) b=XxHbmNIZhRrs4DzKSibxpKtOIvrhNd6NGTfhDz+BMrRzZXTXnkMBQeeQ4y8m0elOme
(???) VYI+huD5eJXwG/51rljW+KwMB6I+pcAqkfbymb95oAfXrQDyd9QdoC5VRK3R+I3R63WW
(???) q9eUM6NBK5ieP/dXQ8xx51m/CX6SseVdZRcmc=
(???) omainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws;
(???) d=gmail.com; s=gamma;
(???) h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version
(???) :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition
(???) :references;
(???) b=uUYGyiRDG6ENF+E/oWAy5tlwmZzCCrFxLq94MqTeLmQ11Pb+WPQC/opiEBUl8T1XXQ
(???) 3ROSSY6AqhpO42n3sNCrQEpw1yKIhraCl5+YKKn4RlP1iF29tq1JGdIb6XJWPwwQ5Gym
(???) WvUWUQ0O50AVgucl1SgYwBasndfL8RuhT3btM=
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(???) ate: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 23:35:13 -0400
(???) rom: "Avery M." <averym@gmail.com>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <489788C5.4030001@sinedev.org>
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(???) ontent-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
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(???) eferences: <e78c27470808041354m7fd4013dhe83218f241abdd70@mail.gmail.com>
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Mon, 04 Aug 2008 23:00:29 -0500
(???) -archive-position: 2340
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(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: averym@gmail.com
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Mon, 04 Aug 2008 23:01:26 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Fate of the Protocol (was Re: Gopherness)
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 91
(???) n Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 6:55 PM, Kyevan <kyevan@sinedev.org> wrote:
(???) Are you offering to host a new list? Not everyone has the resources to
(???) do so, you know.
(???) ure, here you go.
(HTM) ttp://lists.shii.org/listinfo.cgi/heffalump-shii.org
(TN3) he software ought to have e-mailed the password to you. Let me know
f it didn't.
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Tue Aug 05 06:04:35 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
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(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,DKIM_SIGNED,SPF_HELO_PASS,
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Tue, 05 Aug 2008 06:04:35 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Mon, 04 Aug 2008 23:00:29 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from fk-out-0910.google.com ([209.85.128.184])
(???) eceived: by fk-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id 18so2032220fks.2
(???) for <gopher@complete.org>; Mon, 04 Aug 2008 20:35:13 -0700 (PDT)
(???) KIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
(???) d=gmail.com; s=gamma;
(???) h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to
(???) :subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type
(???) :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references;
(???) bh=qdp4mFIo5zgUpd1Tl7uml+6Yhj2pvdoOBQ9LLinYHTw=;
(???) b=XxHbmNIZhRrs4DzKSibxpKtOIvrhNd6NGTfhDz+BMrRzZXTXnkMBQeeQ4y8m0elOme
(???) VYI+huD5eJXwG/51rljW+KwMB6I+pcAqkfbymb95oAfXrQDyd9QdoC5VRK3R+I3R63WW
(???) q9eUM6NBK5ieP/dXQ8xx51m/CX6SseVdZRcmc=
(???) omainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws;
(???) d=gmail.com; s=gamma;
(???) h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version
(???) :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition
(???) :references;
(???) b=uUYGyiRDG6ENF+E/oWAy5tlwmZzCCrFxLq94MqTeLmQ11Pb+WPQC/opiEBUl8T1XXQ
(???) 3ROSSY6AqhpO42n3sNCrQEpw1yKIhraCl5+YKKn4RlP1iF29tq1JGdIb6XJWPwwQ5Gym
(???) WvUWUQ0O50AVgucl1SgYwBasndfL8RuhT3btM=
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(???) ate: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 23:35:13 -0400
(???) rom: "Avery M." <averym@gmail.com>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <489788C5.4030001@sinedev.org>
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(???) ontent-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
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(???) eferences: <e78c27470808041354m7fd4013dhe83218f241abdd70@mail.gmail.com>
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Mon, 04 Aug 2008 23:00:29 -0500
(???) -archive-position: 2340
(???) -ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: averym@gmail.com
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Mon, 04 Aug 2008 23:01:26 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Fate of the Protocol (was Re: Gopherness)
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 92
(???) n Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 6:55 PM, Kyevan <kyevan@sinedev.org> wrote:
(???) Are you offering to host a new list? Not everyone has the resources to
(???) do so, you know.
(???) ure, here you go.
(HTM) ttp://lists.shii.org/listinfo.cgi/heffalump-shii.org
(TN3) he software ought to have e-mailed the password to you. Let me know
f it didn't.
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Tue Aug 05 17:55:02 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
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(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=0.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
(???) elivery-date: Tue, 05 Aug 2008 17:55:02 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Tue, 05 Aug 2008 10:43:53 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from nf-out-0910.google.com ([64.233.182.190])
(???) eceived: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id b2so871463nfb.12
(???) for <gopher@complete.org>; Tue, 05 Aug 2008 08:43:48 -0700 (PDT)
(???) eceived: by 10.210.92.11 with SMTP id p11mr1093843ebb.175.1217951027899;
(???) Tue, 05 Aug 2008 08:43:47 -0700 (PDT)
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(???) essage-ID: <e78c27470808050843t3059e554y235fb9e4348fb767@mail.gmail.com>
(???) ate: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 09:43:47 -0600
(???) rom: "Jay Nemrow" <jnemrow@quix.us>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <f7cf70a70808041420s4e43d3a7oae671e61b6683c54@mail.gmail.com>
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
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(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
(???) ontent-Disposition: inline
(???) eferences: <e78c27470808041354m7fd4013dhe83218f241abdd70@mail.gmail.com>
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Tue, 05 Aug 2008 10:43:52 -0500
(???) -archive-position: 2341
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(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: jnemrow@quix.us
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Tue, 05 Aug 2008 10:44:02 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Fate of the Protocol (was Re: Gopherness)
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 93
(???) n Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 3:20 PM, Avery M. <averym@gmail.com> wrote:
(???) On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 4:54 PM, Jay Nemrow <jnemrow@quix.us> wrote:
(???) > Actually, I have to disagree with the fate of the RFC. If those who
(???) > want to change the protocol insist on using port 70 and "obsolete" the
(???) > RFC through creating a replacement, Gopher will essentially disappear
(???) > as an established service.
(???)
(???) Not true. I will simply remove all links to any server using a
(???) different protocol. While using port 70 to serve a different protocol
(???) is rude and violates widely observed RFC decorum, it would only take a
(???) minute or two to remove links to innovative servers; using this list
(???) to discuss innovations is even worse because it clogs up my inbox. If
(IMG) don't mind the innovations as long as they don't break old clients.
(IMG) plan on running a vanilla gopher0 server as long as I have resources
(???) o do so, so as long as new clients can still talk gopher0, I could
(???) are less about the rest.
(???) anyone insists on discussing this here and refuses to create a new
(???) list, please let me know now so I can add you to my spam filter.
(???) s for the discussions, if we are not discussing innovations, what on
(???) arth would we be discussing on a gopher list? This would be as dead
(???) s the gopher newsgroup often is. Sounds as if you would like a
(???) ery-low-volume list, so you might consider following the newsgroup
nstead of this mailing list.
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Tue Aug 05 17:55:28 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=0.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Tue, 05 Aug 2008 17:55:28 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Tue, 05 Aug 2008 10:43:53 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from nf-out-0910.google.com ([64.233.182.190])
(???) eceived: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id b2so871463nfb.12
(???) for <gopher@complete.org>; Tue, 05 Aug 2008 08:43:48 -0700 (PDT)
(???) eceived: by 10.210.92.11 with SMTP id p11mr1093843ebb.175.1217951027899;
(???) Tue, 05 Aug 2008 08:43:47 -0700 (PDT)
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(???) essage-ID: <e78c27470808050843t3059e554y235fb9e4348fb767@mail.gmail.com>
(???) ate: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 09:43:47 -0600
(???) rom: "Jay Nemrow" <jnemrow@quix.us>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <f7cf70a70808041420s4e43d3a7oae671e61b6683c54@mail.gmail.com>
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(???) ontent-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
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(???) eferences: <e78c27470808041354m7fd4013dhe83218f241abdd70@mail.gmail.com>
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Tue, 05 Aug 2008 10:43:52 -0500
(???) -archive-position: 2341
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(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: jnemrow@quix.us
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Tue, 05 Aug 2008 10:44:02 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Fate of the Protocol (was Re: Gopherness)
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 94
(???) n Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 3:20 PM, Avery M. <averym@gmail.com> wrote:
(???) On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 4:54 PM, Jay Nemrow <jnemrow@quix.us> wrote:
(???) > Actually, I have to disagree with the fate of the RFC. If those who
(???) > want to change the protocol insist on using port 70 and "obsolete" the
(???) > RFC through creating a replacement, Gopher will essentially disappear
(???) > as an established service.
(???)
(???) Not true. I will simply remove all links to any server using a
(???) different protocol. While using port 70 to serve a different protocol
(???) is rude and violates widely observed RFC decorum, it would only take a
(???) minute or two to remove links to innovative servers; using this list
(???) to discuss innovations is even worse because it clogs up my inbox. If
(IMG) don't mind the innovations as long as they don't break old clients.
(IMG) plan on running a vanilla gopher0 server as long as I have resources
(???) o do so, so as long as new clients can still talk gopher0, I could
(???) are less about the rest.
(???) anyone insists on discussing this here and refuses to create a new
(???) list, please let me know now so I can add you to my spam filter.
(???) s for the discussions, if we are not discussing innovations, what on
(???) arth would we be discussing on a gopher list? This would be as dead
(???) s the gopher newsgroup often is. Sounds as if you would like a
(???) ery-low-volume list, so you might consider following the newsgroup
nstead of this mailing list.
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Tue Aug 05 18:29:06 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=0.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
(???) elivery-date: Tue, 05 Aug 2008 18:29:06 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Tue, 05 Aug 2008 11:23:28 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from nf-out-0910.google.com ([64.233.182.190])
(???) eceived: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id b2so880304nfb.12
(???) for <gopher@complete.org>; Tue, 05 Aug 2008 09:23:23 -0700 (PDT)
(???) eceived: by 10.210.86.10 with SMTP id j10mr1193045ebb.25.1217953403644;
(???) Tue, 05 Aug 2008 09:23:23 -0700 (PDT)
(???) eceived: by 10.210.104.19 with HTTP; Tue, 5 Aug 2008 09:23:23 -0700 (PDT)
(???) essage-ID: <e78c27470808050923i2dfb2c5re316f543bfc7496d@mail.gmail.com>
(???) ate: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 10:23:23 -0600
(???) rom: "Jay Nemrow" <jnemrow@quix.us>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <e78c27470808041354m7fd4013dhe83218f241abdd70@mail.gmail.com>
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(???) ontent-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
(???) ontent-Disposition: inline
(???) eferences: <e78c27470808041354m7fd4013dhe83218f241abdd70@mail.gmail.com>
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Tue, 05 Aug 2008 11:23:28 -0500
(???) -archive-position: 2342
(???) -ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: jnemrow@quix.us
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Tue, 05 Aug 2008 11:23:38 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Fate of the Protocol (was Re: Gopherness)
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 95
(IMG) 'll tell you a dirty little secret - Gopher is a zombie. It died
(???) bout fifteen years ago and a handful of people either act like it is
(SND) till alive or chose to reanimate it for some reason. I think we
(SND) hould all have our heads examined for spending any time at all
(???) ighting about a dead protocol. It is like fighting over Latin
(SND) entence structure - who really cares?
(???) ere's my idea. I suggest that we start a huge turf war, create all
(???) inds of wierd servers and clients that have no chance of talking to
(???) ach other, and then use this mail list to abuse everyone that dares
(SND) ubscribe. I think it would be fun! Wait....
(IMG) like Floodgap, httpi, buckd, the web proxy, and OverbiteFF! I think
(???) ameron has come up with some cool stuff and that, by association,
(???) ameron is a majorly cool guy!
(IMG) like pygopherd and the updates to UMN gopher server and client! I
(???) hink John did a great service in making gopher a well-dressed snazzy
(???) ombie! John is cool as well!
(IMG) used mgod and thought it was pretty danged slick. I don't remember
(???) ho wrote it, but I like their stuff! Coolness to them, too!
(IMG) want to be cool like Cameron, John, and that mgod person! Someday,
(IMG) hope to announce my own cool thing and join their ranks. Until
(???) hen, I am just a shlub with a big mouth and I think I will try to
(???) ake my mouth smaller and actually work on something productive rather
(???) han typing repies.
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Tue Aug 05 18:29:22 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=0.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Tue, 05 Aug 2008 18:29:22 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Tue, 05 Aug 2008 11:23:28 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from nf-out-0910.google.com ([64.233.182.190])
(???) eceived: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id b2so880304nfb.12
(???) for <gopher@complete.org>; Tue, 05 Aug 2008 09:23:23 -0700 (PDT)
(???) eceived: by 10.210.86.10 with SMTP id j10mr1193045ebb.25.1217953403644;
(???) Tue, 05 Aug 2008 09:23:23 -0700 (PDT)
(???) eceived: by 10.210.104.19 with HTTP; Tue, 5 Aug 2008 09:23:23 -0700 (PDT)
(???) essage-ID: <e78c27470808050923i2dfb2c5re316f543bfc7496d@mail.gmail.com>
(???) ate: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 10:23:23 -0600
(???) rom: "Jay Nemrow" <jnemrow@quix.us>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <e78c27470808041354m7fd4013dhe83218f241abdd70@mail.gmail.com>
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(???) ontent-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
(???) ontent-Disposition: inline
(???) eferences: <e78c27470808041354m7fd4013dhe83218f241abdd70@mail.gmail.com>
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Tue, 05 Aug 2008 11:23:28 -0500
(???) -archive-position: 2342
(???) -ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: jnemrow@quix.us
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Tue, 05 Aug 2008 11:23:38 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Fate of the Protocol (was Re: Gopherness)
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 96
(IMG) 'll tell you a dirty little secret - Gopher is a zombie. It died
(???) bout fifteen years ago and a handful of people either act like it is
(SND) till alive or chose to reanimate it for some reason. I think we
(SND) hould all have our heads examined for spending any time at all
(???) ighting about a dead protocol. It is like fighting over Latin
(SND) entence structure - who really cares?
(???) ere's my idea. I suggest that we start a huge turf war, create all
(???) inds of wierd servers and clients that have no chance of talking to
(???) ach other, and then use this mail list to abuse everyone that dares
(SND) ubscribe. I think it would be fun! Wait....
(IMG) like Floodgap, httpi, buckd, the web proxy, and OverbiteFF! I think
(???) ameron has come up with some cool stuff and that, by association,
(???) ameron is a majorly cool guy!
(IMG) like pygopherd and the updates to UMN gopher server and client! I
(???) hink John did a great service in making gopher a well-dressed snazzy
(???) ombie! John is cool as well!
(IMG) used mgod and thought it was pretty danged slick. I don't remember
(???) ho wrote it, but I like their stuff! Coolness to them, too!
(IMG) want to be cool like Cameron, John, and that mgod person! Someday,
(IMG) hope to announce my own cool thing and join their ranks. Until
(???) hen, I am just a shlub with a big mouth and I think I will try to
(???) ake my mouth smaller and actually work on something productive rather
(???) han typing repies.
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Tue Aug 05 20:32:10 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Tue, 05 Aug 2008 20:32:10 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Tue, 05 Aug 2008 13:28:50 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from sammakko.firstvds.ru ([82.146.44.239])
(???) eceived: from [212.129.106.238] (test@MS-238-106.dyn-ip.SPb.SkyLink.RU [212.129.106.238])
(???) essage-ID: <48989A90.4040105@ankylym.ru>
(???) ate: Tue, 05 Aug 2008 22:23:12 +0400
(???) rom: Roman Pavlov <webmaster@ankylym.ru>
(???) ser-Agent: Icedove 1.5.0.14pre (X11/20080305)
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) eferences: <e78c27470808041354m7fd4013dhe83218f241abdd70@mail.gmail.com> <f7cf70a70808041420s4e43d3a7oae671e61b6683c54@mail.gmail.com> <489788C5.4030001@sinedev.org>
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <489788C5.4030001@sinedev.org>
(???) ontent-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Tue, 05 Aug 2008 13:28:50 -0500
(???) -archive-position: 2343
(???) -ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: webmaster@ankylym.ru
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Tue, 05 Aug 2008 13:29:00 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Fate of the Protocol (was Re: Gopherness)
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 97
(???) yevan wrote:
(???) Are you offering to host a new list? Not everyone has the resources to
(???) do so, you know. And of course you wouldn't want to use port 70 to serve
(???) notgopher, that would be silly. The best idea seems to be to modify the
(???) Gopher protocol in non-backwards-compatible ways (adding headers of some
(???) sort to ever resource grab seems to be the big change every other desire
(???) relies on)
(???) - And what's the difference from HTTP then? One can easily use apache
(DOC) irectory listings to get "gopher with headers".
(???) ere's my opinion on this topic, sorry if I'm repeating someone:
(???) irst, it is really strange that people on gopher list are discussing
(???) ot how to support the protocol, but how to replace it. I don't mind if
(SND) omeone develops a new protocol and will be running servers on another
(PNG) ort, but who actually needs it? How it will be promoted? Gopher atleast
(HTM) as a solid historical background and mentioned in /etc/services files
(???) ll over the world. Currently, there are about, say, 1% of internet
(???) sers who tried gopher (maybe still an exaggeration) - how much of them
(???) eally need changing the protocol, ever thought about it?
(TN3) hen, if we still want some changes, I wonder why everyone is so
(???) eluctant to use gopher+ which already has most of these improvements,
(???) ike mime types support, implemented even better than in HTTP (user can
(???) hoose which mime type to retrieve). However, mime types are technical
(SND) lang, and item types is what average end user cares about: not gif,
(???) peg, png, but just image and that's all. In this perspective gopher0 is
(???) ore user-friendly than gopher+ or HTTP.
(???) s for myself, I feel happy without headers, mime types and even gopher+
(???) only using it in testing purposes with UMN gopherd). The only thing
(???) hat needs improvement is UTF-8 support in clients. But this is not a
(PNG) rotocol level problem.
(???) The real reason to do this is only to try to hit a middle ground between
(???) http and gopher, really. HTTP is huge, unwieldy, and powerful, while
(???) gopher is small, simple, and arguably less powerful. Trying to hit a
(???) balance so we can handle some more complex things (like download
(???) progress indicators and passing files to the right program on the client
(???) side) while still keeping things simple enough that cheap, simple (or
(???) old) hardware is still all you need to get the basic features out of it.
(???)
(???) I suppose there's also the gopher+ route of adding extra fields (which
(???) actually might be a better option), but is there any way to do that when
(???) you send a magic string? It'd be really nice if a client didn't have to
(???) know the item type for something before it requested it, but if we keep
(???) serving on port 70, we obviously have to send that information in such a
(???) way that it doesn't confuse old clients.
(???)
(???)
(???)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Tue Aug 05 20:32:02 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
(???) elivery-date: Tue, 05 Aug 2008 20:32:02 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Tue, 05 Aug 2008 13:28:50 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from sammakko.firstvds.ru ([82.146.44.239])
(???) eceived: from [212.129.106.238] (test@MS-238-106.dyn-ip.SPb.SkyLink.RU [212.129.106.238])
(???) essage-ID: <48989A90.4040105@ankylym.ru>
(???) ate: Tue, 05 Aug 2008 22:23:12 +0400
(???) rom: Roman Pavlov <webmaster@ankylym.ru>
(???) ser-Agent: Icedove 1.5.0.14pre (X11/20080305)
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) eferences: <e78c27470808041354m7fd4013dhe83218f241abdd70@mail.gmail.com> <f7cf70a70808041420s4e43d3a7oae671e61b6683c54@mail.gmail.com> <489788C5.4030001@sinedev.org>
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <489788C5.4030001@sinedev.org>
(???) ontent-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Tue, 05 Aug 2008 13:28:50 -0500
(???) -archive-position: 2343
(???) -ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: webmaster@ankylym.ru
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Tue, 05 Aug 2008 13:29:00 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Fate of the Protocol (was Re: Gopherness)
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 98
(???) yevan wrote:
(???) Are you offering to host a new list? Not everyone has the resources to
(???) do so, you know. And of course you wouldn't want to use port 70 to serve
(???) notgopher, that would be silly. The best idea seems to be to modify the
(???) Gopher protocol in non-backwards-compatible ways (adding headers of some
(???) sort to ever resource grab seems to be the big change every other desire
(???) relies on)
(???) - And what's the difference from HTTP then? One can easily use apache
(DOC) irectory listings to get "gopher with headers".
(???) ere's my opinion on this topic, sorry if I'm repeating someone:
(???) irst, it is really strange that people on gopher list are discussing
(???) ot how to support the protocol, but how to replace it. I don't mind if
(SND) omeone develops a new protocol and will be running servers on another
(PNG) ort, but who actually needs it? How it will be promoted? Gopher atleast
(HTM) as a solid historical background and mentioned in /etc/services files
(???) ll over the world. Currently, there are about, say, 1% of internet
(???) sers who tried gopher (maybe still an exaggeration) - how much of them
(???) eally need changing the protocol, ever thought about it?
(TN3) hen, if we still want some changes, I wonder why everyone is so
(???) eluctant to use gopher+ which already has most of these improvements,
(???) ike mime types support, implemented even better than in HTTP (user can
(???) hoose which mime type to retrieve). However, mime types are technical
(SND) lang, and item types is what average end user cares about: not gif,
(???) peg, png, but just image and that's all. In this perspective gopher0 is
(???) ore user-friendly than gopher+ or HTTP.
(???) s for myself, I feel happy without headers, mime types and even gopher+
(???) only using it in testing purposes with UMN gopherd). The only thing
(???) hat needs improvement is UTF-8 support in clients. But this is not a
(PNG) rotocol level problem.
(???) The real reason to do this is only to try to hit a middle ground between
(???) http and gopher, really. HTTP is huge, unwieldy, and powerful, while
(???) gopher is small, simple, and arguably less powerful. Trying to hit a
(???) balance so we can handle some more complex things (like download
(???) progress indicators and passing files to the right program on the client
(???) side) while still keeping things simple enough that cheap, simple (or
(???) old) hardware is still all you need to get the basic features out of it.
(???)
(???) I suppose there's also the gopher+ route of adding extra fields (which
(???) actually might be a better option), but is there any way to do that when
(???) you send a magic string? It'd be really nice if a client didn't have to
(???) know the item type for something before it requested it, but if we keep
(???) serving on port 70, we obviously have to send that information in such a
(???) way that it doesn't confuse old clients.
(???)
(???)
(???)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Tue Aug 05 20:41:19 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,SPF_HELO_PASS,
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
(???) elivery-date: Tue, 05 Aug 2008 20:41:19 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Tue, 05 Aug 2008 13:39:12 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from hs-out-0708.google.com ([64.233.178.248])
(???) eceived: by hs-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id k27so162943hsc.2
(???) for <gopher@complete.org>; Tue, 05 Aug 2008 11:39:08 -0700 (PDT)
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(???) ate: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 13:39:08 -0500
(???) rom: "Matthew Holevinski" <eylusion@gmail.com>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <48989A90.4040105@ankylym.ru>
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(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Fate of the Protocol (was Re: Gopherness)
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
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(IMG) can humbly tell you why i want to use it, because I'm sick of banner
(???) ds, I'm sick of pop ups, I'm sick of pointless news articles i care
(???) othing about, i'm sick of web 2.0, i'm sick of signing up on 20,000
(???) ebsites to read a forum article, or use a service, i'm absolutely
(???) ust inundated with sickness with everything the web has become. I use
(???) he internet for 1 purpose to further my understanding of all things
(???) hat I normally would not be able to learn about anywhere else. I'm
(???) ot going to goto college when all I want is the book, I'm not going
(???) o go to the library because it's incomplete, their are only so many
(???) ooks in the library and most of them are fiction, I despise fiction
(???) ith a passion that the likes of which god has never seen. I'm sick of
(???) verything becoming bloated, we all remember that quaint little 9.6
(???) aud modem, and Gopher caterred to that, just text not extensive
(???) mounts of graphics and multimedia clogging up my bandwidth. Yes it's
(???) ice having a 12meg cable connection, BUT if every gosh darn website I
(GIF) oto has an index page that forces me to download 10 megs of
nformation, it's pointless. Just like hardware, yes it's nice having
(???) quad proc board with 4 quad core processors 12gigs of ram, 3 video
(???) ards, etc, etc. when just simply running Winword.exe on a new vista
(???) achine probably consumes 200 megs of memory, i'm sorry Notepad for me
(???) hank you. Sleek, elegant, efficient, simple, worse is better
(PNG) rogramming for me thank you.
(TN3) hat's why i want gopher to regain a foothold on the internet, i'm not
(???) ludgeoned to death with meeting singles in my local area, i'm not
(???) astrated with thousands of sign up pages just to get at the
nformation I want. Just a simple gopher:// go here, click this, read
(???) hat, and i'm done.
(???) att
(???) n Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 1:23 PM, Roman Pavlov <webmaster@ankylym.ru> wrote:
(???) Kyevan wrote:
(???) > Are you offering to host a new list? Not everyone has the resources to
(???) > do so, you know. And of course you wouldn't want to use port 70 to serve
(???) > notgopher, that would be silly. The best idea seems to be to modify the
(???) > Gopher protocol in non-backwards-compatible ways (adding headers of some
(???) > sort to ever resource grab seems to be the big change every other desire
(???) > relies on)
(???)
(???) -- And what's the difference from HTTP then? One can easily use apache
(???) directory listings to get "gopher with headers".
(???)
(???) Here's my opinion on this topic, sorry if I'm repeating someone:
(???)
(???) First, it is really strange that people on gopher list are discussing
(???) not how to support the protocol, but how to replace it. I don't mind if
(???) someone develops a new protocol and will be running servers on another
(???) port, but who actually needs it? How it will be promoted? Gopher atleast
(???) has a solid historical background and mentioned in /etc/services files
(???) all over the world. Currently, there are about, say, 1% of internet
(???) users who tried gopher (maybe still an exaggeration) - how much of them
(???) really need changing the protocol, ever thought about it?
(???)
(???) Then, if we still want some changes, I wonder why everyone is so
(???) reluctant to use gopher+ which already has most of these improvements,
(???) like mime types support, implemented even better than in HTTP (user can
(???) choose which mime type to retrieve). However, mime types are technical
(???) slang, and item types is what average end user cares about: not gif,
(???) jpeg, png, but just image and that's all. In this perspective gopher0 is
(???) more user-friendly than gopher+ or HTTP.
(???)
(???) As for myself, I feel happy without headers, mime types and even gopher+
(???) (only using it in testing purposes with UMN gopherd). The only thing
(???) that needs improvement is UTF-8 support in clients. But this is not a
(???) protocol level problem.
(???)
(???) > The real reason to do this is only to try to hit a middle ground between
(???) > http and gopher, really. HTTP is huge, unwieldy, and powerful, while
(???) > gopher is small, simple, and arguably less powerful. Trying to hit a
(???) > balance so we can handle some more complex things (like download
(???) > progress indicators and passing files to the right program on the client
(???) > side) while still keeping things simple enough that cheap, simple (or
(???) > old) hardware is still all you need to get the basic features out of it.
(???) >
(???) > I suppose there's also the gopher+ route of adding extra fields (which
(???) > actually might be a better option), but is there any way to do that when
(???) > you send a magic string? It'd be really nice if a client didn't have to
(???) > know the item type for something before it requested it, but if we keep
(???) > serving on port 70, we obviously have to send that information in such a
(???) > way that it doesn't confuse old clients.
