S D F - 1 Bulletin Board ================================================================================ BBOARD POSTS TOPIC ================================================================================ SPACE [0001] The meek will inherit the earth... FORSALE [0003] SDF Marketplace buy/sell/trade ANONYMOUS [0019] Anonymous people talking about strange things, anonymously ARPA [0014] Member Discussions, Projects and Fun HELPDESK [0033] Users Helping Users REQUESTS [0025] Software Package Install and Update Requests GENERAL [0038] Random Discussions, News and Thoughts WEB [0005] Making WWW pages. GOPHER [0003] Port 70 - before The Web SHARED [0004] Sharing SDF resources responsibly, users respecting users HUMOR [0009] It's funny. Laugh. BITCH [0010] a bitch board for airing the grievances of everyday life. BSD [0007] BSD Discussions and Announcements MUSIC [0005] % MUSIC does not exist. -- wtf GAMES [0003] Games and Puzzles UNIX [0014] UNIX stuff URBEX [0003] Urban Exploration ANNOUNCE [0004] System Announcements and News WINDOWS [0003] By Micro$oft OBITS [0003] Obituaries DSL [0001] DSL related stuff UK [0001] Life in the dodgy islands MOTD [0005] MOTD.ORG Web 29.01a in SDF style ;-) DIALUP [0002] SDF's TENEX Dialup Service GOD [0006] GOD does exist WARMING [0003] we must save the earth from global warming!!! you must help CODING [0007] Discussions about programming in various languages... HARDWARE [0011] Fried Chips and Dip DISCOVERY [0005] What did you discover you could do on SDF today? JOBS [0002] employment related stuff POLITICS [0001] Obama will win in 2008 MAC [0006] Macs, Mac OS X, & Apple Discussions PANIC [0001] the usa is crashing! abandon ship! ODDQUIRKS [0003] Your strange and odd quirks... IPV6 [0000] IPv6 is coming. It's arrival is mandatory. LOCAL [0002] Local bboard info POLLS [0006] SDFers love polls COOKING [0005] Food Overload INVEST [0001] Stocks, Bonds, Savings, Mutual Funds and the like BANKING [0002] questinos about banks BOOKCLUB [0001] SDF Book Club DOH [0001] your not so bright moments CRYPTO [0001] Cryptography, codes and encryption LINUX [0002] Why did the penguin cross the road? MATH [0002] Math discussion. MORSE [0002] morse code and ham radio operators MUD [0001] exit RELIGION [0003] Shalom Aleichem TWENEX [0001] SDF user contributed software VPN [0002] SDF VPN Use and Configuration Discussions Command: ARCHIVE SDF BBOARD Archives 1994 1995 1996 1997 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 Which year? You are now in the 2006 archives. Command: SEARCH (KEYWORD) % Searching on avoyager .........TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: Two things are clear DATE: 19-Oct-06 21:08:02 HOST: sverige 1. If we had a different smj, we'd have a different SDF. 2. There is no other SDF. Less clear to everybody, but true for me, is: This SDF is way more better than just "fine". [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT ..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: savvis UE UK DATE: 08-Mar-06 04:28:53 HOST: sverige more of a grumble than a bitch ... but when the lag is untenable, and packet loss exceeds 15%, and traceroutes look (exactly)like this (with IPs mixed into the lines : 10 204.70.192.46 10 ms 204.70.192.98 40 ms 30 ms 11 204.70.192.98 40 ms 204.70.192.49 40 ms 204.70.192.98 30 ms 12 204.70.192.49 30 ms 204.70.193.9 30 ms 204.70.192.49 40 ms 13 216.90.2.126 100 ms 90 ms 204.70.193.9 30 ms 14 192.94.73.4 100 ms 216.90.2.126 120 ms * ... I tend to grumble sprintlink serves a much cleaner route. (than savvis) ref. traceroute.org [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: savvis UE UK DATE: 08-Mar-06 04:28:53 HOST: sverige more of a grumble than a bitch ... but when the lag is untenable, and packet loss exceeds 15%, and traceroutes look (exactly)like this (with IPs mixed into the lines : 10 204.70.192.46 10 ms 204.70.192.98 40 ms 30 ms 11 204.70.192.98 40 ms 204.70.192.49 40 ms 204.70.192.98 30 ms 12 204.70.192.49 30 ms 204.70.193.9 30 ms 204.70.192.49 40 ms 13 216.90.2.126 100 ms 90 ms 204.70.193.9 30 ms 14 192.94.73.4 100 ms 216.90.2.126 120 ms * ... I tend to grumble sprintlink serves a much cleaner route. (than savvis) ref. traceroute.org TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: paypal DATE: 13-Feb-06 03:51:36 HOST: sverige here I am with a Verified VISA, and can't get PayPal to use it for sending funds to SDF. that sucks; and I'm pissed about it [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: paypal DATE: 13-Feb-06 03:51:36 HOST: sverige here I am with a Verified VISA, and can't get PayPal to use it for sending funds to SDF. that sucks; and I'm pissed about it ..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: DVD Media and Recorders DATE: 30-May-06 18:45:22 HOST: sverige Now that there is only 16x DVD-R media on the shelves, I discover that it is not writeable by my 8x burners; even though I regularly burn at only 2x because the media otherwise fails too often. I've nothing nice to say. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: DVD Media and Recorders DATE: 30-May-06 18:45:22 HOST: sverige Now that there is only 16x DVD-R media on the shelves, I discover that it is not writeable by my 8x burners; even though I regularly burn at only 2x because the media otherwise fails too often. I've nothing nice to say. .......TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: about that deity DATE: 04-Nov-06 18:26:16 HOST: sverige Your predecessors believed that the deities caused the rain to fall and the sun to rise. You've learned that those events have other causes, within your perception of your universe. Some of your contemporarys believe that a deity can cause volcanoes, tsunamis, and random acts of violence by humans. You've learned that those events have other causes, within your perception of your universe. Some of your contemporarys believe that their deity is now dutifully attending to their prayers and supplications. You have marvelled at their persistence in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, and somewhat scornfully wondered if they are neglecting their personal responsibilities. Some of your contemporarys believe that their deity will one day appear upon their porch and lead them onto a bus bound for some eternal glory. You have observed that these things have not happened, within your perception of your universe. And you have not seen a deity within your perception of your universe, .... EXCEPT ... within nearly all those who have gone before you, and so many of those who surround you. You might blame this deity, or any belief in it, for the apparent fact that everybody is wrong about this except you; or for its not making itself better known by, or understood by, you. But to do so would be to acknowledge it, and you reject this conundrum, or become crazed and irrational, which you of all people CANNOT abide. Yet you know that there is SOMETHING which leads us to discover that the earth is not flat, that the sun neither rises nor shines, that earthquakes do not have anger, or revenge; that SOMETHING leads us to wonder about those things which we do not understand, and to love certain things above others, even to the point of sacrifice. You KNOW that there is imagination, and inspiration, and you do NOT know its origins, causes or purposes, even within your perception of your universe, as it exists now, not formerly. The deity, it turns out, is not just poorly understood; it is terribly MISunderstood. Seriously folks. More folks have a botched understanding of it than have a lack of understanding of it. And that's pretty much all which separates it from us; is its perfection, toward which we may strive or stumble along our way. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: about that deity DATE: 04-Nov-06 18:26:16 HOST: sverige Your predecessors believed that the deities caused the rain to fall and the sun to rise. You've learned that those events have other causes, within your perception of your universe. Some of your contemporarys believe that a deity can cause volcanoes, tsunamis, and random acts of violence by humans. You've learned that those events have other causes, within your perception of your universe. Some of your contemporarys believe that their deity is now dutifully attending to their prayers and supplications. You have marvelled at their persistence in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, and somewhat scornfully wondered if they are neglecting their personal responsibilities. Some of your contemporarys believe that their deity will one day appear upon their porch and lead them onto a bus bound for some eternal glory. You have observed that these things have not happened, within your perception of your universe. And you have not seen a deity within your perception of your universe, .... EXCEPT ... within nearly all those who have gone before you, and so many of those who surround you. You might blame this deity, or any belief in it, for the apparent fact that everybody is wrong about this except you; or for its not making itself better known by, or understood by, you. But to do so would be to acknowledge it, and you reject this conundrum, or become crazed and irrational, which you of all people CANNOT abide. Yet you know that there is SOMETHING which leads us to discover that the earth is not flat, that the sun neither rises nor shines, that earthquakes do not have anger, or revenge; that SOMETHING leads us to wonder about those things which we do not understand, and to love certain things above others, even to the point of sacrifice. You KNOW that there is imagination, and inspiration, and you do NOT know its origins, causes or purposes, even within your perception of your universe, as it exists now, not formerly. The deity, it turns out, is not just poorly understood; it is terribly MISunderstood. Seriously folks. More folks have a botched understanding of it than have a lack of understanding of it. And that's pretty much all which separates it from us; is its perfection, toward which we may strive or stumble along our way. .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: Digital Cameras DATE: 07-Jun-06 13:16:21 HOST: sverige I'm committed to purchasing a digital camera for a high school freshman with little interest in the art of photography but eager to enjoy the "capturing of the moment". It's unlikely that she will ever have anything she wants printed larger than 5"x8" or want to zoom in >4x post-photo. I'm thinking 5 Megapixels is plenty, and storage not much of an issue, and connectivity probably now universally USB or card reader, so other concerns are quality, durability, battery life, charging requirements, and anything you can illuminate for me. Thank you. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: Digital Cameras DATE: 07-Jun-06 13:16:21 HOST: sverige I'm committed to purchasing a digital camera for a high school freshman with little interest in the art of photography but eager to enjoy the "capturing of the moment". It's unlikely that she will ever have anything she wants printed larger than 5"x8" or want to zoom in >4x post-photo. I'm thinking 5 Megapixels is plenty, and storage not much of an issue, and connectivity probably now universally USB or card reader, so other concerns are quality, durability, battery life, charging requirements, and anything you can illuminate for me. Thank you. .........TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: Good One, Beaker !! DATE: 01-Apr-06 03:00:28 HOST: sverige This is worth sharing, from the 'helpdesk' ... How do you get a file? [ RESPONSE: 20060331015447 UNIX response by beaker@sverige ] How to get a file to, come home: mv //file ~/ reveal it's inner self: cat file show you it's head: head file show it's back side: tail file reveal it's self slowly: reed file give backtalk: rev file speak like a bovine: cat file | cowsay speak loudly: tr '[a-z]' '[A-Z]' < file go away and never return: rm -f file tell you what's permissible: ls -l file talk in morse code: morse file fill out a punch card: bcd file go tell it to someone else: cat file | mail -s "subject" HTH, Beaker [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: Good One, Beaker !! DATE: 01-Apr-06 03:00:28 HOST: sverige This is worth sharing, from the 'helpdesk' ... How do you get a file? [ RESPONSE: 20060331015447 UNIX response by beaker@sverige ] How to get a file to, come home: mv //file ~/ reveal it's inner self: cat file show you it's head: head file show it's back side: tail file reveal it's self slowly: reed file give backtalk: rev file speak like a bovine: cat file | cowsay speak loudly: tr '[a-z]' '[A-Z]' < file go away and never return: rm -f file tell you what's permissible: ls -l file talk in morse code: morse file fill out a punch card: bcd file go tell it to someone else: cat file | mail -s "subject" HTH, Beaker .....TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: Backspace DATE: 20-Feb-06 15:16:34 HOST: sverige My backspace key works ass expected and desired in the shell, in Pine, in Pico/bboard, and elsewhere, but not in the helpdesk ap or more critically, not in com. In those instances, that key generates a "^?" string rather than the ctrl-H keystroke. Would anybody care to explain this to me? Is there some configuration I can apply which will remedy this situation? Thanks, -avo [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: Backspace DATE: 20-Feb-06 15:16:34 HOST: sverige My backspace key works ass expected and desired in the shell, in Pine, in Pico/bboard, and elsewhere, but not in the helpdesk ap or more critically, not in com. In those instances, that key generates a "^?" string rather than the ctrl-H keystroke. Would anybody care to explain this to me? Is there some configuration I can apply which will remedy this situation? Thanks, -avo .....TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: Foreign Media Reaction DATE: 10-Dec-05 21:16:04 HOST: sverige on Iceland ... /tmp/Foreign_Media_Reaction.tar.gz lots of content there for you to examine; grep; play textfile games with to exercise the new array. "Each business day, the U.S. Department of State's Office of Research produces an Issue Focus of foreign media commentary on a major foreign policy issue or related event. These reports provide a global round-up of editorials and op-ed commentary from major newspapers, magazines and broadcast media around the world. Following a one-page analysis of the commentary, readers will find block quotes sorted by geographic region and country. An Issue Focus normally covers one to three weeks of editorial opinion." This product was very recently discontinued. Here is the only archive of which I am aware. Thanks for supporting SDF. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: Foreign Media Reaction DATE: 10-Dec-05 21:16:04 HOST: sverige on Iceland ... /tmp/Foreign_Media_Reaction.tar.gz lots of content there for you to examine; grep; play textfile games with to exercise the new array. "Each business day, the U.S. Department of State's Office of Research produces an Issue Focus of foreign media commentary on a major foreign policy issue or related event. These reports provide a global round-up of editorials and op-ed commentary from major newspapers, magazines and broadcast media around the world. Following a one-page analysis of the commentary, readers will find block quotes sorted by geographic region and country. An Issue Focus normally covers one to three weeks of editorial opinion." This product was very recently discontinued. Here is the only archive of which I am aware. Thanks for supporting SDF. .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: Console configuration DATE: 15-Jul-06 14:25:56 HOST: sverige I have three important questions, for which I seek and have not discovered documentation. On my brand new grub/debian installation, runlevel 2, no gui,x,desktop, ... A. How do I modify console (terminal window) resolution? (i.e. from 640x480 to 800x600) B. How do I modify console size? (i.e. from 80x24 to 80x43) C. How do I set fg/bg/hl colors? (only interested in foreground, background, and hilight) Thanks for any pointers. I'll be able to move along much faster after resolving these basic issues. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: Console configuration DATE: 15-Jul-06 14:25:56 HOST: sverige I have three important questions, for which I seek and have not discovered documentation. On my brand new grub/debian installation, runlevel 2, no gui,x,desktop, ... A. How do I modify console (terminal window) resolution? (i.e. from 640x480 to 800x600) B. How do I modify console size? (i.e. from 80x24 to 80x43) C. How do I set fg/bg/hl colors? (only interested in foreground, background, and hilight) Thanks for any pointers. I'll be able to move along much faster after resolving these basic issues. ......TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: a 15 yr. old activist's flash WWJD DATE: 27-Apr-06 13:46:54 HOST: sverige http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0426-22.htm is a commentary article which introduces the flash: http://peacetakescourage.cf.huffingtonpost.com/animations/wwjd.swf [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: a 15 yr. old activist's flash WWJD DATE: 27-Apr-06 13:46:54 HOST: sverige http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0426-22.htm is a commentary article which introduces the flash: http://peacetakescourage.cf.huffingtonpost.com/animations/wwjd.swf .....TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: kernel loads DATE: 19-May-06 00:40:17 HOST: sverige I just want to say *thanks*, Stephen, for all your efforts here; not only in quantity, but most emphatically in quality! Not that I'm qualified to judge you, but I am favorably impressed and respectful of your talents provided here. If I were a grandmother down the road, I'd bake you a pie and buy you socks. But from who and where I am, I'll just say "Thanks" and donate what and when I can. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: kernel loads DATE: 19-May-06 00:40:17 HOST: sverige I just want to say *thanks*, Stephen, for all your efforts here; not only in quantity, but most emphatically in quality! Not that I'm qualified to judge you, but I am favorably impressed and respectful of your talents provided here. If I were a grandmother down the road, I'd bake you a pie and buy you socks. But from who and where I am, I'll just say "Thanks" and donate what and when I can. ..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: it was way back DATE: 07-Jul-06 19:42:28 HOST: sverige way back when citizens were converted to consumers and informed "let the buyer beware", when the foundation was created for sustaining an environment of fraud and deception, and establishing a culture which should accept fraud and deception as "the way of life" as if it were natural and unavoidable. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: it was way back DATE: 07-Jul-06 19:42:28 HOST: sverige way back when citizens were converted to consumers and informed "let the buyer beware", when the foundation was created for sustaining an environment of fraud and deception, and establishing a culture which should accept fraud and deception as "the way of life" as if it were natural and unavoidable. .....TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: hurricanes and global warming DATE: 01-Dec-05 22:11:48 HOST: sverige Recently the NWS gave a press event remarking on the 2005 hurricane season and stating with confidence that 2006 would be little different. Again, they made their assertion that global warming was not a factor, which seems to be the dominant view of most ocean-atmosphere scientists. One reason regularly made in connection with this disjunction is that the warm gulf current is on its own cycle which is minimally influenced by air temps. However, in this press conference, they also said that part of the reason the '05 season was so active was that strong westerlies did shear apart the advancing storms; and it is *that* statement which may reconnect the global warming with the hurricane season, because it is temperature differences which create the winds. Equatorial winds blow from east to west because the earth is rotating west to east beneath (and with) the atmosphere. Other than that, winds blow in a direction from high pressures toward low pressures, these being created by differential heating of the equatorial and polar reegions. "Warm air rises" in the equatorial regions creating relative low pressure at the surface; while cold air in the polar regions descends into relative high pressure areas on the surface and then blow toward the equator. Coriolis effect turns both the equatorial easterlies and the polar northerlies, while higher friction at the surface slows the surface winds relative to the upper level winds, which has a direct impact on the direction of those winds, ... and the whole lower atmosphere is stirred up into a constantly morphing swirl for which the predominant influence is .... temperature. specifically air temperature, which indeed is influenced by the temperatures of the land and water surfaces beneath it. Hopefully, Jeff or other more expert than I will correct me where I'm wrong. My point here would be that the "strength" of the hurricane season is a result of many influences; and that any global warming would perhaps affect the season more than it would affect any one of those individual influences. Notably, global warming wouldn't impact the temperatures of the gulf current or open ocean surface as much as it would impact the winds which drive and destroy a tropical storm. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: hurricanes and global warming DATE: 01-Dec-05 22:11:48 HOST: sverige Recently the NWS gave a press event remarking on the 2005 hurricane season and stating with confidence that 2006 would be little different. Again, they made their assertion that global warming was not a factor, which seems to be the dominant view of most ocean-atmosphere scientists. One reason regularly made in connection with this disjunction is that the warm gulf current is on its own cycle which is minimally influenced by air temps. However, in this press conference, they also said that part of the reason the '05 season was so active was that strong westerlies did shear apart the advancing storms; and it is *that* statement which may reconnect the global warming with the hurricane season, because it is temperature differences which create the winds. Equatorial winds blow from east to west because the earth is rotating west to east beneath (and with) the atmosphere. Other than that, winds blow in a direction from high pressures toward low pressures, these being created by differential heating of the equatorial and polar reegions. "Warm air rises" in the equatorial regions creating relative low pressure at the surface; while cold air in the polar regions descends into relative high pressure areas on the surface and then blow toward the equator. Coriolis effect turns both the equatorial easterlies and the polar northerlies, while higher friction at the surface slows the surface winds relative to the upper level winds, which has a direct impact on the direction of those winds, ... and the whole lower atmosphere is stirred up into a constantly morphing swirl for which the predominant influence is .... temperature. specifically air temperature, which indeed is influenced by the temperatures of the land and water surfaces beneath it. Hopefully, Jeff or other more expert than I will correct me where I'm wrong. My point here would be that the "strength" of the hurricane season is a result of many influences; and that any global warming would perhaps affect the season more than it would affect any one of those individual influences. Notably, global warming wouldn't impact the temperatures of the gulf current or open ocean surface as much as it would impact the winds which drive and destroy a tropical storm. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: 2005 Global Overview DATE: 20-Dec-05 13:02:15 HOST: sverige http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2005/s2548.htm [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: 2005 Global Overview DATE: 20-Dec-05 13:02:15 HOST: sverige http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2005/s2548.htm .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: hydrogen as energy DATE: 23-Mar-06 19:02:16 HOST: sverige here's an easy to read, informative, article describing the state of "hydrogen economy" and its applicability as a fuel/energy source. http://www.oriononline.org/pages/oo/sidebars/front/index_Flannery.html this post, and board, are tack-on follow-up to original discussion now in 2006 archive. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: hydrogen as energy DATE: 23-Mar-06 19:02:16 HOST: sverige here's an easy to read, informative, article describing the state of "hydrogen economy" and its applicability as a fuel/energy source. http://www.oriononline.org/pages/oo/sidebars/front/index_Flannery.html this post, and board, are tack-on follow-up to original discussion now in 2006 archive. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: Geothermal DATE: 26-Feb-06 13:33:36 HOST: sverige If there was a decentralized technology by which communities could tap inner-earth resources (ala geothermal) for conversion into various forms of civilized energy needs starting with electricity, would it/we eventually reduce the earth's mass enough so that it would drift into a larger orbit away from the life-giving Sun and freeze over? [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: Geothermal DATE: 26-Feb-06 13:33:36 HOST: sverige If there was a decentralized technology by which communities could tap inner-earth resources (ala geothermal) for conversion into various forms of civilized energy needs starting with electricity, would it/we eventually reduce the earth's mass enough so that it would drift into a larger orbit away from the life-giving Sun and freeze over? ..............TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. 10 Reasons To Boycott everything American DATE: 12-Sep-06 04:12:18 HOST: sverige "I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country... Corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed." --U.S. President Abraham Lincoln, 1864 "Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. To destroy this invisible government, to befoul the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of today." --U.S. President Theodore Roosevelt, April 19, 1906 "In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist." --U.S. President Dwight D. Eisenhouer, January 17, 1961 "It takes a lot of degeneration before a country falls into dictatorship, but we should avoid these ends by avoiding these beginnings." --U.S. Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O'Connor, March 9, 2006 [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. 10 Reasons To Boycott everything American DATE: 12-Sep-06 04:12:18 HOST: sverige "I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country... Corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed." --U.S. President Abraham Lincoln, 1864 "Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. To destroy this invisible government, to befoul the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of today." --U.S. President Theodore Roosevelt, April 19, 1906 "In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist." --U.S. President Dwight D. Eisenhouer, January 17, 1961 "It takes a lot of degeneration before a country falls into dictatorship, but we should avoid these ends by avoiding these beginnings." --U.S. Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O'Connor, March 9, 2006 TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. 10 Reasons To Boycott everything American DATE: 13-Sep-06 01:48:50 HOST: sverige freestateproject.org reminds me of when Nixon wanted to move all the hippies to Vermont [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. 10 Reasons To Boycott everything American DATE: 13-Sep-06 01:48:50 HOST: sverige freestateproject.org reminds me of when Nixon wanted to move all the hippies to Vermont TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. 10 Reasons To Boycott everything American DATE: 13-Sep-06 04:50:29 HOST: sverige Jelly beans were a Reagan/Dalek thing. Reasonable folk favor jelly babies. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. 10 Reasons To Boycott everything American DATE: 13-Sep-06 04:50:29 HOST: sverige Jelly beans were a Reagan/Dalek thing. Reasonable folk favor jelly babies. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. 10 Reasons To Boycott everything American DATE: 14-Sep-06 11:48:27 HOST: sverige I don't forsee armed revolt against, of all things, the U.S. Government, which has the most obscene and unnecessary quantity, and quality, of effective combat apparatus available; and plenty enough people who actually enjoy using that stuff against other people, even their own countrywomen. Besides, the government isn't at fault; they're just the tools of business and "the economy", which themselves are controlled by the financial, weapons, transportation, and energy sectors; primarily the first. It can be seen that many in government and society actually even worship the economy, the money, and the power. But like alcoholism and debauchery, it's something which is easeier to see from the outside than from within. As it is currently setup, the vast civilian population, already repurposed as consumers, assulted and manipulated with deceptions and fabrications, is decreasingly dependent upon those economic and business interests, because their costs of living are exceeding their incomes. They are spending less because they have less. The essential qualities of life have been steadily deteriorating since the 1950s. As consumers, they are no longer able to sustain the demands of the producers. Meanwhile, "business" continues to be stuck in a dependency upon perpetual "growth" which cannot conceivably endure forever, and upon short term profit over long term stability; and has given away its ability to produce much of anything other than armaments. Very little of the essential production required by a population is local any more. With little concern for its citizens, and in the corrupt cash pockets of its business affiliates, the corporate government is charging around the planet exploiting every resource and population it can discover, generating a vast "ill will" toward itself, and provoking (while supplying) many militant types into armed conflict and agression, against itself, witnessed in part by the attacks upon the World Trade Center. (by freedom loving people) There is now a convergence of impending, ineviatable, disruption of social order, and of financial stability, which could easily enough, by fueling each other, become a ollapse" of both within the United States. That IS the momentum, and it is not hard to witness the rise of the "police state" within the country's own borders. Elsewhere, because the United States is no longer fit for the task, we can bear witness to the rising up of the next "leader of the free world". The human population needs leadership; it abhors rulership; because it is a freedom loving species with imagination and conscience. Perhaps our next leader will be, or currently is, the EU; perhaps China; perhaps the rest of the American continent into which the US will fit much the same way as Haiti does today. To be sure however, whoever may be fit for, and willing to assume, the responsibility, will be met with an awesome resistance, until the bullets run out. --- well, .... YOU brought it up. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. 10 Reasons To Boycott everything American DATE: 14-Sep-06 11:48:27 HOST: sverige I don't forsee armed revolt against, of all things, the U.S. Government, which has the most obscene and unnecessary quantity, and quality, of effective combat apparatus available; and plenty enough people who actually enjoy using that stuff against other people, even their own countrywomen. Besides, the government isn't at fault; they're just the tools of business and "the economy", which themselves are controlled by the financial, weapons, transportation, and energy sectors; primarily the first. It can be seen that many in government and society actually even worship the economy, the money, and the power. But like alcoholism and debauchery, it's something which is easeier to see from the outside than from within. As it is currently setup, the vast civilian population, already repurposed as consumers, assulted and manipulated with deceptions and fabrications, is decreasingly dependent upon those economic and business interests, because their costs of living are exceeding their incomes. They are spending less because they have less. The essential qualities of life have been steadily deteriorating since the 1950s. As consumers, they are no longer able to sustain the demands of the producers. Meanwhile, "business" continues to be stuck in a dependency upon perpetual "growth" which cannot conceivably endure forever, and upon short term profit over long term stability; and has given away its ability to produce much of anything other than armaments. Very little of the essential production required by a population is local any more. With little concern for its citizens, and in the corrupt cash pockets of its business affiliates, the corporate government is charging around the planet exploiting every resource and population it can discover, generating a vast "ill will" toward itself, and provoking (while supplying) many militant types into armed conflict and agression, against itself, witnessed in part by the attacks upon the World Trade Center. (by freedom loving people) There is now a convergence of impending, ineviatable, disruption of social order, and of financial stability, which could easily enough, by fueling each other, become a ollapse" of both within the United States. That IS the momentum, and it is not hard to witness the rise of the "police state" within the country's own borders. Elsewhere, because the United States is no longer fit for the task, we can bear witness to the rising up of the next "leader of the free world". The human population needs leadership; it abhors rulership; because it is a freedom loving species with imagination and conscience. Perhaps our next leader will be, or currently is, the EU; perhaps China; perhaps the rest of the American continent into which the US will fit much the same way as Haiti does today. To be sure however, whoever may be fit for, and willing to assume, the responsibility, will be met with an awesome resistance, until the bullets run out. --- well, .... YOU brought it up. .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. 10 Reasons To Boycott everything American DATE: 14-Sep-06 18:57:38 HOST: sverige Michael, Of course they love freedom. How could any human hate freedom? That notion is totally non-sensical. So perhaps you can explain it to me. How does a person develop a hatred for freedom? What brings them to this? And then what do they do? Chain themselves to barge and drink on the pier until they pass out? [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. 10 Reasons To Boycott everything American DATE: 14-Sep-06 18:57:38 HOST: sverige Michael, Of course they love freedom. How could any human hate freedom? That notion is totally non-sensical. So perhaps you can explain it to me. How does a person develop a hatred for freedom? What brings them to this? And then what do they do? Chain themselves to barge and drink on the pier until they pass out? TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. I'm bored DATE: 12-Jul-06 20:45:14 HOST: sdf best time sink ever: fractals maybe hunt down a copy of fractint which runs on your color system. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. I'm bored DATE: 12-Jul-06 20:45:14 HOST: sdf best time sink ever: fractals maybe hunt down a copy of fractint which runs on your color system. ...TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. lucid dreams DATE: 16-Nov-06 02:37:15 HOST: sverige "- Flew like Superman (I just kinda swim through the air)" Yeah. I've done both. The water was nice, but slow, and required more energy; gliding on favorable breezes is much much different in a very positive way, and certainly covers more territory and viewpoint. It's the best way to arrive at and depart from outdoor social gatherings. Keep at it. You're doing great! [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. lucid dreams DATE: 16-Nov-06 02:37:15 HOST: sverige "- Flew like Superman (I just kinda swim through the air)" Yeah. I've done both. The water was nice, but slow, and required more energy; gliding on favorable breezes is much much different in a very positive way, and certainly covers more territory and viewpoint. It's the best way to arrive at and depart from outdoor social gatherings. Keep at it. You're doing great! .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Unconditional DATE: 16-May-06 22:34:57 HOST: sverige The problem with self-love is that it interferes with your ability to love others; and it interferes with others' ability to love you; and it accomplishes nothing positive in the process. Those who have not been parents are insufficiently experienced in love to provide much authority in a consideration of "unconditional". Besides, you can't prove a negative anyway, especially to those who have the positive experience. You should however regularily examine yourself, and reform your self as required in order to be able to respect in others those virtues by which they respect you. For more insightful thoughts, type 'smj' at the shell prompt. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Unconditional DATE: 16-May-06 22:34:57 HOST: sverige The problem with self-love is that it interferes with your ability to love others; and it interferes with others' ability to love you; and it accomplishes nothing positive in the process. Those who have not been parents are insufficiently experienced in love to provide much authority in a consideration of "unconditional". Besides, you can't prove a negative anyway, especially to those who have the positive experience. You should however regularily examine yourself, and reform your self as required in order to be able to respect in others those virtues by which they respect you. For more insightful thoughts, type 'smj' at the shell prompt. .....TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. ok this is embarrassing DATE: 20-Mar-06 12:42:30 HOST: sverige README The names of these are controlled both by the users .htaccess file and by the server config. Sometimes it is necessary to append '.html' Here at SDF the following works: Options +Indexes HeaderName HEADER.html ReadmeName README.html [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. ok this is embarrassing DATE: 20-Mar-06 12:42:30 HOST: sverige README The names of these are controlled both by the users .htaccess file and by the server config. Sometimes it is necessary to append '.html' Here at SDF the following works: Options +Indexes HeaderName HEADER.html ReadmeName README.html ..........TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. where does one find... DATE: 27-May-06 12:32:16 HOST: sverige "I prefer discordianism to zen, it's a lot funnier" Oh! in that case, you're looking for the Swami .... Swami Beyondananda (for Precedent) provides among other things Absurdiveness Training Contact him at http://www.wakeuplaughing.com/ [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. where does one find... DATE: 27-May-06 12:32:16 HOST: sverige "I prefer discordianism to zen, it's a lot funnier" Oh! in that case, you're looking for the Swami .... Swami Beyondananda (for Precedent) provides among other things Absurdiveness Training Contact him at http://www.wakeuplaughing.com/ ...TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Hispanic Leaders Speak Out DATE: 28-Mar-06 12:10:11 HOST: sverige Unevolved humans are filled with self-love, hatred, and greed. They are destroying America from the inside out, and others along the way, and the planet's life-sustaining resources, and ultimately humankind itself which will self-destruct just as other species lines evolving forth from the very first "breath of life into mankind" which was ancestral even to Mitochondrial Eve. Sixth Great Extinction is well under way, led by megalomanic psychopathic global capitalists, bred in and fostered by the USA, whose only deities are power and profit and whose greatest loves are the exploitation of all other people and things. Where once stood a great nation, truly "leader of the free world", lies today the cesspool of criminality, corruption, and hypocrisy, void of virtue, ethic, and conscience. And they're hell bent on taking every one else and every thing down with them. