S D F - 1 Bulletin Board ================================================================================ BBOARD POSTS TOPIC ================================================================================ WEB [0005] Making WWW pages. GOPHER [0003] Port 70 - before The Web GENERAL [0038] Random Discussions, News and Thoughts REQUESTS [0025] Software Package Install and Update Requests SHARED [0004] Sharing SDF resources responsibly, users respecting users HUMOR [0009] It's funny. Laugh. HELPDESK [0032] Users Helping Users BITCH [0010] a bitch board for airing the grievances of everyday life. BSD [0007] BSD Discussions and Announcements MUSIC [0005] % MUSIC does not exist. -- wtf SPACE [0001] The meek will inherit the earth... 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IPV6 [0000] IPv6 is coming. It's arrival is mandatory. LOCAL [0002] Local bboard info POLLS [0006] SDFers love polls COOKING [0005] Food Overload INVEST [0001] Stocks, Bonds, Savings, Mutual Funds and the like BANKING [0002] questinos about banks BOOKCLUB [0001] SDF Book Club DOH [0001] your not so bright moments CRYPTO [0001] Cryptography, codes and encryption LINUX [0002] Why did the penguin cross the road? MATH [0002] Math discussion. MORSE [0002] morse code and ham radio operators MUD [0001] exit RELIGION [0003] Shalom Aleichem TWENEX [0001] SDF user contributed software VPN [0002] SDF VPN Use and Configuration Discussions Command: ARCHIVE SDF BBOARD Archives 1994 1995 1996 1997 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 Which year? You are now in the 2007 archives. Command: SEARCH (KEYWORD) % Searching on avoyager TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: the conspiracy ... DATE: 26-Mar-07 02:27:58 HOST: sverige "a conspiracy to keep the truth in the dark" That's well stated. Thank you. As I heard it, the psychopaths spent far more money trying to nail Clintons on "Whitewater" than they did on investigating the attack upon and collapse of the World Trade Towers. But then, the three year old bipartisan U.S. Commission on National Security submitted its final report, "Roadmap for National Security: Imperative for Change", to the White House on February 15, 2001. They threw it into the trash immediately, and said that Cheney was the only authority on such matters, and he'd come up with a proper plan. But then, Dickie got sidetracked taking dictation from Enron and the energy sector, coming up instead with an, um, "Energy Policy", while then National Security Advisor Condi "mushroom cloud" Rice was fumbling over what to do with the top-secret memo titled "Bin Laden Determined To Strike in U.S." Yep. That's one helluva team there. <911TRUTH.26-Mar-07>[ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: the bigger picture DATE: 28-Mar-07 13:04:11 HOST: sverige OK, all. One additional way to look at this situation is to acknowledge the significant group of thoughtful researchers who aren't at the extreme of saying George and Did did it; but who see clearly that those two individuals, and their collective spheres of influence, FAILED in several different opportunities to reduce the probability of the tragedy actually taking place. With or without conspiracy, there are a LOT of unanswered questions about their behaviors since taking office, each of which shifted the odds against us and in favor of the strike's success; and several situations which indicate some foreknowledge of the plan, and no attempt to disrupt it. In this picture, the guilty parties might be actively perpetrating the "wild ass" theories in order to take people off the real track. From what I've garnered, they were certainly negligent; and until some of those key questions are answered, and key evidence released, they have a significant probability of also being complicit. That's pretty calm, rationa, and clear, eh? <911TRUTH.28-Mar-07>[ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: the bigger picture DATE: 28-Mar-07 13:04:11 HOST: sverige OK, all. One additional way to look at this situation is to acknowledge the significant group of thoughtful researchers who aren't at the extreme of saying George and Did did it; but who see clearly that those two individuals, and their collective spheres of influence, FAILED in several different opportunities to reduce the probability of the tragedy actually taking place. With or without conspiracy, there are a LOT of unanswered questions about their behaviors since taking office, each of which shifted the odds against us and in favor of the strike's success; and several situations which indicate some foreknowledge of the plan, and no attempt to disrupt it. In this picture, the guilty parties might be actively perpetrating the "wild ass" theories in order to take people off the real track. From what I've garnered, they were certainly negligent; and until some of those key questions are answered, and key evidence released, they have a significant probability of also being complicit. That's pretty calm, rationa, and clear, eh? ........TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: new thread (vpn) as requested DATE: 18-Feb-07 03:13:57 HOST: sverige In response to your request for experience with the new VPN server .... I applied the MPPE patch to a Debian kernel and followed other instructions at pptpclient.sourceforge.net but still haven't figured out how to put together the connection (ppp), the interface (ifconfig), the routing (route), and whatever else I may be missing. Also, on a w2k system NAT'd in my local lan, I launched the native tunnel option and got a connection but failed the authentication. I haven't found the proper documentation yet to guide me toward any necessary firewall config. But was quite easily able to get a NAT'd linux system on that lan to make an OpenVPN connection. Also, I have a pptp connection tool for my OS/2 system which provides the gateway and firewall for the local lan, but it doesn't support any encryption and I'm not about to try to find/install MPPE there as it's a MS proprietary product, and MS doesn't make anything which doesn't incorporate code specifically intended to break OS/2 systems. Also, I installed a new FreeBSD 6.1 system for this and other purposes, but it died during pkgsource installation due to insufficient inodes (plenty of space available however); but that's a matter for a different discussion. So, I don't find anything about this nearly as easy as SSH tunnels or OpenVPN. But I'll probably keep working at this anyway, because I like to help, and because I'm genuinely curious. By the way, why are we using pptp/mppe rather than openvpn/tls ? [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: new thread (vpn) as requested DATE: 18-Feb-07 03:13:57 HOST: sverige In response to your request for experience with the new VPN server .... I applied the MPPE patch to a Debian kernel and followed other instructions at pptpclient.sourceforge.net but still haven't figured out how to put together the connection (ppp), the interface (ifconfig), the routing (route), and whatever else I may be missing. Also, on a w2k system NAT'd in my local lan, I launched the native tunnel option and got a connection but failed the authentication. I haven't found the proper documentation yet to guide me toward any necessary firewall config. But was quite easily able to get a NAT'd linux system on that lan to make an OpenVPN connection. Also, I have a pptp connection tool for my OS/2 system which provides the gateway and firewall for the local lan, but it doesn't support any encryption and I'm not about to try to find/install MPPE there as it's a MS proprietary product, and MS doesn't make anything which doesn't incorporate code specifically intended to break OS/2 systems. Also, I installed a new FreeBSD 6.1 system for this and other purposes, but it died during pkgsource installation due to insufficient inodes (plenty of space available however); but that's a matter for a different discussion. So, I don't find anything about this nearly as easy as SSH tunnels or OpenVPN. But I'll probably keep working at this anyway, because I like to help, and because I'm genuinely curious. By the way, why are we using pptp/mppe rather than openvpn/tls ? TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: Two things are clear DATE: 19-Oct-06 21:08:02 HOST: sverige 1. If we had a different smj, we'd have a different SDF. 2. There is no other SDF. Less clear to everybody, but true for me, is: This SDF is way more better than just "fine". [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: Two things are clear DATE: 19-Oct-06 21:08:02 HOST: sverige 1. If we had a different smj, we'd have a different SDF. 2. There is no other SDF. Less clear to everybody, but true for me, is: This SDF is way more better than just "fine". ...TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: the money DATE: 20-May-07 13:28:21 HOST: sverige Not that this is a bitch; but I wanted this thread tied to the "trouble with reality" thread here, more than I could think of a more appropriate board other than general. The_Money .... in simplest terms ... is either manufactured, or exchanged. It doesn't "grow" like trees and flowers; that would be "manufactured". SO, those who accumulate money, either manufacture it (directly or indirectly), or take it from others one way or another (such as in exchange for services rendered or products provided). Any disagreements with this fundamental view? [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: the money DATE: 20-May-07 13:28:21 HOST: sverige Not that this is a bitch; but I wanted this thread tied to the "trouble with reality" thread here, more than I could think of a more appropriate board other than general. The_Money .... in simplest terms ... is either manufactured, or exchanged. It doesn't "grow" like trees and flowers; that would be "manufactured". SO, those who accumulate money, either manufacture it (directly or indirectly), or take it from others one way or another (such as in exchange for services rendered or products provided). Any disagreements with this fundamental view? ........TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: 20 yr. Anniversary of OS/2 - a History DATE: 03-Apr-07 21:49:33 HOST: sverige now that the biases are aside, the press comes out pretty clean with this one, an enjoyable read of the 20 yr. history of OS/2, still in play today. http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=38666 [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: 20 yr. Anniversary of OS/2 - a History DATE: 03-Apr-07 21:49:33 HOST: sverige now that the biases are aside, the press comes out pretty clean with this one, an enjoyable read of the 20 yr. history of OS/2, still in play today. http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=38666 .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: about that deity DATE: 04-Nov-06 18:26:16 HOST: sverige Your predecessors believed that the deities caused the rain to fall and the sun to rise. You've learned that those events have other causes, within your perception of your universe. Some of your contemporarys believe that a deity can cause volcanoes, tsunamis, and random acts of violence by humans. You've learned that those events have other causes, within your perception of your universe. Some of your contemporarys believe that their deity is now dutifully attending to their prayers and supplications. You have marvelled at their persistence in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, and somewhat scornfully wondered if they are neglecting their personal responsibilities. Some of your contemporarys believe that their deity will one day appear upon their porch and lead them onto a bus bound for some eternal glory. You have observed that these things have not happened, within your perception of your universe. And you have not seen a deity within your perception of your universe, .... EXCEPT ... within nearly all those who have gone before you, and so many of those who surround you. You might blame this deity, or any belief in it, for the apparent fact that everybody is wrong about this except you; or for its not making itself better known by, or understood by, you. But to do so would be to acknowledge it, and you reject this conundrum, or become crazed and irrational, which you of all people CANNOT abide. Yet you know that there is SOMETHING which leads us to discover that the earth is not flat, that the sun neither rises nor shines, that earthquakes do not have anger, or revenge; that SOMETHING leads us to wonder about those things which we do not understand, and to love certain things above others, even to the point of sacrifice. You KNOW that there is imagination, and inspiration, and you do NOT know its origins, causes or purposes, even within your perception of your universe, as it exists now, not formerly. The deity, it turns out, is not just poorly understood; it is terribly MISunderstood. Seriously folks. More folks have a botched understanding of it than have a lack of understanding of it. And that's pretty much all which separates it from us; is its perfection, toward which we may strive or stumble along our way. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: about that deity DATE: 04-Nov-06 18:26:16 HOST: sverige Your predecessors believed that the deities caused the rain to fall and the sun to rise. You've learned that those events have other causes, within your perception of your universe. Some of your contemporarys believe that a deity can cause volcanoes, tsunamis, and random acts of violence by humans. You've learned that those events have other causes, within your perception of your universe. Some of your contemporarys believe that their deity is now dutifully attending to their prayers and supplications. You have marvelled at their persistence in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, and somewhat scornfully wondered if they are neglecting their personal responsibilities. Some of your contemporarys believe that their deity will one day appear upon their porch and lead them onto a bus bound for some eternal glory. You have observed that these things have not happened, within your perception of your universe. And you have not seen a deity within your perception of your universe, .... EXCEPT ... within nearly all those who have gone before you, and so many of those who surround you. You might blame this deity, or any belief in it, for the apparent fact that everybody is wrong about this except you; or for its not making itself better known by, or understood by, you. But to do so would be to acknowledge it, and you reject this conundrum, or become crazed and irrational, which you of all people CANNOT abide. Yet you know that there is SOMETHING which leads us to discover that the earth is not flat, that the sun neither rises nor shines, that earthquakes do not have anger, or revenge; that SOMETHING leads us to wonder about those things which we do not understand, and to love certain things above others, even to the point of sacrifice. You KNOW that there is imagination, and inspiration, and you do NOT know its origins, causes or purposes, even within your perception of your universe, as it exists now, not formerly. The deity, it turns out, is not just poorly understood; it is terribly MISunderstood. Seriously folks. More folks have a botched understanding of it than have a lack of understanding of it. And that's pretty much all which separates it from us; is its perfection, toward which we may strive or stumble along our way. .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: Theology DATE: 08-Aug-07 13:37:14 HOST: otaku "You cannot be spiritually reborn without some knowledge of the new or spiritual life, of the true things that you ought to believe and the good things that you ought to do. You cannot learn these things on your own, because on your own you can comprehend things only through your physical senses. Your physical senses give you information about the material world and yourself, not about heaven and God. Spiritual knowledge comes only from revelation." --Emanuel Swedenborg [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: Theology DATE: 08-Aug-07 13:37:14 HOST: otaku "You cannot be spiritually reborn without some knowledge of the new or spiritual life, of the true things that you ought to believe and the good things that you ought to do. You cannot learn these things on your own, because on your own you can comprehend things only through your physical senses. Your physical senses give you information about the material world and yourself, not about heaven and God. Spiritual knowledge comes only from revelation." --Emanuel Swedenborg .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: Registrars DATE: 15-Dec-06 16:30:56 HOST: sverige Which registrars are friendly to unix, linux, BSD, and other non-MS systems? I've enjoyed using GoDaddy for a lot of years now; and they may solve their problem before I relocate, but for today, their new ajax based interface requires IE7 according to the third level support super I just spoke with. Most functions work with Mozilla 1.7.7 and Java 1.4 which kind of discounts the notion that more is required, but setting up dns hosts does not. I discover that IE7 requires Windows XP and I am never nohow going to load that anyplace. I manage to keep w2kPro around for the kids, but that's as far as I'm going down that path. So, is there a more "socially responsible" registrar which you would like to recommend? [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: Registrars DATE: 15-Dec-06 16:30:56 HOST: sverige Which registrars are friendly to unix, linux, BSD, and other non-MS systems? I've enjoyed using GoDaddy for a lot of years now; and they may solve their problem before I relocate, but for today, their new ajax based interface requires IE7 according to the third level support super I just spoke with. Most functions work with Mozilla 1.7.7 and Java 1.4 which kind of discounts the notion that more is required, but setting up dns hosts does not. I discover that IE7 requires Windows XP and I am never nohow going to load that anyplace. I manage to keep w2kPro around for the kids, but that's as far as I'm going down that path. So, is there a more "socially responsible" registrar which you would like to recommend? .....TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: email - nolisting foils bot-zombies DATE: 03-Jul-07 22:37:30 HOST: sverige Actually, I don't have current evidence that it does, but I do suggest it as a defense during the next attack. The page describing nolisting has been posted to bboard a couple times this year, and isn't hard to find in a websearch. What makes it superior to greylisting is that there is zero processing overhead on the mailhost. Zombie, and other spam source connectionns aren't even made to the mailhost. It's the kind of thing which requires careful study and consideration however before implementing; but so does greylisting and many other things. It seems to me that a major bot-zombie "attack" would be a perfect time to test and evaluate nolisting. Several major mailhost admins have reported stupendous positive results (having taken into account careful testing for the equivalent of "false positives"). From what we saw during the last run, it doesn't seem like it could hurt at all, anyway. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: email - nolisting foils bot-zombies DATE: 03-Jul-07 22:37:30 HOST: sverige Actually, I don't have current evidence that it does, but I do suggest it as a defense during the next attack. The page describing nolisting has been posted to bboard a couple times this year, and isn't hard to find in a websearch. What makes it superior to greylisting is that there is zero processing overhead on the mailhost. Zombie, and other spam source connectionns aren't even made to the mailhost. It's the kind of thing which requires careful study and consideration however before implementing; but so does greylisting and many other things. It seems to me that a major bot-zombie "attack" would be a perfect time to test and evaluate nolisting. Several major mailhost admins have reported stupendous positive results (having taken into account careful testing for the equivalent of "false positives"). From what we saw during the last run, it doesn't seem like it could hurt at all, anyway. ..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: Greylist or Nolist DATE: 09-Feb-07 01:29:05 HOST: sverige Here's a new concept of "nolisting" as an alternative to greylisting. I'm not offering this as a recommendation at this time, but the idea is of merit and well presented and well thought out; though not yet sufficiently peer reviewed. It makes the statement that "Any site that cannot cope with Nolisting is in an indefensible position." which can be equally applied to greylisting. It also makes this statement which I think will resonate favorably with many SDFers: "Implementation requires precision, coordination, strict discipline, and is vulnerable to human error. If this is beyond the ability of you or your staff, don't do it." Here it is: http://www.joreybump.com/code/howto/nolisting.html [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: Greylist or Nolist DATE: 09-Feb-07 01:29:05 HOST: sverige Here's a new concept of "nolisting" as an alternative to greylisting. I'm not offering this as a recommendation at this time, but the idea is of merit and well presented and well thought out; though not yet sufficiently peer reviewed. It makes the statement that "Any site that cannot cope with Nolisting is in an indefensible position." which can be equally applied to greylisting. It also makes this statement which I think will resonate favorably with many SDFers: "Implementation requires precision, coordination, strict discipline, and is vulnerable to human error. If this is beyond the ability of you or your staff, don't do it." Here it is: http://www.joreybump.com/code/howto/nolisting.html ...TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: Deleted File Recovery DATE: 18-Jul-07 02:24:22 HOST: sverige The situation is an SD memory card used in a digital camera. The misfortuen is the unfortunate erasure of photos on the card, using the camera's delete function. The goal is to recover the image files. A USB connected external card reader is available. The request here is for your experience, techniques, tips, or advices. Thank you all very much in advance :) avo --- [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: Deleted File Recovery DATE: 18-Jul-07 02:24:22 HOST: sverige The situation is an SD memory card used in a digital camera. The misfortuen is the unfortunate erasure of photos on the card, using the camera's delete function. The goal is to recover the image files. A USB connected external card reader is available. The request here is for your experience, techniques, tips, or advices. Thank you all very much in advance :) avo --- .....TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: History of Internet DATE: 18-Apr-07 15:10:00 HOST: sverige http://www.bordergatewayprotocol.net/jon/humor/internet_history/ [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: History of Internet DATE: 18-Apr-07 15:10:00 HOST: sverige http://www.bordergatewayprotocol.net/jon/humor/internet_history/ TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: Not OK DATE: 13-Apr-07 13:11:42 HOST: sverige The recent events surrounding Imus point to several important social situations of the day. Most notable from my perspective is how the hypocritical media outlets parrot and amplify that which they deride as unacceptable. Or maybe they really aren't calling it unacceptable at all, just amplifying it and burning it into listeners' minds because they endorse it openly. Associatedly, note that this is pretty standard Imus. Suddenly his advertisers don't like it; but they have been feeding, fueling, and promoting it all along. But let's not credit them with anything like a conscience. Probably they're just trying to look "green". And then there's the media outlets which with one hand bow to the will of their advertisers, and with the other hand let their shouting heads propagate the exact very same message for which they agree to can Imus. Imus, in a way, has been a victim here, a tool, of the political-advertising-bigmedia propaganda machine. So are many of us, if you'll carefully observe, and don't take special care to avoid. Just by way of one small example, anyone who speaks and thinks 4.99 instead of 5.0 monetary units has "been had". A smaller, but still way too large, example are all those who STILL believe that Iraq had WMD and was responsible for the attack upon the World Trade Center (which they refuse to even call by its real name). All those red counties on U.S. election maps, .... those are the ones with very restricted access to a diverse media or open-minded discuscourse, or university level resources and activity. Thanks for caring :) [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: Not OK DATE: 13-Apr-07 13:11:42 HOST: sverige The recent events surrounding Imus point to several important social situations of the day. Most notable from my perspective is how the hypocritical media outlets parrot and amplify that which they deride as unacceptable. Or maybe they really aren't calling it unacceptable at all, just amplifying it and burning it into listeners' minds because they endorse it openly. Associatedly, note that this is pretty standard Imus. Suddenly his advertisers don't like it; but they have been feeding, fueling, and promoting it all along. But let's not credit them with anything like a conscience. Probably they're just trying to look "green". And then there's the media outlets which with one hand bow to the will of their advertisers, and with the other hand let their shouting heads propagate the exact very same message for which they agree to can Imus. Imus, in a way, has been a victim here, a tool, of the political-advertising-bigmedia propaganda machine. So are many of us, if you'll carefully observe, and don't take special care to avoid. Just by way of one small example, anyone who speaks and thinks 4.99 instead of 5.0 monetary units has "been had". A smaller, but still way too large, example are all those who STILL believe that Iraq had WMD and was responsible for the attack upon the World Trade Center (which they refuse to even call by its real name). All those red counties on U.S. election maps, .... those are the ones with very restricted access to a diverse media or open-minded discuscourse, or university level resources and activity. Thanks for caring :) .......TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: Document Development DATE: 02-Feb-07 14:52:32 HOST: sverige AUP and ByLaws are maintained in RCS at nonnic.org I find RCS to be a singl-user system however without providing any discussion space for collaboration and question-answer venue. Wiki provides a better platform for that use, and I've found two which even work directly with the RCS. One is twiki, which I've installed at yager.non but that doesn't have network access to the files hosted at sdf.non, so I'm not sure where that's going yet; just dabbling at it; I'll probably copy the sdf.non files to yager.non and give us all a chance to see how each work; and if either can experience some participation. The better solution, imho, is to ask smj to install ikiwiki on sdf.non so that participants can use either the gui wiki or the terminal RCS. Part of the solution to the question of how and where to do the document devlopment includes the consideration of who should be able to view the documents and who should be enabled to edit them. Notes on ikiwiki and other early stab at a wiki for The NON are at http://avoyager.freeshell.org/The_NON/wiki/ but I'm going to delete that site soon in favor of the new one. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: Document Development DATE: 02-Feb-07 14:52:32 HOST: sverige AUP and ByLaws are maintained in RCS at nonnic.org I find RCS to be a singl-user system however without providing any discussion space for collaboration and question-answer venue. Wiki provides a better platform for that use, and I've found two which even work directly with the RCS. One is twiki, which I've installed at yager.non but that doesn't have network access to the files hosted at sdf.non, so I'm not sure where that's going yet; just dabbling at it; I'll probably copy the sdf.non files to yager.non and give us all a chance to see how each work; and if either can experience some participation. The better solution, imho, is to ask smj to install ikiwiki on sdf.non so that participants can use either the gui wiki or the terminal RCS. Part of the solution to the question of how and where to do the document devlopment includes the consideration of who should be able to view the documents and who should be enabled to edit them. Notes on ikiwiki and other early stab at a wiki for The NON are at http://avoyager.freeshell.org/The_NON/wiki/ but I'm going to delete that site soon in favor of the new one. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: Open Discussion DATE: 02-Feb-07 15:15:11 HOST: sverige This bboard forum is available to SDFers. There is a public forum at forum.nonnic.org and a public IRC channel at irc.nonnic.org:3600 #non and I'll likely add something on the wiki with a public address. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: Open Discussion DATE: 02-Feb-07 15:15:11 HOST: sverige This bboard forum is available to SDFers. There is a public forum at forum.nonnic.org and a public IRC channel at irc.nonnic.org:3600 #non and I'll likely add something on the wiki with a public address. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: re-energizing the project DATE: 21-Jan-07 21:54:56 HOST: sverige The NON cooperative network, a project of the SDF community, has been revitalized by avoyager and ssc after a long hiatus. The philosophy of the NON is simple: there is no advertising, and no one has ultimate authority. Rather than paying money to be listed in the NON namespace, new members instead present a certificate to be signed by existing members of the NONNIC web of trust, verifying the new site as being non-commercial and thereby eliminating the problem of spam. NON sites operate within the .non top-level domain, for which there are currently two nameservers (at yager and ssc's sites). To access the NON, set your computer's DNS servers to 72.29.79.136 and/or 91.84.22.18, then point your web browser to http://nic.non/hosts.html for a list of all current NON domains. We are looking for volunteers to help build the network. There are no requirements for running a NON site, other than acceptance of the policy of non-commercial use. Domain registration is free and open to the public - contact ssc@stonebaked.net to have your domain created (see http://stonebaked.net/domreg.html for details). If you would like to run a nameserver and/or certificate authority for the NON, please let us know and we will add your site to the DNS root or the NONNIC. For real time, and time lapsed, discussion, we maintain an IRC channel #non on stonebaked.net Document development is by RCS on sdf.non (nonnic.org) /var/html. However, we're looking for a suitable wiki to provide collaboration (discussion) for the development of documents, policies, and the technical foundation. For starters, see http://avoyager.freeshell.org/The_NON/wiki/ but the superior solution is probably going to be another engine installed by smj onto sdf.non (nonnic.org). As the tentative wiki discloses, my current recommendation is to install ikiwiki for reasons stated. Prior bboard discussion of the NON is in the 2006 archive. Maybe we can garner enough collective energy and attention to make some more real progress on this project this time around. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: re-energizing the project DATE: 21-Jan-07 21:54:56 HOST: sverige The NON cooperative network, a project of the SDF community, has been revitalized by avoyager and ssc after a long hiatus. The philosophy of the NON is simple: there is no advertising, and no one has ultimate authority. Rather than paying money to be listed in the NON namespace, new members instead present a certificate to be signed by existing members of the NONNIC web of trust, verifying the new site as being non-commercial and thereby eliminating the problem of spam. NON sites operate within the .non top-level domain, for which there are currently two nameservers (at yager and ssc's sites). To access the NON, set your computer's DNS servers to 72.29.79.136 and/or 91.84.22.18, then point your web browser to http://nic.non/hosts.html for a list of all current NON domains. We are looking for volunteers to help build the network. There are no requirements for running a NON site, other than acceptance of the policy of non-commercial use. Domain registration is free and open to the public - contact ssc@stonebaked.net to have your domain created (see http://stonebaked.net/domreg.html for details). If you would like to run a nameserver and/or certificate authority for the NON, please let us know and we will add your site to the DNS root or the NONNIC. For real time, and time lapsed, discussion, we maintain an IRC channel #non on stonebaked.net Document development is by RCS on sdf.non (nonnic.org) /var/html. However, we're looking for a suitable wiki to provide collaboration (discussion) for the development of documents, policies, and the technical foundation. For starters, see http://avoyager.freeshell.org/The_NON/wiki/ but the superior solution is probably going to be another engine installed by smj onto sdf.non (nonnic.org). As the tentative wiki discloses, my current recommendation is to install ikiwiki for reasons stated. Prior bboard discussion of the NON is in the 2006 archive. Maybe we can garner enough collective energy and attention to make some more real progress on this project this time around. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: DNS status DATE: 26-Jan-07 02:30:57 HOST: sverige DNS is in place and functioning; though still centralized; but distributed. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: DNS status DATE: 26-Jan-07 02:30:57 HOST: sverige DNS is in place and functioning; though still centralized; but distributed. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: Email status DATE: 26-Jan-07 02:36:06 HOST: sverige Email is being received at sdf.non ; but it doesn't seem to be getting out to other NON hosts. From test@yager.non Fri Jan 26 02:04:23 2007 Return-Path: Received: from host.yager.non ([204.13.171.173]) by sdf.non (8.13.5.20060308/8.12.10) with ESMTP id l0Q24NDX015073 for ; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 02:04:23 GMT Received: by host.yager.non (Postfix, from userid 1027) id CE68CFCC1B7; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 02:04:32 +0000 (GMT) To: avoyager@sdf.non Subject: lookin gOOd! Message-Id: <20070126020432.CE68CFCC1B7@host.yager.non> Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 02:04:32 +0000 (GMT) From: test@yager.non I suspect that sdf.non's outbound server is not yet NON aware. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: Email status DATE: 26-Jan-07 02:36:06 HOST: sverige Email is being received at sdf.non ; but it doesn't seem to be getting out to other NON hosts. From test@yager.non Fri Jan 26 02:04:23 2007 Return-Path: Received: from host.yager.non ([204.13.171.173]) by sdf.non (8.13.5.20060308/8.12.10) with ESMTP id l0Q24NDX015073 for ; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 02:04:23 GMT Received: by host.yager.non (Postfix, from userid 1027) id CE68CFCC1B7; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 02:04:32 +0000 (GMT) To: avoyager@sdf.non Subject: lookin gOOd! Message-Id: <20070126020432.CE68CFCC1B7@host.yager.non> Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 02:04:32 +0000 (GMT) From: test@yager.non I suspect that sdf.non's outbound server is not yet NON aware. ....TACKER: jneitzel (J.A. Neitzel) SUBJECT: Any chance to fix MetaARPA web pages? DATE: 08-Aug-07 23:38:14 HOST: otaku Hey SMJ, Just an FYI... It looks like the MetaARPA websites are unavailable. They worked for a while, but the DNS is not pointing to otaku now. I guess it was for a while though. I just checked avoyager's, jboy's, poff's, vandahm's, and my URLs w/ no luck. Any chance you can have a look at the problem... Whatever it might be..? -- Thanks, jneitzel [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: jneitzel (J.A. Neitzel) SUBJECT: Any chance to fix MetaARPA web pages? DATE: 08-Aug-07 23:38:14 HOST: otaku Hey SMJ, Just an FYI... It looks like the MetaARPA websites are unavailable. They worked for a while, but the DNS is not pointing to otaku now. I guess it was for a while though. I just checked avoyager's, jboy's, poff's, vandahm's, and my URLs w/ no luck. Any chance you can have a look at the problem... Whatever it might be..? -- Thanks, jneitzel ...TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: flixter DATE: 28-Mar-07 16:19:49 HOST: sverige http://www.theinternetpatrol.com.nyud.net:8080/is-flixster-a-big-fat-spammer-are-they-hacking-your-aol-or-hotmail-address-book password snatching [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: flixter DATE: 28-Mar-07 16:19:49 HOST: sverige http://www.theinternetpatrol.com.nyud.net:8080/is-flixster-a-big-fat-spammer-are-they-hacking-your-aol-or-hotmail-address-book password snatching .....TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Rebuild the WTC as is? DATE: 24-Jun-07 13:14:20 HOST: sverige "as is" isn't much more than a monument to government failure, inadequacy, and incompetence; Perhaps you intended "as was" ?? and by architecure, name, or use? Personally I'd like to see a solar powered geodesic structure containing the library and proceedings of the ongoing People's 911 Truth Commission. Maybe in the basement there could be a room for World Trade as exemplified by the Iran-Contra Affair, nuclear proliferation, and weapons dealers. Above the World Trade sub-level could be another sub-terranean level dedicated to exposing the fascist police state of the host country. At ground levels, in orbit around the central dome, offices of peace advocacy groups and NGOs. Above these, house the Parliament of World's Religions. It's getting prettier all the time. Let's use this space to do what we should have done in 2001. Thanks for asking, avo --- <911TRUTH.24-Jun-07>[ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Rebuild the WTC as is? DATE: 24-Jun-07 13:14:20 HOST: sverige "as is" isn't much more than a monument to government failure, inadequacy, and incompetence; Perhaps you intended "as was" ?? and by architecure, name, or use? Personally I'd like to see a solar powered geodesic structure containing the library and proceedings of the ongoing People's 911 Truth Commission. Maybe in the basement there could be a room for World Trade as exemplified by the Iran-Contra Affair, nuclear proliferation, and weapons dealers. Above the World Trade sub-level could be another sub-terranean level dedicated to exposing the fascist police state of the host country. At ground levels, in orbit around the central dome, offices of peace advocacy groups and NGOs. Above these, house the Parliament of World's Religions. It's getting prettier all the time. Let's use this space to do what we should have done in 2001. Thanks for asking, avo --- TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. we seek the truth DATE: 16-Apr-07 00:17:58 HOST: sverige Fred, Responding to your statement "Do you really believe it is possible to create a fraud of large magnitude without a credible leak (not just a purported inconsistency) in such an open society as we have." What do you see as the magnitude and duration of the fraud of VietNam war before Daniel Ellsberg leaked "the Pentagon Papers"? or the truth about the lie in the Gulf of Tonkin? or Condi's "mushroom cloud" arising over the USA if her neocons didn't take out Saddam? or the lie about the sexuality of some relative of John McCain which was perpetrated by Georgie/Rove in the 2000 Republican Presidential Primary? In all these examples, and more, the truth did indeed ultimately appear. And in all cases it was "too late"; the damage of the lie had already been done. The fact of truth ultimately coming to light should not provide a basis for condoning the lies and desceptions, or for belittling the enormous amount of effort required to get the truth into the light, and the people in a receptive state to acknowledge it. And please don't dismiss the importance of the latter. It's hard to get people into a state where they're willing to admit that their government is lying to them. And it's harder yet, indeed nearly impossible, ot get them to belive that they themselves made a mistake or have been wrong all along, or that they themselves are biased, bigoted, victims of propaganda. Thanks for caring. <911TRUTH.16-Apr-07>[ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. we seek the truth DATE: 16-Apr-07 00:17:58 HOST: sverige Fred, Responding to your statement "Do you really believe it is possible to create a fraud of large magnitude without a credible leak (not just a purported inconsistency) in such an open society as we have." What do you see as the magnitude and duration of the fraud of VietNam war before Daniel Ellsberg leaked "the Pentagon Papers"? or the truth about the lie in the Gulf of Tonkin? or Condi's "mushroom cloud" arising over the USA if her neocons didn't take out Saddam? or the lie about the sexuality of some relative of John McCain which was perpetrated by Georgie/Rove in the 2000 Republican Presidential Primary? In all these examples, and more, the truth did indeed ultimately appear. And in all cases it was "too late"; the damage of the lie had already been done. The fact of truth ultimately coming to light should not provide a basis for condoning the lies and desceptions, or for belittling the enormous amount of effort required to get the truth into the light, and the people in a receptive state to acknowledge it. And please don't dismiss the importance of the latter. It's hard to get people into a state where they're willing to admit that their government is lying to them. And it's harder yet, indeed nearly impossible, ot get them to belive that they themselves made a mistake or have been wrong all along, or that they themselves are biased, bigoted, victims of propaganda. Thanks for caring. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. we seek the truth DATE: 17-May-07 03:33:47 HOST: sverige Yes, Fred, the truth did finally come out, a very long time after the damage had been done, and after any perpetrator of such treason could be held accountable. <911TRUTH.17-May-07>[ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. we seek the truth DATE: 17-May-07 03:33:47 HOST: sverige Yes, Fred, the truth did finally come out, a very long time after the damage had been done, and after any perpetrator of such treason could be held accountable. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. we seek the truth DATE: 25-Mar-07 18:20:55 HOST: sverige The only "Conspiracy Theory" out there is that promulgated by those turdlets in the big white cesspool at the end of Pennsylvania Ave., that Saddam caused "911". Everything else is just sound investigative research; and a whole lot of evidence sequestered by a gang which is incapable of providing a straight answer to almost any question. <911TRUTH.25-Mar-07>[ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. we seek the truth DATE: 25-Mar-07 18:20:55 HOST: sverige The only "Conspiracy Theory" out there is that promulgated by those turdlets in the big white cesspool at the end of Pennsylvania Ave., that Saddam caused "911". Everything else is just sound investigative research; and a whole lot of evidence sequestered by a gang which is incapable of providing a straight answer to almost any question. .