(???) >
(???) >
(???) >
(???)
(???)
(???)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Tue Aug 05 20:41:27 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
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(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,SPF_HELO_PASS,
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Tue, 05 Aug 2008 20:41:27 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Tue, 05 Aug 2008 13:39:12 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from hs-out-0708.google.com ([64.233.178.248])
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(???) KIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
(???) d=gmail.com; s=gamma;
(???) h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to
(???) :subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type
(???) :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references;
(???) bh=4BZp8LyhZxsoNxLZPqimLAqeVSQH9K5EHz+cXc+6nRI=;
(???) b=Yt4WWqqqZRIVzHrpSNGLrUcmLGOv0RuJs/7rR9yyBvm37mfXljjjRje0ulEnhahv84
(???) Wt4X317Kw487IM0MYsoTdbRDhXRq4K4myb7eSE+iCRgm77kV2iS+PHCqcJN5NvhCCxt/
(???) rnZhrCjSn6u+zA3XOVDoE21lByxIrfmKdvuds=
(???) omainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws;
(???) d=gmail.com; s=gamma;
(???) h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version
(???) :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition
(???) :references;
(???) b=Wop6lmnEL/bmSju7kmXj6gYLosMCiuB3xlC9o+QatwBLPIbNvPJbA6qDTCevXlRkLY
(???) kOsXGh7DyW9zOJwCDfAWm2ZVJUZfjlr4glBZbIgNAjjF3wqxqOdlQD24KQXgmM2VAdbx
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(???) eceived: by 10.101.71.9 with SMTP id y9mr1922757ank.127.1217961548146;
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(???) essage-ID: <3c8abce30808051139qcc395abqe20bd89047244d9@mail.gmail.com>
(???) ate: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 13:39:08 -0500
(???) rom: "Matthew Holevinski" <eylusion@gmail.com>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <48989A90.4040105@ankylym.ru>
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(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Tue, 05 Aug 2008 13:39:12 -0500
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(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Tue, 05 Aug 2008 13:39:22 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Fate of the Protocol (was Re: Gopherness)
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 100
(IMG) can humbly tell you why i want to use it, because I'm sick of banner
(???) ds, I'm sick of pop ups, I'm sick of pointless news articles i care
(???) othing about, i'm sick of web 2.0, i'm sick of signing up on 20,000
(???) ebsites to read a forum article, or use a service, i'm absolutely
(???) ust inundated with sickness with everything the web has become. I use
(???) he internet for 1 purpose to further my understanding of all things
(???) hat I normally would not be able to learn about anywhere else. I'm
(???) ot going to goto college when all I want is the book, I'm not going
(???) o go to the library because it's incomplete, their are only so many
(???) ooks in the library and most of them are fiction, I despise fiction
(???) ith a passion that the likes of which god has never seen. I'm sick of
(???) verything becoming bloated, we all remember that quaint little 9.6
(???) aud modem, and Gopher caterred to that, just text not extensive
(???) mounts of graphics and multimedia clogging up my bandwidth. Yes it's
(???) ice having a 12meg cable connection, BUT if every gosh darn website I
(GIF) oto has an index page that forces me to download 10 megs of
nformation, it's pointless. Just like hardware, yes it's nice having
(???) quad proc board with 4 quad core processors 12gigs of ram, 3 video
(???) ards, etc, etc. when just simply running Winword.exe on a new vista
(???) achine probably consumes 200 megs of memory, i'm sorry Notepad for me
(???) hank you. Sleek, elegant, efficient, simple, worse is better
(PNG) rogramming for me thank you.
(TN3) hat's why i want gopher to regain a foothold on the internet, i'm not
(???) ludgeoned to death with meeting singles in my local area, i'm not
(???) astrated with thousands of sign up pages just to get at the
nformation I want. Just a simple gopher:// go here, click this, read
(???) hat, and i'm done.
(???) att
(???) n Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 1:23 PM, Roman Pavlov <webmaster@ankylym.ru> wrote:
(???) Kyevan wrote:
(???) > Are you offering to host a new list? Not everyone has the resources to
(???) > do so, you know. And of course you wouldn't want to use port 70 to serve
(???) > notgopher, that would be silly. The best idea seems to be to modify the
(???) > Gopher protocol in non-backwards-compatible ways (adding headers of some
(???) > sort to ever resource grab seems to be the big change every other desire
(???) > relies on)
(???)
(???) -- And what's the difference from HTTP then? One can easily use apache
(???) directory listings to get "gopher with headers".
(???)
(???) Here's my opinion on this topic, sorry if I'm repeating someone:
(???)
(???) First, it is really strange that people on gopher list are discussing
(???) not how to support the protocol, but how to replace it. I don't mind if
(???) someone develops a new protocol and will be running servers on another
(???) port, but who actually needs it? How it will be promoted? Gopher atleast
(???) has a solid historical background and mentioned in /etc/services files
(???) all over the world. Currently, there are about, say, 1% of internet
(???) users who tried gopher (maybe still an exaggeration) - how much of them
(???) really need changing the protocol, ever thought about it?
(???)
(???) Then, if we still want some changes, I wonder why everyone is so
(???) reluctant to use gopher+ which already has most of these improvements,
(???) like mime types support, implemented even better than in HTTP (user can
(???) choose which mime type to retrieve). However, mime types are technical
(???) slang, and item types is what average end user cares about: not gif,
(???) jpeg, png, but just image and that's all. In this perspective gopher0 is
(???) more user-friendly than gopher+ or HTTP.
(???)
(???) As for myself, I feel happy without headers, mime types and even gopher+
(???) (only using it in testing purposes with UMN gopherd). The only thing
(???) that needs improvement is UTF-8 support in clients. But this is not a
(???) protocol level problem.
(???)
(???) > The real reason to do this is only to try to hit a middle ground between
(???) > http and gopher, really. HTTP is huge, unwieldy, and powerful, while
(???) > gopher is small, simple, and arguably less powerful. Trying to hit a
(???) > balance so we can handle some more complex things (like download
(???) > progress indicators and passing files to the right program on the client
(???) > side) while still keeping things simple enough that cheap, simple (or
(???) > old) hardware is still all you need to get the basic features out of it.
(???) >
(???) > I suppose there's also the gopher+ route of adding extra fields (which
(???) > actually might be a better option), but is there any way to do that when
(???) > you send a magic string? It'd be really nice if a client didn't have to
(???) > know the item type for something before it requested it, but if we keep
(???) > serving on port 70, we obviously have to send that information in such a
(???) > way that it doesn't confuse old clients.
(???) >
(???) >
(???) >
(???)
(???)
(???)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Tue Aug 05 20:59:10 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
(???) elivery-date: Tue, 05 Aug 2008 20:59:10 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Tue, 05 Aug 2008 13:56:27 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from ik-out-1112.google.com ([66.249.90.181])
(???) eceived: by ik-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id c21so3132185ika.2
(???) for <gopher@complete.org>; Tue, 05 Aug 2008 11:56:21 -0700 (PDT)
(???) eceived: by 10.210.90.10 with SMTP id n10mr1347568ebb.115.1217962581010;
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(???) essage-ID: <e78c27470808051156o349af377w34e77f72652ef98c@mail.gmail.com>
(???) ate: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 12:56:20 -0600
(???) rom: "Jay Nemrow" <jnemrow@quix.us>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <3c8abce30808051139qcc395abqe20bd89047244d9@mail.gmail.com>
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(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Tue, 05 Aug 2008 13:56:27 -0500
(???) -archive-position: 2345
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(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: jnemrow@quix.us
(???) recedence: bulk
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(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
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(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Tue, 05 Aug 2008 13:56:37 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Fate of the Protocol (was Re: Gopherness)
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 101
(???) att. Gopher is not going to "regain a foothold". It will continue
(???) o get more and more marginal and no change to it will slow the slide,
(???) uch less reverse it. http rose and gopher sank. Everything gopher
(DOC) oes, www can do and much more, except slimming bandwidth, but very
(???) ew care about that in a DSL/Cable world.
(IMG) can't see your vision ever happening. Gopher is essentially dead to
(???) early everyone, if they even knew it ever lived. Apparently, we just
(???) ever attended the funeral.
(???) n Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 12:39 PM, Matthew Holevinski <eylusion@gmail.com> wrote:
(???)
(???) That's why i want gopher to regain a foothold on the internet, i'm not
(???) bludgeoned to death with meeting singles in my local area, i'm not
(???) castrated with thousands of sign up pages just to get at the
(???) information I want. Just a simple gopher:// go here, click this, read
(???) that, and i'm done.
(???)
(???) Matt
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Tue Aug 05 20:59:22 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Tue, 05 Aug 2008 20:59:22 +0200
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(???) ate: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 12:56:20 -0600
(???) rom: "Jay Nemrow" <jnemrow@quix.us>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <3c8abce30808051139qcc395abqe20bd89047244d9@mail.gmail.com>
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(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Fate of the Protocol (was Re: Gopherness)
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
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(???) -UID: 102
(???) att. Gopher is not going to "regain a foothold". It will continue
(???) o get more and more marginal and no change to it will slow the slide,
(???) uch less reverse it. http rose and gopher sank. Everything gopher
(DOC) oes, www can do and much more, except slimming bandwidth, but very
(???) ew care about that in a DSL/Cable world.
(IMG) can't see your vision ever happening. Gopher is essentially dead to
(???) early everyone, if they even knew it ever lived. Apparently, we just
(???) ever attended the funeral.
(???) n Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 12:39 PM, Matthew Holevinski <eylusion@gmail.com> wrote:
(???)
(???) That's why i want gopher to regain a foothold on the internet, i'm not
(???) bludgeoned to death with meeting singles in my local area, i'm not
(???) castrated with thousands of sign up pages just to get at the
(???) information I want. Just a simple gopher:// go here, click this, read
(???) that, and i'm done.
(???)
(???) Matt
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Tue Aug 05 21:07:22 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
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(???) ate: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 15:05:15 -0400
(???) rom: "Avery M." <averym@gmail.com>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <e78c27470808051156o349af377w34e77f72652ef98c@mail.gmail.com>
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(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Fate of the Protocol (was Re: Gopherness)
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 103
(???) n Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 2:56 PM, Jay Nemrow <jnemrow@quix.us> wrote:
(???) I can't see your vision ever happening. Gopher is essentially dead to
(???) nearly everyone, if they even knew it ever lived. Apparently, we just
(???) never attended the funeral.
(TN3) his is overly pessimistic. I maintain a gopher because I like the
(???) ndemanding nature of the protocol. Unlike HTTP, whose cognitive style
(???) ewards distraction and skimming, Gopher gives you a decidedly
(???) n-hyper text file and then it's done. I believe other people should
(???) aintain gophers as well, and to that end this list is useful.
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Tue Aug 05 21:07:39 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
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(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Tue, 05 Aug 2008 21:07:39 +0200
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(???) bh=gmYvCuT/mQhu7hAedJXJ7A5ZgahvkedC30p5NUWoIU4=;
(???) b=Z5R6vp4heEFWAFAqjanS2wUvQnSGdI0peE6zXV7Pc6Mt4fU0wjyz/BHm5Zx/8R6yZV
(???) RzONCRQlvEI5cEWBt7y5/r4U5SqejW4dYK2sFzMb0MmlS5zVIIEd88L2nwBH0h0/r/6A
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(???) HgLeQ+ndxc+s+NGWrwgv9pHYzBkkKv5IjmfQcft1Rw/z8vGmhshtL1aGUKTn0FfRwgcd
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(???) ate: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 15:05:15 -0400
(???) rom: "Avery M." <averym@gmail.com>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <e78c27470808051156o349af377w34e77f72652ef98c@mail.gmail.com>
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(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Fate of the Protocol (was Re: Gopherness)
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 104
(???) n Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 2:56 PM, Jay Nemrow <jnemrow@quix.us> wrote:
(???) I can't see your vision ever happening. Gopher is essentially dead to
(???) nearly everyone, if they even knew it ever lived. Apparently, we just
(???) never attended the funeral.
(TN3) his is overly pessimistic. I maintain a gopher because I like the
(???) ndemanding nature of the protocol. Unlike HTTP, whose cognitive style
(???) ewards distraction and skimming, Gopher gives you a decidedly
(???) n-hyper text file and then it's done. I believe other people should
(???) aintain gophers as well, and to that end this list is useful.
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Tue Aug 05 21:28:49 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
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(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
(???) elivery-date: Tue, 05 Aug 2008 21:28:49 +0200
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(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
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(???) eceived: from nf-out-0910.google.com ([64.233.182.184])
(???) eceived: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id b2so916673nfb.12
(???) for <gopher@complete.org>; Tue, 05 Aug 2008 12:24:41 -0700 (PDT)
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(???) ate: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 13:24:40 -0600
(???) rom: "Jay Nemrow" <jnemrow@quix.us>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <f7cf70a70808051205r14f17eb3ke19c09f86fc6840b@mail.gmail.com>
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(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
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(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
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(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Tue, 05 Aug 2008 14:24:55 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Fate of the Protocol (was Re: Gopherness)
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 105
(IMG) think you are absolutely right about the kinds of behaviors www and
(GIF) opher promote. (Look! we agree!) Unfortunately, I don't think it
(???) atters to people in the real world. I prefer to call this
(???) realistic" and hope no one is foolish enough to think someone will be
(???) weeking gopher into some "www-killer".
(???) emember, I run a gopher server, too. I have my reasons as well.
(???) n Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 1:05 PM, Avery M. <averym@gmail.com> wrote:
(???) This is overly pessimistic. I maintain a gopher because I like the
(???) undemanding nature of the protocol. Unlike HTTP, whose cognitive style
(???) rewards distraction and skimming, Gopher gives you a decidedly
(???) un-hyper text file and then it's done. I believe other people should
(???) maintain gophers as well, and to that end this list is useful.
(???)
(???)
(???)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Tue Aug 05 21:29:01 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
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(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=0.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Tue, 05 Aug 2008 21:29:01 +0200
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(???) ate: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 13:24:40 -0600
(???) rom: "Jay Nemrow" <jnemrow@quix.us>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <f7cf70a70808051205r14f17eb3ke19c09f86fc6840b@mail.gmail.com>
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(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Fate of the Protocol (was Re: Gopherness)
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
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(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
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(???) -UID: 106
(IMG) think you are absolutely right about the kinds of behaviors www and
(GIF) opher promote. (Look! we agree!) Unfortunately, I don't think it
(???) atters to people in the real world. I prefer to call this
(???) realistic" and hope no one is foolish enough to think someone will be
(???) weeking gopher into some "www-killer".
(???) emember, I run a gopher server, too. I have my reasons as well.
(???) n Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 1:05 PM, Avery M. <averym@gmail.com> wrote:
(???) This is overly pessimistic. I maintain a gopher because I like the
(???) undemanding nature of the protocol. Unlike HTTP, whose cognitive style
(???) rewards distraction and skimming, Gopher gives you a decidedly
(???) un-hyper text file and then it's done. I believe other people should
(???) maintain gophers as well, and to that end this list is useful.
(???)
(???)
(???)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Tue Aug 05 21:30:41 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
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(???) ate: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 14:24:34 -0500
(???) rom: "Matthew Holevinski" <eylusion@gmail.com>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <f7cf70a70808051205r14f17eb3ke19c09f86fc6840b@mail.gmail.com>
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(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Fate of the Protocol (was Re: Gopherness)
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 107
(???) ay, I am realistic on this topic, I really am, your right it'll never regain
(???) foothold, but while I'm still around I'll use it, if I can.
(???) att
(???) n Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 2:05 PM, Avery M. <averym@gmail.com> wrote:
(???) On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 2:56 PM, Jay Nemrow <jnemrow@quix.us> wrote:
(???) > I can't see your vision ever happening. Gopher is essentially dead to
(???) > nearly everyone, if they even knew it ever lived. Apparently, we just
(???) > never attended the funeral.
(???)
(???) This is overly pessimistic. I maintain a gopher because I like the
(???) undemanding nature of the protocol. Unlike HTTP, whose cognitive style
(???) rewards distraction and skimming, Gopher gives you a decidedly
(???) un-hyper text file and then it's done. I believe other people should
(???) maintain gophers as well, and to that end this list is useful.
(???)
(???)
(???)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Tue Aug 05 21:30:52 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
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(???) ate: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 14:24:34 -0500
(???) rom: "Matthew Holevinski" <eylusion@gmail.com>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <f7cf70a70808051205r14f17eb3ke19c09f86fc6840b@mail.gmail.com>
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(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Fate of the Protocol (was Re: Gopherness)
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 108
(???) ay, I am realistic on this topic, I really am, your right it'll never regain
(???) foothold, but while I'm still around I'll use it, if I can.
(???) att
(???) n Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 2:05 PM, Avery M. <averym@gmail.com> wrote:
(???) On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 2:56 PM, Jay Nemrow <jnemrow@quix.us> wrote:
(???) > I can't see your vision ever happening. Gopher is essentially dead to
(???) > nearly everyone, if they even knew it ever lived. Apparently, we just
(???) > never attended the funeral.
(???)
(???) This is overly pessimistic. I maintain a gopher because I like the
(???) undemanding nature of the protocol. Unlike HTTP, whose cognitive style
(???) rewards distraction and skimming, Gopher gives you a decidedly
(???) un-hyper text file and then it's done. I believe other people should
(???) maintain gophers as well, and to that end this list is useful.
(???)
(???)
(???)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Tue Aug 05 21:34:46 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
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(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
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(???) ate: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 14:26:17 -0500
(???) rom: "Matthew Holevinski" <eylusion@gmail.com>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <3c8abce30808051224k46fba00lc56172d2ba35bc89@mail.gmail.com>
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(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Tue, 05 Aug 2008 14:26:36 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
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(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Fate of the Protocol (was Re: Gopherness)
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
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(???) -UID: 109
(???) ait I'm sorry, I hate to keep sending emails :)
(???) hat about the electronic library movements? I figure that is something
(GIF) opher could help with, veronica for indexing of books or what not, and then
(DOC) ownloading the texts from gopher servers would be pretty slick in my book
(???) ot that I like reading full texts from a computer screen as I don't suppose
(???) any do, but it seems to me that is a viable function gopher could serve.
(???) att
(???) n Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 2:24 PM, Matthew Holevinski <eylusion@gmail.com> wrote:
(???) Jay, I am realistic on this topic, I really am, your right it'll never regain
(???) a foothold, but while I'm still around I'll use it, if I can.
(???)
(???) Matt
(???)
(???) On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 2:05 PM, Avery M. <averym@gmail.com> wrote:
(???) > On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 2:56 PM, Jay Nemrow <jnemrow@quix.us> wrote:
(???) >> I can't see your vision ever happening. Gopher is essentially dead to
(???) >> nearly everyone, if they even knew it ever lived. Apparently, we just
(???) >> never attended the funeral.
(???) >
(???) > This is overly pessimistic. I maintain a gopher because I like the
(???) > undemanding nature of the protocol. Unlike HTTP, whose cognitive style
(???) > rewards distraction and skimming, Gopher gives you a decidedly
(???) > un-hyper text file and then it's done. I believe other people should
(???) > maintain gophers as well, and to that end this list is useful.
(???) >
(???) >
(???) >
(???)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Tue Aug 05 21:34:56 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
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(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
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(???) ate: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 14:26:17 -0500
(???) rom: "Matthew Holevinski" <eylusion@gmail.com>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <3c8abce30808051224k46fba00lc56172d2ba35bc89@mail.gmail.com>
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(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Fate of the Protocol (was Re: Gopherness)
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
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(???) ait I'm sorry, I hate to keep sending emails :)
(???) hat about the electronic library movements? I figure that is something
(GIF) opher could help with, veronica for indexing of books or what not, and then
(DOC) ownloading the texts from gopher servers would be pretty slick in my book
(???) ot that I like reading full texts from a computer screen as I don't suppose
(???) any do, but it seems to me that is a viable function gopher could serve.
(???) att
(???) n Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 2:24 PM, Matthew Holevinski <eylusion@gmail.com> wrote:
(???) Jay, I am realistic on this topic, I really am, your right it'll never regain
(???) a foothold, but while I'm still around I'll use it, if I can.
(???)
(???) Matt
(???)
(???) On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 2:05 PM, Avery M. <averym@gmail.com> wrote:
(???) > On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 2:56 PM, Jay Nemrow <jnemrow@quix.us> wrote:
(???) >> I can't see your vision ever happening. Gopher is essentially dead to
(???) >> nearly everyone, if they even knew it ever lived. Apparently, we just
(???) >> never attended the funeral.
(???) >
(???) > This is overly pessimistic. I maintain a gopher because I like the
(???) > undemanding nature of the protocol. Unlike HTTP, whose cognitive style
(???) > rewards distraction and skimming, Gopher gives you a decidedly
(???) > un-hyper text file and then it's done. I believe other people should
(???) > maintain gophers as well, and to that end this list is useful.
(???) >
(???) >
(???) >
(???)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Tue Aug 05 21:50:57 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
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(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
(???) elivery-date: Tue, 05 Aug 2008 21:50:57 +0200
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(???) eceived: from floodgap.com ([66.159.214.137] ident=elvis)
(???) eceived: (from spectre@localhost)
(???) rom: Cameron Kaiser <spectre@floodgap.com>
(???) essage-Id: <200808051948.m75JmTLJ033576@floodgap.com>
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <e78c27470808051156o349af377w34e77f72652ef98c@mail.gmail.com> from Jay Nemrow at "Aug 5, 8 12:56:20 pm"
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) ate: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 12:48:29 -0700 (PDT)
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(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Fate of the Protocol (was Re: Gopherness)
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 111
(???) Matt. Gopher is not going to "regain a foothold". It will continue
(???) to get more and more marginal and no change to it will slow the slide,
(???) much less reverse it. http rose and gopher sank. Everything gopher
(???) does, www can do and much more, except slimming bandwidth, but very
(???) few care about that in a DSL/Cable world.
(IMG) don't think Gopher is doomed to continue its decline, it just will
(???) ever regain its heyday. However, the fact that retro is now "in," people
(???) ike the simplicity and it's trivially easy to write support for it will
(???) ean that the protocol will always maintain a certain amount of interest.
(???) o I don't predict it ever disappearing completely, nor becoming totally
rrelevant or useless. Even if I were the only Gopher server left, I'd
(???) aintain it because it was fun. And I know others here feel the same way,
(SND) o there will always be some sort of gopherspace, and since I like to eat
(???) y own dog food I will continue to make some effort to make it useful in
(???) y own little modest section o fit.
(???) -
(???) ----------------------------------- personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
(???) Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser@floodgap.com
(???) - Nasty habits/Here to stay! -- Oingo Boingo ---------------------------------
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Tue Aug 05 21:51:06 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
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(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
(???) elivery-date: Tue, 05 Aug 2008 21:51:06 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Tue, 05 Aug 2008 14:47:56 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from nf-out-0910.google.com ([64.233.182.191])
(???) eceived: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id b2so921313nfb.12
(???) for <gopher@complete.org>; Tue, 05 Aug 2008 12:47:51 -0700 (PDT)
(???) eceived: by 10.210.79.14 with SMTP id c14mr1453304ebb.12.1217965670654;
(???) Tue, 05 Aug 2008 12:47:50 -0700 (PDT)
(???) eceived: by 10.210.104.19 with HTTP; Tue, 5 Aug 2008 12:47:50 -0700 (PDT)
(???) essage-ID: <e78c27470808051247q11a11d52m65be1239623cc9f2@mail.gmail.com>
(???) ate: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 13:47:50 -0600
(???) rom: "Jay Nemrow" <jnemrow@quix.us>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <3c8abce30808051226v6b31d030n2d0576d79c908c3c@mail.gmail.com>
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(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Tue, 05 Aug 2008 14:47:55 -0500
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(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
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(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Tue, 05 Aug 2008 14:48:05 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Fate of the Protocol (was Re: Gopherness)
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 112
(IMG) can't imagine why a library would want to support a "fringe"
(PNG) rotocol when they can create a web app that everyone in the universe
(???) an access with ease through a "richer" browser that they already
(HTM) ave. I mean, go ahead and do it, but I would hate to put you in the
(PNG) osition of facing the wierd looks and total dismissal of all your
(???) ork because it doesn't look "cool" or "modern" enough. Facts of
(???) ife?
(???) onestly, though I run a gopher server, I like the larger audience
(???) hat my web-ified side presents to the non-gophers. This (Gopher) is
(???) hobby to me and I long ago let go of any thought that it had an
(???) elevance for the average computer user. One guy looked at one of my
(GIF) opher menus and said "You should take some classes in web design. My
(???) wo-year-old could make a better web page." Like trying to tell a
(PNG) roud Hummer owner why a Model T is neat to drive.
(???) n Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 1:26 PM, Matthew Holevinski <eylusion@gmail.com> wrote:
(???) Wait I'm sorry, I hate to keep sending emails :)
(???) What about the electronic library movements? I figure that is something
(???) gopher could help with, veronica for indexing of books or what not, and then
(???) downloading the texts from gopher servers would be pretty slick in my book
(???) not that I like reading full texts from a computer screen as I don't suppose
(???) many do, but it seems to me that is a viable function gopher could serve.
(???)
(???) Matt
(???)
(???) On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 2:24 PM, Matthew Holevinski <eylusion@gmail.com> wrote:
(???) > Jay, I am realistic on this topic, I really am, your right it'll never regain
(???) > a foothold, but while I'm still around I'll use it, if I can.
(???) >
(???) > Matt
(???) >
(???) > On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 2:05 PM, Avery M. <averym@gmail.com> wrote:
(???) >> On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 2:56 PM, Jay Nemrow <jnemrow@quix.us> wrote:
(???) >>> I can't see your vision ever happening. Gopher is essentially dead to
(???) >>> nearly everyone, if they even knew it ever lived. Apparently, we just
(???) >>> never attended the funeral.
(???) >>
(???) >> This is overly pessimistic. I maintain a gopher because I like the
(???) >> undemanding nature of the protocol. Unlike HTTP, whose cognitive style
(???) >> rewards distraction and skimming, Gopher gives you a decidedly
(???) >> un-hyper text file and then it's done. I believe other people should
(???) >> maintain gophers as well, and to that end this list is useful.
(???) >>
(???) >>
(???) >>
(???) >
(???)
(???)
(???)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Tue Aug 05 21:51:14 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
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(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=0.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Tue, 05 Aug 2008 21:51:14 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Tue, 05 Aug 2008 14:47:56 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from nf-out-0910.google.com ([64.233.182.191])
(???) eceived: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id b2so921313nfb.12
(???) for <gopher@complete.org>; Tue, 05 Aug 2008 12:47:51 -0700 (PDT)
(???) eceived: by 10.210.79.14 with SMTP id c14mr1453304ebb.12.1217965670654;
(???) Tue, 05 Aug 2008 12:47:50 -0700 (PDT)
(???) eceived: by 10.210.104.19 with HTTP; Tue, 5 Aug 2008 12:47:50 -0700 (PDT)
(???) essage-ID: <e78c27470808051247q11a11d52m65be1239623cc9f2@mail.gmail.com>
(???) ate: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 13:47:50 -0600
(???) rom: "Jay Nemrow" <jnemrow@quix.us>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <3c8abce30808051226v6b31d030n2d0576d79c908c3c@mail.gmail.com>
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
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(???) eferences: <e78c27470808041354m7fd4013dhe83218f241abdd70@mail.gmail.com>
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Tue, 05 Aug 2008 14:47:55 -0500
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(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
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(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Tue, 05 Aug 2008 14:48:05 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Fate of the Protocol (was Re: Gopherness)
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 113
(IMG) can't imagine why a library would want to support a "fringe"
(PNG) rotocol when they can create a web app that everyone in the universe
(???) an access with ease through a "richer" browser that they already
(HTM) ave. I mean, go ahead and do it, but I would hate to put you in the
(PNG) osition of facing the wierd looks and total dismissal of all your
(???) ork because it doesn't look "cool" or "modern" enough. Facts of
(???) ife?