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Hispanic Leaders Speak Out DATE: 28-Mar-06 12:10:11 HOST: sverige Unevolved humans are filled with self-love, hatred, and greed. They are destroying America from the inside out, and others along the way, and the planet's life-sustaining resources, and ultimately humankind itself which will self-destruct just as other species lines evolving forth from the very first "breath of life into mankind" which was ancestral even to Mitochondrial Eve. Sixth Great Extinction is well under way, led by megalomanic psychopathic global capitalists, bred in and fostered by the USA, whose only deities are power and profit and whose greatest loves are the exploitation of all other people and things. Where once stood a great nation, truly "leader of the free world", lies today the cesspool of criminality, corruption, and hypocrisy, void of virtue, ethic, and conscience. And they're hell bent on taking every one else and every thing down with them. ..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. What happens when you die? DATE: 30-Oct-06 04:08:07 HOST: sverige Life on earth is a physical, natural, experience, stuck in time and space. There is a spiritual life which is not bound by time and space, or by natural or physical constraints. Most of this know this in a number of different ways, through dreaming, through love, through imagination, for instance. Our spiritual self is our ultimate essence (formed by the decisions we make, which identify what it is that we truly love). Our natural bodies are just a covering. Sometimes our outward personna is a mask. Sometimes our behaviors are a pretense. What we call "death" is the death of those natural, physical, and superficial components. Our spirit ("ruling loves"? soul?) is not physically bound within time and space. It survives, without the ailments of its former physical trappings, and without pretense. -- since you asked [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. What happens when you die? DATE: 30-Oct-06 04:08:07 HOST: sverige Life on earth is a physical, natural, experience, stuck in time and space. There is a spiritual life which is not bound by time and space, or by natural or physical constraints. Most of this know this in a number of different ways, through dreaming, through love, through imagination, for instance. Our spiritual self is our ultimate essence (formed by the decisions we make, which identify what it is that we truly love). Our natural bodies are just a covering. Sometimes our outward personna is a mask. Sometimes our behaviors are a pretense. What we call "death" is the death of those natural, physical, and superficial components. Our spirit ("ruling loves"? soul?) is not physically bound within time and space. It survives, without the ailments of its former physical trappings, and without pretense. -- since you asked TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. What happens when you die? DATE: 30-Oct-06 21:32:06 HOST: sverige In response, belief is not required. Neither is understanding, faith, or association with a religious order or any denomination. It's just sort of the way it is. Our "state" at and after death is what we've made of it while here, consciously or not, by the decisions which we make. I don't see anything mysterious or magical or unreasonable about that. Do you? [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. What happens when you die? DATE: 30-Oct-06 21:32:06 HOST: sverige In response, belief is not required. Neither is understanding, faith, or association with a religious order or any denomination. It's just sort of the way it is. Our "state" at and after death is what we've made of it while here, consciously or not, by the decisions which we make. I don't see anything mysterious or magical or unreasonable about that. Do you? TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. What happens when you die? DATE: 30-Oct-06 21:39:38 HOST: sverige > There is a spiritual life which is not bound by time and space, Assumption > or by natural or physical constraints. Assumption NOT assumption. Sorry you've missed out on it so far. Hopefully you'll awaken to it sooner or later. But I can't help with that; other than to assure you that it's there by my experience whether you've found it or not. Like lots of things really. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. What happens when you die? DATE: 30-Oct-06 21:39:38 HOST: sverige > There is a spiritual life which is not bound by time and space, Assumption > or by natural or physical constraints. Assumption NOT assumption. Sorry you've missed out on it so far. Hopefully you'll awaken to it sooner or later. But I can't help with that; other than to assure you that it's there by my experience whether you've found it or not. Like lots of things really. ....TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. So MetaARPA is 'just another membership' now .. DATE: 03-Feb-06 02:20:40 HOST: sverige I think there should be membership levels based upon length of Meta-ARPA membership, not about dollars donated. By "length" I refer specifically to number of consecutive years as a Meta-ARPA member. Designations of Meta-n for n years of consecutive alliance. The levels would have honor and prestige; they would be trusted members because if anybody misbehaves or otherwise pisses off smj, their counter would be reset. One way it might work would be to make available specific "trusted" features to each new level of trust. If the trust is abused, the user/abuser gets knocked back however many levels deemed appropriate by smj. This is the first thinking I've done on this, so it's had zero critical review; and I've no idea how to implement it even if it is a good idea; but there, you have it; and I can go back to thinking about other things more within my sphere of competence. --avo [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. So MetaARPA is 'just another membership' now .. DATE: 03-Feb-06 02:20:40 HOST: sverige I think there should be membership levels based upon length of Meta-ARPA membership, not about dollars donated. By "length" I refer specifically to number of consecutive years as a Meta-ARPA member. Designations of Meta-n for n years of consecutive alliance. The levels would have honor and prestige; they would be trusted members because if anybody misbehaves or otherwise pisses off smj, their counter would be reset. One way it might work would be to make available specific "trusted" features to each new level of trust. If the trust is abused, the user/abuser gets knocked back however many levels deemed appropriate by smj. This is the first thinking I've done on this, so it's had zero critical review; and I've no idea how to implement it even if it is a good idea; but there, you have it; and I can go back to thinking about other things more within my sphere of competence. --avo TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. So MetaARPA is 'just another membership' now .. DATE: 05-Feb-06 06:01:11 HOST: sverige When/How did Meta-ARPA member[s] determine that they could run tor here? PID USERNAME PRI NICE SIZE RES STATE TIME WCPU CPU COM 9182 -------- 68 4 3344K 1464K RUN 17:39 37.60% 37.60% tor 19256 -------- 2 4 64M 65M kqread 56:43 23.97% 23.97% tor [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. So MetaARPA is 'just another membership' now .. DATE: 05-Feb-06 06:01:11 HOST: sverige When/How did Meta-ARPA member[s] determine that they could run tor here? PID USERNAME PRI NICE SIZE RES STATE TIME WCPU CPU COM 9182 -------- 68 4 3344K 1464K RUN 17:39 37.60% 37.60% tor 19256 -------- 2 4 64M 65M kqread 56:43 23.97% 23.97% tor ..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. A few POKER related sites on SDF .. DATE: 03-Apr-06 18:58:24 HOST: sverige I remember the "non-commercial" part. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. A few POKER related sites on SDF .. DATE: 03-Apr-06 18:58:24 HOST: sverige I remember the "non-commercial" part. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. A few POKER related sites on SDF .. DATE: 05-Apr-06 14:42:05 HOST: sverige While the free-for-all and click-banner sites are possibly more repugnant than a family craft outlet or church fundraiser, they are all utilizing an online presence for the purpose of making money, and that VHOST membership seems appropriate to that activity, regardless of who or how or why. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. A few POKER related sites on SDF .. DATE: 05-Apr-06 14:42:05 HOST: sverige While the free-for-all and click-banner sites are possibly more repugnant than a family craft outlet or church fundraiser, they are all utilizing an online presence for the purpose of making money, and that VHOST membership seems appropriate to that activity, regardless of who or how or why. ..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Malicious user has been crashing SDF systems DATE: 05-May-06 20:56:10 HOST: sverige "Should he stay or go? YES/NO/ABSTAIN" Aside from the fact that "stay or go?" and "yes or no" are mutually exclusive, I was originally going to just say "I defer to you, smj." because I cannot speak to the technical issues involved here. But I can say that this user shows a whole heck of a lot more sincerity than that last twit who was collectively reviewed here recently. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Malicious user has been crashing SDF systems DATE: 05-May-06 20:56:10 HOST: sverige "Should he stay or go? YES/NO/ABSTAIN" Aside from the fact that "stay or go?" and "yes or no" are mutually exclusive, I was originally going to just say "I defer to you, smj." because I cannot speak to the technical issues involved here. But I can say that this user shows a whole heck of a lot more sincerity than that last twit who was collectively reviewed here recently. .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. sverige listen port forwarding possible? DATE: 06-Jun-06 11:09:17 HOST: sverige For some background, an archive search in 2006 for 'sshd' turned it up right away in the HELPDESK board from March. I don't know how to point to it directly. It was number 83 at the time, but I don't think that's static. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. sverige listen port forwarding possible? DATE: 06-Jun-06 11:09:17 HOST: sverige For some background, an archive search in 2006 for 'sshd' turned it up right away in the HELPDESK board from March. I don't know how to point to it directly. It was number 83 at the time, but I don't think that's static. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. 'tor' discussion DATE: 07-Feb-06 15:04:37 HOST: sverige Thanks for the research and report, mcqueeno. Can a server be configured so that it contributes to the circuit without being an "exit point"? Even with bandwidth usage, I suspicious and curious that there will be an unfavorable load of connections on the SDF host and immediate routes in and out. So we may be talking about donating performance as well as bandwidth. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. 'tor' discussion DATE: 07-Feb-06 15:04:37 HOST: sverige Thanks for the research and report, mcqueeno. Can a server be configured so that it contributes to the circuit without being an "exit point"? Even with bandwidth usage, I suspicious and curious that there will be an unfavorable load of connections on the SDF host and immediate routes in and out. So we may be talking about donating performance as well as bandwidth. TACKER: mcqueeno (brian mcqueen) SUBJECT: .. 'tor' discussion DATE: 07-Feb-06 17:30:34 HOST: sverige Re: avoyager's note Regarding the exit-node issue. They have made it quite simple to configure the server to NOT be an exit node. That seems to be a common server configuration. Donating resources IS what it amounts to. With throttling or other built-in resource limiting options this could be kept acceptably low. They have built-in bandwidth limits, user-quota based limits, and complete filtering of sockets and ports. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: mcqueeno (brian mcqueen) SUBJECT: .. 'tor' discussion DATE: 07-Feb-06 17:30:34 HOST: sverige Re: avoyager's note Regarding the exit-node issue. They have made it quite simple to configure the server to NOT be an exit node. That seems to be a common server configuration. Donating resources IS what it amounts to. With throttling or other built-in resource limiting options this could be kept acceptably low. They have built-in bandwidth limits, user-quota based limits, and complete filtering of sockets and ports. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. 'tor' discussion DATE: 07-Feb-06 19:06:46 HOST: sverige corster: an http proxy (and tor for that matter) running on sverige could be bound to listen only on its localhost interface, which would make it available only to sverige users, including via SSH tunnel. mcqueeno: I'm concerned that even with severe bandwidth/user/etc. throttling of the application, there will still be an extreme network load of incoming connection attempts which would load the nearby firewalls, routers, etc. and tie up the pipe. But I don't know for sure. Certainly Stephen can talk to this issue. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. 'tor' discussion DATE: 07-Feb-06 19:06:46 HOST: sverige corster: an http proxy (and tor for that matter) running on sverige could be bound to listen only on its localhost interface, which would make it available only to sverige users, including via SSH tunnel. mcqueeno: I'm concerned that even with severe bandwidth/user/etc. throttling of the application, there will still be an extreme network load of incoming connection attempts which would load the nearby firewalls, routers, etc. and tie up the pipe. But I don't know for sure. Certainly Stephen can talk to this issue. ..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Successful sdf ssh2 http proxy DATE: 13-Apr-06 03:17:26 HOST: sverige poff, your syntax is not consistent with OpenSSH but I'm NOT going to deny your experience. SSH is capable of providing a SOCKS proxy on the server end of the tunnel, but it can be, and last I checked it was, disabled by the server. The hardship on SDF for providing socks or http proxy service for members is that all traffic from the remote host to the local user goes through SDF two times! once in and once out. And that's a significant resource load on the server and a bandwidth load in and out. There is (at least) one other "situation" encountered when users browse through such proxies. For all the good reasons to anonymize some connections, the standard browser configuration for proxy use deploys the proxy for ALL remote hosts, not selectively. That can result in a lot of traffic which doesn't really need to be proxied, running into and out of SDF servers. Some file/program downloads aren't easily accessible from ftp or wget due to their forced http download implementations. (grabbing files from SourceForge by wget requires extra steps many users won't bother with) One way to address this matter is to run local privoxy (.org) and maintain its configuration to forward specific sites to a proxy, but frankly most users won't go down that road either. There are services available to provide such anonymizing or privacy services; and they rightly cost more than Meta-ARPA membership on SDF. Furthermore, they are privacy services, not shell community fortress social experiments. In short, a different market. But hey, if SDF can do webmail, it can do anything, eh? A well connected P2P user could bring the server to a grinding halt unless Stephen spends effort monitoring and throttling its usage. That said, I mean only to contribute to the discussion, not to kill it. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Successful sdf ssh2 http proxy DATE: 13-Apr-06 03:17:26 HOST: sverige poff, your syntax is not consistent with OpenSSH but I'm NOT going to deny your experience. SSH is capable of providing a SOCKS proxy on the server end of the tunnel, but it can be, and last I checked it was, disabled by the server. The hardship on SDF for providing socks or http proxy service for members is that all traffic from the remote host to the local user goes through SDF two times! once in and once out. And that's a significant resource load on the server and a bandwidth load in and out. There is (at least) one other "situation" encountered when users browse through such proxies. For all the good reasons to anonymize some connections, the standard browser configuration for proxy use deploys the proxy for ALL remote hosts, not selectively. That can result in a lot of traffic which doesn't really need to be proxied, running into and out of SDF servers. Some file/program downloads aren't easily accessible from ftp or wget due to their forced http download implementations. (grabbing files from SourceForge by wget requires extra steps many users won't bother with) One way to address this matter is to run local privoxy (.org) and maintain its configuration to forward specific sites to a proxy, but frankly most users won't go down that road either. There are services available to provide such anonymizing or privacy services; and they rightly cost more than Meta-ARPA membership on SDF. Furthermore, they are privacy services, not shell community fortress social experiments. In short, a different market. But hey, if SDF can do webmail, it can do anything, eh? A well connected P2P user could bring the server to a grinding halt unless Stephen spends effort monitoring and throttling its usage. That said, I mean only to contribute to the discussion, not to kill it. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Successful sdf ssh2 http proxy DATE: 13-Apr-06 19:35:58 HOST: sverige Thanks, poff, for clarifying the ssh2=ssh.com matter. I'd forgotten about them :) Tunnelling is a good thing. For instance, MetaARPA members can SSH into SDF and use the connection to tunnel their POP3 connections, encrypted from their computer to SDF; or to create a tunnel to their favorite IRC network host. SSH tunnels encrypt traffic between the client and the SSH server, but not between the SSH server and the remote host. Also, tunnels are not proxys; tunnels connect one local port to one remote host:port whereas a proxy (http or socks) connects one proxy port to many/any different remote hosts. And finally, just to be complete not insulting, http proxies forward only http traffic while socks proxies forward anything (maybe restricted to tcp). Not that I think nobody doesn't already know these things, but just in case some reader never got around to thinking about them. I use tunnels and proxy to secure computers behind the local gateway. Gateway firewall blocks all traffic into and out of the local computers. Local computers send http to a proxy on gateway; IM traffic to SSH tunnel functioning as SOCKS proxy; mail traffic can be opened in firewall, forced through gateway mailhost, or opened thru firewall. The gatewway proxy is privoxy.org and selectively forwards some sites to a standard tunnel-to-unfiltered-proxy; other sites to tunnel-to-filtering-proxy, other sites to tunnel-to-tor, and other sites direct connect without additional forwarding; of those some are filtered locally and others not. Can't beat that for configurability, eh? Now, it's possible to tunnel thru a tunnel. For instance, create a tunnel to SDF with a remote end configured for another SSHD server; then locally SSH to the localport end of the SDF tunnel, connecting to the remote host. If that host had an http proxy on it, then the whole double traffic load would bear upon SDF quite needlessly. That said, and even though SSH connections are encrypted without tunnel, I connect to SDF via a tunnel because it provides a cleaner, if longer, route to SDF. When I connect directly, the route often exhibits >12% packet loss. The route from the other SSHd server to SDF performs much better for me. This post has gone on way too long :) [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Successful sdf ssh2 http proxy DATE: 13-Apr-06 19:35:58 HOST: sverige Thanks, poff, for clarifying the ssh2=ssh.com matter. I'd forgotten about them :) Tunnelling is a good thing. For instance, MetaARPA members can SSH into SDF and use the connection to tunnel their POP3 connections, encrypted from their computer to SDF; or to create a tunnel to their favorite IRC network host. SSH tunnels encrypt traffic between the client and the SSH server, but not between the SSH server and the remote host. Also, tunnels are not proxys; tunnels connect one local port to one remote host:port whereas a proxy (http or socks) connects one proxy port to many/any different remote hosts. And finally, just to be complete not insulting, http proxies forward only http traffic while socks proxies forward anything (maybe restricted to tcp). Not that I think nobody doesn't already know these things, but just in case some reader never got around to thinking about them. I use tunnels and proxy to secure computers behind the local gateway. Gateway firewall blocks all traffic into and out of the local computers. Local computers send http to a proxy on gateway; IM traffic to SSH tunnel functioning as SOCKS proxy; mail traffic can be opened in firewall, forced through gateway mailhost, or opened thru firewall. The gatewway proxy is privoxy.org and selectively forwards some sites to a standard tunnel-to-unfiltered-proxy; other sites to tunnel-to-filtering-proxy, other sites to tunnel-to-tor, and other sites direct connect without additional forwarding; of those some are filtered locally and others not. Can't beat that for configurability, eh? Now, it's possible to tunnel thru a tunnel. For instance, create a tunnel to SDF with a remote end configured for another SSHD server; then locally SSH to the localport end of the SDF tunnel, connecting to the remote host. If that host had an http proxy on it, then the whole double traffic load would bear upon SDF quite needlessly. That said, and even though SSH connections are encrypted without tunnel, I connect to SDF via a tunnel because it provides a cleaner, if longer, route to SDF. When I connect directly, the route often exhibits >12% packet loss. The route from the other SSHd server to SDF performs much better for me. This post has gone on way too long :) ...TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Permission tutorial DATE: 18-Mar-06 14:29:06 HOST: sverige affirmative, cor. The most important thing about `which smj` is its man page. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Permission tutorial DATE: 18-Mar-06 14:29:06 HOST: sverige affirmative, cor. The most important thing about `which smj` is its man page. .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. FTP access for validated members DATE: 19-Nov-06 18:54:30 HOST: sverige "I believe that bad things can also be done using e-mail for upload and http for download, if somebody tries to infect other machines;" I agree. "so I do not currently see a security advantage in excluding 'users' from FTP" There's something of a security advantage in NOT trasmitting login:pass in cleartext from who-knows-where. Email to the 'user' group may have size limitation which reduces that overload potential, and threat ?? [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. FTP access for validated members DATE: 19-Nov-06 18:54:30 HOST: sverige "I believe that bad things can also be done using e-mail for upload and http for download, if somebody tries to infect other machines;" I agree. "so I do not currently see a security advantage in excluding 'users' from FTP" There's something of a security advantage in NOT trasmitting login:pass in cleartext from who-knows-where. Email to the 'user' group may have size limitation which reduces that overload potential, and threat ?? ..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Two things are clear DATE: 22-Oct-06 03:31:12 HOST: sverige we all are [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Two things are clear DATE: 22-Oct-06 03:31:12 HOST: sverige we all are ......TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. de-commercializing the Internet DATE: 12-Jul-06 02:41:36 HOST: sverige If removing ads is your interest, use proxy from privoxy.org. NON is more than that. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. de-commercializing the Internet DATE: 12-Jul-06 02:41:36 HOST: sverige If removing ads is your interest, use proxy from privoxy.org. NON is more than that. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Leenux users DATE: 04-Sep-06 06:01:34 HOST: sdf Forum specialization, like IRC Channel specialization, like The Industrial Revolution, provides an [obvious] solution to such gripes about novice questions interfering with advanced questions interfering with development questions interfering with maintenance questions interfering with the other questions interfering with novice questions. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Leenux users DATE: 04-Sep-06 06:01:34 HOST: sdf Forum specialization, like IRC Channel specialization, like The Industrial Revolution, provides an [obvious] solution to such gripes about novice questions interfering with advanced questions interfering with development questions interfering with maintenance questions interfering with the other questions interfering with novice questions. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Leenux users DATE: 06-Sep-06 19:49:09 HOST: sverige "Some of the old-school tuxes who are no longer a part of any user's group or association grimace the development community is trying too hard to make their distributions' front-ends look & work like M$ Winduhs." *_IF_* there is an objective to move existing users away from MS, then such an ititiatve would likely be more productive than not. No doubt there are additional development groups who are customizing their own style of user interfaces as well. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Leenux users DATE: 06-Sep-06 19:49:09 HOST: sverige "Some of the old-school tuxes who are no longer a part of any user's group or association grimace the development community is trying too hard to make their distributions' front-ends look & work like M$ Winduhs." *_IF_* there is an objective to move existing users away from MS, then such an ititiatve would likely be more productive than not. No doubt there are additional development groups who are customizing their own style of user interfaces as well. .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Leenux users DATE: 12-Sep-06 04:04:47 HOST: sverige I think the idea behind bbcode is to enable a subset of html easily; by either ignoring or not rendering and enabling/rendering [tags]; and that keeping the 'b' was in all ways reasonbale. If so, then it's not that they (everyone but you) are stupid; but rather that you just don't yet see or understand their motivations .... .... which, by the way, in ALL aspects of life, IS the case. and rightly so. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Leenux users DATE: 12-Sep-06 04:04:47 HOST: sverige I think the idea behind bbcode is to enable a subset of html easily; by either ignoring or not rendering and enabling/rendering [tags]; and that keeping the 'b' was in all ways reasonbale. If so, then it's not that they (everyone but you) are stupid; but rather that you just don't yet see or understand their motivations .... .... which, by the way, in ALL aspects of life, IS the case. and rightly so. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. "Rationalists" DATE: 03-Nov-06 14:15:19 HOST: sverige Stephen, You may have too few generalized categories there :) In particular, I'd urge you to realize that much if not most of what goes on around this planet as "spirituality" is nowhere near "extreme". It is in fact supra-peaceful and very much out of your face. The loudest group in any discussion is almost always domniated by political zealots whose only "religion" is to conform others into their personal worldview, using whichever tools and exploitations they find convenient. The so called "religious right" is the grandest conveniency for them, in part because it matches their model for hypocrisy. Claiming to believe in Jesus conveniently makes Muslims and Jews to be "evil", while anything having to do with peace, goodwill, and brotherhood is appropriated to themselves alone, NOT to be shared with others or spread across the community of any size greater than their close circle of benefactors. So, the problem I have with your categorizations is that the group labelled as Religious/Spiritual Extremists really have no spirituality or religion at all, other than self-engrandizement. Their only deity is material possession, collective power over others, and self-glorification. (as can be plainly seen) Now as it happens I have an uncle who has become immersed in the pseudo-theology of the "religious right", and as far as he can see, that group I just described can do no wrong; and to him only they, and himself an his ilk, have been somehow or another "saved" while the rest of us aren't worth a pot to spit in. He used to teach math and science; but he wouldn't let his daughters date in high school. These are the group which your pseudo-rational atheists choose to confront. And I don't know why they bother; they're just as delusioned and hypocritical and self-serving as their targets, claiming "science" as their "religion" while cherry-picking the facts and taking no account whatsoever of the errors within their observation and analyses. (as can be less plainly seen) That said, I certainly do appreciate your bringing it up. It's a good start, and I trust that someone will take this discussion to the next step. - avo [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. "Rationalists" DATE: 03-Nov-06 14:15:19 HOST: sverige Stephen, You may have too few generalized categories there :) In particular, I'd urge you to realize that much if not most of what goes on around this planet as "spirituality" is nowhere near "extreme". It is in fact supra-peaceful and very much out of your face. The loudest group in any discussion is almost always domniated by political zealots whose only "religion" is to conform others into their personal worldview, using whichever tools and exploitations they find convenient. The so called "religious right" is the grandest conveniency for them, in part because it matches their model for hypocrisy. Claiming to believe in Jesus conveniently makes Muslims and Jews to be "evil", while anything having to do with peace, goodwill, and brotherhood is appropriated to themselves alone, NOT to be shared with others or spread across the community of any size greater than their close circle of benefactors. So, the problem I have with your categorizations is that the group labelled as Religious/Spiritual Extremists really have no spirituality or religion at all, other than self-engrandizement. Their only deity is material possession, collective power over others, and self-glorification. (as can be plainly seen) Now as it happens I have an uncle who has become immersed in the pseudo-theology of the "religious right", and as far as he can see, that group I just described can do no wrong; and to him only they, and himself an his ilk, have been somehow or another "saved" while the rest of us aren't worth a pot to spit in. He used to teach math and science; but he wouldn't let his daughters date in high school. These are the group which your pseudo-rational atheists choose to confront. And I don't know why they bother; they're just as delusioned and hypocritical and self-serving as their targets, claiming "science" as their "religion" while cherry-picking the facts and taking no account whatsoever of the errors within their observation and analyses. (as can be less plainly seen) That said, I certainly do appreciate your bringing it up. It's a good start, and I trust that someone will take this discussion to the next step. - avo TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. "Rationalists" DATE: 03-Nov-06 14:44:21 HOST: sverige "Do the extremists realise that experience doesn't indicate truth?" Well now, if there is any such thing as pure truth at all, wouldn't it be experience itself? Do you accept truths which you don't experience? How can experience by anything other than truth? Even illusion is itself a truth. The fact that you saw the man swallow the flaming sword is true. The notion that the man did in fact swallow the flaming sword is a derivation, an appearance, an illusion, whatever you want to call it; but it is true that that is what you saw; and it is not appropriate for others to deny that; or for others to conclude that because it was your experience then the even was false or not truth. Heisenberg pointed that out long ago. As to whether or not this whole consideration even merits anyones efforts, it could be noted that it has done so across all civilizations across all time; and it doesn't show any likely sign of ceasing. Carl Jung went around the globe studying the human psyche. He discovered a human concept of something beyond itself everywhere. But you know, folks can get full blown phD doctorates and degrees in psychology without ever having to read anything Jung wrote. That's like a degree in U.S. history without ever knowing about the Vietnam war and Richard Nixon. The study of mythology is enjoyable and rewarding; and integral to any study of the development of civilization. Now, but not earlier, the sciences of psychology and philosophy are accepted; and it is acknowledged that as humans we have a psychology and a philosophy, whether we're conscious of it or not. I maintain, from research, consdieration, discussion, and experience, that we also have a theology operative within us as well. But then, not everybody has the time or attention to bring to bear on such presumably remote considerations. After all, the grain farmer hardly concerns himself with the plight of the manatees. To him, they don't exist. Period. - avo [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. "Rationalists" DATE: 03-Nov-06 14:44:21 HOST: sverige "Do the extremists realise that experience doesn't indicate truth?" Well now, if there is any such thing as pure truth at all, wouldn't it be experience itself? Do you accept truths which you don't experience? How can experience by anything other than truth? Even illusion is itself a truth. The fact that you saw the man swallow the flaming sword is true. The notion that the man did in fact swallow the flaming sword is a derivation, an appearance, an illusion, whatever you want to call it; but it is true that that is what you saw; and it is not appropriate for others to deny that; or for others to conclude that because it was your experience then the even was false or not truth. Heisenberg pointed that out long ago. As to whether or not this whole consideration even merits anyones efforts, it could be noted that it has done so across all civilizations across all time; and it doesn't show any likely sign of ceasing. Carl Jung went around the globe studying the human psyche. He discovered a human concept of something beyond itself everywhere. But you know, folks can get full blown phD doctorates and degrees in psychology without ever having to read anything Jung wrote. That's like a degree in U.S. history without ever knowing about the Vietnam war and Richard Nixon. The study of mythology is enjoyable and rewarding; and integral to any study of the development of civilization. Now, but not earlier, the sciences of psychology and philosophy are accepted; and it is acknowledged that as humans we have a psychology and a philosophy, whether we're conscious of it or not. I maintain, from research, consdieration, discussion, and experience, that we also have a theology operative within us as well. But then, not everybody has the time or attention to bring to bear on such presumably remote considerations. After all, the grain farmer hardly concerns himself with the plight of the manatees. To him, they don't exist. Period. - avo TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. "Rationalists" DATE: 04-Nov-06 02:31:19 HOST: sverige Nice points, gentlemen. Thank you. One of the other fascinating values of experience observed in this context is that it (the diversity of experience, or 'they' (the diverse experiences themselves), show us something of the error inherent in our own observations. If you see it as blue, while I see it as green, then my understanding of its color has a measured 50% uncertainty. Grand stuff, knowing how wrong we are. I couldn't live without it. And, since "you can't prove a negative", positions that "there is not a God" are pretty ridiculous indeed. Eh. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. "Rationalists" DATE: 04-Nov-06 02:31:19 HOST: sverige Nice points, gentlemen. Thank you. One of the other fascinating values of experience observed in this context is that it (the diversity of experience, or 'they' (the diverse experiences themselves), show us something of the error inherent in our own observations. If you see it as blue, while I see it as green, then my understanding of its color has a measured 50% uncertainty. Grand stuff, knowing how wrong we are. I couldn't live without it. And, since "you can't prove a negative", positions that "there is not a God" are pretty ridiculous indeed. Eh. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. "Rationalists" DATE: 04-Nov-06 12:41:36 HOST: sverige Thanks Stephen. I'll clarify further. Believing IS subjective. And it's both fine and reasonable to not have a belief in a God. It's a different thing to take an active belief that a God does not exist. That position has a high degree of uncertainty, measured by the observations of any random sample; whereas by the same measure of uncertainty, a belief that a God does exist has a lower degree of uncertainty. To state any negative (such as there is no God, or no life on other planets) as a fact or truth, is ...um... ridiculous? especially if it's wrapped in the flag of "science says so". [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. "Rationalists" DATE: 04-Nov-06 12:41:36 HOST: sverige Thanks Stephen. I'll clarify further. Believing IS subjective. And it's both fine and reasonable to not have a belief in a God. It's a different thing to take an active belief that a God does not exist. That position has a high degree of uncertainty, measured by the observations of any random sample; whereas by the same measure of uncertainty, a belief that a God does exist has a lower degree of uncertainty. To state any negative (such as there is no God, or no life on other planets) as a fact or truth, is ...um... ridiculous? especially if it's wrapped in the flag of "science says so". TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. fake unknown host dns results DATE: 11-Sep-06 18:27:19 HOST: sverige deanna, I use a couple different "tricks" with my local DNS for this and other purposes. (Bind8/9) zone "ads.web.aol.com" in { type master; file "nullify.zone"; }; zone "freshell.org" in { type master; file "nullify.zone"; }; zone "freeshell.com" in { type master; file "nullify.zone"; }; server 216.234.224.39 { bogus yes; }; // ns1.freehostweb.com 2001-02 file nullify.zone: $TTL 86400; @ IN SOA localhost. root.localhost. ( 1 36000 1200 604800 86400 ) IN NS @ and/or ... acl "poisoned_servers" {ú 216.234.224.39;ú };ú blackhole { poisoned_servers; }; The effectiveness of these kinds of things depend on whether you browse thru a remote proxy which uses its DNS rather than yours; and whether your name server is recursive; and whether you list ALL the servers which name the entities you're trying to avoid. Note that it's useful, and interesting! to use lynx or some other tool to see just which site serves those bad-domain pages. For instance, the freshell.org page is served up by oingo.com; browsing to oingo.com goes to appliedsemantics.com which gleefully declares that they have been acquired by google. The freeshell.com page hosts a mess of links sponsored by googlesyndication.com. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. fake unknown host dns results DATE: 11-Sep-06 18:27:19 HOST: sverige deanna, I use a couple different "tricks" with my local DNS for this and other purposes. (Bind8/9) zone "ads.web.aol.com" in { type master; file "nullify.zone"; }; zone "freshell.org" in { type master; file "nullify.zone"; }; zone "freeshell.com" in { type master; file "nullify.zone"; }; server 216.234.224.39 { bogus yes; }; // ns1.freehostweb.com 2001-02 file nullify.zone: $TTL 86400; @ IN SOA localhost. root.localhost. ( 1 36000 1200 604800 86400 ) IN NS @ and/or ... acl "poisoned_servers" {ú 216.234.224.39;ú };ú blackhole { poisoned_servers; }; The effectiveness of these kinds of things depend on whether you browse thru a remote proxy which uses its DNS rather than yours; and whether your name server is recursive; and whether you list ALL the servers which name the entities you're trying to avoid. Note that it's useful, and interesting! to use lynx or some other tool to see just which site serves those bad-domain pages. For instance, the freshell.org page is served up by oingo.com; browsing to oingo.com goes to appliedsemantics.com which gleefully declares that they have been acquired by google. The freeshell.com page hosts a mess of links sponsored by googlesyndication.com. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. fake unknown host dns results DATE: 24-Sep-06 20:05:38 HOST: sverige maybe null route their IPs [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. fake unknown host dns results DATE: 24-Sep-06 20:05:38 HOST: sverige maybe null route their IPs .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Spam?? DATE: 23-Oct-06 01:58:17 HOST: sverige noting that JunkMail (postal) pays for its transportation to your door, while Spam (email) steals its transportation services from others. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Spam?? DATE: 23-Oct-06 01:58:17 HOST: sverige noting that JunkMail (postal) pays for its transportation to your door, while Spam (email) steals its transportation services from others. ...TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. New kneejerk TSA regulations DATE: 12-Aug-06 14:08:07 HOST: sverige "The TSA pigs have fallen for it hook, line, and sinker!" I don't think TSA controls the Ashcroft color flags; but that TSA is just the labor force which enforces the mandates handed to them. From what I've read, there's no rational cause to disallow passenger drinking water or flight crew toothpaste. Those restrictions are probably generated by Karl Rove's political machine. I did enjoy reading about how this very same "threat" was disrupted in 1995 without ever affecting public air travel, or ever broadcasting to the general population how easy it could be for average dumb-shit to actually execute such a plan. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. New kneejerk TSA regulations DATE: 12-Aug-06 14:08:07 HOST: sverige "The TSA pigs have fallen for it hook, line, and sinker!" I don't think TSA controls the Ashcroft color flags; but that TSA is just the labor force which enforces the mandates handed to them. From what I've read, there's no rational cause to disallow passenger drinking water or flight crew toothpaste. Those restrictions are probably generated by Karl Rove's political machine. I did enjoy reading about how this very same "threat" was disrupted in 1995 without ever affecting public air travel, or ever broadcasting to the general population how easy it could be for average dumb-shit to actually execute such a plan. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. New kneejerk TSA regulations DATE: 26-Aug-06 19:41:46 HOST: sverige Maybe next time your'e bored, you can rethink the clauses about causing hurricanes and getting the UN to agree with him. Those being the easier obstacles to your next breakfast. The more difficult one is to adjust your conceptualization from "causing" of such things as the WTC collapse and the Republican Culture of Corruption, to a more realistic "permission" of such things; and "provocation" of others such as the endless bloodshed throughout the middle east. After all that, it'll be time to review the whole she-bang one more time yet again :) --with your oatmeal. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. New kneejerk TSA regulations DATE: 26-Aug-06 19:41:46 HOST: sverige Maybe next time your'e bored, you can rethink the clauses about causing hurricanes and getting the UN to agree with him. Those being the easier obstacles to your next breakfast. The more difficult one is to adjust your conceptualization from "causing" of such things as the WTC collapse and the Republican Culture of Corruption, to a more realistic "permission" of such things; and "provocation" of others such as the endless bloodshed throughout the middle east. After all that, it'll be time to review the whole she-bang one more time yet again :) --with your oatmeal. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. New kneejerk TSA regulations DATE: 27-Aug-06 07:22:54 HOST: sverige "Yes, we have no bananas." No, there is no political solution. All religions teach and honor peace, love, and brotherhood. Operational democracy in the U.S. does not resemble the textbooks, or the Constitution. Theoretical democracy is a fine idea for a model of societal governance. Capitalism is a fine idea as an economic model, as the tool of a government. Citizens do not create governments to be the tools of another's economic policies. There is no political solution, and "Yes, we have no bananas." [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. New kneejerk TSA regulations DATE: 27-Aug-06 07:22:54 HOST: sverige "Yes, we have no bananas." No, there is no political solution. All religions teach and honor peace, love, and brotherhood. Operational democracy in the U.S. does not resemble the textbooks, or the Constitution. Theoretical democracy is a fine idea for a model of societal governance. Capitalism is a fine idea as an economic model, as the tool of a government. Citizens do not create governments to be the tools of another's economic policies. There is no political solution, and "Yes, we have no bananas." ..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. paypal DATE: 13-Feb-06 13:47:38 HOST: sverige It seems I have to pay $2 to paypal to set up the account; that's not worth bitching about; but after that I have to jump thru hoops and wait until next monthly statement arrives because it will disclose my secret code which I have to return to paypal before they'll let me use my VERIFIED Visa to fuel my account there. There's no way I'm going to connect them with a bank account for this purpose. I may as well write a check and mail it. In either case, it could take as much as 4 weeks for the payment to be received. At any rate, I have determination, and will make this transfer somehow. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. paypal DATE: 13-Feb-06 13:47:38 HOST: sverige It seems I have to pay $2 to paypal to set up the account; that's not worth bitching about; but after that I have to jump thru hoops and wait until next monthly statement arrives because it will disclose my secret code which I have to return to paypal before they'll let me use my VERIFIED Visa to fuel my account there. There's no way I'm going to connect them with a bank account for this purpose. I may as well write a check and mail it. In either case, it could take as much as 4 weeks for the payment to be received. At any rate, I have determination, and will make this transfer somehow. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. paypal DATE: 16-Feb-06 15:18:13 HOST: sverige It looks like I'm successfully spending NOW :) Once the CC is set up, it appears to work seemlessly; no need to xfer funds in before sending; just one-step send. Time will verify shortly I trust. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. paypal DATE: 16-Feb-06 15:18:13 HOST: sverige It looks like I'm successfully spending NOW :) Once the CC is set up, it appears to work seemlessly; no need to xfer funds in before sending; just one-step send. Time will verify shortly I trust. ..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. mp3 ringtones DATE: 16-Aug-06 02:11:39 HOST: sverige .... ober0n, the reason *_I_* use different ring tones for different inbound calls is to enable me to maybe hear a non-essential quiet tone and push the off button wihtout disrupting my existing conversation; or to tell my existing lame conversation that I have to take this call, without having to look at the phone (which is both disruptive and rude) in order to decide. Since you asked. (sort of) [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. mp3 ringtones DATE: 16-Aug-06 02:11:39 HOST: sverige .... ober0n, the reason *_I_* use different ring tones for different inbound calls is to enable me to maybe hear a non-essential quiet tone and push the off button wihtout disrupting my existing conversation; or to tell my existing lame conversation that I have to take this call, without having to look at the phone (which is both disruptive and rude) in order to decide. Since you asked. (sort of) TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. mp3 ringtones DATE: 16-Aug-06 14:42:58 HOST: sverige Morse Code. Excellent! [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. mp3 ringtones DATE: 16-Aug-06 14:42:58 HOST: sverige Morse Code. Excellent! .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Too hot DATE: 20-Jul-06 21:45:17 HOST: sverige but in Australia, where it's snowin in July, do they call it 'summer' or 'winter'? [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Too hot DATE: 20-Jul-06 21:45:17 HOST: sverige but in Australia, where it's snowin in July, do they call it 'summer' or 'winter'? .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Windows is a pain in the @$$ DATE: 30-Dec-05 23:48:38 HOST: sverige I quit teching for friends and neighbors with "the only thing I know about Windows is how to avoid it". However, I do support it for my family members, and frankly without much difficulty using some easy hardline guidelines. Dad has w9x running on old hand-me-down hardware, standalone. I disable all local networking, shares, and netbios; and I replace browser and email clients; and I install AVG anti-virus, and recently a spam filter. He's on a DSL line, so I also installed, but not loaded/started, VNC for remote management; no firewall; no problems over 3 years. Family in house has w2k systems which I secure with guidelines and templates from http://csrc.nist.gov/itsec/ and http://www.cisecurity.org/bench_win2000.html slightly modified; and of course none of them have any privs to install anything; they're all carefully networked, NATted and firewalled behind my OS/2 based server gateway which also happens to provide time, DNS, mail, filtering webproxy, ssh tunnels, and just about anything else they may need. Unused services, including netbios over tcp, are disabled. And of course, the most important thing, replace browser and email clients. The home systems run problem free; they also have AV, but nothing else for system security or maintenance; now that there's teenagers however, there are getting to be a lot of USB cables hanging off them; but I have to do all the installations. In fact, configuring their browsers to proxy thru privoxy[.org] on my gateway, and their IM clients to proxy via SOCKS SSH tunnels on my gateway, and POP mail from the gateway (or remote webmail), I can firewall block ALL their outbound connections (as well as incoming SYN), and their connectivity is encrypted. Firewall (fx.dk) provides customized logging and accounting of all activities. Sweet situation indeed. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Windows is a pain in the @$$ DATE: 30-Dec-05 23:48:38 HOST: sverige I quit teching for friends and neighbors with "the only thing I know about Windows is how to avoid it". However, I do support it for my family members, and frankly without much difficulty using some easy hardline guidelines. Dad has w9x running on old hand-me-down hardware, standalone. I disable all local networking, shares, and netbios; and I replace browser and email clients; and I install AVG anti-virus, and recently a spam filter. He's on a DSL line, so I also installed, but not loaded/started, VNC for remote management; no firewall; no problems over 3 years. Family in house has w2k systems which I secure with guidelines and templates from http://csrc.nist.gov/itsec/ and http://www.cisecurity.org/bench_win2000.html slightly modified; and of course none of them have any privs to install anything; they're all carefully networked, NATted and firewalled behind my OS/2 based server gateway which also happens to provide time, DNS, mail, filtering webproxy, ssh tunnels, and just about anything else they may need. Unused services, including netbios over tcp, are disabled. And of course, the most important thing, replace browser and email clients. The home systems run problem free; they also have AV, but nothing else for system security or maintenance; now that there's teenagers however, there are getting to be a lot of USB cables hanging off them; but I have to do all the installations. In fact, configuring their browsers to proxy thru privoxy[.org] on my gateway, and their IM clients to proxy via SOCKS SSH tunnels on my gateway, and POP mail from the gateway (or remote webmail), I can firewall block ALL their outbound connections (as well as incoming SYN), and their connectivity is encrypted. Firewall (fx.dk) provides customized logging and accounting of all activities. Sweet situation indeed. ..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Drugs DATE: 22-Oct-06 22:49:00 HOST: sverige it's the textbook publisher's way of paying protection fees to the prison-industrial-complex you know, where nice peaceable blokes get put in the slammer for pot possession, and are made to do slave labor for what's left of the manufacturing sector at no/low cost to the profiteers. it also provides necessary PR for the burgeoning Police State. sucks,eh? [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Drugs DATE: 22-Oct-06 22:49:00 HOST: sverige it's the textbook publisher's way of paying protection fees to the prison-industrial-complex you know, where nice peaceable blokes get put in the slammer for pot possession, and are made to do slave labor for what's left of the manufacturing sector at no/low cost to the profiteers. it also provides necessary PR for the burgeoning Police State. sucks,eh? ..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Abuse of "power" DATE: 07-Oct-06 05:40:35 HOST: sverige "why spam exists in the first place. And that is... because people read it." I challenge that statement, be it an assumption or a conclusion. It is physically, logistically, and logically impossible for prior events to take place as a consequence of latter events. Spam is sent only with the hope of profit. Serial spammers probably receive enough profit from their prior runs to encourage them to continue. People don't purchase lottery tickets because it has been profitable for them to do so. Spamming is no cheaper, and no different, than purchasing lottery tickets, other than it is theft by the spammer, not by the lottery ticket purchaser. Spam exists because of greed, and a willingness to exploit others. The greed and the exploitation exist because people have become tolerant of it, rather than evolved beyond it, as they have become tolerant of noise and other pollutions, and of sacrificing their privacies. There's more; but this has been enough for now. - avo [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Abuse of "power" DATE: 07-Oct-06 05:40:35 HOST: sverige "why spam exists in the first place. And that is... because people read it." I challenge that statement, be it an assumption or a conclusion. It is physically, logistically, and logically impossible for prior events to take place as a consequence of latter events. Spam is sent only with the hope of profit. Serial spammers probably receive enough profit from their prior runs to encourage them to continue. People don't purchase lottery tickets because it has been profitable for them to do so. Spamming is no cheaper, and no different, than purchasing lottery tickets, other than it is theft by the spammer, not by the lottery ticket purchaser. Spam exists because of greed, and a willingness to exploit others. The greed and the exploitation exist because people have become tolerant of it, rather than evolved beyond it, as they have become tolerant of noise and other pollutions, and of sacrificing their privacies. There's more; but this has been enough for now. - avo TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Abuse of "power" DATE: 08-Oct-06 12:48:04 HOST: sverige As you say, people buy lottery tickets and people spam because they HOPE to gain. In both cases, their odds are sufficiently near zero to be functionally irreducible already. Spam is theft of service, per just about every MTA operator who reads their logs. Most "successful" spam today is delivered from computers which don't belong to the spammer, other than to his network of hacked boxes, millions of them, stolen by theivery of the disk space, cpu, power, and bandwidth costs born by others without their knowledge or assent. That's what has always made spamming an extremely low-cost activity. Of course there are a handful of different categories of spammer active today, and we don't want to over-generalize unnecessarily. - avo-san [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Abuse of "power" DATE: 08-Oct-06 12:48:04 HOST: sverige As you say, people buy lottery tickets and people spam because they HOPE to gain. In both cases, their odds are sufficiently near zero to be functionally irreducible already. Spam is theft of service, per just about every MTA operator who reads their logs. Most "successful" spam today is delivered from computers which don't belong to the spammer, other than to his network of hacked boxes, millions of them, stolen by theivery of the disk space, cpu, power, and bandwidth costs born by others without their knowledge or assent. That's what has always made spamming an extremely low-cost activity. Of course there are a handful of different categories of spammer active today, and we don't want to over-generalize unnecessarily. - avo-san TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Abuse of "power" DATE: 30-Aug-06 00:35:47 HOST: sverige I appreciate your general point about "implementing policy". With every aging day I find myself increasingly unable to conform to "policy" though I am increasingly adept at complying with the good intentions behind those policies. A simplified every-day example is traffic stop signs. The intent of course is to avoid accidents, not to create traffic stoppages. When I'm in a queue of several vehicles stopping at signs where no traffic is crossing, I don't myself come to a complete halt for nobody yet again! The definition of "traffic" to me mandates the proximity of some vehicle or pedestrian other than myself. If it's just me, then "traffic control devices" have no existance because there's no "traffic" which requires controlling. To me, a "Stop" sign indicates that if I proceed into an accident, it will be my fault; and if I proceed without an accident then there is no problem and there was no infraction. But now that my children are about to gain licenses behind the wheel, I have to explain to them that my driving record of a clean 30 years without ticket or accident will be more difficult for some kid copper to assail than will be their nascent situation. The powers behind badges are going to insist upon bringing the younger folks into compliance more strongly than they are going to take on this old curmudgeon. Perhaps. Remember, never grant, or acknowledge, any "authority" which is not derived from a personal responsibility, and which isn't authorized, or knowledgable, or willing enough to critique each opporunity for enforcement on an individual basis; rather than just drone on issuing tickets. Because .... the police state is rising. And, because it is the proper way to live, with or without despots in the stream. Cheers!! [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Abuse of "power" DATE: 30-Aug-06 00:35:47 HOST: sverige I appreciate your general point about "implementing policy". With every aging day I find myself increasingly unable to conform to "policy" though I am increasingly adept at complying with the good intentions behind those policies. A simplified every-day example is traffic stop signs. The intent of course is to avoid accidents, not to create traffic stoppages. When I'm in a queue of several vehicles stopping at signs where no traffic is crossing, I don't myself come to a complete halt for nobody yet again! The definition of "traffic" to me mandates the proximity of some vehicle or pedestrian other than myself. If it's just me, then "traffic control devices" have no existance because there's no "traffic" which requires controlling. To me, a "Stop" sign indicates that if I proceed into an accident, it will be my fault; and if I proceed without an accident then there is no problem and there was no infraction. But now that my children are about to gain licenses behind the wheel, I have to explain to them that my driving record of a clean 30 years without ticket or accident will be more difficult for some kid copper to assail than will be their nascent situation. The powers behind badges are going to insist upon bringing the younger folks into compliance more strongly than they are going to take on this old curmudgeon. Perhaps. Remember, never grant, or acknowledge, any "authority" which is not derived from a personal responsibility, and which isn't authorized, or knowledgable, or willing enough to critique each opporunity for enforcement on an individual basis; rather than just drone on issuing tickets. Because .... the police state is rising. And, because it is the proper way to live, with or without despots in the stream. Cheers!! TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Abuse of "power" DATE: 30-Aug-06 13:12:38 HOST: sverige In both examples, that of email filtering, and of IRC restrictions, I think what happens is that technical, not personal, policies are instituted which have "collateral damage", which is known, and which is deemed "acceptable" by those searching for a solution to their problem. In the case of IRC, it's easy to configure the host to not allow more than $n connections from any single IP. That way they don't have to do any research about whether the IP is a wide open proxy or a small multi-user system. I've seen mail hosts require connecting IP to have PTR -> IP matching records as the default (which is an easy implementation), and provides a whitelisting capability (which requires more work and attention). The Internet is too big to treat every instance individually. Low level bureaucrats are a different matter all together. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Abuse of "power" DATE: 30-Aug-06 13:12:38 HOST: sverige In both examples, that of email filtering, and of IRC restrictions, I think what happens is that technical, not personal, policies are instituted which have "collateral damage", which is known, and which is deemed "acceptable" by those searching for a solution to their problem. In the case of IRC, it's easy to configure the host to not allow more than $n connections from any single IP. That way they don't have to do any research about whether the IP is a wide open proxy or a small multi-user system. I've seen mail hosts require connecting IP to have PTR -> IP matching records as the default (which is an easy implementation), and provides a whitelisting capability (which requires more work and attention). The Internet is too big to treat every instance individually. Low level bureaucrats are a different matter all together. .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. DVD Media and Recorders DATE: 30-May-06 23:40:47 HOST: sverige Not burnable because the drive rejects it. I couldn't track down a firmware upgrade for the unit: Vendor_info : 'LITE-ON ' Identifikation : 'DVDRW SOHW-1633S' Revision : 'BS0H' Device seems to be: Generic mmc2 DVD-R/DVD-RW. and my hardware source denied firmware upgrades. I'm not sure that the lasers are good any more either however. With some now rare 8x media I'm starting to suspect hardware rather than media failures. I may try harder to find the firmware upgrade now though. Thanks. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. DVD Media and Recorders DATE: 30-May-06 23:40:47 HOST: sverige Not burnable because the drive rejects it. I couldn't track down a firmware upgrade for the unit: Vendor_info : 'LITE-ON ' Identifikation : 'DVDRW SOHW-1633S' Revision : 'BS0H' Device seems to be: Generic mmc2 DVD-R/DVD-RW. and my hardware source denied firmware upgrades. I'm not sure that the lasers are good any more either however. With some now rare 8x media I'm starting to suspect hardware rather than media failures. I may try harder to find the firmware upgrade now though. Thanks. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. DVD Media and Recorders DATE: 31-May-06 20:13:22 HOST: sverige Thanks Robert! That did the trick :) [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. DVD Media and Recorders DATE: 31-May-06 20:13:22 HOST: sverige Thanks Robert! That did the trick :) ....TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Where do you like to shop? DATE: 01-Apr-06 04:59:55 HOST: sverige "where do you buy your stuff?" the overcoat in the park? [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Where do you like to shop? DATE: 01-Apr-06 04:59:55 HOST: sverige "where do you buy your stuff?" the overcoat in the park? .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Postfix on NetBSD DATE: 02-Aug-06 12:40:42 HOST: sverige Don't expect the Postfix config files to be anywhere near complete. Use 'man 5 postconf' That said, the default settings are usually quite satisfactory, and secure!, and by starting with the installed .cf files you should easily and readily have a functioning mail server running while you study the rest of the options and feature-set. Some security testers: http://www.abuse.net/relay.html telnet to relay-test.mail-abuse.org and log the automatic session Another tool you may find useful: http://jetmore.org/john/code/#swaks [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Postfix on NetBSD DATE: 02-Aug-06 12:40:42 HOST: sverige Don't expect the Postfix config files to be anywhere near complete. Use 'man 5 postconf' That said, the default settings are usually quite satisfactory, and secure!, and by starting with the installed .cf files you should easily and readily have a functioning mail server running while you study the rest of the options and feature-set. Some security testers: http://www.abuse.net/relay.html telnet to relay-test.mail-abuse.org and log the automatic session Another tool you may find useful: http://jetmore.org/john/code/#swaks ...TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. NetBSD stagnated? DATE: 31-Aug-06 21:01:25 HOST: sverige OS/2 is still being pronounced "dead" for what seems like ten years running by now. Still only it's users don't believe it; nobody else seems to care; yet the pronouncements persist. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. NetBSD stagnated? DATE: 31-Aug-06 21:01:25 HOST: sverige OS/2 is still being pronounced "dead" for what seems like ten years running by now. Still only it's users don't believe it; nobody else seems to care; yet the pronouncements persist. .........TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. DOS - the final frontier, to boldy boot where no OS has gon DATE: 16-Apr-06 03:58:47 HOST: sverige Hi Fred, My computer experience went from z/80 cp/m to DOS to DesQview to OS/2, and my current desktop and local gateway is still OS/2 (current). Part of the reason I'm still on OS/2 is that Windows (or unix) just never ever did "the job" as well as what I was using at the time, and another part of the reason is that OS/2 (nothing else) runs DOS so well, and for most of my concerns, DOS based applications are every bit or more useful, to me, than their present day forms in other systems. The biggest exceptions being graphic printing and databases and other data processing engines which anticipate unlimited physical and virtual memory. I still have a pile of 5" program distribution floppies which I'm transferring to HD/CD archival; maybe everything from Borland including Sprint :) Did you ever enjoy time with Fractint? (my favorite definitive example of "time sink") [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. DOS - the final frontier, to boldy boot where no OS has gon DATE: 16-Apr-06 03:58:47 HOST: sverige Hi Fred, My computer experience went from z/80 cp/m to DOS to DesQview to OS/2, and my current desktop and local gateway is still OS/2 (current). Part of the reason I'm still on OS/2 is that Windows (or unix) just never ever did "the job" as well as what I was using at the time, and another part of the reason is that OS/2 (nothing else) runs DOS so well, and for most of my concerns, DOS based applications are every bit or more useful, to me, than their present day forms in other systems. The biggest exceptions being graphic printing and databases and other data processing engines which anticipate unlimited physical and virtual memory. I still have a pile of 5" program distribution floppies which I'm transferring to HD/CD archival; maybe everything from Borland including Sprint :) Did you ever enjoy time with Fractint? (my favorite definitive example of "time sink") TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. DOS - the final frontier, to boldy boot where no OS has gon DATE: 18-Apr-06 22:08:05 HOST: sverige Affirmative of Robert's statements, I'll add that OS/2 itself was initiated as some kind of joint venture between IBM and MS. They had "a falling out", the details of which I've no clue, and IBM continued OS/2 development. In fact, still today calls for open-sourcing OS/2 are met with "MS still owns some of the codeparts", though I'm not really sure which ones. In addition to IBM's PC-DOS and MS's MS-DOS I think the first other was Dr-DOS from Digital Research (which wrote CP/M); and there was a Novell DOS which was probably their own. IIRC (which btw isn't very likely :), Caldera purchased Dr-DOS, and somehow out of it all today is FreeDOS. And there may have been embedded systems variants also. Several handheld devices ran DOS; notably the HP-200lx (MS-DOS 5.00), the first "Pocket PC". Relatedly, one of the very early "laptop" systems was from Hewlett-Packard, the 110. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. DOS - the final frontier, to boldy boot where no OS has gon DATE: 18-Apr-06 22:08:05 HOST: sverige Affirmative of Robert's statements, I'll add that OS/2 itself was initiated as some kind of joint venture between IBM and MS. They had "a falling out", the details of which I've no clue, and IBM continued OS/2 development. In fact, still today calls for open-sourcing OS/2 are met with "MS still owns some of the codeparts", though I'm not really sure which ones. In addition to IBM's PC-DOS and MS's MS-DOS I think the first other was Dr-DOS from Digital Research (which wrote CP/M); and there was a Novell DOS which was probably their own. IIRC (which btw isn't very likely :), Caldera purchased Dr-DOS, and somehow out of it all today is FreeDOS. And there may have been embedded systems variants also. Several handheld devices ran DOS; notably the HP-200lx (MS-DOS 5.00), the first "Pocket PC". Relatedly, one of the very early "laptop" systems was from Hewlett-Packard, the 110. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. DOS - the final frontier, to boldy boot where no OS has gon DATE: 18-Apr-06 22:34:54 HOST: sverige and I'll wager without looking that Wikipedia has the full history of DOS variants; maybe the early history about how Bill Gates got into the game in the very first place. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. DOS - the final frontier, to boldy boot where no OS has gon DATE: 18-Apr-06 22:34:54 HOST: sverige and I'll wager without looking that Wikipedia has the full history of DOS variants; maybe the early history about how Bill Gates got into the game in the very first place. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. DOS - the final frontier, to boldy boot where no OS has gon DATE: 20-Apr-06 04:31:11 HOST: sverige Fine. However, after MS left the OS/2 project, IBM continued active OS/2 development before, during, and after, the lifetime of NT. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. DOS - the final frontier, to boldy boot where no OS has gon DATE: 20-Apr-06 04:31:11 HOST: sverige Fine. However, after MS left the OS/2 project, IBM continued active OS/2 development before, during, and after, the lifetime of NT. .....TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Help me design a MetaNet .. DATE: 01-Jul-06 13:16:42 HOST: sverige I very much like the idea, and would be happy to jump in with both feet. Several of us will still be tied to various careers, universities, and other associations on the public internet, but it seems to me that anyone can set up their DNS to lookup at multiple locations, so those wouldn't be lost. They'd really just add the metanet DNS server, not replace the old one[s]. IPs would still be controlled by the existing systems and ISPs, so MetaNet DNS servers would probably be doing a lot of dynamic updaating ala mdns.org but over several domains, .... if the projet went that way. A central IRC server would be useful. While the project is developed at SDF, it can have its own board, instead of GENERAL, and there could be meetings in com. SSL key generation might ought to be wrapped into something which minimizes time involvement, and ensures certain protections controlling its use. That's it for now. It's a nice project to have in mind. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Help me design a MetaNet .. DATE: 01-Jul-06 13:16:42 HOST: sverige I very much like the idea, and would be happy to jump in with both feet. Several of us will still be tied to various careers, universities, and other associations on the public internet, but it seems to me that anyone can set up their DNS to lookup at multiple locations, so those wouldn't be lost. They'd really just add the metanet DNS server, not replace the old one[s]. IPs would still be controlled by the existing systems and ISPs, so MetaNet DNS servers would probably be doing a lot of dynamic updaating ala mdns.org but over several domains, .... if the projet went that way. A central IRC server would be useful. While the project is developed at SDF, it can have its own board, instead of GENERAL, and there could be meetings in com. SSL key generation might ought to be wrapped into something which minimizes time involvement, and ensures certain protections controlling its use. That's it for now. It's a nice project to have in mind. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Help me design a MetaNet .. DATE: 02-Jul-06 00:14:47 HOST: sverige it was asked here ... "What is not good with the current internet, and how could it be better?" My primary attraction to the proposal is the use of SSL encrypted and authenticated connections for *everything*. I think that should become a standard for the public network, because I believe that privacy is important. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Help me design a MetaNet .. DATE: 02-Jul-06 00:14:47 HOST: sverige it was asked here ... "What is not good with the current internet, and how could it be better?" My primary attraction to the proposal is the use of SSL encrypted and authenticated connections for *everything*. I think that should become a standard for the public network, because I believe that privacy is important. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Help me design a MetaNet .. DATE: 03-Jul-06 13:04:32 HOST: sverige I appreciate everybody's thoughts on this idea, and want to briefly respond to one statement and to one possible misunderstanding. To the statement, "The only drawbacks are the many ads in the web and the spam", I add privacy as a drawback, and therefore (again) endorse SSL for *everything* (which doesn't yet exist for DNS). To the perception that this would be some underground parallel or replacement network, I offer that it is more of an extension, and does not require disconnecting from the existing network. As first starting points, there would be a DNS host set up to resolve .meta domain names; and users would prepend this host to their named.root or resolv files or to whatever their list of DNS resolution sources. You could then browse to sdf.meta for instance. (and a mdns.meta operation for dynamic hosts) Second step would be to setup a Certificate Authority and processing operation. It's not so much a return to the way things were, as a prototype for how things could evolve, by enabling the use of new top level domains (.meta) and by enabling SSL encryption and authentication for everything. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Help me design a MetaNet .. DATE: 03-Jul-06 13:04:32 HOST: sverige I appreciate everybody's thoughts on this idea, and want to briefly respond to one statement and to one possible misunderstanding. To the statement, "The only drawbacks are the many ads in the web and the spam", I add privacy as a drawback, and therefore (again) endorse SSL for *everything* (which doesn't yet exist for DNS). To the perception that this would be some underground parallel or replacement network, I offer that it is more of an extension, and does not require disconnecting from the existing network. As first starting points, there would be a DNS host set up to resolve .meta domain names; and users would prepend this host to their named.root or resolv files or to whatever their list of DNS resolution sources. You could then browse to sdf.meta for instance. (and a mdns.meta operation for dynamic hosts) Second step would be to setup a Certificate Authority and processing operation. It's not so much a return to the way things were, as a prototype for how things could evolve, by enabling the use of new top level domains (.meta) and by enabling SSL encryption and authentication for everything. ..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. The Great American Boycott 2006 TODAY!!! DATE: 01-May-06 12:27:31 HOST: sverige It was on May 1 in 2003 that president George Bush swaggered across the flight deck of the USS Abraham Lincoln and declared "Mission Accomplished" in Iraq. three years ago today. Maybe this year he'll strut thru New Orleans. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. The Great American Boycott 2006 TODAY!!! DATE: 01-May-06 12:27:31 HOST: sverige It was on May 1 in 2003 that president George Bush swaggered across the flight deck of the USS Abraham Lincoln and declared "Mission Accomplished" in Iraq. three years ago today. Maybe this year he'll strut thru New Orleans. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. The Great American Boycott 2006 TODAY!!! DATE: 03-May-06 11:53:54 HOST: sverige Political solutions are as easy as repealing NAFTA Huh? Well, NAFTA was supposedly going to make things all rosy for folks in their own countries. What we see is folks fleeing their own countries. Did you ever notice how people move into homes under airports, next to sport stadiums and trains; and THEN complain about the noise? Or how they move into a brand new subdivision in a cornfield, and then complain about the developer putting more new homes in next to them? It's not only that people have become complainers who don't think. It's basically that they're selfish and arrogant, and hypocrits. Or they do something bold, ... like make change, ... like ... move. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. The Great American Boycott 2006 TODAY!!! DATE: 03-May-06 11:53:54 HOST: sverige Political solutions are as easy as repealing NAFTA Huh? Well, NAFTA was supposedly going to make things all rosy for folks in their own countries. What we see is folks fleeing their own countries. Did you ever notice how people move into homes under airports, next to sport stadiums and trains; and THEN complain about the noise? Or how they move into a brand new subdivision in a cornfield, and then complain about the developer putting more new homes in next to them? It's not only that people have become complainers who don't think. It's basically that they're selfish and arrogant, and hypocrits. Or they do something bold, ... like make change, ... like ... move. .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Stephen Jones on SDF @ bsdtalk.blogspot.com DATE: 02-Mar-06 13:16:52 HOST: sverige That was nice! I recommend it to users and to the archive. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Stephen Jones on SDF @ bsdtalk.blogspot.com DATE: 02-Mar-06 13:16:52 HOST: sverige That was nice! I recommend it to users and to the archive. ...TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. user 'frost' has had his account suspended DATE: 07-Feb-06 00:44:52 HOST: sverige Observing the vote, I note ... ... lots of sentiment for "second chance". From my reading of the documentation in this thread and frosts's "my apology" thread, the current vote is about giving frost a 3rd, not 2nd, chance. His/her apology to SDF was lame, and he resisted answering my question about *what* he learned. When smj reminded him to apologize, frost said (in this thread) "I thought you were kidding about that." Ergo, it's now the 3rd chance. ... a surprising quantity of statements of the nature "clearly a violation of AUP, but that's ok; maybe he/she won't do it again" Well, maybe *if* without being further prodded into it frost would acknowledge an awareness of exactly which of the AUP he/she violated, and that violating AUP is wrong, and that the violation of those specific provisions is wrong (which is why they're in AUP), not that getting caught is wrong or regrettable or ineviatable (or the lesson learned, as he stated), then we'd actually have a situation much different from that which we have now. ... sentiment that frost is probably just too immature to expected to know the difference between right and wrong, or to see beyond or within "getting caught"; suggesting that we treat him like a puppy which will ineviatably piss on the indoor furnishings before being trained to wait for a tree. User frost is definitely not close to ready for Meta-ARPA level privs here. Maybe a good solution is to apply a penalty of ineligible for Meta-ARPA membership for a minimum of 24 months; and possibly remove some ARPA privs to the Meta or other more responsible level of trust. Again, I find myself endorsing a graduated scale of membership based first upon proven trust (with time); but I still haven't learned to keep my posts to just one topic/issue at a time. --thanks for reading, [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. user 'frost' has had his account suspended DATE: 07-Feb-06 00:44:52 HOST: sverige Observing the vote, I note ... ... lots of sentiment for "second chance". From my reading of the documentation in this thread and frosts's "my apology" thread, the current vote is about giving frost a 3rd, not 2nd, chance. His/her apology to SDF was lame, and he resisted answering my question about *what* he learned. When smj reminded him to apologize, frost said (in this thread) "I thought you were kidding about that." Ergo, it's now the 3rd chance. ... a surprising quantity of statements of the nature "clearly a violation of AUP, but that's ok; maybe he/she won't do it again" Well, maybe *if* without being further prodded into it frost would acknowledge an awareness of exactly which of the AUP he/she violated, and that violating AUP is wrong, and that the violation of those specific provisions is wrong (which is why they're in AUP), not that getting caught is wrong or regrettable or ineviatable (or the lesson learned, as he stated), then we'd actually have a situation much different from that which we have now. ... sentiment that frost is probably just too immature to expected to know the difference between right and wrong, or to see beyond or within "getting caught"; suggesting that we treat him like a puppy which will ineviatably piss on the indoor furnishings before being trained to wait for a tree. User frost is definitely not close to ready for Meta-ARPA level privs here. Maybe a good solution is to apply a penalty of ineligible for Meta-ARPA membership for a minimum of 24 months; and possibly remove some ARPA privs to the Meta or other more responsible level of trust. Again, I find myself endorsing a graduated scale of membership based first upon proven trust (with time); but I still haven't learned to keep my posts to just one topic/issue at a time. --thanks for reading, TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. user 'frost' has had his account suspended DATE: 11-Feb-06 20:11:59 HOST: sverige sorry to see this thread expire at this point [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. user 'frost' has had his account suspended DATE: 11-Feb-06 20:11:59 HOST: sverige sorry to see this thread expire at this point TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. user 'frost' has had his account suspended DATE: 23-Feb-06 12:27:34 HOST: sverige "That USENET post kinda makes you wonder who or what else is being molested by these jesus worshiping religious figures? frost, you could have made that post elsewhere" Perhaps your point should also have been posted to a more appropriate location. ", like on your home computer." [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. user 'frost' has had his account suspended DATE: 23-Feb-06 12:27:34 HOST: sverige "That USENET post kinda makes you wonder who or what else is being molested by these jesus worshiping religious figures? frost, you could have made that post elsewhere" Perhaps your point should also have been posted to a more appropriate location. ", like on your home computer." TACKER: ladams (Lance Adams) SUBJECT: .. user 'frost' has had his account suspended DATE: 23-Feb-06 15:42:44 HOST: ukato Did you read the rest of my post...you fuck? "Perhaps your point should also have been posted to a more appropriate location." And I'll quote myself: ""Fuck em if they can't take a joke"" [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: ladams (Lance Adams) SUBJECT: .. user 'frost' has had his account suspended DATE: 23-Feb-06 15:42:44 HOST: ukato Did you read the rest of my post...you fuck? "Perhaps your point should also have been posted to a more appropriate location." And I'll quote myself: ""Fuck em if they can't take a joke"" TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. My Apology DATE: 04-Feb-06 13:08:43 HOST: sverige user 'frost' said "In closing I would like to say that in the days I have had to live with this shame, I have learned a lesson I will not soon forget." Please share with us, by description, this lesson. Thank you. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. My Apology DATE: 04-Feb-06 13:08:43 HOST: sverige user 'frost' said "In closing I would like to say that in the days I have had to live with this shame, I have learned a lesson I will not soon forget." Please share with us, by description, this lesson. Thank you. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. My Apology DATE: 05-Feb-06 10:46:35 HOST: sverige frost, you have stated *that* you learned some lesson[s] in this experience, but you have not said *what* it is that you have leaned. This is my *second * request for this information; and I consider the request to be both reasonable and appropriate for your situation. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. My Apology DATE: 05-Feb-06 10:46:35 HOST: sverige frost, you have stated *that* you learned some lesson[s] in this experience, but you have not said *what* it is that you have leaned. This is my *second * request for this information; and I consider the request to be both reasonable and appropriate for your situation. TACKER: frost (frost) SUBJECT: .. My Apology DATE: 06-Feb-06 09:49:06 HOST: sdf koenig (Greg Koenig) worte: * You've said a few times that you are "sorry", but I am wondering whether you are sorry for what you did, sorry for the inconvenience you caused the other users of SDF, or simply sorry that you got caught. * Why single out Pastor Dave and the group alt.christnet.christianlife? Was this someone who had somehow wronged you in the past, or just someone you randomly picked? If randomly picked, why would you think saying the things you said would be "funny"? I am sorry for what I did, and for the inconvenience to the sdf users. I guess I chose Pastor Dave because I saw the "Pastor" there and thought it might have been funny, I guess it wasn't. avoyager (Avo Yager) frost, you have stated *that* you learned some lesson[s] in this experience, but you have not said *what* it is that you have leaned. The lesson I learned from what happened to me is that if you do something that breaks the law or defames someone or in this case telling lies, that you will get caught sooner or later. I'll ever do something like that again, because now I know I shouldn't. And also I did post an apology to Pastor Dave in alt.christnet.christianlife the tittle was "My Apology to Pastor Dave". [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: frost (frost) SUBJECT: .. My Apology DATE: 06-Feb-06 09:49:06 HOST: sdf koenig (Greg Koenig) worte: * You've said a few times that you are "sorry", but I am wondering whether you are sorry for what you did, sorry for the inconvenience you caused the other users of SDF, or simply sorry that you got caught. * Why single out Pastor Dave and the group alt.christnet.christianlife? Was this someone who had somehow wronged you in the past, or just someone you randomly picked? If randomly picked, why would you think saying the things you said would be "funny"? I am sorry for what I did, and for the inconvenience to the sdf users. I guess I chose Pastor Dave because I saw the "Pastor" there and thought it might have been funny, I guess it wasn't. avoyager (Avo Yager) frost, you have stated *that* you learned some lesson[s] in this experience, but you have not said *what* it is that you have leaned. The lesson I learned from what happened to me is that if you do something that breaks the law or defames someone or in this case telling lies, that you will get caught sooner or later. I'll ever do something like that again, because now I know I shouldn't. And also I did post an apology to Pastor Dave in alt.christnet.christianlife the tittle was "My Apology to Pastor Dave". TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. My Apology DATE: 06-Feb-06 13:08:54 HOST: sverige koenig (Greg Koenig) worte: * You've said a few times that you are "sorry", but I am wondering whether you are sorry for what you did, sorry for the inconvenience you caused the other users of SDF, or simply sorry that you got caught. frost subsequently wrote: * The lesson I learned from what happened to me is that if you do something that breaks the law or defames someone or in this case telling lies, that you will get caught sooner or later. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. My Apology DATE: 06-Feb-06 13:08:54 HOST: sverige koenig (Greg Koenig) worte: * You've said a few times that you are "sorry", but I am wondering whether you are sorry for what you did, sorry for the inconvenience you caused the other users of SDF, or simply sorry that you got caught. frost subsequently wrote: * The lesson I learned from what happened to me is that if you do something that breaks the law or defames someone or in this case telling lies, that you will get caught sooner or later. .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. the end of the world? DATE: 03-Oct-06 20:47:44 HOST: sverige Viva Le Libra! [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. the end of the world? DATE: 03-Oct-06 20:47:44 HOST: sverige Viva Le Libra! .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. mandelbrot sets DATE: 04-Dec-05 07:10:50 HOST: sverige fractint for bsd ?? sdf ~~ Stonesoup De Fractal ?? [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. mandelbrot sets DATE: 04-Dec-05 07:10:50 HOST: sverige fractint for bsd ?? sdf ~~ Stonesoup De Fractal ?? ..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. apartment's Internet connection rendered useless DATE: 05-Feb-06 15:48:20 HOST: sverige named.conf:// listen-on { 127.0.0.1; 192.168.1.7; }; [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. apartment's Internet connection rendered useless DATE: 05-Feb-06 15:48:20 HOST: sverige named.conf:// listen-on { 127.0.0.1; 192.168.1.7; }; TACKER: selever (Nic Reveles) SUBJECT: .. apartment's Internet connection rendered useless DATE: 05-Feb-06 15:52:21 HOST: ukato WOOO! Avoyager, don't be creeped out by this, but I think I love you! I am a bit embarassed that in BIG LETTERS it spells out that you have to fix that... Now I _have_ DNS (no more quasi stuff). Woohoo! Nic [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: selever (Nic Reveles) SUBJECT: .. apartment's Internet connection rendered useless DATE: 05-Feb-06 15:52:21 HOST: ukato WOOO! Avoyager, don't be creeped out by this, but I think I love you! I am a bit embarassed that in BIG LETTERS it spells out that you have to fix that... Now I _have_ DNS (no more quasi stuff). Woohoo! Nic TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. apartment's Internet connection rendered useless DATE: 05-Feb-06 16:24:22 HOST: sverige Nic, here's the next nice Bind trick: zone "ads.web.aol.com" in { type master; file "nullify.zone"; }; zone "fastclick.com" in { type master; file "nullify.zone"; }; zone "fastclick.net" in { type master; file "nullify.zone"; }; zone "adserver.com" in { type master; file "nullify.zone"; }; the nullify.zone file contains: $TTL 86400; @ IN SOA localhost. root.localhost. ( 1 36000 1200 604800 86400 ) IN NS @ use it for all the sites you want to disappear from the internet (I hope this page wraps legibly when posted) --cheers! [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. apartment's Internet connection rendered useless DATE: 05-Feb-06 16:24:22 HOST: sverige Nic, here's the next nice Bind trick: zone "ads.web.aol.com" in { type master; file "nullify.zone"; }; zone "fastclick.com" in { type master; file "nullify.zone"; }; zone "fastclick.net" in { type master; file "nullify.zone"; }; zone "adserver.com" in { type master; file "nullify.zone"; }; the nullify.zone file contains: $TTL 86400; @ IN SOA localhost. root.localhost. ( 1 36000 1200 604800 86400 ) IN NS @ use it for all the sites you want to disappear from the internet (I hope this page wraps legibly when posted) --cheers! TACKER: selever (Nic Reveles) SUBJECT: .. apartment's Internet connection rendered useless DATE: 05-Feb-06 16:53:43 HOST: ukato avoyager-- That is a very neat idea. It seems to be working, except that when I reboot 'named' it complains that every site with the nullify.zone file "has no NS records". Is it important to leave the "IN NS @" part in there? I haven't honestly learned the details of how the .zone or .rev files work yet. Still, I'm enjoying having a T1 connection to myself right now... I could see the benefit of becoming REAL handy with BIND! Nic [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: selever (Nic Reveles) SUBJECT: .. apartment's Internet connection rendered useless DATE: 05-Feb-06 16:53:43 HOST: ukato avoyager-- That is a very neat idea. It seems to be working, except that when I reboot 'named' it complains that every site with the nullify.zone file "has no NS records". Is it important to leave the "IN NS @" part in there? I haven't honestly learned the details of how the .zone or .rev files work yet. Still, I'm enjoying having a T1 connection to myself right now... I could see the benefit of becoming REAL handy with BIND! Nic TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. apartment's Internet connection rendered useless DATE: 05-Feb-06 19:23:00 HOST: sverige Nic, That's the whole idea! No NS records! :) [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. apartment's Internet connection rendered useless DATE: 05-Feb-06 19:23:00 HOST: sverige Nic, That's the whole idea! No NS records! :) TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. ARPA member vote on user 'frost' DATE: 05-Feb-06 20:55:17 HOST: sverige avoyager: AYE I've seen no real indication of sincere repentance or reformation, which saddens me. I thought it very noble of smj to encourage personal growth and to provide more than a fair opportunity for this misfit to learn and develop. User frosts's arrogant disdain for this gracious opportunity renders him most unfit for membership this fine community. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. ARPA member vote on user 'frost' DATE: 05-Feb-06 20:55:17 HOST: sverige avoyager: AYE I've seen no real indication of sincere repentance or reformation, which saddens me. I thought it very noble of smj to encourage personal growth and to provide more than a fair opportunity for this misfit to learn and develop. User frosts's arrogant disdain for this gracious opportunity renders him most unfit for membership this fine community. ...TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Deleting "DON'T DELTE THIS MESSAGE" DATE: 05-Sep-06 14:35:08 HOST: sverige and "Don't remove this tag" from your mattress either :) [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Deleting "DON'T DELTE THIS MESSAGE" DATE: 05-Sep-06 14:35:08 HOST: sverige and "Don't remove this tag" from your mattress either :) TACKER: shinji (Robert Pendell) SUBJECT: .. Deleting "DON'T DELTE THIS MESSAGE" DATE: 05-Sep-06 23:43:20 HOST: sverige @avoyager Not to go off topic here or anything but the "Don't remove this tag" crap only applies to the people selling it. The consumer can remove the tag without ever getting in trouble. They had revised the wording on the tag at one point to clarify that. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: shinji (Robert Pendell) SUBJECT: .. Deleting "DON'T DELTE THIS MESSAGE" DATE: 05-Sep-06 23:43:20 HOST: sverige @avoyager Not to go off topic here or anything but the "Don't remove this tag" crap only applies to the people selling it. The consumer can remove the tag without ever getting in trouble. They had revised the wording on the tag at one point to clarify that. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Deleting "DON'T DELTE THIS MESSAGE" DATE: 06-Sep-06 01:40:47 HOST: sverige Robert, not to go further off topic here, but "Stop" signs don't mean to me that I should come to a complete halt. To me they mean that if I'm involved in a collision within the intersection, then it will have been my fault. ;-} It's possible that I came to this conclusion in part as a consequence of tearing those labels off all my matresses, pillows, and sleeping bags. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Deleting "DON'T DELTE THIS MESSAGE" DATE: 06-Sep-06 01:40:47 HOST: sverige Robert, not to go further off topic here, but "Stop" signs don't mean to me that I should come to a complete halt. To me they mean that if I'm involved in a collision within the intersection, then it will have been my fault. ;-} It's possible that I came to this conclusion in part as a consequence of tearing those labels off all my matresses, pillows, and sleeping bags. ...TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Digital Cameras DATE: 07-Jun-06 21:28:05 HOST: sverige Local camera shop guy says, "In the mid-range they're all the same, and they're all fragile. Samsung are best, Canon overpriced, and stay away from Cassio." [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Digital Cameras DATE: 07-Jun-06 21:28:05 HOST: sverige Local camera shop guy says, "In the mid-range they're all the same, and they're all fragile. Samsung are best, Canon overpriced, and stay away from Cassio." TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Digital Cameras DATE: 09-Jun-06 02:43:09 HOST: sverige Most of the mid-range stuff is now double-A's. I prefer that to proprietary power and charging sources. Rechargable NiMH batteries are readily available at 2000mAh. My last batch of 1700mAh cells lasted at least three years before crumping out. They'll also keep the camera going longer than Alkalines. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Digital Cameras DATE: 09-Jun-06 02:43:09 HOST: sverige Most of the mid-range stuff is now double-A's. I prefer that to proprietary power and charging sources. Rechargable NiMH batteries are readily available at 2000mAh. My last batch of 1700mAh cells lasted at least three years before crumping out. They'll also keep the camera going longer than Alkalines. .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. DON'T FORGET TO VOTE TUESDAY! DATE: 08-Nov-06 19:14:27 HOST: sverige OK. Now that the U.S. electorate has replaced some shit-heads with some dip-shits, .... um, ..... well, ...... uuhh, ....... ...... the Daily Show should be pretty good this week. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. DON'T FORGET TO VOTE TUESDAY! DATE: 08-Nov-06 19:14:27 HOST: sverige OK. Now that the U.S. electorate has replaced some shit-heads with some dip-shits, .... um, ..... well, ...... uuhh, ....... ...... the Daily Show should be pretty good this week. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. A Rational, Friendly Discussion on Operating Systems DATE: 07-Sep-06 12:01:38 HOST: sverige I've never seen a semi-technical discussion of the core distinctions between a BSD and a linux which worked for me. Perhaps this can become one, and certainly I should take another look at that is on SDF for this topic. The best was something about how the kernel is packaged, whether modular or not, but at the time I really didn't grok it. My history is DOS to DesqView (in DOS) to OS/2 (with DOS) which is my primary system today many years later. I've worked with Windows but never liked it at all until 2000 Pro. I have experience with BSD as an SDF Meta-ARPA member, and with Debian as my remote VPS. As a command line user, I find the two to be nearly indistinguishable. As a quasi-pseudo-bonzai-admin-in-training, I can see a few differences in the layout of configuration files and probably the bootup/startup details. I've spent several years with a weather eye open toward looking for the right move to make (from OS/2) when it is eventually required, or otherwise most propitious. I've given up on either being successful DOS platforms until one of the Virtual PC teams, such as Parallels, provides it. As a desktop GUI, from what I can tell, many of them will install in either OS base, so at that point there's no more discussion of the operating systems themselves, only their accutremants. Security and stability seem to be nearly equivalent between the two, so my most pressing concerns have centered on package/dependency management and the lack of restrictions against supporting different hardware and applications. The word from trusted sources, including smj, has been in favor of BSD, but in the end 1.) it was lots easier to find a VPS solution for it; 2.) it was Debian, not NetBSD, which installed successfully here as a Connectix VirtualPC sponsored guest system; 3.) I've spent my life supporting "the better" technologies while they fail in the marketplace and cease to become viable. I still like to stick to my guns and fight for my causes, but it really is getting kinda tiresome being left in the dust with obsolete versions of nearly essential tools such as Acrobat Reader and Flash. 4.) I'm happy with Debian, and see no reason why I should change to any of the BSDs other than to support, at my expense, the noble and worthy cause. I'd rather sacrifice for peace and integrity now in my few remaining years. Since you asked, ;-} -avo [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. A Rational, Friendly Discussion on Operating Systems DATE: 07-Sep-06 12:01:38 HOST: sverige I've never seen a semi-technical discussion of the core distinctions between a BSD and a linux which worked for me. Perhaps this can become one, and certainly I should take another look at that is on SDF for this topic. The best was something about how the kernel is packaged, whether modular or not, but at the time I really didn't grok it. My history is DOS to DesqView (in DOS) to OS/2 (with DOS) which is my primary system today many years later. I've worked with Windows but never liked it at all until 2000 Pro. I have experience with BSD as an SDF Meta-ARPA member, and with Debian as my remote VPS. As a command line user, I find the two to be nearly indistinguishable. As a quasi-pseudo-bonzai-admin-in-training, I can see a few differences in the layout of configuration files and probably the bootup/startup details. I've spent several years with a weather eye open toward looking for the right move to make (from OS/2) when it is eventually required, or otherwise most propitious. I've given up on either being successful DOS platforms until one of the Virtual PC teams, such as Parallels, provides it. As a desktop GUI, from what I can tell, many of them will install in either OS base, so at that point there's no more discussion of the operating systems themselves, only their accutremants. Security and stability seem to be nearly equivalent between the two, so my most pressing concerns have centered on package/dependency management and the lack of restrictions against supporting different hardware and applications. The word from trusted sources, including smj, has been in favor of BSD, but in the end 1.) it was lots easier to find a VPS solution for it; 2.) it was Debian, not NetBSD, which installed successfully here as a Connectix VirtualPC sponsored guest system; 3.) I've spent my life supporting "the better" technologies while they fail in the marketplace and cease to become viable. I still like to stick to my guns and fight for my causes, but it really is getting kinda tiresome being left in the dust with obsolete versions of nearly essential tools such as Acrobat Reader and Flash. 4.) I'm happy with Debian, and see no reason why I should change to any of the BSDs other than to support, at my expense, the noble and worthy cause. I'd rather sacrifice for peace and integrity now in my few remaining years. Since you asked, ;-} -avo .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. A Rational, Friendly Discussion on Operating Systems DATE: 08-Sep-06 01:05:51 HOST: sverige Thank you for that link, James. I enjoyed the read, but really didn't find the "arguments" (because they weren't designed to be) compelling. The leading summary (below) is very sensible to me however, and pretty much clarifies for me the whole picture. "BSD is what you get when a bunch of Unix hackers sit down to try to port a Unix system to the PC. Linux is what you get when a bunch of PC hackers sit down and try to write a Unix system for the PC." It's good that we have both. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. A Rational, Friendly Discussion on Operating Systems DATE: 08-Sep-06 01:05:51 HOST: sverige Thank you for that link, James. I enjoyed the read, but really didn't find the "arguments" (because they weren't designed to be) compelling. The leading summary (below) is very sensible to me however, and pretty much clarifies for me the whole picture. "BSD is what you get when a bunch of Unix hackers sit down to try to port a Unix system to the PC. Linux is what you get when a bunch of PC hackers sit down and try to write a Unix system for the PC." It's good that we have both. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Ending homelessness DATE: 08-Feb-06 20:56:10 HOST: sverige It would seem preferable to me that action be first taken to reduce poverty. THEN, as a consequence, there would result a general reduction in personal (not corporate or political or financial) crime, a general improvement to the local economies (more consumers purchasing more), a general decrease in homelessness, and a general upward spiral of beneficial consequences such as employment and production. It only requires political will. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Ending homelessness DATE: 08-Feb-06 20:56:10 HOST: sverige It would seem preferable to me that action be first taken to reduce poverty. THEN, as a consequence, there would result a general reduction in personal (not corporate or political or financial) crime, a general improvement to the local economies (more consumers purchasing more), a general decrease in homelessness, and a general upward spiral of beneficial consequences such as employment and production. It only requires political will. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Ending homelessness DATE: 09-Feb-06 03:23:33 HOST: sverige it was here said: "I don't believe that social welfare is the responsibility of the government, personally. This is what the churches and rescue missions are supposed to be doing." My rebuttal is ... then WHAT is the responsibility of the government? After all, the preamble of the U.S. Constitution does declare that the people create the government for the purpose of ensuring their common interests including specifically the general welfare. There even used to be a cabinet level Department of Health, Education, and Welfare. Since then, "welfare" has been redefined by partisan interests to infer some kind of hardship upon the ruling minority, rather than its original reference to the well-being of all, notably food, clothing, and shelter. The reality in U.S. controlled countries is ... that business/economic interests control the government, as forewarned by Roosevelt; and that worse yet, the business interests are dominated by military (anti-peace pro-poverty) interests, as forewarned by Eisenhower. The political solution is to reject the two-party illusion. The economic solution is to not feed the beast; and to return to a distributed and loccalized ownership model which empowers rather than enslaves more people. The social solution is to localize political and economic determination. The ultimate solution is spiritual, because the natural solutions are at best improbable, and more probably impossible, to achieve; at least by natural, rather than spiritual, beings. There you have it. I've bet that you haven't reached/read/achieved this far yet again. Which is in part why you're in the unfortunate and astoundingly ridiculous predicament/quagmire you're in. -- so be it [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Ending homelessness DATE: 09-Feb-06 03:23:33 HOST: sverige it was here said: "I don't believe that social welfare is the responsibility of the government, personally. This is what the churches and rescue missions are supposed to be doing." My rebuttal is ... then WHAT is the responsibility of the government? After all, the preamble of the U.S. Constitution does declare that the people create the government for the purpose of ensuring their common interests including specifically the general welfare. There even used to be a cabinet level Department of Health, Education, and Welfare. Since then, "welfare" has been redefined by partisan interests to infer some kind of hardship upon the ruling minority, rather than its original reference to the well-being of all, notably food, clothing, and shelter. The reality in U.S. controlled countries is ... that business/economic interests control the government, as forewarned by Roosevelt; and that worse yet, the business interests are dominated by military (anti-peace pro-poverty) interests, as forewarned by Eisenhower. The political solution is to reject the two-party illusion. The economic solution is to not feed the beast; and to return to a distributed and loccalized ownership model which empowers rather than enslaves more people. The social solution is to localize political and economic determination. The ultimate solution is spiritual, because the natural solutions are at best improbable, and more probably impossible, to achieve; at least by natural, rather than spiritual, beings. There you have it. I've bet that you haven't reached/read/achieved this far yet again. Which is in part why you're in the unfortunate and astoundingly ridiculous predicament/quagmire you're in. -- so be it .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Ending homelessness DATE: 10-Feb-06 19:26:07 HOST: sverige the purpose of government is to PRINT MONEY and give it to partisan benefactors OR you could read in the Constitution what the government purpose is. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Ending homelessness DATE: 10-Feb-06 19:26:07 HOST: sverige the purpose of government is to PRINT MONEY and give it to partisan benefactors OR you could read in the Constitution what the government purpose is. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Ending homelessness DATE: 10-Feb-06 19:29:34 HOST: sverige it was said here that "The purpose of the government is to: A) Keep us safe from foreign/domestic/terroist attacks" One of the fallacies of this position is that governments existed long before the Rumsfeld-Cheney-Carlyle cabal, or their predecessors, provoked Islamist and Zionist extremists. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Ending homelessness DATE: 10-Feb-06 19:29:34 HOST: sverige it was said here that "The purpose of the government is to: A) Keep us safe from foreign/domestic/terroist attacks" One of the fallacies of this position is that governments existed long before the Rumsfeld-Cheney-Carlyle cabal, or their predecessors, provoked Islamist and Zionist extremists. ..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. finger? DATE: 10-Apr-06 21:19:16 HOST: sverige ... and, if sensible, maybe use .plan .profile and .pgpkey files ?? [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. finger? DATE: 10-Apr-06 21:19:16 HOST: sverige ... and, if sensible, maybe use .plan .profile and .pgpkey files ?? TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. finger? DATE: 11-Apr-06 02:50:49 HOST: sverige a quick web search shows that there are some other daemons, ffingerd and cfingerd for starters; and that .nofinger could be used to display non-standard content, or to generate a response equivalent of that for unknown user. A nice setup might be ... case of .nofinger exists empty: behave as if no user; .nofinger exists with content: display; else behave as normal; (with apologies for the semi-obscure syntax ) [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. finger? DATE: 11-Apr-06 02:50:49 HOST: sverige a quick web search shows that there are some other daemons, ffingerd and cfingerd for starters; and that .nofinger could be used to display non-standard content, or to generate a response equivalent of that for unknown user. A nice setup might be ... case of .nofinger exists empty: behave as if no user; .nofinger exists with content: display; else behave as normal; (with apologies for the semi-obscure syntax ) .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. greylist -t DATE: 10-Oct-06 18:01:03 HOST: sverige I don't know the answer to your question, but 'greylist -t' is a toggle, so using it twice doesn't make double sure that it's off :) Just as seriously, nobody has magic answers to mysterious events at SDF. The general rule-of-thumb is to not panic, to observe carefully over time, and to not panic and then to reassess the situation on another day. -- since you asked -- free hint #n: not all questions demand, or deserve, or even have, an answer. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. greylist -t DATE: 10-Oct-06 18:01:03 HOST: sverige I don't know the answer to your question, but 'greylist -t' is a toggle, so using it twice doesn't make double sure that it's off :) Just as seriously, nobody has magic answers to mysterious events at SDF. The general rule-of-thumb is to not panic, to observe carefully over time, and to not panic and then to reassess the situation on another day. -- since you asked -- free hint #n: not all questions demand, or deserve, or even have, an answer. .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Lack of sleep ('Motivation' subthread) DATE: 15-May-06 12:32:28 HOST: sverige "What should I eat or drink when I get up late" Water. Always lots of water. You can't get too much water, and probably nothing is more conducive to your overall health and wellbeing than water. Tea counts. Beer does not. Since you asked :) [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Lack of sleep ('Motivation' subthread) DATE: 15-May-06 12:32:28 HOST: sverige "What should I eat or drink when I get up late" Water. Always lots of water. You can't get too much water, and probably nothing is more conducive to your overall health and wellbeing than water. Tea counts. Beer does not. Since you asked :) TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Lack of sleep ('Motivation' subthread) DATE: 16-May-06 02:20:46 HOST: sverige Water_intoxication : interesting; thank you. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Lack of sleep ('Motivation' subthread) DATE: 16-May-06 02:20:46 HOST: sverige Water_intoxication : interesting; thank you. .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Downloading Wikipedia? DATE: 12-Apr-06 12:02:17 HOST: sverige sounds like a good bittorrent application. I'm sure they don't want hundreds of simultaneous ftp sessions going on those puppies. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Downloading Wikipedia? DATE: 12-Apr-06 12:02:17 HOST: sverige sounds like a good bittorrent application. I'm sure they don't want hundreds of simultaneous ftp sessions going on those puppies. ...TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Cirque Du Soleil DATE: 15-Apr-06 00:34:08 HOST: sverige TicketMaster isn't necessarily the scalper there. Those seats are expensive, and worth it. Very incredible shows, all of them. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Cirque Du Soleil DATE: 15-Apr-06 00:34:08 HOST: sverige TicketMaster isn't necessarily the scalper there. Those seats are expensive, and worth it. Very incredible shows, all of them. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Cirque Du Soleil DATE: 15-Apr-06 00:36:20 HOST: sverige in fact, you'll probably want to get on their email notification list, because the probability is pretty high that you won't otherwise get a ticket at the door. in my experience; yours may vary. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Cirque Du Soleil DATE: 15-Apr-06 00:36:20 HOST: sverige in fact, you'll probably want to get on their email notification list, because the probability is pretty high that you won't otherwise get a ticket at the door. in my experience; yours may vary. .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Is the NON dead? DATE: 15-Nov-06 20:21:30 HOST: sverige I hope, and think, that the NON is only dormant, waiting for enough support to either motivate smj or wrest some of the initiative from his control. Interested individuals are welcome to join the idle yet persistent group at irc.chatspike.net #The_NON (SSL via :6668) and to post at https://forum.nonnic.org/ [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Is the NON dead? DATE: 15-Nov-06 20:21:30 HOST: sverige I hope, and think, that the NON is only dormant, waiting for enough support to either motivate smj or wrest some of the initiative from his control. Interested individuals are welcome to join the idle yet persistent group at irc.chatspike.net #The_NON (SSL via :6668) and to post at https://forum.nonnic.org/ .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. need smtp server DATE: 21-Feb-06 02:26:10 HOST: sverige Remember when you log into smtp.freeshell.org to use your domain name (i.e. sheywood.freeshell.org or a vhosted domain name) as the userid for the smtp auth; and the password/secret set up with mkvpm. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. need smtp server DATE: 21-Feb-06 02:26:10 HOST: sverige Remember when you log into smtp.freeshell.org to use your domain name (i.e. sheywood.freeshell.org or a vhosted domain name) as the userid for the smtp auth; and the password/secret set up with mkvpm. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. need smtp server DATE: 22-Feb-06 14:40:32 HOST: sverige "What I am trying to do is to use sdf's smtp server to send mail while doing Pine and while logged on to sdf. I don't know why sdf's smtp server won't work for me while I am logged onto sdf." for Pine running on SDF, delete the configuration value for smtp-server. Since you're logged in and using the SDF local pine, auth is not required or used. for Pine running on your home computer, for VPM/VHOST userrs, set smtp-server=smtp.freeshell.org/notls/user=sheywood.freeshell.org and run mkvpm to set your password=secret for Dialup users, see smj's instructions in prior post If you're running Pine on your local computer, the inbox spec has to include /pop3 because Pine defaults to IMAP inbox-path={mail.freeshell.org/pop3/user=....}INBOX [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. need smtp server DATE: 22-Feb-06 14:40:32 HOST: sverige "What I am trying to do is to use sdf's smtp server to send mail while doing Pine and while logged on to sdf. I don't know why sdf's smtp server won't work for me while I am logged onto sdf." for Pine running on SDF, delete the configuration value for smtp-server. Since you're logged in and using the SDF local pine, auth is not required or used. for Pine running on your home computer, for VPM/VHOST userrs, set smtp-server=smtp.freeshell.org/notls/user=sheywood.freeshell.org and run mkvpm to set your password=secret for Dialup users, see smj's instructions in prior post If you're running Pine on your local computer, the inbox spec has to include /pop3 because Pine defaults to IMAP inbox-path={mail.freeshell.org/pop3/user=....