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. we seek the truth DATE: 26-Mar-07 16:40:04 HOST: sverige Indeed, "truth, science, calm reasoning" are the precious perls of a good debate or investigative research. Yet it's the presentation reporting thereof which makes the case with the judicial public, even when it has manipulated the facts, faked the science, and proceeded with an unaassailable priority of self-preservation, preservationism, ideological fury, and partisan agenda. It happens ALL THE TIME in politics. It's arguably all that they do, is to lie, deceive, and manipulate for their greedy self-interests. When they're not just plainly witholding essential evidence all together. I'm confident that the open-source community can make a valid analysis if it has access to all the evidence. To ridicule them for trying, and for their listing the gaping faults in the official line, would be to succumb without thought. <911TRUTH.26-Mar-07>[ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. we seek the truth DATE: 26-Mar-07 16:40:04 HOST: sverige Indeed, "truth, science, calm reasoning" are the precious perls of a good debate or investigative research. Yet it's the presentation reporting thereof which makes the case with the judicial public, even when it has manipulated the facts, faked the science, and proceeded with an unaassailable priority of self-preservation, preservationism, ideological fury, and partisan agenda. It happens ALL THE TIME in politics. It's arguably all that they do, is to lie, deceive, and manipulate for their greedy self-interests. When they're not just plainly witholding essential evidence all together. I'm confident that the open-source community can make a valid analysis if it has access to all the evidence. To ridicule them for trying, and for their listing the gaping faults in the official line, would be to succumb without thought. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. we seek the truth DATE: 27-Mar-07 14:17:13 HOST: sverige "Your boss sed you awk to get back to work." Good Catch ;-} <911TRUTH.27-Mar-07>[ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. we seek the truth DATE: 27-Mar-07 14:17:13 HOST: sverige "Your boss sed you awk to get back to work." Good Catch ;-} TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. the conspiracy ... DATE: 26-Mar-07 16:51:45 HOST: sverige Nah. Nothing will change within the existing two party, plurality based, privately funded, system. The options as I see them are: Vote Green to change the system. Join the 50% of registered voters who say "I'm not supporting your system any longer." by casting empty ballots or not casting ballots. Else, Condi v. Hillary will become the pinnacle of U.S. political development indeed. <911TRUTH.26-Mar-07>[ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. the conspiracy ... DATE: 26-Mar-07 16:51:45 HOST: sverige Nah. Nothing will change within the existing two party, plurality based, privately funded, system. The options as I see them are: Vote Green to change the system. Join the 50% of registered voters who say "I'm not supporting your system any longer." by casting empty ballots or not casting ballots. Else, Condi v. Hillary will become the pinnacle of U.S. political development indeed. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. the conspiracy ... DATE: 27-Mar-07 04:26:47 HOST: sverige Neither the Democrats nor the Republicans are THE BIG problem. They're both just transient little problems. Voting for one is the same as voting for the other, and voting for either one is a show of support for a criminally corrupt system limited to only 2 "parties", and a failed plurality counting system. It doesn't matter if you see it or not :) Gore received more Nader votes in 2000 than Nader received Gore votes. If you want to settle for the least worst of two options, you're welcome to it. I don't cast votes for candidates who I don't want in office. So take your pick. Hillary or Condi. You'll get Cheney and Carlyle with either one. I still won't support a candidate or position which I don't want. It's a simple matter of principle and integrity. <911TRUTH.27-Mar-07>[ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. the conspiracy ... DATE: 27-Mar-07 04:26:47 HOST: sverige Neither the Democrats nor the Republicans are THE BIG problem. They're both just transient little problems. Voting for one is the same as voting for the other, and voting for either one is a show of support for a criminally corrupt system limited to only 2 "parties", and a failed plurality counting system. It doesn't matter if you see it or not :) Gore received more Nader votes in 2000 than Nader received Gore votes. If you want to settle for the least worst of two options, you're welcome to it. I don't cast votes for candidates who I don't want in office. So take your pick. Hillary or Condi. You'll get Cheney and Carlyle with either one. I still won't support a candidate or position which I don't want. It's a simple matter of principle and integrity. TACKER: Anonymous (Anonymous) SUBJECT: .. the conspiracy ... DATE: 27-Mar-07 05:05:29 clearly avoyager has something to hide. a vote for nader is a good vote for both nader and the democrats. vote nader. <911TRUTH.27-Mar-07>[ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: Anonymous (Anonymous) SUBJECT: .. the conspiracy ... DATE: 27-Mar-07 05:05:29 clearly avoyager has something to hide. a vote for nader is a good vote for both nader and the democrats. vote nader. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. the bigger picture DATE: 14-May-07 20:48:18 HOST: sverige Well, without Iran of course, Regan would have never acquired the throne and shredded the Constitution. <911TRUTH.14-May-07>[ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. the bigger picture DATE: 14-May-07 20:48:18 HOST: sverige Well, without Iran of course, Regan would have never acquired the throne and shredded the Constitution. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. the bigger picture DATE: 16-Apr-07 12:11:25 HOST: sverige You're either kidding or daft. Georgie? "plan"? "9/11"? What a ridiculous mockery of his real negligence and complicity. He certainly did not, and is not nearly clever enough or capable enough, to plan the attack upon the World Trade Center. However, "9/11", as an emblem of the reconstruction of militant extremests within "the Muslim world" AND the U.S., he and his cabal are certainly the fabricators. You should carefully watch "The Power of Nightmares", if you have any integrity for truth. <911TRUTH.16-Apr-07>[ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. the bigger picture DATE: 16-Apr-07 12:11:25 HOST: sverige You're either kidding or daft. Georgie? "plan"? "9/11"? What a ridiculous mockery of his real negligence and complicity. He certainly did not, and is not nearly clever enough or capable enough, to plan the attack upon the World Trade Center. However, "9/11", as an emblem of the reconstruction of militant extremests within "the Muslim world" AND the U.S., he and his cabal are certainly the fabricators. You should carefully watch "The Power of Nightmares", if you have any integrity for truth. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. cindy sheehan leaves office DATE: 14-Jun-07 04:45:06 HOST: sverige ? We did not "descend" from apes. We "ascended". :) <911TRUTH.14-Jun-07>[ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. cindy sheehan leaves office DATE: 14-Jun-07 04:45:06 HOST: sverige ? We did not "descend" from apes. We "ascended". :) TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. cindy sheehan leaves office DATE: 29-May-07 13:38:46 HOST: sverige "if we don't find alternatives to this corrupt "two" party system our Representative Republic will die and be replaced with what we are rapidly descending into with nary a check or balance: a fascist corporate wasteland." You know, this could have been said in America 100 years ago. They were right back then. Today it's too late. The Representative Republic of the United States does not exist today; or since year 2000, maybe earlier. Lil'George isn't the cause. It's the symptom. It's the definitive marker, the sure signal that the representative republic has been ruined. Now I don't know yet if science can fix politics, or people. Religion can't fix politics. Hell, it's been the source of more egregious history than the solution. But religion can fix people to fix politics. It's just a simple matter of morality and compassion exercised with common sense. <911TRUTH.29-May-07>[ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. cindy sheehan leaves office DATE: 29-May-07 13:38:46 HOST: sverige "if we don't find alternatives to this corrupt "two" party system our Representative Republic will die and be replaced with what we are rapidly descending into with nary a check or balance: a fascist corporate wasteland." You know, this could have been said in America 100 years ago. They were right back then. Today it's too late. The Representative Republic of the United States does not exist today; or since year 2000, maybe earlier. Lil'George isn't the cause. It's the symptom. It's the definitive marker, the sure signal that the representative republic has been ruined. Now I don't know yet if science can fix politics, or people. Religion can't fix politics. Hell, it's been the source of more egregious history than the solution. But religion can fix people to fix politics. It's just a simple matter of morality and compassion exercised with common sense. ....TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. something just goes on and on... DATE: 04-May-07 14:45:49 HOST: sverige Descriptions of these events can also serve to educate the readership about pitfalls into which they may stumble and the consequent detriment to the community. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. something just goes on and on... DATE: 04-May-07 14:45:49 HOST: sverige Descriptions of these events can also serve to educate the readership about pitfalls into which they may stumble and the consequent detriment to the community. ..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Harmless pain DATE: 04-Sep-07 20:53:19 HOST: sverige I recently visited a dermatologist who used an electrical device to remove some pre-moles, "skin-tags", etc. Each "burning" was exceedingly painful, but brief. Maybe a dozen in a ten-minute period. I think that the pain caused the body to release some chemical which resulted in a kind of jubliant ecstasy for several hours and a kind of delight for several days which was quite positive and more than marginally addictive. Yeah, it hurt more than anything for a brief bit, repeatedly (5 sec. burn; 3 sec. pause cycle ... until I required a 2 minute pause to wipe my eyes and release muscle tension); then again. ..... the overall experience was rewarding; I highly recommend it; and think of returning, though there's really nothing more to burn off. I note however that the dear old lady practitioner was as "wound up" as they come, and admitted to treating herself regularly (weekly or monthly) just to stay atop of the dark spots on the top of her hands. avo --- [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Harmless pain DATE: 04-Sep-07 20:53:19 HOST: sverige I recently visited a dermatologist who used an electrical device to remove some pre-moles, "skin-tags", etc. Each "burning" was exceedingly painful, but brief. Maybe a dozen in a ten-minute period. I think that the pain caused the body to release some chemical which resulted in a kind of jubliant ecstasy for several hours and a kind of delight for several days which was quite positive and more than marginally addictive. Yeah, it hurt more than anything for a brief bit, repeatedly (5 sec. burn; 3 sec. pause cycle ... until I required a 2 minute pause to wipe my eyes and release muscle tension); then again. ..... the overall experience was rewarding; I highly recommend it; and think of returning, though there's really nothing more to burn off. I note however that the dear old lady practitioner was as "wound up" as they come, and admitted to treating herself regularly (weekly or monthly) just to stay atop of the dark spots on the top of her hands. avo --- TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Harmless pain DATE: 05-Sep-07 01:19:20 HOST: sverige Barnacle: In the 60s folks didn't cut or mutilate themselves, striking out in frustration with/at their emotional being. In the 60s folks sat down in a public space, poured a few gallons of gasoline on themselves and lit it. Neither of these actions really seem to seek physical pain the way bunjee jumpers and thrill seakers, even aerobic athletes, beer drinkers, and pot smokers, are addicted to "the rush" of whatever it is. It would be terribly awful to have demons inside of your mind. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Harmless pain DATE: 05-Sep-07 01:19:20 HOST: sverige Barnacle: In the 60s folks didn't cut or mutilate themselves, striking out in frustration with/at their emotional being. In the 60s folks sat down in a public space, poured a few gallons of gasoline on themselves and lit it. Neither of these actions really seem to seek physical pain the way bunjee jumpers and thrill seakers, even aerobic athletes, beer drinkers, and pot smokers, are addicted to "the rush" of whatever it is. It would be terribly awful to have demons inside of your mind. ...TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Your entrance music? DATE: 11-Dec-06 19:26:43 HOST: sverige "Layla" [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Your entrance music? DATE: 11-Dec-06 19:26:43 HOST: sverige "Layla" ...TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. bs27975 DATE: 12-Jun-07 02:29:16 HOST: sverige cor, I don't see an "rtfm" condition here; the manual in this case is SDF documentation, which this guy is reading over and over again without missing anything aparently. I think the questions are totally legit. Most of them aren't in the existing documentation because either nobody cared before, and/or the answers aren't static. My personal objection, and others' are different, is only the combination of the delivery rate of these questions, and the tone which I perceived in them ... When I edit text, I replace "please fix your FAQ" with "I couldn't find this information in your FAQ or in ... or ... or .... Is there a source for this which I am missing?" But I've been involved in electronic communications plenty enough to know that tone is terribly hard to transmit in a series of serial bits. I'd have likely let the tone go if its rate hadn't been "off the charts". Really, or not, even barny isn't [quite] this manic :) and look how long its taken "us" [tinu] to accomodate/appreciate *him* SDF in my experience has never been a "closed society" rejecting or threatening newcomers. It does consist of members who want to be/feel a part of "the gang", and their/our words may likely reflect our appreciation of the current community without intending that it be closed or exclusive. One nice thing about this experience is a fresh idea to request an Ignore feature in BBOARD. I think its also notable the quantity of users willing to state positions without taking responsibility for them. I have NOT been an 'anonymous' poster to this, or hardly any other, thread or board here. But don't get me started on social responsibility or accountability this month, OK? avo --- If we all stop voting, will they go away? [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. bs27975 DATE: 12-Jun-07 02:29:16 HOST: sverige cor, I don't see an "rtfm" condition here; the manual in this case is SDF documentation, which this guy is reading over and over again without missing anything aparently. I think the questions are totally legit. Most of them aren't in the existing documentation because either nobody cared before, and/or the answers aren't static. My personal objection, and others' are different, is only the combination of the delivery rate of these questions, and the tone which I perceived in them ... When I edit text, I replace "please fix your FAQ" with "I couldn't find this information in your FAQ or in ... or ... or .... Is there a source for this which I am missing?" But I've been involved in electronic communications plenty enough to know that tone is terribly hard to transmit in a series of serial bits. I'd have likely let the tone go if its rate hadn't been "off the charts". Really, or not, even barny isn't [quite] this manic :) and look how long its taken "us" [tinu] to accomodate/appreciate *him* SDF in my experience has never been a "closed society" rejecting or threatening newcomers. It does consist of members who want to be/feel a part of "the gang", and their/our words may likely reflect our appreciation of the current community without intending that it be closed or exclusive. One nice thing about this experience is a fresh idea to request an Ignore feature in BBOARD. I think its also notable the quantity of users willing to state positions without taking responsibility for them. I have NOT been an 'anonymous' poster to this, or hardly any other, thread or board here. But don't get me started on social responsibility or accountability this month, OK? avo --- If we all stop voting, will they go away? TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. bs27975 DATE: 13-Jun-07 04:52:01 HOST: sverige from VPM: "'manic', I liked that, I guess it was accurate," yeah and my comments on this were not a rant my comments on politics and economics are rants :) (maybe) one day they'll be history :) Peace. Chill. Sit in the shade, have a beer, and listen to the wind blow, the leaves rustle, and the birds tweet. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. bs27975 DATE: 13-Jun-07 04:52:01 HOST: sverige from VPM: "'manic', I liked that, I guess it was accurate," yeah and my comments on this were not a rant my comments on politics and economics are rants :) (maybe) one day they'll be history :) Peace. Chill. Sit in the shade, have a beer, and listen to the wind blow, the leaves rustle, and the birds tweet. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. bs27975 DATE: 13-Jun-07 05:00:57 HOST: sverige Well posted, console!! and he doesn't even come here to waste everybody's time making anonymous posts about pissing Thank you both. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. bs27975 DATE: 13-Jun-07 05:00:57 HOST: sverige Well posted, console!! and he doesn't even come here to waste everybody's time making anonymous posts about pissing Thank you both. ......TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. depression DATE: 15-Dec-06 16:51:13 HOST: sverige I'm very sorry for your loss. You *should* feel angry; and you will always feel sad about this tragic and senseless loss. Please don't blow yourself up; and please don't join or believe the Bushit that you deserved this because you "hate freedom". There is a diety, by any name, who loves you in your grief, and who gives you the love with which you grieve, and assures you that this aberrant event is not "the plan" for your generation. Somebody has to grow up to evolve the human civilization from selfish insensitivity into more love and understanding. You are in a strong position to do this; and your father is with you (within you) forever, helping. - avo [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. depression DATE: 15-Dec-06 16:51:13 HOST: sverige I'm very sorry for your loss. You *should* feel angry; and you will always feel sad about this tragic and senseless loss. Please don't blow yourself up; and please don't join or believe the Bushit that you deserved this because you "hate freedom". There is a diety, by any name, who loves you in your grief, and who gives you the love with which you grieve, and assures you that this aberrant event is not "the plan" for your generation. Somebody has to grow up to evolve the human civilization from selfish insensitivity into more love and understanding. You are in a strong position to do this; and your father is with you (within you) forever, helping. - avo TACKER: Anonymous (Anonymous) SUBJECT: .. depression DATE: 16-Dec-06 00:22:26 Um actually if you look where it says "Poster" the first was by Anonymous, the second by avoyager and the third by Anonymous. Sorry to disappoint. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: Anonymous (Anonymous) SUBJECT: .. depression DATE: 16-Dec-06 00:22:26 Um actually if you look where it says "Poster" the first was by Anonymous, the second by avoyager and the third by Anonymous. Sorry to disappoint. .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. lucid dreams DATE: 16-Nov-06 02:37:15 HOST: sverige "- Flew like Superman (I just kinda swim through the air)" Yeah. I've done both. The water was nice, but slow, and required more energy; gliding on favorable breezes is much much different in a very positive way, and certainly covers more territory and viewpoint. It's the best way to arrive at and depart from outdoor social gatherings. Keep at it. You're doing great! [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. lucid dreams DATE: 16-Nov-06 02:37:15 HOST: sverige "- Flew like Superman (I just kinda swim through the air)" Yeah. I've done both. The water was nice, but slow, and required more energy; gliding on favorable breezes is much much different in a very positive way, and certainly covers more territory and viewpoint. It's the best way to arrive at and depart from outdoor social gatherings. Keep at it. You're doing great! .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. convertion to catholicism DATE: 16-Oct-07 16:45:19 HOST: sverige Greetings to the original poster. Relatedly, and notably, I think, I came across this annotation recently in the Scofield Reference Edition of the Bible, referencing Ishamel : "Ishmael, the child of Sarai's and Abram's lapse into unbelief, was the progenitor of the Arabs, the traditional enemies of the Jewish people. Moreover Mohammed, the founder of Islam, whose adherents form Christianity's most difficult missionary problem, came from the line of Ishmael. Islam is the world religion which is, perhaps, closest to Christianity; thus it is the hardest to penetrate with the Gospel of Christ." These words are chock full of bias and bigotry. "lapse into unbelief", "traditional enemies". And of course the blatant "most difficult missionary problem ... hardest to penetrate with the Gospel" I cannot recommend such a religion or religious faith to anybody, frankly. I can, and do, recommend examining yourself and your spirituality through an exposure to Bahai, Buddhism, and Swedenborg ("New Church"). The latter is what I call "post-protestant" having parted/evolved from the protestants as they did from the catholics as they did from the jews as they did from the polytheisms of their day. While Swedenborgians most certainly do believe in God, and Christ, as One; they do not insist that you do so likewise. Their position, which I believe is also true of Buddhists, Bahai, and a great many other named and unnamed theologies, is that of the Golden Rule: "Love one another as I have loved you." "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." "Treat all others as you would like to be treated by them." or like an old Sci-Fi channel ad stated during a very brief run, "What if anybody who wanted to could have sex with you?" As you seem to be aware, and others (including posters to this thread) are not, natural sight and understanding is very limited. With spiritual sight and understanding, many things can be known and appreciated which the natural person regards only as "bullshit" and "a crutch for the weak" because they do not, and will not, let themselves see or move beyond themselves. Perhaps their impediment includes all the vast damage done by those who abuse things of religion and faith for selfish or ideologic purposes; specifically those who blaspheme the Word of God by treating it as if it were a fieldbook of natural history, or a complete history of the universe, or a prophecy promulgated in the limted language and understanding of their tiny little cultural sphere. It's the same problem with the atheists who live in their own tiny little bubbles, and for centuries denied that gravity, or a solar system, or magnetism, or an immune system, or a soul, or a will, exist just because they couldn't see it, and because they regard themselves as all-knowing and all-important. There is much to explore beyond our limited experiences. Enjoy it with earnest humility, and an honest integrity, that you not be deceived. avo --- [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. convertion to catholicism DATE: 16-Oct-07 16:45:19 HOST: sverige Greetings to the original poster. Relatedly, and notably, I think, I came across this annotation recently in the Scofield Reference Edition of the Bible, referencing Ishamel : "Ishmael, the child of Sarai's and Abram's lapse into unbelief, was the progenitor of the Arabs, the traditional enemies of the Jewish people. Moreover Mohammed, the founder of Islam, whose adherents form Christianity's most difficult missionary problem, came from the line of Ishmael. Islam is the world religion which is, perhaps, closest to Christianity; thus it is the hardest to penetrate with the Gospel of Christ." These words are chock full of bias and bigotry. "lapse into unbelief", "traditional enemies". And of course the blatant "most difficult missionary problem ... hardest to penetrate with the Gospel" I cannot recommend such a religion or religious faith to anybody, frankly. I can, and do, recommend examining yourself and your spirituality through an exposure to Bahai, Buddhism, and Swedenborg ("New Church"). The latter is what I call "post-protestant" having parted/evolved from the protestants as they did from the catholics as they did from the jews as they did from the polytheisms of their day. While Swedenborgians most certainly do believe in God, and Christ, as One; they do not insist that you do so likewise. Their position, which I believe is also true of Buddhists, Bahai, and a great many other named and unnamed theologies, is that of the Golden Rule: "Love one another as I have loved you." "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." "Treat all others as you would like to be treated by them." or like an old Sci-Fi channel ad stated during a very brief run, "What if anybody who wanted to could have sex with you?" As you seem to be aware, and others (including posters to this thread) are not, natural sight and understanding is very limited. With spiritual sight and understanding, many things can be known and appreciated which the natural person regards only as "bullshit" and "a crutch for the weak" because they do not, and will not, let themselves see or move beyond themselves. Perhaps their impediment includes all the vast damage done by those who abuse things of religion and faith for selfish or ideologic purposes; specifically those who blaspheme the Word of God by treating it as if it were a fieldbook of natural history, or a complete history of the universe, or a prophecy promulgated in the limted language and understanding of their tiny little cultural sphere. It's the same problem with the atheists who live in their own tiny little bubbles, and for centuries denied that gravity, or a solar system, or magnetism, or an immune system, or a soul, or a will, exist just because they couldn't see it, and because they regard themselves as all-knowing and all-important. There is much to explore beyond our limited experiences. Enjoy it with earnest humility, and an honest integrity, that you not be deceived. avo --- TACKER: Anonymous (Anonymous) SUBJECT: .. convertion to catholicism DATE: 16-Oct-07 23:01:54 OP, it sounds like you could have an interesting time reading up on different religions and meeting people of different faiths. While no one is free of past baggage, you seem to be in a questioning state of mind, which is good! Why not start by asking people who come from different faiths about some books that can introduce you to their beliefs? Maybe avoyager could recommend some books about Buddhism, Bahai and Swedwnborg. As a Christian, I recommend _Mere Christianity_ by CS Lewis because I think it is popular with both Protestants and Catholics (also because I'm a huge Lewis fan). I've heard a lot of atheists admire Dawkins, so maybe he would be a good one to read about. I have only just begun one of his books so my recommendation can't be trusted on that. Besides I'm an evangelical Christian so you'd never trust my opinion! ;-) I am curious as to why you would want something as important as religion to be a way of fitting a kind of racial stereotype you want to adopt. More and more people are breaking out of these things. I think your bi-racial background is cool! [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: Anonymous (Anonymous) SUBJECT: .. convertion to catholicism DATE: 16-Oct-07 23:01:54 OP, it sounds like you could have an interesting time reading up on different religions and meeting people of different faiths. While no one is free of past baggage, you seem to be in a questioning state of mind, which is good! Why not start by asking people who come from different faiths about some books that can introduce you to their beliefs? Maybe avoyager could recommend some books about Buddhism, Bahai and Swedwnborg. As a Christian, I recommend _Mere Christianity_ by CS Lewis because I think it is popular with both Protestants and Catholics (also because I'm a huge Lewis fan). I've heard a lot of atheists admire Dawkins, so maybe he would be a good one to read about. I have only just begun one of his books so my recommendation can't be trusted on that. Besides I'm an evangelical Christian so you'd never trust my opinion! ;-) I am curious as to why you would want something as important as religion to be a way of fitting a kind of racial stereotype you want to adopt. More and more people are breaking out of these things. I think your bi-racial background is cool! ..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. cheaters DATE: 20-Jul-07 03:28:07 HOST: sverige kudos davek! for getting it right, explaining it, and for being in com to help make it happen. with respect, avo --- If we all stop voting, will they go away? [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. cheaters DATE: 20-Jul-07 03:28:07 HOST: sverige kudos davek! for getting it right, explaining it, and for being in com to help make it happen. with respect, avo --- If we all stop voting, will they go away? TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. cheaters DATE: 20-Jul-07 20:05:47 HOST: sverige I recall having no difficulty compiling irssi here, as a novice experimenter; noting that it was not possible to engage the scripting features. Believe it or not, some folks have preferences for things like irssi over bitchx. hth. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. cheaters DATE: 20-Jul-07 20:05:47 HOST: sverige I recall having no difficulty compiling irssi here, as a novice experimenter; noting that it was not possible to engage the scripting features. Believe it or not, some folks have preferences for things like irssi over bitchx. hth. .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. now more alpha males DATE: 24-Jun-07 23:34:55 HOST: sverige "Natural variation is a _good_ thing; don't try to squash it out." What you describe as "variation" is actually "mutation" and it is the single most excellent thing which permits life of any form to continue at all, as well as provide mammals and hominids the framework with which to continue developing and surviving in almost whichever environment arises. Some work out favorably, others don't, and some are just plain mistakes which are part of the package. In fact, quite a large percentage of human fertilized eggs self-terminate before the mother host can confirm a pregnancy, as part of this reality. It seems reasonable to me that some homosexuals are born into that propensity, others are free to make that choice willfully. We're all mutants; it's part of the definition. As you say, celebrate that. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. now more alpha males DATE: 24-Jun-07 23:34:55 HOST: sverige "Natural variation is a _good_ thing; don't try to squash it out." What you describe as "variation" is actually "mutation" and it is the single most excellent thing which permits life of any form to continue at all, as well as provide mammals and hominids the framework with which to continue developing and surviving in almost whichever environment arises. Some work out favorably, others don't, and some are just plain mistakes which are part of the package. In fact, quite a large percentage of human fertilized eggs self-terminate before the mother host can confirm a pregnancy, as part of this reality. It seems reasonable to me that some homosexuals are born into that propensity, others are free to make that choice willfully. We're all mutants; it's part of the definition. As you say, celebrate that. ..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. sdf user forum? WTF?? DATE: 23-Sep-07 17:23:48 HOST: sverige "SDF takes all kinds" Not just SDF, but human life itself; indeed ALL life on this planet is wholly dependent upon and consequent to (of?) random mutation and its associated variety. Conformity is of course contrary to this natural order. There, now you know :) avo [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. sdf user forum? WTF?? DATE: 23-Sep-07 17:23:48 HOST: sverige "SDF takes all kinds" Not just SDF, but human life itself; indeed ALL life on this planet is wholly dependent upon and consequent to (of?) random mutation and its associated variety. Conformity is of course contrary to this natural order. There, now you know :) avo ..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. how to be happy DATE: 26-Jan-07 02:43:05 HOST: sverige Volunteering brings happiness with complete independence of other people's sorrows. Being of service to others, and feeling the brotherhood and goodwill are the [sole] source of joy and inner peace. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. how to be happy DATE: 26-Jan-07 02:43:05 HOST: sverige Volunteering brings happiness with complete independence of other people's sorrows. Being of service to others, and feeling the brotherhood and goodwill are the [sole] source of joy and inner peace. ....TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Drug testing for pre-employment DATE: 03-Mar-07 14:15:52 HOST: sverige It's the long arm of The_Police_State. working to get more capitalists to believe in it's Goodness and Need [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Drug testing for pre-employment DATE: 03-Mar-07 14:15:52 HOST: sverige It's the long arm of The_Police_State. working to get more capitalists to believe in it's Goodness and Need TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Drug testing for pre-employment DATE: 05-Mar-07 04:10:43 HOST: sverige "It's the voting public's fault," uh.huh. "because they're the ones that put corrupt individuals in positions of power in the first place." Only in theory. If you were paying attention in the US recently, you'd have noticed that it was the Supreme Court, and corrupted voting/counting processes, not the public, which put the current dim bulb into the hot seat. And that no more than 25% of eligible US voters did vote for him in the first place; and they are themselves victims of the great propaganda. And as general rule, with notable exceptions, you pretty much have to be corrupt in order to get onto tbe ballot in the first place; and if you beat those odds, and come in as Mister Smith you're going to be corrupted before you blow the whistle on the whole criminal operation, again with a serious minority of notable exceptions. So, enjoy your self-satisfaction in public responsibility as you proudly and gleefully select either Condi or Hilary next year. etc. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Drug testing for pre-employment DATE: 05-Mar-07 04:10:43 HOST: sverige "It's the voting public's fault," uh.huh. "because they're the ones that put corrupt individuals in positions of power in the first place." Only in theory. If you were paying attention in the US recently, you'd have noticed that it was the Supreme Court, and corrupted voting/counting processes, not the public, which put the current dim bulb into the hot seat. And that no more than 25% of eligible US voters did vote for him in the first place; and they are themselves victims of the great propaganda. And as general rule, with notable exceptions, you pretty much have to be corrupt in order to get onto tbe ballot in the first place; and if you beat those odds, and come in as Mister Smith you're going to be corrupted before you blow the whistle on the whole criminal operation, again with a serious minority of notable exceptions. So, enjoy your self-satisfaction in public responsibility as you proudly and gleefully select either Condi or Hilary next year. etc. .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Drug testing for pre-employment DATE: 28-Feb-07 20:56:37 HOST: sverige I put forward that bigotry and gender-bias, for instance, and several other behavior traits, are equally, and frequently more, harmful than substance use. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Drug testing for pre-employment DATE: 28-Feb-07 20:56:37 HOST: sverige I put forward that bigotry and gender-bias, for instance, and several other behavior traits, are equally, and frequently more, harmful than substance use. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Drug testing for pre-employment DATE: 28-Feb-07 21:05:35 HOST: sverige "No illegal drug can be used responsibly." <<-- ???? I don't think this is sufficiently true. Can you run a traffic signal responsibly? Can you skate responsibly on the pond when the sign says "forbidden"? Can you stay out after curfew responsibly? The answer to all of these is "no" ONLY in the case where you define "responsibly" as unquestioned obedience and conformity. What I see happening all too often is people expecting, even demanding, that all others obey and conform to their values and policies; and rejecting opposition, diversity, even imagination. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Drug testing for pre-employment DATE: 28-Feb-07 21:05:35 HOST: sverige "No illegal drug can be used responsibly." <<-- ???? I don't think this is sufficiently true. Can you run a traffic signal responsibly? Can you skate responsibly on the pond when the sign says "forbidden"? Can you stay out after curfew responsibly? The answer to all of these is "no" ONLY in the case where you define "responsibly" as unquestioned obedience and conformity. What I see happening all too often is people expecting, even demanding, that all others obey and conform to their values and policies; and rejecting opposition, diversity, even imagination. ..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. com vs. bboard DATE: 01-May-07 17:05:29 HOST: sverige The poll may be (have been) running concurrently on commode and just scrolled off :) [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. com vs. bboard DATE: 01-May-07 17:05:29 HOST: sverige The poll may be (have been) running concurrently on commode and just scrolled off :) .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. What happens when you die? DATE: 30-Oct-06 04:08:07 HOST: sverige Life on earth is a physical, natural, experience, stuck in time and space. There is a spiritual life which is not bound by time and space, or by natural or physical constraints. Most of this know this in a number of different ways, through dreaming, through love, through imagination, for instance. Our spiritual self is our ultimate essence (formed by the decisions we make, which identify what it is that we truly love). Our natural bodies are just a covering. Sometimes our outward personna is a mask. Sometimes our behaviors are a pretense. What we call "death" is the death of those natural, physical, and superficial components. Our spirit ("ruling loves"? soul?) is not physically bound within time and space. It survives, without the ailments of its former physical trappings, and without pretense. -- since you asked [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. What happens when you die? DATE: 30-Oct-06 04:08:07 HOST: sverige Life on earth is a physical, natural, experience, stuck in time and space. There is a spiritual life which is not bound by time and space, or by natural or physical constraints. Most of this know this in a number of different ways, through dreaming, through love, through imagination, for instance. Our spiritual self is our ultimate essence (formed by the decisions we make, which identify what it is that we truly love). Our natural bodies are just a covering. Sometimes our outward personna is a mask. Sometimes our behaviors are a pretense. What we call "death" is the death of those natural, physical, and superficial components. Our spirit ("ruling loves"? soul?) is not physically bound within time and space. It survives, without the ailments of its former physical trappings, and without pretense. -- since you asked TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. What happens when you die? DATE: 30-Oct-06 21:32:06 HOST: sverige In response, belief is not required. Neither is understanding, faith, or association with a religious order or any denomination. It's just sort of the way it is. Our "state" at and after death is what we've made of it while here, consciously or not, by the decisions which we make. I don't see anything mysterious or magical or unreasonable about that. Do you? [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. What happens when you die? DATE: 30-Oct-06 21:32:06 HOST: sverige In response, belief is not required. Neither is understanding, faith, or association with a religious order or any denomination. It's just sort of the way it is. Our "state" at and after death is what we've made of it while here, consciously or not, by the decisions which we make. I don't see anything mysterious or magical or unreasonable about that. Do you? TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. What happens when you die? DATE: 30-Oct-06 21:39:38 HOST: sverige > There is a spiritual life which is not bound by time and space, Assumption > or by natural or physical constraints. Assumption NOT assumption. Sorry you've missed out on it so far. Hopefully you'll awaken to it sooner or later. But I can't help with that; other than to assure you that it's there by my experience whether you've found it or not. Like lots of things really. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. What happens when you die? DATE: 30-Oct-06 21:39:38 HOST: sverige > There is a spiritual life which is not bound by time and space, Assumption > or by natural or physical constraints. Assumption NOT assumption. Sorry you've missed out on it so far. Hopefully you'll awaken to it sooner or later. But I can't help with that; other than to assure you that it's there by my experience whether you've found it or not. Like lots of things really. ...TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. proxy DATE: 02-Mar-07 04:02:54 HOST: sverige To clarify on Mike's suggestion, SSH forwarding provides a SOCKS proxy via its builtin Dynamic port forwarding, so you don't need a dedicated HTTP proxy. Furthermore, by becoming MetaARPA, you're well positioned to use the forthcoming VPN option for the same purpose. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. proxy DATE: 02-Mar-07 04:02:54 HOST: sverige To clarify on Mike's suggestion, SSH forwarding provides a SOCKS proxy via its builtin Dynamic port forwarding, so you don't need a dedicated HTTP proxy. Furthermore, by becoming MetaARPA, you're well positioned to use the forthcoming VPN option for the same purpose. ..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. SVN vs CVS DATE: 08-Aug-07 13:40:06 HOST: otaku yargo cited the subversion FAQ: "> If you want to host a networked repository, then you need to set up either Apache2 or an "svnserve" server. and I focus on "a networked repository" .... Without checking, I'd take this to refer to something all users, from any remote locations, see as a single portal to a repository which is, behind the portal, scattered around multiple remote networked locations, perhaps with intentional redundancies. And that a repsitory which was in one static location could service multiple remote clients without a server. I also anticipate setting up SVN after vacation next week. avo --- [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. SVN vs CVS DATE: 08-Aug-07 13:40:06 HOST: otaku yargo cited the subversion FAQ: "> If you want to host a networked repository, then you need to set up either Apache2 or an "svnserve" server. and I focus on "a networked repository" .... Without checking, I'd take this to refer to something all users, from any remote locations, see as a single portal to a repository which is, behind the portal, scattered around multiple remote networked locations, perhaps with intentional redundancies. And that a repsitory which was in one static location could service multiple remote clients without a server. I also anticipate setting up SVN after vacation next week. avo --- .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. ssh tunnel question for MetaARPA DATE: 12-Mar-07 03:31:45 HOST: sverige Marshall, Your depiction is technically possible. However, with regard to using SDF for this purpose, you'll note the need to open a listening port on the SDF host (which would be tunnelled back to your home system where you might have say sshd listening and prepared to authenticate. It's this need for a listening port which indicates that a "server" membership level at SDF would be appropriate for this application. It might be possible to restrict that "listening port" to SDF's localhost interface; so it wouldn't really be public, but it would be accessible to anyone else on that SDF host. There is some prior discussion of this in the bboard archives. The forthcoming VPN facility may work for you also, by providing a route to your home system via a VPN connection established from home. In this case, and the case of a Remote port forward via SSH which listens only on SDF localhost, you'd access your home system from your SDF login. There is one authority empowered to negotiate this with you, and it ain't me ;-} [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. ssh tunnel question for MetaARPA DATE: 12-Mar-07 03:31:45 HOST: sverige Marshall, Your depiction is technically possible. However, with regard to using SDF for this purpose, you'll note the need to open a listening port on the SDF host (which would be tunnelled back to your home system where you might have say sshd listening and prepared to authenticate. It's this need for a listening port which indicates that a "server" membership level at SDF would be appropriate for this application. It might be possible to restrict that "listening port" to SDF's localhost interface; so it wouldn't really be public, but it would be accessible to anyone else on that SDF host. There is some prior discussion of this in the bboard archives. The forthcoming VPN facility may work for you also, by providing a route to your home system via a VPN connection established from home. In this case, and the case of a Remote port forward via SSH which listens only on SDF localhost, you'd access your home system from your SDF login. There is one authority empowered to negotiate this with you, and it ain't me ;-} .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Abuse by the user 'barneye' DATE: 12-Apr-07 13:00:22 HOST: sverige Setting up a new process, and not checking on it, is a mistake; a punishable mistake when that mistake has a negative impact upon SDF or its users. I can't imagine anybody disputing that, regardless of how innocent or malicious the mistake. If the mistake was implemented in such a way as to put SDF in a position of abusing other sites, termination should be immediate. If damage was localized and not severe, a warning would be appropriate. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Abuse by the user 'barneye' DATE: 12-Apr-07 13:00:22 HOST: sverige Setting up a new process, and not checking on it, is a mistake; a punishable mistake when that mistake has a negative impact upon SDF or its users. I can't imagine anybody disputing that, regardless of how innocent or malicious the mistake. If the mistake was implemented in such a way as to put SDF in a position of abusing other sites, termination should be immediate. If damage was localized and not severe, a warning would be appropriate. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Abuse by the user 'barneye' DATE: 13-Apr-07 13:09:30 HOST: sverige But is he really a he, or really 30, or really a computer sci grad, or really a lawyer? Aren't these just unsubstantiated claims from a person who has quite recently demonstrated a lack of trust worthiness? [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Abuse by the user 'barneye' DATE: 13-Apr-07 13:09:30 HOST: sverige But is he really a he, or really 30, or really a computer sci grad, or really a lawyer? Aren't these just unsubstantiated claims from a person who has quite recently demonstrated a lack of trust worthiness? ..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. MetaARPA 'referral' perks? DATE: 15-May-07 12:30:53 HOST: sverige I'm right there with what Jeff said earlier about incentive being not needed. Additionally, it "feels cheap" to me. Members should be comfortably talking about and recommending SDF quite naturally from their enthusiasm and from their wish for SDF to prosper; not for some "bonus reward". I'd be neutral on the matter, as in let others use it but I won't; but seriously I feel it cheapens the community. But then, I have never ever in my long life been representative of any majority. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. MetaARPA 'referral' perks? DATE: 15-May-07 12:30:53 HOST: sverige I'm right there with what Jeff said earlier about incentive being not needed. Additionally, it "feels cheap" to me. Members should be comfortably talking about and recommending SDF quite naturally from their enthusiasm and from their wish for SDF to prosper; not for some "bonus reward". I'd be neutral on the matter, as in let others use it but I won't; but seriously I feel it cheapens the community. But then, I have never ever in my long life been representative of any majority. .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. new thread (vpn) as requested DATE: 18-Feb-07 13:14:44 HOST: sverige Hi Mike, Are you the legendary Bears linebacker? I have a clear understanding of the use and operations of SSH and VPN from the perspective of user function and setup, and can see where one provides benefits not available in the other. And I'm pretty strong in the technical underpinnings of each, maintaining both client and server hosts for my own purposes. Two important commonalities between the two are that: -- encryption exists only between the client and SSH/VPN host, not all the way to client's remote server; -- features available to the client user are controlled by the SSH/VPN host; for instance, you can't run HTTP thru a VPN or SSH host which doesn't provide a proxy for continuing the connection. You can SSH thru a proxyless SSH server to a remote proxy, but there is no encryption on that second leg. VPN allows access to only those services which are made available on the VPN host interface. As to the technical details of a VPN client, I understand that a virtual (NIC) device is required, which is integrated in the standard way as an interface (ifconfig) with a local (RFC 1918) IP; and that optionally, any standard IP routing can be set up to use that interface. This is quite the same thing as happens with dial-up and dsl/cable pppoe connection setup. The part which I do not understand, is how the VPN client software establishes the connection from the new virtual interface, across the existing internet connection, to the authenticating VPN server. For this I rely upon tools and documentation available for that specific piece of third-party software; and I depend upon that softare working properly with the constraints available to it from the OS. Getting clients and servers to function together usefully was very straight forward with SSH and with OpenVPN, and both are working like a charm. This has not been my experience with pptp/meep and while I keep working at it the reasonable question persists, "Why would I choose this over OpenVPN/TLS, even if I can get it working?" [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. new thread (vpn) as requested DATE: 18-Feb-07 13:14:44 HOST: sverige Hi Mike, Are you the legendary Bears linebacker? I have a clear understanding of the use and operations of SSH and VPN from the perspective of user function and setup, and can see where one provides benefits not available in the other. And I'm pretty strong in the technical underpinnings of each, maintaining both client and server hosts for my own purposes. Two important commonalities between the two are that: -- encryption exists only between the client and SSH/VPN host, not all the way to client's remote server; -- features available to the client user are controlled by the SSH/VPN host; for instance, you can't run HTTP thru a VPN or SSH host which doesn't provide a proxy for continuing the connection. You can SSH thru a proxyless SSH server to a remote proxy, but there is no encryption on that second leg. VPN allows access to only those services which are made available on the VPN host interface. As to the technical details of a VPN client, I understand that a virtual (NIC) device is required, which is integrated in the standard way as an interface (ifconfig) with a local (RFC 1918) IP; and that optionally, any standard IP routing can be set up to use that interface. This is quite the same thing as happens with dial-up and dsl/cable pppoe connection setup. The part which I do not understand, is how the VPN client software establishes the connection from the new virtual interface, across the existing internet connection, to the authenticating VPN server. For this I rely upon tools and documentation available for that specific piece of third-party software; and I depend upon that softare working properly with the constraints available to it from the OS. Getting clients and servers to function together usefully was very straight forward with SSH and with OpenVPN, and both are working like a charm. This has not been my experience with pptp/meep and while I keep working at it the reasonable question persists, "Why would I choose this over OpenVPN/TLS, even if I can get it working?" .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. FTP access for validated members DATE: 19-Nov-06 18:54:30 HOST: sverige "I believe that bad things can also be done using e-mail for upload and http for download, if somebody tries to infect other machines;" I agree. "so I do not currently see a security advantage in excluding 'users' from FTP" There's something of a security advantage in NOT trasmitting login:pass in cleartext from who-knows-where. Email to the 'user' group may have size limitation which reduces that overload potential, and threat ?? [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. FTP access for validated members DATE: 19-Nov-06 18:54:30 HOST: sverige "I believe that bad things can also be done using e-mail for upload and http for download, if somebody tries to infect other machines;" I agree. "so I do not currently see a security advantage in excluding 'users' from FTP" There's something of a security advantage in NOT trasmitting login:pass in cleartext from who-knows-where. Email to the 'user' group may have size limitation which reduces that overload potential, and threat ?? ..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Two things are clear DATE: 22-Oct-06 03:31:12 HOST: sverige we all are [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Two things are clear DATE: 22-Oct-06 03:31:12 HOST: sverige we all are .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Mail Spool Disappeared DATE: 22-Mar-07 01:16:29 HOST: sverige just double checking, ...... if the "disappearance" was from /var/mail/ it might be found in $HOME/ .... mbox or Maildir for instance [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Mail Spool Disappeared DATE: 22-Mar-07 01:16:29 HOST: sverige just double checking, ...... if the "disappearance" was from /var/mail/ it might be found in $HOME/ .... mbox or Maildir for instance ..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. ARPA member shell preference DATE: 24-Jul-07 23:03:34 HOST: sverige Let's look at this statement more closely. "The Korn Shell rules. Is that because it's a great shell, or just because it's the default?" This is SDF, where smj rules. Where smj rules, and selects the default shell, wouldn't it be a great one? So, ... Because it is a great shell, the [smj] ruler assigned it as the default. Note that some disagree :) Peace, avo --- [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. ARPA member shell preference DATE: 24-Jul-07 23:03:34 HOST: sverige Let's look at this statement more closely. "The Korn Shell rules. Is that because it's a great shell, or just because it's the default?" This is SDF, where smj rules. Where smj rules, and selects the default shell, wouldn't it be a great one? So, ... Because it is a great shell, the [smj] ruler assigned it as the default. Note that some disagree :) Peace, avo --- ..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Voting Theory DATE: 01-Mar-07 04:14:25 HOST: sverige I'm delighted to see another Condorcet advocate. Here's a couple relevant links I've been holding ... http://www.genarts.com/karl/second-choice-voting.html http://www.electionmethods.org/ The second originally contained a great discussion on different methods, and their comparative strengths and weaknesses, and I think at some point, and perhaps even currently, a working example using a prototype of the current interface. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Voting Theory DATE: 01-Mar-07 04:14:25 HOST: sverige I'm delighted to see another Condorcet advocate. Here's a couple relevant links I've been holding ... http://www.genarts.com/karl/second-choice-voting.html http://www.electionmethods.org/ The second originally contained a great discussion on different methods, and their comparative strengths and weaknesses, and I think at some point, and perhaps even currently, a working example using a prototype of the current interface. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. The night sky DATE: 03-Nov-07 18:37:47 HOST: sverige some resources ... Astronomy: [79]daily .. [80]weekly [[81]alt] .. [82]monthly calendars; .. [83]PDF Maps .. [84]StarDate ; 79. http://www.earthsky.com/Features/Skywatching/ 80. http://skyandtelescope.com/observing/ataglance/ 81. http://www.usno.navy.mil/pao/sky/sky_week.shtml 82. http://www.pa.msu.edu/abrams/SkyWatchersDiary/Diary.html 83. http://skymaps.com/downloads.html 84. http://stardate.utexas.edu/ [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. The night sky DATE: 03-Nov-07 18:37:47 HOST: sverige some resources ... Astronomy: [79]daily .. [80]weekly [[81]alt] .. [82]monthly calendars; .. [83]PDF Maps .. [84]StarDate ; 79. http://www.earthsky.com/Features/Skywatching/ 80. http://skyandtelescope.com/observing/ataglance/ 81. http://www.usno.navy.mil/pao/sky/sky_week.shtml 82. http://www.pa.msu.edu/abrams/SkyWatchersDiary/Diary.html 83. http://skymaps.com/downloads.html 84. http://stardate.utexas.edu/ ..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. "Rationalists" DATE: 03-Nov-06 14:15:19 HOST: sverige Stephen, You may have too few generalized categories there :) In particular, I'd urge you to realize that much if not most of what goes on around this planet as "spirituality" is nowhere near "extreme". It is in fact supra-peaceful and very much out of your face. The loudest group in any discussion is almost always domniated by political zealots whose only "religion" is to conform others into their personal worldview, using whichever tools and exploitations they find convenient. The so called "religious right" is the grandest conveniency for them, in part because it matches their model for hypocrisy. Claiming to believe in Jesus conveniently makes Muslims and Jews to be "evil", while anything having to do with peace, goodwill, and brotherhood is appropriated to themselves alone, NOT to be shared with others or spread across the community of any size greater than their close circle of benefactors. So, the problem I have with your categorizations is that the group labelled as Religious/Spiritual Extremists really have no spirituality or religion at all, other than self-engrandizement. Their only deity is material possession, collective power over others, and self-glorification. (as can be plainly seen) Now as it happens I have an uncle who has become immersed in the pseudo-theology of the "religious right", and as far as he can see, that group I just described can do no wrong; and to him only they, and himself an his ilk, have been somehow or another "saved" while the rest of us aren't worth a pot to spit in. He used to teach math and science; but he wouldn't let his daughters date in high school. These are the group which your pseudo-rational atheists choose to confront. And I don't know why they bother; they're just as delusioned and hypocritical and self-serving as their targets, claiming "science" as their "religion" while cherry-picking the facts and taking no account whatsoever of the errors within their observation and analyses. (as can be less plainly seen) That said, I certainly do appreciate your bringing it up. It's a good start, and I trust that someone will take this discussion to the next step. - avo [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. "Rationalists" DATE: 03-Nov-06 14:15:19 HOST: sverige Stephen, You may have too few generalized categories there :) In particular, I'd urge you to realize that much if not most of what goes on around this planet as "spirituality" is nowhere near "extreme". It is in fact supra-peaceful and very much out of your face. The loudest group in any discussion is almost always domniated by political zealots whose only "religion" is to conform others into their personal worldview, using whichever tools and exploitations they find convenient. The so called "religious right" is the grandest conveniency for them, in part because it matches their model for hypocrisy. Claiming to believe in Jesus conveniently makes Muslims and Jews to be "evil", while anything having to do with peace, goodwill, and brotherhood is appropriated to themselves alone, NOT to be shared with others or spread across the community of any size greater than their close circle of benefactors. So, the problem I have with your categorizations is that the group labelled as Religious/Spiritual Extremists really have no spirituality or religion at all, other than self-engrandizement. Their only deity is material possession, collective power over others, and self-glorification. (as can be plainly seen) Now as it happens I have an uncle who has become immersed in the pseudo-theology of the "religious right", and as far as he can see, that group I just described can do no wrong; and to him only they, and himself an his ilk, have been somehow or another "saved" while the rest of us aren't worth a pot to spit in. He used to teach math and science; but he wouldn't let his daughters date in high school. These are the group which your pseudo-rational atheists choose to confront. And I don't know why they bother; they're just as delusioned and hypocritical and self-serving as their targets, claiming "science" as their "religion" while cherry-picking the facts and taking no account whatsoever of the errors within their observation and analyses. (as can be less plainly seen) That said, I certainly do appreciate your bringing it up. It's a good start, and I trust that someone will take this discussion to the next step. - avo TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. "Rationalists" DATE: 03-Nov-06 14:44:21 HOST: sverige "Do the extremists realise that experience doesn't indicate truth?" Well now, if there is any such thing as pure truth at all, wouldn't it be experience itself? Do you accept truths which you don't experience? How can experience by anything other than truth? Even illusion is itself a truth. The fact that you saw the man swallow the flaming sword is true. The notion that the man did in fact swallow the flaming sword is a derivation, an appearance, an illusion, whatever you want to call it; but it is true that that is what you saw; and it is not appropriate for others to deny that; or for others to conclude that because it was your experience then the even was false or not truth. Heisenberg pointed that out long ago. As to whether or not this whole consideration even merits anyones efforts, it could be noted that it has done so across all civilizations across all time; and it doesn't show any likely sign of ceasing. Carl Jung went around the globe studying the human psyche. He discovered a human concept of something beyond itself everywhere. But you know, folks can get full blown phD doctorates and degrees in psychology without ever having to read anything Jung wrote. That's like a degree in U.S. history without ever knowing about the Vietnam war and Richard Nixon. The study of mythology is enjoyable and rewarding; and integral to any study of the development of civilization. Now, but not earlier, the sciences of psychology and philosophy are accepted; and it is acknowledged that as humans we have a psychology and a philosophy, whether we're conscious of it or not. I maintain, from research, consdieration, discussion, and experience, that we also have a theology operative within us as well. But then, not everybody has the time or attention to bring to bear on such presumably remote considerations. After all, the grain farmer hardly concerns himself with the plight of the manatees. To him, they don't exist. Period. - avo [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. "Rationalists" DATE: 03-Nov-06 14:44:21 HOST: sverige "Do the extremists realise that experience doesn't indicate truth?" Well now, if there is any such thing as pure truth at all, wouldn't it be experience itself? Do you accept truths which you don't experience? How can experience by anything other than truth? Even illusion is itself a truth. The fact that you saw the man swallow the flaming sword is true. The notion that the man did in fact swallow the flaming sword is a derivation, an appearance, an illusion, whatever you want to call it; but it is true that that is what you saw; and it is not appropriate for others to deny that; or for others to conclude that because it was your experience then the even was false or not truth. Heisenberg pointed that out long ago. As to whether or not this whole consideration even merits anyones efforts, it could be noted that it has done so across all civilizations across all time; and it doesn't show any likely sign of ceasing. Carl Jung went around the globe studying the human psyche. He discovered a human concept of something beyond itself everywhere. But you know, folks can get full blown phD doctorates and degrees in psychology without ever having to read anything Jung wrote. That's like a degree in U.S. history without ever knowing about the Vietnam war and Richard Nixon. The study of mythology is enjoyable and rewarding; and integral to any study of the development of civilization. Now, but not earlier, the sciences of psychology and philosophy are accepted; and it is acknowledged that as humans we have a psychology and a philosophy, whether we're conscious of it or not. I maintain, from research, consdieration, discussion, and experience, that we also have a theology operative within us as well. But then, not everybody has the time or attention to bring to bear on such presumably remote considerations. After all, the grain farmer hardly concerns himself with the plight of the manatees. To him, they don't exist. Period. - avo TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. "Rationalists" DATE: 04-Nov-06 02:31:19 HOST: sverige Nice points, gentlemen. Thank you. One of the other fascinating values of experience observed in this context is that it (the diversity of experience, or 'they' (the diverse experiences themselves), show us something of the error inherent in our own observations. If you see it as blue, while I see it as green, then my understanding of its color has a measured 50% uncertainty. Grand stuff, knowing how wrong we are. I couldn't live without it. And, since "you can't prove a negative", positions that "there is not a God" are pretty ridiculous indeed. Eh. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. "Rationalists" DATE: 04-Nov-06 02:31:19 HOST: sverige Nice points, gentlemen. Thank you. One of the other fascinating values of experience observed in this context is that it (the diversity of experience, or 'they' (the diverse experiences themselves), show us something of the error inherent in our own observations. If you see it as blue, while I see it as green, then my understanding of its color has a measured 50% uncertainty. Grand stuff, knowing how wrong we are. I couldn't live without it. And, since "you can't prove a negative", positions that "there is not a God" are pretty ridiculous indeed. Eh. .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. "Rationalists" DATE: 04-Nov-06 12:41:36 HOST: sverige Thanks Stephen. I'll clarify further. Believing IS subjective. And it's both fine and reasonable to not have a belief in a God. It's a different thing to take an active belief that a God does not exist. That position has a high degree of uncertainty, measured by the observations of any random sample; whereas by the same measure of uncertainty, a belief that a God does exist has a lower degree of uncertainty. To state any negative (such as there is no God, or no life on other planets) as a fact or truth, is ...um... ridiculous? especially if it's wrapped in the flag of "science says so". [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. "Rationalists" DATE: 04-Nov-06 12:41:36 HOST: sverige Thanks Stephen. I'll clarify further. Believing IS subjective. And it's both fine and reasonable to not have a belief in a God. It's a different thing to take an active belief that a God does not exist. That position has a high degree of uncertainty, measured by the observations of any random sample; whereas by the same measure of uncertainty, a belief that a God does exist has a lower degree of uncertainty. To state any negative (such as there is no God, or no life on other planets) as a fact or truth, is ...um... ridiculous? especially if it's wrapped in the flag of "science says so". TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Firefox and SourceForge DATE: 05-Nov-07 12:14:00 HOST: sverige and with privoxy.org [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Firefox and SourceForge DATE: 05-Nov-07 12:14:00 HOST: sverige and with privoxy.org .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Spam?? DATE: 23-Oct-06 01:58:17 HOST: sverige noting that JunkMail (postal) pays for its transportation to your door, while Spam (email) steals its transportation services from others. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Spam?? DATE: 23-Oct-06 01:58:17 HOST: sverige noting that JunkMail (postal) pays for its transportation to your door, while Spam (email) steals its transportation services from others. .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Blingest bash DATE: 13-Jul-07 19:24:01 HOST: sverige Reganomic "dribble-on" has been thoroughly discredited before, and during, his unfortnate stint at the top. His pathetic sheeple didn't notice however because their sole sources of authoritative information is the likes of O'Reilly, Hannity, and Limbaugh. (speaking of lifestyle) [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Blingest bash DATE: 13-Jul-07 19:24:01 HOST: sverige Reganomic "dribble-on" has been thoroughly discredited before, and during, his unfortnate stint at the top. His pathetic sheeple didn't notice however because their sole sources of authoritative information is the likes of O'Reilly, Hannity, and Limbaugh. (speaking of lifestyle) .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Phrase DATE: 11-Dec-06 03:27:04 HOST: sverige CNN, and its ilk, are poisonous to the mind, and to the understanding, and to a genuine perspective of the most really important issues. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Phrase DATE: 11-Dec-06 03:27:04 HOST: sverige CNN, and its ilk, are poisonous to the mind, and to the understanding, and to a genuine perspective of the most really important issues. .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Budget, Priorities DATE: 11-May-07 20:51:36 HOST: sverige The Department of Warfare Intrusion and Invasion puts much of that money back into the greedy pockets of politicians via personal and campaign contributions from its contractors and mercenaries. They don't even pretend any longer to be auditable. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Budget, Priorities DATE: 11-May-07 20:51:36 HOST: sverige The Department of Warfare Intrusion and Invasion puts much of that money back into the greedy pockets of politicians via personal and campaign contributions from its contractors and mercenaries. They don't even pretend any longer to be auditable. .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. code bloat DATE: 19-Mar-07 13:27:54 HOST: sverige Commented configuration files are pretty nice for the first time encounter. It's not too hard to delete the comments when you're done with them. As to "code bloat", I used to code for the HP-41 calculator. Memory, speed, and storage all at severe minimums. In those days TBBS author Phil Becker coded up TBBS to handle 32 simultaneous dialin connections to DOS on a 386, but if I got my story straight, he formerly wrote code which communicated with and controlled satellites. Microsoft had a great deal of unpopularity back then too :) (since Billy took the DOS source from the back of somebody else's truck) [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. code bloat DATE: 19-Mar-07 13:27:54 HOST: sverige Commented configuration files are pretty nice for the first time encounter. It's not too hard to delete the comments when you're done with them. As to "code bloat", I used to code for the HP-41 calculator. Memory, speed, and storage all at severe minimums. In those days TBBS author Phil Becker coded up TBBS to handle 32 simultaneous dialin connections to DOS on a 386, but if I got my story straight, he formerly wrote code which communicated with and controlled satellites. Microsoft had a great deal of unpopularity back then too :) (since Billy took the DOS source from the back of somebody else's truck) TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. one of the principal problems with reality DATE: 16-May-07 13:51:09 HOST: sverige The problem isn't reality, barnacle, it's capitalism :) Those without money work their tails off to make payments into the financial system in the form of interest payments and insurance premiums which are collected by those with money who are on vacation someplace. And the gap ever widens, as ownership and capital become centralized far from local grasp. America isn't "spreading democracy". It's creating, and exploiting "markets" by which is meant slaves of capital, both exploited consumers and exploited producers. Stop by your local bank and observe the vast difference between the interest they'll pay to you for using your money, and the interest they'll charge you for using theirs. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. one of the principal problems with reality DATE: 16-May-07 13:51:09 HOST: sverige The problem isn't reality, barnacle, it's capitalism :) Those without money work their tails off to make payments into the financial system in the form of interest payments and insurance premiums which are collected by those with money who are on vacation someplace. And the gap ever widens, as ownership and capital become centralized far from local grasp. America isn't "spreading democracy". It's creating, and exploiting "markets" by which is meant slaves of capital, both exploited consumers and exploited producers. Stop by your local bank and observe the vast difference between the interest they'll pay to you for using your money, and the interest they'll charge you for using theirs. TACKER: davek (David Kettler) SUBJECT: .. one of the principal problems with reality DATE: 16-May-07 17:33:12 HOST: sverige The problem isn't capitalism, it's inheritance. If somebody works hard, becomes successful, and lives a life of luxury then I have absolutely no problem with that. It's when they pass that wealth on to their kids who never worked a day in their lives that it becomes an issue. Everyone should be given the same opportunities, but what they make of them is up to them. The wealth gap between the richest and poorest people is FAR larger than the income gap. Why is that? Wealth begets more wealth (interest, investing) while expenditures tend to increase slower than income. This means that once your income is past a certain level, wealth just accumulates and accumulates. It's positive feedback. On another note, avoyager, your example of the bank is pretty nonsensical if you understand how banks work. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: davek (David Kettler) SUBJECT: .. one of the principal problems with reality DATE: 16-May-07 17:33:12 HOST: sverige The problem isn't capitalism, it's inheritance. If somebody works hard, becomes successful, and lives a life of luxury then I have absolutely no problem with that. It's when they pass that wealth on to their kids who never worked a day in their lives that it becomes an issue. Everyone should be given the same opportunities, but what they make of them is up to them. The wealth gap between the richest and poorest people is FAR larger than the income gap. Why is that? Wealth begets more wealth (interest, investing) while expenditures tend to increase slower than income. This means that once your income is past a certain level, wealth just accumulates and accumulates. It's positive feedback. On another note, avoyager, your example of the bank is pretty nonsensical if you understand how banks work. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. one of the principal problems with reality DATE: 16-May-07 20:39:47 HOST: sverige Oh, I understand how banks work. That's pretty simple. It's basic predation. It's the securities and derivatives market you have to watch out for. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. one of the principal problems with reality DATE: 16-May-07 20:39:47 HOST: sverige Oh, I understand how banks work. That's pretty simple. It's basic predation. It's the securities and derivatives market you have to watch out for. .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. one of the principal problems with reality DATE: 17-May-07 11:44:16 HOST: sverige Folks bash Socialism without understanding what it is because they've been brainwashed into thinking it is the evil opposite of their personal wealth, health, and well-being. It's part of the "with us or against us" lack of mentality promulgated for the purpose of creating clear and hard divisions amongst the people who would otherwise unite against the burgeoning police state presently out to ruin, but rule, the planet. It denies all evidence that chains, teams, communities, societies, and civilizations are only as strong as their weakest link. Democracy used to have the same primary goal of Socialism, to let the people form and control a government for the purpose of cooperatively providing for the common welfare, just like it says in the preamble of the U.S. Constitution. To that end, corporations and economies were established to serve these common purposes. Capitalism makes a fine economic model as long as it is in service to the governance model. As a model of governance, socialism and democracy have much in common. In the U.S. things got out of hand back when corporations were tolerated as having the same rights as individuals. By now, the U.S. government is but a farce of its original democracy; being wholly controlled by the corporate mandate of greed and exploitation to the sole end of short term profits for shareholders. Socialism seeks to restore democracy, and decency, to a government by and for the people. It would certainly remove the current policy of redistributing wealth from the many into the corruption of the few; but it wouldn't cast the industry barrons into slums and poverty. The revolution is ineviatable. Hence the burgeoning police state, but even that cannot suppress a complete collapse of the flawed structure. Oh, the oh.so.precious.dollar. ... poof. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. one of the principal problems with reality DATE: 17-May-07 11:44:16 HOST: sverige Folks bash Socialism without understanding what it is because they've been brainwashed into thinking it is the evil opposite of their personal wealth, health, and well-being. It's part of the "with us or against us" lack of mentality promulgated for the purpose of creating clear and hard divisions amongst the people who would otherwise unite against the burgeoning police state presently out to ruin, but rule, the planet. It denies all evidence that chains, teams, communities, societies, and civilizations are only as strong as their weakest link. Democracy used to have the same primary goal of Socialism, to let the people form and control a government for the purpose of cooperatively providing for the common welfare, just like it says in the preamble of the U.S. Constitution. To that end, corporations and economies were established to serve these common purposes. Capitalism makes a fine economic model as long as it is in service to the governance model. As a model of governance, socialism and democracy have much in common. In the U.S. things got out of hand back when corporations were tolerated as having the same rights as individuals. By now, the U.S. government is but a farce of its original democracy; being wholly controlled by the corporate mandate of greed and exploitation to the sole end of short term profits for shareholders. Socialism seeks to restore democracy, and decency, to a government by and for the people. It would certainly remove the current policy of redistributing wealth from the many into the corruption of the few; but it wouldn't cast the industry barrons into slums and poverty. The revolution is ineviatable. Hence the burgeoning police state, but even that cannot suppress a complete collapse of the flawed structure. Oh, the oh.so.precious.dollar. ... poof. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. one of the principal problems with reality DATE: 20-May-07 12:51:31 HOST: sverige Well stated, Gavin. Thank you. Robin: "Now, if you have the brains or the tallent you will be rewarded." This just is not true at all with regard to financial reward. There are LOTS of brains and talent struggling to grasp a middle-class life style all over the world. Many of them have LOTS more brain and talent than the folks with the money and the folks with the power positions. It used to be that any "average" American could get a decent job in public service or with one of the utility companies, or other locally owned enterprise, make just enough to save a little and still take vacations, raise a family on a single income, have decent health care, and retire modestly but gracefully. Those "above-average" types, who also wanted and chose and had sufficient opportunity not generally available to others, could get some more education and "hang their shingle" as a professional; and do slightly better. There WAS a HUGE middle class which is rapidly eroding from both ends. And what's left of it requires two incomes to the family, restricted health care, reduced savings and vacation, and almost no job security at all any more. Those who are eroded upward, into more money, generally do so without any special brains or talent or even hard work. They get lucky like in the stock market, or they get priviledge handed to them, like inside traders, or start with enough money to double it quickly on some venture which only required money, not brains or talent or work. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. one of the principal problems with reality DATE: 20-May-07 12:51:31 HOST: sverige Well stated, Gavin. Thank you. Robin: "Now, if you have the brains or the tallent you will be rewarded." This just is not true at all with regard to financial reward. There are LOTS of brains and talent struggling to grasp a middle-class life style all over the world. Many of them have LOTS more brain and talent than the folks with the money and the folks with the power positions. It used to be that any "average" American could get a decent job in public service or with one of the utility companies, or other locally owned enterprise, make just enough to save a little and still take vacations, raise a family on a single income, have decent health care, and retire modestly but gracefully. Those "above-average" types, who also wanted and chose and had sufficient opportunity not generally available to others, could get some more education and "hang their shingle" as a professional; and do slightly better. There WAS a HUGE middle class which is rapidly eroding from both ends. And what's left of it requires two incomes to the family, restricted health care, reduced savings and vacation, and almost no job security at all any more. Those who are eroded upward, into more money, generally do so without any special brains or talent or even hard work. They get lucky like in the stock market, or they get priviledge handed to them, like inside traders, or start with enough money to double it quickly on some venture which only required money, not brains or talent or work. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. one of the principal problems with reality DATE: 21-May-07 12:16:28 HOST: sverige "There is nothing wrong with ... as long as you stay legal." The legal system is a very poor definer and regulator of morality and social good. It's purposes are more to define what is punishable by the State, rather than by what is the best course of action in general or in particular. "The rich spend money" Yeah! Like on "America's Cup" teams; and like at a rate exceeding 200 million dollars a DAY infesting foreign countries and cultures; and on replacing local economies with Wal-Marts in order to not fall out of the "top ten richest families". And who-know-what the pharmaceutical industry in the US pays out in supporting commercial television and buying/influencing the mainstream media to call the infestation a "war" of all things. And of course on electing politicians who will increase their personal wealth at any cost. "There is a need for taxes as there are inherent governmental functions" And THAT is the crux of the issue, the definition and application of "inherent government function". Should the government be funcitioning to serve the common interests of its people as a whole, or only the interests of wealthy campaign-contributing corporate mandate for greed and exploitation? "Universal health care" as presently implmented in different countries has exposed some of its weaknesses in implmentation, and maybe in policy. The proper course of action is to improve it, not discard it, at this point. You don't cut off your leg or kill yourself when you sprain an ankle. "The problem with health insurance" is that it isn't in the business of providing health care. It's in the business of increasing costs for and taking money from everybody including the health care providers and institutions. It is the "man in the middle" attack. "prevent abuse of the system" From what I see, "the market" and "market forces" have created far more problems than solutions. People fear "abuse of the system" as if everybody is going to shut down and only pull from, without contributing to, the general fund. That's ridiculous thinking, especially from those who are supposed to understand economic systems. It is wealth which abuses the system, not poverty or a happy peaceful wholesome healthy middle class. Mankind's most important achievements have been initiated and propelled by human need and imagination, not profit motive; and certainly not short term gain at long term wide spread expense as a willful decision. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. one of the principal problems with reality DATE: 21-May-07 12:16:28 HOST: sverige "There is nothing wrong with ... as long as you stay legal." The legal system is a very poor definer and regulator of morality and social good. It's purposes are more to define what is punishable by the State, rather than by what is the best course of action in general or in particular. "The rich spend money" Yeah! Like on "America's Cup" teams; and like at a rate exceeding 200 million dollars a DAY infesting foreign countries and cultures; and on replacing local economies with Wal-Marts in order to not fall out of the "top ten richest families". And who-know-what the pharmaceutical industry in the US pays out in supporting commercial television and buying/influencing the mainstream media to call the infestation a "war" of all things. And of course on electing politicians who will increase their personal wealth at any cost. "There is a need for taxes as there are inherent governmental functions" And THAT is the crux of the issue, the definition and application of "inherent government function". Should the government be funcitioning to serve the common interests of its people as a whole, or only the interests of wealthy campaign-contributing corporate mandate for greed and exploitation? "Universal health care" as presently implmented in different countries has exposed some of its weaknesses in implmentation, and maybe in policy. The proper course of action is to improve it, not discard it, at this point. You don't cut off your leg or kill yourself when you sprain an ankle. "The problem with health insurance" is that it isn't in the business of providing health care. It's in the business of increasing costs for and taking money from everybody including the health care providers and institutions. It is the "man in the middle" attack. "prevent abuse of the system" From what I see, "the market" and "market forces" have created far more problems than solutions. People fear "abuse of the system" as if everybody is going to shut down and only pull from, without contributing to, the general fund. That's ridiculous thinking, especially from those who are supposed to understand economic systems. It is wealth which abuses the system, not poverty or a happy peaceful wholesome healthy middle class. Mankind's most important achievements have been initiated and propelled by human need and imagination, not profit motive; and certainly not short term gain at long term wide spread expense as a willful decision. .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Frames DATE: 20-Jun-07 13:22:39 HOST: sverige or even different font sizes and screen resolutions; Some sites deal with these issues by coding specifically for a full-screen window, something I normally never use. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Frames DATE: 20-Jun-07 13:22:39 HOST: sverige or even different font sizes and screen resolutions; Some sites deal with these issues by coding specifically for a full-screen window, something I normally never use. .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. the money DATE: 20-May-07 20:49:56 HOST: sverige Pedro, I have nothing against rich people; they're some of my best clients. A better word than "exchanged" would be "transferred". It is what I had in mind. "Manufactured", in the case of paper money, would be "printed". Is there semi-permanent fixed quantity of dollar equivalent liquid asset on the planet? [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. the money DATE: 20-May-07 20:49:56 HOST: sverige Pedro, I have nothing against rich people; they're some of my best clients. A better word than "exchanged" would be "transferred". It is what I had in mind. "Manufactured", in the case of paper money, would be "printed". Is there semi-permanent fixed quantity of dollar equivalent liquid asset on the planet? TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. the money DATE: 21-May-07 12:29:45 HOST: sverige From what I see, "the market" and "market forces" have created far more problems than solutions. People fear "abuse of the system" as if everybody is going to shut down and only pull from, without contributing to, the general fund. That's ridiculous thinking, especially from those who purport to understand economic systems. It is wealth which abuses the system, not poverty or a happy peaceful wholesome healthy middle class. Mankind's most important achievements have been initiated and propelled by human need and imagination, not profit motive; and certainly not short term gain at long term wide spread expense as a willful decision. Though that natural and inherent drive to create a better life can be manipulated with things like tax codes and other artificial reward/punishment mandates. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. the money DATE: 21-May-07 12:29:45 HOST: sverige From what I see, "the market" and "market forces" have created far more problems than solutions. People fear "abuse of the system" as if everybody is going to shut down and only pull from, without contributing to, the general fund. That's ridiculous thinking, especially from those who purport to understand economic systems. It is wealth which abuses the system, not poverty or a happy peaceful wholesome healthy middle class. Mankind's most important achievements have been initiated and propelled by human need and imagination, not profit motive; and certainly not short term gain at long term wide spread expense as a willful decision. Though that natural and inherent drive to create a better life can be manipulated with things like tax codes and other artificial reward/punishment mandates. .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Drugs DATE: 22-Oct-06 22:49:00 HOST: sverige it's the textbook publisher's way of paying protection fees to the prison-industrial-complex you know, where nice peaceable blokes get put in the slammer for pot possession, and are made to do slave labor for what's left of the manufacturing sector at no/low cost to the profiteers. it also provides necessary PR for the burgeoning Police State. sucks,eh? [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Drugs DATE: 22-Oct-06 22:49:00 HOST: sverige it's the textbook publisher's way of paying protection fees to the prison-industrial-complex you know, where nice peaceable blokes get put in the slammer for pot possession, and are made to do slave labor for what's left of the manufacturing sector at no/low cost to the profiteers. it also provides necessary PR for the burgeoning Police State. sucks,eh? TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. *nix DATE: 24-Mar-07 04:28:54 HOST: sverige "How is *nix supposed to expand to 'linux'? I mean, really." It happens in your mind. I mean, really. If you don't get it the first time, you check around a little bit, and pretty soon, well, you just know what it means, sort of like pudding. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. *nix DATE: 24-Mar-07 04:28:54 HOST: sverige "How is *nix supposed to expand to 'linux'? I mean, really." It happens in your mind. I mean, really. If you don't get it the first time, you check around a little bit, and pretty soon, well, you just know what it means, sort of like pudding. .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. indian customer support DATE: 23-May-07 18:38:32 HOST: sverige "i seem to be monopolizing the BITCH board." Not really. "i wonder what that says." Good :) [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. indian customer support DATE: 23-May-07 18:38:32 HOST: sverige "i seem to be monopolizing the BITCH board." Not really. "i wonder what that says." Good :) TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. comcast DATE: 24-Apr-07 16:46:00 HOST: sverige "why it's necessary to unscrew the coaxial cable *and* turn the router's power off." Well now, barnacle, ... :) ..., that's why they're tech and you're not :) ... also, ... :) ..., ... it's for the goat. You've got to look at it from the goat's perspective. And maybe, just maybe, it helps reset the MAC table on somebody's switch. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. comcast DATE: 24-Apr-07 16:46:00 HOST: sverige "why it's necessary to unscrew the coaxial cable *and* turn the router's power off." Well now, barnacle, ... :) ..., that's why they're tech and you're not :) ... also, ... :) ..., ... it's for the goat. You've got to look at it from the goat's perspective. And maybe, just maybe, it helps reset the MAC table on somebody's switch. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. resource hogs DATE: 25-Sep-07 20:50:08 HOST: sverige How do we start a formal vote? Naim is a buggy resource hog. I propose that we vote to remove it. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. resource hogs DATE: 25-Sep-07 20:50:08 HOST: sverige How do we start a formal vote? Naim is a buggy resource hog. I propose that we vote to remove it. ...TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Your Bookshelf? DATE: 02-Apr-07 14:41:10 HOST: sverige "Go”del, Escher, Bach", Douglass Hofstadter "The Glass Bead Game", Hermann Hesse "Sometimes a Great Notion", Ken Kesey "The Great Shark Hunt", Hunter S. Thompson "Still Life With Woodpecker", Tom Robbins "The Kin of Ata Are Waiting for You", Dorothy Bryant "Mister God, This is Anna", Fynn "The Ascent of Man", Jacob Bronowski "Memories, Dreams, Reflections", Carl Jung "Divine Love and Wisdom", Emmanuel Swedenborg Great Books of the Western World Encyclopaedia Britannica Dictionaries and Atlases [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Your Bookshelf? DATE: 02-Apr-07 14:41:10 HOST: sverige "Go”del, Escher, Bach", Douglass Hofstadter "The Glass Bead Game", Hermann Hesse "Sometimes a Great Notion", Ken Kesey "The Great Shark Hunt", Hunter S. Thompson "Still Life With Woodpecker", Tom Robbins "The Kin of Ata Are Waiting for You", Dorothy Bryant "Mister God, This is Anna", Fynn "The Ascent of Man", Jacob Bronowski "Memories, Dreams, Reflections", Carl Jung "Divine Love and Wisdom", Emmanuel Swedenborg Great Books of the Western World Encyclopaedia Britannica Dictionaries and Atlases ..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. NPR RADIO & MPLAYER/XMMS DATE: 13-Oct-07 15:42:00 HOST: sverige and plug this into your browser ... http://www.publicradiofan.com/ [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. NPR RADIO & MPLAYER/XMMS DATE: 13-Oct-07 15:42:00 HOST: sverige and plug this into your browser ... http://www.publicradiofan.com/ TACKER: arpa (John Pollock) SUBJECT: .. NPR RADIO & MPLAYER/XMMS DATE: 13-Oct-07 16:27:40 HOST: faeroes avoyager, Thanks for the link, have it bookmarked. :) arpa [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: arpa (John Pollock) SUBJECT: .. NPR RADIO & MPLAYER/XMMS DATE: 13-Oct-07 16:27:40 HOST: faeroes avoyager, Thanks for the link, have it bookmarked. :) arpa TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. BSD Resources DATE: 14-Jun-07 12:48:22 HOST: sverige Switzer, ... Again, this process of learning UNIX/BSD/SDF goes slowly. In a way it is supposed to, with several benefits over rapidly injesting it all like thru some kind of mind-meld. Referring to the FAQ which you yourself referenced ... Also, a really great way to learn about this system is by not asking questions, but by just looking around, reading and trying things out. Don't worry about 'breaking' anything, just be adventurous and read the manual pages for interesting commands you might discover. It sinks in, and an exciting new discovery is always just around the corner waiting for us each to discover. It is afterall an exploration. Ascending a mountain peak is very much about the climb or hike, not taking the helo. Check for instance, 'cowsay' :) or 'smj' ... use the 'which' tool to see where they're located and the 'file' tool to discover their filetype and the 'less' tool to read the scripts and note that the directory in which you find these things also contains many other similar treasures for future exploration; and some day take note of the directory structure within which these files exist, and explore.... So, no mind-meld here, but much memory required to retain it all unless you take notes, links to which might be appreciated by other SDFers, such as thom has just done, or my old pages at NIX_notes.html and SDF_notes.html, or vosi's SDF_wiki!! now defunct. And I'd wager that if you explored the SDF gopher space you'd find some really fascinating things, including Albert Einstein's paper in support of socialism. /avoyager thanks the SDF'er who sponsored that for me! These things require *time*, .... *very enjoyable* time, which can be relished and cherished like a taste of fine vintage port, rather than gulping the bottle down like water. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. BSD Resources DATE: 14-Jun-07 12:48:22 HOST: sverige Switzer, ... Again, this process of learning UNIX/BSD/SDF goes slowly. In a way it is supposed to, with several benefits over rapidly injesting it all like thru some kind of mind-meld. Referring to the FAQ which you yourself referenced ... Also, a really great way to learn about this system is by not asking questions, but by just looking around, reading and trying things out. Don't worry about 'breaking' anything, just be adventurous and read the manual pages for interesting commands you might discover. It sinks in, and an exciting new discovery is always just around the corner waiting for us each to discover. It is afterall an exploration. Ascending a mountain peak is very much about the climb or hike, not taking the helo. Check for instance, 'cowsay' :) or 'smj' ... use the 'which' tool to see where they're located and the 'file' tool to discover their filetype and the 'less' tool to read the scripts and note that the directory in which you find these things also contains many other similar treasures for future exploration; and some day take note of the directory structure within which these files exist, and explore.... So, no mind-meld here, but much memory required to retain it all unless you take notes, links to which might be appreciated by other SDFers, such as thom has just done, or my old pages at NIX_notes.html and SDF_notes.html, or vosi's SDF_wiki!! now defunct. And I'd wager that if you explored the SDF gopher space you'd find some really fascinating things, including Albert Einstein's paper in support of socialism. /avoyager thanks the SDF'er who sponsored that for me! These things require *time*, .... *very enjoyable* time, which can be relished and cherished like a taste of fine vintage port, rather than gulping the bottle down like water. TACKER: thom (Thomas Graydon-Guy) SUBJECT: .. BSD Resources DATE: 14-Jun-07 21:15:44 HOST: faeroes Thanks for the links, have put most of them in. Will look at the package source work in progress thing a bit later. I definately second avoyager's suggestion of keeping a notebook, and might put in a note about that. Might even type up my BSD notebooks at some point. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: thom (Thomas Graydon-Guy) SUBJECT: .. BSD Resources DATE: 14-Jun-07 21:15:44 HOST: faeroes Thanks for the links, have put most of them in. Will look at the package source work in progress thing a bit later. I definately second avoyager's suggestion of keeping a notebook, and might put in a note about that. Might even type up my BSD notebooks at some point. ...............TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. enrypted smtp, vpn, etc DATE: 07-Apr-07 12:27:38 HOST: sverige In addition to Bruce's suggestions I'll add a recommendation for cotse.net. They offer all manner of interface to secure email in both directions, plus TLS on inbound and outbound public connections, SSH tunnels, HTTP and SOCKS proxys, most configurable spam filtering options, and frequently of most importance and use, multiple aliases (also multiple domain aliases) for your use; and in my determination, the very best way to rid yourself of spam is a willingness, and a system (aliases) to revoke/remove aliases. In addition to keeping spam out of your inboxes, this technique doesn't burden your servers with processing spam, and it leaves the cruft on the source which is trying to send it in the first place! (in addition, you get a decent spanel hosting account) all for $6/mo. I've been with them for years with no complaints. That said, you can also get most (sans TLS, HTTP proxy, Cpanel) of this AND MORE! at SDF with the appropriate membership levels. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. enrypted smtp, vpn, etc DATE: 07-Apr-07 12:27:38 HOST: sverige In addition to Bruce's suggestions I'll add a recommendation for cotse.net. They offer all manner of interface to secure email in both directions, plus TLS on inbound and outbound public connections, SSH tunnels, HTTP and SOCKS proxys, most configurable spam filtering options, and frequently of most importance and use, multiple aliases (also multiple domain aliases) for your use; and in my determination, the very best way to rid yourself of spam is a willingness, and a system (aliases) to revoke/remove aliases. In addition to keeping spam out of your inboxes, this technique doesn't burden your servers with processing spam, and it leaves the cruft on the source which is trying to send it in the first place! (in addition, you get a decent spanel hosting account) all for $6/mo. I've been with them for years with no complaints. That said, you can also get most (sans TLS, HTTP proxy, Cpanel) of this AND MORE! at SDF with the appropriate membership levels. .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Success and a lesson DATE: 14-May-07 19:07:28 HOST: sverige I would expect that two different concurrent DSL accounts would HAVE to be on two physically different wires and possibly two physically different modems on your end. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Success and a lesson DATE: 14-May-07 19:07:28 HOST: sverige I would expect that two different concurrent DSL accounts would HAVE to be on two physically different wires and possibly two physically different modems on your end. .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. DSL Splitters DATE: 19-May-07 03:53:34 HOST: sverige Jeff, what you describe looks like what I did. At the point where the wire lines come into the house, i picked the pair which carry the DSL and separated it from the other pairs. Then I ran a direct new cat-5 to the DSL modem. In my case, that pair also serves the computer faxmodem, and so there's a micro-filter where the modem splits from the DSL. If the one pair with DSL is also going to serve the rest of the house, the micro-filter would go at the perimiter wall, splitting the DSL from the rest of the house, and still running a new dedicated DSL line thru the house, with a single filter for everything else. Is the "splitter" to which you refer the same piece as the "micro-filter" packaged with the DSL modem? ... a "Y" splitter with DSL down one fork and filtered voice down the other? As I understand it (or mis-understand it) the "filter" is on the voice line, filtering it from the DSL signal. My costs, shared with the LAN wiring project, was the wire, the plastic male "jack" end plugs (whatever they're called), the crimper to fix the ends to the wire, and an optional wall plate which also provides the femail "jack" outlet for other pair in the wire going to voice lines. Connections are totally stable and fast; at the far end from the provider's CO even. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. DSL Splitters DATE: 19-May-07 03:53:34 HOST: sverige Jeff, what you describe looks like what I did. At the point where the wire lines come into the house, i picked the pair which carry the DSL and separated it from the other pairs. Then I ran a direct new cat-5 to the DSL modem. In my case, that pair also serves the computer faxmodem, and so there's a micro-filter where the modem splits from the DSL. If the one pair with DSL is also going to serve the rest of the house, the micro-filter would go at the perimiter wall, splitting the DSL from the rest of the house, and still running a new dedicated DSL line thru the house, with a single filter for everything else. Is the "splitter" to which you refer the same piece as the "micro-filter" packaged with the DSL modem? ... a "Y" splitter with DSL down one fork and filtered voice down the other? As I understand it (or mis-understand it) the "filter" is on the voice line, filtering it from the DSL signal. My costs, shared with the LAN wiring project, was the wire, the plastic male "jack" end plugs (whatever they're called), the crimper to fix the ends to the wire, and an optional wall plate which also provides the femail "jack" outlet for other pair in the wire going to voice lines. Connections are totally stable and fast; at the far end from the provider's CO even. TACKER: jgw (Jeff Woodall) SUBJECT: .. DSL Splitters DATE: 19-May-07 16:13:35 HOST: faeroes avoyager: Kinda. My service box is literally on the other side of the wall from where I have the DSL modem so I have lots of options. Currently I've got a cheap Y-splitter and micro filter inside the service box feeding both the DSL and POTS lines through to a multi-jack wallplate. The POTS line then feeds to dedicated jacks for phone service. CAT5e lines feed from the router connected to the DSL modem to other rooms. It works pretty well but I'd rather have a higher quality exterior grade splitter that has surge protection built-in to prevent say, a lightning strike, from taking out the whole enchilada, or even a simple short due to moisture getting in the service box. smj: I'll look around. Maybe some liquidators have them in bulk now that everyone but dinosaurs (like me) have cell phones. When I call Qwest these days I get directed to their "Legacy Customer Retention Center" - LOL. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: jgw (Jeff Woodall) SUBJECT: .. DSL Splitters DATE: 19-May-07 16:13:35 HOST: faeroes avoyager: Kinda. My service box is literally on the other side of the wall from where I have the DSL modem so I have lots of options. Currently I've got a cheap Y-splitter and micro filter inside the service box feeding both the DSL and POTS lines through to a multi-jack wallplate. The POTS line then feeds to dedicated jacks for phone service. CAT5e lines feed from the router connected to the DSL modem to other rooms. It works pretty well but I'd rather have a higher quality exterior grade splitter that has surge protection built-in to prevent say, a lightning strike, from taking out the whole enchilada, or even a simple short due to moisture getting in the service box. smj: I'll look around. Maybe some liquidators have them in bulk now that everyone but dinosaurs (like me) have cell phones. When I call Qwest these days I get directed to their "Legacy Customer Retention Center" - LOL. ..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Best Buy to buy Speakeasy DATE: 27-Mar-07 16:04:56 HOST: sverige No, it's not the "end of the world" , but it is the end of a quality independent operation. I was going to post this over in the Alex Jones channel, but it really is every bit as much appropriate here .... "each drone must be individually exploited, infected, and assimilated" -- http://www.shadowserver.org/wiki/pmwiki.php?n=Information.Botnets [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Best Buy to buy Speakeasy DATE: 27-Mar-07 16:04:56 HOST: sverige No, it's not the "end of the world" , but it is the end of a quality independent operation. I was going to post this over in the Alex Jones channel, but it really is every bit as much appropriate here .... "each drone must be individually exploited, infected, and assimilated" -- http://www.shadowserver.org/wiki/pmwiki.php?n=Information.Botnets TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. With SDF DSL can I keep current email address? DATE: 28-Oct-07 13:34:29 HOST: sverige Brandon, If you have their voice phone service, they'll be happy that you're still an existing customer, while sad that they don't have all of you; but at least they'll talk with you :) Letting you keep the sbcglobal addy is good promotion for them; ... every sbcglobal.net addy out there is good promotion for them. Since it's handled thru Yahoo!, their best play, which you could offer to them if they don't see it, would be to let you use it on a paid Yahoo account. It's a consideration, anyway. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. With SDF DSL can I keep current email address? DATE: 28-Oct-07 13:34:29 HOST: sverige Brandon, If you have their voice phone service, they'll be happy that you're still an existing customer, while sad that they don't have all of you; but at least they'll talk with you :) Letting you keep the sbcglobal addy is good promotion for them; ... every sbcglobal.net addy out there is good promotion for them. Since it's handled thru Yahoo!, their best play, which you could offer to them if they don't see it, would be to let you use it on a paid Yahoo account. It's a consideration, anyway. ..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Accents in e-mail DATE: 20-Mar-07 12:19:35 HOST: sverige Maybe this reference will be useful to you http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO-8859-1#ISO-8859-1 convert the hex keycode to decimal and enter it in the old fashoned way by the numeric pad with the Alt key down. ?? [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Accents in e-mail DATE: 20-Mar-07 12:19:35 HOST: sverige Maybe this reference will be useful to you http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO-8859-1#ISO-8859-1 convert the hex keycode to decimal and enter it in the old fashoned way by the numeric pad with the Alt key down. ?? ....TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. 20 yr. Anniversary of OS/2 - a History DATE: 04-Apr-07 00:08:18 HOST: sverige Thanks for sharing that positive experience, David. I moved into OS/2 2.1 from DOS/DesqView and TBBS/SEAdog. The Windows products never appealed to me, and from what I could see, didn't even work right. Neither did Autocad, so for that I went with InfoCad and then MicroStation. MicroStation even had an OS/2 version for a short while. Borland provided *_most_everything* required for a personal and professional life with DOS, and for my concerns all the office products (Sprint, Quattro Pro, Paradox) were sufficient or superior to the competition (SuperCalc aside, and Super Project Expert without challenge). For all the bad rap given Pascal as a programming language, there was nothing I wanted to do which it couldn't support. Borland Pascal was Object Oriented before C++ I believe; or at least concurrent. And then, FatBoy fell (or was it Reagan?), and Borland disappeared into the night after a foray into some GUI/mouse based C coding development environment which itself was written in Pascal. The prospects of converting my DOS dependencies to Windows were just plain revoltin', so I didn't. OS/2 2.1 came out saying that it could support all of my DOS based operations, AND it would provide a tcp/ip stack, networking, and slip/ppp access to the Internet, well in advance of Windows offering the same; and on an affordable hardware which could also support DOS; concurrent with the arising of local ISPs who could provide the 96k modem links. "Affordable" at the time was a Compaq Deskpro 386-16 for about US$5000 [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. 20 yr. Anniversary of OS/2 - a History DATE: 04-Apr-07 00:08:18 HOST: sverige Thanks for sharing that positive experience, David. I moved into OS/2 2.1 from DOS/DesqView and TBBS/SEAdog. The Windows products never appealed to me, and from what I could see, didn't even work right. Neither did Autocad, so for that I went with InfoCad and then MicroStation. MicroStation even had an OS/2 version for a short while. Borland provided *_most_everything* required for a personal and professional life with DOS, and for my concerns all the office products (Sprint, Quattro Pro, Paradox) were sufficient or superior to the competition (SuperCalc aside, and Super Project Expert without challenge). For all the bad rap given Pascal as a programming language, there was nothing I wanted to do which it couldn't support. Borland Pascal was Object Oriented before C++ I believe; or at least concurrent. And then, FatBoy fell (or was it Reagan?), and Borland disappeared into the night after a foray into some GUI/mouse based C coding development environment which itself was written in Pascal. The prospects of converting my DOS dependencies to Windows were just plain revoltin', so I didn't. OS/2 2.1 came out saying that it could support all of my DOS based operations, AND it would provide a tcp/ip stack, networking, and slip/ppp access to the Internet, well in advance of Windows offering the same; and on an affordable hardware which could also support DOS; concurrent with the arising of local ISPs who could provide the 96k modem links. "Affordable" at the time was a Compaq Deskpro 386-16 for about US$5000 TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. 20 yr. Anniversary of OS/2 - a History DATE: 04-Apr-07 01:01:21 HOST: sverige OS/2 is not, has never been, and isn't going to be, superior to Unix or BSD or Linux. First, it is a single user system. Lots of user/file permission features, and other security features, descend from this condition. Second, the HPFS file system hasn't matured, and most notably does not support the excellent feature of symbolic links. and that may be all. It does have a strong and stable window manager; and an outstanding desktop interface [included and default but not required, and is replaceable] on top of that. And in spite of its formal abandonment, OS/2, now eCcomStation, does support lots of current hardware, through the devoted contributions of many. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. 20 yr. Anniversary of OS/2 - a History DATE: 04-Apr-07 01:01:21 HOST: sverige OS/2 is not, has never been, and isn't going to be, superior to Unix or BSD or Linux. First, it is a single user system. Lots of user/file permission features, and other security features, descend from this condition. Second, the HPFS file system hasn't matured, and most notably does not support the excellent feature of symbolic links. and that may be all. It does have a strong and stable window manager; and an outstanding desktop interface [included and default but not required, and is replaceable] on top of that. And in spite of its formal abandonment, OS/2, now eCcomStation, does support lots of current hardware, through the devoted contributions of many. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. 20 yr. Anniversary of OS/2 - a History DATE: 04-Apr-07 01:25:32 HOST: sverige As a special exclusive for SDF users, I'll describe what my OS/2 system is doing today. You don't have to be impressed. I don't expect any of you to be doing half this much on any platform. This OS/2 system is my only current desktop computer. It runs on an Athlon 1700+ and 1G of RAM and a pair of 60G EIDE drives, all assembled 5 yrs. ago. Connected to the Internet by DSL modem, this system, with two NICS, provides the firewall/NAT gateway (fx.dk) to the local 100MB ethernet LAN. At this moment is has an uptime of 32 days and is running 52 processes, 218 threads, and 369 open files, all using 360MB of physical RAM and no disk cache. Full time services are Bind9, SMTPd, POPd, NTPd (precise time), and Privoxy filtering http proxy. Also in support of local/internal operations are 3 different concurrent SSH connections providing port-forwarding which provide renundant avenues of encryption thru ISP and privacy protection of local IP. Used with privoxy, these enable me to packet-filter block all outbound connections from the systems within the LAN, which are configured to use the OS/2 gateway for caching, resolving DNS, http and socks proxys, and direct tunnel connections for mail and irc. The firewall allows for timed openings and connection holes for things like AV updates, remote POP/IMAP connections; and also provides connection accounting in addition to policy logs. There is also a physical printer, and a PostScript -> PDF file converter print object, shared on the LAN. I'll describe client use of this busy OS/2 system in another posting. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. 20 yr. Anniversary of OS/2 - a History DATE: 04-Apr-07 01:25:32 HOST: sverige As a special exclusive for SDF users, I'll describe what my OS/2 system is doing today. You don't have to be impressed. I don't expect any of you to be doing half this much on any platform. This OS/2 system is my only current desktop computer. It runs on an Athlon 1700+ and 1G of RAM and a pair of 60G EIDE drives, all assembled 5 yrs. ago. Connected to the Internet by DSL modem, this system, with two NICS, provides the firewall/NAT gateway (fx.dk) to the local 100MB ethernet LAN. At this moment is has an uptime of 32 days and is running 52 processes, 218 threads, and 369 open files, all using 360MB of physical RAM and no disk cache. Full time services are Bind9, SMTPd, POPd, NTPd (precise time), and Privoxy filtering http proxy. Also in support of local/internal operations are 3 different concurrent SSH connections providing port-forwarding which provide renundant avenues of encryption thru ISP and privacy protection of local IP. Used with privoxy, these enable me to packet-filter block all outbound connections from the systems within the LAN, which are configured to use the OS/2 gateway for caching, resolving DNS, http and socks proxys, and direct tunnel connections for mail and irc. The firewall allows for timed openings and connection holes for things like AV updates, remote POP/IMAP connections; and also provides connection accounting in addition to policy logs. There is also a physical printer, and a PostScript -> PDF file converter print object, shared on the LAN. I'll describe client use of this busy OS/2 system in another posting. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. 20 yr. Anniversary of OS/2 - a History DATE: 05-Apr-07 13:37:29 HOST: sverige Most noteworthy of the OS/2 applications is the original "VirtualPC" product, subsequently acquired and killed by Microsoft, which on my desktop today supports windowed guests for w2kpro and Debian installations, fully networked into the local LAN with internet gateway. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. 20 yr. Anniversary of OS/2 - a History DATE: 05-Apr-07 13:37:29 HOST: sverige Most noteworthy of the OS/2 applications is the original "VirtualPC" product, subsequently acquired and killed by Microsoft, which on my desktop today supports windowed guests for w2kpro and Debian installations, fully networked into the local LAN with internet gateway. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. 20 yr. Anniversary of OS/2 - a History DATE: 06-Apr-07 03:03:02 HOST: sverige I am indeed referring to the Connectix VirtualPC product, provided in association with InnoTek Systemberatung GmhH for OS/2 ... with hardcopy bound manual bearing Copyright 2001, 2002 and installation CD. I use it frequently, on my OS/2 system, and have been for 5 years now. I don't even have a Mac :) After MicroSoft purchased this product, and killed at least the OS/2 host line, there was a product in development for OS/2 by the name of Svista which was taken over by Parallels. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. 20 yr. Anniversary of OS/2 - a History DATE: 06-Apr-07 03:03:02 HOST: sverige I am indeed referring to the Connectix VirtualPC product, provided in association with InnoTek Systemberatung GmhH for OS/2 ... with hardcopy bound manual bearing Copyright 2001, 2002 and installation CD. I use it frequently, on my OS/2 system, and have been for 5 years now. I don't even have a Mac :) After MicroSoft purchased this product, and killed at least the OS/2 host line, there was a product in development for OS/2 by the name of Svista which was taken over by Parallels. .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. The Find command DATE: 06-Dec-06 03:02:16 HOST: sverige !!!! "Do you have any idea where you are?" !!!! excellent, deanna :) thank you. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. The Find command DATE: 06-Dec-06 03:02:16 HOST: sverige !!!! "Do you have any idea where you are?" !!!! excellent, deanna :) thank you. .....TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Researching bittorrent tracker technologies DATE: 05-Sep-07 03:23:10 HOST: sverige I haven't run trackers, but with the python based (original?), (now at bittorrent.org), clients, I haven't seen anything radiating illegality. I think I recall archive.org serving torrents. Torrents are a great way to transfer large files, when they have a significant concurrent swarm. After that, they can still provide long term storage and distribution, but possibly quite slowly. Those are my two pointers since you asked :) [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Researching bittorrent tracker technologies DATE: 05-Sep-07 03:23:10 HOST: sverige I haven't run trackers, but with the python based (original?), (now at bittorrent.org), clients, I haven't seen anything radiating illegality. I think I recall archive.org serving torrents. Torrents are a great way to transfer large files, when they have a significant concurrent swarm. After that, they can still provide long term storage and distribution, but possibly quite slowly. Those are my two pointers since you asked :) ..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. DON'T FORGET TO VOTE TUESDAY! DATE: 08-Nov-06 19:14:27 HOST: sverige OK. Now that the U.S. electorate has replaced some shit-heads with some dip-shits, .... um, ..... well, ...... uuhh, ....... ...... the Daily Show should be pretty good this week. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. DON'T FORGET TO VOTE TUESDAY! DATE: 08-Nov-06 19:14:27 HOST: sverige OK. Now that the U.S. electorate has replaced some shit-heads with some dip-shits, .... um, ..... well, ...... uuhh, ....... ...... the Daily Show should be pretty good this week. .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. craigslist erotic services DATE: 08-Oct-07 20:31:49 HOST: sverige Prostitution is illegal!?!????? What the Hell. They may as well pass a law requiring drivers to wear seatbelts, and motorcyclists to wear helmets. Whatever happend to Freedom in the USA?? [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. craigslist erotic services DATE: 08-Oct-07 20:31:49 HOST: sverige Prostitution is illegal!?!????? What the Hell. They may as well pass a law requiring drivers to wear seatbelts, and motorcyclists to wear helmets. Whatever happend to Freedom in the USA?? .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. CAD work in Blender? DATE: 10-Jan-07 23:55:29 HOST: sverige I've used another Intellicad product, CADopia[.com], happily enough. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. CAD work in Blender? DATE: 10-Jan-07 23:55:29 HOST: sverige I've used another Intellicad product, CADopia[.com], happily enough. .....TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. national health care DATE: 13-Jul-07 19:28:00 HOST: sverige Rather than blaming the victims for "life-style", it's past time to acknowledge the real criminals in the unhealthy lives of the masses, those corporatist interests which extract nutritive values of the food production system and replace them with harmful degenerative foreign substances like trans-fat marjarines, antibiotics and pesticides. Wake up, sheeple. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. national health care DATE: 13-Jul-07 19:28:00 HOST: sverige Rather than blaming the victims for "life-style", it's past time to acknowledge the real criminals in the unhealthy lives of the masses, those corporatist interests which extract nutritive values of the food production system and replace them with harmful degenerative foreign substances like trans-fat marjarines, antibiotics and pesticides. Wake up, sheeple. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. national health care DATE: 13-Jul-07 22:58:51 HOST: sverige "We always hear how expensive it is, but I rarely see any sensible explanation of "why" it is expensive." I'll offer one for your consideration: the medical insurance enterprise; and relatedly, the pharmaceutical industry; and not relatedly, the medical malpractice threat. But if you really want to see HUGE spending waste, you hardlly have to look further than the Pentagon and other recently created fear based agencies. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. national health care DATE: 13-Jul-07 22:58:51 HOST: sverige "We always hear how expensive it is, but I rarely see any sensible explanation of "why" it is expensive." I'll offer one for your consideration: the medical insurance enterprise; and relatedly, the pharmaceutical industry; and not relatedly, the medical malpractice threat. But if you really want to see HUGE spending waste, you hardlly have to look further than the Pentagon and other recently created fear based agencies. .