(???) onestly, though I run a gopher server, I like the larger audience
(???) hat my web-ified side presents to the non-gophers. This (Gopher) is
(???) hobby to me and I long ago let go of any thought that it had an
(???) elevance for the average computer user. One guy looked at one of my
(GIF) opher menus and said "You should take some classes in web design. My
(???) wo-year-old could make a better web page." Like trying to tell a
(PNG) roud Hummer owner why a Model T is neat to drive.
(???) n Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 1:26 PM, Matthew Holevinski <eylusion@gmail.com> wrote:
(???) Wait I'm sorry, I hate to keep sending emails :)
(???) What about the electronic library movements? I figure that is something
(???) gopher could help with, veronica for indexing of books or what not, and then
(???) downloading the texts from gopher servers would be pretty slick in my book
(???) not that I like reading full texts from a computer screen as I don't suppose
(???) many do, but it seems to me that is a viable function gopher could serve.
(???)
(???) Matt
(???)
(???) On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 2:24 PM, Matthew Holevinski <eylusion@gmail.com> wrote:
(???) > Jay, I am realistic on this topic, I really am, your right it'll never regain
(???) > a foothold, but while I'm still around I'll use it, if I can.
(???) >
(???) > Matt
(???) >
(???) > On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 2:05 PM, Avery M. <averym@gmail.com> wrote:
(???) >> On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 2:56 PM, Jay Nemrow <jnemrow@quix.us> wrote:
(???) >>> I can't see your vision ever happening. Gopher is essentially dead to
(???) >>> nearly everyone, if they even knew it ever lived. Apparently, we just
(???) >>> never attended the funeral.
(???) >>
(???) >> This is overly pessimistic. I maintain a gopher because I like the
(???) >> undemanding nature of the protocol. Unlike HTTP, whose cognitive style
(???) >> rewards distraction and skimming, Gopher gives you a decidedly
(???) >> un-hyper text file and then it's done. I believe other people should
(???) >> maintain gophers as well, and to that end this list is useful.
(???) >>
(???) >>
(???) >>
(???) >
(???)
(???)
(???)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Tue Aug 05 21:51:04 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Tue, 05 Aug 2008 21:51:04 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Tue, 05 Aug 2008 14:48:35 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from floodgap.com ([66.159.214.137] ident=elvis)
(???) eceived: (from spectre@localhost)
(???) rom: Cameron Kaiser <spectre@floodgap.com>
(???) essage-Id: <200808051948.m75JmTLJ033576@floodgap.com>
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <e78c27470808051156o349af377w34e77f72652ef98c@mail.gmail.com> from Jay Nemrow at "Aug 5, 8 12:56:20 pm"
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) ate: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 12:48:29 -0700 (PDT)
(???) -Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)]
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(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Tue, 05 Aug 2008 14:48:35 -0500
(???) -archive-position: 2351
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(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
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(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Tue, 05 Aug 2008 14:48:44 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Fate of the Protocol (was Re: Gopherness)
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 114
(???) Matt. Gopher is not going to "regain a foothold". It will continue
(???) to get more and more marginal and no change to it will slow the slide,
(???) much less reverse it. http rose and gopher sank. Everything gopher
(???) does, www can do and much more, except slimming bandwidth, but very
(???) few care about that in a DSL/Cable world.
(IMG) don't think Gopher is doomed to continue its decline, it just will
(???) ever regain its heyday. However, the fact that retro is now "in," people
(???) ike the simplicity and it's trivially easy to write support for it will
(???) ean that the protocol will always maintain a certain amount of interest.
(???) o I don't predict it ever disappearing completely, nor becoming totally
rrelevant or useless. Even if I were the only Gopher server left, I'd
(???) aintain it because it was fun. And I know others here feel the same way,
(SND) o there will always be some sort of gopherspace, and since I like to eat
(???) y own dog food I will continue to make some effort to make it useful in
(???) y own little modest section o fit.
(???) -
(???) ----------------------------------- personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
(???) Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser@floodgap.com
(???) - Nasty habits/Here to stay! -- Oingo Boingo ---------------------------------
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Tue Aug 05 21:57:44 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=0.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
(???) elivery-date: Tue, 05 Aug 2008 21:57:44 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Tue, 05 Aug 2008 14:51:11 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from nf-out-0910.google.com ([64.233.182.189])
(???) eceived: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id b2so921975nfb.12
(???) for <gopher@complete.org>; Tue, 05 Aug 2008 12:51:06 -0700 (PDT)
(???) eceived: by 10.210.110.5 with SMTP id i5mr1401613ebc.170.1217965866072;
(???) Tue, 05 Aug 2008 12:51:06 -0700 (PDT)
(???) eceived: by 10.210.104.19 with HTTP; Tue, 5 Aug 2008 12:51:06 -0700 (PDT)
(???) essage-ID: <e78c27470808051251m682e677bvef9c146de01b5315@mail.gmail.com>
(???) ate: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 13:51:06 -0600
(???) rom: "Jay Nemrow" <jnemrow@quix.us>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <3c8abce30808051224k46fba00lc56172d2ba35bc89@mail.gmail.com>
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(???) ontent-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
(???) ontent-Disposition: inline
(???) eferences: <e78c27470808041354m7fd4013dhe83218f241abdd70@mail.gmail.com>
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Tue, 05 Aug 2008 14:51:11 -0500
(???) -archive-position: 2352
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(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: jnemrow@quix.us
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Tue, 05 Aug 2008 14:51:21 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Fate of the Protocol (was Re: Gopherness)
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 115
(IMG) will continue using it as well, sick obssession though it may be....
(???) n Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 1:24 PM, Matthew Holevinski <eylusion@gmail.com> wrote:
(???) Jay, I am realistic on this topic, I really am, your right it'll never regain
(???) a foothold, but while I'm still around I'll use it, if I can.
(???)
(???) Matt
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Tue Aug 05 21:59:20 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=0.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Tue, 05 Aug 2008 21:59:20 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Tue, 05 Aug 2008 14:51:11 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from nf-out-0910.google.com ([64.233.182.189])
(???) eceived: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id b2so921975nfb.12
(???) for <gopher@complete.org>; Tue, 05 Aug 2008 12:51:06 -0700 (PDT)
(???) eceived: by 10.210.110.5 with SMTP id i5mr1401613ebc.170.1217965866072;
(???) Tue, 05 Aug 2008 12:51:06 -0700 (PDT)
(???) eceived: by 10.210.104.19 with HTTP; Tue, 5 Aug 2008 12:51:06 -0700 (PDT)
(???) essage-ID: <e78c27470808051251m682e677bvef9c146de01b5315@mail.gmail.com>
(???) ate: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 13:51:06 -0600
(???) rom: "Jay Nemrow" <jnemrow@quix.us>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <3c8abce30808051224k46fba00lc56172d2ba35bc89@mail.gmail.com>
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(???) ontent-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
(???) ontent-Disposition: inline
(???) eferences: <e78c27470808041354m7fd4013dhe83218f241abdd70@mail.gmail.com>
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Tue, 05 Aug 2008 14:51:11 -0500
(???) -archive-position: 2352
(???) -ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: jnemrow@quix.us
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Tue, 05 Aug 2008 14:51:21 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Fate of the Protocol (was Re: Gopherness)
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 116
(IMG) will continue using it as well, sick obssession though it may be....
(???) n Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 1:24 PM, Matthew Holevinski <eylusion@gmail.com> wrote:
(???) Jay, I am realistic on this topic, I really am, your right it'll never regain
(???) a foothold, but while I'm still around I'll use it, if I can.
(???)
(???) Matt
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Thu Aug 07 02:23:01 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
(???) elivery-date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 02:23:01 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Wed, 06 Aug 2008 19:18:21 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from floodgap.com ([66.159.214.137] ident=elvis)
(???) eceived: (from spectre@localhost)
(???) rom: Cameron Kaiser <spectre@floodgap.com>
(???) essage-Id: <200808070018.m770IGJ0013916@floodgap.com>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) ate: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 17:18:16 -0700 (PDT)
(???) -Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)]
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(???) ontent-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Wed, 06 Aug 2008 19:18:21 -0500
(???) -archive-position: 2353
(???) -ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: spectre@floodgap.com
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Wed, 06 Aug 2008 19:18:31 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] update on #388195
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 117
(???) t the risk of ruining all the fun lately over new protocol discussions ;-),
(IMG) have a progress report on the #388195 killer (i.e., the JavaScript
(???) eimplementation of Gopher in Mozilla Core). This has taken longer than I
(???) hought because Mozilla's house style is not my personal style, so I've had
(???) o laboriously js-lint it all, and there will be several things in Overbite
(???) hat will not be ported to the core because I don't think they'll pass muster
(???) nd frankly I just want something in there. One thing I *am* going to do my
(???) est to circumvent is the port != 70 problem with the internal whitelist, and
(???) ry to work in hURL support.
(???) nyway, today I got it embedded into my test version of Shiretoko Alpha 1 and
(???) ested against floodgap and quux and a few others, and have a primitive
(DOC) isplay. The appearance will be similar to the default appearance in Fx3
(???) nd will use the same style sheets to work in with the general overall Fx
ntegration scheme.
(TN3) he idea is that OverbiteFF will continue to exist in parallel with the
(SND) pecial features and different appearance, plus the features vetoed by the
(???) ozilla muckymucks, so that "pro" Gopher users can get these features back.
(???) ut at least this will preserve Gopher support for casual users.
(???) -
(???) ----------------------------------- personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
(???) Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser@floodgap.com
(???) - BOND THEME NOW PLAYING: "All-Time High" from "Octopussy" -------------------
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Thu Aug 07 02:24:19 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 02:24:19 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Wed, 06 Aug 2008 19:18:21 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from floodgap.com ([66.159.214.137] ident=elvis)
(???) eceived: (from spectre@localhost)
(???) rom: Cameron Kaiser <spectre@floodgap.com>
(???) essage-Id: <200808070018.m770IGJ0013916@floodgap.com>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) ate: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 17:18:16 -0700 (PDT)
(???) -Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)]
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(???) ontent-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Wed, 06 Aug 2008 19:18:21 -0500
(???) -archive-position: 2353
(???) -ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: spectre@floodgap.com
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Wed, 06 Aug 2008 19:18:31 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] update on #388195
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 118
(???) t the risk of ruining all the fun lately over new protocol discussions ;-),
(IMG) have a progress report on the #388195 killer (i.e., the JavaScript
(???) eimplementation of Gopher in Mozilla Core). This has taken longer than I
(???) hought because Mozilla's house style is not my personal style, so I've had
(???) o laboriously js-lint it all, and there will be several things in Overbite
(???) hat will not be ported to the core because I don't think they'll pass muster
(???) nd frankly I just want something in there. One thing I *am* going to do my
(???) est to circumvent is the port != 70 problem with the internal whitelist, and
(???) ry to work in hURL support.
(???) nyway, today I got it embedded into my test version of Shiretoko Alpha 1 and
(???) ested against floodgap and quux and a few others, and have a primitive
(DOC) isplay. The appearance will be similar to the default appearance in Fx3
(???) nd will use the same style sheets to work in with the general overall Fx
ntegration scheme.
(TN3) he idea is that OverbiteFF will continue to exist in parallel with the
(SND) pecial features and different appearance, plus the features vetoed by the
(???) ozilla muckymucks, so that "pro" Gopher users can get these features back.
(???) ut at least this will preserve Gopher support for casual users.
(???) -
(???) ----------------------------------- personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
(???) Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser@floodgap.com
(???) - BOND THEME NOW PLAYING: "All-Time High" from "Octopussy" -------------------
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Thu Aug 07 08:00:08 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
(???) elivery-date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 08:00:08 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Thu, 07 Aug 2008 00:57:15 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from morecp.net
(???) eceived: by port70.net (Postfix, from userid 1000)
(???) ate: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 07:57:09 +0200
(???) rom: Mate Nagy <k-zed@hactar.net>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) essage-ID: <20080807055709.GA10407@port70.net>
(???) eferences: <200808070018.m770IGJ0013916@floodgap.com>
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(???) ontent-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
(???) ontent-Disposition: inline
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <200808070018.m770IGJ0013916@floodgap.com>
(???) ser-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17)
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Thu, 07 Aug 2008 00:57:14 -0500
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
(???) -archive-position: 2354
(???) -ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: k-zed@hactar.net
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Thu, 07 Aug 2008 00:57:24 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: update on #388195
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 119
(???) n Wed, Aug 06, 2008 at 05:18:16PM -0700, Cameron Kaiser wrote:
(???) At the risk of ruining all the fun lately over new protocol discussions ;-),
(???) I have a progress report on the #388195 killer (i.e., the JavaScript
(???) reimplementation of Gopher in Mozilla Core). This has taken longer than I
(???) someone is doing something productive! whee!...
(???) The idea is that OverbiteFF will continue to exist in parallel with the
(???) special features and different appearance, plus the features vetoed by the
(???) Mozilla muckymucks, so that "pro" Gopher users can get these features back.
(???) But at least this will preserve Gopher support for casual users.
(???) generally what features do you expect to be missing?
(???) egards,
(???) Mate
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Thu Aug 07 08:00:21 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 08:00:21 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Thu, 07 Aug 2008 00:57:15 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from morecp.net
(???) eceived: by port70.net (Postfix, from userid 1000)
(???) ate: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 07:57:09 +0200
(???) rom: Mate Nagy <k-zed@hactar.net>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) essage-ID: <20080807055709.GA10407@port70.net>
(???) eferences: <200808070018.m770IGJ0013916@floodgap.com>
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(???) ontent-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
(???) ontent-Disposition: inline
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <200808070018.m770IGJ0013916@floodgap.com>
(???) ser-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17)
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Thu, 07 Aug 2008 00:57:14 -0500
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
(???) -archive-position: 2354
(???) -ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: k-zed@hactar.net
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Thu, 07 Aug 2008 00:57:24 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: update on #388195
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 120
(???) n Wed, Aug 06, 2008 at 05:18:16PM -0700, Cameron Kaiser wrote:
(???) At the risk of ruining all the fun lately over new protocol discussions ;-),
(???) I have a progress report on the #388195 killer (i.e., the JavaScript
(???) reimplementation of Gopher in Mozilla Core). This has taken longer than I
(???) someone is doing something productive! whee!...
(???) The idea is that OverbiteFF will continue to exist in parallel with the
(???) special features and different appearance, plus the features vetoed by the
(???) Mozilla muckymucks, so that "pro" Gopher users can get these features back.
(???) But at least this will preserve Gopher support for casual users.
(???) generally what features do you expect to be missing?
(???) egards,
(???) Mate
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Thu Aug 07 08:07:56 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
(???) elivery-date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 08:07:56 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Thu, 07 Aug 2008 01:05:05 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from floodgap.com ([66.159.214.137] ident=elvis)
(???) eceived: (from spectre@localhost)
(???) rom: Cameron Kaiser <spectre@floodgap.com>
(???) essage-Id: <200808070605.m77650ep029022@floodgap.com>
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <20080807055709.GA10407@port70.net> from Mate Nagy at "Aug 7, 8 07:57:09 am"
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) ate: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 23:05:00 -0700 (PDT)
(???) -Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)]
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(???) ontent-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Thu, 07 Aug 2008 01:05:05 -0500
(???) -archive-position: 2355
(???) -ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: spectre@floodgap.com
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Thu, 07 Aug 2008 01:05:15 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: update on #388195
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 121
(???) > At the risk of ruining all the fun lately over new protocol discussions ;-),
(???) > I have a progress report on the #388195 killer (i.e., the JavaScript
(???) > reimplementation of Gopher in Mozilla Core). This has taken longer than I
(???) someone is doing something productive! whee!...
(???) ell, I'm doing *something*, anyway. We can argue over the productive
(PNG) art ;-)
(???) > The idea is that OverbiteFF will continue to exist in parallel with the
(???) > special features and different appearance, plus the features vetoed by the
(???) > Mozilla muckymucks, so that "pro" Gopher users can get these features back.
(???) > But at least this will preserve Gopher support for casual users.
(???) generally what features do you expect to be missing?
(TN3) he stylesheets and icons are definitely toast, because I know that they
(???) ill want everything integrated into the application/http-index-format style
(???) nd while I don't like the implementation it makes sense from an application
(???) nity point of view. The root menu icon is, as a consequence, also gone, and
f I reimplement that as XUL instead of HTML in a future version I'll have to
(SND) ee if they'll let me sneak that in.
(???) o, if you like the enhanced appearance of OverbiteFF (and I do, because it's
(???) ery nice to graphically see all the item types again, plus styled display
(SND) trings), you'll have to have the add-on installed to get it.
(IMG) 'm pretty sure that if they let me get around the port != 70 problem with
(???) he whitelist, then things like CSO/ph *will* be in the default support. If
(???) hey don't, there's no reason for it being there (port 105), so it will be
(???) emoved and made OverbiteFF only.
(???) -
(???) ----------------------------------- personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
(???) Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser@floodgap.com
(???) - The Army needs leaders the way a foot needs a big toe. -- Bill Murray ------
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Thu Aug 07 08:08:04 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 08:08:04 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Thu, 07 Aug 2008 01:05:05 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from floodgap.com ([66.159.214.137] ident=elvis)
(???) eceived: (from spectre@localhost)
(???) rom: Cameron Kaiser <spectre@floodgap.com>
(???) essage-Id: <200808070605.m77650ep029022@floodgap.com>
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <20080807055709.GA10407@port70.net> from Mate Nagy at "Aug 7, 8 07:57:09 am"
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) ate: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 23:05:00 -0700 (PDT)
(???) -Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)]
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(???) ontent-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Thu, 07 Aug 2008 01:05:05 -0500
(???) -archive-position: 2355
(???) -ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: spectre@floodgap.com
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Thu, 07 Aug 2008 01:05:15 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: update on #388195
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 122
(???) > At the risk of ruining all the fun lately over new protocol discussions ;-),
(???) > I have a progress report on the #388195 killer (i.e., the JavaScript
(???) > reimplementation of Gopher in Mozilla Core). This has taken longer than I
(???) someone is doing something productive! whee!...
(???) ell, I'm doing *something*, anyway. We can argue over the productive
(PNG) art ;-)
(???) > The idea is that OverbiteFF will continue to exist in parallel with the
(???) > special features and different appearance, plus the features vetoed by the
(???) > Mozilla muckymucks, so that "pro" Gopher users can get these features back.
(???) > But at least this will preserve Gopher support for casual users.
(???) generally what features do you expect to be missing?
(TN3) he stylesheets and icons are definitely toast, because I know that they
(???) ill want everything integrated into the application/http-index-format style
(???) nd while I don't like the implementation it makes sense from an application
(???) nity point of view. The root menu icon is, as a consequence, also gone, and
f I reimplement that as XUL instead of HTML in a future version I'll have to
(SND) ee if they'll let me sneak that in.
(???) o, if you like the enhanced appearance of OverbiteFF (and I do, because it's
(???) ery nice to graphically see all the item types again, plus styled display
(SND) trings), you'll have to have the add-on installed to get it.
(IMG) 'm pretty sure that if they let me get around the port != 70 problem with
(???) he whitelist, then things like CSO/ph *will* be in the default support. If
(???) hey don't, there's no reason for it being there (port 105), so it will be
(???) emoved and made OverbiteFF only.
(???) -
(???) ----------------------------------- personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
(???) Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser@floodgap.com
(???) - The Army needs leaders the way a foot needs a big toe. -- Bill Murray ------
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Fri Aug 08 21:28:54 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
(???) elivery-date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 21:28:54 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Fri, 08 Aug 2008 14:19:59 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from morecp.net
(???) eceived: by port70.net (Postfix, from userid 1000)
(???) ate: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 21:19:52 +0200
(???) rom: Mate Nagy <k-zed@hactar.net>
(TN3) o: gopher <gopher@complete.org>
(???) essage-ID: <20080808191952.GA24778@port70.net>
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(???) ontent-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
(???) ontent-Disposition: inline
(???) ser-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17)
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Fri, 08 Aug 2008 14:19:59 -0500
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
(???) -archive-position: 2356
(???) -ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: k-zed@hactar.net
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Fri, 08 Aug 2008 14:20:08 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] released: mgod 1.0
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 123
(???) ulloh,
(???) announcing: mgod 1.0
(???) Major changes since previous versions:
(???) - Gopher+ support removed (\t$ selector detection remains, behaves
(???) - Removed original support for search processors; now only the new
(???) - Added check for access permissions. (Files and directories that
(???) - Better file type classification (by a table defined at the head of
(???) - Now it's possible to specify local links by directly writing a
(???) - Source code smaller and somewhat neater, striving towards (but I
(???) In general:
(???) mgod should be a possible choice if you have a linux box and would like
(???) o have your gopher server to be as minimal as the protocol itself
(???) single C, compiles to a 41K elf with -g on an amd64 system).
(???) Runs from inetd. Some features:
(???) - dynamic content generation ("moles", but even parts of static menu
(???) - reverse and by mtime sort options (easy phlogging)
(???) - include mtime in menu descriptions option (easy phlogging)
(???) - support "include" command in control files
(???) - URL: link redirection
(???) - logging (can try to discover originating peer IP address from stdin
(???) - no library dependencies (needs gcc and _GNU_SOURCE)
(???) - comes with a cgi app (also .c) that makes an easy HTTP gateway
(???) -> gopher://port70.net/1mgod
(???) egards,
(???) Mate
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Fri Aug 08 21:29:20 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 21:29:20 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Fri, 08 Aug 2008 14:19:59 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from morecp.net
(???) eceived: by port70.net (Postfix, from userid 1000)
(???) ate: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 21:19:52 +0200
(???) rom: Mate Nagy <k-zed@hactar.net>
(TN3) o: gopher <gopher@complete.org>
(???) essage-ID: <20080808191952.GA24778@port70.net>
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(???) ontent-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
(???) ontent-Disposition: inline
(???) ser-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17)
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Fri, 08 Aug 2008 14:19:59 -0500
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
(???) -archive-position: 2356
(???) -ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: k-zed@hactar.net
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Fri, 08 Aug 2008 14:20:08 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] released: mgod 1.0
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 124
(???) ulloh,
(???) announcing: mgod 1.0
(???) Major changes since previous versions:
(???) - Gopher+ support removed (\t$ selector detection remains, behaves
(???) - Removed original support for search processors; now only the new
(???) - Added check for access permissions. (Files and directories that
(???) - Better file type classification (by a table defined at the head of
(???) - Now it's possible to specify local links by directly writing a
(???) - Source code smaller and somewhat neater, striving towards (but I
(???) In general:
(???) mgod should be a possible choice if you have a linux box and would like
(???) o have your gopher server to be as minimal as the protocol itself
(???) single C, compiles to a 41K elf with -g on an amd64 system).
(???) Runs from inetd. Some features:
(???) - dynamic content generation ("moles", but even parts of static menu
(???) - reverse and by mtime sort options (easy phlogging)
(???) - include mtime in menu descriptions option (easy phlogging)
(???) - support "include" command in control files
(???) - URL: link redirection
(???) - logging (can try to discover originating peer IP address from stdin
(???) - no library dependencies (needs gcc and _GNU_SOURCE)
(???) - comes with a cgi app (also .c) that makes an easy HTTP gateway
(???) -> gopher://port70.net/1mgod
(???) egards,
(???) Mate
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Fri Aug 08 21:50:50 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
(???) elivery-date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 21:50:50 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Fri, 08 Aug 2008 14:44:12 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from floodgap.com ([66.159.214.137] ident=elvis)
(???) eceived: (from spectre@localhost)
(???) rom: Cameron Kaiser <spectre@floodgap.com>
(???) essage-Id: <200808081944.m78Ji4Ur031570@floodgap.com>
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <20080808191952.GA24778@port70.net> from Mate Nagy at "Aug 8, 8 09:19:52 pm"
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) ate: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 12:44:04 -0700 (PDT)
(???) -Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)]
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(???) ontent-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Fri, 08 Aug 2008 14:44:12 -0500
(???) -archive-position: 2357
(???) -ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: spectre@floodgap.com
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Fri, 08 Aug 2008 14:44:22 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: released: mgod 1.0
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 125
(???) Hulloh,
(???) announcing: mgod 1.0
(???) Major changes since previous versions:
(???) - Gopher+ support removed (\t$ selector detection remains, behaves
(???)
(???) hy was it removed? Difficulty of maintaining it?
(IMG) 'll be adding Gopher+ into bucktooth one day but that's a long way off
(???) ight now.
(???) - Source code smaller and somewhat neater, striving towards (but I
(???)
(???) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
(IMG) like this term. I'll be using it in my own descriptions. :-D
(???) -
(???) ----------------------------------- personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
(???) Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser@floodgap.com
(???) - Specialization is for insects. -- Robert Heinlein --------------------------
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Fri Aug 08 21:51:02 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 21:51:02 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Fri, 08 Aug 2008 14:44:12 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from floodgap.com ([66.159.214.137] ident=elvis)
(???) eceived: (from spectre@localhost)
(???) rom: Cameron Kaiser <spectre@floodgap.com>
(???) essage-Id: <200808081944.m78Ji4Ur031570@floodgap.com>
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <20080808191952.GA24778@port70.net> from Mate Nagy at "Aug 8, 8 09:19:52 pm"
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) ate: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 12:44:04 -0700 (PDT)
(???) -Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)]
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(???) ontent-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Fri, 08 Aug 2008 14:44:12 -0500
(???) -archive-position: 2357
(???) -ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: spectre@floodgap.com
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Fri, 08 Aug 2008 14:44:22 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: released: mgod 1.0
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 126
(???) Hulloh,
(???) announcing: mgod 1.0
(???) Major changes since previous versions:
(???) - Gopher+ support removed (\t$ selector detection remains, behaves
(???)
(???) hy was it removed? Difficulty of maintaining it?
(IMG) 'll be adding Gopher+ into bucktooth one day but that's a long way off
(???) ight now.
(???) - Source code smaller and somewhat neater, striving towards (but I
(???)
(???) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
(IMG) like this term. I'll be using it in my own descriptions. :-D
(???) -
(???) ----------------------------------- personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
(???) Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser@floodgap.com
(???) - Specialization is for insects. -- Robert Heinlein --------------------------
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Fri Aug 08 22:00:15 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
(???) elivery-date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 22:00:15 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Fri, 08 Aug 2008 14:52:58 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from lofn.hardison.net ([69.56.173.41])
(???) eceived: from [192.168.2.101] (pool-71-98-23-75.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net [71.98.23.75])
(???) eceived: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 8.0.138 [270.6.0/1601]); Fri, 08 Aug 2008 14:53:03 -0500
(???) essage-ID: <489CA41D.10404@sinedev.org>
(???) ate: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 14:53:01 -0500
(???) rom: Kyevan <kyevan@sinedev.org>
(???) ser-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.16 (Windows/20080708)
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) eferences: <200808081944.m78Ji4Ur031570@floodgap.com>
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <200808081944.m78Ji4Ur031570@floodgap.com>
(???) ontent-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Fri, 08 Aug 2008 14:52:58 -0500
(???) -archive-position: 2358
(???) -ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: kyevan@sinedev.org
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Fri, 08 Aug 2008 14:53:10 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: released: mgod 1.0
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 127
(???) ameron Kaiser wrote:
(???) > Hulloh,
(???) > announcing: mgod 1.0
(???) > Major changes since previous versions:
(???) > - Gopher+ support removed (\t$ selector detection remains, behaves
(???) >
(???)