}INBOX TACKER: sheywood (Samuel W. Heywood) SUBJECT: .. need smtp server DATE: 23-Feb-06 02:15:41 HOST: sdf To avoyager: You advised: "For Pine running on SDF, delete the configuration value for smtp server. Since you are logged in and using the sdf local pine, auth is not required or used." Thanks a lot. I checked out your advice, tested it, and it works! [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: sheywood (Samuel W. Heywood) SUBJECT: .. need smtp server DATE: 23-Feb-06 02:15:41 HOST: sdf To avoyager: You advised: "For Pine running on SDF, delete the configuration value for smtp server. Since you are logged in and using the sdf local pine, auth is not required or used." Thanks a lot. I checked out your advice, tested it, and it works! ..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. NetBSD Man pages DATE: 17-Mar-06 15:55:42 HOST: sverige well, I'm not sure what exactly constitutes your set of man pages, but I note after a little research that the published NetBSD Guide is about 366 pages in .pdf, and that in /usr/share/man ... the average file size in man1 is (tar.1) 9.5k which outputs 220 lines of text including blanks; there are roughly 4500k totals in man1 and 22000k in man*; at a generous 65 lines per printed sheet, that'd be 108,000 pages in man1 and half a million pages in man* You're welcome to check my my calculations of course, and to remind me that you weren't looking to print all the man pages published on the system. but I couldn't find the smaller subset. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. NetBSD Man pages DATE: 17-Mar-06 15:55:42 HOST: sverige well, I'm not sure what exactly constitutes your set of man pages, but I note after a little research that the published NetBSD Guide is about 366 pages in .pdf, and that in /usr/share/man ... the average file size in man1 is (tar.1) 9.5k which outputs 220 lines of text including blanks; there are roughly 4500k totals in man1 and 22000k in man*; at a generous 65 lines per printed sheet, that'd be 108,000 pages in man1 and half a million pages in man* You're welcome to check my my calculations of course, and to remind me that you weren't looking to print all the man pages published on the system. but I couldn't find the smaller subset. ..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. party planning help needed DATE: 18-May-06 11:29:56 HOST: sverige ref. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980s however, the wikipedia article fails to mention the 18 May 1980 eruption of Mt. St. Helens, noting today's "anniversary" thereof http://vulcan.wr.usgs.gov/Volcanoes/MSH/May18/summary_may18_eruption.html [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. party planning help needed DATE: 18-May-06 11:29:56 HOST: sverige ref. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980s however, the wikipedia article fails to mention the 18 May 1980 eruption of Mt. St. Helens, noting today's "anniversary" thereof http://vulcan.wr.usgs.gov/Volcanoes/MSH/May18/summary_may18_eruption.html .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Goodbye DATE: 13-Sep-06 20:11:26 HOST: sverige 20594 samble 62 4 2736K 1096K RUN 492:20 22.85% 22.85% uxlisp 6069 barnacle 62 4 1712K 1744K RUN 22.9H 21.92% 21.92% naim 21194 abowman 62 4 2632K 3944K RUN 424:21 21.19% 21.19% naim hhhhmmmmm...... [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Goodbye DATE: 13-Sep-06 20:11:26 HOST: sverige 20594 samble 62 4 2736K 1096K RUN 492:20 22.85% 22.85% uxlisp 6069 barnacle 62 4 1712K 1744K RUN 22.9H 21.92% 21.92% naim 21194 abowman 62 4 2632K 3944K RUN 424:21 21.19% 21.19% naim hhhhmmmmm...... .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Goodbye DATE: 24-Aug-06 02:59:55 HOST: sverige quite so!! http://barnacle.freeshell.org/0000084.html [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Goodbye DATE: 24-Aug-06 02:59:55 HOST: sverige quite so!! http://barnacle.freeshell.org/0000084.html TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Wanted - JUL MUST DATE: 20-Dec-05 21:12:29 HOST: sverige or it's 'gluug', of swedish or scandanavian origins, spicey, warm, alcoholic, stirred in a pot on the fire, possibly with fruit in it, for festive greetings; and a *whole* lot different than eggnog; can be quite tasty and warm on the insides actually. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Wanted - JUL MUST DATE: 20-Dec-05 21:12:29 HOST: sverige or it's 'gluug', of swedish or scandanavian origins, spicey, warm, alcoholic, stirred in a pot on the fire, possibly with fruit in it, for festive greetings; and a *whole* lot different than eggnog; can be quite tasty and warm on the insides actually. ....TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Building a computer to give away. DATE: 22-Mar-06 18:17:45 HOST: sverige It hardly matters which OS is used if the old geezer is going to download dozens of Acrobat Installers rather than the documents themselves :) [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Building a computer to give away. DATE: 22-Mar-06 18:17:45 HOST: sverige It hardly matters which OS is used if the old geezer is going to download dozens of Acrobat Installers rather than the documents themselves :) .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Sverige rebooted? DATE: 23-Feb-06 23:15:02 HOST: sverige $ hostname;uptime sverige 11:14PM up 6:52, [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Sverige rebooted? DATE: 23-Feb-06 23:15:02 HOST: sverige $ hostname;uptime sverige 11:14PM up 6:52, ..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. icemage's ARPA (everyone speak up) DATE: 24-Jun-06 12:59:34 HOST: sverige IIRC we've done that twice already now. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. icemage's ARPA (everyone speak up) DATE: 24-Jun-06 12:59:34 HOST: sverige IIRC we've done that twice already now. TACKER: icemage (frost) SUBJECT: .. icemage's ARPA (everyone speak up) DATE: 27-Jun-06 05:39:05 HOST: sdf My response to some of the posts so far... avoyager : IIRC we've done that twice already now. Smj has told me to do it agian. sgrant : What _was_ the purpose of this message? The purpose of this message is to have all of you help me ask for my "arpa" membership back. That is the only way smj will give it back to me; which he has said to me in an e-mail. wonko : You can get ARPA by paying 36 dollars, like everyone else. I've done that once. I also sent in that extra money for the bumper sticker...which I never got. corster : frost got booted for acting like a kiddie and abusing SDF, was given a second chance and blew that one. I never got a second chance whit my arpa membership. Whit out warning it was taken away from me; and I have been fighting tooth and nail for it ever since. Please, I beg of you all ask smj to give me my arpa membership back. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: icemage (frost) SUBJECT: .. icemage's ARPA (everyone speak up) DATE: 27-Jun-06 05:39:05 HOST: sdf My response to some of the posts so far... avoyager : IIRC we've done that twice already now. Smj has told me to do it agian. sgrant : What _was_ the purpose of this message? The purpose of this message is to have all of you help me ask for my "arpa" membership back. That is the only way smj will give it back to me; which he has said to me in an e-mail. wonko : You can get ARPA by paying 36 dollars, like everyone else. I've done that once. I also sent in that extra money for the bumper sticker...which I never got. corster : frost got booted for acting like a kiddie and abusing SDF, was given a second chance and blew that one. I never got a second chance whit my arpa membership. Whit out warning it was taken away from me; and I have been fighting tooth and nail for it ever since. Please, I beg of you all ask smj to give me my arpa membership back. .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. icemage's ARPA (everyone speak up) DATE: 30-Jun-06 21:04:08 HOST: sverige I was going to say something about how happy I'd be to see this conversation take place on its own board that I could ignore .... .... and then I saw the GOODBYE board and .... reflected that it probably would be even better over there. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. icemage's ARPA (everyone speak up) DATE: 30-Jun-06 21:04:08 HOST: sverige I was going to say something about how happy I'd be to see this conversation take place on its own board that I could ignore .... .... and then I saw the GOODBYE board and .... reflected that it probably would be even better over there. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Nerve Damage? DATE: 24-Jun-06 13:05:55 HOST: sverige Every now and then the dentist's novacaine needle catches a nerve, and it is immediately noticeable; and completely absent after a few hours; and that is a very tiny needle. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Nerve Damage? DATE: 24-Jun-06 13:05:55 HOST: sverige Every now and then the dentist's novacaine needle catches a nerve, and it is immediately noticeable; and completely absent after a few hours; and that is a very tiny needle. ..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Happy sysadmin day ! DATE: 27-Jul-06 18:42:44 HOST: sverige On SDF, *every* day is 'smj day' ;-} [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Happy sysadmin day ! DATE: 27-Jul-06 18:42:44 HOST: sverige On SDF, *every* day is 'smj day' ;-} ..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Testing Home Broadband Connection Speed DATE: 29-Apr-06 14:52:10 HOST: sverige also visualroute.org has a speed test [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Testing Home Broadband Connection Speed DATE: 29-Apr-06 14:52:10 HOST: sverige also visualroute.org has a speed test .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. google's business ... DATE: 28-Jan-06 21:14:23 HOST: sverige and trading at 50x earnings [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. google's business ... DATE: 28-Jan-06 21:14:23 HOST: sverige and trading at 50x earnings TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. SOLIDARITY or WORK Monday May 1st? DATE: 01-May-06 12:32:26 HOST: sverige Wealth in the United States has always been generated by the labor of immigrants. The only rule in America was, and is, to transfer wealth from the laborers to the ruling elite. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. SOLIDARITY or WORK Monday May 1st? DATE: 01-May-06 12:32:26 HOST: sverige Wealth in the United States has always been generated by the labor of immigrants. The only rule in America was, and is, to transfer wealth from the laborers to the ruling elite. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. SOLIDARITY or WORK Monday May 1st? DATE: 29-Apr-06 19:09:01 HOST: sverige It's just another fabricated distraction from the criminal activities taking place in the halls of U.S. Government. I'm going to work in solidarity. (solitude?) (solace?) [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. SOLIDARITY or WORK Monday May 1st? DATE: 29-Apr-06 19:09:01 HOST: sverige It's just another fabricated distraction from the criminal activities taking place in the halls of U.S. Government. I'm going to work in solidarity. (solitude?) (solace?) .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. SOLIDARITY or WORK Monday May 1st? DATE: 30-Apr-06 17:35:35 HOST: sverige "Has anyone here ever known or even worked with a Mexican or Latin American illegal immigrant?" Absolutely. Great folks. Hard working, friendly, helpful, sincere, humble, "salt of the earth" individuals. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. SOLIDARITY or WORK Monday May 1st? DATE: 30-Apr-06 17:35:35 HOST: sverige "Has anyone here ever known or even worked with a Mexican or Latin American illegal immigrant?" Absolutely. Great folks. Hard working, friendly, helpful, sincere, humble, "salt of the earth" individuals. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. SOLIDARITY or WORK Monday May 1st? DATE: 30-Apr-06 21:05:38 HOST: sverige Stephen, it's not a blanket generalization. It's a description of my personal experience. I understand without dispute that your personal experiences have been different. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. SOLIDARITY or WORK Monday May 1st? DATE: 30-Apr-06 21:05:38 HOST: sverige Stephen, it's not a blanket generalization. It's a description of my personal experience. I understand without dispute that your personal experiences have been different. ..........TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. keeping dust out of computers? DATE: 24-Dec-05 21:47:11 HOST: sverige I'm pretty sure that my Enermax is blowing air out of the case. It's about 4 yrs old by now. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. keeping dust out of computers? DATE: 24-Dec-05 21:47:11 HOST: sverige I'm pretty sure that my Enermax is blowing air out of the case. It's about 4 yrs old by now. .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Arpa membership question DATE: 01-Aug-06 23:58:40 HOST: sverige "what does being an ARPA member provide?" "being an ARPA member", like being a human, is not about what it provides, but is about what you provide. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Arpa membership question DATE: 01-Aug-06 23:58:40 HOST: sverige "what does being an ARPA member provide?" "being an ARPA member", like being a human, is not about what it provides, but is about what you provide. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Setting up Port Tunneling DATE: 02-Jun-06 11:47:40 HOST: sverige Hi Rick. It works fine; it's all handled by the ssh client at hand and the sshd host on sverige for Meta-ARPA membership level SDFers. Thanks for supporting SDF. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Setting up Port Tunneling DATE: 02-Jun-06 11:47:40 HOST: sverige Hi Rick. It works fine; it's all handled by the ssh client at hand and the sshd host on sverige for Meta-ARPA membership level SDFers. Thanks for supporting SDF. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. MetaARPA, ssh tunnels, and sshd_config on otaku DATE: 01-Mar-06 22:23:38 HOST: sverige 1. I'm not ready to vote yet. 2. I'm not ready to swallow a doubling of annual fee just yet. 3. The opened ports can be established to listen on any or all interfaces; I don't know if they can be restricted to listen only on localhost, which would mean that they could only be accessed from the SDF server. 4. I would appreciate, here or privately, a couple examples of how this feature can be useful. I understand and use ssh local port forwarding, and can imagine, maybe, a remote forward application, but lack real-world experience or need. 5. Shouldn't all opening of listening ports be considered a server application? a port forward is pretty much the same as a proxy. A sock is tied up listening; a service runs full time to listen and respond; and network traffic comes in, AND goes back out on SDF lines. 6. Should/Can the number of connections and/or bandwidth be throttled? And, at risk fo repeating myself, I note that Meta-ARPA membership level is "bought", not "earned". Trust is earned, not bought. Thank you. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. MetaARPA, ssh tunnels, and sshd_config on otaku DATE: 01-Mar-06 22:23:38 HOST: sverige 1. I'm not ready to vote yet. 2. I'm not ready to swallow a doubling of annual fee just yet. 3. The opened ports can be established to listen on any or all interfaces; I don't know if they can be restricted to listen only on localhost, which would mean that they could only be accessed from the SDF server. 4. I would appreciate, here or privately, a couple examples of how this feature can be useful. I understand and use ssh local port forwarding, and can imagine, maybe, a remote forward application, but lack real-world experience or need. 5. Shouldn't all opening of listening ports be considered a server application? a port forward is pretty much the same as a proxy. A sock is tied up listening; a service runs full time to listen and respond; and network traffic comes in, AND goes back out on SDF lines. 6. Should/Can the number of connections and/or bandwidth be throttled? And, at risk fo repeating myself, I note that Meta-ARPA membership level is "bought", not "earned". Trust is earned, not bought. Thank you. .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Accessing email from Cingular Cell Phone DATE: 01-Mar-06 22:17:35 HOST: sverige Isn't Cingluar a network provider and not a phone manufacturer? Are you sure that you don't configure to use their network access for outbound email? In any event, use of SDF outbound SMTP server requires a VPM or VHOST membership level. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Accessing email from Cingular Cell Phone DATE: 01-Mar-06 22:17:35 HOST: sverige Isn't Cingluar a network provider and not a phone manufacturer? Are you sure that you don't configure to use their network access for outbound email? In any event, use of SDF outbound SMTP server requires a VPM or VHOST membership level. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Secure browser access with SDF and SSH DATE: 01-May-06 12:05:48 HOST: sverige SSH tunnels provide a connection from one local port on your system to one remote host:port To browse through an SSH tunnel you need to browse to an http or socks proxy. Doing this on SDF has been discussed this year. In the archives, start with ARPA (that's a guess) board or search for proxy. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Secure browser access with SDF and SSH DATE: 01-May-06 12:05:48 HOST: sverige SSH tunnels provide a connection from one local port on your system to one remote host:port To browse through an SSH tunnel you need to browse to an http or socks proxy. Doing this on SDF has been discussed this year. In the archives, start with ARPA (that's a guess) board or search for proxy. .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. ssh authorized_keys DATE: 18-Apr-06 01:08:12 HOST: sverige "(authorized_keys must be 700" 600 works also :) [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. ssh authorized_keys DATE: 18-Apr-06 01:08:12 HOST: sverige "(authorized_keys must be 700" 600 works also :) TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. problem with outgoing mail DATE: 03-Nov-06 15:16:35 HOST: sverige By the way, the most common cause of mail gone missing is when the recipient server (not user) applys filtering which accepts mail and then deletes it without delivery. The second most common is probably user filters which inadvertently catch something. That's not to say anything about the experiences already stated here by SDF users. I don't know what happened to those. I'm only mentioning the most probable scenarios. Another possibility might be that the recipient server accepted the mail, and then attempted to bounce it back to SDF, and that the bounce was for some reason rejected by SDF server or user filter. The most least likely possibility is that the SDF mail server just "lost" one message out of every few thousand; but in an nfs glitch maybe that could happen, I don't knoow. I would suggest however that a polite request of smj to check the log for status report, giving him good data about time, recipient, and sender; while realizing that you're asking him to do something for nothing when he gets the chance; might be well received. Now, I wonder if a membership level would be appropriate for receiving mail logs relative to the user, grepped out during logrotate; together with http logs. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. problem with outgoing mail DATE: 03-Nov-06 15:16:35 HOST: sverige By the way, the most common cause of mail gone missing is when the recipient server (not user) applys filtering which accepts mail and then deletes it without delivery. The second most common is probably user filters which inadvertently catch something. That's not to say anything about the experiences already stated here by SDF users. I don't know what happened to those. I'm only mentioning the most probable scenarios. Another possibility might be that the recipient server accepted the mail, and then attempted to bounce it back to SDF, and that the bounce was for some reason rejected by SDF server or user filter. The most least likely possibility is that the SDF mail server just "lost" one message out of every few thousand; but in an nfs glitch maybe that could happen, I don't knoow. I would suggest however that a polite request of smj to check the log for status report, giving him good data about time, recipient, and sender; while realizing that you're asking him to do something for nothing when he gets the chance; might be well received. Now, I wonder if a membership level would be appropriate for receiving mail logs relative to the user, grepped out during logrotate; together with http logs. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. proxy authentication DATE: 02-Oct-06 16:14:08 HOST: sverige I agree with, and do same as, wliao; with the exception of using something lighter weight than squid and more suitable for just proxying without cacheing. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. proxy authentication DATE: 02-Oct-06 16:14:08 HOST: sverige I agree with, and do same as, wliao; with the exception of using something lighter weight than squid and more suitable for just proxying without cacheing. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. proxy authentication DATE: 02-Oct-06 17:54:08 HOST: sverige selever, Don't think about "proxy tunnelling". Think of them separately. Your remote server runs sshd; and it runs a proxy, separately. You connect from home to its sshd, using your SSH client, and you create a "tunnel" (local port forward) such as -L 127.0.0.1:5000:127.0.0.1:8000 (your_loopback:local_port_5000:remote_loopback:remote_port_8000) Your remote proxy is listening on 127.0.0.1:8000 (port 8000, bound to it's loopback/localhost interface) For squid, that'd be http_port 127.0.0.1:8000 http_access allow localhost # and since you're only listening on localhost, you don't need the # following, but it'd be safe and harmless to include, after the foregoing. http_access deny all If all you're doing is proxy, not cacheing, squid is the wrong tool, but it'll work. On your desktop client, set it up to use http proxy at 127.0.0.1:8000 An even better solution is probably to not use a separate proxy at all, but use the SOCKS proxy built into sshd by creating a "dynamic" rather than "local" tunnel (port forward). To do this, replace the -L line with -D 5000 and 127.0.0.1:5000 becomes your SOCKS proxy, encrypted between your desktop and your remote server; connections to a remote host being made from your remote server, masking your desktop IP. How's that? [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. proxy authentication DATE: 02-Oct-06 17:54:08 HOST: sverige selever, Don't think about "proxy tunnelling". Think of them separately. Your remote server runs sshd; and it runs a proxy, separately. You connect from home to its sshd, using your SSH client, and you create a "tunnel" (local port forward) such as -L 127.0.0.1:5000:127.0.0.1:8000 (your_loopback:local_port_5000:remote_loopback:remote_port_8000) Your remote proxy is listening on 127.0.0.1:8000 (port 8000, bound to it's loopback/localhost interface) For squid, that'd be http_port 127.0.0.1:8000 http_access allow localhost # and since you're only listening on localhost, you don't need the # following, but it'd be safe and harmless to include, after the foregoing. http_access deny all If all you're doing is proxy, not cacheing, squid is the wrong tool, but it'll work. On your desktop client, set it up to use http proxy at 127.0.0.1:8000 An even better solution is probably to not use a separate proxy at all, but use the SOCKS proxy built into sshd by creating a "dynamic" rather than "local" tunnel (port forward). To do this, replace the -L line with -D 5000 and 127.0.0.1:5000 becomes your SOCKS proxy, encrypted between your desktop and your remote server; connections to a remote host being made from your remote server, masking your desktop IP. How's that? TACKER: selever (Nic Reveles) SUBJECT: .. proxy authentication DATE: 03-Oct-06 23:47:42 HOST: norge Thanks avoyager. I am still a bit thick about this though. 1. Is the SOCKS proxy already running on sshd? Which port is it on by default? 2. I am getting denied access from squid, and I cannot figure out how I am even getting that. I am going to briefly explain my settings on both computers: --------- Windows Computer: I've set up MS IE to accept a proxy for 127.0.0.1 on port 3128. With SSH Secure Shell: Display Name: doesn't matter Type: TCP Listen Port: 3128 Allow Local Connections Only -checked- Destination Port: 3128 With PuTTY: (via cmd prompt) putty -D 3128 -P 22 -ssh 192.168.0.100 -or- putty -L 3128 -P 22 -ssh 192.168.0.100 BSD computer: Squid is running on 3128. Squid is running the way it came, so there is no auth_param added. Am I wrong in assuming I do not need one for ssh? ---------- Does anything look blatantly wrong? As you can see, I've been busy trying just about every combination of anything I can come up with. What I cannot figure out is, when I have no ssh connection to the BSD computer (192.168.0.100), why do I still get "Access Denied" errors from squid if the proxy is set up to be 127.0.0.1:3128? Sorry for being so thick... this is driving me insane. Google surprisingly isn't much of a help on the issue. Nic [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: selever (Nic Reveles) SUBJECT: .. proxy authentication DATE: 03-Oct-06 23:47:42 HOST: norge Thanks avoyager. I am still a bit thick about this though. 1. Is the SOCKS proxy already running on sshd? Which port is it on by default? 2. I am getting denied access from squid, and I cannot figure out how I am even getting that. I am going to briefly explain my settings on both computers: --------- Windows Computer: I've set up MS IE to accept a proxy for 127.0.0.1 on port 3128. With SSH Secure Shell: Display Name: doesn't matter Type: TCP Listen Port: 3128 Allow Local Connections Only -checked- Destination Port: 3128 With PuTTY: (via cmd prompt) putty -D 3128 -P 22 -ssh 192.168.0.100 -or- putty -L 3128 -P 22 -ssh 192.168.0.100 BSD computer: Squid is running on 3128. Squid is running the way it came, so there is no auth_param added. Am I wrong in assuming I do not need one for ssh? ---------- Does anything look blatantly wrong? As you can see, I've been busy trying just about every combination of anything I can come up with. What I cannot figure out is, when I have no ssh connection to the BSD computer (192.168.0.100), why do I still get "Access Denied" errors from squid if the proxy is set up to be 127.0.0.1:3128? Sorry for being so thick... this is driving me insane. Google surprisingly isn't much of a help on the issue. Nic TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. No Junk or Spam Email - Hooray DATE: 03-Oct-06 12:55:19 HOST: sverige I've also started a tutorial on Greylisting. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. No Junk or Spam Email - Hooray DATE: 03-Oct-06 12:55:19 HOST: sverige I've also started a tutorial on Greylisting. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. yahoogroups says I'm bouncing... DATE: 02-Sep-06 21:05:26 HOST: sverige To request that SDF not block email from yahoo groups, you place a post into the REQUESTS board asking that SDF stop using the SpamCop DNSBL on incoming mail, or to alter the way it is used, so that perhaps SpamCop listed clients are greylisted rather than rejected with a permanently rejected response code; or that envelope senders @returns.groups.yahoo.com (optionally with yahoo assigned client IP requirement) be whitelisted; or whatever. The whitelist would be easy; the conditional greylisting may go better if you dig up some sendmail admins to explain how to set it up. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. yahoogroups says I'm bouncing... DATE: 02-Sep-06 21:05:26 HOST: sverige To request that SDF not block email from yahoo groups, you place a post into the REQUESTS board asking that SDF stop using the SpamCop DNSBL on incoming mail, or to alter the way it is used, so that perhaps SpamCop listed clients are greylisted rather than rejected with a permanently rejected response code; or that envelope senders @returns.groups.yahoo.com (optionally with yahoo assigned client IP requirement) be whitelisted; or whatever. The whitelist would be easy; the conditional greylisting may go better if you dig up some sendmail admins to explain how to set it up. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Does reading USENET reveal my e-mail address? DATE: 03-Jun-06 19:15:58 HOST: sverige Correction. Pine only sends what you tell it is your real name and email address. Furthermore, it can be configured to use innumerable different "identities" of name/address combinations, and innumerable outboud servers. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Does reading USENET reveal my e-mail address? DATE: 03-Jun-06 19:15:58 HOST: sverige Correction. Pine only sends what you tell it is your real name and email address. Furthermore, it can be configured to use innumerable different "identities" of name/address combinations, and innumerable outboud servers. .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. any debian folks here? DATE: 14-Jul-06 22:09:06 HOST: sverige Thanks to user angelo (I think) in the archives for this tip: "I would suggest trying to install using the Debian NetInstall CD at: http://www.us.debian.org/CD/netinst/" I went that route to install into a VirtualPC guest, and it went so beautifully as to have been FUN. Now to find a good walk-thru tutorial to complement my local copy of the Rute text. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. any debian folks here? DATE: 14-Jul-06 22:09:06 HOST: sverige Thanks to user angelo (I think) in the archives for this tip: "I would suggest trying to install using the Debian NetInstall CD at: http://www.us.debian.org/CD/netinst/" I went that route to install into a VirtualPC guest, and it went so beautifully as to have been FUN. Now to find a good walk-thru tutorial to complement my local copy of the Rute text. .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. .profile and new mail DATE: 05-Nov-06 02:18:10 HOST: sverige man biff [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. .profile and new mail DATE: 05-Nov-06 02:18:10 HOST: sverige man biff TACKER: dkp (David Patton) SUBJECT: .. .profile and new mail DATE: 06-Nov-06 19:45:51 HOST: sdf avoyager - my understanding of biff is that you get notifications for your current session, but not for new messages on login. -dkp [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: dkp (David Patton) SUBJECT: .. .profile and new mail DATE: 06-Nov-06 19:45:51 HOST: sdf avoyager - my understanding of biff is that you get notifications for your current session, but not for new messages on login. -dkp TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. help using the /mail quota DATE: 05-Oct-06 13:06:33 HOST: sverige This may [ought to] be in a tutorial, if it's correct, but what I've discerned is that: The SDF mailhost which receives inbound mail, delivers it to your $MAIL file (/mail/$USER) which resides, relative to your $HOME filespace, on a remote NFS drive, "across the wire", and requires NFS resources to read or write. Accordingly, moving very large files across NFS is a resource burden, and a risk to file integrity, which is why it is not good to use that space for long term storage. It is not a directory which accomodates lots of files; it is your single inbound mail file. Its generous size is an accomodation for special temporary needs in the form of lots of and/or very large inbound email. It is by design a transfer location, not a storage location. Other directories and files in your $HOME directory are used by different email reading programs. Some programs use single file mbox storage which is used for $MAIL. Others use maildir/ storage with each email in a separate file. Many can accomodate either by configuration. In your $HOME directory, $HOME/Mail/ is a maildir commonly used by mutt $HOME/mbox is a mbox commonly used by mail to store mail after it's read from $MAIL ... $HOME/mbox is also a common inbox for Pine to which on startup appends whatever it finds in $MAIL $HOME/mail/ is a directory of mbox format "folders" used by Pine. Trusting that others will correct my mistakes, and .... --because you asked ;-} [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. help using the /mail quota DATE: 05-Oct-06 13:06:33 HOST: sverige This may [ought to] be in a tutorial, if it's correct, but what I've discerned is that: The SDF mailhost which receives inbound mail, delivers it to your $MAIL file (/mail/$USER) which resides, relative to your $HOME filespace, on a remote NFS drive, "across the wire", and requires NFS resources to read or write. Accordingly, moving very large files across NFS is a resource burden, and a risk to file integrity, which is why it is not good to use that space for long term storage. It is not a directory which accomodates lots of files; it is your single inbound mail file. Its generous size is an accomodation for special temporary needs in the form of lots of and/or very large inbound email. It is by design a transfer location, not a storage location. Other directories and files in your $HOME directory are used by different email reading programs. Some programs use single file mbox storage which is used for $MAIL. Others use maildir/ storage with each email in a separate file. Many can accomodate either by configuration. In your $HOME directory, $HOME/Mail/ is a maildir commonly used by mutt $HOME/mbox is a mbox commonly used by mail to store mail after it's read from $MAIL ... $HOME/mbox is also a common inbox for Pine to which on startup appends whatever it finds in $MAIL $HOME/mail/ is a directory of mbox format "folders" used by Pine. Trusting that others will correct my mistakes, and .... --because you asked ;-} TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. help using the /mail quota DATE: 06-Oct-06 03:47:46 HOST: sverige You're welcome :) [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. help using the /mail quota DATE: 06-Oct-06 03:47:46 HOST: sverige You're welcome :) .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Access to SDF HELP!!! DATE: 07-Jun-06 19:58:15 HOST: sverige in the past, this behavior has been attributed to NFS issues; during this most recent outage, I was active in an SDF hosted IRC client without difficulties. (and looking in IRC nets for #SDF-panic) [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Access to SDF HELP!!! DATE: 07-Jun-06 19:58:15 HOST: sverige in the past, this behavior has been attributed to NFS issues; during this most recent outage, I was active in an SDF hosted IRC client without difficulties. (and looking in IRC nets for #SDF-panic) TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Access to SDF HELP!!! DATE: 07-Jun-06 21:13:04 HOST: sverige $ stty erase '^h' echoe $ works fine on sverige to /bin/stty [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Access to SDF HELP!!! DATE: 07-Jun-06 21:13:04 HOST: sverige $ stty erase '^h' echoe $ works fine on sverige to /bin/stty .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Access to SDF HELP!!! DATE: 09-Jun-06 02:37:19 HOST: sverige Now would be a good time to presume that smj is on vacation, even out of the country. It's also a good opportunity to take a more laid back position with regard to your expectations of others; think about some things beside your particular desires. You'll feel better, and probably be more productive :) [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Access to SDF HELP!!! DATE: 09-Jun-06 02:37:19 HOST: sverige Now would be a good time to presume that smj is on vacation, even out of the country. It's also a good opportunity to take a more laid back position with regard to your expectations of others; think about some things beside your particular desires. You'll feel better, and probably be more productive :) ..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. spamcop (again) DATE: 08-Sep-06 12:43:33 HOST: sverige Brian, I don't think it's within webmail's power to refuse outgoing messages. Please re-examine the situation more carefully. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. spamcop (again) DATE: 08-Sep-06 12:43:33 HOST: sverige Brian, I don't think it's within webmail's power to refuse outgoing messages. Please re-examine the situation more carefully. .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Need help configuring SSH DATE: 10-Jul-06 23:32:12 HOST: sverige authorized_keys needs to be 600 [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Need help configuring SSH DATE: 10-Jul-06 23:32:12 HOST: sverige authorized_keys needs to be 600 TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Need help configuring SSH DATE: 11-Jul-06 13:04:10 HOST: sverige 1. Keys are not transferrable between hosts, so stop doing that. 2. On SDF, remove your .ssh/ and start over from the beginning, proceeding carefully. Look for a tutorial on the SDF website. My relevant permissions on SDF, which work, are : $HOME 750 .ssh/ 700 files in .ssh/ 600 except the .pub files (your resetting those was non-attentive) [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Need help configuring SSH DATE: 11-Jul-06 13:04:10 HOST: sverige 1. Keys are not transferrable between hosts, so stop doing that. 2. On SDF, remove your .ssh/ and start over from the beginning, proceeding carefully. Look for a tutorial on the SDF website. My relevant permissions on SDF, which work, are : $HOME 750 .ssh/ 700 files in .ssh/ 600 except the .pub files (your resetting those was non-attentive) TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Secure Tunnel/Connection for IMAP DATE: 10-Mar-06 14:30:06 HOST: sverige I can't speak to mail.app, but Pine can be configured to view either directories or INBOX. It would seem that INBOX is what is listening on :143 and :993 (in Pine terms) -- in case you prefer that to the directories. ssh -L 9999:mail.freeshell.org:143 rbigelo@sdf.lonestar.org may work for you as an alternate form Also, it doesn't have to be 'sdf'. You could use any host which accepts you; but not 'tty'. The only thing you get by using SSL thru SSH is encryption between the remote end of the SSH tunnel, and the final host. In this implementation, that's not very far (sdf to mail). For longer routes, this combination can be used to retrieve mail indirectly, so that neither end knows about the other. The SSL authentication can be tricky, possibly impossible, to work out however, when tunneled via SSH. Enjoy ;-} [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Secure Tunnel/Connection for IMAP DATE: 10-Mar-06 14:30:06 HOST: sverige I can't speak to mail.app, but Pine can be configured to view either directories or INBOX. It would seem that INBOX is what is listening on :143 and :993 (in Pine terms) -- in case you prefer that to the directories. ssh -L 9999:mail.freeshell.org:143 rbigelo@sdf.lonestar.org may work for you as an alternate form Also, it doesn't have to be 'sdf'. You could use any host which accepts you; but not 'tty'. The only thing you get by using SSL thru SSH is encryption between the remote end of the SSH tunnel, and the final host. In this implementation, that's not very far (sdf to mail). For longer routes, this combination can be used to retrieve mail indirectly, so that neither end knows about the other. The SSL authentication can be tricky, possibly impossible, to work out however, when tunneled via SSH. Enjoy ;-} TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Secure Tunnel/Connection for IMAP DATE: 12-Mar-06 22:49:18 HOST: sverige Robert, I don't see any trouble for SDF beyond that which would be otherwise attributable to polling the mail server. Stephen as stated that mail checks should be no more frequent than 15 minute intervals. The making of that request via a tunnel rather than direct, may actually be easier on the overall system, since/if you're using the ssh connection already for other purposes. At any rate, I celebrate with you the joy of new experience. :) -avo [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Secure Tunnel/Connection for IMAP DATE: 12-Mar-06 22:49:18 HOST: sverige Robert, I don't see any trouble for SDF beyond that which would be otherwise attributable to polling the mail server. Stephen as stated that mail checks should be no more frequent than 15 minute intervals. The making of that request via a tunnel rather than direct, may actually be easier on the overall system, since/if you're using the ssh connection already for other purposes. At any rate, I celebrate with you the joy of new experience. :) -avo .