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. national health care DATE: 14-Jul-07 13:57:37 HOST: sverige I'm not confident that the application of "free market forces" would be appropriate to the practice of healthcare or medical treatments; because "free market forces" tend to be a dive race to the bottom .... of price ... then quality. In order to remain in business, services must be provided at less cost, and the corporate solution to that is to degrade quality. You see it everywhere as you watch your purchases fall apart and underperform. well .. not "EVERYwhere" ... but One great example of how the unregulated corporatist marketplace has been an absolute devastation is the environment and the food supply; both nearly ruined perhaps permanently by corporatism which is not only unregulated but now in control of the regulators. That said, "free market forces" can also have context in terms of consumer interaction; but when the consumer has no real say or influence, which is more often the case than not, this is something of a strawman. For medical treatment, are you going to "shop around" for an appendectomy? or to reset a broken bone? or for some angioplasty? Say you need some blood tests; are you going to drive/phone around looking for one lab to be more satisfactory than another? And what IF any schmoe with a degree from late nite cable-TV and some money from trading on insider information set up a corner shop to provide ANY of these services? What if AT&T or Microsoft or SAIC just bought out all the hospitals and doctors in your state, or drove them out of business by undercutting their prices or purchasing their supply chains, while covering it in other states? Face it folks, "free market" is a disaster rampaging the planet, breeding greed, loathing, and fear everywhere. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. national health care DATE: 14-Jul-07 13:57:37 HOST: sverige I'm not confident that the application of "free market forces" would be appropriate to the practice of healthcare or medical treatments; because "free market forces" tend to be a dive race to the bottom .... of price ... then quality. In order to remain in business, services must be provided at less cost, and the corporate solution to that is to degrade quality. You see it everywhere as you watch your purchases fall apart and underperform. well .. not "EVERYwhere" ... but One great example of how the unregulated corporatist marketplace has been an absolute devastation is the environment and the food supply; both nearly ruined perhaps permanently by corporatism which is not only unregulated but now in control of the regulators. That said, "free market forces" can also have context in terms of consumer interaction; but when the consumer has no real say or influence, which is more often the case than not, this is something of a strawman. For medical treatment, are you going to "shop around" for an appendectomy? or to reset a broken bone? or for some angioplasty? Say you need some blood tests; are you going to drive/phone around looking for one lab to be more satisfactory than another? And what IF any schmoe with a degree from late nite cable-TV and some money from trading on insider information set up a corner shop to provide ANY of these services? What if AT&T or Microsoft or SAIC just bought out all the hospitals and doctors in your state, or drove them out of business by undercutting their prices or purchasing their supply chains, while covering it in other states? Face it folks, "free market" is a disaster rampaging the planet, breeding greed, loathing, and fear everywhere. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. national health care DATE: 14-Jul-07 14:17:53 HOST: sverige > "And what IF any schmoe with a degree from late nite cable-TV and some money from trading on insider information set up a corner shop to provide ANY of these services?" This is actually happening (not quite to the stated extreme) in the U.S. Folks are setting up some kind of CT scanners or something in shopping malls (in former tobacco outlets) and providing cancer assessments. For those who don't know, part of the controversy is whether or not they're creating more than an appropriate amount of false positive tests. And another thing .... remember, ... if/since the sole motivation for providing services in a corporatist economy is PROFIT, .... where is the profit in prevention? compared to testing and treatment? No profit potential ... no motivation ... no action ... no prevention. High profit potential ... from illness ... from fear ... from illiteracy ... give it to 'em without delay so as to avoid "opportunity losses". /avo [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. national health care DATE: 14-Jul-07 14:17:53 HOST: sverige > "And what IF any schmoe with a degree from late nite cable-TV and some money from trading on insider information set up a corner shop to provide ANY of these services?" This is actually happening (not quite to the stated extreme) in the U.S. Folks are setting up some kind of CT scanners or something in shopping malls (in former tobacco outlets) and providing cancer assessments. For those who don't know, part of the controversy is whether or not they're creating more than an appropriate amount of false positive tests. And another thing .... remember, ... if/since the sole motivation for providing services in a corporatist economy is PROFIT, .... where is the profit in prevention? compared to testing and treatment? No profit potential ... no motivation ... no action ... no prevention. High profit potential ... from illness ... from fear ... from illiteracy ... give it to 'em without delay so as to avoid "opportunity losses". /avo TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. national health care DATE: 15-Jul-07 00:27:24 HOST: sverige Jeff, I am mostly/predominately in agreement with most of what you said. Thank you. So far however, cures and prevention have not been the product of corporatist profiteering. As a brief aside, and I do NOT want to be party to any hijacking of this thread, but by way of background, my current perspective is that the single point of failure in the current economic system, which includes the medical arena, was/is not capitalism or "free market", but was the granting of "personhood" rights to corporations (which by defintion have no conscience, morals, social or long term perspective, or virtue other than as exploiters). And when that attitude runs the government, democracy does not exist, and also the government becomes as selfishly focused as businesses. The fact that government has demonstrated an ability to be inept and inefficient should not impose that characteristic as a necesesary and unavoidable component of self-rule. Corporations have demonstrated at least as much inefficiency and ineptitude in their handling of "out-sourced" services; but/and *that* is not going to change in an unregulated climate of corporatism with the rights of conscientious humans. Bottom line, ... keep your hard earned money; and use it to stay healthy and out of trouble with the law. Peace, avo --- [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. national health care DATE: 15-Jul-07 00:27:24 HOST: sverige Jeff, I am mostly/predominately in agreement with most of what you said. Thank you. So far however, cures and prevention have not been the product of corporatist profiteering. As a brief aside, and I do NOT want to be party to any hijacking of this thread, but by way of background, my current perspective is that the single point of failure in the current economic system, which includes the medical arena, was/is not capitalism or "free market", but was the granting of "personhood" rights to corporations (which by defintion have no conscience, morals, social or long term perspective, or virtue other than as exploiters). And when that attitude runs the government, democracy does not exist, and also the government becomes as selfishly focused as businesses. The fact that government has demonstrated an ability to be inept and inefficient should not impose that characteristic as a necesesary and unavoidable component of self-rule. Corporations have demonstrated at least as much inefficiency and ineptitude in their handling of "out-sourced" services; but/and *that* is not going to change in an unregulated climate of corporatism with the rights of conscientious humans. Bottom line, ... keep your hard earned money; and use it to stay healthy and out of trouble with the law. Peace, avo --- TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. national health care DATE: 15-Jul-07 02:58:23 HOST: sverige "As to the free-market system being to blame; Perhaps, though I'm more inclined to believe it is the participation of corporate entities, treated with the same rights as individuals, all while not being bound ..." /avo waves and cheers noting that these are the same entities which control and provide the dysfunctions of today's government. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. national health care DATE: 15-Jul-07 02:58:23 HOST: sverige "As to the free-market system being to blame; Perhaps, though I'm more inclined to believe it is the participation of corporate entities, treated with the same rights as individuals, all while not being bound ..." /avo waves and cheers noting that these are the same entities which control and provide the dysfunctions of today's government. TACKER: gpd (Gavin Duley) SUBJECT: .. national health care DATE: 15-Jul-07 13:59:59 HOST: droog sheywood wrote: >"Free" public health care for everyone would be too expensive for the >tax payers to afford. If everybody had "free" public health care then >everybody would go to the doctor or to the emergency room every time >he suffers from a common cold or a sprained ankle or some other >condition that he would get over and recover from without any >professional medical treatment. I have no knowledge of how things are in the US, but I'm doubtful about not being able to afford it. The UK, after all, can afford a free health care system. Australia can also afford a more or less free health care system. I doubt either country is richer than the US. Yes, they do have to put up with people visiting A&E for a cold, but I doubt this is the major financial strain on the system. Such cases are generally fairly quickly turned away. In terms of being able to choose your health care, both countries have private as well as public. You can't opt-out of public health care, but there's a wide range of private options for you if for some reason you don't want to go to the public system -- and there's nothing really to force you to. They're geneally faster (ie you get to see a doctor sooner, and any treatment happengs quicker), but not always as good as the public system. The important thing, I guess, is that you shouldn't be without treatment just because you can't afford it. Oh yes, and I'm going to agree with avoyager et al. on the point that treating corporations as individuals causes problems. Thought that ever since watching 'The Corporation' -- quite a good film, that. gavin, [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: gpd (Gavin Duley) SUBJECT: .. national health care DATE: 15-Jul-07 13:59:59 HOST: droog sheywood wrote: >"Free" public health care for everyone would be too expensive for the >tax payers to afford. If everybody had "free" public health care then >everybody would go to the doctor or to the emergency room every time >he suffers from a common cold or a sprained ankle or some other >condition that he would get over and recover from without any >professional medical treatment. I have no knowledge of how things are in the US, but I'm doubtful about not being able to afford it. The UK, after all, can afford a free health care system. Australia can also afford a more or less free health care system. I doubt either country is richer than the US. Yes, they do have to put up with people visiting A&E for a cold, but I doubt this is the major financial strain on the system. Such cases are generally fairly quickly turned away. In terms of being able to choose your health care, both countries have private as well as public. You can't opt-out of public health care, but there's a wide range of private options for you if for some reason you don't want to go to the public system -- and there's nothing really to force you to. They're geneally faster (ie you get to see a doctor sooner, and any treatment happengs quicker), but not always as good as the public system. The important thing, I guess, is that you shouldn't be without treatment just because you can't afford it. Oh yes, and I'm going to agree with avoyager et al. on the point that treating corporations as individuals causes problems. Thought that ever since watching 'The Corporation' -- quite a good film, that. gavin, TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. national health care DATE: 16-Jul-07 04:14:15 HOST: sverige "When things become cheaper, people choose to consume more of it." Only if they want it. I for one wouldn't want to spend umpteen hours filling out paperwork and hanging around in a disease-ridden medical care environment unless I *needed* to, *especially* if my immune system is already depressed with a head cold or flu. It's really sad what a low impression some folks have of humans. Attitudes of "if the society became socialist, everybody would sit on their butts and expect handouts" reflects only the acknowledgement of that propensity by the speaker, and is not an accurate picture of others in the population who don't like or want to just sit worthlessly on their duffs. Just because the U.S. leadership, and its supporters, currently possess zero integrity or responsibility or accountability doesn't make them human. Humans are capable of, and strive for, virtue; corporations (and their political tools) are, and do, not. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. national health care DATE: 16-Jul-07 04:14:15 HOST: sverige "When things become cheaper, people choose to consume more of it." Only if they want it. I for one wouldn't want to spend umpteen hours filling out paperwork and hanging around in a disease-ridden medical care environment unless I *needed* to, *especially* if my immune system is already depressed with a head cold or flu. It's really sad what a low impression some folks have of humans. Attitudes of "if the society became socialist, everybody would sit on their butts and expect handouts" reflects only the acknowledgement of that propensity by the speaker, and is not an accurate picture of others in the population who don't like or want to just sit worthlessly on their duffs. Just because the U.S. leadership, and its supporters, currently possess zero integrity or responsibility or accountability doesn't make them human. Humans are capable of, and strive for, virtue; corporations (and their political tools) are, and do, not. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. national health care DATE: 16-Jul-07 21:05:26 HOST: sverige In the United States it's silly to talk about the costs of providing public health care or education. There's plenty of money for it, requiring only a most reasonable shift in budgeting the existing expense side. As to letting poor people rot while those who can afford it pay their own way for health care, the line of affordability is probably somewhere around the 85:15 percent of population who rot:don't. as long as the system is ruled by today's criminal enterprise. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. national health care DATE: 16-Jul-07 21:05:26 HOST: sverige In the United States it's silly to talk about the costs of providing public health care or education. There's plenty of money for it, requiring only a most reasonable shift in budgeting the existing expense side. As to letting poor people rot while those who can afford it pay their own way for health care, the line of affordability is probably somewhere around the 85:15 percent of population who rot:don't. as long as the system is ruled by today's criminal enterprise. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. travel advice DATE: 14-May-07 04:53:14 HOST: sverige Beautiful Trip, barnacle! I'd personally ditch the expense of car, insurance, maintenance, and fuel; and look into a rail pass. Note also, that when you get to Winnipeg, you can probably still take a train up to Churchill on Hudson Bay. By the schedule I planned 20 yrs ago, it arrived at 8am and departed at 8pm; plenty of time to see all the local attractions and bars. There's a ferry from Prince Rupert to Vancouver Island; and a bit of a bus trip required to catch back up with the rail. In the US, passenger rail service is provided by amtrak.com In Canada, it's viarail.ca Then of course travel only with what you can comfortably carry and quickly toss into a ride or a bus; probably a soft frame backpack. Plan/prepare to never return to your starting point any time soon. What is this about anyway? your Pluto transit? on top of Saturn return? What are you now?, closing in on 28-30? Don't look back. Go forward with consciousness as an explorer of your life and the world around you. You'll love it forever. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. travel advice DATE: 14-May-07 04:53:14 HOST: sverige Beautiful Trip, barnacle! I'd personally ditch the expense of car, insurance, maintenance, and fuel; and look into a rail pass. Note also, that when you get to Winnipeg, you can probably still take a train up to Churchill on Hudson Bay. By the schedule I planned 20 yrs ago, it arrived at 8am and departed at 8pm; plenty of time to see all the local attractions and bars. There's a ferry from Prince Rupert to Vancouver Island; and a bit of a bus trip required to catch back up with the rail. In the US, passenger rail service is provided by amtrak.com In Canada, it's viarail.ca Then of course travel only with what you can comfortably carry and quickly toss into a ride or a bus; probably a soft frame backpack. Plan/prepare to never return to your starting point any time soon. What is this about anyway? your Pluto transit? on top of Saturn return? What are you now?, closing in on 28-30? Don't look back. Go forward with consciousness as an explorer of your life and the world around you. You'll love it forever. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. travel advice DATE: 14-May-07 12:03:11 HOST: sverige A bus trip, and several hours in a bus station, are likely to be a rare experience however; maybe one worth having once which should be easy enough because they do go where trains don't. A drivers license is handy for getting a rental every now and then. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. travel advice DATE: 14-May-07 12:03:11 HOST: sverige A bus trip, and several hours in a bus station, are likely to be a rare experience however; maybe one worth having once which should be easy enough because they do go where trains don't. A drivers license is handy for getting a rental every now and then. .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. travel advice DATE: 14-May-07 20:41:53 HOST: sverige "Schmidt" [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. travel advice DATE: 14-May-07 20:41:53 HOST: sverige "Schmidt" TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. travel advice DATE: 18-May-07 13:14:41 HOST: sverige There are a lot of factors to take into account when deciding whether to drive or take the train all the way across Canada. Can you name the places where you wish to go and which you know do not contain ANY way of getting there other than driving yourself? Hitch-hiking isn't a lost art in the rural way-back. There's a lot of places you can't take a car either :) Do you enjoy meeting people along the way while riding, and waiting for, public transportation? or asking for a ride? Or do you shell up inside of your radioland and listen to your ipod while you keep the car on the road? Or do you like to sit at a table in the lounge car watching the countryside go by the window while you engage with others or have a beer? This consideration illuminates another major benefit of not driving - the enormous freedom from responsibilities to take care of, and find parking for, the car, and the driver. Damn pain in the ass really; its a burden. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. travel advice DATE: 18-May-07 13:14:41 HOST: sverige There are a lot of factors to take into account when deciding whether to drive or take the train all the way across Canada. Can you name the places where you wish to go and which you know do not contain ANY way of getting there other than driving yourself? Hitch-hiking isn't a lost art in the rural way-back. There's a lot of places you can't take a car either :) Do you enjoy meeting people along the way while riding, and waiting for, public transportation? or asking for a ride? Or do you shell up inside of your radioland and listen to your ipod while you keep the car on the road? Or do you like to sit at a table in the lounge car watching the countryside go by the window while you engage with others or have a beer? This consideration illuminates another major benefit of not driving - the enormous freedom from responsibilities to take care of, and find parking for, the car, and the driver. Damn pain in the ass really; its a burden. .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Erin B. wins teh prize! DATE: 15-Apr-07 20:45:25 HOST: sverige Congratulations! Wow! Two Erins! :) What did you do/submit to demonstrate your "commitment to environmental progress" ? What will be your activity/project in Brazil? It all sounds very exciting. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Erin B. wins teh prize! DATE: 15-Apr-07 20:45:25 HOST: sverige Congratulations! Wow! Two Erins! :) What did you do/submit to demonstrate your "commitment to environmental progress" ? What will be your activity/project in Brazil? It all sounds very exciting. .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Is the NON dead? DATE: 15-Nov-06 20:21:30 HOST: sverige I hope, and think, that the NON is only dormant, waiting for enough support to either motivate smj or wrest some of the initiative from his control. Interested individuals are welcome to join the idle yet persistent group at irc.chatspike.net #The_NON (SSL via :6668) and to post at https://forum.nonnic.org/ [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Is the NON dead? DATE: 15-Nov-06 20:21:30 HOST: sverige I hope, and think, that the NON is only dormant, waiting for enough support to either motivate smj or wrest some of the initiative from his control. Interested individuals are welcome to join the idle yet persistent group at irc.chatspike.net #The_NON (SSL via :6668) and to post at https://forum.nonnic.org/ .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Where is my pine INBOX located? DATE: 16-Oct-07 23:29:40 HOST: sverige Really. $MAIL is not defined? as ${LOGNAME:?} or `logname` ? Mail to SDF accounts comes to the mailspool at /var/mail/ into user accounts of /var/mail/$LOGNAME Pine and other mail clients are generally, and at SDF, configured to look at $MAIL (/var/mail/$LOGNAME} for new mail, and move it to their local file or directory in $HOME/ At this moment, at least on 'sverige', both 'pine' and 'alpine' are "working". [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Where is my pine INBOX located? DATE: 16-Oct-07 23:29:40 HOST: sverige Really. $MAIL is not defined? as ${LOGNAME:?} or `logname` ? Mail to SDF accounts comes to the mailspool at /var/mail/ into user accounts of /var/mail/$LOGNAME Pine and other mail clients are generally, and at SDF, configured to look at $MAIL (/var/mail/$LOGNAME} for new mail, and move it to their local file or directory in $HOME/ At this moment, at least on 'sverige', both 'pine' and 'alpine' are "working". TACKER: jimleong (Jim Leong) SUBJECT: .. Where is my pine INBOX located? DATE: 17-Oct-07 14:21:58 HOST: sdf I found my pine INBOX at the mail spool at /var/mail/"username" as a avoyager and nitewing had stated. THANY YOU ALL for your assistance. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: jimleong (Jim Leong) SUBJECT: .. Where is my pine INBOX located? DATE: 17-Oct-07 14:21:58 HOST: sdf I found my pine INBOX at the mail spool at /var/mail/"username" as a avoyager and nitewing had stated. THANY YOU ALL for your assistance. .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. I need some advise DATE: 16-Mar-07 18:22:56 HOST: sverige Trolled again You have rights. You can continue to abandon them, or you can stand up (grow up, that's part of what college is for) and assert them. If you're too scared to do this, I expect you're also too scared to try out for the team, or to request employment, or defend your position, or to assert your responsibility, or to make up you mind about which shoes to wear when it rains. Stand up. Wash up. Face up. It's your life to live, not to watch go by. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. I need some advise DATE: 16-Mar-07 18:22:56 HOST: sverige Trolled again You have rights. You can continue to abandon them, or you can stand up (grow up, that's part of what college is for) and assert them. If you're too scared to do this, I expect you're also too scared to try out for the team, or to request employment, or defend your position, or to assert your responsibility, or to make up you mind about which shoes to wear when it rains. Stand up. Wash up. Face up. It's your life to live, not to watch go by. ..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. SDF's club in China DATE: 20-Apr-07 14:38:03 HOST: sverige That's great to see about Dream Host, Mike. Their reputation is also quite good that I've seen. Congratulations indeed. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. SDF's club in China DATE: 20-Apr-07 14:38:03 HOST: sverige That's great to see about Dream Host, Mike. Their reputation is also quite good that I've seen. Congratulations indeed. .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. search engine DATE: 20-Jul-07 19:59:06 HOST: sverige .AV .ATW .MindSet .IX .Clusty .AN .Ask and Wikipedia [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. search engine DATE: 20-Jul-07 19:59:06 HOST: sverige .AV .ATW .MindSet .IX .Clusty .AN .Ask and Wikipedia TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Why are we being DDoSed? DATE: 20-Jun-07 01:01:05 HOST: sverige Well, ... I have no specific details on the current activity; but what I do see happen a LOT elsewhere is that botnet spammers will use completely invented aliases in email addresses for legitimate domains, not so much for recipients, but as forged senders; ..... and quite sadly there are still too many mail servers which accept the spam first, analyze it, and then bounce it back to the forged senders. What makes it a distributed DOS is that the connecting IPs are mostly mail hosts sending bounced mail to forged senders, from f'n everywhere. Now, again, I have NO information on what is currently taking place, but I present the above description in part as an example of how these kinds of misfortunes can be generated by a lot of just clue deprived system operators, rather than a single malicious individual. And of course there are a great variety of methods by which a DDOS can be effected. avo --- [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Why are we being DDoSed? DATE: 20-Jun-07 01:01:05 HOST: sverige Well, ... I have no specific details on the current activity; but what I do see happen a LOT elsewhere is that botnet spammers will use completely invented aliases in email addresses for legitimate domains, not so much for recipients, but as forged senders; ..... and quite sadly there are still too many mail servers which accept the spam first, analyze it, and then bounce it back to the forged senders. What makes it a distributed DOS is that the connecting IPs are mostly mail hosts sending bounced mail to forged senders, from f'n everywhere. Now, again, I have NO information on what is currently taking place, but I present the above description in part as an example of how these kinds of misfortunes can be generated by a lot of just clue deprived system operators, rather than a single malicious individual. And of course there are a great variety of methods by which a DDOS can be effected. avo --- TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Why are we being DDoSed? DATE: 23-Jun-07 19:24:55 HOST: sverige Maybe now would be a good time to observe 'nolisting' in action. It has been highly successful in some high volume implementations. http://www.joreybump.com/code/howto/nolisting.html (and perhaps elsewhere) ... and maybe only as a temporary configuration until the flood ebbs. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Why are we being DDoSed? DATE: 23-Jun-07 19:24:55 HOST: sverige Maybe now would be a good time to observe 'nolisting' in action. It has been highly successful in some high volume implementations. http://www.joreybump.com/code/howto/nolisting.html (and perhaps elsewhere) ... and maybe only as a temporary configuration until the flood ebbs. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Thoughts about spam DATE: 20-Jun-07 13:30:14 HOST: sverige tmp, you overlooked something. Your 'tmp' account at SDF may bave been used "before you". take a look at the SDF util 'chklogin' Julian, I expect that spam email harvesters have more efficient methods of scraping together a "millions CD" than monitoring COM :) Well known techniques used by anti-spam activists to seed email addresses for use in spam-traps are: post to usenet; expose the address on a website or in a maillto on a website; enter it into almost any online request form, especially on the more obvious "FFA sites" (if those even still exist on the Net), and use it in "(click|email) here to remove" schemes. And, sadly, if you use it with correspondents who are in the unfortunate habit of forwarding many fanciful emails to their entire address book, always in the f'n open clear, and nesting within that all the forwarded targets of the last umpteen generations of this thing which goes on endlessly, it will become useless. avo --- [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Thoughts about spam DATE: 20-Jun-07 13:30:14 HOST: sverige tmp, you overlooked something. Your 'tmp' account at SDF may bave been used "before you". take a look at the SDF util 'chklogin' Julian, I expect that spam email harvesters have more efficient methods of scraping together a "millions CD" than monitoring COM :) Well known techniques used by anti-spam activists to seed email addresses for use in spam-traps are: post to usenet; expose the address on a website or in a maillto on a website; enter it into almost any online request form, especially on the more obvious "FFA sites" (if those even still exist on the Net), and use it in "(click|email) here to remove" schemes. And, sadly, if you use it with correspondents who are in the unfortunate habit of forwarding many fanciful emails to their entire address book, always in the f'n open clear, and nesting within that all the forwarded targets of the last umpteen generations of this thing which goes on endlessly, it will become useless. avo --- ..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. SDF User Map DATE: 21-Jan-07 15:20:16 HOST: sverige "tip" ?? on an oblate spheroid ? [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. SDF User Map DATE: 21-Jan-07 15:20:16 HOST: sverige "tip" ?? on an oblate spheroid ? TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. reverse port test DATE: 22-Jul-07 00:33:38 HOST: sverige If I interpreted that correctly, you wish to discover which destination ports your gateway is blocking on outbound traffic. To do that, you need a remote host listening, and responding, on the ports in question. Something like netcat might be useful for this, but only for a few ports at a time of interest. The difficulty being that of having a responder on many ports concurrently. I doubt very much that there is a service for that. Another way comes to mind ... You could run nmap on your side and send outbound packets to every remote port of concern, targeting my host as remote; then I scan my firewall logs to see which were hit and which weren't. Which brings to mind the image of you just firing up netcat to test ports at some remote IP which would always respond "closed" rather than drop packet without response "blocked". But you'd have to coordinate this with the remote as well. Make sense? Still want to proceed? avo --- [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. reverse port test DATE: 22-Jul-07 00:33:38 HOST: sverige If I interpreted that correctly, you wish to discover which destination ports your gateway is blocking on outbound traffic. To do that, you need a remote host listening, and responding, on the ports in question. Something like netcat might be useful for this, but only for a few ports at a time of interest. The difficulty being that of having a responder on many ports concurrently. I doubt very much that there is a service for that. Another way comes to mind ... You could run nmap on your side and send outbound packets to every remote port of concern, targeting my host as remote; then I scan my firewall logs to see which were hit and which weren't. Which brings to mind the image of you just firing up netcat to test ports at some remote IP which would always respond "closed" rather than drop packet without response "blocked". But you'd have to coordinate this with the remote as well. Make sense? Still want to proceed? avo --- .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Phishermen beware - Alpine warns of deceptive links DATE: 22-Jun-07 18:34:41 HOST: sverige "Does anyone know of any other email clients that have such a cool feature?" Sure. All text based html-allergic MUAs offer this feature without effort. "Clicking on" email .... what a lame idea. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Phishermen beware - Alpine warns of deceptive links DATE: 22-Jun-07 18:34:41 HOST: sverige "Does anyone know of any other email clients that have such a cool feature?" Sure. All text based html-allergic MUAs offer this feature without effort. "Clicking on" email .... what a lame idea. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. france old news on p2p - i want to say something DATE: 23-Sep-07 17:18:13 HOST: sverige I'm seriously curious about this; not trying to pick any fights or wage any arguments. What makes music from outfits which take your money (for instance, emusic) more "legal" than music from p2p or your neighbor? Do you actually believe that the recipient of your money (for example, emusic) has some peculiar "right of ownership" to that music which entitles *them* to your money? Do you actually believe that some of your money goes to the music artists? What about dead artists? Who gets their money from this?, and why? Do you have answers to these questions? or do you just feel cleaner when you exchange away something for something received? And why doesn't exchanging one song for another qualify? Seriously. --avo [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. france old news on p2p - i want to say something DATE: 23-Sep-07 17:18:13 HOST: sverige I'm seriously curious about this; not trying to pick any fights or wage any arguments. What makes music from outfits which take your money (for instance, emusic) more "legal" than music from p2p or your neighbor? Do you actually believe that the recipient of your money (for example, emusic) has some peculiar "right of ownership" to that music which entitles *them* to your money? Do you actually believe that some of your money goes to the music artists? What about dead artists? Who gets their money from this?, and why? Do you have answers to these questions? or do you just feel cleaner when you exchange away something for something received? And why doesn't exchanging one song for another qualify? Seriously. --avo TACKER: mgardner (Michael Gardner) SUBJECT: .. france old news on p2p - i want to say something DATE: 23-Sep-07 22:58:29 HOST: sdf avoyager, I believe they are concerned as to whether the music sharing is "legal". If it's "legal", then men with guns won't come and attempt to seize your money, property, or person for doing it. I could be wrong, but I suspect that the moral implications are a secondary concern in the case of file sharing. We aren't talking about murder or robbery here. Mike [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: mgardner (Michael Gardner) SUBJECT: .. france old news on p2p - i want to say something DATE: 23-Sep-07 22:58:29 HOST: sdf avoyager, I believe they are concerned as to whether the music sharing is "legal". If it's "legal", then men with guns won't come and attempt to seize your money, property, or person for doing it. I could be wrong, but I suspect that the moral implications are a secondary concern in the case of file sharing. We aren't talking about murder or robbery here. Mike TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. france old news on p2p - i want to say something DATE: 25-Sep-07 20:35:31 HOST: sverige James: thank you very much for the detailed explanation. It would seem, without doing much significant research, that 1) users of pay for music sites take it for granted that those sites do in fact have a payout accounting which is acceptable to every entity which claims ownership rights to every song sold. That seems like a helluva lot of administrative effort. 2) users of peer networks may not accept the claimed rights, especially in perpetuity, of third parties to music, or perhaps other intellectual property; for any number of reasonable even legal reasons, including for instance that the original contract between recording label and artist was sufficiently imbalanced and coercive as to be self-nullifying in some states; or possibly that the collusion of the recording industry and the radio broadcast industry created an effective monopolistic environment which was prejudicial against the artists. 3) perhaps there are just as many scofflaws as there are bad laws ? OK. Thanks again. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. france old news on p2p - i want to say something DATE: 25-Sep-07 20:35:31 HOST: sverige James: thank you very much for the detailed explanation. It would seem, without doing much significant research, that 1) users of pay for music sites take it for granted that those sites do in fact have a payout accounting which is acceptable to every entity which claims ownership rights to every song sold. That seems like a helluva lot of administrative effort. 2) users of peer networks may not accept the claimed rights, especially in perpetuity, of third parties to music, or perhaps other intellectual property; for any number of reasonable even legal reasons, including for instance that the original contract between recording label and artist was sufficiently imbalanced and coercive as to be self-nullifying in some states; or possibly that the collusion of the recording industry and the radio broadcast industry created an effective monopolistic environment which was prejudicial against the artists. 3) perhaps there are just as many scofflaws as there are bad laws ? OK. Thanks again. ..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. I received a spam that didn't even have a "To." header DATE: 25-Jul-07 03:51:42 HOST: sverige All header fields are optional, and forgable. During the SMTP transaction which delivers the mail, they are DATA content with the message body. The SMTP transaction utilizes separate "envelope" sender and recipient fields. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. I received a spam that didn't even have a "To." header DATE: 25-Jul-07 03:51:42 HOST: sverige All header fields are optional, and forgable. During the SMTP transaction which delivers the mail, they are DATA content with the message body. The SMTP transaction utilizes separate "envelope" sender and recipient fields. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. I received a spam that didn't even have a "To." header DATE: 25-Jul-07 18:39:30 HOST: sverige "So when you send an email the To, From, Date details are entered twice, once in the header for display purposes and once in the body which is used to send the email." Correction: header and body are both DATA; the delivery destination is the "envelope recipient". If the OP would like to post the full headers of the MIQ then a complete analysis will be possible. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. I received a spam that didn't even have a "To." header DATE: 25-Jul-07 18:39:30 HOST: sverige "So when you send an email the To, From, Date details are entered twice, once in the header for display purposes and once in the body which is used to send the email." Correction: header and body are both DATA; the delivery destination is the "envelope recipient". If the OP would like to post the full headers of the MIQ then a complete analysis will be possible. .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Wow - it _is_ the Dark Age again... DATE: 27-May-07 13:56:24 HOST: sverige I just want to say, briefly, that "the Genesis account" continues to be fundamentally [pun intended] misrepresented in these base and literal presentations. The Biblical mythologies are indeed "The Word of God" and are fully supportive, and a beautiful representation, of the facts and science of evolution and paleontology. Some people just can't see beyond their own petty little orbs of mundanity to appreciate it. Yet. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Wow - it _is_ the Dark Age again... DATE: 27-May-07 13:56:24 HOST: sverige I just want to say, briefly, that "the Genesis account" continues to be fundamentally [pun intended] misrepresented in these base and literal presentations. The Biblical mythologies are indeed "The Word of God" and are fully supportive, and a beautiful representation, of the facts and science of evolution and paleontology. Some people just can't see beyond their own petty little orbs of mundanity to appreciate it. Yet. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Wow - it _is_ the Dark Age again... DATE: 27-May-07 18:25:31 HOST: sverige >> The Biblical mythologies are indeed "The Word of God" and are fully >> supportive, and a beautiful representation, of the facts and science of >> evolution and paleontology. > Would you care to show me where the Bible speaks about dinosaurs? ... Andrea, please note that I said "supportive", not "illustrative". I'm not going to ask you for a text which speaks about both dinosaurs and quantum physics. But do notice in the first Chapter of Genesis the evolutionary sequences of life; and dinosaurs would be included as a "living creature". But that would hardly matter to the Creationists who insist that God wiped them all out shortly thereafter, save for those floated away to safety by some drunk [9:21] with a boat who immediately burned half of them upon landing. [Gen.8:20] For quantum physics you can look at the contest between Moses and Aaron with the Pharoh and his sorcerers in the second chapter Exodus, and all the other "tricks" those guys did with their rod before parting the Red Sea for crossing along the bottom thereof. Even then you'd likely be missing the point somewhat :) Thanks for caring, [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Wow - it _is_ the Dark Age again... DATE: 27-May-07 18:25:31 HOST: sverige >> The Biblical mythologies are indeed "The Word of God" and are fully >> supportive, and a beautiful representation, of the facts and science of >> evolution and paleontology. > Would you care to show me where the Bible speaks about dinosaurs? ... Andrea, please note that I said "supportive", not "illustrative". I'm not going to ask you for a text which speaks about both dinosaurs and quantum physics. But do notice in the first Chapter of Genesis the evolutionary sequences of life; and dinosaurs would be included as a "living creature". But that would hardly matter to the Creationists who insist that God wiped them all out shortly thereafter, save for those floated away to safety by some drunk [9:21] with a boat who immediately burned half of them upon landing. [Gen.8:20] For quantum physics you can look at the contest between Moses and Aaron with the Pharoh and his sorcerers in the second chapter Exodus, and all the other "tricks" those guys did with their rod before parting the Red Sea for crossing along the bottom thereof. Even then you'd likely be missing the point somewhat :) Thanks for caring, TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Wow - it _is_ the Dark Age again... DATE: 27-May-07 18:56:55 HOST: sverige Barnacle, the term "Christian" is today about as ambiguous as "liberal". What I find notable about both is the blatant hypocrisy which they expose. The loudest self-proclaimed "Christians" demonstrate almost zero capacity for brotherhood, kindness, peacefulness or other traits exemplefied and mandated by their Lord Jesus Christ who clearly promoted the Ten Commandments as lifestyle requirements. These are the people who invented genocide and lynchings for cryin out loud. Not without overlap, are that group who accuse, with vile and venom, peace and love hippies of weird things like "hatred" for their Presidente or their Flag or their Country. Man, you want to see "hatred" keep an eye on those who accuse others of that particular ailment. The principal difficulty with spirituality and religious text, alluded to by you and by Pedro, is that they don't deal with or within the constraints of time and space. That in and of itself isn't the difficulty. The difficulty is that WE are mostly stuck within time and space. That's why you find so many anti-theology types demanding that spiritual matters be expressed and explained to them in their own limited universe of language and understanding. They want others to describe the non-physical to them with a vocabulary limted to physical understanding. Don't bother. But if you want to hear some real gobbley-gook, ask a "Christian" to explain "blood of the lamb" and "died for our sins" in ANY rational way, and watch their sanity disintegrate. Or maybe they'll just say, you must have unwavering and unquestionable "faith" in their Presidente. In which case you can also just walk away. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Wow - it _is_ the Dark Age again... DATE: 27-May-07 18:56:55 HOST: sverige Barnacle, the term "Christian" is today about as ambiguous as "liberal". What I find notable about both is the blatant hypocrisy which they expose. The loudest self-proclaimed "Christians" demonstrate almost zero capacity for brotherhood, kindness, peacefulness or other traits exemplefied and mandated by their Lord Jesus Christ who clearly promoted the Ten Commandments as lifestyle requirements. These are the people who invented genocide and lynchings for cryin out loud. Not without overlap, are that group who accuse, with vile and venom, peace and love hippies of weird things like "hatred" for their Presidente or their Flag or their Country. Man, you want to see "hatred" keep an eye on those who accuse others of that particular ailment. The principal difficulty with spirituality and religious text, alluded to by you and by Pedro, is that they don't deal with or within the constraints of time and space. That in and of itself isn't the difficulty. The difficulty is that WE are mostly stuck within time and space. That's why you find so many anti-theology types demanding that spiritual matters be expressed and explained to them in their own limited universe of language and understanding. They want others to describe the non-physical to them with a vocabulary limted to physical understanding. Don't bother. But if you want to hear some real gobbley-gook, ask a "Christian" to explain "blood of the lamb" and "died for our sins" in ANY rational way, and watch their sanity disintegrate. Or maybe they'll just say, you must have unwavering and unquestionable "faith" in their Presidente. In which case you can also just walk away. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Wow - it _is_ the Dark Age again... DATE: 28-May-07 02:49:12 HOST: sverige Religion isn't really an aberation; just about every culture at any place on the planet throughout all of recorded history has developed, or found, at least one. It's probably been around longer than science. It's not really in conflict with science. Both are tools men use to help understand their life experiences. It's a mistake of man, not of religion or science, when the wrong tool is used for an application. I have little patience however for folks who discredit that which they don't understand. Men of science and religion do know better than to do that. It's the pretenders who issue forth self-righteous contempt, and have such shallow understanding and deep mis-understanding. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Wow - it _is_ the Dark Age again... DATE: 28-May-07 02:49:12 HOST: sverige Religion isn't really an aberation; just about every culture at any place on the planet throughout all of recorded history has developed, or found, at least one. It's probably been around longer than science. It's not really in conflict with science. Both are tools men use to help understand their life experiences. It's a mistake of man, not of religion or science, when the wrong tool is used for an application. I have little patience however for folks who discredit that which they don't understand. Men of science and religion do know better than to do that. It's the pretenders who issue forth self-righteous contempt, and have such shallow understanding and deep mis-understanding. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. an interesting SDF stat DATE: 26-Sep-07 02:11:55 HOST: sverige $ chklogin -t Results based on mail logs for the past 120 days userid total daily-avg 0.00 rizwanto@sdf.lonestar.org 25006 208.38 b12@sdf.lonestar.org 14441 120.34 ..@sdf.lonestar.org 8888 74.07 dosius@sdf.lonestar.org 8316 69.30 bonemach@sdf.lonestar.org 7701 64.17 tiffany@freeshell.org 5820 48.50 gso@freeshell.org 5596 46.63 joerg@freeshell.org 5355 44.62 jowr@sdf.lonestar.org 5063 42.19 iwork@sdf.lonestar.org 4953 41.27 bloem@sdf.lonestar.org 4935 41.12 smahadev@freeshell.org 4775 39.79 omestre@sdf.lonestar.org 4223 35.19 ramus@freeshell.org 3606 30.05 echo3@sdf.lonestar.org 3590 29.92 baiju@freeshell.org 3554 29.62 anuradha@sdf.lonestar.org 3256 27.13 dizzy@freeshell.org 3206 26.72 csharp@freeshell.org 3097 25.81 ----------------- heh! user '..' [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. an interesting SDF stat DATE: 26-Sep-07 02:11:55 HOST: sverige $ chklogin -t Results based on mail logs for the past 120 days userid total daily-avg 0.00 rizwanto@sdf.lonestar.org 25006 208.38 b12@sdf.lonestar.org 14441 120.34 ..@sdf.lonestar.org 8888 74.07 dosius@sdf.lonestar.org 8316 69.30 bonemach@sdf.lonestar.org 7701 64.17 tiffany@freeshell.org 5820 48.50 gso@freeshell.org 5596 46.63 joerg@freeshell.org 5355 44.62 jowr@sdf.lonestar.org 5063 42.19 iwork@sdf.lonestar.org 4953 41.27 bloem@sdf.lonestar.org 4935 41.12 smahadev@freeshell.org 4775 39.79 omestre@sdf.lonestar.org 4223 35.19 ramus@freeshell.org 3606 30.05 echo3@sdf.lonestar.org 3590 29.92 baiju@freeshell.org 3554 29.62 anuradha@sdf.lonestar.org 3256 27.13 dizzy@freeshell.org 3206 26.72 csharp@freeshell.org 3097 25.81 ----------------- heh! user '..' ..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Classical cryptography help DATE: 28-Jul-07 15:45:28 HOST: sverige "I'm looking for a simple technique I can use to encrypt several sequences of numbers of different lengths with pen and paper. And I want to be able to look at the ciphertext and decrypt it reasonably quickly in my head, or at least with a pen and paper." Restricting my response to dealing with characters in the range 0..9, I offer thinking about a solution which is some clever derivation of ... Number in Question (NIQ) = 876543 As a "key" select a number sequence of any length which you won't forget. [657] ... the length of which, N, is [3] Insert this key, in any sequence of characters, before the NIQ. = 576876543 Consider the value of the Nth inserted character of your key, in this case 6. Insert that many random characters between the key and the NIQ. = 576......876543 7. Consider the value of the 1st inserted character of your key, in this case 5. Append that many more random characters to the end of the NIQ. = 576......876543..... 8. Append any sequence of your key digits again. = 576......876543.....657 9. Pad beginning and end of numeric string with random digits which do not fit the "key search" used to identify the locations of your "key" in the cryptonumber. Things to remember: 1.how it works; and 2.the key Decode: remove leading and trailing digits which don't fit the "key search". read the first key for padding information remove keys and padding optionally reverse/rotate the NIQ (if you did so during encryption) There are a ton of variants to this which should be easy and fun to discover. Mix in and strip non-numeric characters for additional obfuscation. Add an indicator for whether and what amount of rotation or reversal is applied. On and on. I *think*, and am remotely curious to know if, baseball coaches use something like this with their hand signals. avo --- imagination at work here [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Classical cryptography help DATE: 28-Jul-07 15:45:28 HOST: sverige "I'm looking for a simple technique I can use to encrypt several sequences of numbers of different lengths with pen and paper. And I want to be able to look at the ciphertext and decrypt it reasonably quickly in my head, or at least with a pen and paper." Restricting my response to dealing with characters in the range 0..9, I offer thinking about a solution which is some clever derivation of ... Number in Question (NIQ) = 876543 As a "key" select a number sequence of any length which you won't forget. [657] ... the length of which, N, is [3] Insert this key, in any sequence of characters, before the NIQ. = 576876543 Consider the value of the Nth inserted character of your key, in this case 6. Insert that many random characters between the key and the NIQ. = 576......876543 7. Consider the value of the 1st inserted character of your key, in this case 5. Append that many more random characters to the end of the NIQ. = 576......876543..... 8. Append any sequence of your key digits again. = 576......876543.....657 9. Pad beginning and end of numeric string with random digits which do not fit the "key search" used to identify the locations of your "key" in the cryptonumber. Things to remember: 1.how it works; and 2.the key Decode: remove leading and trailing digits which don't fit the "key search". read the first key for padding information remove keys and padding optionally reverse/rotate the NIQ (if you did so during encryption) There are a ton of variants to this which should be easy and fun to discover. Mix in and strip non-numeric characters for additional obfuscation. Add an indicator for whether and what amount of rotation or reversal is applied. On and on. I *think*, and am remotely curious to know if, baseball coaches use something like this with their hand signals. avo --- imagination at work here TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Spam is coming back .( DATE: 28-Mar-07 17:54:01 HOST: sverige The headers should show clues; maybe something about a "delay". Maybe you should check that your greylisting is still active? "Nolisting" (search the REQUEST board this year) has been known to be very effective also; but that, similar to greylisting, requires an admin level implementation. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Spam is coming back .( DATE: 28-Mar-07 17:54:01 HOST: sverige The headers should show clues; maybe something about a "delay". Maybe you should check that your greylisting is still active? "Nolisting" (search the REQUEST board this year) has been known to be very effective also; but that, similar to greylisting, requires an admin level implementation. .......TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. bayes like mailfilter available? DATE: 02-Apr-07 02:47:41 HOST: sverige In support of jboy's comments, I wish to add the following with regard to sparing yourself from spam sent to your email accounts. The very firstest bestest solution is to dispose of email aliaes which receive spam, and implenent another. It's not nearly as ridiculous as folks make it out to be. The second best line of defense is server filtering at the MX which leave the spam on the sending system. After the MX has accepted it, you have to use resource intensive, and less effective, filtering, at the user level. Forwarding it somewhere else for filtering just adds that much extra burden to both the forwarder and the forwardee. Forwarding it to a community shared resource such as SDF, for spam filtering, is wholly inappropriate, in that it burdens others because of your failure to implement steps one and two above. If that's unclear, I'm sure that I and others will be willing to clarify, so feel free to inquire or dialog right here. Thanks for your understanding. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. bayes like mailfilter available? DATE: 02-Apr-07 02:47:41 HOST: sverige In support of jboy's comments, I wish to add the following with regard to sparing yourself from spam sent to your email accounts. The very firstest bestest solution is to dispose of email aliaes which receive spam, and implenent another. It's not nearly as ridiculous as folks make it out to be. The second best line of defense is server filtering at the MX which leave the spam on the sending system. After the MX has accepted it, you have to use resource intensive, and less effective, filtering, at the user level. Forwarding it somewhere else for filtering just adds that much extra burden to both the forwarder and the forwardee. Forwarding it to a community shared resource such as SDF, for spam filtering, is wholly inappropriate, in that it burdens others because of your failure to implement steps one and two above. If that's unclear, I'm sure that I and others will be willing to clarify, so feel free to inquire or dialog right here. Thanks for your understanding. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. screen keeps terminating DATE: 01-Jul-07 21:06:46 HOST: sverige My observation would be to check the uptime not of your host but of 'ol'; even though /tmp is on the local host. In my experience, loss of screen is associated with loss of connection, and short term rejection of connection attempt failures referenced in the GENERAL board about connection attempts not being accepted, and with some experiences of connections being dropped, and with upgrades to the 'ol' host upon which this entire operation depends. It is my understanding from spurious posts by the boss, that upgrades are taking place there, and that the community should regard these brief situations as a good thing requiring money. Thanks for not panicing :) [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. screen keeps terminating DATE: 01-Jul-07 21:06:46 HOST: sverige My observation would be to check the uptime not of your host but of 'ol'; even though /tmp is on the local host. In my experience, loss of screen is associated with loss of connection, and short term rejection of connection attempt failures referenced in the GENERAL board about connection attempts not being accepted, and with some experiences of connections being dropped, and with upgrades to the 'ol' host upon which this entire operation depends. It is my understanding from spurious posts by the boss, that upgrades are taking place there, and that the community should regard these brief situations as a good thing requiring money. Thanks for not panicing :) TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Use of webmail moved my mail? DATE: 01-Mar-07 04:23:26 HOST: sverige I haven't used any webmail here at SDF, but you might find your referenced messages somewhere in your SDF $HOME The /var/mail/ spool ($MAIL) is the deposit point (mailbox) used by the incoming mailhost. Many (most?) mail clients move it from there to an mbox or maildir in their userdir ($HOME). Again, I don't know exactly how its done at SDF however. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Use of webmail moved my mail? DATE: 01-Mar-07 04:23:26 HOST: sverige I haven't used any webmail here at SDF, but you might find your referenced messages somewhere in your SDF $HOME The /var/mail/ spool ($MAIL) is the deposit point (mailbox) used by the incoming mailhost. Many (most?) mail clients move it from there to an mbox or maildir in their userdir ($HOME). Again, I don't know exactly how its done at SDF however. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Domain names DATE: 01-Mar-07 21:52:14 HOST: sverige Since you asked, and I don't know you to be a troll, .. "Is there any way to get a text-file of all the registered domains at say, .com" I doubt it; but please let us know if you find one. "I just want to see what's been registered by grepping some enormous file." I think that using the online whois databases with local client will be far faster; until perhaps you database and index your text file and use a query tool rather than grep; but then this optimization has already been done for you :) "It'd be fun." Really? For, um, how long, do you think it'd be fun? [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Domain names DATE: 01-Mar-07 21:52:14 HOST: sverige Since you asked, and I don't know you to be a troll, .. "Is there any way to get a text-file of all the registered domains at say, .com" I doubt it; but please let us know if you find one. "I just want to see what's been registered by grepping some enormous file." I think that using the online whois databases with local client will be far faster; until perhaps you database and index your text file and use a query tool rather than grep; but then this optimization has already been done for you :) "It'd be fun." Really? For, um, how long, do you think it'd be fun? TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Virus/Proxy server/Message.zip DATE: 02-Dec-06 16:29:22 HOST: sverige It probably didn't come from SDF. Perhaps you could make the original raw message file (with attachment included) available for us to examine. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Virus/Proxy server/Message.zip DATE: 02-Dec-06 16:29:22 HOST: sverige It probably didn't come from SDF. Perhaps you could make the original raw message file (with attachment included) available for us to examine. .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Virus/Proxy server/Message.zip DATE: 03-Dec-06 18:36:03 HOST: sverige interperating the header: Received: from sdf.lonestar.org ([85.187.163.100]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.13.5.20060308/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kB3GpPrH004431 the connecting IP is 85.187.163.100 which is not SDF the HELO/EHLO given was "sdf.lonestar.org" <<-- falsified, a common spammer trick. The "From:" header is similarly, and regularly, trivially forged. OK. So now we know that this did NOT come from SDF; which we knew anyway because we know SDF, but now there's objective evidence. Now, I'll go try to see if I can find a base64 decoder to inspect the .zip .... [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Virus/Proxy server/Message.zip DATE: 03-Dec-06 18:36:03 HOST: sverige interperating the header: Received: from sdf.lonestar.org ([85.187.163.100]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.13.5.20060308/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kB3GpPrH004431 the connecting IP is 85.187.163.100 which is not SDF the HELO/EHLO given was "sdf.lonestar.org" <<-- falsified, a common spammer trick. The "From:" header is similarly, and regularly, trivially forged. OK. So now we know that this did NOT come from SDF; which we knew anyway because we know SDF, but now there's objective evidence. Now, I'll go try to see if I can find a base64 decoder to inspect the .zip .... TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Virus/Proxy server/Message.zip DATE: 03-Dec-06 18:50:11 HOST: sverige $ cat raw_msg |decode-base64 >decoded $ unzip -v decoded Archive: decoded warning [decoded]: 708 extra bytes at beginning or within zipfile (attempting to process anyway) Length Method Size Ratio Date Time CRC-32 Name -------- ------ ------- ----- ---- ---- ------ ---- 28864 Stored 28864 0% 12-03-06 16:51 df868036 text.exe -------- ------- --- ------- 28864 28864 0% 1 file $ unzip decoded Archive: decoded warning [decoded]: 708 extra bytes at beginning or within zipfile (attempting to process anyway) extracting: text.exe $ file text.exe text.exe: MS-DOS executable (EXE), OS/2 or MS Windows but I don't recommend that you run it. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Virus/Proxy server/Message.zip DATE: 03-Dec-06 18:50:11 HOST: sverige $ cat raw_msg |decode-base64 >decoded $ unzip -v decoded Archive: decoded warning [decoded]: 708 extra bytes at beginning or within zipfile (attempting to process anyway) Length Method Size Ratio Date Time CRC-32 Name -------- ------ ------- ----- ---- ---- ------ ---- 28864 Stored 28864 0% 12-03-06 16:51 df868036 text.exe -------- ------- --- ------- 28864 28864 0% 1 file $ unzip decoded Archive: decoded warning [decoded]: 708 extra bytes at beginning or within zipfile (attempting to process anyway) extracting: text.exe $ file text.exe text.exe: MS-DOS executable (EXE), OS/2 or MS Windows but I don't recommend that you run it. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Virus/Proxy server/Message.zip DATE: 05-Dec-06 01:37:05 HOST: sverige Tibor, Prior comments apply to your message as well. Spammer falsified envelope-from, HELO, and header From: It is NOT from SDF [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Virus/Proxy server/Message.zip DATE: 05-Dec-06 01:37:05 HOST: sverige Tibor, Prior comments apply to your message as well. Spammer falsified envelope-from, HELO, and header From: It is NOT from SDF TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. problem with outgoing mail DATE: 03-Nov-06 15:16:35 HOST: sverige By the way, the most common cause of mail gone missing is when the recipient server (not user) applys filtering which accepts mail and then deletes it without delivery. The second most common is probably user filters which inadvertently catch something. That's not to say anything about the experiences already stated here by SDF users. I don't know what happened to those. I'm only mentioning the most probable scenarios. Another possibility might be that the recipient server accepted the mail, and then attempted to bounce it back to SDF, and that the bounce was for some reason rejected by SDF server or user filter. The most least likely possibility is that the SDF mail server just "lost" one message out of every few thousand; but in an nfs glitch maybe that could happen, I don't knoow. I would suggest however that a polite request of smj to check the log for status report, giving him good data about time, recipient, and sender; while realizing that you're asking him to do something for nothing when he gets the chance; might be well received. Now, I wonder if a membership level would be appropriate for receiving mail logs relative to the user, grepped out during logrotate; together with http logs. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. problem with outgoing mail DATE: 03-Nov-06 15:16:35 HOST: sverige By the way, the most common cause of mail gone missing is when the recipient server (not user) applys filtering which accepts mail and then deletes it without delivery. The second most common is probably user filters which inadvertently catch something. That's not to say anything about the experiences already stated here by SDF users. I don't know what happened to those. I'm only mentioning the most probable scenarios. Another possibility might be that the recipient server accepted the mail, and then attempted to bounce it back to SDF, and that the bounce was for some reason rejected by SDF server or user filter. The most least likely possibility is that the SDF mail server just "lost" one message out of every few thousand; but in an nfs glitch maybe that could happen, I don't knoow. I would suggest however that a polite request of smj to check the log for status report, giving him good data about time, recipient, and sender; while realizing that you're asking him to do something for nothing when he gets the chance; might be well received. Now, I wonder if a membership level would be appropriate for receiving mail logs relative to the user, grepped out during logrotate; together with http logs. ..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. .profile and new mail DATE: 05-Nov-06 02:18:10 HOST: sverige man biff [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. .profile and new mail DATE: 05-Nov-06 02:18:10 HOST: sverige man biff TACKER: dkp (David Patton) SUBJECT: .. .profile and new mail DATE: 06-Nov-06 19:45:51 HOST: sdf avoyager - my understanding of biff is that you get notifications for your current session, but not for new messages on login. -dkp [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: dkp (David Patton) SUBJECT: .. .profile and new mail DATE: 06-Nov-06 19:45:51 HOST: sdf avoyager - my understanding of biff is that you get notifications for your current session, but not for new messages on login. -dkp TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Specific greylist question DATE: 05-Dec-06 13:42:28 HOST: sverige Greylisting deferrs the connecting IP. In your example, that'd be your department. If they, your department, make contact with the original sender for any reason, can't be known from here. You'll have to ask them. The chances are that they wouldn't, because they accepted the mail to you, and your local filtering sent it on to SDF, rather than their server relaying it directly; but I don't know the details of how you and they implement the forwarding. In which case, if the department wants to notify someone of the mail not being delivered, it would notify your department account, which should be the sender. You can verify this by examining the email you receive without greylisting. Ignore all header lines in the forwarded mail. Those aren't examined by greylisting. The current header is separated from the message body (which would include the forwarded message) by a blank line. The current header is hidden by most mail client configurations. You can see the raw files of your incoming mail by 'cat $MAIL' or 'cat $MAIL |ls'. SDF would not contact the original sender, or even the department, directly. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Specific greylist question DATE: 05-Dec-06 13:42:28 HOST: sverige Greylisting deferrs the connecting IP. In your example, that'd be your department. If they, your department, make contact with the original sender for any reason, can't be known from here. You'll have to ask them. The chances are that they wouldn't, because they accepted the mail to you, and your local filtering sent it on to SDF, rather than their server relaying it directly; but I don't know the details of how you and they implement the forwarding. In which case, if the department wants to notify someone of the mail not being delivered, it would notify your department account, which should be the sender. You can verify this by examining the email you receive without greylisting. Ignore all header lines in the forwarded mail. Those aren't examined by greylisting. The current header is separated from the message body (which would include the forwarded message) by a blank line. The current header is hidden by most mail client configurations. You can see the raw files of your incoming mail by 'cat $MAIL' or 'cat $MAIL |ls'. SDF would not contact the original sender, or even the department, directly. ..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. greylist and silly servers DATE: 06-Feb-07 21:40:11 HOST: sdf I think you misread the message. Postfix was the sending agent. SDF was the receiving agent, and delivered a temporary (4xx) rather than permanent (5xx) "undeliverable" response code. Nothing really needs to be done. Postfix will resend the message and it will be accepted. RFCs are abundant. For SMTP see ftp://ftp.rfc-editor.org/in-notes/rfc2821.txt [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. greylist and silly servers DATE: 06-Feb-07 21:40:11 HOST: sdf I think you misread the message. Postfix was the sending agent. SDF was the receiving agent, and delivered a temporary (4xx) rather than permanent (5xx) "undeliverable" response code. Nothing really needs to be done. Postfix will resend the message and it will be accepted. RFCs are abundant. For SMTP see ftp://ftp.rfc-editor.org/in-notes/rfc2821.txt .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. "You have mail" notification when inbox is EMPTY? DATE: 07-Jun-07 16:03:26 HOST: sverige jboy, how do you know it's pine? It seems I've seen this as a consequence of [any?] imap client; even when pine wasn't used; and that I don't necessarily see it with pine. ??? [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. "You have mail" notification when inbox is EMPTY? DATE: 07-Jun-07 16:03:26 HOST: sverige jboy, how do you know it's pine? It seems I've seen this as a consequence of [any?] imap client; even when pine wasn't used; and that I don't necessarily see it with pine. ??? ...TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Pager word wrap? DATE: 10-Jan-07 14:38:19 HOST: sverige I've been using text editors for this purpose. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Pager word wrap? DATE: 10-Jan-07 14:38:19 HOST: sverige I've been using text editors for this purpose. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. VPM of my own mail domain? DATE: 10-Jun-07 12:51:12 HOST: sverige It's not so hard to figure out and understand. Really. You're just stuck. Typing 'vhost' will tell you or point to (i.e. VPM) just about everything. To host your domain name, use VHOST. To have multiple email aliases in multiple domains, use VPM. The domains are registered to SDF, but they're bill.beevomit.org unique. I don't think there's another way or membership level by which you can have [the mail for] your personal domain hosted here than VHOST; but if I'm overlooking it, somebody will point it out. Perhaps even yourself. You pay first; then activation tools become available to you. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. VPM of my own mail domain? DATE: 10-Jun-07 12:51:12 HOST: sverige It's not so hard to figure out and understand. Really. You're just stuck. Typing 'vhost' will tell you or point to (i.e. VPM) just about everything. To host your domain name, use VHOST. To have multiple email aliases in multiple domains, use VPM. The domains are registered to SDF, but they're bill.beevomit.org unique. I don't think there's another way or membership level by which you can have [the mail for] your personal domain hosted here than VHOST; but if I'm overlooking it, somebody will point it out. Perhaps even yourself. You pay first; then activation tools become available to you. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Where to send FAQ updates/requests? DATE: 10-Jun-07 12:23:25 HOST: sverige to the REQUESTS board :) seriously [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Where to send FAQ updates/requests? DATE: 10-Jun-07 12:23:25 HOST: sverige to the REQUESTS board :) seriously TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. bboard web interface / other useful reference material poin DATE: 10-Jun-07 12:37:12 HOST: sverige Actually, once you get used to bboard, and to the shell and command line interface (CLI), you may find that access via the web is actually much more cumbersome ... too much mouse .... takes the fingers away from the keyboard where real work gets done :) You might want to browse the web for unix/bsd/linux tutorials however; there's probably several. I tood some notes .... http://avoyager.freeshell.org/SDF_notes.html It looks like vosi's wiki is offline and it's safe and educational to explore the file system Welcome! [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. bboard web interface / other useful reference material poin DATE: 10-Jun-07 12:37:12 HOST: sverige Actually, once you get used to bboard, and to the shell and command line interface (CLI), you may find that access via the web is actually much more cumbersome ... too much mouse .... takes the fingers away from the keyboard where real work gets done :) You might want to browse the web for unix/bsd/linux tutorials however; there's probably several. I tood some notes .... http://avoyager.freeshell.org/SDF_notes.html It looks like vosi's wiki is offline and it's safe and educational to explore the file system Welcome! TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Lost mail, where to look? DATE: 10-Jun-07 12:31:55 HOST: sverige For following mail which is sent out from your SDF account, use 'mail -v' Note that you will, or may, see it connect first to the SDF server ===begin paste=== $ mail -v wife@example.com Subject: test goodbye . EOT wife@example.com... Connecting to [192.94.73.18] via relay... 220 sdf.lonestar.org ESMTP Sendmail 8.14.1/8.13.8; Sun, 10 Jun 2007 12:28:26 GMT >>> EHLO sdf.lonestar.org 250-sdf.lonestar.org Hello user@ukato.freeshell.org [192.94.73.7], pleased to meet you ===end paste=== [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Lost mail, where to look? DATE: 10-Jun-07 12:31:55 HOST: sverige For following mail which is sent out from your SDF account, use 'mail -v' Note that you will, or may, see it connect first to the SDF server ===begin paste=== $ mail -v wife@example.com Subject: test goodbye . EOT wife@example.com... Connecting to [192.94.73.18] via relay... 220 sdf.lonestar.org ESMTP Sendmail 8.14.1/8.13.8; Sun, 10 Jun 2007 12:28:26 GMT >>> EHLO sdf.lonestar.org 250-sdf.lonestar.org Hello user@ukato.freeshell.org [192.94.73.7], pleased to meet you ===end paste=== .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. FAQ update request - sdf networks DATE: 10-Jun-07 23:28:29 HOST: sverige Well, if you can't figure that out you probably don't need to worry about it. Personally, I'm quite weary of all your requests. Nobody else has been so expecting of SDF and its community to respond to and serve them here in years. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. FAQ update request - sdf networks DATE: 10-Jun-07 23:28:29 HOST: sverige Well, if you can't figure that out you probably don't need to worry about it. Personally, I'm quite weary of all your requests. Nobody else has been so expecting of SDF and its community to respond to and serve them here in years. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. FAQ update request - sdf networks DATE: 11-Jun-07 03:22:20 HOST: sverige FWIW, I don't work in the IT industry. I'm much better at HR, and the high energy output of raging manics does wither me early. If you'd like to leap into a new neighborhood and instantly grok all its history and subtle personna, perhaps you could do so more quietly, or with a higher observation:request ratio. But this isn't *my* neighborhood; and I have no authority, or even influence, here; I just reside here, learning patiently, and helping others do the same however I might be able. I gave away the stereo and started listening to the wind blow and the waves wash and the birds tweet about 30 years ago. It's relaxing. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. FAQ update request - sdf networks DATE: 11-Jun-07 03:22:20 HOST: sverige FWIW, I don't work in the IT industry. I'm much better at HR, and the high energy output of raging manics does wither me early. If you'd like to leap into a new neighborhood and instantly grok all its history and subtle personna, perhaps you could do so more quietly, or with a higher observation:request ratio. But this isn't *my* neighborhood; and I have no authority, or even influence, here; I just reside here, learning patiently, and helping others do the same however I might be able. I gave away the stereo and started listening to the wind blow and the waves wash and the birds tweet about 30 years ago. It's relaxing. .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. ksh up arrow history DATE: 11-Jul-07 21:32:28 HOST: sverige According to the man pages for ksh, the command for previous in history list is bound to the up-arrow by default. In the man pages, search for 'bind' and also for 'arrow'. At least this is how it works and looks to this novice. avo --- [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. ksh up arrow history DATE: 11-Jul-07 21:32:28 HOST: sverige According to the man pages for ksh, the command for previous in history list is bound to the up-arrow by default. In the man pages, search for 'bind' and also for 'arrow'. At least this is how it works and looks to this novice. avo --- TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. PPI for serial port hand shakes? DATE: 11-Nov-06 06:08:26 HOST: sverige Nic, There is no handshaking in serial with only one data pin :) Serial uses one pin connection for transmit, another for receive, and others for hardware handshaking. You can use XON/XOFF with a 2-3 pin connection; but for high speeds and quick responses the hardware handshaking across dedicated pins is preferred. Search for "async" libraries. and have a lot of frustrating fun :) - avo [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. PPI for serial port hand shakes? DATE: 11-Nov-06 06:08:26 HOST: sverige Nic, There is no handshaking in serial with only one data pin :) Serial uses one pin connection for transmit, another for receive, and others for hardware handshaking. You can use XON/XOFF with a 2-3 pin connection; but for high speeds and quick responses the hardware handshaking across dedicated pins is preferred. Search for "async" libraries. and have a lot of frustrating fun :) - avo TACKER: selever (Nic Reveles) SUBJECT: .. PPI for serial port hand shakes? DATE: 12-Nov-06 16:48:46 HOST: norge Thank you for the responce, Avoyager. I think I might be able to use my existing set up if I only knew what my serial port was called. I looked online and thought it should be 'sio0' or something similar. Perhaps psm0? $ ls /dev acd0 acpi ad0 ad0s1 ad0s1a ad0s1b ad0s1c ad0s1d ad0s1e ad0s1f ata atkbd0 bpf0 bpsm0 console consolectl ctty cuaa0 cuaia0 cuala0 devctl devstat fd fido geom.ctl io kbd0 klog kmem log lpt0 lpt0.ctl mdctl mem net net1 net2 net3 network nfs4 null pci ppi0 psm0 ptyp0 ptyp1 ptyp2 random stderr stdin stdout sysmouse ttyd0 ttyid0 ttyld0 ttyp0 ttyp1 ttyp2 ttyv0 ttyv1 ttyv2 ttyv3 ttyv4 ttyv5 ttyv6 ttyv7 ttyv8 ttyv9 ttyva ttyvb ttyvc ttyvd ttyve ttyvf urandom usb usb0 usb1 xpt0 zero There is a sio0 listed in 'dmesg', but it's not listed in /dev. sio0: <16550A-compatible COM port> port 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 flags 0x10 on acpi0 sio0: type 16550A So I am a little confused. Does anyone have an answer? Nic [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: selever (Nic Reveles) SUBJECT: .. PPI for serial port hand shakes? DATE: 12-Nov-06 16:48:46 HOST: norge Thank you for the responce, Avoyager. I think I might be able to use my existing set up if I only knew what my serial port was called. I looked online and thought it should be 'sio0' or something similar. Perhaps psm0? $ ls /dev acd0 acpi ad0 ad0s1 ad0s1a ad0s1b ad0s1c ad0s1d ad0s1e ad0s1f ata atkbd0 bpf0 bpsm0 console consolectl ctty cuaa0 cuaia0 cuala0 devctl devstat fd fido geom.ctl io kbd0 klog kmem log lpt0 lpt0.ctl mdctl mem net net1 net2 net3 network nfs4 null pci ppi0 psm0 ptyp0 ptyp1 ptyp2 random stderr stdin stdout sysmouse ttyd0 ttyid0 ttyld0 ttyp0 ttyp1 ttyp2 ttyv0 ttyv1 ttyv2 ttyv3 ttyv4 ttyv5 ttyv6 ttyv7 ttyv8 ttyv9 ttyva ttyvb ttyvc ttyvd ttyve ttyvf urandom usb usb0 usb1 xpt0 zero There is a sio0 listed in 'dmesg', but it's not listed in /dev. sio0: <16550A-compatible COM port> port 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 flags 0x10 on acpi0 sio0: type 16550A So I am a little confused. Does anyone have an answer? Nic TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. PPI for serial port hand shakes? DATE: 12-Nov-06 23:07:59 HOST: sverige ? you may need to create a device, with a driver ? http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Serial-HOWTO.html may be helpful [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. PPI for serial port hand shakes? DATE: 12-Nov-06 23:07:59 HOST: sverige ? you may need to create a device, with a driver ? http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Serial-HOWTO.html may be helpful TACKER: selever (Nic Reveles) SUBJECT: .. PPI for serial port hand shakes? DATE: 13-Nov-06 03:36:13 HOST: norge Thank you again Avoyager. I think my serial port is actually ttyd0. I admit that I am now a bit confused about the serial port. There seems to be a constant 10 volts running through. I measured this with a voltmeter. I tried to turn off all the pins with a quick program I wrote, but the 10V remained. So my question should be: Is it not a trivial task to turn a serial port pin on and off at a user command? I realize now that the serial port streams data unlike the parallel port, but I thought it should still be an easy task of switching out a few line of code. Nic [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: selever (Nic Reveles) SUBJECT: .. PPI for serial port hand shakes? DATE: 13-Nov-06 03:36:13 HOST: norge Thank you again Avoyager. I think my serial port is actually ttyd0. I admit that I am now a bit confused about the serial port. There seems to be a constant 10 volts running through. I measured this with a voltmeter. I tried to turn off all the pins with a quick program I wrote, but the 10V remained. So my question should be: Is it not a trivial task to turn a serial port pin on and off at a user command? I realize now that the serial port streams data unlike the parallel port, but I thought it should still be an easy task of switching out a few line of code. Nic TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. PPI for serial port hand shakes? DATE: 13-Nov-06 21:17:45 HOST: sverige Nic, you're in way over my head. The only way I ever semi-directly altered the line on a pin was via jumpers on a breakout box. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. PPI for serial port hand shakes? DATE: 13-Nov-06 21:17:45 HOST: sverige Nic, you're in way over my head. The only way I ever semi-directly altered the line on a pin was via jumpers on a breakout box. ....TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. sending email to hotmail/msn DATE: 15-Jan-07 05:50:23 HOST: sverige I venture that the problem is not with SDF but with hotmail, and that it cannot be fixed. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. sending email to hotmail/msn DATE: 15-Jan-07 05:50:23 HOST: sverige I venture that the problem is not with SDF but with hotmail, and that it cannot be fixed. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. sending email to hotmail/msn DATE: 15-Jan-07 16:30:14 HOST: sverige It might be useful with regard to hotmail filtering, to ask that your associates consider that SDF isn't likely to be the only over-blocked source of their unreceieved email; and that they can consider SDF not the culprit, but the canary in the coalmine. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. sending email to hotmail/msn DATE: 15-Jan-07 16:30:14 HOST: sverige It might be useful with regard to hotmail filtering, to ask that your associates consider that SDF isn't likely to be the only over-blocked source of their unreceieved email; and that they can consider SDF not the culprit, but the canary in the coalmine. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. how do I enable message logging with irc? DATE: 15-Feb-07 13:20:35 HOST: sverige If "the system goes down" you've likely lost your screen session. If however just the connection goes down, you can reconnect and recover the screen session, with 'screen -r'; use 'screen -ls' to see if the session exists, and what it's state is. If perhance you find it "attached", then you'll need 'screen -x' to attach it again. The IRC client should have a logging feature. If you don't like blackend, try irssi. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. how do I enable message logging with irc? DATE: 15-Feb-07 13:20:35 HOST: sverige If "the system goes down" you've likely lost your screen session. If however just the connection goes down, you can reconnect and recover the screen session, with 'screen -r'; use 'screen -ls' to see if the session exists, and what it's state is. If perhance you find it "attached", then you'll need 'screen -x' to attach it again. The IRC client should have a logging feature. If you don't like blackend, try irssi. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. irc (irssi) email hide DATE: 15-Jan-07 16:35:36 HOST: sverige In affirmation of Phil's suggestion, while what you're seeing looks *almost* exactly like your email address, it is in fact a composite of your username and the rDNS of the IP from which you connect to the IRC host; hence the insertion of "sverige". Changing IRC clients won't change this behavior because the exchange of this information takes place outside of the client software. Therefore, there's nothing which the client software can do about it either, .... .... with the possible exception of the 'host' field in irssi's CONNECT. For servers under your control, you can disable ident (which does have some negative consequences, including that some IRC servers will refuse to let you connect) or run an identd which responds with something which does not compromise your privacy and security. Perhaps there is such a client which smj is willing to implement because it also provides him with the ability to track any abusive behavior emanating from within SDF; and because it is available via pkg-source. (Hint: find it for him if you want it) That's the basic tradeoff with lots of situations, privacy v. accountability. Accomodating both is an important, useful, and appropriate activity which requires some concentrated effort and expenditure of resources (encrypt/decrypt). Thanks for supporting SDF :) [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. irc (irssi) email hide DATE: 15-Jan-07 16:35:36 HOST: sverige In affirmation of Phil's suggestion, while what you're seeing looks *almost* exactly like your email address, it is in fact a composite of your username and the rDNS of the IP from which you connect to the IRC host; hence the insertion of "sverige". Changing IRC clients won't change this behavior because the exchange of this information takes place outside of the client software. Therefore, there's nothing which the client software can do about it either, .... .... with the possible exception of the 'host' field in irssi's CONNECT. For servers under your control, you can disable ident (which does have some negative consequences, including that some IRC servers will refuse to let you connect) or run an identd which responds with something which does not compromise your privacy and security. Perhaps there is such a client which smj is willing to implement because it also provides him with the ability to track any abusive behavior emanating from within SDF; and because it is available via pkg-source. (Hint: find it for him if you want it) That's the basic tradeoff with lots of situations, privacy v. accountability. Accomodating both is an important, useful, and appropriate activity which requires some concentrated effort and expenditure of resources (encrypt/decrypt). Thanks for supporting SDF :) .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Webmail not working, connection dropped DATE: 16-Oct-07 00:00:37 HOST: sverige "Wonder what the problem was?" panic? ;-} [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Webmail not working, connection dropped DATE: 16-Oct-07 00:00:37 HOST: sverige "Wonder what the problem was?" panic? ;-} TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Cron job for a specific year. DATE: 17-Sep-07 19:26:57 HOST: sverige Demonstrating, with gratitude, some things I've learned from the SDF community ... $ hostname; ls -l `locate at |grep /at$` sverige -r-sr-x--- 4 root wheel 38667 Oct 24 2005 /usr/bin/at $ [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Cron job for a specific year. DATE: 17-Sep-07 19:26:57 HOST: sverige Demonstrating, with gratitude, some things I've learned from the SDF community ... $ hostname; ls -l `locate at |grep /at$` sverige -r-sr-x--- 4 root wheel 38667 Oct 24 2005 /usr/bin/at $ ..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. IMAP SSL error DATE: 18-Jun-07 11:59:17 HOST: sverige smj has special powers :) I can be added to the list of currently incompatible, from three different locations, including sverige, ... $ openssl s_client -connect mail.freeshell.org:993 CONNECTED(00000003) 13123:error:140790E5:SSL routines:SSL23_WRITE:ssl handshake failure:s23_lib.c:226: [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. IMAP SSL error DATE: 18-Jun-07 11:59:17 HOST: sverige smj has special powers :) I can be added to the list of currently incompatible, from three different locations, including sverige, ... $ openssl s_client -connect mail.freeshell.org:993 CONNECTED(00000003) 13123:error:140790E5:SSL routines:SSL23_WRITE:ssl handshake failure:s23_lib.c:226: TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. IMAP SSL error DATE: 18-Jun-07 14:19:49 HOST: sverige If clocks go astray, it can cause SSL errors, but that doesn't seem to be the issue here. I'm stumped; maybe theres some other clue in the logs on mail/mx [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. IMAP SSL error DATE: 18-Jun-07 14:19:49 HOST: sverige If clocks go astray, it can cause SSL errors, but that doesn't seem to be the issue here. I'm stumped; maybe theres some other clue in the logs on mail/mx TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. IMAP SSL error DATE: 18-Jun-07 18:51:06 HOST: sverige Andre, TLS is SSL The date stamps of today do indicate new builds. avo --- [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. IMAP SSL error DATE: 18-Jun-07 18:51:06 HOST: sverige Andre, TLS is SSL The date stamps of today do indicate new builds. avo --- TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. IMAP SSL error DATE: 18-Jun-07 19:00:47 HOST: sverige I discover however that an openssl check of :443 looks valid; so maybe this trouble is associated with imap not ssl [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. IMAP SSL error DATE: 18-Jun-07 19:00:47 HOST: sverige I discover however that an openssl check of :443 looks valid; so maybe this trouble is associated with imap not ssl TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. IMAP SSL error DATE: 18-Jun-07 22:30:21 HOST: sverige Now that it's fixed anyway ... Thanks, smj! (what was it?) ... I don't want you characters to believe *_me_* ... do for yourselves the following ... grep SSL /etc/services man openssl .... and search s_client for a quick read lookup TLS on wikipedia or elsewhere run 'openssl s_client -connect mail.freeshell.org:993' on any port which you think uses TLS/SSL starting with :143 post questions here ? avo --- [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. IMAP SSL error DATE: 18-Jun-07 22:30:21 HOST: sverige Now that it's fixed anyway ... Thanks, smj! (what was it?) ... I don't want you characters to believe *_me_* ... do for yourselves the following ... grep SSL /etc/services man openssl .... and search s_client for a quick read lookup TLS on wikipedia or elsewhere run 'openssl s_client -connect mail.freeshell.org:993' on any port which you think uses TLS/SSL starting with :143 post questions here ? avo --- TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. IMAP SSL error DATE: 20-Jun-07 12:43:56 HOST: sverige "This is why there are two ports for tls and ssl." Well, in my /etc/services file ... there are zero (0) ports for TLS and nine (9) ports for SSL Yes, STARTTLS is an implementation of TLS/SSL; isn't restricted to use in any single protocol. "The TLS protocol (formerly known as SSL) ..." --RFC2595 One of the benefits of STARTTLS is that it provides for TLS/SSL connections on the same server port used for unencrypted exchange, enabling policy of "use TLS if available" for both clients and servers using a single host port. There is an encryption alternative, to which I believe you refer, of implementing mail protocols "over SSL" (Postfix refers to this as smtpd_tls_wrappermode) which would require listening on a separate port, probably those standardized in /etc/services and STARTTLS can be used on the standard :25 :110 :143 ports STARTTLS won't work on the :465 :995 :993 ports if they are used by an "over SSL" application, unless that application was also STARTTLS enabled, and the client was created to use STARTTLS inside of an already existing SSL exchange. With STARTTLS, the server responds without encryption, and offers it if available. With "over-SSL", the host responds with an SSL dialog. Of course, either encryption method must be supported by both the client and the server. TLS == SSL, STARTTLS != $protocol-over-SSL STARTTLS should work on "normal" ports :25 :110 :143 "over-SSL" will not which is exactly what Andre discovered And it all works now! Thanks, Stephen. avo --- [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. IMAP SSL error DATE: 20-Jun-07 12:43:56 HOST: sverige "This is why there are two ports for tls and ssl." Well, in my /etc/services file ... there are zero (0) ports for TLS and nine (9) ports for SSL Yes, STARTTLS is an implementation of TLS/SSL; isn't restricted to use in any single protocol. "The TLS protocol (formerly known as SSL) ..." --RFC2595 One of the benefits of STARTTLS is that it provides for TLS/SSL connections on the same server port used for unencrypted exchange, enabling policy of "use TLS if available" for both clients and servers using a single host port. There is an encryption alternative, to which I believe you refer, of implementing mail protocols "over SSL" (Postfix refers to this as smtpd_tls_wrappermode) which would require listening on a separate port, probably those standardized in /etc/services and STARTTLS can be used on the standard :25 :110 :143 ports STARTTLS won't work on the :465 :995 :993 ports if they are used by an "over SSL" application, unless that application was also STARTTLS enabled, and the client was created to use STARTTLS inside of an already existing SSL exchange. With STARTTLS, the server responds without encryption, and offers it if available. With "over-SSL", the host responds with an SSL dialog. Of course, either encryption method must be supported by both the client and the server. TLS == SSL, STARTTLS != $protocol-over-SSL STARTTLS should work on "normal" ports :25 :110 :143 "over-SSL" will not which is exactly what Andre discovered And it all works now! Thanks, Stephen. avo --- ..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Deleted File Recovery DATE: 18-Jul-07 20:03:51 HOST: sverige That worked perfectly, Sean; thank you very much!! relatedly: very nice tool: http://www.dfsee.com/ avo --- [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Deleted File Recovery DATE: 18-Jul-07 20:03:51 HOST: sverige That worked perfectly, Sean; thank you very much!! relatedly: very nice tool: http://www.dfsee.com/ avo --- TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. pine Shared object "libc-client.so.4" not found DATE: 18-Jun-07 14:41:21 HOST: sverige This could be due to smj rebuilding some things associated with the SSL troubles. Is there still both 'spine' and a 'dpine' versions of pine you can try in the meanwhile? [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. pine Shared object "libc-client.so.4" not found DATE: 18-Jun-07 14:41:21 HOST: sverige This could be due to smj rebuilding some things associated with the SSL troubles. Is there still both 'spine' and a 'dpine' versions of pine you can try in the meanwhile? .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Yet Another Mkvpm Issue (YAMI) DATE: 18-Oct-06 12:00:32 HOST: sverige Curtis, That's an interesting use of the term "phished". Look in ~/vmail/.pw You should see a line for smtpauth= and a line for each alias. Run 'mkvpm' which will display Your VPM Configuration. See how they're the same? Make a backup of ~/vmail/.pw and edit it to suit, i.e. remove a wildcard line if that's how it's done (I've never used it). NOPE.! That's not how it's done at all; though I'll leave it here for you. Check for the presence of ~/vmail/.wildcard which may signal the wildcarding operation. Remove it if unwanted. For UNIX training event ... less `which mkvpm` Hopefully this was more helpful than confusing. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Yet Another Mkvpm Issue (YAMI) DATE: 18-Oct-06 12:00:32 HOST: sverige Curtis, That's an interesting use of the term "phished". Look in ~/vmail/.pw You should see a line for smtpauth= and a line for each alias. Run 'mkvpm' which will display Your VPM Configuration. See how they're the same? Make a backup of ~/vmail/.pw and edit it to suit, i.e. remove a wildcard line if that's how it's done (I've never used it). NOPE.! That's not how it's done at all; though I'll leave it here for you. Check for the presence of ~/vmail/.wildcard which may signal the wildcarding operation. Remove it if unwanted. For UNIX training event ... less `which mkvpm` Hopefully this was more helpful than confusing. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Oil Cooling DATE: 20-Feb-07 05:08:25 HOST: sverige I'm not recalling where to verify, but it seems I've seen a case which was oil tight and oil filled; built not just to be unique and interesting (very attractive clear case with internal lighting), and cool; but also quiet. Possibly it was standard shelf cooking/vegetable oil. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Oil Cooling DATE: 20-Feb-07 05:08:25 HOST: sverige I'm not recalling where to verify, but it seems I've seen a case which was oil tight and oil filled; built not just to be unique and interesting (very attractive clear case with internal lighting), and cool; but also quiet. Possibly it was standard shelf cooking/vegetable oil. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. crypt DATE: 19-May-07 16:14:51 HOST: sverige $ apropos crypt |grep \(1\) $ man openssl [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. crypt DATE: 19-May-07 16:14:51 HOST: sverige $ apropos crypt |grep \(1\) $ man openssl TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. sundry difficulties -- jstar, sdf newsgroups DATE: 19-Oct-07 14:57:11 HOST: sverige " 2. jstar joe is acting funny, it adds "OOPS" es to lines and words." This plagues me also. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. sundry difficulties -- jstar, sdf newsgroups DATE: 19-Oct-07 14:57:11 HOST: sverige " 2. jstar joe is acting funny, it adds "OOPS" es to lines and words." This plagues me also. ..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. spam sent to inexistent user@domain and greylist DATE: 20-Oct-06 13:43:03 HOST: sverige Maybe, .... the domain is registered by you, hosted (DNS) by SDF, with MX records indicating mail should come to SDF, .... , and .... the mail needs a place to go, eh? If so, try modifying the MX records in your DNS in order to prevent mail to that domain from being sent to SDF. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. spam sent to inexistent user@domain and greylist DATE: 20-Oct-06 13:43:03 HOST: sverige Maybe, .... the domain is registered by you, hosted (DNS) by SDF, with MX records indicating mail should come to SDF, .... , and .... the mail needs a place to go, eh? If so, try modifying the MX records in your DNS in order to prevent mail to that domain from being sent to SDF. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Two ethernet ports DATE: 20-Oct-07 22:48:19 HOST: sverige "Two ethernet ports" equates [in my experience] to two ethernet cards in the same box. Each one is/requires a different "network interface" and different IPs, easier if different netblocks; ref. "ifconfig" In my use .... ifconfig lo 127.0.0.1 ifconfig lan0 192.168.1.7 netmask 255.255.255.0 mtu 1500 ifconfig lan1 192.168.0.9 netmask 255.255.255.0 mtu 1492 alias lan0 connects by standard cat5 to a switch shared with the rest of the local network lan1 connects by standard cat5 to a DSL modem Enabling local hosts on lan0 to communicate with remote hosts on lan1 is accoumplished by "routing" of 192.168 to 192.168.0.9 and establishing a default route to the public IP established by the pppoe/dhcp connection process. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Two ethernet ports DATE: 20-Oct-07 22:48:19 HOST: sverige "Two ethernet ports" equates [in my experience] to two ethernet cards in the same box. Each one is/requires a different "network interface" and different IPs, easier if different netblocks; ref. "ifconfig" In my use .... ifconfig lo 127.0.0.1 ifconfig lan0 192.168.1.7 netmask 255.255.255.0 mtu 1500 ifconfig lan1 192.168.0.9 netmask 255.255.255.0 mtu 1492 alias lan0 connects by standard cat5 to a switch shared with the rest of the local network lan1 connects by standard cat5 to a DSL modem Enabling local hosts on lan0 to communicate with remote hosts on lan1 is accoumplished by "routing" of 192.168 to 192.168.0.9 and establishing a default route to the public IP established by the pppoe/dhcp connection process. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Postfix Problems.. DATE: 22-Jul-07 00:48:50 HOST: sverige I affirm Edward's reply. The error message is that smtpd_recipient_restrictions is listed in main.cf but doesn't have any ... whatever they're called??? ... declarations?? Here's mine currently: Any line below with a character other than # in the first column was wrapped here, not in the config file. Point being. smtpd_recipient_restrictions needs to be a list of things, not empty. smtpd_recipient_restrictions = permit_mynetworks reject_unlisted_recipient reject_unauth_destination reject_non_fqdn_recipient reject_unknown_recipient_domain reject_rbl_client zen.spamhaus.org warn_if_reject reject_rbl_client l2.apews.dnsbl.uceprotect.net warn_if_reject reject_rbl_client bl.spamcop.net check_client_access hash:/etc/postfix/access/client_access warn_if_reject reject_unknown_client check_policy_service inet:127.0.0.1:60000 smtpd_data_restrictions = reject_unauth_pipelining permit (Note: prior client, helo, and sender restrictions, if any, not shown here. avo --- [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Postfix Problems.. DATE: 22-Jul-07 00:48:50 HOST: sverige I affirm Edward's reply. The error message is that smtpd_recipient_restrictions is listed in main.cf but doesn't have any ... whatever they're called??? ... declarations?? Here's mine currently: Any line below with a character other than # in the first column was wrapped here, not in the config file. Point being. smtpd_recipient_restrictions needs to be a list of things, not empty. smtpd_recipient_restrictions = permit_mynetworks reject_unlisted_recipient reject_unauth_destination reject_non_fqdn_recipient reject_unknown_recipient_domain reject_rbl_client zen.spamhaus.org warn_if_reject reject_rbl_client l2.apews.dnsbl.uceprotect.net warn_if_reject reject_rbl_client bl.spamcop.net check_client_access hash:/etc/postfix/access/client_access warn_if_reject reject_unknown_client check_policy_service inet:127.0.0.1:60000 smtpd_data_restrictions = reject_unauth_pipelining permit (Note: prior client, helo, and sender restrictions, if any, not shown here. avo --- TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Have I been hacked? DATE: 21-Jun-07 03:39:32 HOST: sverige mgmonza, here's what I recommend to do; you can probably use the suspect system to do it on. Do NOT do this as root or other priviledged user. go to command line in location of the downloaded .zip It was a mistake to use the GUI unzipper, whatever that may really be. (herein CLI = Command Line Interface (aka "shell")) Use Info-ZIP's CLI tool, 'unzip -v' to view the contents and 'unzip -t' to test the component files. Study this information very carefully to be certain that you know where files are being extracted to. If anyplace other then the current directory (and below), be very concerned, but keep going. Don't overlook anything. In addition to file locations, look at ownerships and permissions. Note which are executable, and by whom. This process will show whether or not new directories are to be unzipped, and what their names are. If you're still comfortable going forward, go ahead and extract to disk using the CLI tool. Install the 'file' package/tool and use that to report the filetype of the extracted files. Scan them with AVG from grisoft.com In short, use the CLI to exaamine, not to execute, the original zip and its extracted files. If this doesn't make sense to you, or you just don't want to do it, then if you're willing, place the .zip someplace where your friends here at SDF can get at it. I likely won't be the only one willing to examine this thing for you. avo --- [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Have I been hacked? DATE: 21-Jun-07 03:39:32 HOST: sverige mgmonza, here's what I recommend to do; you can probably use the suspect system to do it on. Do NOT do this as root or other priviledged user. go to command line in location of the downloaded .zip It was a mistake to use the GUI unzipper, whatever that may really be. (herein CLI = Command Line Interface (aka "shell")) Use Info-ZIP's CLI tool, 'unzip -v' to view the contents and 'unzip -t' to test the component files. Study this information very carefully to be certain that you know where files are being extracted to. If anyplace other then the current directory (and below), be very concerned, but keep going. Don't overlook anything. In addition to file locations, look at ownerships and permissions. Note which are executable, and by whom. This process will show whether or not new directories are to be unzipped, and what their names are. If you're still comfortable going forward, go ahead and extract to disk using the CLI tool. Install the 'file' package/tool and use that to report the filetype of the extracted files. Scan them with AVG from grisoft.com In short, use the CLI to exaamine, not to execute, the original zip and its extracted files. If this doesn't make sense to you, or you just don't want to do it, then if you're willing, place the .zip someplace where your friends here at SDF can get at it. I likely won't be the only one willing to examine this thing for you. avo --- .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. can i change the default mail sender? DATE: 22-Jun-07 02:49:12 HOST: sverige With Pine you can also set the From: as well as the Reply-To: to anything you wish; so I suppose that there is also a way to do it in the mutt configuration as well. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. can i change the default mail sender? DATE: 22-Jun-07 02:49:12 HOST: sverige With Pine you can also set the From: as well as the Reply-To: to anything you wish; so I suppose that there is also a way to do it in the mutt configuration as well. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. can i change the default mail sender? DATE: 22-Jun-07 18:28:06 HOST: sverige jbaber, Those are all valid answers, and valid header lines. They don't have to be the same value. Return-path is the envelope sender; From is the message sender; Reply-to is an alternate address specified by sender. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. can i change the default mail sender? DATE: 22-Jun-07 18:28:06 HOST: sverige jbaber, Those are all valid answers, and valid header lines. They don't have to be the same value. Return-path is the envelope sender; From is the message sender; Reply-to is an alternate address specified by sender. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. rsync over scp DATE: 21-May-07 20:35:08 HOST: sverige It's worth a try. "-e ssh " works great. I haven't tried, or thought of, scp with rsync. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. rsync over scp DATE: 21-May-07 20:35:08 HOST: sverige It's worth a try. "-e ssh " works great. I haven't tried, or thought of, scp with rsync. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. greylist help DATE: 21-Nov-06 20:51:46 HOST: sverige One question arises of what happens to listings in 'greylist -g' ? At some point in time they're going to just expire; and I don't know, and haven't measured, when. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. greylist help DATE: 21-Nov-06 20:51:46 HOST: sverige One question arises of what happens to listings in 'greylist -g' ? At some point in time they're going to just expire; and I don't know, and haven't measured, when. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. greylist help DATE: 21-Nov-06 21:24:55 HOST: sverige I don't know really. The theory behind greylisting is that spamware will not make a second attempt, so the greylisted system (tuple) will have to expire sometime, hopefully not before a resend is actually attempted. I have seen some mail servers not make a second resend attempt for several days, sad to say. Also, the greylist record may be removed after the mail has been resent and accepted; which wouldn't be good for a conversation because their second message would also be held up, until an auto-whitelisting (or manual whitelisting) took effect. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. greylist help DATE: 21-Nov-06 21:24:55 HOST: sverige I don't know really. The theory behind greylisting is that spamware will not make a second attempt, so the greylisted system (tuple) will have to expire sometime, hopefully not before a resend is actually attempted. I have seen some mail servers not make a second resend attempt for several days, sad to say. Also, the greylist record may be removed after the mail has been resent and accepted; which wouldn't be good for a conversation because their second message would also be held up, until an auto-whitelisting (or manual whitelisting) took effect. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. greylist help DATE: 21-Nov-06 21:46:35 HOST: sverige Is the sender in the greylist -wv ? whitelist? That'd be a reasonable place for the listing to go after the greylist -g waitlist. From there it'd expire after some interval. (and conversations would be easier). I have a test started now. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. greylist help DATE: 21-Nov-06 21:46:35 HOST: sverige Is the sender in the greylist -wv ? whitelist? That'd be a reasonable place for the listing to go after the greylist -g waitlist. From there it'd expire after some interval. (and conversations would be easier). I have a test started now. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. greylist help DATE: 21-Nov-06 22:03:29 HOST: sverige test cancelled because nothing is appearing in 'greylist -gv' prior to subsequent delivery success, or in 'greylist -wv' after. Those tools may not be working properly at present. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. greylist help DATE: 21-Nov-06 22:03:29 HOST: sverige test cancelled because nothing is appearing in 'greylist -gv' prior to subsequent delivery success, or in 'greylist -wv' after. Those tools may not be working properly at present. TACKER: mrbigjas (James Andrews) SUBJECT: .. greylist help DATE: 22-Nov-06 03:50:38 HOST: sverige well anyway, thanks, avoyager. i still think that once the manual whitelists (or automatic whitelists based on sent mail or something) are implemented, it's a pretty good system for the moment--until the spammers catch up to it, at which folks will have to figure out something else... [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: mrbigjas (James Andrews) SUBJECT: .. greylist help DATE: 22-Nov-06 03:50:38 HOST: sverige well anyway, thanks, avoyager. i still think that once the manual whitelists (or automatic whitelists based on sent mail or something) are implemented, it's a pretty good system for the moment--until the spammers catch up to it, at which folks will have to figure out something else... .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. How to use pine with POP3-protocol DATE: 23-May-07 01:50:31 HOST: sverige Pine can do POP3. I don't have time to walk you through it right now, but in the config look for Incoming-folders. Here's my working example: name1 "#move {pophost:port/pop3/notls/user=alias@sdf_id.freeshell.org}INBOX name2" (the above on one line) for your values of name1, pophost:port, alias, sdf_id, name2 Hell, you can even use it for a primary inbox ... inbox-path={127.0.0.1:110/pop3/user=postmaster}INBOX [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. How to use pine with POP3-protocol DATE: 23-May-07 01:50:31 HOST: sverige Pine can do POP3. I don't have time to walk you through it right now, but in the config look for Incoming-folders. Here's my working example: name1 "#move {pophost:port/pop3/notls/user=alias@sdf_id.freeshell.org}INBOX name2" (the above on one line) for your values of name1, pophost:port, alias, sdf_id, name2 Hell, you can even use it for a primary inbox ... inbox-path={127.0.0.1:110/pop3/user=postmaster}INBOX TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. How to use pine with POP3-protocol DATE: 23-May-07 19:09:19 HOST: sverige I just went through the setup here, and have a couple more tips ... 1. need to set enable-incoming-folders in the config. and restart pine. 2. from the new Incoming Folders menu/folder under "Folder List" in the main menu, dd a new incoming folder .... host for VPN and VHOST mail: mail.freeshell.org/pop3/notls/user=alias@SDF_id.freeshell.org remote folder: INBOX [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. How to use pine with POP3-protocol DATE: 23-May-07 19:09:19 HOST: sverige I just went through the setup here, and have a couple more tips ... 1. need to set enable-incoming-folders in the config. and restart pine. 2. from the new Incoming Folders menu/folder under "Folder List" in the main menu, dd a new incoming folder .... host for VPN and VHOST mail: mail.freeshell.org/pop3/notls/user=alias@SDF_id.freeshell.org remote folder: INBOX TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. How to use pine with POP3-protocol DATE: 25-May-07 12:16:09 HOST: sverige Excuse me. What "kuldge" for pine? As I showed in detail here, it is a very normal configuration for pine to retrieve mail via POP3. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. How to use pine with POP3-protocol DATE: 25-May-07 12:16:09 HOST: sverige Excuse me. What "kuldge" for pine? As I showed in detail here, it is a very normal configuration for pine to retrieve mail via POP3. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Using old DNS record for a website DATE: 22-Nov-06 16:42:45 HOST: sverige I think the [/etc/]HOSTS file is supposed to do this well, once you get your resolver to look at it before going to DNS. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Using old DNS record for a website DATE: 22-Nov-06 16:42:45 HOST: sverige I think the [/etc/]HOSTS file is supposed to do this well, once you get your resolver to look at it before going to DNS. ..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Emails to mchsi.com blocked? DATE: 24-Jun-07 04:27:10 HOST: sverige I think you, or your recipient, should take the matter up with their server admin. SDF is not listed per http://openrbl.org/client/#192.94.73.19 or http://moensted.dk/spam/?addr=192.94.73.19&Submit=Submit I can't imagine what smj can do about their blocking, which appears to be a personal blocklist. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Emails to mchsi.com blocked? DATE: 24-Jun-07 04:27:10 HOST: sverige I think you, or your recipient, should take the matter up with their server admin. SDF is not listed per http://openrbl.org/client/#192.94.73.19 or http://moensted.dk/spam/?addr=192.94.73.19&Submit=Submit I can't imagine what smj can do about their blocking, which appears to be a personal blocklist. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Spam in my mail box -- HELP!! DATE: 30-Mar-07 13:16:53 HOST: sverige greylisting.org [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Spam in my mail box -- HELP!! DATE: 30-Mar-07 13:16:53 HOST: sverige greylisting.org .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Lost Email DATE: 25-Oct-06 16:57:05 HOST: sverige David, "I sent these emails from citigroup.com ..." OK. "so I am thinking that their server probably is working correctly." No. The conclusion does not follow. In fact, the evidence (that one mail was not yet resent) is that their mail servers are NOT working correctly, and are still holding one of your mails in their queue. On the other hand, there are a great many things which can, and do, go wrong with email. Greylisting is not one of them. It does not lose or discard mail. It is just one of several already noted legitimate and common reasons why receiving servers tell sending servers to "try again later". But if you think that wearing a hat will keep the volcano from erupting, go for it. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Lost Email DATE: 25-Oct-06 16:57:05 HOST: sverige David, "I sent these emails from citigroup.com ..." OK. "so I am thinking that their server probably is working correctly." No. The conclusion does not follow. In fact, the evidence (that one mail was not yet resent) is that their mail servers are NOT working correctly, and are still holding one of your mails in their queue. On the other hand, there are a great many things which can, and do, go wrong with email. Greylisting is not one of them. It does not lose or discard mail. It is just one of several already noted legitimate and common reasons why receiving servers tell sending servers to "try again later". But if you think that wearing a hat will keep the volcano from erupting, go for it. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. all irc clients scroll 1/2 screen DATE: 27-Feb-07 04:24:21 HOST: sverige It's configurable in irssi. I use scroll_page_count = /.8 which scrolls 8/10ths of the page [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. all irc clients scroll 1/2 screen DATE: 27-Feb-07 04:24:21 HOST: sverige It's configurable in irssi. I use scroll_page_count = /.8 which scrolls 8/10ths of the page .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Key-based authentication and SSH DATE: 11-Jun-07 10:25:23 HOST: sverige Hi. The SDF Tutorial on this is primarily for Putty on MS, it probably describes the need to store the client key in the host's authorized_keys file. For the CLI tools, the client configuration needs to know that you wish to use key. Try 'HostbasedAuthentication yes' and maybe also 'PasswordAuthentication no' ref. man ssh ssh-config(5) I know it to work here. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Key-based authentication and SSH DATE: 11-Jun-07 10:25:23 HOST: sverige Hi. The SDF Tutorial on this is primarily for Putty on MS, it probably describes the need to store the client key in the host's authorized_keys file. For the CLI tools, the client configuration needs to know that you wish to use key. Try 'HostbasedAuthentication yes' and maybe also 'PasswordAuthentication no' ref. man ssh ssh-config(5) I know it to work here. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. accessing sdf without ssh DATE: 27-May-07 19:16:57 HOST: sverige MetaARPA can use SSH to port 443 on sverige which will work if by "disabled ssh" you mean they block outbound connections to port 22. I don't know whether or not ARPA members have access to an alternate port. Check the FAQ etc. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. accessing sdf without ssh DATE: 27-May-07 19:16:57 HOST: sverige MetaARPA can use SSH to port 443 on sverige which will work if by "disabled ssh" you mean they block outbound connections to port 22. I don't know whether or not ARPA members have access to an alternate port. Check the FAQ etc. ...TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. sdf web access logging DATE: 29-Nov-06 17:44:13 HOST: sverige I echo this request to restart httpd logging on 'sdf'. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. sdf web access logging DATE: 29-Nov-06 17:44:13 HOST: sverige I echo this request to restart httpd logging on 'sdf'. ..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. dammit DATE: 14-Jun-07 04:39:02 HOST: sverige Maybe the part about not using the Lord's name in vain is that we shouldn't be blaming Him for our personal miseries or natural disasters or disease, and other similarly irresponsible suggestions. ? [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. dammit DATE: 14-Jun-07 04:39:02 HOST: sverige Maybe the part about not using the Lord's name in vain is that we shouldn't be blaming Him for our personal miseries or natural disasters or disease, and other similarly irresponsible suggestions. ? .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. History of Internet DATE: 19-Apr-07 02:01:47 HOST: sverige Zombo.com is 2nd to last. I like the last: "Progress: Since its inception almost 30 years ago, the internet has been transformed from a primitive device for sharing thoughts and ideas, into a massive network where people pay to connect and read advertisements they don't want, while calling each other 'asshats'." It reminds me of The NON [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. History of Internet DATE: 19-Apr-07 02:01:47 HOST: sverige Zombo.com is 2nd to last. I like the last: "Progress: Since its inception almost 30 years ago, the internet has been transformed from a primitive device for sharing thoughts and ideas, into a massive network where people pay to connect and read advertisements they don't want, while calling each other 'asshats'." It reminds me of The NON TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. History of Internet DATE: 19-Apr-07 12:44:38 HOST: sverige not Yet :( [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. History of Internet DATE: 19-Apr-07 12:44:38 HOST: sverige not Yet :( .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Not OK DATE: 13-Apr-07 18:30:59 HOST: sverige I think they're *supposed_to* be annoying. They used to be called "shock jockeys". Now i think it's known as "raunch radio". Bill O'Reilly fits the profile. Blitzer and Hannity are just psychotics with soap boxes. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Not OK DATE: 13-Apr-07 18:30:59 HOST: sverige I think they're *supposed_to* be annoying. They used to be called "shock jockeys". Now i think it's known as "raunch radio". Bill O'Reilly fits the profile. Blitzer and Hannity are just psychotics with soap boxes. ...TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. what linux distribution are you using ? DATE: 07-Sep-07 02:28:32 HOST: sverige "Apparently I'm the only one using Mandriva here" That's OK. I'm the only one using OS/2 [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. what linux distribution are you using ? DATE: 07-Sep-07 02:28:32 HOST: sverige "Apparently I'm the only one using Mandriva here" That's OK. I'm the only one using OS/2 TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. what linux distribution are you using ? DATE: 07-Sep-07 17:07:13 HOST: sverige Fred, "You're not the only maverick around here." .... No, of course not :) "I was also using OS/2. But it became quite unwieldy using it with [Microsoft Windows/] Me". .... Well, I think "ME" has been resoundly renounced within a month or two of release :) .... Maybe also you were using the "red spline" rather than the "blue spine" version for which installing a Windows component was optional. "you sure can't readily do two or more programs simultaneously in Windows as you can in Linux." .... even now it seems. Even DOS with DesqView did better. Linux however, by any distro, is even better :) [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. what linux distribution are you using ? DATE: 07-Sep-07 17:07:13 HOST: sverige Fred, "You're not the only maverick around here." .... No, of course not :) "I was also using OS/2. But it became quite unwieldy using it with [Microsoft Windows/] Me". .... Well, I think "ME" has been resoundly renounced within a month or two of release :) .... Maybe also you were using the "red spline" rather than the "blue spine" version for which installing a Windows component was optional. "you sure can't readily do two or more programs simultaneously in Windows as you can in Linux." .... even now it seems. Even DOS with DesqView did better. Linux however, by any distro, is even better :) ...TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Making the switch DATE: 18-Mar-07 02:59:18 HOST: sverige Long Live Fluxbox [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Making the switch DATE: 18-Mar-07 02:59:18 HOST: sverige Long Live Fluxbox TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Making the switch DATE: 29-Mar-07 00:34:53 HOST: sverige cor, my wife hates the computer so much that she makes me print out her emails for her, and even that only once a month :) I put my dad on a new w2k system (upgrade from w95) with a passwordless login id and restricted privs (incl. install nothing). I finally gave him the Admin password with clear instructions as to under which limited conditions he should use it, but he forgets the password :) I am happy to ask however for a desktop recommendation which the high-schoolers will enjoy. They don't use much other than browser, AIM, and OpenOffice. Oh, wrong. They download cameras, upload ipods, burn some CDs, and run some java apps like jPhoto. Linux does all that ? [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Making the switch DATE: 29-Mar-07 00:34:53 HOST: sverige cor, my wife hates the computer so much that she makes me print out her emails for her, and even that only once a month :) I put my dad on a new w2k system (upgrade from w95) with a passwordless login id and restricted privs (incl. install nothing). I finally gave him the Admin password with clear instructions as to under which limited conditions he should use it, but he forgets the password :) I am happy to ask however for a desktop recommendation which the high-schoolers will enjoy. They don't use much other than browser, AIM, and OpenOffice. Oh, wrong. They download cameras, upload ipods, burn some CDs, and run some java apps like jPhoto. Linux does all that ? TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. What sets Ubuntu apart from Debian? DATE: 20-Jun-07 13:12:31 HOST: sverige brendan, I settled on Debian and haven't been inspired to change; but I am willing, and I did recently look specifically into changing to Ubuntu. Noting that Ubuntu is "based upon" Debian, it seems to still use the same package management tools. Objectively, Ubuntu provides packages of applications which are at a more recent/current version than those in the Debian packages. Subjectively, in the words of one respondent, "Ubuntu is Debian for humans." I did install Ubuntu just a couple months ago, CLI only, long enough to discover that what that person meant differences in the user interface which inspired me to just remove it concluding that I'd stay with Debian. You might converse with your boss about how he/she may or may not even know the difference after they log into your Ubuntu. avo --- [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. What sets Ubuntu apart from Debian? DATE: 20-Jun-07 13:12:31 HOST: sverige brendan, I settled on Debian and haven't been inspired to change; but I am willing, and I did recently look specifically into changing to Ubuntu. Noting that Ubuntu is "based upon" Debian, it seems to still use the same package management tools. Objectively, Ubuntu provides packages of applications which are at a more recent/current version than those in the Debian packages. Subjectively, in the words of one respondent, "Ubuntu is Debian for humans." I did install Ubuntu just a couple months ago, CLI only, long enough to discover that what that person meant differences in the user interface which inspired me to just remove it concluding that I'd stay with Debian. You might converse with your boss about how he/she may or may not even know the difference after they log into your Ubuntu. avo --- .....TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Integer power of a modulo N DATE: 02-Sep-07 10:15:33 HOST: otaku Wouldn't "power of a modulo" be different from modulo of "power of a dividend" ? [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Integer power of a modulo N DATE: 02-Sep-07 10:15:33 HOST: otaku Wouldn't "power of a modulo" be different from modulo of "power of a dividend" ? ..