(???) Why was it removed? Difficulty of maintaining it?
(???) o any clients really support Gopher+, though? (The only one I can
(???) emember hearing of that does expects to be run on Windows 3.1...)
(???) o virus found in this outgoing message.
(???) hecked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
(???) ersion: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.0/1601 - Release Date: 8/8/2008 9:02 AM
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Fri Aug 08 22:00:38 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 22:00:38 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Fri, 08 Aug 2008 14:52:58 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from lofn.hardison.net ([69.56.173.41])
(???) eceived: from [192.168.2.101] (pool-71-98-23-75.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net [71.98.23.75])
(???) eceived: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 8.0.138 [270.6.0/1601]); Fri, 08 Aug 2008 14:53:03 -0500
(???) essage-ID: <489CA41D.10404@sinedev.org>
(???) ate: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 14:53:01 -0500
(???) rom: Kyevan <kyevan@sinedev.org>
(???) ser-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.16 (Windows/20080708)
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) eferences: <200808081944.m78Ji4Ur031570@floodgap.com>
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <200808081944.m78Ji4Ur031570@floodgap.com>
(???) ontent-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Fri, 08 Aug 2008 14:52:58 -0500
(???) -archive-position: 2358
(???) -ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: kyevan@sinedev.org
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Fri, 08 Aug 2008 14:53:10 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: released: mgod 1.0
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 128
(???) ameron Kaiser wrote:
(???) > Hulloh,
(???) > announcing: mgod 1.0
(???) > Major changes since previous versions:
(???) > - Gopher+ support removed (\t$ selector detection remains, behaves
(???) >
(???)
(???) Why was it removed? Difficulty of maintaining it?
(???) o any clients really support Gopher+, though? (The only one I can
(???) emember hearing of that does expects to be run on Windows 3.1...)
(???) o virus found in this outgoing message.
(???) hecked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
(???) ersion: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.0/1601 - Release Date: 8/8/2008 9:02 AM
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Fri Aug 08 23:25:26 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
(???) elivery-date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 23:25:26 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Fri, 08 Aug 2008 16:22:36 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from sammakko.firstvds.ru ([82.146.44.239])
(???) eceived: from [89.253.5.226] (test@MS-226-5.dyn-ip-II.SPb.SkyLink.RU [89.253.5.226])
(???) essage-ID: <489CB7CD.7000702@ankylym.ru>
(???) ate: Sat, 09 Aug 2008 01:17:01 +0400
(???) rom: Roman Pavlov <webmaster@ankylym.ru>
(???) ser-Agent: Icedove 1.5.0.14pre (X11/20080305)
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) eferences: <200808081944.m78Ji4Ur031570@floodgap.com> <489CA41D.10404@sinedev.org>
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <489CA41D.10404@sinedev.org>
(???) ontent-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Fri, 08 Aug 2008 16:22:36 -0500
(???) -archive-position: 2359
(???) -ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: webmaster@ankylym.ru
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Fri, 08 Aug 2008 16:22:46 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: released: mgod 1.0
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 129
(???) yevan wrote:
(???) Cameron Kaiser wrote:
(???) >> Hulloh,
(???) >> announcing: mgod 1.0
(???) >> Major changes since previous versions:
(???) >> - Gopher+ support removed (\t$ selector detection remains, behaves
(???) >>
(???) > Why was it removed? Difficulty of maintaining it?
(???)
(???) Do any clients really support Gopher+, though? (The only one I can
(???) remember hearing of that does expects to be run on Windows 3.1...)
(???) MN gopher client has perfect support
(GIF) opher://gopher.quux.org/1/devel/gopher/Downloads
(???)
(???) No virus found in this outgoing message.
(???) Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
(???) Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.0/1601 - Release Date: 8/8/2008 9:02 AM
(???)
(???)
(???)
(???)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Fri Aug 08 23:25:44 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 23:25:44 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Fri, 08 Aug 2008 16:22:36 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from sammakko.firstvds.ru ([82.146.44.239])
(???) eceived: from [89.253.5.226] (test@MS-226-5.dyn-ip-II.SPb.SkyLink.RU [89.253.5.226])
(???) essage-ID: <489CB7CD.7000702@ankylym.ru>
(???) ate: Sat, 09 Aug 2008 01:17:01 +0400
(???) rom: Roman Pavlov <webmaster@ankylym.ru>
(???) ser-Agent: Icedove 1.5.0.14pre (X11/20080305)
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) eferences: <200808081944.m78Ji4Ur031570@floodgap.com> <489CA41D.10404@sinedev.org>
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <489CA41D.10404@sinedev.org>
(???) ontent-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Fri, 08 Aug 2008 16:22:36 -0500
(???) -archive-position: 2359
(???) -ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: webmaster@ankylym.ru
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Fri, 08 Aug 2008 16:22:46 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: released: mgod 1.0
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 130
(???) yevan wrote:
(???) Cameron Kaiser wrote:
(???) >> Hulloh,
(???) >> announcing: mgod 1.0
(???) >> Major changes since previous versions:
(???) >> - Gopher+ support removed (\t$ selector detection remains, behaves
(???) >>
(???) > Why was it removed? Difficulty of maintaining it?
(???)
(???) Do any clients really support Gopher+, though? (The only one I can
(???) remember hearing of that does expects to be run on Windows 3.1...)
(???) MN gopher client has perfect support
(GIF) opher://gopher.quux.org/1/devel/gopher/Downloads
(???)
(???) No virus found in this outgoing message.
(???) Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
(???) Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.0/1601 - Release Date: 8/8/2008 9:02 AM
(???)
(???)
(???)
(???)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Sat Aug 09 00:25:44 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
(???) elivery-date: Sat, 09 Aug 2008 00:25:44 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Fri, 08 Aug 2008 17:21:14 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from morecp.net
(???) eceived: by port70.net (Postfix, from userid 1000)
(???) ate: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 00:21:09 +0200
(???) rom: Mate Nagy <k-zed@hactar.net>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) essage-ID: <20080808222109.GA25944@port70.net>
(???) eferences: <200808081944.m78Ji4Ur031570@floodgap.com> <489CA41D.10404@sinedev.org> <489CB7CD.7000702@ankylym.ru>
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(???) ontent-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
(???) ontent-Disposition: inline
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <489CB7CD.7000702@ankylym.ru>
(???) ser-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17)
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Fri, 08 Aug 2008 17:21:14 -0500
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
(???) -archive-position: 2360
(???) -ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: k-zed@hactar.net
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Fri, 08 Aug 2008 17:21:24 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: released: mgod 1.0
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 131
(???) UMN gopher client has perfect support
(???) gopher://gopher.quux.org/1/devel/gopher/Downloads
(???) yes - that's the single client I found that used gopher+ - and it's
(???) therwise unwieldy, nasty, and buggy. Its handling of html files seemed
(???) specially horrible.
(???) Other than this, my other reason for dropping gopher+ was that I simply
(DOC) on't find it a good idea :)
(???) In fact, now that I think of it, we're only keeping this handling of
(???) t$ selector workaround in our gopher servers to accomodate the bad
(???) ehavior of this single client that otherwise should be used by nobody.
(???) ome on, it wants to use gopher+ right away on the root menu, and breaks
f it's not supported?
(???) To hell with that. Workaround removed from mgod SVN, I move that others
(SND) hould do similarly.
(???) egards,
(???) Mate
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Sat Aug 09 00:25:56 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Sat, 09 Aug 2008 00:25:56 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Fri, 08 Aug 2008 17:21:14 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from morecp.net
(???) eceived: by port70.net (Postfix, from userid 1000)
(???) ate: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 00:21:09 +0200
(???) rom: Mate Nagy <k-zed@hactar.net>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) essage-ID: <20080808222109.GA25944@port70.net>
(???) eferences: <200808081944.m78Ji4Ur031570@floodgap.com> <489CA41D.10404@sinedev.org> <489CB7CD.7000702@ankylym.ru>
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(???) ontent-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
(???) ontent-Disposition: inline
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <489CB7CD.7000702@ankylym.ru>
(???) ser-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17)
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Fri, 08 Aug 2008 17:21:14 -0500
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
(???) -archive-position: 2360
(???) -ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: k-zed@hactar.net
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Fri, 08 Aug 2008 17:21:24 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: released: mgod 1.0
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 132
(???) UMN gopher client has perfect support
(???) gopher://gopher.quux.org/1/devel/gopher/Downloads
(???) yes - that's the single client I found that used gopher+ - and it's
(???) therwise unwieldy, nasty, and buggy. Its handling of html files seemed
(???) specially horrible.
(???) Other than this, my other reason for dropping gopher+ was that I simply
(DOC) on't find it a good idea :)
(???) In fact, now that I think of it, we're only keeping this handling of
(???) t$ selector workaround in our gopher servers to accomodate the bad
(???) ehavior of this single client that otherwise should be used by nobody.
(???) ome on, it wants to use gopher+ right away on the root menu, and breaks
f it's not supported?
(???) To hell with that. Workaround removed from mgod SVN, I move that others
(SND) hould do similarly.
(???) egards,
(???) Mate
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Sat Aug 09 06:38:11 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
(???) elivery-date: Sat, 09 Aug 2008 06:38:11 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Fri, 08 Aug 2008 23:26:06 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from floodgap.com ([66.159.214.137] ident=elvis)
(???) eceived: (from spectre@localhost)
(???) rom: Cameron Kaiser <spectre@floodgap.com>
(???) essage-Id: <200808090426.m794Q2FT022422@floodgap.com>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) ate: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 21:26:02 -0700 (PDT)
(???) -Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)]
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(???) ontent-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Fri, 08 Aug 2008 23:26:06 -0500
(???) -archive-position: 2361
(???) -ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: spectre@floodgap.com
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Fri, 08 Aug 2008 23:26:16 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] patch for #388195 is out
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 133
(IMG) 've got my hard hat on for all the stones that will get thrown, I'm sure,
(???) ut a first draft JavaScript gopher implementation for Mozilla Core 2 is now
(PNG) osted to bug #388195. If people don't already follow this very important
(???) ug, please go to
(???) -
(???) ----------------------------------- personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
(???) Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser@floodgap.com
(???) - DON'T PANIC! ---------------------------------------------------------------
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Sat Aug 09 06:38:25 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Sat, 09 Aug 2008 06:38:25 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Fri, 08 Aug 2008 23:26:06 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from floodgap.com ([66.159.214.137] ident=elvis)
(???) eceived: (from spectre@localhost)
(???) rom: Cameron Kaiser <spectre@floodgap.com>
(???) essage-Id: <200808090426.m794Q2FT022422@floodgap.com>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) ate: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 21:26:02 -0700 (PDT)
(???) -Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)]
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(???) ontent-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Fri, 08 Aug 2008 23:26:06 -0500
(???) -archive-position: 2361
(???) -ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: spectre@floodgap.com
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Fri, 08 Aug 2008 23:26:16 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] patch for #388195 is out
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 134
(IMG) 've got my hard hat on for all the stones that will get thrown, I'm sure,
(???) ut a first draft JavaScript gopher implementation for Mozilla Core 2 is now
(PNG) osted to bug #388195. If people don't already follow this very important
(???) ug, please go to
(???) -
(???) ----------------------------------- personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
(???) Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser@floodgap.com
(???) - DON'T PANIC! ---------------------------------------------------------------
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Sun Aug 10 01:08:13 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,DKIM_SIGNED,SPF_HELO_PASS,
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
(???) elivery-date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 01:08:13 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Sat, 09 Aug 2008 17:58:46 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from web35705.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([66.163.179.159])
(???) eceived: (qmail 45186 invoked by uid 60001); 9 Aug 2008 22:58:35 -0000
(???) omainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
(???) s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
(???) h=Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Message-ID;
(???) b=mhg1Bs7ddBAAoHWdcRwV+Om7FwCPhkZxdIsJH70HuTgaLn/pwEJWRt1rEdSBC1gzK13RLEsFrvhRE6fnmd6VGfpXm96thCw4PlScuGn5tPNNjwrcPCu1P7PTs2n2Jdp1GK9Vyp60O3ZWpOPD5eY2lIpvQGnSyZAh0LMsVmMd9Ps=;
(???) eceived: from [209.216.94.5] by web35705.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 09 Aug 2008 15:58:35 PDT
(???) -Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.218
(???) ate: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 15:58:35 -0700 (PDT)
(???) rom: JumpJet Mailbox <jumpjetinfo@yahoo.com>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <200808040437.m744bgcL028478@floodgap.com>
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(???) ontent-type: text/plain
(???) essage-ID: <814740.44927.qm@web35705.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sat, 09 Aug 2008 17:58:46 -0500
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
(???) -archive-position: 2362
(???) -ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: jumpjetinfo@yahoo.com
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sat, 09 Aug 2008 17:58:57 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Item Type Suggestions
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 135
(???) ameron,
(???) ince you have access to an Alpha Server, can you please test (and write a review for) the GSAPLHA Gopher Server?
(???)
(???) ilename = GSALPHA.ZIP
(???) ath = gopher://home.jumpjet.info/11\Begin_Here\Servers\Windows_NT\GopherS
(???) -- On Mon, 8/4/08, Cameron Kaiser <spectre@floodgap.com> wrote:
(???) rom: Cameron Kaiser <spectre@floodgap.com>
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Item Type Suggestions
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) ate: Monday, August 4, 2008, 12:37 AM
(???) > > Exactly - you can't rely on '/' being the separator,
(???) r that the last
(???) > > section cut off yields the valid parent dir, or even that there
(???) re
(???) > > directories.
(???) > And here goes an example against the method I suggested.
(???) > An url pointing at a jumpjet resource:
(???) Backslashes are a native feature of all DOS and Windows based Gopher
(???) Servers.
(???) xactly. What Nuno was getting at is that the path separator will vary from
(SND) ystem to system -- off the top of my head, I can think of \ (FAT), /, :
(???) Mac HFS), etc. And then there's VMS, and ...
(IMG) even have an old Alpha Micro server here and it doesn't *have* a concept
(???) f paths at all, just ersatzes, disks and PPNs.
(???) FAIC, trying to parse the selector for parent menus is just going to be a
(???) ig kludge and won't work all the time or everywhere.
(???) -
(???) ----------------------------------- personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
(???) Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser@floodgap.com
(???) - With a rubber duck, one's never alone. -- Douglas Adams,
(???) HGTTG" -----------
(???)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Sun Aug 10 01:08:34 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,DKIM_SIGNED,SPF_HELO_PASS,
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 01:08:34 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Sat, 09 Aug 2008 17:58:46 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from web35705.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([66.163.179.159])
(???) eceived: (qmail 45186 invoked by uid 60001); 9 Aug 2008 22:58:35 -0000
(???) omainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
(???) s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
(???) h=Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Message-ID;
(???) b=mhg1Bs7ddBAAoHWdcRwV+Om7FwCPhkZxdIsJH70HuTgaLn/pwEJWRt1rEdSBC1gzK13RLEsFrvhRE6fnmd6VGfpXm96thCw4PlScuGn5tPNNjwrcPCu1P7PTs2n2Jdp1GK9Vyp60O3ZWpOPD5eY2lIpvQGnSyZAh0LMsVmMd9Ps=;
(???) eceived: from [209.216.94.5] by web35705.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 09 Aug 2008 15:58:35 PDT
(???) -Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.218
(???) ate: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 15:58:35 -0700 (PDT)
(???) rom: JumpJet Mailbox <jumpjetinfo@yahoo.com>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <200808040437.m744bgcL028478@floodgap.com>
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(???) ontent-type: text/plain
(???) essage-ID: <814740.44927.qm@web35705.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sat, 09 Aug 2008 17:58:46 -0500
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
(???) -archive-position: 2362
(???) -ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: jumpjetinfo@yahoo.com
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sat, 09 Aug 2008 17:58:57 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Item Type Suggestions
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 136
(???) ameron,
(???) ince you have access to an Alpha Server, can you please test (and write a review for) the GSAPLHA Gopher Server?
(???)
(???) ilename = GSALPHA.ZIP
(???) ath = gopher://home.jumpjet.info/11\Begin_Here\Servers\Windows_NT\GopherS
(???) -- On Mon, 8/4/08, Cameron Kaiser <spectre@floodgap.com> wrote:
(???) rom: Cameron Kaiser <spectre@floodgap.com>
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Item Type Suggestions
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) ate: Monday, August 4, 2008, 12:37 AM
(???) > > Exactly - you can't rely on '/' being the separator,
(???) r that the last
(???) > > section cut off yields the valid parent dir, or even that there
(???) re
(???) > > directories.
(???) > And here goes an example against the method I suggested.
(???) > An url pointing at a jumpjet resource:
(???) Backslashes are a native feature of all DOS and Windows based Gopher
(???) Servers.
(???) xactly. What Nuno was getting at is that the path separator will vary from
(SND) ystem to system -- off the top of my head, I can think of \ (FAT), /, :
(???) Mac HFS), etc. And then there's VMS, and ...
(IMG) even have an old Alpha Micro server here and it doesn't *have* a concept
(???) f paths at all, just ersatzes, disks and PPNs.
(???) FAIC, trying to parse the selector for parent menus is just going to be a
(???) ig kludge and won't work all the time or everywhere.
(???) -
(???) ----------------------------------- personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
(???) Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser@floodgap.com
(???) - With a rubber duck, one's never alone. -- Douglas Adams,
(???) HGTTG" -----------
(???)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Sun Aug 10 01:40:28 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
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(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
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(???) ate: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 16:35:53 -0700 (PDT)
(???) rom: JumpJet Mailbox <jumpjetinfo@yahoo.com>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
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(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Item Type Suggestions
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
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(???) nough already:
(???) nce again in this discussion I read statements like "but would possibly break compatibility with older clients".
(???)
(???) top guessing, and FIND OUT if the older Clients support these Item Types or not. There are not that many Clients, and they ALL can be found at:
(GIF) opher://home.jumpjet.info/11\Begin_Here\Clients
(???) suggested expanded list of Item Types (written after Gopher went mainstream) was offered in section 3.8 of of RFC1436
(GIF) opher://home.jumpjet.info/00\Begin_Here\References\rfc1436.txt
(???)
(???) owever, and this is important, not all Clients even supported all of these (much less those oddball ones like ";")! The ONLY WAY we will ever know for sure what is or is not supported is to just test ALL the old Clients, and write the results in an Item Type support table... simple, direct, and necessary (if we intend to move forward that is).
(???)
(???) -- On Mon, 8/4/08, Cameron Kaiser <spectre@floodgap.com> wrote:
(???) rom: Cameron Kaiser <spectre@floodgap.com>
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Item Type Suggestions
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) ate: Monday, August 4, 2008, 1:08 AM
(???) What about the whole world of text-based formats? (text/*)?
(???)
(???) I think it might make most sense to put text/* under 1, application/*
(???) under 9, image/* under I, and audio/* under s.
(???) ...]
(???) video/* and model/* could be either shoved under 9, or we could define
(???) ctually, video, for no good reason, has a history of being under ;
(???) semicolon). Don't ask me why; this is what I saw used back in the day, so
t has historical weight behind it.
(???) item types for them. Having item types that parallel the base Internet
(???) media types seems like it would make sense and would ease conversion...
(???) but would possibly break compatibility with older clients. Actually, I
(???) and s have that problem too, though they're wide-spread enough to be
(???) mentioned on Wikipedia (which, admittedly, could just be one editor
(???) using them...)
(???) o, these have pretty good historical weight also. Still, although I
(???) oncede they are nice for user conceptualization, these sorts of gestalt
(???) ypes make me tear my hair out as a client author since they're not
(DOC) eterministic.
(IMG) 'm considering a facultative mode for Overbite where if it sees a MIME
(???) ype embedded in a Gopher URL, it will honour it and strip it out, and
(???) se that to override the item type. I have not yet determined if I'm going
(???) o implement that, but it would be nice for convenience. This would be
ndependent of what the server does so that people could force a MIME type
(???) n a particular URL and make Overbite "do what I want."
(???) Add fallback types to the hypothetical pie-in-the-sky Gopher Perfect
(???) that will be specified around the same time as all that vaporware
(???) e've
(???) been 'promised' over the years comes out, I guess. :P
(???)
(???) Additionaly, might we want to use something like
(???) application/[X-]gopher-menu as a type for 0? I mean, it seems like it
(???) o you mean type 1? I think something like application/gopher-menu (no x-)
s already in use for that. Overbite uses its own pathological string but
(???) hat's mostly to override Mozilla's internal support.
(???) -
(???) ----------------------------------- personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
(???) Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser@floodgap.com
(???) - lp0 reported invalid error status (on fire, eh?) -- Linux 1.1.62 -----------
(???)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Sun Aug 10 01:40:50 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
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(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,DKIM_SIGNED,SPF_HELO_PASS,
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 01:40:50 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Sat, 09 Aug 2008 18:36:05 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from web35705.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([66.163.179.159])
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(???) ate: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 16:35:53 -0700 (PDT)
(???) rom: JumpJet Mailbox <jumpjetinfo@yahoo.com>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(???) ontent-type: text/plain
(???) essage-ID: <502495.69259.qm@web35705.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sat, 09 Aug 2008 18:36:05 -0500
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(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: jumpjetinfo@yahoo.com
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sat, 09 Aug 2008 18:36:15 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Item Type Suggestions
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 138
(???) nough already:
(???) nce again in this discussion I read statements like "but would possibly break compatibility with older clients".
(???)
(???) top guessing, and FIND OUT if the older Clients support these Item Types or not. There are not that many Clients, and they ALL can be found at:
(GIF) opher://home.jumpjet.info/11\Begin_Here\Clients
(???) suggested expanded list of Item Types (written after Gopher went mainstream) was offered in section 3.8 of of RFC1436
(GIF) opher://home.jumpjet.info/00\Begin_Here\References\rfc1436.txt
(???)
(???) owever, and this is important, not all Clients even supported all of these (much less those oddball ones like ";")! The ONLY WAY we will ever know for sure what is or is not supported is to just test ALL the old Clients, and write the results in an Item Type support table... simple, direct, and necessary (if we intend to move forward that is).
(???)
(???) -- On Mon, 8/4/08, Cameron Kaiser <spectre@floodgap.com> wrote:
(???) rom: Cameron Kaiser <spectre@floodgap.com>
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Item Type Suggestions
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) ate: Monday, August 4, 2008, 1:08 AM
(???) What about the whole world of text-based formats? (text/*)?
(???)
(???) I think it might make most sense to put text/* under 1, application/*
(???) under 9, image/* under I, and audio/* under s.
(???) ...]
(???) video/* and model/* could be either shoved under 9, or we could define
(???) ctually, video, for no good reason, has a history of being under ;
(???) semicolon). Don't ask me why; this is what I saw used back in the day, so
t has historical weight behind it.
(???) item types for them. Having item types that parallel the base Internet
(???) media types seems like it would make sense and would ease conversion...
(???) but would possibly break compatibility with older clients. Actually, I
(???) and s have that problem too, though they're wide-spread enough to be
(???) mentioned on Wikipedia (which, admittedly, could just be one editor
(???) using them...)
(???) o, these have pretty good historical weight also. Still, although I
(???) oncede they are nice for user conceptualization, these sorts of gestalt
(???) ypes make me tear my hair out as a client author since they're not
(DOC) eterministic.
(IMG) 'm considering a facultative mode for Overbite where if it sees a MIME
(???) ype embedded in a Gopher URL, it will honour it and strip it out, and
(???) se that to override the item type. I have not yet determined if I'm going
(???) o implement that, but it would be nice for convenience. This would be
ndependent of what the server does so that people could force a MIME type
(???) n a particular URL and make Overbite "do what I want."
(???) Add fallback types to the hypothetical pie-in-the-sky Gopher Perfect
(???) that will be specified around the same time as all that vaporware
(???) e've
(???) been 'promised' over the years comes out, I guess. :P
(???)
(???) Additionaly, might we want to use something like
(???) application/[X-]gopher-menu as a type for 0? I mean, it seems like it
(???) o you mean type 1? I think something like application/gopher-menu (no x-)
s already in use for that. Overbite uses its own pathological string but
(???) hat's mostly to override Mozilla's internal support.
(???) -
(???) ----------------------------------- personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
(???) Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser@floodgap.com
(???) - lp0 reported invalid error status (on fire, eh?) -- Linux 1.1.62 -----------
(???)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Sun Aug 10 01:42:26 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,DKIM_SIGNED,SPF_HELO_PASS,
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
(???) elivery-date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 01:42:26 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Sat, 09 Aug 2008 18:38:43 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from web35707.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([66.163.179.161])
(???) eceived: (qmail 52633 invoked by uid 60001); 9 Aug 2008 23:38:32 -0000
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(???) ate: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 16:38:32 -0700 (PDT)
(???) rom: JumpJet Mailbox <jumpjetinfo@yahoo.com>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <20080804081251.GA14635@port70.net>
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
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(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sat, 09 Aug 2008 18:38:42 -0500
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(???) -original-sender: jumpjetinfo@yahoo.com
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(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sat, 09 Aug 2008 18:38:53 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Item Type Suggestions
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 139
(???) as anyone tried testing Gopher with a WAIS Server?
(GIF) opher://home.jumpjet.info/11\Win2k_Hosting\Servers\(WAIS)_WAISS_0-3
(???) -- On Mon, 8/4/08, Mate Nagy <k-zed@hactar.net> wrote:
(???) rom: Mate Nagy <k-zed@hactar.net>
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Item Type Suggestions
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) ate: Monday, August 4, 2008, 4:12 AM
(???) n Sun, Aug 03, 2008 at 09:45:03PM -0700, Cameron Kaiser wrote:
(???) What text do you have indexed? I'd rather not have Veronica talking to
(???) anything but its own internal data sources (nothing personal, I'm just
(???) paranoid like that), but I'd love to see another search solution on
(???) he
(???) scene.
(???) HyperEstraier isn't an internet service, it's a program you can
nstall
(???) nd use. Runs completely locally, sends no info to other parties etc
(???) tc. "Talking to it" would probably consist of using its command line
nterface, or perhaps the API that the builtin HTTP crawler uses (it
(???) ight be necessary to look into the source code of that).
(???) It has it's own database format (stores in a directory structure on
(???) our HD) - it's much faster than the SQL-based engines I tried. Creating
(???) he database, indexing, and searching can be all done thru the CLI
(???) it can yield search results in XML (which I transform and display in a
(GIF) opher menu), or other various formats).
(???) I mentioned Veronica because I imagine it might be quite easy to give a
(SND) eries of gopher URLs and their content to "estcmd" somehow, and bam,
(???) ou have a full textgopher search engine.. (It might not be quite this
(???) rivial, but I'm sure it won't be impossible either.)
(???) The text is my private e-text collection :)
(???) (I run the search engine on my server, which has an AMD athlon 64 X2
(HEX) 000+ with 4 gigs of RAM and SATA II disks; Debian lenny, hyperestraier
(DIR) .4.9-1.4; indexing 16 gigs of text was finished I believe within 6
(HTM) ours; the created index database takes 11 gigs of space.)