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. PPI for serial port hand shakes? DATE: 11-Nov-06 06:08:26 HOST: sverige Nic, There is no handshaking in serial with only one data pin :) Serial uses one pin connection for transmit, another for receive, and others for hardware handshaking. You can use XON/XOFF with a 2-3 pin connection; but for high speeds and quick responses the hardware handshaking across dedicated pins is preferred. Search for "async" libraries. and have a lot of frustrating fun :) - avo [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. PPI for serial port hand shakes? DATE: 11-Nov-06 06:08:26 HOST: sverige Nic, There is no handshaking in serial with only one data pin :) Serial uses one pin connection for transmit, another for receive, and others for hardware handshaking. You can use XON/XOFF with a 2-3 pin connection; but for high speeds and quick responses the hardware handshaking across dedicated pins is preferred. Search for "async" libraries. and have a lot of frustrating fun :) - avo TACKER: selever (Nic Reveles) SUBJECT: .. PPI for serial port hand shakes? DATE: 12-Nov-06 16:48:46 HOST: norge Thank you for the responce, Avoyager. I think I might be able to use my existing set up if I only knew what my serial port was called. I looked online and thought it should be 'sio0' or something similar. Perhaps psm0? $ ls /dev acd0 acpi ad0 ad0s1 ad0s1a ad0s1b ad0s1c ad0s1d ad0s1e ad0s1f ata atkbd0 bpf0 bpsm0 console consolectl ctty cuaa0 cuaia0 cuala0 devctl devstat fd fido geom.ctl io kbd0 klog kmem log lpt0 lpt0.ctl mdctl mem net net1 net2 net3 network nfs4 null pci ppi0 psm0 ptyp0 ptyp1 ptyp2 random stderr stdin stdout sysmouse ttyd0 ttyid0 ttyld0 ttyp0 ttyp1 ttyp2 ttyv0 ttyv1 ttyv2 ttyv3 ttyv4 ttyv5 ttyv6 ttyv7 ttyv8 ttyv9 ttyva ttyvb ttyvc ttyvd ttyve ttyvf urandom usb usb0 usb1 xpt0 zero There is a sio0 listed in 'dmesg', but it's not listed in /dev. sio0: <16550A-compatible COM port> port 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 flags 0x10 on acpi0 sio0: type 16550A So I am a little confused. Does anyone have an answer? Nic [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: selever (Nic Reveles) SUBJECT: .. PPI for serial port hand shakes? DATE: 12-Nov-06 16:48:46 HOST: norge Thank you for the responce, Avoyager. I think I might be able to use my existing set up if I only knew what my serial port was called. I looked online and thought it should be 'sio0' or something similar. Perhaps psm0? $ ls /dev acd0 acpi ad0 ad0s1 ad0s1a ad0s1b ad0s1c ad0s1d ad0s1e ad0s1f ata atkbd0 bpf0 bpsm0 console consolectl ctty cuaa0 cuaia0 cuala0 devctl devstat fd fido geom.ctl io kbd0 klog kmem log lpt0 lpt0.ctl mdctl mem net net1 net2 net3 network nfs4 null pci ppi0 psm0 ptyp0 ptyp1 ptyp2 random stderr stdin stdout sysmouse ttyd0 ttyid0 ttyld0 ttyp0 ttyp1 ttyp2 ttyv0 ttyv1 ttyv2 ttyv3 ttyv4 ttyv5 ttyv6 ttyv7 ttyv8 ttyv9 ttyva ttyvb ttyvc ttyvd ttyve ttyvf urandom usb usb0 usb1 xpt0 zero There is a sio0 listed in 'dmesg', but it's not listed in /dev. sio0: <16550A-compatible COM port> port 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 flags 0x10 on acpi0 sio0: type 16550A So I am a little confused. Does anyone have an answer? Nic TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. PPI for serial port hand shakes? DATE: 12-Nov-06 23:07:59 HOST: sverige ? you may need to create a device, with a driver ? http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Serial-HOWTO.html may be helpful [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. PPI for serial port hand shakes? DATE: 12-Nov-06 23:07:59 HOST: sverige ? you may need to create a device, with a driver ? http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Serial-HOWTO.html may be helpful TACKER: selever (Nic Reveles) SUBJECT: .. PPI for serial port hand shakes? DATE: 13-Nov-06 03:36:13 HOST: norge Thank you again Avoyager. I think my serial port is actually ttyd0. I admit that I am now a bit confused about the serial port. There seems to be a constant 10 volts running through. I measured this with a voltmeter. I tried to turn off all the pins with a quick program I wrote, but the 10V remained. So my question should be: Is it not a trivial task to turn a serial port pin on and off at a user command? I realize now that the serial port streams data unlike the parallel port, but I thought it should still be an easy task of switching out a few line of code. Nic [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: selever (Nic Reveles) SUBJECT: .. PPI for serial port hand shakes? DATE: 13-Nov-06 03:36:13 HOST: norge Thank you again Avoyager. I think my serial port is actually ttyd0. I admit that I am now a bit confused about the serial port. There seems to be a constant 10 volts running through. I measured this with a voltmeter. I tried to turn off all the pins with a quick program I wrote, but the 10V remained. So my question should be: Is it not a trivial task to turn a serial port pin on and off at a user command? I realize now that the serial port streams data unlike the parallel port, but I thought it should still be an easy task of switching out a few line of code. Nic TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. PPI for serial port hand shakes? DATE: 13-Nov-06 21:17:45 HOST: sverige Nic, you're in way over my head. The only way I ever semi-directly altered the line on a pin was via jumpers on a breakout box. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. PPI for serial port hand shakes? DATE: 13-Nov-06 21:17:45 HOST: sverige Nic, you're in way over my head. The only way I ever semi-directly altered the line on a pin was via jumpers on a breakout box. ..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. RSS Reader DATE: 13-Feb-06 23:43:21 HOST: sverige snownews is one option which is installed here [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. RSS Reader DATE: 13-Feb-06 23:43:21 HOST: sverige snownews is one option which is installed here TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. SSH Public Key Access DATE: 14-Jun-06 01:43:15 HOST: sverige and that .ssh/ is chmod 700 and authorized_keys is 600 and that the client is directed to use keys and to not use passwords [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. SSH Public Key Access DATE: 14-Jun-06 01:43:15 HOST: sverige and that .ssh/ is chmod 700 and authorized_keys is 600 and that the client is directed to use keys and to not use passwords ..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. basic router question DATE: 14-Sep-06 22:38:56 HOST: sverige In addition to the other two good advices, and despite the fact that Cat5 isn't really "gigantic" :), I wish to add .... It matters how the first router uses IPs within the apartment. It most probably has a dynamic external IP and you never have to know what that is unless you want to trace back to yourself. On the internal side, it certainly has a static IP, probably in the 192.168. range. Additionally, but certainly optionally, it optionally allocates dynamic IPs to those who connect to it. You need to discover just what it does by asking the person who set it up. If it uses, more specifically, offers, DHCP, over a limted range of the 192.168.x. block, then you have the option of using a static or dynamic IP configuration on your computers. If you're familiar and comfortable with dynamic, you may as well use it. Otherwise, you set up your computers to use static IPs in the same 192.168.x. block which do not fall in the range exported by the primary router's DHCP. In any event, you plug the wire from the apartment router into a regular LAN port in your switch, not the special WAN port, and ignore or disable the routing function all together. Configure your switch's LAN IP to be in the same 192.168.x block, again outside of the DHCP allocated range, with a netmask of 255.255.255.0 Now, that said, I don't know for certain that the apartment router will accept connections from static IPs while it is configured to offer DHCP. Enjoy. Please let me/us know if I got something wrong here :) --avo [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. basic router question DATE: 14-Sep-06 22:38:56 HOST: sverige In addition to the other two good advices, and despite the fact that Cat5 isn't really "gigantic" :), I wish to add .... It matters how the first router uses IPs within the apartment. It most probably has a dynamic external IP and you never have to know what that is unless you want to trace back to yourself. On the internal side, it certainly has a static IP, probably in the 192.168. range. Additionally, but certainly optionally, it optionally allocates dynamic IPs to those who connect to it. You need to discover just what it does by asking the person who set it up. If it uses, more specifically, offers, DHCP, over a limted range of the 192.168.x. block, then you have the option of using a static or dynamic IP configuration on your computers. If you're familiar and comfortable with dynamic, you may as well use it. Otherwise, you set up your computers to use static IPs in the same 192.168.x. block which do not fall in the range exported by the primary router's DHCP. In any event, you plug the wire from the apartment router into a regular LAN port in your switch, not the special WAN port, and ignore or disable the routing function all together. Configure your switch's LAN IP to be in the same 192.168.x block, again outside of the DHCP allocated range, with a netmask of 255.255.255.0 Now, that said, I don't know for certain that the apartment router will accept connections from static IPs while it is configured to offer DHCP. Enjoy. Please let me/us know if I got something wrong here :) --avo TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. basic router question DATE: 15-Sep-06 03:43:21 HOST: sverige and THEN after all that, you'll have to set up routing, and interface, on your local systems. Default route (gateway) being the internal IP of the apartment router, not the switch in your room. Since all computers, switches and routers in the apartment are in the same /24 netmask 255.255.255.0 for 192.168.x subnet then your interface setup (ifconfig or duzGUIthingy) will use that netmask with your IP and your system will route all IPs in that subnet thru that interface, to the switch in the room, which will find the correct port to the apartment router. Don't forget to carfully consider how you share directories and whether you run NetBIOS over your TCP/IP interface. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. basic router question DATE: 15-Sep-06 03:43:21 HOST: sverige and THEN after all that, you'll have to set up routing, and interface, on your local systems. Default route (gateway) being the internal IP of the apartment router, not the switch in your room. Since all computers, switches and routers in the apartment are in the same /24 netmask 255.255.255.0 for 192.168.x subnet then your interface setup (ifconfig or duzGUIthingy) will use that netmask with your IP and your system will route all IPs in that subnet thru that interface, to the switch in the room, which will find the correct port to the apartment router. Don't forget to carfully consider how you share directories and whether you run NetBIOS over your TCP/IP interface. TACKER: shinji (Robert Pendell) SUBJECT: .. basic router question DATE: 15-Sep-06 12:21:24 HOST: sverige @avoyager If you did option 2 then setting up the gateway won't be required. The switch will automatically forward the router ip as the gateway to the machine. Or at least it did when I setup those type of setups with some windows boxes. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: shinji (Robert Pendell) SUBJECT: .. basic router question DATE: 15-Sep-06 12:21:24 HOST: sverige @avoyager If you did option 2 then setting up the gateway won't be required. The switch will automatically forward the router ip as the gateway to the machine. Or at least it did when I setup those type of setups with some windows boxes. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. basic router question DATE: 15-Sep-06 14:37:39 HOST: sverige robert: Thanks. We'll see. clauandr: Also, if your router doesn't support port forwarding; see if it has a DMZ feature which would possibly forward all inbound connections to all ports on toward your computer. In any event, I urge extreme and redundant caution when you step out from behind, or bore through, the protection of The NAT :) [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. basic router question DATE: 15-Sep-06 14:37:39 HOST: sverige robert: Thanks. We'll see. clauandr: Also, if your router doesn't support port forwarding; see if it has a DMZ feature which would possibly forward all inbound connections to all ports on toward your computer. In any event, I urge extreme and redundant caution when you step out from behind, or bore through, the protection of The NAT :) ..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. I'd like to make my computer a server. DATE: 17-Aug-06 12:31:55 HOST: sverige If you don't have control over the firewall, you'll have a hard time serving the files yourself; if you do have control, you can open a hole to a port on your box. You can then maybe use a dynamic IP such as you.mdns.org offered at SDF's MetaARPA level, or subscribe to another. And run some kind of server on your box which your friends could connect to. If that doesn't appeal, you're next option is probably to move the files onto a third-party medium and distribute them from there. It could be a stack of DVD data discs or a Gmail account or an inexpensive VPS or any number of other options. Some of these answers will clarify in light of knowing the volume of data you wish to transfer, and the number and location (and relevant resources) of the recipients. We're here to help. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. I'd like to make my computer a server. DATE: 17-Aug-06 12:31:55 HOST: sverige If you don't have control over the firewall, you'll have a hard time serving the files yourself; if you do have control, you can open a hole to a port on your box. You can then maybe use a dynamic IP such as you.mdns.org offered at SDF's MetaARPA level, or subscribe to another. And run some kind of server on your box which your friends could connect to. If that doesn't appeal, you're next option is probably to move the files onto a third-party medium and distribute them from there. It could be a stack of DVD data discs or a Gmail account or an inexpensive VPS or any number of other options. Some of these answers will clarify in light of knowing the volume of data you wish to transfer, and the number and location (and relevant resources) of the recipients. We're here to help. .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. vpm help DATE: 17-Jul-06 21:00:52 HOST: sverige maybe just run mkvpm again. if you look in /vmail/.pw you should see your alias. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. vpm help DATE: 17-Jul-06 21:00:52 HOST: sverige maybe just run mkvpm again. if you look in /vmail/.pw you should see your alias. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. vpm help DATE: 18-Jul-06 18:32:16 HOST: sverige next idea ... rename the .pw file for reference, and start all over. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. vpm help DATE: 18-Jul-06 18:32:16 HOST: sverige next idea ... rename the .pw file for reference, and start all over. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. vpm help DATE: 18-Jul-06 23:00:06 HOST: sdf ok.... make sure that there are no .forward or .alias files in your $HOME which would be interfering, and then send mail to the aliases, and to their redirect targets, and see what is learned. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. vpm help DATE: 18-Jul-06 23:00:06 HOST: sdf ok.... make sure that there are no .forward or .alias files in your $HOME which would be interfering, and then send mail to the aliases, and to their redirect targets, and see what is learned. .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Yet Another Mkvpm Issue (YAMI) DATE: 18-Oct-06 12:00:32 HOST: sverige Curtis, That's an interesting use of the term "phished". Look in ~/vmail/.pw You should see a line for smtpauth= and a line for each alias. Run 'mkvpm' which will display Your VPM Configuration. See how they're the same? Make a backup of ~/vmail/.pw and edit it to suit, i.e. remove a wildcard line if that's how it's done (I've never used it). NOPE.! That's not how it's done at all; though I'll leave it here for you. Check for the presence of ~/vmail/.wildcard which may signal the wildcarding operation. Remove it if unwanted. For UNIX training event ... less `which mkvpm` Hopefully this was more helpful than confusing. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Yet Another Mkvpm Issue (YAMI) DATE: 18-Oct-06 12:00:32 HOST: sverige Curtis, That's an interesting use of the term "phished". Look in ~/vmail/.pw You should see a line for smtpauth= and a line for each alias. Run 'mkvpm' which will display Your VPM Configuration. See how they're the same? Make a backup of ~/vmail/.pw and edit it to suit, i.e. remove a wildcard line if that's how it's done (I've never used it). NOPE.! That's not how it's done at all; though I'll leave it here for you. Check for the presence of ~/vmail/.wildcard which may signal the wildcarding operation. Remove it if unwanted. For UNIX training event ... less `which mkvpm` Hopefully this was more helpful than confusing. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. file system full error... DATE: 18-Sep-06 04:03:12 HOST: sverige 'df' gives clue also Filesystem 512-blocks Used Avail Capacity Mounted on ol1:/arpa/gm 70010036 66509412 120 99% /arpa/gm [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. file system full error... DATE: 18-Sep-06 04:03:12 HOST: sverige 'df' gives clue also Filesystem 512-blocks Used Avail Capacity Mounted on ol1:/arpa/gm 70010036 66509412 120 99% /arpa/gm TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Using .htaccess files DATE: 19-Jan-06 19:17:32 HOST: sverige Last time I set this up, the .htpasswd file had to be 644 in the user web root. -- in case other locations don't work for you. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Using .htaccess files DATE: 19-Jan-06 19:17:32 HOST: sverige Last time I set this up, the .htpasswd file had to be 644 in the user web root. -- in case other locations don't work for you. ..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Backspace DATE: 20-Feb-06 18:43:05 HOST: sverige I'm thinking that the issue is in/with my terminal app., at least to some extent, since different ones behave differently ;-) [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Backspace DATE: 20-Feb-06 18:43:05 HOST: sverige I'm thinking that the issue is in/with my terminal app., at least to some extent, since different ones behave differently ;-) TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Backspace DATE: 21-Feb-06 22:54:19 HOST: sverige I solved my problem with this. I had "backspace sends delete" checked in a local instance of MindTerm 2.4.2 with vt100 TERM. Unchecking that option solved the problem nicely. (while running in SCREEN) Thanks for your tips and clues. They did and do help to freshen the thinking. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Backspace DATE: 21-Feb-06 22:54:19 HOST: sverige I solved my problem with this. I had "backspace sends delete" checked in a local instance of MindTerm 2.4.2 with vt100 TERM. Unchecking that option solved the problem nicely. (while running in SCREEN) Thanks for your tips and clues. They did and do help to freshen the thinking. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. spam sent to inexistent user@domain and greylist DATE: 20-Oct-06 13:43:03 HOST: sverige Maybe, .... the domain is registered by you, hosted (DNS) by SDF, with MX records indicating mail should come to SDF, .... , and .... the mail needs a place to go, eh? If so, try modifying the MX records in your DNS in order to prevent mail to that domain from being sent to SDF. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. spam sent to inexistent user@domain and greylist DATE: 20-Oct-06 13:43:03 HOST: sverige Maybe, .... the domain is registered by you, hosted (DNS) by SDF, with MX records indicating mail should come to SDF, .... , and .... the mail needs a place to go, eh? If so, try modifying the MX records in your DNS in order to prevent mail to that domain from being sent to SDF. .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. greylist help DATE: 21-Nov-06 20:51:46 HOST: sverige One question arises of what happens to listings in 'greylist -g' ? At some point in time they're going to just expire; and I don't know, and haven't measured, when. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. greylist help DATE: 21-Nov-06 20:51:46 HOST: sverige One question arises of what happens to listings in 'greylist -g' ? At some point in time they're going to just expire; and I don't know, and haven't measured, when. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. greylist help DATE: 21-Nov-06 21:24:55 HOST: sverige I don't know really. The theory behind greylisting is that spamware will not make a second attempt, so the greylisted system (tuple) will have to expire sometime, hopefully not before a resend is actually attempted. I have seen some mail servers not make a second resend attempt for several days, sad to say. Also, the greylist record may be removed after the mail has been resent and accepted; which wouldn't be good for a conversation because their second message would also be held up, until an auto-whitelisting (or manual whitelisting) took effect. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. greylist help DATE: 21-Nov-06 21:24:55 HOST: sverige I don't know really. The theory behind greylisting is that spamware will not make a second attempt, so the greylisted system (tuple) will have to expire sometime, hopefully not before a resend is actually attempted. I have seen some mail servers not make a second resend attempt for several days, sad to say. Also, the greylist record may be removed after the mail has been resent and accepted; which wouldn't be good for a conversation because their second message would also be held up, until an auto-whitelisting (or manual whitelisting) took effect. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. greylist help DATE: 21-Nov-06 21:46:35 HOST: sverige Is the sender in the greylist -wv ? whitelist? That'd be a reasonable place for the listing to go after the greylist -g waitlist. From there it'd expire after some interval. (and conversations would be easier). I have a test started now. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. greylist help DATE: 21-Nov-06 21:46:35 HOST: sverige Is the sender in the greylist -wv ? whitelist? That'd be a reasonable place for the listing to go after the greylist -g waitlist. From there it'd expire after some interval. (and conversations would be easier). I have a test started now. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. greylist help DATE: 21-Nov-06 22:03:29 HOST: sverige test cancelled because nothing is appearing in 'greylist -gv' prior to subsequent delivery success, or in 'greylist -wv' after. Those tools may not be working properly at present. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. greylist help DATE: 21-Nov-06 22:03:29 HOST: sverige test cancelled because nothing is appearing in 'greylist -gv' prior to subsequent delivery success, or in 'greylist -wv' after. Those tools may not be working properly at present. TACKER: mrbigjas (James Andrews) SUBJECT: .. greylist help DATE: 22-Nov-06 03:50:38 HOST: sverige well anyway, thanks, avoyager. i still think that once the manual whitelists (or automatic whitelists based on sent mail or something) are implemented, it's a pretty good system for the moment--until the spammers catch up to it, at which folks will have to figure out something else... [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: mrbigjas (James Andrews) SUBJECT: .. greylist help DATE: 22-Nov-06 03:50:38 HOST: sverige well anyway, thanks, avoyager. i still think that once the manual whitelists (or automatic whitelists based on sent mail or something) are implemented, it's a pretty good system for the moment--until the spammers catch up to it, at which folks will have to figure out something else... TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Removing Misnamed Files DATE: 22-May-06 12:38:54 HOST: sverige or ... rm "enclose the filename in quotes" [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Removing Misnamed Files DATE: 22-May-06 12:38:54 HOST: sverige or ... rm "enclose the filename in quotes" .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Using old DNS record for a website DATE: 22-Nov-06 16:42:45 HOST: sverige I think the [/etc/]HOSTS file is supposed to do this well, once you get your resolver to look at it before going to DNS. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Using old DNS record for a website DATE: 22-Nov-06 16:42:45 HOST: sverige I think the [/etc/]HOSTS file is supposed to do this well, once you get your resolver to look at it before going to DNS. .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. keeping dust out of computers? DATE: 24-Dec-05 21:47:11 HOST: sverige I'm pretty sure that my Enermax is blowing air out of the case. It's about 4 yrs old by now. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. keeping dust out of computers? DATE: 24-Dec-05 21:47:11 HOST: sverige I'm pretty sure that my Enermax is blowing air out of the case. It's about 4 yrs old by now. .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Creating a gpg-Key. How can I get a lot of random bytes? DATE: 24-Jun-06 13:01:01 HOST: sverige search the 2006 bboard archives for 'entropy'. We have handled this to some degree, if not conclusively. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Creating a gpg-Key. How can I get a lot of random bytes? DATE: 24-Jun-06 13:01:01 HOST: sverige search the 2006 bboard archives for 'entropy'. We have handled this to some degree, if not conclusively. TACKER: mariok (Mario Koppensteiner) SUBJECT: .. Creating a gpg-Key. How can I get a lot of random bytes? DATE: 24-Jun-06 20:53:54 HOST: sdf Hello avoyager I have searched for the Tread in the Archiv but I haven't found it. Which Tread do you mean exactly? (Thread owner, Date of post etc...) Thanks and best regards. mariok [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: mariok (Mario Koppensteiner) SUBJECT: .. Creating a gpg-Key. How can I get a lot of random bytes? DATE: 24-Jun-06 20:53:54 HOST: sdf Hello avoyager I have searched for the Tread in the Archiv but I haven't found it. Which Tread do you mean exactly? (Thread owner, Date of post etc...) Thanks and best regards. mariok TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Creating a gpg-Key. How can I get a lot of random bytes? DATE: 24-Jun-06 21:49:49 HOST: sverige Alas, I cannot find it either. IIRC (which obviously doesn't always work:), I got gpg --gen-key to work on SDF (sverige/Meta-ARPA) after letting it run a very long time; like .... put it in the background, and do something else for a few hours. I think it seemed a matter of process priority, not lack of entropy or entropy generating activity, but dunno for sure. Just try it :) overnight perhaps. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Creating a gpg-Key. How can I get a lot of random bytes? DATE: 24-Jun-06 21:49:49 HOST: sverige Alas, I cannot find it either. IIRC (which obviously doesn't always work:), I got gpg --gen-key to work on SDF (sverige/Meta-ARPA) after letting it run a very long time; like .... put it in the background, and do something else for a few hours. I think it seemed a matter of process priority, not lack of entropy or entropy generating activity, but dunno for sure. Just try it :) overnight perhaps. TACKER: mariok (Mario Koppensteiner) SUBJECT: .. Creating a gpg-Key. How can I get a lot of random bytes? DATE: 25-Jun-06 11:08:16 HOST: ukato Hello avoyager I will try this. But which file does gpg need to get random data (for example by moving the mouse or typing on the keyboard or by using the soundcard). Perhaps he needs the /proc/interrupts file, but which file is used for this on NetBSD? Thanks and best regards mariok [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: mariok (Mario Koppensteiner) SUBJECT: .. Creating a gpg-Key. How can I get a lot of random bytes? DATE: 25-Jun-06 11:08:16 HOST: ukato Hello avoyager I will try this. But which file does gpg need to get random data (for example by moving the mouse or typing on the keyboard or by using the soundcard). Perhaps he needs the /proc/interrupts file, but which file is used for this on NetBSD? Thanks and best regards mariok TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Creating a gpg-Key. How can I get a lot of random bytes? DATE: 25-Jun-06 14:10:47 HOST: sverige Mario, It seems to me that moving your mouse or keyboard will have no effect whatsoever since it's a remote system; and that all it needs is cpu activity or memory use or buss traffic or something of which it already has ample. I'll start one up and see what happens. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Creating a gpg-Key. How can I get a lot of random bytes? DATE: 25-Jun-06 14:10:47 HOST: sverige Mario, It seems to me that moving your mouse or keyboard will have no effect whatsoever since it's a remote system; and that all it needs is cpu activity or memory use or buss traffic or something of which it already has ample. I'll start one up and see what happens. TACKER: mariok (Mario Koppensteiner) SUBJECT: .. Creating a gpg-Key. How can I get a lot of random bytes? DATE: 25-Jun-06 14:44:06 HOST: norge Hello avoyager I know that. Moving my mouse or typing on my keyboard has no effect. If this is what gpg needs, than somebody must drive to norge or whatever host and connect there a keyboard (and I'm sure there isn't one, because the sdf-machines are managed remote) and type on it. I has started one gpg-process too. I'll see what hapen... . You say it should finish (running over a night or some hours)? If so, gpg gets the random data (which is needed to complete the key-generation), so gpg must have a file/device from that he could get the random data. Do you use gpg within mutt? I'd like to do that, and so I hope I can found here (in bboard) some Threads that handle that too. Thanks a lot. Best regards mariok [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: mariok (Mario Koppensteiner) SUBJECT: .. Creating a gpg-Key. How can I get a lot of random bytes? DATE: 25-Jun-06 14:44:06 HOST: norge Hello avoyager I know that. Moving my mouse or typing on my keyboard has no effect. If this is what gpg needs, than somebody must drive to norge or whatever host and connect there a keyboard (and I'm sure there isn't one, because the sdf-machines are managed remote) and type on it. I has started one gpg-process too. I'll see what hapen... . You say it should finish (running over a night or some hours)? If so, gpg gets the random data (which is needed to complete the key-generation), so gpg must have a file/device from that he could get the random data. Do you use gpg within mutt? I'd like to do that, and so I hope I can found here (in bboard) some Threads that handle that too. Thanks a lot. Best regards mariok TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Creating a gpg-Key. How can I get a lot of random bytes? DATE: 25-Jun-06 17:18:27 HOST: sverige Well it's running three hours now, one whole disappointing World Cup match, without completing. IIRC (same caveats :) I tried in the past doing things to help it advance, to no avail. All other systems I've tried complete the process within a minute or two at the outside. We both now test whether it completes here at all. I trust the next match will be better played and more entertaining. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Creating a gpg-Key. How can I get a lot of random bytes? DATE: 25-Jun-06 17:18:27 HOST: sverige Well it's running three hours now, one whole disappointing World Cup match, without completing. IIRC (same caveats :) I tried in the past doing things to help it advance, to no avail. All other systems I've tried complete the process within a minute or two at the outside. We both now test whether it completes here at all. I trust the next match will be better played and more entertaining. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Creating a gpg-Key. How can I get a lot of random bytes? DATE: 25-Jun-06 17:28:30 HOST: sverige There's a GPG thread in the MAIL archive .... MAIL.28-Apr-06 [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Creating a gpg-Key. How can I get a lot of random bytes? DATE: 25-Jun-06 17:28:30 HOST: sverige There's a GPG thread in the MAIL archive .... MAIL.28-Apr-06 TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Creating a gpg-Key. How can I get a lot of random bytes? DATE: 25-Jun-06 20:31:07 HOST: sverige My only work-around at this time is patience. After something less than 6 hours I did get a key pair. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Creating a gpg-Key. How can I get a lot of random bytes? DATE: 25-Jun-06 20:31:07 HOST: sverige My only work-around at this time is patience. After something less than 6 hours I did get a key pair. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Creating a gpg-Key. How can I get a lot of random bytes? DATE: 25-Jun-06 21:28:44 HOST: sverige Thanks, Robert. I affirm that tar xf .... in /temp/... created enough entropy to bring the keymaking to a rapid conclusion. I didn't even have to start configure :) Well done! [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Creating a gpg-Key. How can I get a lot of random bytes? DATE: 25-Jun-06 21:28:44 HOST: sverige Thanks, Robert. I affirm that tar xf .... in /temp/... created enough entropy to bring the keymaking to a rapid conclusion. I didn't even have to start configure :) Well done! .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Lost Email DATE: 25-Oct-06 16:57:05 HOST: sverige David, "I sent these emails from citigroup.com ..." OK. "so I am thinking that their server probably is working correctly." No. The conclusion does not follow. In fact, the evidence (that one mail was not yet resent) is that their mail servers are NOT working correctly, and are still holding one of your mails in their queue. On the other hand, there are a great many things which can, and do, go wrong with email. Greylisting is not one of them. It does not lose or discard mail. It is just one of several already noted legitimate and common reasons why receiving servers tell sending servers to "try again later". But if you think that wearing a hat will keep the volcano from erupting, go for it. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Lost Email DATE: 25-Oct-06 16:57:05 HOST: sverige David, "I sent these emails from citigroup.com ..." OK. "so I am thinking that their server probably is working correctly." No. The conclusion does not follow. In fact, the evidence (that one mail was not yet resent) is that their mail servers are NOT working correctly, and are still holding one of your mails in their queue. On the other hand, there are a great many things which can, and do, go wrong with email. Greylisting is not one of them. It does not lose or discard mail. It is just one of several already noted legitimate and common reasons why receiving servers tell sending servers to "try again later". But if you think that wearing a hat will keep the volcano from erupting, go for it. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. can't get script working DATE: 25-Sep-06 12:50:16 HOST: sverige Is your script attempting to open privileged port or otherwise do something for which its user or you are unauthorized? [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. can't get script working DATE: 25-Sep-06 12:50:16 HOST: sverige Is your script attempting to open privileged port or otherwise do something for which its user or you are unauthorized? .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. CTRL-H in certain programs DATE: 28-Apr-06 12:34:17 HOST: sverige also, if your term program has settings such as "backspace sends delete" or "delete sends backspace" try toggling them. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. CTRL-H in certain programs DATE: 28-Apr-06 12:34:17 HOST: sverige also, if your term program has settings such as "backspace sends delete" or "delete sends backspace" try toggling them. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. ssh timeout DATE: 28-Apr-06 12:41:00 HOST: sverige For flakey connections, I disable the term's keepalive function, because it does/could/might terminate the connection if it looks for a pong back, at the application level. After that, your tcp configuration controls when is timeout for its connections, at the transport level. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. ssh timeout DATE: 28-Apr-06 12:41:00 HOST: sverige For flakey connections, I disable the term's keepalive function, because it does/could/might terminate the connection if it looks for a pong back, at the application level. After that, your tcp configuration controls when is timeout for its connections, at the transport level. .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. anyone else getting spam bounces when sending to SDF ? DATE: 02-Oct-06 01:39:30 HOST: sverige Hi folks. Be sure to read the recent threads on Greylisting in MAIL and REQUESTS. In short, it works like this. All incoming mail delivery attempts are told to "try again later; can't take delivery now". That in itself is not new; and all email systems know to expect those responses any time from any place. Spam mail generally doesn't bother with a second delivery attempt. That's the positive benefit of Greylisting. Legitimate mail will try again, after a delay determined by them, they will (or should) attempt delivery again. When they do (if it is after the period set by SDF, between 30 and 120 minutes when I measured it) SDF will whitelist them so that next time they won't be delayed. Note that it is not just the sender however. The greylisting works with what SMJ refers to as "tuples" which are a single record combination of sender_IP(SMTP client), envelope_from(MAIL FROM:), and envelope_to(RCPT TO:). Note also that the whitelisting may expire if not used again in some period of time. Also, the SDF implementation of Greylisting is new, and a work in progress. Accordingly, .... "don't panic". [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. anyone else getting spam bounces when sending to SDF ? DATE: 02-Oct-06 01:39:30 HOST: sverige Hi folks. Be sure to read the recent threads on Greylisting in MAIL and REQUESTS. In short, it works like this. All incoming mail delivery attempts are told to "try again later; can't take delivery now". That in itself is not new; and all email systems know to expect those responses any time from any place. Spam mail generally doesn't bother with a second delivery attempt. That's the positive benefit of Greylisting. Legitimate mail will try again, after a delay determined by them, they will (or should) attempt delivery again. When they do (if it is after the period set by SDF, between 30 and 120 minutes when I measured it) SDF will whitelist them so that next time they won't be delayed. Note that it is not just the sender however. The greylisting works with what SMJ refers to as "tuples" which are a single record combination of sender_IP(SMTP client), envelope_from(MAIL FROM:), and envelope_to(RCPT TO:). Note also that the whitelisting may expire if not used again in some period of time. Also, the SDF implementation of Greylisting is new, and a work in progress. Accordingly, .... "don't panic". .