I ascribe to the same attitude; I use that when someone tries to attack my reasoning.* When they do, I attack the basis for their reasoning, usually attacking "law of excluded middle" when they try to throw either/or-sies at me. [or if it's a atheism/religious debate (I'm both and neither; they're both platonic to me generally) - I give a short-history-of-Atheism or some stuff about biological flaws of any kind of pure reason being even biologically possible (it doesn't seem to be).* That stops them dead] Math still can't tell me when I'm going to start destroying the structure on a whim from within, except perhaps some kind of vague probability that can't even tell me where the moon will be exactly in a few months :P [I still can't believe we haven't figured that one out entirely] Timelessness; yes, I also allow for some unmoving of mind; perhaps a state of ultimate constraint and/or ultimate freedom; a plate balanced for a moment on a nearly infinitely small needle with a greater perspective of things as-they-are at that moment than is normally possible. Or a point of self-awareness where one experiences the flow of things without being moved by it yet also moving with it.* Stace's description of the mystical experience via a point where categorization isn't possible during the experience but only afterwords in an odd sounding way really hit the nail on the head for me with that. Quale; I think that's going to be something our current investigative systems will eventually have to face; the nature of experience via experience... or viewing subjective on subjective terms rather than objectifying it. Been working on nature-of-consciousness stuff for about a year and a half now. So many unexpected directions; had no idea. [1][IMG] References Visible links 1. https://plus.google.com/u/0/116220525110856958463