(???) egards,
(???) Mate
(???)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Sun Aug 10 01:42:38 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
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(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,DKIM_SIGNED,SPF_HELO_PASS,
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 01:42:38 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Sat, 09 Aug 2008 18:38:43 -0500 (CDT)
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(???) h=Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Message-ID;
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(???) ate: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 16:38:32 -0700 (PDT)
(???) rom: JumpJet Mailbox <jumpjetinfo@yahoo.com>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <20080804081251.GA14635@port70.net>
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
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(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sat, 09 Aug 2008 18:38:53 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Item Type Suggestions
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 140
(???) as anyone tried testing Gopher with a WAIS Server?
(GIF) opher://home.jumpjet.info/11\Win2k_Hosting\Servers\(WAIS)_WAISS_0-3
(???) -- On Mon, 8/4/08, Mate Nagy <k-zed@hactar.net> wrote:
(???) rom: Mate Nagy <k-zed@hactar.net>
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Item Type Suggestions
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) ate: Monday, August 4, 2008, 4:12 AM
(???) n Sun, Aug 03, 2008 at 09:45:03PM -0700, Cameron Kaiser wrote:
(???) What text do you have indexed? I'd rather not have Veronica talking to
(???) anything but its own internal data sources (nothing personal, I'm just
(???) paranoid like that), but I'd love to see another search solution on
(???) he
(???) scene.
(???) HyperEstraier isn't an internet service, it's a program you can
nstall
(???) nd use. Runs completely locally, sends no info to other parties etc
(???) tc. "Talking to it" would probably consist of using its command line
nterface, or perhaps the API that the builtin HTTP crawler uses (it
(???) ight be necessary to look into the source code of that).
(???) It has it's own database format (stores in a directory structure on
(???) our HD) - it's much faster than the SQL-based engines I tried. Creating
(???) he database, indexing, and searching can be all done thru the CLI
(???) it can yield search results in XML (which I transform and display in a
(GIF) opher menu), or other various formats).
(???) I mentioned Veronica because I imagine it might be quite easy to give a
(SND) eries of gopher URLs and their content to "estcmd" somehow, and bam,
(???) ou have a full textgopher search engine.. (It might not be quite this
(???) rivial, but I'm sure it won't be impossible either.)
(???) The text is my private e-text collection :)
(???) (I run the search engine on my server, which has an AMD athlon 64 X2
(HEX) 000+ with 4 gigs of RAM and SATA II disks; Debian lenny, hyperestraier
(DIR) .4.9-1.4; indexing 16 gigs of text was finished I believe within 6
(HTM) ours; the created index database takes 11 gigs of space.)
(???) egards,
(???) Mate
(???)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Sun Aug 10 01:50:59 2008
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(???) ate: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 16:46:56 -0700 (PDT)
(???) rom: JumpJet Mailbox <jumpjetinfo@yahoo.com>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <48972C0E.2000604@sinedev.org>
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(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Gopherness
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(???) ets test the Older Clients for UTF-8 handling, and write the results on a table.
(GIF) opher://home.jumpjet.info/11\Begin_Here\Clients
(???)
(???) or Starters, we can report on how the Clients each of us are using are handling this (and could someone run a UTF-8 Gopher Server that we can test our Clients against)?
(???) -- On Mon, 8/4/08, Kyevan <kyevan@sinedev.org> wrote:
(???) rom: Kyevan <kyevan@sinedev.org>
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Gopherness
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) ate: Monday, August 4, 2008, 12:19 PM
(???) hat about older clients, though? Modern clients will probably handle
(???) TF-8 at least well enough to not explode, but older clients might not.
(???) enerally, it seems safest to stick to the subset that is ASCII when
(???) easonable, only using UTF-8 or such when it's actually needed. ... is a
(PNG) erfectly readable replacement for U+2026, even if it's not
(???) typographically correct." On the other hand, if you're trying to
(PNG) ost a
(???) ext in, say, a mix of Arabic, and Klingon, go right ahead and use UTF-8.
(???) ameron Kaiser wrote:
(???) I can see where it might be troublesome for filenames and selectors to be
(???) UTF-8, although that would be a local filesystem and/or server issue.
(???)
(???) However, there's nothing really preventing the use of UTF-8 in Gopher,
(???) and in fact I am personally aware of several sites that use it. Overbite
(???) does support it and the most current version has a bug with encoding
(SND) moked
(???) out which should make it nearly perfect. I was testing it on both a Big5
(???) encoded Chinese gopher site and another UTF-8 encoded menu, and it renders
(???) correctly.
(???)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Sun Aug 10 01:51:12 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
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(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
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(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Gopherness
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
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(???) ets test the Older Clients for UTF-8 handling, and write the results on a table.
(GIF) opher://home.jumpjet.info/11\Begin_Here\Clients
(???)
(???) or Starters, we can report on how the Clients each of us are using are handling this (and could someone run a UTF-8 Gopher Server that we can test our Clients against)?
(???) -- On Mon, 8/4/08, Kyevan <kyevan@sinedev.org> wrote:
(???) rom: Kyevan <kyevan@sinedev.org>
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Gopherness
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) ate: Monday, August 4, 2008, 12:19 PM
(???) hat about older clients, though? Modern clients will probably handle
(???) TF-8 at least well enough to not explode, but older clients might not.
(???) enerally, it seems safest to stick to the subset that is ASCII when
(???) easonable, only using UTF-8 or such when it's actually needed. ... is a
(PNG) erfectly readable replacement for U+2026, even if it's not
(???) typographically correct." On the other hand, if you're trying to
(PNG) ost a
(???) ext in, say, a mix of Arabic, and Klingon, go right ahead and use UTF-8.
(???) ameron Kaiser wrote:
(???) I can see where it might be troublesome for filenames and selectors to be
(???) UTF-8, although that would be a local filesystem and/or server issue.
(???)
(???) However, there's nothing really preventing the use of UTF-8 in Gopher,
(???) and in fact I am personally aware of several sites that use it. Overbite
(???) does support it and the most current version has a bug with encoding
(SND) moked
(???) out which should make it nearly perfect. I was testing it on both a Big5
(???) encoded Chinese gopher site and another UTF-8 encoded menu, and it renders
(???) correctly.
(???)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Sun Aug 10 02:02:47 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
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(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,DKIM_SIGNED,SPF_HELO_PASS,
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(???) rom: JumpJet Mailbox <jumpjetinfo@yahoo.com>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
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(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Item Type Suggestions
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
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(TN3) he WWW also has had issues with people not willing to support older Browsers, and there is a campain to try and fight the trend there as well.
(HTM) ttp://www.anybrowser.org/campaign/index.html
(???)
(???) t least with Gopher, we still (in 2008) have have not yet abandoned supporting the older Clients, and can still insist on their support. Personally, I LIKE to be able to surf from my DOS machine, and I am sure Cameron enjoys surfing from his C64.
(???) -- On Mon, 8/4/08, Jay Nemrow <jnemrow@quix.us> wrote:
(???) rom: Jay Nemrow <jnemrow@quix.us>
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Item Type Suggestions
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) ate: Monday, August 4, 2008, 1:36 PM
(TN3) his is getting tiring for me and I really hope it is for other
(PNG) eople. We need to establish our standards soon or we will be getting
(???) he same divergence for eternity.
(IMG) t sounds like we are still wrestling over a very basic idea - do we
(???) are to if we abandon gopher0 and break older clients? Kyevan seems
(???) o be voting to do away with the old stuff and pursue a new course.
(IMG) f we are to move forward, we need to decide if we are honoring
(GIF) opher0 as it stands or not. If we are not going to worry about
(???) ackward-compatibility, why are we even using Gopher as a base? Throw
t out and redesign a new protocol that makes sense given modern
(???) ealities.
(IMG) think I understand why many people would rather just jack-up gopher
nstead of admitting that they are building something new - gopher
(???) lready has a presence (a very weak one) and something new would have
(???) o build a new audience. It is easier to simply hijack the tiny
(GIF) opher audience and make them do upgrades. I am not going there and
(???) nyone else who respects any kind of netiquette should not be going
(???) here either.
(IMG) will head off an accusation now, though I know people will fling it
(???) nyway - I am not against adding new functionality to gopher servers
(???) nd clients! What I am against is essentially breaking gopher
(???) especially older clients) to get this new functionality. Gopher has
(???) ays to add new abilities that don't break old things. We need to
(SND) tick with that if we are interested in gopher at all.
(IMG) n respect of those of us that don't want to break the backward path,
(IMG) say the rest of you should find yourselves a new name, get
(???) ourselves a new port assignment, and leave port 70 and gopher be. I
(???) m getting the impression that a lot of people are just looking to
(???) ake the real estate that is port 70, usurping what little audience it
(HTM) as left, and telling the gopher protocol people to basically get
(???) ost. Here is my response: Find your own protocol port/name and quit
(???) rying to steal gopher's.
(???) n Sat, Aug 2, 2008 at 7:18 PM, Kyevan <kyevan@sinedev.org> wrote:
(???) What about the whole world of text-based formats? (text/*)?
(???)
(???) I think it might make most sense to put text/* under 1, application/*
(???) under 9, image/* under I, and audio/* under s.
(???)
(???) As a practical matter, for the moment, it might be easiest to just
(???) prohibit message/* and multipart/*, since the only use I can see
(???) gopher-wise would be multipart/appledouble, and there it makes more
(???) sense to use binhex and item type 4. example/* and */example are
(???) entirely invalid (outside documentation), of course!
(???)
(???) video/* and model/* could be either shoved under 9, or we could define
(???) item types for them. Having item types that parallel the base Internet
(???) media types seems like it would make sense and would ease conversion...
(???) but would possibly break compatibility with older clients. Actually, I
(???) and s have that problem too, though they're wide-spread enough to be
(???) mentioned on Wikipedia (which, admittedly, could just be one editor
(???) using them...)
(???)
(???) Add fallback types to the hypothetical pie-in-the-sky Gopher Perfect
(???) that will be specified around the same time as all that vaporware
(???) e've
(???) been 'promised' over the years comes out, I guess. :P
(???)
(???) Additionaly, might we want to use something like
(???) application/[X-]gopher-menu as a type for 0? I mean, it seems like it
(???) would be nice to have SOMETHING to put in a MIME type-related field for
(???) menus, if for no other reason than to look nicer to humans reading the
(???) menu... and besides, then you could do stupid things like return gopher
(???) menus over http :P
(???)
(???) -- Kyevan
(???)
(???) Jay Nemrow wrote:
(???) > Also, if we are to deal with mime types at all, I am thinking that all
(???) > of them must be put under the 9 item type, no matter what, just to
(???) > keep old clients from breaking. If you put a .doc file under the 0
(???) > menu type, the old client wants to dump that to screen as text and you
(???) > will see gibberish and probably crash things. Everything that
(DOC) oesn't
(???) > fit into the established types will have to be 9 item types, as far as
(???) > I can see.
(???)
(???)
(???)
(???)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Sun Aug 10 02:03:02 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
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(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
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(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Item Type Suggestions
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(TN3) he WWW also has had issues with people not willing to support older Browsers, and there is a campain to try and fight the trend there as well.
(HTM) ttp://www.anybrowser.org/campaign/index.html
(???)
(???) t least with Gopher, we still (in 2008) have have not yet abandoned supporting the older Clients, and can still insist on their support. Personally, I LIKE to be able to surf from my DOS machine, and I am sure Cameron enjoys surfing from his C64.
(???) -- On Mon, 8/4/08, Jay Nemrow <jnemrow@quix.us> wrote:
(???) rom: Jay Nemrow <jnemrow@quix.us>
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Item Type Suggestions
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) ate: Monday, August 4, 2008, 1:36 PM
(TN3) his is getting tiring for me and I really hope it is for other
(PNG) eople. We need to establish our standards soon or we will be getting
(???) he same divergence for eternity.
(IMG) t sounds like we are still wrestling over a very basic idea - do we
(???) are to if we abandon gopher0 and break older clients? Kyevan seems
(???) o be voting to do away with the old stuff and pursue a new course.
(IMG) f we are to move forward, we need to decide if we are honoring
(GIF) opher0 as it stands or not. If we are not going to worry about
(???) ackward-compatibility, why are we even using Gopher as a base? Throw
t out and redesign a new protocol that makes sense given modern
(???) ealities.
(IMG) think I understand why many people would rather just jack-up gopher
nstead of admitting that they are building something new - gopher
(???) lready has a presence (a very weak one) and something new would have
(???) o build a new audience. It is easier to simply hijack the tiny
(GIF) opher audience and make them do upgrades. I am not going there and
(???) nyone else who respects any kind of netiquette should not be going
(???) here either.
(IMG) will head off an accusation now, though I know people will fling it
(???) nyway - I am not against adding new functionality to gopher servers
(???) nd clients! What I am against is essentially breaking gopher
(???) especially older clients) to get this new functionality. Gopher has
(???) ays to add new abilities that don't break old things. We need to
(SND) tick with that if we are interested in gopher at all.
(IMG) n respect of those of us that don't want to break the backward path,
(IMG) say the rest of you should find yourselves a new name, get
(???) ourselves a new port assignment, and leave port 70 and gopher be. I
(???) m getting the impression that a lot of people are just looking to
(???) ake the real estate that is port 70, usurping what little audience it
(HTM) as left, and telling the gopher protocol people to basically get
(???) ost. Here is my response: Find your own protocol port/name and quit
(???) rying to steal gopher's.
(???) n Sat, Aug 2, 2008 at 7:18 PM, Kyevan <kyevan@sinedev.org> wrote:
(???) What about the whole world of text-based formats? (text/*)?
(???)
(???) I think it might make most sense to put text/* under 1, application/*
(???) under 9, image/* under I, and audio/* under s.
(???)
(???) As a practical matter, for the moment, it might be easiest to just
(???) prohibit message/* and multipart/*, since the only use I can see
(???) gopher-wise would be multipart/appledouble, and there it makes more
(???) sense to use binhex and item type 4. example/* and */example are
(???) entirely invalid (outside documentation), of course!
(???)
(???) video/* and model/* could be either shoved under 9, or we could define
(???) item types for them. Having item types that parallel the base Internet
(???) media types seems like it would make sense and would ease conversion...
(???) but would possibly break compatibility with older clients. Actually, I
(???) and s have that problem too, though they're wide-spread enough to be
(???) mentioned on Wikipedia (which, admittedly, could just be one editor
(???) using them...)
(???)
(???) Add fallback types to the hypothetical pie-in-the-sky Gopher Perfect
(???) that will be specified around the same time as all that vaporware
(???) e've
(???) been 'promised' over the years comes out, I guess. :P
(???)
(???) Additionaly, might we want to use something like
(???) application/[X-]gopher-menu as a type for 0? I mean, it seems like it
(???) would be nice to have SOMETHING to put in a MIME type-related field for
(???) menus, if for no other reason than to look nicer to humans reading the
(???) menu... and besides, then you could do stupid things like return gopher
(???) menus over http :P
(???)
(???) -- Kyevan
(???)
(???) Jay Nemrow wrote:
(???) > Also, if we are to deal with mime types at all, I am thinking that all
(???) > of them must be put under the 9 item type, no matter what, just to
(???) > keep old clients from breaking. If you put a .doc file under the 0
(???) > menu type, the old client wants to dump that to screen as text and you
(???) > will see gibberish and probably crash things. Everything that
(DOC) oesn't
(???) > fit into the established types will have to be 9 item types, as far as
(???) > I can see.
(???)
(???)
(???)
(???)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Sun Aug 10 02:07:32 2008
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(???) rom: JumpJet Mailbox <jumpjetinfo@yahoo.com>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
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(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Gopherness
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(???) ow would we print a Gopher retreived text document on, for example, an older (or mini-mainframe) computer which only uses a Daisy Wheel Printer or Teletype Printer (which ONLY supports ASCII characters)?
(???) -- On Mon, 8/4/08, Nuno J. Silva <nunojsilva@ist.utl.pt> wrote:
(???) rom: Nuno J. Silva <nunojsilva@ist.utl.pt>
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Gopherness
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) ate: Monday, August 4, 2008, 2:08 PM
(???) Jay Nemrow" <jnemrow@quix.us> writes:
(???) On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 10:19 AM, Kyevan <kyevan@sinedev.org> wrote:
(???) > What about older clients, though? Modern clients will probably handle
(???) > UTF-8 at least well enough to not explode, but older clients might
(???) ot.
(???) > Generally, it seems safest to stick to the subset that is ASCII when
(???) > reasonable, only using UTF-8 or such when it's actually needed.
(???) .. is a
(???) > perfectly readable replacement for U+2026, even if it's not
(???) > "typographically correct." On the other hand, if you're
(???) rying to post a
(???) > text in, say, a mix of Arabic, and Klingon, go right ahead and use
(???) > UTF-8.
(TN3) here are also these iso* charsets which just use 8 bit to encode the
(???) ext, not allowing a greater collection of characters, and using those
(???) ou wouldn't be able to mix charsets.
(???) or iso*, AFAIK, some sort of character detection, or configuration
(???) ould be required on the client side (it is possible to do that getting
(???) he document language using gopher+ - and URLs pointing to the specific
(???) iew (even if it is just one) would be required to autodetect when
(???) rowsing a non-ASCII URL). utf8 will have to be supported, for the small
(???) but not zero) scenarios in which two non-ASCII alphabets are mixed in
(???) he same text, and auto-detect would fail (unless a special language
(???) ode is used for mixed-language documents, or if the client handles more
(???) han one non-english language (if it is allowed to specify more than one
n the gopher+ attributes) as utf8).
(???) n the other hand, even if the choice was utf8 (so the documents would
(???) e ASCII or utf8), I'd keep iso* support, just in case (therefore my
(???) uestion is 'should we use the same sort of character encoding when
(PNG) ublishing non-english documents? if yes, which one?' and not 'what
(SND) hould a client support?').
(???) hat's the actual scenario? Is there any client which crashes due to
(???) tf8? Which clients are not able to render it correctly? And what about
so* charsets support?
(???) snip/>
(???) If we do a version of Gopher which is basically new (adding UTF-8 or
(???) MIME or whatever), I think we should ask for and get a new port
(???) assignment for it. If you wanted Goph08, send the request through a
(???) Goph08 port number. Gopher request continue to go through port 70.
(???) Just have your server listen on two ports instead of one, using the
(???) old idea that if you are using a different protocol (essentially), you
(???) should use a different port. (Crazy idea, I know.) I guess this gets
(???) back to an old point, which is that a modern version of Gopher is
(???) essentially a new protocol and should be treated as such. If you guys
(???) want to change Gopher to "improve" it, it ceases to be Gopher.
(???) "Updated" nostalgia is not nostalgia at all.
(???) dding a new way to do the mime part would be a reason to make another
(???) ersion of the gopher protocol, or a protocol under a different name,
(???) ut about utf8, it's not about gopher, it's about the way text is
(???) endered by the client, not requiring any change in the protocol.
(???) -
(???) uno J. Silva (aka njsg)
(???) EIC student at Instituto Superior Técnico
(???) isbon, Portugal
(???) omepage: http://njsg.no.sapo.pt/
(???) opherspace: gopher://sdf-eu.org/11/users/njsg
(???) egistered Linux User #402207 - http://counter.li.org
(???) =-=-
(???) `Now we'll have to kill you.''
(???) -- Linus Torvalds
(???)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Sun Aug 10 02:07:46 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
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(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,DKIM_SIGNED,SPF_HELO_PASS,
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
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(???) ate: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 17:04:49 -0700 (PDT)
(???) rom: JumpJet Mailbox <jumpjetinfo@yahoo.com>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
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(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Gopherness
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(???) ow would we print a Gopher retreived text document on, for example, an older (or mini-mainframe) computer which only uses a Daisy Wheel Printer or Teletype Printer (which ONLY supports ASCII characters)?
(???) -- On Mon, 8/4/08, Nuno J. Silva <nunojsilva@ist.utl.pt> wrote:
(???) rom: Nuno J. Silva <nunojsilva@ist.utl.pt>
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Gopherness
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) ate: Monday, August 4, 2008, 2:08 PM
(???) Jay Nemrow" <jnemrow@quix.us> writes:
(???) On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 10:19 AM, Kyevan <kyevan@sinedev.org> wrote:
(???) > What about older clients, though? Modern clients will probably handle
(???) > UTF-8 at least well enough to not explode, but older clients might
(???) ot.
(???) > Generally, it seems safest to stick to the subset that is ASCII when
(???) > reasonable, only using UTF-8 or such when it's actually needed.
(???) .. is a
(???) > perfectly readable replacement for U+2026, even if it's not
(???) > "typographically correct." On the other hand, if you're
(???) rying to post a
(???) > text in, say, a mix of Arabic, and Klingon, go right ahead and use
(???) > UTF-8.
(TN3) here are also these iso* charsets which just use 8 bit to encode the
(???) ext, not allowing a greater collection of characters, and using those
(???) ou wouldn't be able to mix charsets.
(???) or iso*, AFAIK, some sort of character detection, or configuration
(???) ould be required on the client side (it is possible to do that getting
(???) he document language using gopher+ - and URLs pointing to the specific
(???) iew (even if it is just one) would be required to autodetect when
(???) rowsing a non-ASCII URL). utf8 will have to be supported, for the small
(???) but not zero) scenarios in which two non-ASCII alphabets are mixed in
(???) he same text, and auto-detect would fail (unless a special language
(???) ode is used for mixed-language documents, or if the client handles more
(???) han one non-english language (if it is allowed to specify more than one
n the gopher+ attributes) as utf8).
(???) n the other hand, even if the choice was utf8 (so the documents would
(???) e ASCII or utf8), I'd keep iso* support, just in case (therefore my
(???) uestion is 'should we use the same sort of character encoding when
(PNG) ublishing non-english documents? if yes, which one?' and not 'what
(SND) hould a client support?').
(???) hat's the actual scenario? Is there any client which crashes due to
(???) tf8? Which clients are not able to render it correctly? And what about
so* charsets support?
(???) snip/>
(???) If we do a version of Gopher which is basically new (adding UTF-8 or
(???) MIME or whatever), I think we should ask for and get a new port
(???) assignment for it. If you wanted Goph08, send the request through a
(???) Goph08 port number. Gopher request continue to go through port 70.
(???) Just have your server listen on two ports instead of one, using the
(???) old idea that if you are using a different protocol (essentially), you
(???) should use a different port. (Crazy idea, I know.) I guess this gets
(???) back to an old point, which is that a modern version of Gopher is
(???) essentially a new protocol and should be treated as such. If you guys
(???) want to change Gopher to "improve" it, it ceases to be Gopher.
(???) "Updated" nostalgia is not nostalgia at all.
(???) dding a new way to do the mime part would be a reason to make another
(???) ersion of the gopher protocol, or a protocol under a different name,
(???) ut about utf8, it's not about gopher, it's about the way text is
(???) endered by the client, not requiring any change in the protocol.
(???) -
(???) uno J. Silva (aka njsg)
(???) EIC student at Instituto Superior Técnico
(???) isbon, Portugal
(???) omepage: http://njsg.no.sapo.pt/
(???) opherspace: gopher://sdf-eu.org/11/users/njsg
(???) egistered Linux User #402207 - http://counter.li.org
(???) =-=-
(???) `Now we'll have to kill you.''
(???) -- Linus Torvalds
(???)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Sun Aug 10 02:20:38 2008
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(???) eceived: from [209.216.94.5] by web35707.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 09 Aug 2008 17:17:49 PDT
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(???) ate: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 17:17:49 -0700 (PDT)
(???) rom: JumpJet Mailbox <jumpjetinfo@yahoo.com>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <e78c27470808041230w4a955100xa5decd27ed3ac7cd@mail.gmail.com>
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(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
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(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Gopherness
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
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(???) tatus: O
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(???) ow this is only my opinion, but what I see in many of these threads is a basic lack of understanding of what Gopher0 currently is. Before we move forward, we MUST see where we are. What exaclty DO our EXISTING Servers and Clients recognize or ignore? What exactly ARE the consistently implemented Gopher Protocol standards (if any)? If I choose to use one of the little used features on my Existing Gopher Server, is it actually compatible wit the majority of Existing Gopher Clients?
(???)
(???) ets get some facts together. Lets test our EXISTING Servers and Clients, and create some tables that list features, abilities, etc.; so we can perhaps write a TRUE RFC that sets true STANDARDS that all Gopher0 Protocol Servers and Clients (both OLD and new) MUST adhere to!
(???) -- On Mon, 8/4/08, Jay Nemrow <jnemrow@quix.us> wrote:
(???) rom: Jay Nemrow <jnemrow@quix.us>
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Gopherness
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) ate: Monday, August 4, 2008, 3:30 PM
(IMG) don't doubt the usefulness of a new gopher-ish protocol especially
(???) hen compared with Gopher, that was a comparative (to FTP) lightweight
(???) hen it was created. I don't say that people shouldn't create new
(???) hings, but to change the protocol means that the old one is gone.
(???) aput. Old clients will not work anymore (with "updated" servers)
(???) nd
(???) o one is supposed to care that they don't work anymore. Gopher has
(???) een somewhat unique because it is still useful in spite of being
(???) rozen in time. Ten year old c64 clients still work with gopher
(SND) ervers and you can access a file (if you want to) through gopher.
(???) uilding clients and servers are a great beginning work in socket
(PNG) rogramming before you graduate to tougher protocols. I have given
(???) hese justifications before and I tire of bringing them up time and
(???) ime again.
(???) hen you talk to port 70, an internet server expects to converse in
(???) opher. This is established and has been for years. If you want to
(SND) peak another protocol, get yourself another port. This is also the
(???) stablished way to handle new protocols that refuse to be
(???) ackward-compatible with established protocols.
(IMG) f you guys who want an essentially new protocol go off and do that,
t hurts no one. gopher continues and whatever work you produce can
(PNG) ress forward. If you want your servers to do gopher, your new
(PNG) rotocol, and a few others, that is wonderful and great and you have
(???) uch precedent for your work, as there are gopher/web servers out
(???) here. I say, go for it.
(IMG) f you people insist on breaking old gopher clients and servers, you
(???) re being destructive and people who prefer the original protocol and
(???) ike to serve content viewable on 80s era computers will be cut off.
(???) opher will no longer do that job. I think it would be rather
(DOC) isingenuous to call the new protocol gopher, as it will not be what
(???) MN produced (sounds like it won't work with it, either) and what they
(???) amed after their mascot. It almost smacks of trademark infringement
(???) though that is probably a stretch) to break the original.
(???) y basic question is: Must Gopher0 be destroyed (or broken) for
(PNG) eople to find happiness here? Can't you guys make a new name and
(???) egister a new port assignment along with creating your new gopher-ish
(PNG) rotocol?
(IMG) f Avery wants a new mailing list, I propose that it be created with
(???) he intent of talking about the "New" gopher. That is always what
(???) ustified a new mailing list in the past - taking a new direction.
(???) n Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 11:54 AM, Kyevan <kyevan@sinedev.org> wrote:
(???) Jay Nemrow wrote:
(???) > "Updated" nostalgia is not nostalgia at all.
(???)
(???) Sure, but an improved Gopher could have practical uses. I think,
(???) perhaps, it might be a better idea to start from nearly scratch and
(???) create a new protocol that takes the best ideas from Gopher (the
(???) simplicity of the client! the structured layout!) and add and modifies
(???) features that we feel would be useful (Replace the limited item type
(???) system with something based on MIME types (which has the useful fallback
(???) of "display unknown text/* types as text, everything else unknown
(SND) hould
(???) be treated as application/octet-stream"), sending some metadata in
(???) he
(???) response, perhaps define a way to send requests with data).
(???)
(???) This is different than extending Gopher in that we DON'T worry about
(???) backwards compatibility - at least, not on the protocol level. Servers
(???) that speak both Gopher and Comepher (or another bad pun, since those
(???) seem to be inevitable) would be a Good Thing.