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. What's avalable on SDF for POP3 accounts? DATE: 07-Sep-06 01:52:10 HOST: sverige I've been quite happy with pine probably since before mutt was created. Here's some working examples of using it with POP accounts, because that's what I think you requested. inbox-path={127.0.0.1:110/pop3/user=postmaster}INBOX incoming-folders=name1 "#move {lo4:110/pop3/user=user1}INBOX box1", name2 "#move {lo:210/pop3/notls/user=user2}INBOX box2", pop3 "#move {rh:995/pop3/ssl/user=user3}INBOX box3", imap4 "#move {rh:993/ssl/user=user4}INBOX box4" lo is localhost rh is a remote host :110 is a local POP3 server :210 is a tunnel to SDF's VPM server (POP3 only; no IMAP) :995 is a POP using SSL :993 is an IMAP using SSL name1 is a lable in the interface user1 is the login ID required by the server (sometimes with @domain) box1 is the name of the local storage file The trick was to use incoming-folders The hard part is getting the ssl/tls/notls all set up correctly Pine's built-in help system is quite good. --hth [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. What's avalable on SDF for POP3 accounts? DATE: 07-Sep-06 01:52:10 HOST: sverige I've been quite happy with pine probably since before mutt was created. Here's some working examples of using it with POP accounts, because that's what I think you requested. inbox-path={127.0.0.1:110/pop3/user=postmaster}INBOX incoming-folders=name1 "#move {lo4:110/pop3/user=user1}INBOX box1", name2 "#move {lo:210/pop3/notls/user=user2}INBOX box2", pop3 "#move {rh:995/pop3/ssl/user=user3}INBOX box3", imap4 "#move {rh:993/ssl/user=user4}INBOX box4" lo is localhost rh is a remote host :110 is a local POP3 server :210 is a tunnel to SDF's VPM server (POP3 only; no IMAP) :995 is a POP using SSL :993 is an IMAP using SSL name1 is a lable in the interface user1 is the login ID required by the server (sometimes with @domain) box1 is the name of the local storage file The trick was to use incoming-folders The hard part is getting the ssl/tls/notls all set up correctly Pine's built-in help system is quite good. --hth .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. cannot send mail to comcast DATE: 01-Apr-06 05:01:06 HOST: sverige AOL also blocks on no PTR http://postmaster.aol.com/guidelines/standards.html "AOL's mail servers will reject connections from any IP address that does not have reverse DNS (a PTR record)." 220-rly-xa01.mx.aol.com ESMTP mail_relay_in-xa1.10; Tue, 15 Mar 200509:38:53 -05 00 220-America Online (AOL) and its affiliated companies do not 220- authorize the use of its proprietary computers and computer 220- networks to accept, transmit, or distribute unsolicited bulk 220- e-mail sent from the internet. Effective immediately: AOL 220- may no longer accept connections from IP addresses which 220 have no reverse-DNS (PTR record) assigned. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. cannot send mail to comcast DATE: 01-Apr-06 05:01:06 HOST: sverige AOL also blocks on no PTR http://postmaster.aol.com/guidelines/standards.html "AOL's mail servers will reject connections from any IP address that does not have reverse DNS (a PTR record)." 220-rly-xa01.mx.aol.com ESMTP mail_relay_in-xa1.10; Tue, 15 Mar 200509:38:53 -05 00 220-America Online (AOL) and its affiliated companies do not 220- authorize the use of its proprietary computers and computer 220- networks to accept, transmit, or distribute unsolicited bulk 220- e-mail sent from the internet. Effective immediately: AOL 220- may no longer accept connections from IP addresses which 220 have no reverse-DNS (PTR record) assigned. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. cannot send mail to comcast DATE: 01-Apr-06 13:28:16 HOST: sverige It's time I suppose to move this discussion to the proper REQUESTS board before patience wears thin and panic sets in. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. cannot send mail to comcast DATE: 01-Apr-06 13:28:16 HOST: sverige It's time I suppose to move this discussion to the proper REQUESTS board before patience wears thin and panic sets in. ........TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Foreign Media Reaction DATE: 11-Dec-05 12:14:30 HOST: sverige This might be a good project with which to learn the text tools (sed, awk, etc.) by creating indices for these documents; one in flat text for maybe grepping; another in CSV for database import. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Foreign Media Reaction DATE: 11-Dec-05 12:14:30 HOST: sverige This might be a good project with which to learn the text tools (sed, awk, etc.) by creating indices for these documents; one in flat text for maybe grepping; another in CSV for database import. ....TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Connection sharing on Ubuntu DATE: 13-Jul-06 03:19:34 HOST: sverige I don't know if iptables provides NAT or not, but the firewall gateway provided by fx.dk certainly does. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Connection sharing on Ubuntu DATE: 13-Jul-06 03:19:34 HOST: sverige I don't know if iptables provides NAT or not, but the firewall gateway provided by fx.dk certainly does. ..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Web server on Linux DATE: 05-Mar-06 04:53:44 HOST: sverige Since/if you're the only one for sshd is installed, you could configure it to listen on some obscure port other than the default .... ? [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Web server on Linux DATE: 05-Mar-06 04:53:44 HOST: sverige Since/if you're the only one for sshd is installed, you could configure it to listen on some obscure port other than the default .... ? TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Web server on Linux DATE: 15-Jan-06 17:52:59 HOST: sverige SDF provides MDNS service (as an alternative to dyndns) at the worthy adn valuable MetaARPA membership level. Almost any registrar can register .org domain names. I've had nothing but positive experience with godaddy for several years now. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Web server on Linux DATE: 15-Jan-06 17:52:59 HOST: sverige SDF provides MDNS service (as an alternative to dyndns) at the worthy adn valuable MetaARPA membership level. Almost any registrar can register .org domain names. I've had nothing but positive experience with godaddy for several years now. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Console configuration DATE: 15-Jul-06 16:12:37 HOST: sverige Thank you, Phil. For now, not compiling kernel, I'm happy with using vga=771 during boot; and have decided that whatever character generator is active is sufficient. and I'll see what I come across for color management Appreciative, avo [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Console configuration DATE: 15-Jul-06 16:12:37 HOST: sverige Thank you, Phil. For now, not compiling kernel, I'm happy with using vga=771 during boot; and have decided that whatever character generator is active is sufficient. and I'll see what I come across for color management Appreciative, avo ..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Linux screensaver DATE: 23-Dec-05 17:48:07 HOST: sverige There is however a replacement/continuation product from ecomstation.com [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Linux screensaver DATE: 23-Dec-05 17:48:07 HOST: sverige There is however a replacement/continuation product from ecomstation.com ......TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. not too hard trig problem DATE: 14-Apr-06 12:15:22 HOST: sverige Hello. One "nautical mile" is equivalent to one minute of arc measured along the earth's equator. Obviously as your parallels of latitude, along which you measure longitude, approach the poles, the minutes of arc become shorter. In a true sphere, which the earth is not, all minutes of latitude would be one nautical mile in length because all meridions of longitude are great circles, as is the equator. In the case of the earth, its [oblate?] spheroidal shape has a polar diameter which is smaller than its equatorial diameter. Therefore distances along one minute of arc decrease with departure from the equator, and in any event are never as long as one nautucal mile. In spheres, and other spheroidal forms, "parallels of latitude" are by definition parallel. The meridions, constructed as great circles through the poles, experience "convergence of meridians" as they approach the poles, and since they intersect, they cannot be parallel. Nonetheless, the intersection of of any parallel of latitude with any converging meridian is always 90 degrees of spherical angle, for true spheres and for oblate spheres such as earth. At any point on earth, a direction of due east is exactly perpendicular to a direction of due north. Reference please Nathaniel Bowditch or any other text on "spherical trigonometry". I hope this contributes favorably and accurately to your question, but assurances are not mine to offer. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. not too hard trig problem DATE: 14-Apr-06 12:15:22 HOST: sverige Hello. One "nautical mile" is equivalent to one minute of arc measured along the earth's equator. Obviously as your parallels of latitude, along which you measure longitude, approach the poles, the minutes of arc become shorter. In a true sphere, which the earth is not, all minutes of latitude would be one nautical mile in length because all meridions of longitude are great circles, as is the equator. In the case of the earth, its [oblate?] spheroidal shape has a polar diameter which is smaller than its equatorial diameter. Therefore distances along one minute of arc decrease with departure from the equator, and in any event are never as long as one nautucal mile. In spheres, and other spheroidal forms, "parallels of latitude" are by definition parallel. The meridions, constructed as great circles through the poles, experience "convergence of meridians" as they approach the poles, and since they intersect, they cannot be parallel. Nonetheless, the intersection of of any parallel of latitude with any converging meridian is always 90 degrees of spherical angle, for true spheres and for oblate spheres such as earth. At any point on earth, a direction of due east is exactly perpendicular to a direction of due north. Reference please Nathaniel Bowditch or any other text on "spherical trigonometry". I hope this contributes favorably and accurately to your question, but assurances are not mine to offer. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. not too hard trig problem DATE: 14-Apr-06 12:37:50 HOST: sverige also .... there are more than two "north" points (directions) at any given time. Fortunately for you, one of them is the intersection of meridians :) [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. not too hard trig problem DATE: 14-Apr-06 12:37:50 HOST: sverige also .... there are more than two "north" points (directions) at any given time. Fortunately for you, one of them is the intersection of meridians :) TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. not too hard trig problem DATE: 15-Apr-06 00:45:43 HOST: sverige >> What is the difference in longitude between this point and the points d >> miles away along the line perpendicular to the north/south line? > And by this, what I mean is the distance along the great circle path on > the globe, i.e. distance as we would normally measure it travelling along > the earth's surface. Now you've confused yourself :) "the line perpendicular to the north/south line" is a line running east/west. It is by definition and completely without ambiguity. "the great cirlce path" is as it says a great circle, which differs significantly from the "rhumb line" only in distances of several thousand miles. The great circle path, by definition, is only perpendicular to a N-S line (meridian of longitude), if on the equator, and only on the equator, or on a pole, in which case the perpendicular line runs North or South, exactly so :) There really is no unambiguous definition for the "distance as we would normally measure it travelling along the earth's surface". [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. not too hard trig problem DATE: 15-Apr-06 00:45:43 HOST: sverige >> What is the difference in longitude between this point and the points d >> miles away along the line perpendicular to the north/south line? > And by this, what I mean is the distance along the great circle path on > the globe, i.e. distance as we would normally measure it travelling along > the earth's surface. Now you've confused yourself :) "the line perpendicular to the north/south line" is a line running east/west. It is by definition and completely without ambiguity. "the great cirlce path" is as it says a great circle, which differs significantly from the "rhumb line" only in distances of several thousand miles. The great circle path, by definition, is only perpendicular to a N-S line (meridian of longitude), if on the equator, and only on the equator, or on a pole, in which case the perpendicular line runs North or South, exactly so :) There really is no unambiguous definition for the "distance as we would normally measure it travelling along the earth's surface". TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. not too hard trig problem DATE: 15-Apr-06 01:00:52 HOST: sverige > d miles away along the line perpendicular to the north/south line? and > d miles directly east/west? > are the same thing. >> It's any easy mistake to make but they are not. Sorry. Forget about the sphere for a moment. First, the circle is divided into 360 integral degrees. N-S is assigned to one, arbitrary for this purpose, axis. E-W is assigned to the axis perpendicular to the N-S axis. The angle subtended between a line running north and a line running east will always be 90 degrees by definition. Accept that, and then reconsider the sphere. Technically, there are no straight two dimensional lines on the surface of a sphere. Lines between two points on the surface of a sphere are "arcs"; they are not "lines". They may be great circle arcs, or not. While spherical surfaces have arcs and not lines, they still do have angles measurable between two intersecting arcs. (and the planes formed by those arcs) As I showed in my most recent post here, the great circle route to a point due east is not perpendicular to due north at the starting point. In fact, along a great circle course, your compass bearing, whether or not adjusted for geodetic or "true" or any other "north", will constantly change! In the northern hemisphere, a great circle course to a point toward the east on the same latitude, and less than 180 degrees of longitude away, will begin along an azimuth or bearing running north of east, and end on a bearing running south of east. Only at the midpoint does the great circle course point due east. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. not too hard trig problem DATE: 15-Apr-06 01:00:52 HOST: sverige > d miles away along the line perpendicular to the north/south line? and > d miles directly east/west? > are the same thing. >> It's any easy mistake to make but they are not. Sorry. Forget about the sphere for a moment. First, the circle is divided into 360 integral degrees. N-S is assigned to one, arbitrary for this purpose, axis. E-W is assigned to the axis perpendicular to the N-S axis. The angle subtended between a line running north and a line running east will always be 90 degrees by definition. Accept that, and then reconsider the sphere. Technically, there are no straight two dimensional lines on the surface of a sphere. Lines between two points on the surface of a sphere are "arcs"; they are not "lines". They may be great circle arcs, or not. While spherical surfaces have arcs and not lines, they still do have angles measurable between two intersecting arcs. (and the planes formed by those arcs) As I showed in my most recent post here, the great circle route to a point due east is not perpendicular to due north at the starting point. In fact, along a great circle course, your compass bearing, whether or not adjusted for geodetic or "true" or any other "north", will constantly change! In the northern hemisphere, a great circle course to a point toward the east on the same latitude, and less than 180 degrees of longitude away, will begin along an azimuth or bearing running north of east, and end on a bearing running south of east. Only at the midpoint does the great circle course point due east. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. not too hard trig problem DATE: 15-Apr-06 01:16:14 HOST: sverige > You might think that "d miles away along the line perpendicular to the north/south line" means along a latitude line, but it doesn't. It's along a "Great Circle Arc," which isn't the same as a latitude line. Is it clear to you yet that this statement is wrong? The Great Circle Arc is NOT perpendicular to the meridian of longitude (due North-South line). It is NOT. (except at the mid-point as explained in my most recent post here) [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. not too hard trig problem DATE: 15-Apr-06 01:16:14 HOST: sverige > You might think that "d miles away along the line perpendicular to the north/south line" means along a latitude line, but it doesn't. It's along a "Great Circle Arc," which isn't the same as a latitude line. Is it clear to you yet that this statement is wrong? The Great Circle Arc is NOT perpendicular to the meridian of longitude (due North-South line). It is NOT. (except at the mid-point as explained in my most recent post here) TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. not too hard trig problem DATE: 15-Apr-06 01:21:15 HOST: sverige "If you are at, say, 40 deg N and face East, and begin walking perfectly straight (without turning left or right), you will begin to walk more and more to the South. Until you cross the equator," And if you start walking North, or South, which way do you veer? Your statements are based upon a completely flawed fundamental understanding of simple definition of East. Is it fixed yet? or is additional remediation required? [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. not too hard trig problem DATE: 15-Apr-06 01:21:15 HOST: sverige "If you are at, say, 40 deg N and face East, and begin walking perfectly straight (without turning left or right), you will begin to walk more and more to the South. Until you cross the equator," And if you start walking North, or South, which way do you veer? Your statements are based upon a completely flawed fundamental understanding of simple definition of East. Is it fixed yet? or is additional remediation required? TACKER: brandon (Brandon Hall) SUBJECT: .. not too hard trig problem DATE: 15-Apr-06 05:25:38 HOST: sverige > Your statements are based upon a completely flawed fundamental > understanding of simple definition of East. Is it fixed yet? or is > additional remediation required? No need for condescension, Avoyager. As has been pointed out multiple times now on this thread, the second and third parts of the original problem are asking two different things: o The second part of the problem defines the length of a great circle arc and asks for the difference in longitude between the endpoints of this arc, expressed in terms of the arc length (d) and possibly the latitude and longitude of the starting point. o The third part defines the length of an equi-latitudinal arc and asks for the difference in longitude between the endpoints of this arc, also expressed in terms of its arc length (d) and possibly the latitude and longitude of the starting point. These two arcs---the great circle arc and the equi-latitudinal arc---as defined in the original problem have the same length and share a common starting point. They are also "true" arcs in the sense of being pieces of real circles (and not some other kind of curvy shape). The tangents to these two arcs at their starting point are identical and point east/west. These tangents are perpendicular to the tangent to the north-south meridian which passes through the same starting point. (Such perpendicularity is no accident: it is properly how we define "east" and "west".) (Another aside: why would we care about the great circle arc that heads east/west away from our starting point? Because this is in fact a better notion of distance, the one we tend to use every day: a great circle arc represents the shortest geodesic path between its endpoints, much like a straight line represents the shortest path between its endpoints in Euclidean space.) Now, having beaten the language and semantics to death, it would be really great to get back to actual math and tackle the original problem. Part 1 is the easiest, followed by part 3 and then part 2. I'm happy to give hints. (If you find the original wording of the problem confusing or ambiguous, please feel free to be constructive and post a concise and crisp rewording of the problem, I'd be grateful.) [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: brandon (Brandon Hall) SUBJECT: .. not too hard trig problem DATE: 15-Apr-06 05:25:38 HOST: sverige > Your statements are based upon a completely flawed fundamental > understanding of simple definition of East. Is it fixed yet? or is > additional remediation required? No need for condescension, Avoyager. As has been pointed out multiple times now on this thread, the second and third parts of the original problem are asking two different things: o The second part of the problem defines the length of a great circle arc and asks for the difference in longitude between the endpoints of this arc, expressed in terms of the arc length (d) and possibly the latitude and longitude of the starting point. o The third part defines the length of an equi-latitudinal arc and asks for the difference in longitude between the endpoints of this arc, also expressed in terms of its arc length (d) and possibly the latitude and longitude of the starting point. These two arcs---the great circle arc and the equi-latitudinal arc---as defined in the original problem have the same length and share a common starting point. They are also "true" arcs in the sense of being pieces of real circles (and not some other kind of curvy shape). The tangents to these two arcs at their starting point are identical and point east/west. These tangents are perpendicular to the tangent to the north-south meridian which passes through the same starting point. (Such perpendicularity is no accident: it is properly how we define "east" and "west".) (Another aside: why would we care about the great circle arc that heads east/west away from our starting point? Because this is in fact a better notion of distance, the one we tend to use every day: a great circle arc represents the shortest geodesic path between its endpoints, much like a straight line represents the shortest path between its endpoints in Euclidean space.) Now, having beaten the language and semantics to death, it would be really great to get back to actual math and tackle the original problem. Part 1 is the easiest, followed by part 3 and then part 2. I'm happy to give hints. (If you find the original wording of the problem confusing or ambiguous, please feel free to be constructive and post a concise and crisp rewording of the problem, I'd be grateful.) TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. not too hard trig problem DATE: 15-Apr-06 13:17:09 HOST: sverige No condescension intended, Brandon. You posed the question; and since I'm a geodesist I'm qualified to respond to it. If you wish to persist in sustaining the false notion that the starting course of a great circle arc toward a destination of equal latitude is due East (perpendicular to the N-S meridian as you acknowledge), then please consider the case for a destination of equal latitude which AT (or near) 180 degrees longitude distant. Wouldn't then the great circle course be due North? [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. not too hard trig problem DATE: 15-Apr-06 13:17:09 HOST: sverige No condescension intended, Brandon. You posed the question; and since I'm a geodesist I'm qualified to respond to it. If you wish to persist in sustaining the false notion that the starting course of a great circle arc toward a destination of equal latitude is due East (perpendicular to the N-S meridian as you acknowledge), then please consider the case for a destination of equal latitude which AT (or near) 180 degrees longitude distant. Wouldn't then the great circle course be due North? TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. not too hard trig problem DATE: 15-Apr-06 19:56:17 HOST: sverige The original question didn't mention great circle arc at all. Nonetheless, I've contributed my all toward going out of my way to assist with your troubles by answering your questions, as you requested. Have a balloon. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. not too hard trig problem DATE: 15-Apr-06 19:56:17 HOST: sverige The original question didn't mention great circle arc at all. Nonetheless, I've contributed my all toward going out of my way to assist with your troubles by answering your questions, as you requested. Have a balloon. TACKER: jlromano () SUBJECT: .. not too hard trig problem DATE: 15-Apr-06 22:17:34 HOST: norge avoyager (Avo Yager) wrote: > > The Great Circle Arc is NOT perpendicular to the meridian of longitude > (due North-South line). It is NOT. (except at the mid-point as explained > in my most recent post here) I agree with you. In fact, the mid-point you explained in a recent post was exactly the point I was referring to: Any great-circle arc that is not the equator (and not a line of longitude itself) will be perpendicular to a line of longitude at exactly two points. I thought I mentioned that in one of my earlier posts. (My apologies if I didn't, but I thought my posts were long enough.) -- Jean-Luc [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: jlromano () SUBJECT: .. not too hard trig problem DATE: 15-Apr-06 22:17:34 HOST: norge avoyager (Avo Yager) wrote: > > The Great Circle Arc is NOT perpendicular to the meridian of longitude > (due North-South line). It is NOT. (except at the mid-point as explained > in my most recent post here) I agree with you. In fact, the mid-point you explained in a recent post was exactly the point I was referring to: Any great-circle arc that is not the equator (and not a line of longitude itself) will be perpendicular to a line of longitude at exactly two points. I thought I mentioned that in one of my earlier posts. (My apologies if I didn't, but I thought my posts were long enough.) -- Jean-Luc ..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. transfer quotas DATE: 12-Aug-06 15:13:33 HOST: sverige Regarding the contrasting of MOTD with regular cheap hosting, it is apropos to keep in mind that almost no regular webhosting, and certainly not the cheap stuff, comes with shell access. By my last review, shells are approx. $10/mo and cheap hosting in the $6-10 range. Since Meta-ARPA is only $3/mo, this discussion should presumably generate some new interest in that level of existing SDF support opportunities. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. transfer quotas DATE: 12-Aug-06 15:13:33 HOST: sverige Regarding the contrasting of MOTD with regular cheap hosting, it is apropos to keep in mind that almost no regular webhosting, and certainly not the cheap stuff, comes with shell access. By my last review, shells are approx. $10/mo and cheap hosting in the $6-10 range. Since Meta-ARPA is only $3/mo, this discussion should presumably generate some new interest in that level of existing SDF support opportunities. TACKER: mikes (Mike Singletary) SUBJECT: .. transfer quotas DATE: 12-Aug-06 18:11:26 HOST: sverige avoyager: These days, shell access is actually quite common in the web hosting industry. Some places provide it freely with inexpensive plans, while others require a $20 fee to activate it on an account. I'm not saying that doesn't give SDF a leg up, as in most cases these are jailed shells and provide only limited tools. There are, however, some cases where hosts provide unjailed access to their servers. I think that SDF's services will definitely appeal to current webmasters without or with limited shell access to their current host's servers, as well as the possibility of a close-knit community there to help them learn UNIX. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: mikes (Mike Singletary) SUBJECT: .. transfer quotas DATE: 12-Aug-06 18:11:26 HOST: sverige avoyager: These days, shell access is actually quite common in the web hosting industry. Some places provide it freely with inexpensive plans, while others require a $20 fee to activate it on an account. I'm not saying that doesn't give SDF a leg up, as in most cases these are jailed shells and provide only limited tools. There are, however, some cases where hosts provide unjailed access to their servers. I think that SDF's services will definitely appeal to current webmasters without or with limited shell access to their current host's servers, as well as the possibility of a close-knit community there to help them learn UNIX. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Why 'motd.org' DATE: 12-Aug-06 14:20:09 HOST: sverige I've often thought that the MOTD model as presented was a great idea and tool for ... specifically, travelling family members who want to keep their friends and family appraised of their adventures; students abroad, newly-weds, etc. But in my worldview, it'd fit best (perfectly) under the apparently defunct .NON [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Why 'motd.org' DATE: 12-Aug-06 14:20:09 HOST: sverige I've often thought that the MOTD model as presented was a great idea and tool for ... specifically, travelling family members who want to keep their friends and family appraised of their adventures; students abroad, newly-weds, etc. But in my worldview, it'd fit best (perfectly) under the apparently defunct .NON TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Forum Software DATE: 12-Aug-06 15:11:04 HOST: sverige Does the new phpBB v2 run "system-wide" without each user installing the whole durn thing into $HOME ? (this has been stated as one reason for considering MOTD on SDF) [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Forum Software DATE: 12-Aug-06 15:11:04 HOST: sverige Does the new phpBB v2 run "system-wide" without each user installing the whole durn thing into $HOME ? (this has been stated as one reason for considering MOTD on SDF) ...TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. The future of the music "industry"? DATE: 14-May-06 04:54:39 HOST: sverige Those who control the message write the definitions. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. The future of the music "industry"? DATE: 14-May-06 04:54:39 HOST: sverige Those who control the message write the definitions. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. High Fidelity - Top Five Bands DATE: 11-Apr-06 11:40:13 HOST: sverige Grateful Dead Jefferson Airplane Quicksilver Messenger Service Poco Byrds Allman Brothers Doors Cream and countless others, because 5 is just way too few for that era. and then there's Les McCann & Eddie Harris Chet Atkins & Les Paul Gene Ammons & Sonny Stitt Soprano Summit PeeWee Russell Gene Krupa Meade Lux Lewis and Taj Mahal, John Mayall, Spencer Davis, and Merle Haggard ok.ok.ok.... [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. High Fidelity - Top Five Bands DATE: 11-Apr-06 11:40:13 HOST: sverige Grateful Dead Jefferson Airplane Quicksilver Messenger Service Poco Byrds Allman Brothers Doors Cream and countless others, because 5 is just way too few for that era. and then there's Les McCann & Eddie Harris Chet Atkins & Les Paul Gene Ammons & Sonny Stitt Soprano Summit PeeWee Russell Gene Krupa Meade Lux Lewis and Taj Mahal, John Mayall, Spencer Davis, and Merle Haggard ok.ok.ok.... .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Music distribution DATE: 05-Mar-06 19:05:46 HOST: sverige yeah, but not Twelve Dreams of Dr. Sardonicus [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Music distribution DATE: 05-Mar-06 19:05:46 HOST: sverige yeah, but not Twelve Dreams of Dr. Sardonicus TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. different music DATE: 17-Sep-06 20:58:30 HOST: sverige another excellent resource is http://www.publicradiofan.com/ and it has a lot of useful customization features. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. different music DATE: 17-Sep-06 20:58:30 HOST: sverige another excellent resource is http://www.publicradiofan.com/ and it has a lot of useful customization features. ..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Forum DATE: 09-Sep-06 15:12:40 HOST: sverige com is good for SDF members. Also, you must have missed it ... ChanServ(services@chatspike.net)- Information for channel #The_NON has been even more quiet there than here however; but you're welcome to change any of that ;-} [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Forum DATE: 09-Sep-06 15:12:40 HOST: sverige com is good for SDF members. Also, you must have missed it ... ChanServ(services@chatspike.net)- Information for channel #The_NON has been even more quiet there than here however; but you're welcome to change any of that ;-} TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. nit DATE: 09-Jul-06 18:57:58 HOST: sverige alas....I'm not clever enough to find it [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. nit DATE: 09-Jul-06 18:57:58 HOST: sverige alas....I'm not clever enough to find it TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. wiki recommendations DATE: 12-Jul-06 12:28:17 HOST: sverige Here for collective reference, is what's listed for those languages at Wikipedia. Ruby: http://www.instiki.org/ Python: http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/ So I won't bother attempting to set up PHP based PMWiki just yet. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. wiki recommendations DATE: 12-Jul-06 12:28:17 HOST: sverige Here for collective reference, is what's listed for those languages at Wikipedia. Ruby: http://www.instiki.org/ Python: http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/ So I won't bother attempting to set up PHP based PMWiki just yet. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. wiki recommendations DATE: 14-Jul-06 19:46:40 HOST: sverige good looking reference ... http://www.wikimatrix.org/ with selectable side-by-side comparisons [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. wiki recommendations DATE: 14-Jul-06 19:46:40 HOST: sverige good looking reference ... http://www.wikimatrix.org/ with selectable side-by-side comparisons .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Transparent proxy and DNS problem DATE: 13-Jul-06 03:25:49 HOST: sverige Since http proxies can do their own name resolution, you might want or need to access The NON network via an SSH tunnel (to The NON) with dynamic port forwarding (or tunnel to http proxy). That way your desk/lap/palm connection browses via SSH and doesn't get caught up in the ISP's transparent proxy on :80. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Transparent proxy and DNS problem DATE: 13-Jul-06 03:25:49 HOST: sverige Since http proxies can do their own name resolution, you might want or need to access The NON network via an SSH tunnel (to The NON) with dynamic port forwarding (or tunnel to http proxy). That way your desk/lap/palm connection browses via SSH and doesn't get caught up in the ISP's transparent proxy on :80. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. What prevents a sell out? DATE: 14-Jul-06 14:19:59 HOST: sverige I read two distinct issues in the original post. As to the first, my persistent and well established view is regarded by some as "too simple" and by others as insulting. So be it. I mean no offense to any individual by sharing this view with you. The single core issue is the fundamental interest of the parties involved. The parties can be individuals or various associations including universities and corporations. The fundamental interest is *either* self or others, and in both cases can be looking at either short or long term consequences of their current decisions. Worst case scenario is for a completely selfish party to behave with very short term concern, and accordingly with zero concern for long term or other parties. Now that that picture is clear, we can observe that under-regulated publicly traded corporations are ... um ... *a* worst case scenario, whose fundamental operating mandates are greed and exploitation. This is NOT a blanket condemnation of all capitalism as an economic model, but I'll stand my ground in asserting that it is a certain and terrible failure as a political model. The second issue Stephen brought up is more subtle in that it relates closely to individuals and their interactions. What is it like for today's children to grow up in a social climate which not just tolerates, but encourages, willful deception, exploitation, venemous hypocrisy, and a near total lack of any ethic (outside of the home)? That is not a non-question ;-} The experiences and deliberations of others will certainly vary, but these have been mine. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. What prevents a sell out? DATE: 14-Jul-06 14:19:59 HOST: sverige I read two distinct issues in the original post. As to the first, my persistent and well established view is regarded by some as "too simple" and by others as insulting. So be it. I mean no offense to any individual by sharing this view with you. The single core issue is the fundamental interest of the parties involved. The parties can be individuals or various associations including universities and corporations. The fundamental interest is *either* self or others, and in both cases can be looking at either short or long term consequences of their current decisions. Worst case scenario is for a completely selfish party to behave with very short term concern, and accordingly with zero concern for long term or other parties. Now that that picture is clear, we can observe that under-regulated publicly traded corporations are ... um ... *a* worst case scenario, whose fundamental operating mandates are greed and exploitation. This is NOT a blanket condemnation of all capitalism as an economic model, but I'll stand my ground in asserting that it is a certain and terrible failure as a political model. The second issue Stephen brought up is more subtle in that it relates closely to individuals and their interactions. What is it like for today's children to grow up in a social climate which not just tolerates, but encourages, willful deception, exploitation, venemous hypocrisy, and a near total lack of any ethic (outside of the home)? That is not a non-question ;-} The experiences and deliberations of others will certainly vary, but these have been mine. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. .non meeting Sunday July 16th, 2006 DATE: 14-Jul-06 14:01:16 HOST: sverige I'm available after 16z [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. .non meeting Sunday July 16th, 2006 DATE: 14-Jul-06 14:01:16 HOST: sverige I'm available after 16z TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. where to post about NON? DATE: 18-Jul-06 18:40:38 HOST: sdf The new forum isn't yet processing users with @sdf.non addresses :( [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. where to post about NON? DATE: 18-Jul-06 18:40:38 HOST: sdf The new forum isn't yet processing users with @sdf.non addresses :( TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. where to post about NON? DATE: 18-Jul-06 23:01:58 HOST: sdf Isn't nonnic.org, for now at least, the gateway or bridge by which folks enter into the wondrous world of The_NON ? [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. where to post about NON? DATE: 18-Jul-06 23:01:58 HOST: sdf Isn't nonnic.org, for now at least, the gateway or bridge by which folks enter into the wondrous world of The_NON ? TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. where to post about NON? DATE: 19-Jul-06 05:20:24 HOST: sverige one way bridge into The NON (rings of Rod Serling :) [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. where to post about NON? DATE: 19-Jul-06 05:20:24 HOST: sverige one way bridge into The NON (rings of Rod Serling :) TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. where to post about NON? DATE: 19-Jul-06 14:20:01 HOST: sdf Stephen, could you please clear my username 'avo' from the phpBB when you get a chance? I used an email @sdf.non (we are in the prototyping and debugging stages afterall) address, which wasn't delivered, and 'avo' appears to be a locked out username. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. where to post about NON? DATE: 19-Jul-06 14:20:01 HOST: sdf Stephen, could you please clear my username 'avo' from the phpBB when you get a chance? I used an email @sdf.non (we are in the prototyping and debugging stages afterall) address, which wasn't delivered, and 'avo' appears to be a locked out username. TACKER: smj (Stephen Jones) SUBJECT: .. where to post about NON? DATE: 19-Jul-06 17:16:33 HOST: ol I deleted avoyager and activated avo. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: smj (Stephen Jones) SUBJECT: .. where to post about NON? DATE: 19-Jul-06 17:16:33 HOST: ol I deleted avoyager and activated avo. .