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. capitalism DATE: 11-Oct-07 15:09:51 HOST: sverige Do people who talk about $ANYTHING actually "know what it is"? [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. capitalism DATE: 11-Oct-07 15:09:51 HOST: sverige Do people who talk about $ANYTHING actually "know what it is"? TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Will the human race last another 20 years? DATE: 10-Oct-07 02:25:36 HOST: sverige Absolutely!! Many other things won't, but the species is clearly not more than half evolved, and demonstrated to be incredibly imaginative and adaptive. Relatedly, I'm trusting that the rest of the eco-system biosphere will be as functional as the immune system. The current plague of unsustainable "Western" capitalism, having already sacrificed its last vestiges of integrity to its open market financial services deity, is about to follow the Huns, Barbarians, Romans, and Black Death into the annals of antiquity however; and that will be The Good Thing. Cheers Jasper, avo --- since you asked [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Will the human race last another 20 years? DATE: 10-Oct-07 02:25:36 HOST: sverige Absolutely!! Many other things won't, but the species is clearly not more than half evolved, and demonstrated to be incredibly imaginative and adaptive. Relatedly, I'm trusting that the rest of the eco-system biosphere will be as functional as the immune system. The current plague of unsustainable "Western" capitalism, having already sacrificed its last vestiges of integrity to its open market financial services deity, is about to follow the Huns, Barbarians, Romans, and Black Death into the annals of antiquity however; and that will be The Good Thing. Cheers Jasper, avo --- since you asked TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Will the human race last another 20 years? DATE: 10-Oct-07 21:50:54 HOST: sverige The prior poster made good observations about the stupidities of market capitalism, but why then join the idiots who think that the only alternative is what they hear called "communism"? [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Will the human race last another 20 years? DATE: 10-Oct-07 21:50:54 HOST: sverige The prior poster made good observations about the stupidities of market capitalism, but why then join the idiots who think that the only alternative is what they hear called "communism"? .......TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. how do you get musics? DATE: 03-Jun-07 13:24:05 HOST: sverige I listen to the radio [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. how do you get musics? DATE: 03-Jun-07 13:24:05 HOST: sverige I listen to the radio ....TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Open Discussion DATE: 04-Feb-07 19:01:26 HOST: sdf wiki at http://yager.non http://wiki.nonish.net/NonTLD/ [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Open Discussion DATE: 04-Feb-07 19:01:26 HOST: sdf wiki at http://yager.non http://wiki.nonish.net/NonTLD/ TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Quick (but cheating) way to get non-commercial content for DATE: 05-Feb-07 13:44:39 HOST: sdf I find it easy to wonder why in the world anyone would want to create NON-exclusive content; especially at this stage of the game. And equally easy to think of all the excellent non-commercial content which already exists; and deserves the broadest possible exposure. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Quick (but cheating) way to get non-commercial content for DATE: 05-Feb-07 13:44:39 HOST: sdf I find it easy to wonder why in the world anyone would want to create NON-exclusive content; especially at this stage of the game. And equally easy to think of all the excellent non-commercial content which already exists; and deserves the broadest possible exposure. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Quick (but cheating) way to get non-commercial content for DATE: 09-Feb-07 22:05:01 HOST: sdf "it's starting to sound just like SDF" SDF is a great NON. While pondering how this project might, or ought, come together, I kept coming back to the view that it's already right here in the SDF published community; .... at least by some measure, notably non-commercial content. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Quick (but cheating) way to get non-commercial content for DATE: 09-Feb-07 22:05:01 HOST: sdf "it's starting to sound just like SDF" SDF is a great NON. While pondering how this project might, or ought, come together, I kept coming back to the view that it's already right here in the SDF published community; .... at least by some measure, notably non-commercial content. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. re-energizing the project DATE: 21-Jan-07 22:12:43 HOST: sverige Update on IRC server: irc.nonnic.org port 3600 channel #non [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. re-energizing the project DATE: 21-Jan-07 22:12:43 HOST: sverige Update on IRC server: irc.nonnic.org port 3600 channel #non TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Registration Form needs explanatory text DATE: 23-Jan-07 04:47:26 HOST: sverige The vision of SSL as a standard, if not a requirement, has been floating around throughout the limited discussion of this project. Like everything else, it's not really set in stone at this time, but rather an idea which is up for consideration and/or testing. Like most ideas, it has its positive merits, and a downside. Gopher is a good example of a difficult case for implmenetation. And I don't expect that anybody wants to exclude your gopher content. Similarly, it might be interesting to see how well shared hosting can be incorporated into the NON, with or without SSL. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Registration Form needs explanatory text DATE: 23-Jan-07 04:47:26 HOST: sverige The vision of SSL as a standard, if not a requirement, has been floating around throughout the limited discussion of this project. Like everything else, it's not really set in stone at this time, but rather an idea which is up for consideration and/or testing. Like most ideas, it has its positive merits, and a downside. Gopher is a good example of a difficult case for implmenetation. And I don't expect that anybody wants to exclude your gopher content. Similarly, it might be interesting to see how well shared hosting can be incorporated into the NON, with or without SSL. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. DNS status DATE: 09-Feb-07 16:03:58 HOST: sdf Alas, I may have deposted my last bug-report too early, and without examining the complete picture, for "the fix" was not that which was anticipated. Sigh. Having been cut off, you now have a net of one; and my continuing best wishes. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. DNS status DATE: 09-Feb-07 16:03:58 HOST: sdf Alas, I may have deposted my last bug-report too early, and without examining the complete picture, for "the fix" was not that which was anticipated. Sigh. Having been cut off, you now have a net of one; and my continuing best wishes. .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Liber Al Vel Legis DATE: 27-Nov-06 23:10:44 HOST: sverige There is no "ethic" in the OP quote. Ethics regards others. The quote was oriented specifically, exactly, and only, at the origin of "now" along the time axis, and "here" along the space axis. It describes a physics event, not a human event. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Liber Al Vel Legis DATE: 27-Nov-06 23:10:44 HOST: sverige There is no "ethic" in the OP quote. Ethics regards others. The quote was oriented specifically, exactly, and only, at the origin of "now" along the time axis, and "here" along the space axis. It describes a physics event, not a human event. .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Order of blankets on a bed. DATE: 11-May-07 00:36:26 HOST: sverige In addition to the insulation properties of the sleeping platform, it'd be appropriate to consider whether within a shelter or outside in the rain and wind. Either outside or inside with windows open, blankets protect against cold air. In temperate climate, on a bed indoors, only a bedsheet below; outdoors I wrap all around, from the inside out, above a ground tarp. A sheet for warm summer; add a flannel sheet for spring/fall; add a lightweight blanket for fine tuning; and add a [Hudson Bay] wool blanket for winter and rain/snow; two for extreme cold. Add fluffy comforter for the dame beside. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Order of blankets on a bed. DATE: 11-May-07 00:36:26 HOST: sverige In addition to the insulation properties of the sleeping platform, it'd be appropriate to consider whether within a shelter or outside in the rain and wind. Either outside or inside with windows open, blankets protect against cold air. In temperate climate, on a bed indoors, only a bedsheet below; outdoors I wrap all around, from the inside out, above a ground tarp. A sheet for warm summer; add a flannel sheet for spring/fall; add a lightweight blanket for fine tuning; and add a [Hudson Bay] wool blanket for winter and rain/snow; two for extreme cold. Add fluffy comforter for the dame beside. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. The mass of a falling object DATE: 12-Jun-07 01:04:27 HOST: sverige I don't know that this will help or not, or even if its correct, but I recall a fine explanation of the difference between mass and weight .... that an object's mass is the same if it is on the earth or on the moon, but its weight is less on the moon. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. The mass of a falling object DATE: 12-Jun-07 01:04:27 HOST: sverige I don't know that this will help or not, or even if its correct, but I recall a fine explanation of the difference between mass and weight .... that an object's mass is the same if it is on the earth or on the moon, but its weight is less on the moon. ...TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Creationism DATE: 11-Jul-07 11:22:41 HOST: sverige Creationism and Evolution are NOT mutually exclusive once you understand them working together, toward two completely different end points, and you exhibit an appropriate tolerance for 1)the non-scientific explanation of the ancient creation mythologies (starting with dismissing all application to calendar dates and years before epoch); and 2)the evolutionary activity which is limited to the physical sciences, time and space, and man's base natural understanding. In fact, the mythologies of creation are remarkably correct and in accord with what has been long since discovered with high technology and patient exploration. I've never really met anybody, even scientists, who deny that man has a soul; yet science doesn't explain it; creationism does so quite simply and effectively. "God breathed the breath of life into man." Since some current evolutionists refuse to believe in God, they refuse this explanation for the soul. I came to harmony with these things thru reading Bronowski, Jung, Swedenborg, and Hesse, among others. avo --- [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Creationism DATE: 11-Jul-07 11:22:41 HOST: sverige Creationism and Evolution are NOT mutually exclusive once you understand them working together, toward two completely different end points, and you exhibit an appropriate tolerance for 1)the non-scientific explanation of the ancient creation mythologies (starting with dismissing all application to calendar dates and years before epoch); and 2)the evolutionary activity which is limited to the physical sciences, time and space, and man's base natural understanding. In fact, the mythologies of creation are remarkably correct and in accord with what has been long since discovered with high technology and patient exploration. I've never really met anybody, even scientists, who deny that man has a soul; yet science doesn't explain it; creationism does so quite simply and effectively. "God breathed the breath of life into man." Since some current evolutionists refuse to believe in God, they refuse this explanation for the soul. I came to harmony with these things thru reading Bronowski, Jung, Swedenborg, and Hesse, among others. avo --- ......TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. tolerance DATE: 17-Oct-07 01:55:15 HOST: sverige "The Selfish Gene" was particularly good. I doubt that it received its appropriate due of exposure and understanding, like so many others. (That's not very recent, BTW) .... I don't recall it having anything to do with religion, but that doesn't mean it didn't. avo --- I wonder if I still have my hardcover release copy. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. tolerance DATE: 17-Oct-07 01:55:15 HOST: sverige "The Selfish Gene" was particularly good. I doubt that it received its appropriate due of exposure and understanding, like so many others. (That's not very recent, BTW) .... I don't recall it having anything to do with religion, but that doesn't mean it didn't. avo --- I wonder if I still have my hardcover release copy. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. tolerance DATE: 17-Oct-07 12:50:10 HOST: sverige Somebody posted "However, evolution is an important piece of the puzzle because it removes one of the major *motivations* for god: Namely the existence of the huge diversity of complex biological systems we find here on earth." Another irrational straw-man. Diversity of complex biological systems was never a "motivation for god". Nor was it a "justification". In fact a great many folks' deitys are defined in such a way as to preclude anything prior or causative, even including reasonings about trying to prove such a thing with a closed mind. Some people reasonably and rightly reach a better understanding of God when they study, ponder, or marvel at the organized chaos and diversity of complex biological or other natural systems. Another way to say it might be that God can be seen within all things, but that He is not the cause or creator of those physical things in any direct way. HTH, [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. tolerance DATE: 17-Oct-07 12:50:10 HOST: sverige Somebody posted "However, evolution is an important piece of the puzzle because it removes one of the major *motivations* for god: Namely the existence of the huge diversity of complex biological systems we find here on earth." Another irrational straw-man. Diversity of complex biological systems was never a "motivation for god". Nor was it a "justification". In fact a great many folks' deitys are defined in such a way as to preclude anything prior or causative, even including reasonings about trying to prove such a thing with a closed mind. Some people reasonably and rightly reach a better understanding of God when they study, ponder, or marvel at the organized chaos and diversity of complex biological or other natural systems. Another way to say it might be that God can be seen within all things, but that He is not the cause or creator of those physical things in any direct way. HTH, ........TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. shell connection timeouts DATE: 24-May-07 17:51:26 HOST: sverige I use -o "TCPKeepAlive no" for my ssh connections which stay up for days at a time .... with the understanding that temporary routing errors or packet losses can cause KeepAlive failure which subsequently causes a disconnect. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. shell connection timeouts DATE: 24-May-07 17:51:26 HOST: sverige I use -o "TCPKeepAlive no" for my ssh connections which stay up for days at a time .... with the understanding that temporary routing errors or packet losses can cause KeepAlive failure which subsequently causes a disconnect. ...TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Possible to use SDF as proxy via SSH port forwarding? DATE: 21-May-07 20:47:06 HOST: sverige The way to do this; and I just verfied that it works; is to use the "dynamic port forwarding" feature of SSH and configure your browser to use the localport as a SOCKS proxy. One other critical thing: Welcome to MetaARPA. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Possible to use SDF as proxy via SSH port forwarding? DATE: 21-May-07 20:47:06 HOST: sverige The way to do this; and I just verfied that it works; is to use the "dynamic port forwarding" feature of SSH and configure your browser to use the localport as a SOCKS proxy. One other critical thing: Welcome to MetaARPA. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Possible to use SDF as proxy via SSH port forwarding? DATE: 24-May-07 12:23:34 HOST: sverige Actually, I don't think flash can be routed through proxys. I think it makes a direct connection and controls the conversation. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Possible to use SDF as proxy via SSH port forwarding? DATE: 24-May-07 12:23:34 HOST: sverige Actually, I don't think flash can be routed through proxys. I think it makes a direct connection and controls the conversation. ......TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Ice Hockey DATE: 06-Nov-06 03:32:37 HOST: sverige Yep. I played indoor and outdoor throughout childhood before high school, back when there were 6 teams in the NHL. Today the skaters are faster, their shots are faster, and the game has been overhauled completely with sprint-till-you-can't on-the-fly shift changes, while the ice area, still the same size, has become far too small. For men's hockey to interest me any more, the rink needs to expand by at least 30%. Meanwhile, as evidenced by the 2006 Olympic Games (winter Athens), womens hockey has become an exciting sport. I find it all together different, and in many ways better than, the mens version. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Ice Hockey DATE: 06-Nov-06 03:32:37 HOST: sverige Yep. I played indoor and outdoor throughout childhood before high school, back when there were 6 teams in the NHL. Today the skaters are faster, their shots are faster, and the game has been overhauled completely with sprint-till-you-can't on-the-fly shift changes, while the ice area, still the same size, has become far too small. For men's hockey to interest me any more, the rink needs to expand by at least 30%. Meanwhile, as evidenced by the 2006 Olympic Games (winter Athens), womens hockey has become an exciting sport. I find it all together different, and in many ways better than, the mens version. ......TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. smj_the_fascist_admin DATE: 10-Jan-07 23:47:40 HOST: sverige with thanks, cowsay "reMOOve leadlines" :) [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. smj_the_fascist_admin DATE: 10-Jan-07 23:47:40 HOST: sverige with thanks, cowsay "reMOOve leadlines" :) .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. VPM Mail setup DATE: 09-Jul-07 14:13:37 HOST: sverige Last I checked, VPM mail can be retrieved by POP, not by IMAP Best client setting is "TLS if available". See if you can tell whether or not it was used. I find that it is not. mail.freeshell.org does not listen on the pop3/ssl port :995 So much for connection encryption. For authentication encryption: just try it each way :) [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. VPM Mail setup DATE: 09-Jul-07 14:13:37 HOST: sverige Last I checked, VPM mail can be retrieved by POP, not by IMAP Best client setting is "TLS if available". See if you can tell whether or not it was used. I find that it is not. mail.freeshell.org does not listen on the pop3/ssl port :995 So much for connection encryption. For authentication encryption: just try it each way :) TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. VPM Mail setup DATE: 10-Jul-07 02:14:37 HOST: sverige This is an idea. I'll let you (rather than me again) try it to see if it's true. Both SDF user accounts, and users' VPM accounts, receive mail at mail.freeshell.org (=mx.freeshell.org). SDF user accounts access via IMAP (?only?) -- port 143 SDF users authenticate with only their username (foo) and password same as for ssh access Users' VPM accounts access via POP3 (?only?) -- port 110 VPM accounts are set up by the SDF user using ?mkvpm? for usernames and passwords. VPM accounts authenticate with VPNNAME@SDFNAME.freeshell.org (bar@foo.freeshell.org) Best Wishes, avo --- [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. VPM Mail setup DATE: 10-Jul-07 02:14:37 HOST: sverige This is an idea. I'll let you (rather than me again) try it to see if it's true. Both SDF user accounts, and users' VPM accounts, receive mail at mail.freeshell.org (=mx.freeshell.org). SDF user accounts access via IMAP (?only?) -- port 143 SDF users authenticate with only their username (foo) and password same as for ssh access Users' VPM accounts access via POP3 (?only?) -- port 110 VPM accounts are set up by the SDF user using ?mkvpm? for usernames and passwords. VPM accounts authenticate with VPNNAME@SDFNAME.freeshell.org (bar@foo.freeshell.org) Best Wishes, avo --- .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Please help cfg mail client DATE: 12-Jun-07 11:29:03 HOST: sverige Switzer, since you have a VPM membership, AND access to Outlook, perhaps YOU can assist him. Thank you. And please consider taking this opportunity to create a tutorial on this for the next person. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Please help cfg mail client DATE: 12-Jun-07 11:29:03 HOST: sverige Switzer, since you have a VPM membership, AND access to Outlook, perhaps YOU can assist him. Thank you. And please consider taking this opportunity to create a tutorial on this for the next person. TACKER: bs27975 (B. Switzer) SUBJECT: .. Please help cfg mail client DATE: 13-Jun-07 04:24:25 HOST: otaku > We don't censor comments here, commie. Of course you do. Nothing else explains the missing posts. You guys aren't making any sense ... you note a high rate of userid creation but a low rate (< 1%) that stay. You wonder why, but make comments like this. Thank you for the warm, big, community welcome. Remember, free speech doesn't mean speak freely, it means free to speak. Responsibly. Preferably in a contributory, non-derogatory, helpful manner. But then, I suppose, I demonstrate here how sometimes I can't always do that myself. P.S. avoyager: I do not mean to peg you in the above. Aside from your initial rant ('manic', I liked that, I guess it was accurate, and I apologize), you help has been appreciated, thoughtful, and useful. The same is true for most others. Except, of course, for the anonymous posters. For you, it would be helpful if you stopped being anonymous. Hold yourself to a higher standard and stand up for the words you say. Let your community judge you openly and honestly by those words. You'll find honest attempts and stupid mistakes gain you the respect from the community you so obviously don't feel you deserve by posting anonymously. You may be teased, of course, in a warm manner, but your forthrighteness will be respected. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: bs27975 (B. Switzer) SUBJECT: .. Please help cfg mail client DATE: 13-Jun-07 04:24:25 HOST: otaku > We don't censor comments here, commie. Of course you do. Nothing else explains the missing posts. You guys aren't making any sense ... you note a high rate of userid creation but a low rate (< 1%) that stay. You wonder why, but make comments like this. Thank you for the warm, big, community welcome. Remember, free speech doesn't mean speak freely, it means free to speak. Responsibly. Preferably in a contributory, non-derogatory, helpful manner. But then, I suppose, I demonstrate here how sometimes I can't always do that myself. P.S. avoyager: I do not mean to peg you in the above. Aside from your initial rant ('manic', I liked that, I guess it was accurate, and I apologize), you help has been appreciated, thoughtful, and useful. The same is true for most others. Except, of course, for the anonymous posters. For you, it would be helpful if you stopped being anonymous. Hold yourself to a higher standard and stand up for the words you say. Let your community judge you openly and honestly by those words. You'll find honest attempts and stupid mistakes gain you the respect from the community you so obviously don't feel you deserve by posting anonymously. You may be teased, of course, in a warm manner, but your forthrighteness will be respected. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Secure xxx? DATE: 14-Jun-07 04:18:42 HOST: sverige When you write 'TLS/SSH' I'm figuring that you refer to 'TLS/SSL'. I don't recall SDF any where at any time announcing itself to be privacy or security conscious. At the system administration level it must of course be security conscious, but not necessarily at the user interface level. Note recent discussion about group/other readable $HOME directories. The SDF mail host does not use TLS on :25 ... it does support a lot of users; it is not a privacy mail service; TLS does impose some overhead. MetaARPA members can use SSH tunnels to make their mail connections to SDF. I haven't really tested for TLS on POP/IMAP. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Secure xxx? DATE: 14-Jun-07 04:18:42 HOST: sverige When you write 'TLS/SSH' I'm figuring that you refer to 'TLS/SSL'. I don't recall SDF any where at any time announcing itself to be privacy or security conscious. At the system administration level it must of course be security conscious, but not necessarily at the user interface level. Note recent discussion about group/other readable $HOME directories. The SDF mail host does not use TLS on :25 ... it does support a lot of users; it is not a privacy mail service; TLS does impose some overhead. MetaARPA members can use SSH tunnels to make their mail connections to SDF. I haven't really tested for TLS on POP/IMAP. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. VPN routing is now enabled DATE: 03-Jun-07 13:31:31 HOST: sverige "is there any way to verify that traffic is going down the VPN tunnel?" Most certain, and more permanent, way is to block all other routes at your firewall/router. If I correctly interperate the background chatter, the privacy risk with VPN is that it gets dropped (by/at the server for instance) and the local end might automatically and quietly restore non-VPN routing. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. VPN routing is now enabled DATE: 03-Jun-07 13:31:31 HOST: sverige "is there any way to verify that traffic is going down the VPN tunnel?" Most certain, and more permanent, way is to block all other routes at your firewall/router. If I correctly interperate the background chatter, the privacy risk with VPN is that it gets dropped (by/at the server for instance) and the local end might automatically and quietly restore non-VPN routing. .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Why VPN? DATE: 17-Jul-07 18:59:57 HOST: sverige "The only things left are programs that don't support the SOCKS proxy." like DNS lookups, Java, Flash, and .... well, .... everything else which can't, or is too much trouble to, be socksified. But that's just in answer to your question; it's not to say that you can't find your own workarounds to much of this. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Why VPN? DATE: 17-Jul-07 18:59:57 HOST: sverige "The only things left are programs that don't support the SOCKS proxy." like DNS lookups, Java, Flash, and .... well, .... everything else which can't, or is too much trouble to, be socksified. But that's just in answer to your question; it's not to say that you can't find your own workarounds to much of this. ..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Blogging software DATE: 04-Oct-07 18:06:28 HOST: sverige BTW, it'd be nice if http://motd.org/ provided or linked to the packages available thru it. I've also looked for this information from within my meta login and haven't been able to find/access it. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Blogging software DATE: 04-Oct-07 18:06:28 HOST: sverige BTW, it'd be nice if http://motd.org/ provided or linked to the packages available thru it. I've also looked for this information from within my meta login and haven't been able to find/access it. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. HTTPS on SDF DATE: 01-May-07 01:24:41 HOST: sverige Thank you, yargo. Yes, you or any SDFer may certainly use any of my text for an FAQ or Tutorial, without citation. I'm glad that you found it helpful :) [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. HTTPS on SDF DATE: 01-May-07 01:24:41 HOST: sverige Thank you, yargo. Yes, you or any SDFer may certainly use any of my text for an FAQ or Tutorial, without citation. I'm glad that you found it helpful :) TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. HTTPS on SDF DATE: 27-Apr-07 03:53:44 HOST: sverige Clarification .... SSL Certificates are tied to a single Identity, typically a domain name. Also, SSL authentication (and encryption) takes place at the IP connection, before a virtual hostname is sent. Therefore a host IP has only a single Certificate/Identity associated with it. It is possible to have an SDF Certificate attached to each apache server host, and to have virtual domains on that host answer on :443, only AFTER the connection has been authenticated with the SDF Certificate. This scenario is sufficient to provide encryption, but does not provide sound authentication, since the authentication cannot distinguish between the different virtual domains. That said, while it IS possible to do the aforementioned setup, it certainly requires additional apache configuration, interferes with current use of :443 for SSH port forwarding, encryption overhead, and probably other difficulties which likely exceed the practicality of providing the unauthenticated encryption for non-commercial content. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. HTTPS on SDF DATE: 27-Apr-07 03:53:44 HOST: sverige Clarification .... SSL Certificates are tied to a single Identity, typically a domain name. Also, SSL authentication (and encryption) takes place at the IP connection, before a virtual hostname is sent. Therefore a host IP has only a single Certificate/Identity associated with it. It is possible to have an SDF Certificate attached to each apache server host, and to have virtual domains on that host answer on :443, only AFTER the connection has been authenticated with the SDF Certificate. This scenario is sufficient to provide encryption, but does not provide sound authentication, since the authentication cannot distinguish between the different virtual domains. That said, while it IS possible to do the aforementioned setup, it certainly requires additional apache configuration, interferes with current use of :443 for SSH port forwarding, encryption overhead, and probably other difficulties which likely exceed the practicality of providing the unauthenticated encryption for non-commercial content. .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Redirects DATE: 12-Jul-07 02:41:58 HOST: sverige "I've recently read that Google gives a penalty to people that use both the www.example.com and example.com addresses to give the same content" Given the raw stupidity of such a tactic, maybe you should seek an independent, trusted, verification of this. "Therefore, I am looking to redirect people from my domain, wescoat.name to www.wescoat.name." And you think that will help?? Won't google see what others see? i.e. same content at each URL ? [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Redirects DATE: 12-Jul-07 02:41:58 HOST: sverige "I've recently read that Google gives a penalty to people that use both the www.example.com and example.com addresses to give the same content" Given the raw stupidity of such a tactic, maybe you should seek an independent, trusted, verification of this. "Therefore, I am looking to redirect people from my domain, wescoat.name to www.wescoat.name." And you think that will help?? Won't google see what others see? i.e. same content at each URL ? TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Go Daddy DNS outage DATE: 12-Mar-07 12:36:37 HOST: sverige This discussion makes no sense to me at all. The only news I find on it is that ridiculous piece by Juan Carlos Perez quoting inanities about testing GoDaddy's nameservers with regard to zoneinfo by using some php script. It doesn't even describe an "outage". Every single thing about this tale is nonsensical to me. Unless I'm missing out on something, zoneinfo calibration really is non-essential for hosts which use GMT and for hosts which use local time in zones without DST. Furthermore, hosts can keep whatever wacky times they want on their systems. Under some circumstances certain things won't work corretly or at all if they're way out of wack, but I don't see that providing name resolution is one of them at all. The article didn't bother to clarify these essential technical points for me. It didn't even try. I don't see that anybody involved in writing it has a clue. And just as importantly, I find GoDaddy to be an outstanding registrar. I appreciate their service every time I use it, and have for many years. It's their only service which I use. I know nothing of their free or commercial hosting features, or even DNS; but as a registrar I endorse them whole-heartedly, until they diverge too far from usability by all browser platforms. If not for that, I wouldn't likely have been trolled by this topic in the first place :) [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Go Daddy DNS outage DATE: 12-Mar-07 12:36:37 HOST: sverige This discussion makes no sense to me at all. The only news I find on it is that ridiculous piece by Juan Carlos Perez quoting inanities about testing GoDaddy's nameservers with regard to zoneinfo by using some php script. It doesn't even describe an "outage". Every single thing about this tale is nonsensical to me. Unless I'm missing out on something, zoneinfo calibration really is non-essential for hosts which use GMT and for hosts which use local time in zones without DST. Furthermore, hosts can keep whatever wacky times they want on their systems. Under some circumstances certain things won't work corretly or at all if they're way out of wack, but I don't see that providing name resolution is one of them at all. The article didn't bother to clarify these essential technical points for me. It didn't even try. I don't see that anybody involved in writing it has a clue. And just as importantly, I find GoDaddy to be an outstanding registrar. I appreciate their service every time I use it, and have for many years. It's their only service which I use. I know nothing of their free or commercial hosting features, or even DNS; but as a registrar I endorse them whole-heartedly, until they diverge too far from usability by all browser platforms. If not for that, I wouldn't likely have been trolled by this topic in the first place :) TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Go Daddy DNS outage DATE: 12-Mar-07 15:30:21 HOST: sverige probably not RegisterFly ..... http://news.netcraft.com/ [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Go Daddy DNS outage DATE: 12-Mar-07 15:30:21 HOST: sverige probably not RegisterFly ..... http://news.netcraft.com/ .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Web Quota (XFers)/Logs DATE: 17-Jun-07 03:58:11 HOST: sverige zaxxon, ssh to zaxxon.freeshell.org and cd to /var/log/httpd grep for zaxxon to get the raw log I have no tips on finding or devising any kind of analysis tool for that data. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Web Quota (XFers)/Logs DATE: 17-Jun-07 03:58:11 HOST: sverige zaxxon, ssh to zaxxon.freeshell.org and cd to /var/log/httpd grep for zaxxon to get the raw log I have no tips on finding or devising any kind of analysis tool for that data. .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Poll. Put CGI progs in cgi-bin? DATE: 25-Jun-07 19:00:07 HOST: sverige "No matter where you put it, they will find it." Well, if "they" are "after you" and they know your IP, then they'll be persistent indeed. Otherwise, it has been my experience that after moving my SSHD servers to some high port, there is no "they". Not even a one in 12 months. So it really depends upon who "they" are doesn't it? The skids and bots which are most troublesome for most people are rather easily fooled or avoided. The determined malicious vendetta who is focused on you will of course be much more troublesome, but then how many of us have those demons in our mundane lives? Not me; but then, I didn't buy into the fear factor, or that "The Russians are Coming! The Russians are Coming!" and all its subsequent variations to this very day. None of this really bears directly on the original question however, other than to maybe bring focus on the two fundamental questions of what is being protected, and from whom. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Poll. Put CGI progs in cgi-bin? DATE: 25-Jun-07 19:00:07 HOST: sverige "No matter where you put it, they will find it." Well, if "they" are "after you" and they know your IP, then they'll be persistent indeed. Otherwise, it has been my experience that after moving my SSHD servers to some high port, there is no "they". Not even a one in 12 months. So it really depends upon who "they" are doesn't it? The skids and bots which are most troublesome for most people are rather easily fooled or avoided. The determined malicious vendetta who is focused on you will of course be much more troublesome, but then how many of us have those demons in our mundane lives? Not me; but then, I didn't buy into the fear factor, or that "The Russians are Coming! The Russians are Coming!" and all its subsequent variations to this very day. None of this really bears directly on the original question however, other than to maybe bring focus on the two fundamental questions of what is being protected, and from whom. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. HTTPS/SSL for SDF-hosted pages? DATE: 02-Jul-07 16:52:23 HOST: sverige papa, no, https is not available at sdf search this years bboard archive for explanations [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. HTTPS/SSL for SDF-hosted pages? DATE: 02-Jul-07 16:52:23 HOST: sverige papa, no, https is not available at sdf search this years bboard archive for explanations TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. htaccess not working? DATE: 04-Nov-07 17:24:21 HOST: sverige This applies even more to .htpasswd; for .htaccess by definition needs to reside in the html directory. Also, ensure that they are readable by the httpd process. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. htaccess not working? DATE: 04-Nov-07 17:24:21 HOST: sverige This applies even more to .htpasswd; for .htaccess by definition needs to reside in the html directory. Also, ensure that they are readable by the httpd process. .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Win2000 is great!! DATE: 22-Feb-07 04:10:40 HOST: sverige and then there was this ... http://chalain.livejournal.com/43015.html [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Win2000 is great!! DATE: 22-Feb-07 04:10:40 HOST: sverige and then there was this ... http://chalain.livejournal.com/43015.html .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Robert Reich DATE: 24-Oct-07 13:46:58 HOST: sverige Like I've been saying, capitalism is an appropriate tool of a democracy; and democracy is an appropriate tool of a socialism which prioritizes human need and development over exploitation. The current failed state of democracy is due to its neglect of both these principles. The current failed state of capitalism is also due to its neglect of these same principles, and further by its failure to distribute ownership and spending power. The consequences of all this will probably not be enjoyable. Thanks for caring. avo --- [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Robert Reich DATE: 24-Oct-07 13:46:58 HOST: sverige Like I've been saying, capitalism is an appropriate tool of a democracy; and democracy is an appropriate tool of a socialism which prioritizes human need and development over exploitation. The current failed state of democracy is due to its neglect of both these principles. The current failed state of capitalism is also due to its neglect of these same principles, and further by its failure to distribute ownership and spending power. The consequences of all this will probably not be enjoyable. Thanks for caring. avo --- TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. FEMA -friggin' phonies DATE: 27-Oct-07 14:15:22 HOST: sverige It wasn't FEMA; it was the political hacks appointed thereto. This is standard practice with the GOP. References: http://www.prwatch.org/fakenews3/summary http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Fake_news http://www.freepress.net/fakenews/ [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. FEMA -friggin' phonies DATE: 27-Oct-07 14:15:22 HOST: sverige It wasn't FEMA; it was the political hacks appointed thereto. This is standard practice with the GOP. References: http://www.prwatch.org/fakenews3/summary http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Fake_news http://www.freepress.net/fakenews/ [OK] Command: % Type (H)ELP for Commands. Command: QUIT