(???)
(???)
(???)
(???)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Sun Aug 10 02:20:58 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,DKIM_SIGNED,SPF_HELO_PASS,
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 02:20:58 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
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(???) eceived: from web35707.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([66.163.179.161])
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(???) h=Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Message-ID;
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(???) eceived: from [209.216.94.5] by web35707.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 09 Aug 2008 17:17:49 PDT
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(???) ate: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 17:17:49 -0700 (PDT)
(???) rom: JumpJet Mailbox <jumpjetinfo@yahoo.com>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <e78c27470808041230w4a955100xa5decd27ed3ac7cd@mail.gmail.com>
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
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(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sat, 09 Aug 2008 19:18:00 -0500
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(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
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(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sat, 09 Aug 2008 19:18:12 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Gopherness
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 148
(???) ow this is only my opinion, but what I see in many of these threads is a basic lack of understanding of what Gopher0 currently is. Before we move forward, we MUST see where we are. What exaclty DO our EXISTING Servers and Clients recognize or ignore? What exactly ARE the consistently implemented Gopher Protocol standards (if any)? If I choose to use one of the little used features on my Existing Gopher Server, is it actually compatible wit the majority of Existing Gopher Clients?
(???)
(???) ets get some facts together. Lets test our EXISTING Servers and Clients, and create some tables that list features, abilities, etc.; so we can perhaps write a TRUE RFC that sets true STANDARDS that all Gopher0 Protocol Servers and Clients (both OLD and new) MUST adhere to!
(???) -- On Mon, 8/4/08, Jay Nemrow <jnemrow@quix.us> wrote:
(???) rom: Jay Nemrow <jnemrow@quix.us>
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Gopherness
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) ate: Monday, August 4, 2008, 3:30 PM
(IMG) don't doubt the usefulness of a new gopher-ish protocol especially
(???) hen compared with Gopher, that was a comparative (to FTP) lightweight
(???) hen it was created. I don't say that people shouldn't create new
(???) hings, but to change the protocol means that the old one is gone.
(???) aput. Old clients will not work anymore (with "updated" servers)
(???) nd
(???) o one is supposed to care that they don't work anymore. Gopher has
(???) een somewhat unique because it is still useful in spite of being
(???) rozen in time. Ten year old c64 clients still work with gopher
(SND) ervers and you can access a file (if you want to) through gopher.
(???) uilding clients and servers are a great beginning work in socket
(PNG) rogramming before you graduate to tougher protocols. I have given
(???) hese justifications before and I tire of bringing them up time and
(???) ime again.
(???) hen you talk to port 70, an internet server expects to converse in
(???) opher. This is established and has been for years. If you want to
(SND) peak another protocol, get yourself another port. This is also the
(???) stablished way to handle new protocols that refuse to be
(???) ackward-compatible with established protocols.
(IMG) f you guys who want an essentially new protocol go off and do that,
t hurts no one. gopher continues and whatever work you produce can
(PNG) ress forward. If you want your servers to do gopher, your new
(PNG) rotocol, and a few others, that is wonderful and great and you have
(???) uch precedent for your work, as there are gopher/web servers out
(???) here. I say, go for it.
(IMG) f you people insist on breaking old gopher clients and servers, you
(???) re being destructive and people who prefer the original protocol and
(???) ike to serve content viewable on 80s era computers will be cut off.
(???) opher will no longer do that job. I think it would be rather
(DOC) isingenuous to call the new protocol gopher, as it will not be what
(???) MN produced (sounds like it won't work with it, either) and what they
(???) amed after their mascot. It almost smacks of trademark infringement
(???) though that is probably a stretch) to break the original.
(???) y basic question is: Must Gopher0 be destroyed (or broken) for
(PNG) eople to find happiness here? Can't you guys make a new name and
(???) egister a new port assignment along with creating your new gopher-ish
(PNG) rotocol?
(IMG) f Avery wants a new mailing list, I propose that it be created with
(???) he intent of talking about the "New" gopher. That is always what
(???) ustified a new mailing list in the past - taking a new direction.
(???) n Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 11:54 AM, Kyevan <kyevan@sinedev.org> wrote:
(???) Jay Nemrow wrote:
(???) > "Updated" nostalgia is not nostalgia at all.
(???)
(???) Sure, but an improved Gopher could have practical uses. I think,
(???) perhaps, it might be a better idea to start from nearly scratch and
(???) create a new protocol that takes the best ideas from Gopher (the
(???) simplicity of the client! the structured layout!) and add and modifies
(???) features that we feel would be useful (Replace the limited item type
(???) system with something based on MIME types (which has the useful fallback
(???) of "display unknown text/* types as text, everything else unknown
(SND) hould
(???) be treated as application/octet-stream"), sending some metadata in
(???) he
(???) response, perhaps define a way to send requests with data).
(???)
(???) This is different than extending Gopher in that we DON'T worry about
(???) backwards compatibility - at least, not on the protocol level. Servers
(???) that speak both Gopher and Comepher (or another bad pun, since those
(???) seem to be inevitable) would be a Good Thing.
(???)
(???)
(???)
(???)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Sun Aug 10 03:03:16 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
(???) elivery-date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 03:03:16 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Sat, 09 Aug 2008 19:59:22 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from floodgap.com ([66.159.214.137] ident=elvis)
(???) eceived: (from spectre@localhost)
(???) rom: Cameron Kaiser <spectre@floodgap.com>
(???) essage-Id: <200808100059.m7A0xHMW003366@floodgap.com>
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <814740.44927.qm@web35705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> from JumpJet Mailbox at "Aug 9, 8 03:58:35 pm"
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) ate: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 17:59:17 -0700 (PDT)
(???) -Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)]
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(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sat, 09 Aug 2008 19:59:31 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Item Type Suggestions
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 149
(???) Cameron,
(???) Since you have access to an Alpha Server, can you please test (and write a
(???) review for) the GSAPLHA Gopher Server?
(IMG) t's not an DEC Alpha server, it's an Alpha Micro server. This is a
(UUE) 8000-based quasi-mini architecture running AMOS. I'm not aware of a gopher
(???) lient for it, but incredibly it does have a web server. If you want to
(SND) ee what it does, I do have it connected to my firewall.
(IMG) could probably write a Gopher client in AlphaBASIC but I think that
(???) ould have an even smaller audience than one for the C64 :) Also, I don't
(???) hink I have TAME installed in the machine for the BASIC calls.
(???) -
(???) ----------------------------------- personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
(???) Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser@floodgap.com
(???) - Well done is better than well said. -- Benjamin Franklin -------------------
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Sun Aug 10 03:03:25 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 03:03:25 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Sat, 09 Aug 2008 19:59:22 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from floodgap.com ([66.159.214.137] ident=elvis)
(???) eceived: (from spectre@localhost)
(???) rom: Cameron Kaiser <spectre@floodgap.com>
(???) essage-Id: <200808100059.m7A0xHMW003366@floodgap.com>
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <814740.44927.qm@web35705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> from JumpJet Mailbox at "Aug 9, 8 03:58:35 pm"
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) ate: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 17:59:17 -0700 (PDT)
(???) -Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)]
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(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sat, 09 Aug 2008 19:59:31 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Item Type Suggestions
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 150
(???) Cameron,
(???) Since you have access to an Alpha Server, can you please test (and write a
(???) review for) the GSAPLHA Gopher Server?
(IMG) t's not an DEC Alpha server, it's an Alpha Micro server. This is a
(UUE) 8000-based quasi-mini architecture running AMOS. I'm not aware of a gopher
(???) lient for it, but incredibly it does have a web server. If you want to
(SND) ee what it does, I do have it connected to my firewall.
(IMG) could probably write a Gopher client in AlphaBASIC but I think that
(???) ould have an even smaller audience than one for the C64 :) Also, I don't
(???) hink I have TAME installed in the machine for the BASIC calls.
(???) -
(???) ----------------------------------- personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
(???) Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser@floodgap.com
(???) - Well done is better than well said. -- Benjamin Franklin -------------------
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Sun Aug 10 04:34:50 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,DKIM_SIGNED,SPF_HELO_PASS,
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
(???) elivery-date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 04:34:50 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
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(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
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(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Fate of the Protocol (was Re: Gopherness)
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(TN3) his NewsGroup is available via Gopher at:
(GIF) opher://gopher.quux.org/1/Archives/Mailing%20Lists/gopher
(???) -- On Tue, 8/5/08, Jay Nemrow <jnemrow@quix.us> wrote:
(???) rom: Jay Nemrow <jnemrow@quix.us>
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Fate of the Protocol (was Re: Gopherness)
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) ate: Tuesday, August 5, 2008, 11:43 AM
(???) n Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 3:20 PM, Avery M. <averym@gmail.com> wrote:
(???) On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 4:54 PM, Jay Nemrow <jnemrow@quix.us> wrote:
(???) > Actually, I have to disagree with the fate of the RFC. If those who
(???) > want to change the protocol insist on using port 70 and
(???) obsolete" the
(???) > RFC through creating a replacement, Gopher will essentially disappear
(???) > as an established service.
(???)
(???) Not true. I will simply remove all links to any server using a
(???) different protocol. While using port 70 to serve a different protocol
(???) is rude and violates widely observed RFC decorum, it would only take a
(???) minute or two to remove links to innovative servers; using this list
(???) to discuss innovations is even worse because it clogs up my inbox. If
(IMG) don't mind the innovations as long as they don't break old clients.
(IMG) plan on running a vanilla gopher0 server as long as I have resources
(???) o do so, so as long as new clients can still talk gopher0, I could
(???) are less about the rest.
(???) anyone insists on discussing this here and refuses to create a new
(???) list, please let me know now so I can add you to my spam filter.
(???) s for the discussions, if we are not discussing innovations, what on
(???) arth would we be discussing on a gopher list? This would be as dead
(???) s the gopher newsgroup often is. Sounds as if you would like a
(???) ery-low-volume list, so you might consider following the newsgroup
nstead of this mailing list.
(???)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Sun Aug 10 04:35:01 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
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(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,DKIM_SIGNED,SPF_HELO_PASS,
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 04:35:01 +0200
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(???) ate: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 19:29:46 -0700 (PDT)
(???) rom: JumpJet Mailbox <jumpjetinfo@yahoo.com>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <e78c27470808050843t3059e554y235fb9e4348fb767@mail.gmail.com>
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(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sat, 09 Aug 2008 21:30:07 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Fate of the Protocol (was Re: Gopherness)
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
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(TN3) his NewsGroup is available via Gopher at:
(GIF) opher://gopher.quux.org/1/Archives/Mailing%20Lists/gopher
(???) -- On Tue, 8/5/08, Jay Nemrow <jnemrow@quix.us> wrote:
(???) rom: Jay Nemrow <jnemrow@quix.us>
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Fate of the Protocol (was Re: Gopherness)
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) ate: Tuesday, August 5, 2008, 11:43 AM
(???) n Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 3:20 PM, Avery M. <averym@gmail.com> wrote:
(???) On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 4:54 PM, Jay Nemrow <jnemrow@quix.us> wrote:
(???) > Actually, I have to disagree with the fate of the RFC. If those who
(???) > want to change the protocol insist on using port 70 and
(???) obsolete" the
(???) > RFC through creating a replacement, Gopher will essentially disappear
(???) > as an established service.
(???)
(???) Not true. I will simply remove all links to any server using a
(???) different protocol. While using port 70 to serve a different protocol
(???) is rude and violates widely observed RFC decorum, it would only take a
(???) minute or two to remove links to innovative servers; using this list
(???) to discuss innovations is even worse because it clogs up my inbox. If
(IMG) don't mind the innovations as long as they don't break old clients.
(IMG) plan on running a vanilla gopher0 server as long as I have resources
(???) o do so, so as long as new clients can still talk gopher0, I could
(???) are less about the rest.
(???) anyone insists on discussing this here and refuses to create a new
(???) list, please let me know now so I can add you to my spam filter.
(???) s for the discussions, if we are not discussing innovations, what on
(???) arth would we be discussing on a gopher list? This would be as dead
(???) s the gopher newsgroup often is. Sounds as if you would like a
(???) ery-low-volume list, so you might consider following the newsgroup
nstead of this mailing list.
(???)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Sun Aug 10 04:42:13 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
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(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,DKIM_SIGNED,SPF_HELO_PASS,
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
(???) elivery-date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 04:42:13 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Sat, 09 Aug 2008 21:37:37 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from web35706.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([66.163.179.160])
(???) eceived: (qmail 59829 invoked by uid 60001); 10 Aug 2008 02:37:26 -0000
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(???) ate: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 19:37:26 -0700 (PDT)
(???) rom: JumpJet Mailbox <jumpjetinfo@yahoo.com>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <3c8abce30808051139qcc395abqe20bd89047244d9@mail.gmail.com>
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(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sat, 09 Aug 2008 21:37:47 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Fate of the Protocol (was Re: Gopherness)
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
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(???) -UID: 153
(???) ou might want to carry an "Internet Free Zone" link on your personal homepage
(HTM) ttp://www.arachnoid.com/freezone/index.html
(???) -- On Tue, 8/5/08, Matthew Holevinski <eylusion@gmail.com> wrote:
(???) rom: Matthew Holevinski <eylusion@gmail.com>
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Fate of the Protocol (was Re: Gopherness)
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) ate: Tuesday, August 5, 2008, 2:39 PM
(IMG) can humbly tell you why i want to use it, because I'm sick of banner
(???) ds, I'm sick of pop ups, I'm sick of pointless news articles i care
(???) othing about, i'm sick of web 2.0, i'm sick of signing up on 20,000
(???) ebsites to read a forum article, or use a service, i'm absolutely
(???) ust inundated with sickness with everything the web has become. I use
(???) he internet for 1 purpose to further my understanding of all things
(???) hat I normally would not be able to learn about anywhere else. I'm
(???) ot going to goto college when all I want is the book, I'm not going
(???) o go to the library because it's incomplete, their are only so many
(???) ooks in the library and most of them are fiction, I despise fiction
(???) ith a passion that the likes of which god has never seen. I'm sick of
(???) verything becoming bloated, we all remember that quaint little 9.6
(???) aud modem, and Gopher caterred to that, just text not extensive
(???) mounts of graphics and multimedia clogging up my bandwidth. Yes it's
(???) ice having a 12meg cable connection, BUT if every gosh darn website I
(GIF) oto has an index page that forces me to download 10 megs of
nformation, it's pointless. Just like hardware, yes it's nice having
(???) quad proc board with 4 quad core processors 12gigs of ram, 3 video
(???) ards, etc, etc. when just simply running Winword.exe on a new vista
(???) achine probably consumes 200 megs of memory, i'm sorry Notepad for me
(???) hank you. Sleek, elegant, efficient, simple, worse is better
(PNG) rogramming for me thank you.
(TN3) hat's why i want gopher to regain a foothold on the internet, i'm not
(???) ludgeoned to death with meeting singles in my local area, i'm not
(???) astrated with thousands of sign up pages just to get at the
nformation I want. Just a simple gopher:// go here, click this, read
(???) hat, and i'm done.
(???) att
(???) n Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 1:23 PM, Roman Pavlov <webmaster@ankylym.ru>
(???) rote:
(???) Kyevan wrote:
(???) > Are you offering to host a new list? Not everyone has the resources to
(???) > do so, you know. And of course you wouldn't want to use port 70 to
(SND) erve
(???) > notgopher, that would be silly. The best idea seems to be to modify
(???) he
(???) > Gopher protocol in non-backwards-compatible ways (adding headers of
(SND) ome
(???) > sort to ever resource grab seems to be the big change every other
(DOC) esire
(???) > relies on)
(???)
(???) -- And what's the difference from HTTP then? One can easily use apache
(???) directory listings to get "gopher with headers".
(???)
(???) Here's my opinion on this topic, sorry if I'm repeating someone:
(???)
(???) First, it is really strange that people on gopher list are discussing
(???) not how to support the protocol, but how to replace it. I don't mind
f
(???) someone develops a new protocol and will be running servers on another
(???) port, but who actually needs it? How it will be promoted? Gopher atleast
(???) has a solid historical background and mentioned in /etc/services files
(???) all over the world. Currently, there are about, say, 1% of internet
(???) users who tried gopher (maybe still an exaggeration) - how much of them
(???) really need changing the protocol, ever thought about it?
(???)
(???) Then, if we still want some changes, I wonder why everyone is so
(???) reluctant to use gopher+ which already has most of these improvements,
(???) like mime types support, implemented even better than in HTTP (user can
(???) choose which mime type to retrieve). However, mime types are technical
(???) slang, and item types is what average end user cares about: not gif,
(???) jpeg, png, but just image and that's all. In this perspective gopher0
s
(???) more user-friendly than gopher+ or HTTP.
(???)
(???) As for myself, I feel happy without headers, mime types and even gopher+
(???) (only using it in testing purposes with UMN gopherd). The only thing
(???) that needs improvement is UTF-8 support in clients. But this is not a
(???) protocol level problem.
(???)
(???) > The real reason to do this is only to try to hit a middle ground
(???) etween
(???) > http and gopher, really. HTTP is huge, unwieldy, and powerful, while
(???) > gopher is small, simple, and arguably less powerful. Trying to hit a
(???) > balance so we can handle some more complex things (like download
(???) > progress indicators and passing files to the right program on the
(???) lient
(???) > side) while still keeping things simple enough that cheap, simple (or
(???) > old) hardware is still all you need to get the basic features out of
t.
(???) >
(???) > I suppose there's also the gopher+ route of adding extra fields
(???) which
(???) > actually might be a better option), but is there any way to do that
(???) hen
(???) > you send a magic string? It'd be really nice if a client
(DOC) idn't have to
(???) > know the item type for something before it requested it, but if we
(???) eep
(???) > serving on port 70, we obviously have to send that information in such
(???)
(???) > way that it doesn't confuse old clients.
(???) >
(???) >
(???) >
(???)
(???)
(???)
(???)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Sun Aug 10 04:42:33 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
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(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 04:42:33 +0200
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(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
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(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
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(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Fate of the Protocol (was Re: Gopherness)
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(???) ou might want to carry an "Internet Free Zone" link on your personal homepage
(HTM) ttp://www.arachnoid.com/freezone/index.html
(???) -- On Tue, 8/5/08, Matthew Holevinski <eylusion@gmail.com> wrote:
(???) rom: Matthew Holevinski <eylusion@gmail.com>
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Fate of the Protocol (was Re: Gopherness)
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) ate: Tuesday, August 5, 2008, 2:39 PM
(IMG) can humbly tell you why i want to use it, because I'm sick of banner
(???) ds, I'm sick of pop ups, I'm sick of pointless news articles i care
(???) othing about, i'm sick of web 2.0, i'm sick of signing up on 20,000
(???) ebsites to read a forum article, or use a service, i'm absolutely
(???) ust inundated with sickness with everything the web has become. I use
(???) he internet for 1 purpose to further my understanding of all things
(???) hat I normally would not be able to learn about anywhere else. I'm
(???) ot going to goto college when all I want is the book, I'm not going
(???) o go to the library because it's incomplete, their are only so many
(???) ooks in the library and most of them are fiction, I despise fiction
(???) ith a passion that the likes of which god has never seen. I'm sick of
(???) verything becoming bloated, we all remember that quaint little 9.6
(???) aud modem, and Gopher caterred to that, just text not extensive
(???) mounts of graphics and multimedia clogging up my bandwidth. Yes it's
(???) ice having a 12meg cable connection, BUT if every gosh darn website I
(GIF) oto has an index page that forces me to download 10 megs of
nformation, it's pointless. Just like hardware, yes it's nice having
(???) quad proc board with 4 quad core processors 12gigs of ram, 3 video
(???) ards, etc, etc. when just simply running Winword.exe on a new vista
(???) achine probably consumes 200 megs of memory, i'm sorry Notepad for me
(???) hank you. Sleek, elegant, efficient, simple, worse is better
(PNG) rogramming for me thank you.
(TN3) hat's why i want gopher to regain a foothold on the internet, i'm not
(???) ludgeoned to death with meeting singles in my local area, i'm not
(???) astrated with thousands of sign up pages just to get at the
nformation I want. Just a simple gopher:// go here, click this, read
(???) hat, and i'm done.
(???) att
(???) n Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 1:23 PM, Roman Pavlov <webmaster@ankylym.ru>
(???) rote:
(???) Kyevan wrote:
(???) > Are you offering to host a new list? Not everyone has the resources to
(???) > do so, you know. And of course you wouldn't want to use port 70 to
(SND) erve
(???) > notgopher, that would be silly. The best idea seems to be to modify
(???) he
(???) > Gopher protocol in non-backwards-compatible ways (adding headers of
(SND) ome
(???) > sort to ever resource grab seems to be the big change every other
(DOC) esire
(???) > relies on)
(???)
(???) -- And what's the difference from HTTP then? One can easily use apache
(???) directory listings to get "gopher with headers".
(???)
(???) Here's my opinion on this topic, sorry if I'm repeating someone:
(???)
(???) First, it is really strange that people on gopher list are discussing
(???) not how to support the protocol, but how to replace it. I don't mind
f
(???) someone develops a new protocol and will be running servers on another
(???) port, but who actually needs it? How it will be promoted? Gopher atleast
(???) has a solid historical background and mentioned in /etc/services files
(???) all over the world. Currently, there are about, say, 1% of internet
(???) users who tried gopher (maybe still an exaggeration) - how much of them
(???) really need changing the protocol, ever thought about it?
(???)
(???) Then, if we still want some changes, I wonder why everyone is so
(???) reluctant to use gopher+ which already has most of these improvements,
(???) like mime types support, implemented even better than in HTTP (user can
(???) choose which mime type to retrieve). However, mime types are technical
(???) slang, and item types is what average end user cares about: not gif,
(???) jpeg, png, but just image and that's all. In this perspective gopher0
s
(???) more user-friendly than gopher+ or HTTP.
(???)
(???) As for myself, I feel happy without headers, mime types and even gopher+
(???) (only using it in testing purposes with UMN gopherd). The only thing
(???) that needs improvement is UTF-8 support in clients. But this is not a
(???) protocol level problem.
(???)
(???) > The real reason to do this is only to try to hit a middle ground
(???) etween
(???) > http and gopher, really. HTTP is huge, unwieldy, and powerful, while
(???) > gopher is small, simple, and arguably less powerful. Trying to hit a
(???) > balance so we can handle some more complex things (like download
(???) > progress indicators and passing files to the right program on the
(???) lient
(???) > side) while still keeping things simple enough that cheap, simple (or
(???) > old) hardware is still all you need to get the basic features out of
t.
(???) >
(???) > I suppose there's also the gopher+ route of adding extra fields
(???) which
(???) > actually might be a better option), but is there any way to do that
(???) hen
(???) > you send a magic string? It'd be really nice if a client
(DOC) idn't have to
(???) > know the item type for something before it requested it, but if we
(???) eep
(???) > serving on port 70, we obviously have to send that information in such
(???)
(???) > way that it doesn't confuse old clients.
(???) >
(???) >
(???) >
(???)
(???)
(???)
(???)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Sun Aug 10 05:13:43 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
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(???) rom: JumpJet Mailbox <jumpjetinfo@yahoo.com>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <3c8abce30808051226v6b31d030n2d0576d79c908c3c@mail.gmail.com>
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(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Fate of the Protocol (was Re: Gopherness)
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(???) ou mean like the "BROKEN" link to Project Gutenberg:
(GIF) opher://gopher.quux.org/1/Archives/
(???)
(???) r perhaps the empty link to Online Libraries:
(GIF) opher://gopher.quux.org/1/Reference%09%09%2B
(???)
(???) es, that was a bit sarcastic, but seriously, maybe we should begin by just taking baby steps... such as keeping our own Servers up to date?
(GIF) opher://gopher.quux.org/1/Archives/Mailing%20Lists/gopher
(GIF) opher://hal3000.cx/1/Phlog%09%09%2B
(???)
(???) r perhaps by helping fellow Gopher Wranglers in that effort by suggesting to them New Links, and reporting any Broken Links that appear on their Servers:
(GIF) opher://home.jumpjet.info/1\Gopher_Jewels_2
(???)
(???) Of course, you can't communicate with a Gopher Wrangler if they don't bother to put their contact information somewhere on the Server)!!!
(???)
(???) -- On Tue, 8/5/08, Matthew Holevinski <eylusion@gmail.com> wrote:
(???) rom: Matthew Holevinski <eylusion@gmail.com>
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Fate of the Protocol (was Re: Gopherness)
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) ate: Tuesday, August 5, 2008, 3:26 PM
(???) ait I'm sorry, I hate to keep sending emails :)
(???) hat about the electronic library movements? I figure that is something
(GIF) opher could help with, veronica for indexing of books or what not, and then
(DOC) ownloading the texts from gopher servers would be pretty slick in my book
(???) ot that I like reading full texts from a computer screen as I don't
(SND) uppose
(???) any do, but it seems to me that is a viable function gopher could serve.
(???) att
(???) n Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 2:24 PM, Matthew Holevinski <eylusion@gmail.com>
(???) rote:
(???) Jay, I am realistic on this topic, I really am, your right it'll never
(???) egain
(???) a foothold, but while I'm still around I'll use it, if I can.
(???)
(???) Matt
(???)
(???) On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 2:05 PM, Avery M. <averym@gmail.com> wrote:
(???) > On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 2:56 PM, Jay Nemrow <jnemrow@quix.us>
(???) rote:
(???) >> I can't see your vision ever happening. Gopher is essentially
(DOC) ead to
(???) >> nearly everyone, if they even knew it ever lived. Apparently, we
(???) ust
(???) >> never attended the funeral.
(???) >
(???) > This is overly pessimistic. I maintain a gopher because I like the
(???) > undemanding nature of the protocol. Unlike HTTP, whose cognitive style
(???) > rewards distraction and skimming, Gopher gives you a decidedly
(???) > un-hyper text file and then it's done. I believe other people
(SND) hould
(???) > maintain gophers as well, and to that end this list is useful.
(???) >
(???) >
(???) >
(???)
(???)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Sun Aug 10 05:13:56 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
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(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
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(???) ate: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 20:11:17 -0700 (PDT)
(???) rom: JumpJet Mailbox <jumpjetinfo@yahoo.com>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <3c8abce30808051226v6b31d030n2d0576d79c908c3c@mail.gmail.com>
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(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Fate of the Protocol (was Re: Gopherness)
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
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(???) -UID: 156
(???) ou mean like the "BROKEN" link to Project Gutenberg:
(GIF) opher://gopher.quux.org/1/Archives/
(???)
(???) r perhaps the empty link to Online Libraries:
(GIF) opher://gopher.quux.org/1/Reference%09%09%2B
(???)
(???) es, that was a bit sarcastic, but seriously, maybe we should begin by just taking baby steps... such as keeping our own Servers up to date?
(GIF) opher://gopher.quux.org/1/Archives/Mailing%20Lists/gopher
(GIF) opher://hal3000.cx/1/Phlog%09%09%2B
(???)
(???) r perhaps by helping fellow Gopher Wranglers in that effort by suggesting to them New Links, and reporting any Broken Links that appear on their Servers:
(GIF) opher://home.jumpjet.info/1\Gopher_Jewels_2
(???)
(???) Of course, you can't communicate with a Gopher Wrangler if they don't bother to put their contact information somewhere on the Server)!!!
(???)
