Ilse, Perhaps not Clos Du Bois Pinot Noir Sonoma County 1995, or en your Vino Tinto, but may be swillable -- or usable for cooking. *smile*. This is mostly about navigation & scalability and meta-text. And ergonomics for maximal ease of use by all: 0. faster, ergonomically easier long list pages: -- #top and #bottom anchors and frequent referencing to them from under the sections of long, sectioned list pages helps. --> The redone ASGP Page of Links. -- going with the flow in link layout: Visualize someone arriving on Lyrics Are Poetry for the first time, from "Babooshka", under Kate Bush, after going to Kate Bush from Music, without yet visiting subcategories of Literature. Never mind the alarming plethora of specialized Back links in their face, first thing on the page. No, think of all of the links, just sitting there, the gestalt of it all: It's hard to apprehend the clutter of choices of outgoing links, most never visited, some implying returns to visits, intermixed with places one has seen (say, Poem of the Week). It would be less scary on arrival to see at the top of the page only interior links, if any, seeing them as a menu for the immediate meal ahead. Here's the archetype: #top -internal navigation if any - | flow of the reading (including ->top ->bottom if needed) | v #bottom -links to outside- This link placement flow follows the very scroll flow of the browser, and the reading motion of the eye and of the mouse/space bar hand or whatever pointer. It's no accident LeeAnn/I adopted it on the ASGP site and stuck to it. It's reader-friendly, fast. And thus Lynx friendly, and thus custom-modality of reading friendly, as discussed before. Lynx does hurdles over the links up top before it gets to the content. It might as well only hurdle over what pertains to the page. On-demand hurdling. Less is more. :) 1. various.htm lost in the clutter Looks good, validates, keeps the ul/li semantics, all cool. Would benefit from a cleaner, consistent navigation scheme, as in (0). But, as is, your home page's growth and its many-to-one mappings, the various.htm page is nearly -hard- to get to, or even notice, once one goes off elsewhere. Is that good? 2. rethinking Further: the Literature siblings -- you might wish to demote Lyrics Are Poetry to being a part of the Music page, and leave Music as the sole musical sibling under Literature. See (4) why. Logical links same as now: Fiction: Song Lyrics -> Lyrics Are Poetry (on Music) -- you might wish to edit appearance of the Literature link label: It now says: "Literature: Poetry | ...". Once followed, no mention of "Literature" anywhere. Literature is a good word to keep, but right now it's hard to figure out if it modifies only Poetry or the entire row of the siblings! My eye wants to bind Literature to Poetry only. Plus, following that 1st link, Poetry, treacherously bifurcates into a world of poems on your server, with two separate indices, and a grab-bag of everything else, also including poetry, only not on your web page, so flowing out of your space -plus- there is a Literature sibling link under a subsection ("Song Lyrics"->Lyrics are Poetry). Ok, be that way, nonlinear and all -- but the navigation should then be extremely clear. 3. the two Author/Poem tables have inconsistent behavior under Lynx. One renders right: just like in a graphic browser. The other collapses into a vertical run (Poems by Author). It would be better to embed both as ul/il so as to make sense of them semantically as a list to an intelligent browser or search engine that may make use of that information in the future -- a reading browser, or a search made for lists, for instance. Tables also load slower on my IIci under Netscape 3.04. Browsers wait until the table code is all parsed. You can avoid slowing the loading, minimize possible breakage, and provide better time behavior as these pages grow. You could use the dl/dt/dd or just dl/dd definition list mechanism which would offer both indentation and semantic grouping akin to ul/li. These are not problematic as tables to fragile browsers. There is no reason to use tables here semantically, and in fact, they disguise the semantics -- the content -is- an unordered list, or in the case of Poem by Author (the one that collapses), a definition list. You are losing meta-information that may be of use. For instance, I envision browsers giving summaries and outlines of sites, so it would be nice not to fool such a browser which otherwise might speak out loud: 'Ilse.Hirvonen@mail.com has a -list- of links here called...' vs. 'Ilse... has a table of things here, 2 columns by n rows,...'. Possibly a future search engine searching for lists not just snippets of text may favor your list over other results. 4. the music stuff is very hard to navigate or visualize a map for. What you have now is a mess that locally looks beautiful to the eye but is a pain to move around in. I know you are redoing the site, so here is a navigation improvement suggestion: A single Music portal at Further + introducing #top/#bottom (0), and the top-navigation and bottom-navigation on long list pages would streamline navigation, make the pages scalable, make the browsing fast for anyone who lands on those pages, especially people coming in from search engine snags. You already relegated Lyrics Are Poetry to a subsection of music.htm -as a link-. Place it on music.htm physically -- doing so would help people with the Within-the-Page searches, once they snag the page with a search engine -- or once they come in through the front door and ask themselves if you have this or that. In a word, you would allow browsing to the fullest, browsing by reminding. You already break up pages correctly by graphic content -- but there is no reason to not coalesce related pure texts. Also: Breaking up things across tiny pages makes it harder to search using the Find/Find Next. That functionality is one great advantage of pure text html in a simple browser vs. seeing information encoded graphically in jpegs. And you know from your logs, people tend not to go deep into convoluted trees. For some it may be physically taxing... The present lyrics.htm would instantly benefit from being but on music.htm and having music.htm use top-/bottom- navigation and (0). Ok, enough. These are not parental encroachments, don't be annoyed. Think of them as neurological opinion of fellow parent who dabbles in sports medicine :) -- I want your baby to flex something lovely for everyone who visits. I also hope to learn from your say. I already have learned a lot. All this offered freely, with room for being wrong. *hug* -- Marek -- ------------------- http://www.enteract.com/~marek/ ------------------- 1 Clickable geomap Magical Mystery Tour last add Kristie's postcard 2 HalinaFAQ (now also po polsku) Halina Poswiatowska Translation Project 3 A Small Garlic Press (ASGP) A 501c3 Nonprofit Corp $2/chapbook poetry