(???) -- On Tue, 8/5/08, Matthew Holevinski <eylusion@gmail.com> wrote:
(???) rom: Matthew Holevinski <eylusion@gmail.com>
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Fate of the Protocol (was Re: Gopherness)
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) ate: Tuesday, August 5, 2008, 3:26 PM
(???) ait I'm sorry, I hate to keep sending emails :)
(???) hat about the electronic library movements? I figure that is something
(GIF) opher could help with, veronica for indexing of books or what not, and then
(DOC) ownloading the texts from gopher servers would be pretty slick in my book
(???) ot that I like reading full texts from a computer screen as I don't
(SND) uppose
(???) any do, but it seems to me that is a viable function gopher could serve.
(???) att
(???) n Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 2:24 PM, Matthew Holevinski <eylusion@gmail.com>
(???) rote:
(???) Jay, I am realistic on this topic, I really am, your right it'll never
(???) egain
(???) a foothold, but while I'm still around I'll use it, if I can.
(???)
(???) Matt
(???)
(???) On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 2:05 PM, Avery M. <averym@gmail.com> wrote:
(???) > On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 2:56 PM, Jay Nemrow <jnemrow@quix.us>
(???) rote:
(???) >> I can't see your vision ever happening. Gopher is essentially
(DOC) ead to
(???) >> nearly everyone, if they even knew it ever lived. Apparently, we
(???) ust
(???) >> never attended the funeral.
(???) >
(???) > This is overly pessimistic. I maintain a gopher because I like the
(???) > undemanding nature of the protocol. Unlike HTTP, whose cognitive style
(???) > rewards distraction and skimming, Gopher gives you a decidedly
(???) > un-hyper text file and then it's done. I believe other people
(SND) hould
(???) > maintain gophers as well, and to that end this list is useful.
(???) >
(???) >
(???) >
(???)
(???)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Sun Aug 10 05:20:14 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
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(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
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(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sat, 09 Aug 2008 22:18:29 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: released: mgod 1.0
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
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(???) hy don't you test the Clients to find out? They are all located at:
(GIF) opher://home.jumpjet.info/11\Begin_Here\Clients
(???) -- On Fri, 8/8/08, Kyevan <kyevan@sinedev.org> wrote:
(???) rom: Kyevan <kyevan@sinedev.org>
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: released: mgod 1.0
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) ate: Friday, August 8, 2008, 3:53 PM
(???) ameron Kaiser wrote:
(???) > Hulloh,
(???) > announcing: mgod 1.0
(???) > Major changes since previous versions:
(???) > - Gopher+ support removed (\t$ selector detection remains,
(???) ehaves
(???) >
(???)
(???) Why was it removed? Difficulty of maintaining it?
(???) o any clients really support Gopher+, though? (The only one I can
(???) emember hearing of that does expects to be run on Windows 3.1...)
(???) o virus found in this outgoing message.
(???) hecked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
(???) ersion: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.0/1601 - Release Date: 8/8/2008 9:02
(???) M
(???)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Sun Aug 10 05:20:23 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,DKIM_SIGNED,SPF_HELO_PASS,
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 05:20:23 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Sat, 09 Aug 2008 22:18:18 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from web35705.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([66.163.179.159])
(???) eceived: (qmail 17175 invoked by uid 60001); 10 Aug 2008 03:18:08 -0000
(???) omainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
(???) s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
(???) h=Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Message-ID;
(???) b=GPNgib/zQT2R0rSCYKLDcBoI8etyK8I4ffs7IrJHp+lRJh5yvhgE6+8MmIlf0fnfDo0a5uD80qKcNSsXCZct4Ki3n4riG1Nv9UQMearmrOvXQLP0cyCtn6+kSSox48URelBxC0arifMkbenb982VTza/eX04gj6soOJTud91QiU=;
(???) eceived: from [209.216.94.5] by web35705.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 09 Aug 2008 20:18:08 PDT
(???) -Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.218
(???) ate: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 20:18:08 -0700 (PDT)
(???) rom: JumpJet Mailbox <jumpjetinfo@yahoo.com>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <489CA41D.10404@sinedev.org>
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(???) ontent-type: text/plain
(???) essage-ID: <372247.16445.qm@web35705.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sat, 09 Aug 2008 22:18:18 -0500
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
(???) -archive-position: 2373
(???) -ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: jumpjetinfo@yahoo.com
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sat, 09 Aug 2008 22:18:29 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: released: mgod 1.0
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 158
(???) hy don't you test the Clients to find out? They are all located at:
(GIF) opher://home.jumpjet.info/11\Begin_Here\Clients
(???) -- On Fri, 8/8/08, Kyevan <kyevan@sinedev.org> wrote:
(???) rom: Kyevan <kyevan@sinedev.org>
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: released: mgod 1.0
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) ate: Friday, August 8, 2008, 3:53 PM
(???) ameron Kaiser wrote:
(???) > Hulloh,
(???) > announcing: mgod 1.0
(???) > Major changes since previous versions:
(???) > - Gopher+ support removed (\t$ selector detection remains,
(???) ehaves
(???) >
(???)
(???) Why was it removed? Difficulty of maintaining it?
(???) o any clients really support Gopher+, though? (The only one I can
(???) emember hearing of that does expects to be run on Windows 3.1...)
(???) o virus found in this outgoing message.
(???) hecked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
(???) ersion: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.0/1601 - Release Date: 8/8/2008 9:02
(???) M
(???)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Sun Aug 10 05:54:51 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,DKIM_SIGNED,SPF_HELO_PASS,
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
(???) elivery-date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 05:54:51 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Sat, 09 Aug 2008 22:52:38 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from web35702.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([66.163.179.156])
(???) eceived: (qmail 82285 invoked by uid 60001); 10 Aug 2008 03:52:28 -0000
(???) omainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
(???) s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
(???) h=Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Message-ID;
(???) b=bFBd03PRkOfEDs1O4gJBhwuRl00Cq63zOj1OO4JLsGub6Hok+gFD56BwmSxYiKtTIAYsKIR6W1Ut2gloP9qnPFncqlsC9xN1HhC1RsEuGF9xt0sPEqVx3nbL/ILp78R4PEIYP4fymA3XJnT9wjRhT+CptbsIg5uILFvsyc4sfb0=;
(???) eceived: from [209.216.94.5] by web35702.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 09 Aug 2008 20:52:28 PDT
(???) -Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.218
(???) ate: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 20:52:28 -0700 (PDT)
(???) rom: JumpJet Mailbox <jumpjetinfo@yahoo.com>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <200808100059.m7A0xHMW003366@floodgap.com>
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(???) ontent-type: text/plain
(???) essage-ID: <364296.81791.qm@web35702.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sat, 09 Aug 2008 22:52:38 -0500
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
(???) -archive-position: 2374
(???) -ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: jumpjetinfo@yahoo.com
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sat, 09 Aug 2008 22:52:49 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Item Type Suggestions
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 159
(TN3) otally COOL.
(IMG) 'm afraid I'm not completely up on the Micros, so I wasn't aware of this machine. I am so glad to see you are not only keeping one running, but connected to the Internet as well.
(???)
(???) .S., When I was still working in the Valley, they were raiding places like "Weird Stuff" for parts to put together some kind of Computer Museum (I think it was supposed to be at Moffett?). In any event, I heard that they have a place now, and are looking for people with functioning Micros. I don't have any details for them, (and I don't even know what part of the country you hail from), but because you have your machine on the internet (and they therefore can connect with it), you may want to look them up.
(???)
(???) PS,
(IMG) tell you where there IS definately a need for a Gopher Server of some sort, and thats for BeOS (the OS can be run on either a Mac or PC)
(GIF) opher://home.jumpjet.info/11\Treasure\BeOS_Pro_Edition_5
(???)
(???) -- On Sat, 8/9/08, Cameron Kaiser <spectre@floodgap.com> wrote:
(???) rom: Cameron Kaiser <spectre@floodgap.com>
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Item Type Suggestions
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) ate: Saturday, August 9, 2008, 8:59 PM
(???) Cameron,
(???) Since you have access to an Alpha Server, can you please test (and write a
(???) review for) the GSAPLHA Gopher Server?
(IMG) t's not an DEC Alpha server, it's an Alpha Micro server. This is a
(UUE) 8000-based quasi-mini architecture running AMOS. I'm not aware of a gopher
(???) lient for it, but incredibly it does have a web server. If you want to
(SND) ee what it does, I do have it connected to my firewall.
(IMG) could probably write a Gopher client in AlphaBASIC but I think that
(???) ould have an even smaller audience than one for the C64 :) Also, I don't
(???) hink I have TAME installed in the machine for the BASIC calls.
(???) -
(???) ----------------------------------- personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
(???) Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser@floodgap.com
(???) - Well done is better than well said. -- Benjamin Franklin -------------------
(???)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Sun Aug 10 05:55:03 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,DKIM_SIGNED,SPF_HELO_PASS,
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 05:55:03 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Sat, 09 Aug 2008 22:52:38 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from web35702.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([66.163.179.156])
(???) eceived: (qmail 82285 invoked by uid 60001); 10 Aug 2008 03:52:28 -0000
(???) omainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
(???) s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
(???) h=Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Message-ID;
(???) b=bFBd03PRkOfEDs1O4gJBhwuRl00Cq63zOj1OO4JLsGub6Hok+gFD56BwmSxYiKtTIAYsKIR6W1Ut2gloP9qnPFncqlsC9xN1HhC1RsEuGF9xt0sPEqVx3nbL/ILp78R4PEIYP4fymA3XJnT9wjRhT+CptbsIg5uILFvsyc4sfb0=;
(???) eceived: from [209.216.94.5] by web35702.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 09 Aug 2008 20:52:28 PDT
(???) -Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.218
(???) ate: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 20:52:28 -0700 (PDT)
(???) rom: JumpJet Mailbox <jumpjetinfo@yahoo.com>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <200808100059.m7A0xHMW003366@floodgap.com>
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(???) ontent-type: text/plain
(???) essage-ID: <364296.81791.qm@web35702.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sat, 09 Aug 2008 22:52:38 -0500
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
(???) -archive-position: 2374
(???) -ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: jumpjetinfo@yahoo.com
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sat, 09 Aug 2008 22:52:49 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Item Type Suggestions
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 160
(TN3) otally COOL.
(IMG) 'm afraid I'm not completely up on the Micros, so I wasn't aware of this machine. I am so glad to see you are not only keeping one running, but connected to the Internet as well.
(???)
(???) .S., When I was still working in the Valley, they were raiding places like "Weird Stuff" for parts to put together some kind of Computer Museum (I think it was supposed to be at Moffett?). In any event, I heard that they have a place now, and are looking for people with functioning Micros. I don't have any details for them, (and I don't even know what part of the country you hail from), but because you have your machine on the internet (and they therefore can connect with it), you may want to look them up.
(???)
(???) PS,
(IMG) tell you where there IS definately a need for a Gopher Server of some sort, and thats for BeOS (the OS can be run on either a Mac or PC)
(GIF) opher://home.jumpjet.info/11\Treasure\BeOS_Pro_Edition_5
(???)
(???) -- On Sat, 8/9/08, Cameron Kaiser <spectre@floodgap.com> wrote:
(???) rom: Cameron Kaiser <spectre@floodgap.com>
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Item Type Suggestions
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) ate: Saturday, August 9, 2008, 8:59 PM
(???) Cameron,
(???) Since you have access to an Alpha Server, can you please test (and write a
(???) review for) the GSAPLHA Gopher Server?
(IMG) t's not an DEC Alpha server, it's an Alpha Micro server. This is a
(UUE) 8000-based quasi-mini architecture running AMOS. I'm not aware of a gopher
(???) lient for it, but incredibly it does have a web server. If you want to
(SND) ee what it does, I do have it connected to my firewall.
(IMG) could probably write a Gopher client in AlphaBASIC but I think that
(???) ould have an even smaller audience than one for the C64 :) Also, I don't
(???) hink I have TAME installed in the machine for the BASIC calls.
(???) -
(???) ----------------------------------- personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
(???) Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser@floodgap.com
(???) - Well done is better than well said. -- Benjamin Franklin -------------------
(???)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Sun Aug 10 15:26:52 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
(???) elivery-date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 15:26:52 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Sun, 10 Aug 2008 08:22:23 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from 63-245-179-205.kitusa.com ([63.245.179.205] helo=erwin.lan.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from katherina.lan.complete.org ([10.200.0.4])
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1])
(???) essage-ID: <489EEB89.1010607@complete.org>
(???) ate: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 08:22:17 -0500
(???) rom: John Goerzen <jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ser-Agent: Mozilla-Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (X11/20080509)
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) eferences: <872589.26513.qm@web35703.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <872589.26513.qm@web35703.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
(???) -Enigmail-Version: 0.95.0
(???) ontent-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sun, 10 Aug 2008 08:22:23 -0500
(???) -archive-position: 2375
(???) -ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: jgoerzen@complete.org
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sun, 10 Aug 2008 08:22:32 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Fate of the Protocol (was Re: Gopherness)
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 161
(???) umpJet Mailbox wrote:
(???) You mean like the "BROKEN" link to Project Gutenberg:
(???) gopher://gopher.quux.org/1/Archives/
(???)
(???) Or perhaps the empty link to Online Libraries:
(???) gopher://gopher.quux.org/1/Reference%09%09%2B
(???)
(???) Yes, that was a bit sarcastic, but seriously, maybe we should begin by just taking baby steps... such as keeping our own Servers up to date?
(???) gopher://gopher.quux.org/1/Archives/Mailing%20Lists/gopher
(???) gopher://hal3000.cx/1/Phlog%09%09%2B
(???)
(???) Or perhaps by helping fellow Gopher Wranglers in that effort by suggesting to them New Links, and reporting any Broken Links that appear on their Servers:
(???) gopher://home.jumpjet.info/1\Gopher_Jewels_2
(???)
(???) (Of course, you can't communicate with a Gopher Wrangler if they don't bother to put their contact information somewhere on the Server)!!!
(???) ou know, anonymous attacks on people is not constructive to the cause.
(IMG) am aware there are things that are outdated. I don't have time to
(DOC) evote to quux.org right now. Would you rather I take it down? I'm not
(GIF) oing to, just because one person has nothing better to do than complain.
(???) ou know, there is a right way and a wrong way to inspire people to work
(???) n things. There are people that have sent me requests to fix things on
(???) uux.org in the right way. Most often it comes in private, saying "hey,
t would be great if you fixed X."
(???) ou have not chosen the right way.
(???) our site's top-level selector is broken on UMN gopher client.
(???) Nothing available." is what comes back.
(IMG) suspect it has always been so.
(???) et your own house in order before throwing stones, shall we?
(IMG) also tire of your endless rants about contact info. Your own contact
nfo doesn't even state who you are.
(IMG) know you have made positive contributions to the community. But let's
(???) eep it that way, and not devolve into attacks, ok?
(IMG) t is not polite to troll in the first place, and it is even less so to
(DOC) o so anonymously.
(???) ou use a pseudonym here, which is fine. But you have extra
(???) esponsibility not to hide behind it.
(???) - John
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Sun Aug 10 15:27:09 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 15:27:09 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Sun, 10 Aug 2008 08:22:23 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from 63-245-179-205.kitusa.com ([63.245.179.205] helo=erwin.lan.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from katherina.lan.complete.org ([10.200.0.4])
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1])
(???) essage-ID: <489EEB89.1010607@complete.org>
(???) ate: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 08:22:17 -0500
(???) rom: John Goerzen <jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ser-Agent: Mozilla-Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (X11/20080509)
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) eferences: <872589.26513.qm@web35703.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <872589.26513.qm@web35703.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
(???) -Enigmail-Version: 0.95.0
(???) ontent-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sun, 10 Aug 2008 08:22:23 -0500
(???) -archive-position: 2375
(???) -ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: jgoerzen@complete.org
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sun, 10 Aug 2008 08:22:32 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Fate of the Protocol (was Re: Gopherness)
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 162
(???) umpJet Mailbox wrote:
(???) You mean like the "BROKEN" link to Project Gutenberg:
(???) gopher://gopher.quux.org/1/Archives/
(???)
(???) Or perhaps the empty link to Online Libraries:
(???) gopher://gopher.quux.org/1/Reference%09%09%2B
(???)
(???) Yes, that was a bit sarcastic, but seriously, maybe we should begin by just taking baby steps... such as keeping our own Servers up to date?
(???) gopher://gopher.quux.org/1/Archives/Mailing%20Lists/gopher
(???) gopher://hal3000.cx/1/Phlog%09%09%2B
(???)
(???) Or perhaps by helping fellow Gopher Wranglers in that effort by suggesting to them New Links, and reporting any Broken Links that appear on their Servers:
(???) gopher://home.jumpjet.info/1\Gopher_Jewels_2
(???)
(???) (Of course, you can't communicate with a Gopher Wrangler if they don't bother to put their contact information somewhere on the Server)!!!
(???) ou know, anonymous attacks on people is not constructive to the cause.
(IMG) am aware there are things that are outdated. I don't have time to
(DOC) evote to quux.org right now. Would you rather I take it down? I'm not
(GIF) oing to, just because one person has nothing better to do than complain.
(???) ou know, there is a right way and a wrong way to inspire people to work
(???) n things. There are people that have sent me requests to fix things on
(???) uux.org in the right way. Most often it comes in private, saying "hey,
t would be great if you fixed X."
(???) ou have not chosen the right way.
(???) our site's top-level selector is broken on UMN gopher client.
(???) Nothing available." is what comes back.
(IMG) suspect it has always been so.
(???) et your own house in order before throwing stones, shall we?
(IMG) also tire of your endless rants about contact info. Your own contact
nfo doesn't even state who you are.
(IMG) know you have made positive contributions to the community. But let's
(???) eep it that way, and not devolve into attacks, ok?
(IMG) t is not polite to troll in the first place, and it is even less so to
(DOC) o so anonymously.
(???) ou use a pseudonym here, which is fine. But you have extra
(???) esponsibility not to hide behind it.
(???) - John
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Sun Aug 10 15:28:05 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
(???) elivery-date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 15:28:05 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Sun, 10 Aug 2008 08:25:28 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from 63-245-179-205.kitusa.com ([63.245.179.205] helo=erwin.lan.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from katherina.lan.complete.org ([10.200.0.4])
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1])
(???) essage-ID: <489EEC42.5080708@complete.org>
(???) ate: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 08:25:22 -0500
(???) rom: John Goerzen <jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ser-Agent: Mozilla-Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (X11/20080509)
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) eferences: <800619.33390.qm@web35702.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <800619.33390.qm@web35702.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
(???) -Enigmail-Version: 0.95.0
(???) ontent-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sun, 10 Aug 2008 08:25:28 -0500
(???) -archive-position: 2376
(???) -ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: jgoerzen@complete.org
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sun, 10 Aug 2008 08:25:37 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Gopherness
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 163
(???) umpJet Mailbox wrote:
(???) How would we print a Gopher retreived text document on, for example,
(???) an older (or mini-mainframe) computer which only uses a Daisy Wheel
(???) Printer or Teletype Printer (which ONLY supports ASCII characters)?
(IMG) t can only be better than the current state of affairs, in which you
(???) ould still have 8-bit characters but would have no idea what character
(SND) et they are in!
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Sun Aug 10 15:28:15 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 15:28:15 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Sun, 10 Aug 2008 08:25:28 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from 63-245-179-205.kitusa.com ([63.245.179.205] helo=erwin.lan.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from katherina.lan.complete.org ([10.200.0.4])
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1])
(???) essage-ID: <489EEC42.5080708@complete.org>
(???) ate: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 08:25:22 -0500
(???) rom: John Goerzen <jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ser-Agent: Mozilla-Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (X11/20080509)
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) eferences: <800619.33390.qm@web35702.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <800619.33390.qm@web35702.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
(???) -Enigmail-Version: 0.95.0
(???) ontent-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sun, 10 Aug 2008 08:25:28 -0500
(???) -archive-position: 2376
(???) -ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: jgoerzen@complete.org
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sun, 10 Aug 2008 08:25:37 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Gopherness
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 164
(???) umpJet Mailbox wrote:
(???) How would we print a Gopher retreived text document on, for example,
(???) an older (or mini-mainframe) computer which only uses a Daisy Wheel
(???) Printer or Teletype Printer (which ONLY supports ASCII characters)?
(IMG) t can only be better than the current state of affairs, in which you
(???) ould still have 8-bit characters but would have no idea what character
(SND) et they are in!
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Sun Aug 10 17:16:40 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,DKIM_SIGNED,SPF_HELO_PASS,
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
(???) elivery-date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 17:16:40 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Sun, 10 Aug 2008 10:12:16 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from web35701.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([66.163.179.155])
(???) eceived: (qmail 87946 invoked by uid 60001); 10 Aug 2008 15:12:06 -0000
(???) omainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
(???) s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
(???) h=Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Message-ID;
(???) b=GaKEkRgboPj5R2K5Ib2aUd+x2FVpPpDj91S18QeqOyWhOQdENU9EWX417M69gzfmuMueulqe/pGT+At8v0pfQDzEarfReYy9FltjPCaNnTRIST3iQLmGuMr0IeCFp2bVy0CtwuYYgsePpOki4zD5PfPfD9OKdjMnCYt5PAmamKg=;
(???) eceived: from [209.216.94.5] by web35701.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 10 Aug 2008 08:12:06 PDT
(???) -Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.218
(???) ate: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 08:12:06 -0700 (PDT)
(???) rom: JumpJet Mailbox <jumpjetinfo@yahoo.com>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(???) ontent-type: text/plain
(???) essage-ID: <181711.87596.qm@web35701.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sun, 10 Aug 2008 10:12:16 -0500
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
(???) -archive-position: 2377
(???) -ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: jumpjetinfo@yahoo.com
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sun, 10 Aug 2008 10:12:27 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Fate of the Protocol (was Re: Gopherness)
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 165
(???) ot a direct attack on just your server (I just grabbed some random examples), but ALL Gopher Servers INTENDED FOR PUBLIC ACCESS that have bad links (including mine). Bad links (and corrupted software for downloading) do NOTHING good for the public community, and only serve to turn the public away (think: "under construction" on the WWW). If you don't have time to keep thinks up to date (and many Gopher Wranglers do not), then put a bold notice on the Server stating that this is a PRIVATE Server, or that the Server is NOT being maintained and may contain bad information.
(???)
(IMG) f indeed my site does not work with a commonly used Client, why the heck didn't you (or any one else in the community using this Client for that matter) inform me earlier? I do however appreciate you finally telling me about the Server being "Broken", and so I will take it off-line imediately, pending repairs. Thank you [and I mean this sincerely and truly]. Without some kind of matrix showing what Clients can or cannot do, reports like this are the only way we have of knowing what our Servers are doing (inadvertantly or otherwise).
(???)
(???) .S., with JumpJet off-line, many resourses will be unavailable (such as Gopher Jewels and Begin Here). As I do not know how long it will take to resolve the UNM Client problem, I will try to farm out these resources to other Gopher Servers which may be willing to continue making them available to the Public in the interrum. Sorry to all for the inconvenience.
(???)
(???) -- On Sun, 8/10/08, John Goerzen <jgoerzen@complete.org> wrote:
(???) rom: John Goerzen <jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Fate of the Protocol (was Re: Gopherness)
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) ate: Sunday, August 10, 2008, 9:22 AM
(???) umpJet Mailbox wrote:
(???) You mean like the "BROKEN" link to Project Gutenberg:
(???) gopher://gopher.quux.org/1/Archives/
(???)
(???) Or perhaps the empty link to Online Libraries:
(???) gopher://gopher.quux.org/1/Reference%09%09%2B
(???)
(???) Yes, that was a bit sarcastic, but seriously, maybe we should begin by
(???) ust taking baby steps... such as keeping our own Servers up to date?
(???) gopher://gopher.quux.org/1/Archives/Mailing%20Lists/gopher
(???) gopher://hal3000.cx/1/Phlog%09%09%2B
(???)
(???) Or perhaps by helping fellow Gopher Wranglers in that effort by suggesting
(???) o them New Links, and reporting any Broken Links that appear on their Servers:
(???) gopher://home.jumpjet.info/1\Gopher_Jewels_2
(???)
(???) (Of course, you can't communicate with a Gopher Wrangler if they
(DOC) on't bother to put their contact information somewhere on the Server)!!!
(???) ou know, anonymous attacks on people is not constructive to the cause.
(IMG) am aware there are things that are outdated. I don't have time to
(DOC) evote to quux.org right now. Would you rather I take it down? I'm not
(GIF) oing to, just because one person has nothing better to do than complain.
(???) ou know, there is a right way and a wrong way to inspire people to work
(???) n things. There are people that have sent me requests to fix things on
(???) uux.org in the right way. Most often it comes in private, saying "hey,
t would be great if you fixed X."
(???) ou have not chosen the right way.
(???) our site's top-level selector is broken on UMN gopher client.
(???) Nothing available." is what comes back.
(IMG) suspect it has always been so.
(???) et your own house in order before throwing stones, shall we?
(IMG) also tire of your endless rants about contact info. Your own contact
nfo doesn't even state who you are.
(IMG) know you have made positive contributions to the community. But let's
(???) eep it that way, and not devolve into attacks, ok?
(IMG) t is not polite to troll in the first place, and it is even less so to
(DOC) o so anonymously.
(???) ou use a pseudonym here, which is fine. But you have extra
(???) esponsibility not to hide behind it.
(???) - John
(???)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Sun Aug 10 17:16:54 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,DKIM_SIGNED,SPF_HELO_PASS,
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 17:16:54 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Sun, 10 Aug 2008 10:12:16 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from web35701.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([66.163.179.155])
(???) eceived: (qmail 87946 invoked by uid 60001); 10 Aug 2008 15:12:06 -0000
(???) omainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
(???) s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
(???) h=Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Message-ID;
(???) b=GaKEkRgboPj5R2K5Ib2aUd+x2FVpPpDj91S18QeqOyWhOQdENU9EWX417M69gzfmuMueulqe/pGT+At8v0pfQDzEarfReYy9FltjPCaNnTRIST3iQLmGuMr0IeCFp2bVy0CtwuYYgsePpOki4zD5PfPfD9OKdjMnCYt5PAmamKg=;
(???) eceived: from [209.216.94.5] by web35701.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 10 Aug 2008 08:12:06 PDT
(???) -Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.218
(???) ate: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 08:12:06 -0700 (PDT)
(???) rom: JumpJet Mailbox <jumpjetinfo@yahoo.com>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(???) ontent-type: text/plain
(???) essage-ID: <181711.87596.qm@web35701.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sun, 10 Aug 2008 10:12:16 -0500
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
(???) -archive-position: 2377
(???) -ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: jumpjetinfo@yahoo.com
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sun, 10 Aug 2008 10:12:27 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Fate of the Protocol (was Re: Gopherness)
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 166
(???) ot a direct attack on just your server (I just grabbed some random examples), but ALL Gopher Servers INTENDED FOR PUBLIC ACCESS that have bad links (including mine). Bad links (and corrupted software for downloading) do NOTHING good for the public community, and only serve to turn the public away (think: "under construction" on the WWW). If you don't have time to keep thinks up to date (and many Gopher Wranglers do not), then put a bold notice on the Server stating that this is a PRIVATE Server, or that the Server is NOT being maintained and may contain bad information.
(???)
(IMG) f indeed my site does not work with a commonly used Client, why the heck didn't you (or any one else in the community using this Client for that matter) inform me earlier? I do however appreciate you finally telling me about the Server being "Broken", and so I will take it off-line imediately, pending repairs. Thank you [and I mean this sincerely and truly]. Without some kind of matrix showing what Clients can or cannot do, reports like this are the only way we have of knowing what our Servers are doing (inadvertantly or otherwise).
(???)
(???) .S., with JumpJet off-line, many resourses will be unavailable (such as Gopher Jewels and Begin Here). As I do not know how long it will take to resolve the UNM Client problem, I will try to farm out these resources to other Gopher Servers which may be willing to continue making them available to the Public in the interrum. Sorry to all for the inconvenience.
(???)
(???) -- On Sun, 8/10/08, John Goerzen <jgoerzen@complete.org> wrote:
(???) rom: John Goerzen <jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Fate of the Protocol (was Re: Gopherness)
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) ate: Sunday, August 10, 2008, 9:22 AM
(???) umpJet Mailbox wrote:
(???) You mean like the "BROKEN" link to Project Gutenberg:
(???) gopher://gopher.quux.org/1/Archives/
(???)
(???) Or perhaps the empty link to Online Libraries:
(???) gopher://gopher.quux.org/1/Reference%09%09%2B
(???)
(???) Yes, that was a bit sarcastic, but seriously, maybe we should begin by
(???) ust taking baby steps... such as keeping our own Servers up to date?
(???) gopher://gopher.quux.org/1/Archives/Mailing%20Lists/gopher
(???) gopher://hal3000.cx/1/Phlog%09%09%2B
(???)
(???) Or perhaps by helping fellow Gopher Wranglers in that effort by suggesting
(???) o them New Links, and reporting any Broken Links that appear on their Servers:
(???) gopher://home.jumpjet.info/1\Gopher_Jewels_2
(???)
(???) (Of course, you can't communicate with a Gopher Wrangler if they
(DOC) on't bother to put their contact information somewhere on the Server)!!!
(???) ou know, anonymous attacks on people is not constructive to the cause.
(IMG) am aware there are things that are outdated. I don't have time to
(DOC) evote to quux.org right now. Would you rather I take it down? I'm not
(GIF) oing to, just because one person has nothing better to do than complain.
(???) ou know, there is a right way and a wrong way to inspire people to work
(???) n things. There are people that have sent me requests to fix things on
(???) uux.org in the right way. Most often it comes in private, saying "hey,
t would be great if you fixed X."
(???) ou have not chosen the right way.
(???) our site's top-level selector is broken on UMN gopher client.
(???) Nothing available." is what comes back.
(IMG) suspect it has always been so.
(???) et your own house in order before throwing stones, shall we?
(IMG) also tire of your endless rants about contact info. Your own contact
nfo doesn't even state who you are.
(IMG) know you have made positive contributions to the community. But let's
(???) eep it that way, and not devolve into attacks, ok?
(IMG) t is not polite to troll in the first place, and it is even less so to
(DOC) o so anonymously.
(???) ou use a pseudonym here, which is fine. But you have extra
(???) esponsibility not to hide behind it.
(???) - John
(???)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Sun Aug 10 17:41:56 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
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(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,DKIM_SIGNED,SPF_HELO_PASS,
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
(???) elivery-date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 17:41:56 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Sun, 10 Aug 2008 10:38:32 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from web35703.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([66.163.179.157])
(???) eceived: (qmail 4858 invoked by uid 60001); 10 Aug 2008 15:38:20 -0000
(???) omainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
(???) s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
(???) h=Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Message-ID;
(???) b=AUWF3uwQjJ2CmO0AlWmLWcrecrOeleiAEu8xQQ8NCPIufzqticFLGWLaxtlLIcB/rrUC/xWN4a2vDrhCR//Ad4RyJ22672fTi4QIblEHRfBPSGi45mC53hrPDEsCOoVfRPnV5M3sANBe6FMTupfPZLHbGRAkEj0EJGOnbFPVAyI=;
(???) eceived: from [209.216.94.5] by web35703.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 10 Aug 2008 08:38:20 PDT
(???) -Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.218
(???) ate: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 08:38:20 -0700 (PDT)
(???) rom: JumpJet Mailbox <jumpjetinfo@yahoo.com>
(TN3) o: Gopher Mailinglist <gopher@complete.org>
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(???) ontent-type: text/plain
(???) essage-ID: <701509.4110.qm@web35703.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sun, 10 Aug 2008 10:38:32 -0500
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
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(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: jumpjetinfo@yahoo.com
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sun, 10 Aug 2008 10:38:42 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Gopher Jewels 2
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 167
(???) ood news. Floodgap has stated a willingness to permanently take over Gopher Jewels. This is a perfect marriage, as Floodgap is both constantly monitoring the status of the worlds Gopher Servers, and the data comming back from Veronica 2 searches. The fact that Floodgap is also the first Server seen when entering through the Public Gopher Proxy also makes having Gopher Jewels hosted on Floodgap desirable. Thank you Cameron.
(???)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Sun Aug 10 17:42:07 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
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(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,DKIM_SIGNED,SPF_HELO_PASS,
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 17:42:07 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Sun, 10 Aug 2008 10:38:32 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from web35703.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([66.163.179.157])
(???) eceived: (qmail 4858 invoked by uid 60001); 10 Aug 2008 15:38:20 -0000
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(???) h=Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Message-ID;
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(???) ate: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 08:38:20 -0700 (PDT)
(???) rom: JumpJet Mailbox <jumpjetinfo@yahoo.com>
(TN3) o: Gopher Mailinglist <gopher@complete.org>
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(???) ontent-type: text/plain
(???) essage-ID: <701509.4110.qm@web35703.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sun, 10 Aug 2008 10:38:32 -0500
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
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(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: jumpjetinfo@yahoo.com
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sun, 10 Aug 2008 10:38:42 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Gopher Jewels 2
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 168
(???) ood news. Floodgap has stated a willingness to permanently take over Gopher Jewels. This is a perfect marriage, as Floodgap is both constantly monitoring the status of the worlds Gopher Servers, and the data comming back from Veronica 2 searches. The fact that Floodgap is also the first Server seen when entering through the Public Gopher Proxy also makes having Gopher Jewels hosted on Floodgap desirable. Thank you Cameron.
(???)
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Sun Aug 10 18:09:51 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
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(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=1.4 required=5.0 tests=AWL,DKIM_SIGNED,SPF_HELO_PASS,
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
(???) elivery-date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 18:09:51 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Sun, 10 Aug 2008 11:03:20 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from fk-out-0910.google.com ([209.85.128.186])
(???) eceived: by fk-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id 18so1442420fks.2
(???) for <gopher@complete.org>; Sun, 10 Aug 2008 09:03:13 -0700 (PDT)
(???) KIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
(???) d=gmail.com; s=gamma;
(???) h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to
(???) :subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding
(???) :content-disposition;
(???) bh=MW3RbvznEEph8NHsiUJsTaRGE/QOYFOfrY/sTGmJYqo=;
(???) b=IAdkD453ZHz1pKhO9KALubEEqSgRhKOt5mXkfXDIj901bNs+b/x+M0EPJ33EMaXd4f
(???) qNa5ld0fdgkJvo2My2j4aNwlT/CRjA9xnNveNi6LY76w6OibKBujMBL9+ORH+jP0607V
(???) U5MNTpsMkWBA5y/g4pfEST8gBpJJ2KXQNGtFU=
(???) omainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws;
(???) d=gmail.com; s=gamma;
(???) h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type
(???) :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition;
(???) b=hHeFdYkx9hjQ/JnegaVix10xQl3PIdDdXcwKBQcUqid8A77FnbkCs1H0Ihr0XMclXK
(???) GlR9PC0RVDob3RaDnTSOltjfzR1EWelud3kOlfC22TTDmcv8PLqIi5VLMmPSOHHqtN3p
(???) OsPD5c8V2PvzhWk8J2GqCVdiCbUPRPLp+IxDw=
(???) eceived: by 10.181.2.2 with SMTP id e2mr3249065bki.49.1218384192607;
(???) Sun, 10 Aug 2008 09:03:12 -0700 (PDT)
(???) eceived: by 10.125.145.3 with HTTP; Sun, 10 Aug 2008 09:03:12 -0700 (PDT)
(???) essage-ID: <d8613add0808100903i6dffb821u7cafedbcd0bb46d4@mail.gmail.com>
(???) ate: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 09:03:12 -0700
(???) rom: "Beren Sanders" <beren.sanders@gmail.com>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(???) ontent-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
(???) ontent-Disposition: inline
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sun, 10 Aug 2008 11:03:20 -0500
(???) -archive-position: 2379
(???) -ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: beren.sanders@gmail.com
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sun, 10 Aug 2008 11:03:30 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] well-written document
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 169
(IMG) thought this was well-written:
(GIF) opher://gopher.floodgap.com/0/gopher/relevance.txt
(???) ood job.
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Sun Aug 10 18:10:03 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
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(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=1.9 required=5.0 tests=AWL,DKIM_SIGNED,SPF_HELO_PASS,
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 18:10:03 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Sun, 10 Aug 2008 11:03:20 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from fk-out-0910.google.com ([209.85.128.186])
(???) eceived: by fk-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id 18so1442420fks.2
(???) for <gopher@complete.org>; Sun, 10 Aug 2008 09:03:13 -0700 (PDT)
(???) KIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
(???) d=gmail.com; s=gamma;
(???) h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to
(???) :subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding
(???) :content-disposition;
(???) bh=MW3RbvznEEph8NHsiUJsTaRGE/QOYFOfrY/sTGmJYqo=;
(???) b=IAdkD453ZHz1pKhO9KALubEEqSgRhKOt5mXkfXDIj901bNs+b/x+M0EPJ33EMaXd4f
(???) qNa5ld0fdgkJvo2My2j4aNwlT/CRjA9xnNveNi6LY76w6OibKBujMBL9+ORH+jP0607V
(???) U5MNTpsMkWBA5y/g4pfEST8gBpJJ2KXQNGtFU=
(???) omainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws;
(???) d=gmail.com; s=gamma;
(???) h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type
(???) :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition;
(???) b=hHeFdYkx9hjQ/JnegaVix10xQl3PIdDdXcwKBQcUqid8A77FnbkCs1H0Ihr0XMclXK
(???) GlR9PC0RVDob3RaDnTSOltjfzR1EWelud3kOlfC22TTDmcv8PLqIi5VLMmPSOHHqtN3p
(???) OsPD5c8V2PvzhWk8J2GqCVdiCbUPRPLp+IxDw=
(???) eceived: by 10.181.2.2 with SMTP id e2mr3249065bki.49.1218384192607;
(???) Sun, 10 Aug 2008 09:03:12 -0700 (PDT)
(???) eceived: by 10.125.145.3 with HTTP; Sun, 10 Aug 2008 09:03:12 -0700 (PDT)
(???) essage-ID: <d8613add0808100903i6dffb821u7cafedbcd0bb46d4@mail.gmail.com>
(???) ate: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 09:03:12 -0700
(???) rom: "Beren Sanders" <beren.sanders@gmail.com>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(???) ontent-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
(???) ontent-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
(???) ontent-Disposition: inline
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sun, 10 Aug 2008 11:03:20 -0500
(???) -archive-position: 2379
(???) -ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: beren.sanders@gmail.com
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sun, 10 Aug 2008 11:03:30 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] well-written document
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 170
(IMG) thought this was well-written:
(GIF) opher://gopher.floodgap.com/0/gopher/relevance.txt
(???) ood job.
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Sun Aug 10 18:36:54 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
(???) -Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on mini.home
(???) -Spam-Level:
(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
(???) elivery-date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 18:36:54 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Sun, 10 Aug 2008 11:34:35 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from morecp.net
(???) eceived: by port70.net (Postfix, from userid 1000)
(???) ate: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 18:34:27 +0200
(???) rom: Mate Nagy <k-zed@hactar.net>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) essage-ID: <20080810163427.GA7237@port70.net>
(???) eferences: <872589.26513.qm@web35703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <489EEB89.1010607@complete.org>
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
(???) ontent-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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(IMG) n-Reply-To: <489EEB89.1010607@complete.org>
(???) ser-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17)
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(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) -original-sender: k-zed@hactar.net
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
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(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sun, 10 Aug 2008 11:34:44 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Fate of the Protocol (was Re: Gopherness)
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
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(???) -UID: 171
(???) Your site's top-level selector is broken on UMN gopher client.
(???)
(???) "Nothing available." is what comes back.
(???) Regardless of other issues, that's the UMN gopher client being broken,
(???) ot the server :) (retrieving the root menu by
(???) $ gopher -p "" server.tld
(SND) hould work). Again, I feel we should stop accomodating such plainly
(???) rong behavior, even from a historic client.
(???) egards,
(???) Mate
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Sun Aug 10 18:37:07 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
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(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 18:37:07 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Sun, 10 Aug 2008 11:34:35 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from morecp.net
(???) eceived: by port70.net (Postfix, from userid 1000)
(???) ate: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 18:34:27 +0200
(???) rom: Mate Nagy <k-zed@hactar.net>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) essage-ID: <20080810163427.GA7237@port70.net>
(???) eferences: <872589.26513.qm@web35703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <489EEB89.1010607@complete.org>
(???) IME-Version: 1.0
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(IMG) n-Reply-To: <489EEB89.1010607@complete.org>
(???) ser-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17)
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sun, 10 Aug 2008 11:34:35 -0500
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(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
(???) ist-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help>
(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sun, 10 Aug 2008 11:34:44 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Fate of the Protocol (was Re: Gopherness)
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 172
(???) Your site's top-level selector is broken on UMN gopher client.
(???)
(???) "Nothing available." is what comes back.
(???) Regardless of other issues, that's the UMN gopher client being broken,
(???) ot the server :) (retrieving the root menu by
(???) $ gopher -p "" server.tld
(SND) hould work). Again, I feel we should stop accomodating such plainly
(???) rong behavior, even from a historic client.
(???) egards,
(???) Mate
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Sun Aug 10 19:03:24 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
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(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
(???) elivery-date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 19:03:24 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Sun, 10 Aug 2008 12:01:28 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from static-71-170-11-156.dllstx.dsl-w.verizon.net ([71.170.11.156] helo=turquoise.pongonova.net)
(???) eceived: by turquoise.pongonova.net (Postfix, from userid 1000)
(???) ate: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 11:03:09 -0500
(???) rom: brian@pongonova.net
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) essage-ID: <20080810160308.GA8212@pongonova.net>
(???) eferences: <d8613add0808100903i6dffb821u7cafedbcd0bb46d4@mail.gmail.com>
(???) ime-Version: 1.0
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(???) ser-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1i
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sun, 10 Aug 2008 12:01:28 -0500
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(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
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(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
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(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sun, 10 Aug 2008 12:01:38 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: well-written document
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 173
(???) n Sun, Aug 10, 2008 at 09:03:12AM -0700, Beren Sanders wrote:
(???) I thought this was well-written:
(???) gopher://gopher.floodgap.com/0/gopher/relevance.txt
(???) Good job.
(???) ameron, my rework of the gopher manifesto, while slow, is still
(???) ngoing :) Mind if I use excerpts from your article?
(???) --Brian
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Sun Aug 10 19:03:34 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
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(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 19:03:34 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Sun, 10 Aug 2008 12:01:28 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from static-71-170-11-156.dllstx.dsl-w.verizon.net ([71.170.11.156] helo=turquoise.pongonova.net)
(???) eceived: by turquoise.pongonova.net (Postfix, from userid 1000)
(???) ate: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 11:03:09 -0500
(???) rom: brian@pongonova.net
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) essage-ID: <20080810160308.GA8212@pongonova.net>
(???) eferences: <d8613add0808100903i6dffb821u7cafedbcd0bb46d4@mail.gmail.com>
(???) ime-Version: 1.0
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(???) ser-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1i
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sun, 10 Aug 2008 12:01:28 -0500
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(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
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(???) -original-sender: brian@pongonova.net
(???) recedence: bulk
(???) eply-to: gopher@complete.org
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(???) ist-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe>
(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sun, 10 Aug 2008 12:01:38 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: well-written document
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 174
(???) n Sun, Aug 10, 2008 at 09:03:12AM -0700, Beren Sanders wrote:
(???) I thought this was well-written:
(???) gopher://gopher.floodgap.com/0/gopher/relevance.txt
(???) Good job.
(???) ameron, my rework of the gopher manifesto, while slow, is still
(???) ngoing :) Mind if I use excerpts from your article?
(???) --Brian
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Sun Aug 10 22:39:14 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
(???) -Spam-ASN: AS30517 64.85.160.0/20
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(???) -Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS
(???) nvelope-to: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org
(???) elivery-date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 22:39:14 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Sun, 10 Aug 2008 15:35:23 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from main.gmane.org ([80.91.229.2] helo=ciao.gmane.org)
(???) eceived: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43)
(???) eceived: from bl9-226-81.dsl.telepac.pt ([85.242.226.81])
(???) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian))
(???) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00
(???) for <gopher@complete.org>; Sun, 10 Aug 2008 20:35:08 +0000
(???) eceived: from nunojsilva by bl9-226-81.dsl.telepac.pt with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian))
(???) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00
(???) for <gopher@complete.org>; Sun, 10 Aug 2008 20:35:08 +0000
(???) -Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) rom: nunojsilva@ist.utl.pt (Nuno J. Silva)
(???) ate: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 21:34:57 +0100
(???) ines: 65
(???) essage-ID: <87hc9sd2xa.fsf@deschutes.local.lan>
(???) eferences: <87d4koodpq.fsf@deschutes.local.lan> <800619.33390.qm@web35702.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
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(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sun, 10 Aug 2008 15:35:23 -0500
(???) -archive-position: 2382
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(???) ender: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) rrors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org
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(???) recedence: bulk
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(???) ist-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
(???) ist-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) -List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org>
(???) ist-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe>
(???) ist-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>
(???) ist-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org>
(???) ist-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/>
(???) -list: gopher
(???) -Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Sun, 10 Aug 2008 15:35:33 -0500
(???) -SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.85.160.192
(???) -SA-Exim-Mail-From: gopher-bounce@complete.org
(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Gopherness
(???) -SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1
(???) -SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on telefisk.org)
(???) tatus: O
(???) -Status:
(???) -Keywords:
(???) -UID: 175
(???) umpJet Mailbox <jumpjetinfo@yahoo.com>
(???) rites:
(???) --- On Mon, 8/4/08, Nuno J. Silva
(???) <nunojsilva@ist.utl.pt> wrote:
(???) >
(???) > "Jay Nemrow" <jnemrow@quix.us> writes:
(???) >
(???) >> On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 10:19 AM, Kyevan
(???) >> <kyevan@sinedev.org> wrote:
(???) >>
(???) >>> What about older clients, though? Modern clients will probably
(???) >>> handle UTF-8 at least well enough to not explode, but older clients
(???) >>> might not. Generally, it seems safest to stick to the subset that
(???) >>> is ASCII when reasonable, only using UTF-8 or such when it's
(???) >>> actually needed. ... is a perfectly readable replacement for
(???) >>> U+2026, even if it's not "typographically correct." On the other
(???) >>> hand, if you're trying to post a text in, say, a mix of Arabic, and
(???) >>> Klingon, go right ahead and use UTF-8.
(???) >
(???) > There are also these iso* charsets which just use 8 bit to encode the
(???) > text, not allowing a greater collection of characters, and using
(???) > those you wouldn't be able to mix charsets.
(???) snip/>
(???) > On the other hand, even if the choice was utf8 (so the documents would
(???) > be ASCII or utf8), I'd keep iso* support, just in case (therefore my
(???) > question is 'should we use the same sort of character encoding when
(???) > publishing non-english documents? if yes, which one?' and not 'what
(???) > should a client support?').
(???) >
(???) > What's the actual scenario? Is there any client which crashes due to
(???) > utf8? Which clients are not able to render it correctly? And what
(???) > about iso* charsets support?
(???)
(???) How would we print a Gopher retreived text document on, for example,
(???) an older (or mini-mainframe) computer which only uses a Daisy Wheel
(???) Printer or Teletype Printer (which ONLY supports ASCII characters)?
(IMG) f the documents (in any of the mentioned encodings) have non-ASCII
(???) haracters, the behaviour is undefined (e.g., if the machine ignores the
(TEL) th bit, another characters will be rendered instead of the desired ones).
(???) ut there's nothing we can do about that, except writing some script to
(???) eplace the existing non-ASCII characters with some ASCII description.
(???) voiding the use of non-ASCII characters is, of course, a good
dea. But, if there's some document in a non-western language, or a
(???) anguage which requires another alphabet, it's impossible to use ASCII
n that situation.
(???) snip/>
(???) -
(???) uno J. Silva (aka njsg)
(???) EIC student at Instituto Superior Técnico
(???) isbon, Portugal
(???) omepage: http://njsg.no.sapo.pt/
(???) opherspace: gopher://sdf-eu.org/11/users/njsg
(???) egistered Linux User #402207 - http://counter.li.org
(???) =-=-
(???) oh, mommy, mommy, what I have now doesn't work in this extremely
(???) nlikely circumstance, so I'll just throw it away and write something
(???) ompletely new.
(???) -- Linus Torvalds
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Sun Aug 10 22:39:32 2008
(???) eturn-path: <gopher-bounce@complete.org>
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(???) nvelope-to: rachael@telefisk.org
(???) elivery-date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 22:39:32 +0200
(???) eceived: from b01s02mr.corenetworks.net ([64.85.160.192] helo=glockenspiel.complete.org)
(???) eceived: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=glockenspiel)
(???) eceived: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Sun, 10 Aug 2008 15:35:23 -0500 (CDT)
(???) eceived: from main.gmane.org ([80.91.229.2] helo=ciao.gmane.org)
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(???) -Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(???) rom: nunojsilva@ist.utl.pt (Nuno J. Silva)
(???) ate: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 21:34:57 +0100
(???) ines: 65
(???) essage-ID: <87hc9sd2xa.fsf@deschutes.local.lan>
(???) eferences: <87d4koodpq.fsf@deschutes.local.lan> <800619.33390.qm@web35702.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
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(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Gopherness
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(???) umpJet Mailbox <jumpjetinfo@yahoo.com>
(???) rites:
(???) --- On Mon, 8/4/08, Nuno J. Silva
(???) <nunojsilva@ist.utl.pt> wrote:
(???) >
(???) > "Jay Nemrow" <jnemrow@quix.us> writes:
(???) >
(???) >> On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 10:19 AM, Kyevan
(???) >> <kyevan@sinedev.org> wrote:
(???) >>
(???) >>> What about older clients, though? Modern clients will probably
(???) >>> handle UTF-8 at least well enough to not explode, but older clients
(???) >>> might not. Generally, it seems safest to stick to the subset that
(???) >>> is ASCII when reasonable, only using UTF-8 or such when it's
(???) >>> actually needed. ... is a perfectly readable replacement for
(???) >>> U+2026, even if it's not "typographically correct." On the other
(???) >>> hand, if you're trying to post a text in, say, a mix of Arabic, and
(???) >>> Klingon, go right ahead and use UTF-8.
(???) >
(???) > There are also these iso* charsets which just use 8 bit to encode the
(???) > text, not allowing a greater collection of characters, and using
(???) > those you wouldn't be able to mix charsets.
(???) snip/>
(???) > On the other hand, even if the choice was utf8 (so the documents would
(???) > be ASCII or utf8), I'd keep iso* support, just in case (therefore my
(???) > question is 'should we use the same sort of character encoding when
(???) > publishing non-english documents? if yes, which one?' and not 'what
(???) > should a client support?').
(???) >
(???) > What's the actual scenario? Is there any client which crashes due to
(???) > utf8? Which clients are not able to render it correctly? And what
(???) > about iso* charsets support?
(???)
(???) How would we print a Gopher retreived text document on, for example,
(???) an older (or mini-mainframe) computer which only uses a Daisy Wheel
(???) Printer or Teletype Printer (which ONLY supports ASCII characters)?
(IMG) f the documents (in any of the mentioned encodings) have non-ASCII
(???) haracters, the behaviour is undefined (e.g., if the machine ignores the
(TEL) th bit, another characters will be rendered instead of the desired ones).
(???) ut there's nothing we can do about that, except writing some script to
(???) eplace the existing non-ASCII characters with some ASCII description.
(???) voiding the use of non-ASCII characters is, of course, a good
dea. But, if there's some document in a non-western language, or a
(???) anguage which requires another alphabet, it's impossible to use ASCII
n that situation.
(???) snip/>
(???) -
(???) uno J. Silva (aka njsg)
(???) EIC student at Instituto Superior Técnico
(???) isbon, Portugal
(???) omepage: http://njsg.no.sapo.pt/
(???) opherspace: gopher://sdf-eu.org/11/users/njsg
(???) egistered Linux User #402207 - http://counter.li.org
(???) =-=-
(???) oh, mommy, mommy, what I have now doesn't work in this extremely
(???) nlikely circumstance, so I'll just throw it away and write something
(???) ompletely new.
(???) -- Linus Torvalds
(???) rom gopher-bounce@complete.org Sun Aug 10 23:06:55 2008
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(???) ate: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 16:04:46 -0500
(???) rom: "Matthew Holevinski" <eylusion@gmail.com>
(TN3) o: gopher@complete.org
(IMG) n-Reply-To: <87hc9sd2xa.fsf@deschutes.local.lan>
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(???) ubject: [gopher] Re: Gopherness
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(???) o gopher as it stands needs internationalization?
(IMG) 'm having trouble following a lot of these emails
(???) ut i'm trying =3D-)
(???) att
(???) n Sun, Aug 10, 2008 at 3:34 PM, Nuno J. Silva <nunojsilva@ist.utl.pt> wrot=
(???) :
(???) JumpJet Mailbox <jumpjetinfo@yahoo.com>
(???) writes:
(???)
(???) > --- On Mon, 8/4/08, Nuno J. Silva
(???) > <nunojsilva@ist.utl.pt> wrote:
(???) >>
(???) >> "Jay Nemrow" <jnemrow@quix.us> writes:
(???) >>
(???) >>> On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 10:19 AM, Kyevan
(???) >>> <kyevan@sinedev.org> wrote:
(???) >>>
(???) >>>> What about older clients, though? Modern clients will probably
(???) >>>> handle UTF-8 at least well enough to not explode, but older clients
(???) >>>> might not. Generally, it seems safest to stick to the subset that
(???) >>>> is ASCII when reasonable, only using UTF-8 or such when it's
(???) >>>> actually needed. ... is a perfectly readable replacement for
(???) >>>> U+2026, even if it's not "typographically correct." On the other
(???) >>>> hand, if you're trying to post a text in, say, a mix of Arabic, and
(???) >>>> Klingon, go right ahead and use UTF-8.
(???) >>
(???) >> There are also these iso* charsets which just use 8 bit to encode the
(???) >> text, not allowing a greater collection of characters, and using
(???) >> those you wouldn't be able to mix charsets.
(???) <snip/>
(???) >> On the other hand, even if the choice was utf8 (so the documents would
(???) >> be ASCII or utf8), I'd keep iso* support, just in case (therefore my
(???) >> question is 'should we use the same sort of character encoding when
(???) >> publishing non-english documents? if yes, which one?' and not 'what
(???) >> should a client support?').
(???) >>
(???) >> What's the actual scenario? Is there any client which crashes due to
(???) >> utf8? Which clients are not able to render it correctly? And what
(???) >> about iso* charsets support?
(???) >
(???) > How would we print a Gopher retreived text document on, for example,
(???) > an older (or mini-mainframe) computer which only uses a Daisy Wheel
(???) > Printer or Teletype Printer (which ONLY supports ASCII characters)?
(???)
(???) If the documents (in any of the mentioned encodings) have non-ASCII
(???) characters, the behaviour is undefined (e.g., if the machine ignores the
(???) 8th bit, another characters will be rendered instead of the desired ones)=