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. DNS settings DATE: 19-Jul-06 14:03:01 HOST: sverige It should work for you to add 192.94.73.5 to your list of DNS servers; and it's running now so you can try it any time. Make it the last, rather than first, of your list, so that you don't hammer it with all your other queries. A more complete discussion of this should take place on the nonnic.org forum soon if not already. Please post here your results. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. DNS settings DATE: 19-Jul-06 14:03:01 HOST: sverige It should work for you to add 192.94.73.5 to your list of DNS servers; and it's running now so you can try it any time. Make it the last, rather than first, of your list, so that you don't hammer it with all your other queries. A more complete discussion of this should take place on the nonnic.org forum soon if not already. Please post here your results. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Former Texas governor Ann Richards dies DATE: 14-Sep-06 13:00:54 HOST: sverige For those interested, .... the details of how George and Karl "took her out" are pretty well documented, and greatly under-exposed. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Former Texas governor Ann Richards dies DATE: 14-Sep-06 13:00:54 HOST: sverige For those interested, .... the details of how George and Karl "took her out" are pretty well documented, and greatly under-exposed. .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. a 15 yr. old activist's flash WWJD DATE: 01-May-06 01:51:21 HOST: sverige OK. Then let's use Switzerland as an example. Or Sweden. Or New Zealand. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. a 15 yr. old activist's flash WWJD DATE: 01-May-06 01:51:21 HOST: sverige OK. Then let's use Switzerland as an example. Or Sweden. Or New Zealand. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. a 15 yr. old activist's flash WWJD DATE: 01-May-06 23:47:14 HOST: sverige Switerzland, Sweden, several other civilized and industralized nations today live in peace without significant military operations. 17th century history is a bit off topic. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. a 15 yr. old activist's flash WWJD DATE: 01-May-06 23:47:14 HOST: sverige Switerzland, Sweden, several other civilized and industralized nations today live in peace without significant military operations. 17th century history is a bit off topic. .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. a 15 yr. old activist's flash WWJD DATE: 02-May-06 21:23:50 HOST: sverige "Show me somebody who risks something precious in a fervid support of an unpopular issue and then we'll take about his courage." It seems to me that in the Republican primaries for year 2000, John McCain was just running a basic political campaign, nothing even fervid, when he was publicly attacked by outright lies regarding his moral character or sexual perversions or something sufficiently revolting to voters that it cost him the rest of the contest. Personal dignity is kind of precious to most of us, but clearly not to his assailants. Examples of racial bias are abundant. The Mississippi lynchings aren't nearly as long ago as your historic examples. Joseph Wilson did what he thought was virtuous and honorable. That action directly caused the treasonous exposure of his wife's covert identity, and with it a measure of national security, which by any account is measured as precious these days, even by those who undermine it. Phil Donohue lost his precious job at MSNBC for refusing to toe the corporate line in his advocacy for peace and ethics. And, even to the start of this discussion, "For this inspired bit of courageous matriotism, Ava has been the object of intense and horribly ugly hate emails and not too subtle threats to do her bodily harm." Is that the kind of experience you hope for your 15yr old daughter or grand-daughter? It seems trifling to us grizzly veterans of thick skinned arguments, and whose social character and perspectives have been pretty well formed, and reformed over the years of diverse experience; but I offer that there are few things in life at all as precious as the innocence of youth. But me, I'm a pacifist, and not interested in fighting here. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. a 15 yr. old activist's flash WWJD DATE: 02-May-06 21:23:50 HOST: sverige "Show me somebody who risks something precious in a fervid support of an unpopular issue and then we'll take about his courage." It seems to me that in the Republican primaries for year 2000, John McCain was just running a basic political campaign, nothing even fervid, when he was publicly attacked by outright lies regarding his moral character or sexual perversions or something sufficiently revolting to voters that it cost him the rest of the contest. Personal dignity is kind of precious to most of us, but clearly not to his assailants. Examples of racial bias are abundant. The Mississippi lynchings aren't nearly as long ago as your historic examples. Joseph Wilson did what he thought was virtuous and honorable. That action directly caused the treasonous exposure of his wife's covert identity, and with it a measure of national security, which by any account is measured as precious these days, even by those who undermine it. Phil Donohue lost his precious job at MSNBC for refusing to toe the corporate line in his advocacy for peace and ethics. And, even to the start of this discussion, "For this inspired bit of courageous matriotism, Ava has been the object of intense and horribly ugly hate emails and not too subtle threats to do her bodily harm." Is that the kind of experience you hope for your 15yr old daughter or grand-daughter? It seems trifling to us grizzly veterans of thick skinned arguments, and whose social character and perspectives have been pretty well formed, and reformed over the years of diverse experience; but I offer that there are few things in life at all as precious as the innocence of youth. But me, I'm a pacifist, and not interested in fighting here. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. a 15 yr. old activist's flash WWJD DATE: 28-Apr-06 13:16:08 HOST: sverige Hi Fred, Yeah, I'm not any fan of Huffington either; but it's nice of her to host the kid's domain. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. a 15 yr. old activist's flash WWJD DATE: 28-Apr-06 13:16:08 HOST: sverige Hi Fred, Yeah, I'm not any fan of Huffington either; but it's nice of her to host the kid's domain. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. a 15 yr. old activist's flash WWJD DATE: 30-Apr-06 17:48:14 HOST: sverige "The bold are not always vicious conquerors but sometimes merely those who would risk all on their continued independence in the face of those who fight to conquer the "other"." i.e. the Iraqis I'm sure all peaceniks would take action rather than complacency when their liberty and peace was threatened. They always have. It takes courage because many in the human species are yet unevolved bullys and brutes with more brawn than brains or ethics; and more self-imposing will to dominate than to negotiate harmony. Peace is without fear. It doesn't live in fear, and it does not impart fear. Peace is possible. It is the testamony of those tho who live it willfully. For the warmongers and imperialists, it is only a dream, or an illusion; for they only feel peace in the presence of other's fear of them. It's all clearly spelled out in every holy text of every theology throughout civilization. I encourage those who think that a repressive police state provides peace move to Israel and see how it's been working over there for the last few dozen years. Or maybe Iraq. And take Cheney with you. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. a 15 yr. old activist's flash WWJD DATE: 30-Apr-06 17:48:14 HOST: sverige "The bold are not always vicious conquerors but sometimes merely those who would risk all on their continued independence in the face of those who fight to conquer the "other"." i.e. the Iraqis I'm sure all peaceniks would take action rather than complacency when their liberty and peace was threatened. They always have. It takes courage because many in the human species are yet unevolved bullys and brutes with more brawn than brains or ethics; and more self-imposing will to dominate than to negotiate harmony. Peace is without fear. It doesn't live in fear, and it does not impart fear. Peace is possible. It is the testamony of those tho who live it willfully. For the warmongers and imperialists, it is only a dream, or an illusion; for they only feel peace in the presence of other's fear of them. It's all clearly spelled out in every holy text of every theology throughout civilization. I encourage those who think that a repressive police state provides peace move to Israel and see how it's been working over there for the last few dozen years. Or maybe Iraq. And take Cheney with you. .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Forty-two DATE: 31-Mar-06 17:42:46 HOST: sverige I also enjoyed that; thank you. Although, I've no idea about any other significance of the number 42, in HHGuide or elsewhere. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Forty-two DATE: 31-Mar-06 17:42:46 HOST: sverige I also enjoyed that; thank you. Although, I've no idea about any other significance of the number 42, in HHGuide or elsewhere. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. du Sautoy's failure to perceive one nature of physics DATE: 01-Apr-06 05:03:59 HOST: sverige "Most important objects in mathematics???" PIes [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. du Sautoy's failure to perceive one nature of physics DATE: 01-Apr-06 05:03:59 HOST: sverige "Most important objects in mathematics???" PIes ..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Can we get some additional newsgroups DATE: 01-Sep-06 02:19:52 HOST: sverige In case the response is 'no' or slow, you might be able to find those on news.readfreenews.net and can configure SDF clients to read (and post) there I expect. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Can we get some additional newsgroups DATE: 01-Sep-06 02:19:52 HOST: sverige In case the response is 'no' or slow, you might be able to find those on news.readfreenews.net and can configure SDF clients to read (and post) there I expect. .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. the 'delme' message DATE: 04-Sep-06 06:08:59 HOST: sdf "I used to ask people to tell us, if they liked, why they had decided to run 'delme'. Here is what I got:" So what? That response has nothing to do with the original suggestion, which I still support, of just saying "your account has been removed" rather than "your account has been removed, you stupid fat white commit twit bastard" [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. the 'delme' message DATE: 04-Sep-06 06:08:59 HOST: sdf "I used to ask people to tell us, if they liked, why they had decided to run 'delme'. Here is what I got:" So what? That response has nothing to do with the original suggestion, which I still support, of just saying "your account has been removed" rather than "your account has been removed, you stupid fat white commit twit bastard" ..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. what happened to tor? DATE: 07-Feb-06 01:41:56 HOST: sverige tor is still being used on sverige; and I suspect from notable lag and traceroutes and top that it *may* be contributing significantly to negative performance experiences. What is the concern about irssi, my favorite irc client? Is it the proxy/relay feature (which I don't use)? Wouldn't that constitute a server level membership? --Avo [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. what happened to tor? DATE: 07-Feb-06 01:41:56 HOST: sverige tor is still being used on sverige; and I suspect from notable lag and traceroutes and top that it *may* be contributing significantly to negative performance experiences. What is the concern about irssi, my favorite irc client? Is it the proxy/relay feature (which I don't use)? Wouldn't that constitute a server level membership? --Avo ..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. problem post DATE: 09-Jun-06 14:10:44 HOST: sverige Dialup customers rejected the "In case of problems, most probably there are some problems" clause. And then the motd had problems reaching the user who couldn't connect and login. So "the good lord" invented patience and panic as part of the human condition since they couldn't be accomodated by the machines. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. problem post DATE: 09-Jun-06 14:10:44 HOST: sverige Dialup customers rejected the "In case of problems, most probably there are some problems" clause. And then the motd had problems reaching the user who couldn't connect and login. So "the good lord" invented patience and panic as part of the human condition since they couldn't be accomodated by the machines. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. greylist -t permission issue DATE: 09-Oct-06 07:36:25 HOST: sverige Claudio, Nobody likes to lose mail; but Greylisting does not cause the loss of mail. Greylisting only tells the mail sender to "try again later". Many other conditions also generate that message, and have done so forever. All mmail transfer agents know to expect that situation, and know to respond by just attempting delivery again later. It happens all the time, everywhere, with or without Greylisting. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. greylist -t permission issue DATE: 09-Oct-06 07:36:25 HOST: sverige Claudio, Nobody likes to lose mail; but Greylisting does not cause the loss of mail. Greylisting only tells the mail sender to "try again later". Many other conditions also generate that message, and have done so forever. All mmail transfer agents know to expect that situation, and know to respond by just attempting delivery again later. It happens all the time, everywhere, with or without Greylisting. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. greylist -t permission issue DATE: 09-Oct-06 13:24:17 HOST: sverige This most mis-configured mail server I'm seeing is kintera.com which resends faster than every second. That's both stupid and insane, and they've been notified to no avail. Any mail system which doesn't resend at all, and does not return notice to sender, isn't worth using. Please don't suggest that the tail start wagging the dog on this issue. Basic published standards of practice should be upheld, no matter who doesn't adhere to them. Those who don't jus risk loss of service. If you're victimized by your mail host, don't blame SDF, or expect anyone to try and accomodate misconfigurations of any stripe. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. greylist -t permission issue DATE: 09-Oct-06 13:24:17 HOST: sverige This most mis-configured mail server I'm seeing is kintera.com which resends faster than every second. That's both stupid and insane, and they've been notified to no avail. Any mail system which doesn't resend at all, and does not return notice to sender, isn't worth using. Please don't suggest that the tail start wagging the dog on this issue. Basic published standards of practice should be upheld, no matter who doesn't adhere to them. Those who don't jus risk loss of service. If you're victimized by your mail host, don't blame SDF, or expect anyone to try and accomodate misconfigurations of any stripe. TACKER: taviso (Tavis Ormandy) SUBJECT: .. greylist -t permission issue DATE: 09-Oct-06 13:37:35 HOST: ukato > Any mail system which doesn't resend at all, and does not return notice > to sender, isn't worth using. Awesome, so all I have to do is contact everyone who sends me mail, or might want to send me mail in the future and tell them to go and read up on the relevant rfc's before choosing a mail server to contact me via. Good thinking avoyager, why didnt I think of that. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: taviso (Tavis Ormandy) SUBJECT: .. greylist -t permission issue DATE: 09-Oct-06 13:37:35 HOST: ukato > Any mail system which doesn't resend at all, and does not return notice > to sender, isn't worth using. Awesome, so all I have to do is contact everyone who sends me mail, or might want to send me mail in the future and tell them to go and read up on the relevant rfc's before choosing a mail server to contact me via. Good thinking avoyager, why didnt I think of that. TACKER: mgardner (Michael Gardner) SUBJECT: .. greylist -t permission issue DATE: 09-Oct-06 14:36:21 HOST: sdf > Awesome, so all I have to do is contact everyone who sends me mail, or > might want to send me mail in the future and tell them to go and read up > on the relevant rfc's before choosing a mail server to contact me via. > Good thinking avoyager, why didnt I think of that. Yes, perhaps you should, if you're so concerned about it. I just can't relate to this thinking that we should bend over backwards to accomodate every incorrect configuration, and get deluged with spam just so messages from joescountrybumpkinmailserver.com don't bounce. I'm going to stand with what I hope is the silent majority here on SDF and say that I love greylisting. Furthermore, I would rather lose the occasional legitimate email than deal with 30 spams a day. (I have seen no evidence that greylisting causes lost mail, just responding to those who think otherwise.) Incidentally, how many legitimate messages did I accidentally lose while, eyes glazed over, I stared at my inbox everyday hitting the delete key about 30 times? Probably a few. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: mgardner (Michael Gardner) SUBJECT: .. greylist -t permission issue DATE: 09-Oct-06 14:36:21 HOST: sdf > Awesome, so all I have to do is contact everyone who sends me mail, or > might want to send me mail in the future and tell them to go and read up > on the relevant rfc's before choosing a mail server to contact me via. > Good thinking avoyager, why didnt I think of that. Yes, perhaps you should, if you're so concerned about it. I just can't relate to this thinking that we should bend over backwards to accomodate every incorrect configuration, and get deluged with spam just so messages from joescountrybumpkinmailserver.com don't bounce. I'm going to stand with what I hope is the silent majority here on SDF and say that I love greylisting. Furthermore, I would rather lose the occasional legitimate email than deal with 30 spams a day. (I have seen no evidence that greylisting causes lost mail, just responding to those who think otherwise.) Incidentally, how many legitimate messages did I accidentally lose while, eyes glazed over, I stared at my inbox everyday hitting the delete key about 30 times? Probably a few. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. greylist -t permission issue DATE: 09-Oct-06 15:44:21 HOST: sverige "Awesome, so all I have to do is contact everyone who sends me mail, or might want to send me mail in the future and tell them to go and read up on the relevant rfc's before choosing a mail server to contact me via. Good thinking avoyager, why didnt I think of that." You did. I didn't. This matter is so simple. I'm astounded at how many don't get it at all and just whine. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. greylist -t permission issue DATE: 09-Oct-06 15:44:21 HOST: sverige "Awesome, so all I have to do is contact everyone who sends me mail, or might want to send me mail in the future and tell them to go and read up on the relevant rfc's before choosing a mail server to contact me via. Good thinking avoyager, why didnt I think of that." You did. I didn't. This matter is so simple. I'm astounded at how many don't get it at all and just whine. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. greylist -t permission issue DATE: 09-Oct-06 19:05:15 HOST: sverige "Maybe you're the one who doesnt get it?" No. "let me sum it up for you" Don't bother trying. "if everyone implements the standards correctly , sets sane redelivery policies and nobody misconfigures their mail server, greylisting wont interfere with legitimate mail delivery (apart from delaying it for hours, days, etc.)". Even if everyone did the opposite of what you posit, greylisting still does not interfere with legitimate mail delivery. In fact it encourages legitmate mail delivery, regardless of your posits. I'm done here. You may of course have your last wasted words. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. greylist -t permission issue DATE: 09-Oct-06 19:05:15 HOST: sverige "Maybe you're the one who doesnt get it?" No. "let me sum it up for you" Don't bother trying. "if everyone implements the standards correctly , sets sane redelivery policies and nobody misconfigures their mail server, greylisting wont interfere with legitimate mail delivery (apart from delaying it for hours, days, etc.)". Even if everyone did the opposite of what you posit, greylisting still does not interfere with legitimate mail delivery. In fact it encourages legitmate mail delivery, regardless of your posits. I'm done here. You may of course have your last wasted words. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. greylist -t permission issue DATE: 10-Oct-06 14:31:31 HOST: sverige It's possible that the spambots will be recoded to attempt one retry an hour or two later; and those systems will then beat the greylisting. As smj has pointed out, possibly in the new FAQ section on greylisting, he also doesn't applly greylisting to senders with SPF records. That's just another "loophole" thru which policy can be circumvented. It's possible that today's determined spammers depend more upon quantity of spewage than upon increasing their percentage of successful deliveries; and that holding outbound messages in the queue for resend later (when it stands a very large probability of being rejected anyway) is counter-productive to their interests, now and until some other circumstances of their overall technical and social milieu suggest new strategies. Nobody every suggested or even thought that blacklisting or even fixing open relays would end spam forever; or that outbound :25 blocking would end spam forever; any more than a rational mind would think that there is any technical solution to greed. Of course, there are plenty of irrational minds operating in positions of influence and authority today, so one shouldn't presuppose too much of any situation. For now however, every useful tool helps. Only 3% of greylisted connections return to deliver on my system. That's a lot of spam stopped, and I don't apply greylisting until very late in the test sequence. Far more useful in rejecting spam is to require FCrDNS from every system which connects to deliver. While RFCs don't require it from MTAs, there is a dearth of good reason (other than laziness and stupidity) why a legitimate mailhost cannot or should not configure their DNS for this. A full 38% of my inbound connections are rejected for this cause, again with temporary rather than permanent response code, before any other tests are applied. The battle goes on. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. greylist -t permission issue DATE: 10-Oct-06 14:31:31 HOST: sverige It's possible that the spambots will be recoded to attempt one retry an hour or two later; and those systems will then beat the greylisting. As smj has pointed out, possibly in the new FAQ section on greylisting, he also doesn't applly greylisting to senders with SPF records. That's just another "loophole" thru which policy can be circumvented. It's possible that today's determined spammers depend more upon quantity of spewage than upon increasing their percentage of successful deliveries; and that holding outbound messages in the queue for resend later (when it stands a very large probability of being rejected anyway) is counter-productive to their interests, now and until some other circumstances of their overall technical and social milieu suggest new strategies. Nobody every suggested or even thought that blacklisting or even fixing open relays would end spam forever; or that outbound :25 blocking would end spam forever; any more than a rational mind would think that there is any technical solution to greed. Of course, there are plenty of irrational minds operating in positions of influence and authority today, so one shouldn't presuppose too much of any situation. For now however, every useful tool helps. Only 3% of greylisted connections return to deliver on my system. That's a lot of spam stopped, and I don't apply greylisting until very late in the test sequence. Far more useful in rejecting spam is to require FCrDNS from every system which connects to deliver. While RFCs don't require it from MTAs, there is a dearth of good reason (other than laziness and stupidity) why a legitimate mailhost cannot or should not configure their DNS for this. A full 38% of my inbound connections are rejected for this cause, again with temporary rather than permanent response code, before any other tests are applied. The battle goes on. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. greylist -t permission issue DATE: 10-Oct-06 15:48:06 HOST: sverige Yes, Greg. Greylisting also adds overhead (not dollar cost necessarily) to the spammer's operation; but only if spammer queues the message for retry. On the other hand, by rejecting their spew before DATA it saves them connection time; and gets them through their list faster. Some earnest anti-spam activists use a technique of actively prolonging the connection in order to slow down the spewage, sort of like a honey-pot. It's a bit more resource intensive for the activist however; and of course the spamware responded by shortening its timeout tolerance. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. greylist -t permission issue DATE: 10-Oct-06 15:48:06 HOST: sverige Yes, Greg. Greylisting also adds overhead (not dollar cost necessarily) to the spammer's operation; but only if spammer queues the message for retry. On the other hand, by rejecting their spew before DATA it saves them connection time; and gets them through their list faster. Some earnest anti-spam activists use a technique of actively prolonging the connection in order to slow down the spewage, sort of like a honey-pot. It's a bit more resource intensive for the activist however; and of course the spamware responded by shortening its timeout tolerance. .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. greylist -t permission issue DATE: 11-Oct-06 00:25:02 HOST: sverige "And as far as I can tell, nobody has offered a real solution to this scenario." Ah, David, but "they" have; and it's fully described in the SDF FAQ :) as: When the previously greylisted connects back, SDF accepts its connection and allows the email to be delivered. This also takes in account for other SMTP servers on the same network since greylisting on SDF only looks at CIDR 24 (255.255.255.0) and therefore the host number is ignored. This allows greylisting to work with large mail server farms such as gmail. -- Additionally, there are surely one or more lists maintained of totally incalcitrant hosts, for possible use in whitelisting, which are surely a magnet for spammers. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. greylist -t permission issue DATE: 11-Oct-06 00:25:02 HOST: sverige "And as far as I can tell, nobody has offered a real solution to this scenario." Ah, David, but "they" have; and it's fully described in the SDF FAQ :) as: When the previously greylisted connects back, SDF accepts its connection and allows the email to be delivered. This also takes in account for other SMTP servers on the same network since greylisting on SDF only looks at CIDR 24 (255.255.255.0) and therefore the host number is ignored. This allows greylisting to work with large mail server farms such as gmail. -- Additionally, there are surely one or more lists maintained of totally incalcitrant hosts, for possible use in whitelisting, which are surely a magnet for spammers. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. possibility of greylisted mail quarantine folder? DATE: 09-Oct-06 13:20:26 HOST: sverige David, you're completely missing the methodology of Greylisting. Please see the SDF tutorial on the subject and links therein. You could even look in recent conversations in the REQUESTS board and learn much. Thank you. - avo [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. possibility of greylisted mail quarantine folder? DATE: 09-Oct-06 13:20:26 HOST: sverige David, you're completely missing the methodology of Greylisting. Please see the SDF tutorial on the subject and links therein. You could even look in recent conversations in the REQUESTS board and learn much. Thank you. - avo TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. possibility of greylisted mail quarantine folder? DATE: 09-Oct-06 15:46:29 HOST: sverige David, You can't save a copy of a message you don't have. Greylisting refuses to accept the message (at first, issuing temporary rejection, not permanent rejection). The message is not trashed, discarded, or anything else. The sender is told to send it later, before it is delivered. Accordingly, it is not on the system available to be saved. The whole point of greylisting is to leave the spewage on the spewers system, not accept it with a promise to deliver it. When the sender tries again, the message is accepted and delivered to you. THAT is the responsiblity of the mail server which accepts the mail, to deliver what it accepts. You may then do what you wish with it. By the way, it is NOT a responsibility of the mail server to accept the mail in the first place; only to deliver it after it has accepted it. Greylisting says to the sender "I will accept your mail in ten minutes. Send it then." There is nothing irresponsible about that. It happens all the time for many reasons other than greylisting. Enjoy it. It works well. - avo [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. possibility of greylisted mail quarantine folder? DATE: 09-Oct-06 15:46:29 HOST: sverige David, You can't save a copy of a message you don't have. Greylisting refuses to accept the message (at first, issuing temporary rejection, not permanent rejection). The message is not trashed, discarded, or anything else. The sender is told to send it later, before it is delivered. Accordingly, it is not on the system available to be saved. The whole point of greylisting is to leave the spewage on the spewers system, not accept it with a promise to deliver it. When the sender tries again, the message is accepted and delivered to you. THAT is the responsiblity of the mail server which accepts the mail, to deliver what it accepts. You may then do what you wish with it. By the way, it is NOT a responsibility of the mail server to accept the mail in the first place; only to deliver it after it has accepted it. Greylisting says to the sender "I will accept your mail in ten minutes. Send it then." There is nothing irresponsible about that. It happens all the time for many reasons other than greylisting. Enjoy it. It works well. - avo ......TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. wtf?? DATE: 18-Sep-06 13:09:03 HOST: sverige and $ wtf bsd [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. wtf?? DATE: 18-Sep-06 13:09:03 HOST: sverige and $ wtf bsd ...TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. spf records DATE: 24-Jun-06 13:02:46 HOST: sverige I thought the SPF initiative had been abandoned by most serious concerns; but that was many months ago. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. spf records DATE: 24-Jun-06 13:02:46 HOST: sverige I thought the SPF initiative had been abandoned by most serious concerns; but that was many months ago. ..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. MDNS not working for me DATE: 28-Aug-06 12:06:09 HOST: sverige I hadn't noticed or checked before now, but in doing so at this time I find that the nameservers at freeshell.org cannot be reached. Thanks for noticing! [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. MDNS not working for me DATE: 28-Aug-06 12:06:09 HOST: sverige I hadn't noticed or checked before now, but in doing so at this time I find that the nameservers at freeshell.org cannot be reached. Thanks for noticing! .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. greylist-milter is out of hand. DATE: 04-Oct-06 02:50:45 HOST: sverige mrbigjas: I find the greylist entries to have timestamps: -- in the future (i.e. expiration date/time ??) -- 12 hrs. later than the message was received. The obvious conclusion from this, and answer to your question, will be verifiable in a few more hours yet. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. greylist-milter is out of hand. DATE: 04-Oct-06 02:50:45 HOST: sverige mrbigjas: I find the greylist entries to have timestamps: -- in the future (i.e. expiration date/time ??) -- 12 hrs. later than the message was received. The obvious conclusion from this, and answer to your question, will be verifiable in a few more hours yet. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. greylist-milter is out of hand. DATE: 05-Oct-06 19:35:04 HOST: sverige yohann, your problem has nothing to do with greylisting; I didn't see in your post which of your two mail servers issued the permanent rejection; I did see a lot of irrelevance pasted into your post. Please try to study the matter a little more earnestly before searching for others to blame. yohaan.net. 43200 IN MX 75 sevcom.com. yohaan.net. 43200 IN MX 50 smtp.freeshell.org. ;; Received 225 bytes from 192.94.73.20#53(ns-a.freeshell.org) in 50 ms Your two mail servers are listed above. Greylisting issues a response of "temporary failure" not permanent. During the recent disk upgrades, it is possible that some of the SDF DNS servers were temporarily unavailable, which might cause sending servers to not find an MX for your domain, or even find your domain at all. In that case, they *might* issue a permanent failure; or the might hold the message for up to 5 days while continuing attempts to deliver the message. Don't panic. It interferes with sound reasoning and useful research. Thanks. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. greylist-milter is out of hand. DATE: 05-Oct-06 19:35:04 HOST: sverige yohann, your problem has nothing to do with greylisting; I didn't see in your post which of your two mail servers issued the permanent rejection; I did see a lot of irrelevance pasted into your post. Please try to study the matter a little more earnestly before searching for others to blame. yohaan.net. 43200 IN MX 75 sevcom.com. yohaan.net. 43200 IN MX 50 smtp.freeshell.org. ;; Received 225 bytes from 192.94.73.20#53(ns-a.freeshell.org) in 50 ms Your two mail servers are listed above. Greylisting issues a response of "temporary failure" not permanent. During the recent disk upgrades, it is possible that some of the SDF DNS servers were temporarily unavailable, which might cause sending servers to not find an MX for your domain, or even find your domain at all. In that case, they *might* issue a permanent failure; or the might hold the message for up to 5 days while continuing attempts to deliver the message. Don't panic. It interferes with sound reasoning and useful research. Thanks. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. greylist-milter is out of hand. DATE: 28-Sep-06 20:44:08 HOST: sverige I'll share two observations, both understood by me to be factual, without taking a position on Deanna's request. Greylisting refuses to accept mail for a configurable number of minutes after the first rejection. The next resend attempt is controlled by the sender. For the sender to wait 4 hours for first resend is as inapproppriate as to resend after 4 seconds. A more practical schedule is for first resend to be in the range of 1-5 minutes, and each subsequent attempt to be a doubling of the wait interval. Greylisting is extremely effective against spam and virus email, and it does not block wanted mail, only delay it, usually by less than 10 minutes. Additionally, I offer the suggestion that customizing system server policy for individual users is a non-trivial customization. --since you asked [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. greylist-milter is out of hand. DATE: 28-Sep-06 20:44:08 HOST: sverige I'll share two observations, both understood by me to be factual, without taking a position on Deanna's request. Greylisting refuses to accept mail for a configurable number of minutes after the first rejection. The next resend attempt is controlled by the sender. For the sender to wait 4 hours for first resend is as inapproppriate as to resend after 4 seconds. A more practical schedule is for first resend to be in the range of 1-5 minutes, and each subsequent attempt to be a doubling of the wait interval. Greylisting is extremely effective against spam and virus email, and it does not block wanted mail, only delay it, usually by less than 10 minutes. Additionally, I offer the suggestion that customizing system server policy for individual users is a non-trivial customization. --since you asked TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. greylist-milter is out of hand. DATE: 28-Sep-06 21:34:17 HOST: sverige I just confirmed that SDF is deferring inbound mail for longer than 30 minutes; though I don't show it to be a greylisting .... from mail.log: smtp.freeshell.org[192.94.73.18], delay=1925, status=deferred (host smtp.freeshell.org[192.94.73.18] said: 451 4.7.1 Connection deferred. (in reply to RCPT TO command) [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. greylist-milter is out of hand. DATE: 28-Sep-06 21:34:17 HOST: sverige I just confirmed that SDF is deferring inbound mail for longer than 30 minutes; though I don't show it to be a greylisting .... from mail.log: smtp.freeshell.org[192.94.73.18], delay=1925, status=deferred (host smtp.freeshell.org[192.94.73.18] said: 451 4.7.1 Connection deferred. (in reply to RCPT TO command) ....TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Ice Hockey DATE: 06-Nov-06 03:32:37 HOST: sverige Yep. I played indoor and outdoor throughout childhood before high school, back when there were 6 teams in the NHL. Today the skaters are faster, their shots are faster, and the game has been overhauled completely with sprint-till-you-can't on-the-fly shift changes, while the ice area, still the same size, has become far too small. For men's hockey to interest me any more, the rink needs to expand by at least 30%. Meanwhile, as evidenced by the 2006 Olympic Games (winter Athens), womens hockey has become an exciting sport. I find it all together different, and in many ways better than, the mens version. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Ice Hockey DATE: 06-Nov-06 03:32:37 HOST: sverige Yep. I played indoor and outdoor throughout childhood before high school, back when there were 6 teams in the NHL. Today the skaters are faster, their shots are faster, and the game has been overhauled completely with sprint-till-you-can't on-the-fly shift changes, while the ice area, still the same size, has become far too small. For men's hockey to interest me any more, the rink needs to expand by at least 30%. Meanwhile, as evidenced by the 2006 Olympic Games (winter Athens), womens hockey has become an exciting sport. I find it all together different, and in many ways better than, the mens version. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. console based checkbook registry program DATE: 18-Aug-06 02:12:08 HOST: sverige lots for DOS, still a console environment, even on palmtops such as the HP200lx Oh!; but there is no "such as". [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. console based checkbook registry program DATE: 18-Aug-06 02:12:08 HOST: sverige lots for DOS, still a console environment, even on palmtops such as the HP200lx Oh!; but there is no "such as". ..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Virtual PC DATE: 12-Aug-06 20:32:05 HOST: sverige James, what device did you use for a mouse with X11 in your NetBSD guest? [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Virtual PC DATE: 12-Aug-06 20:32:05 HOST: sverige James, what device did you use for a mouse with X11 in your NetBSD guest? TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Virtual PC DATE: 13-Aug-06 21:56:38 HOST: sverige Thanks, James. That helped me find my mouse at /dev/psaux Here's my functioning XF86 config (partial/relevant): Section "InputDevice" Identifier "Configured Mouse" Driver "mouse" Option "CorePointer" Option "Device" "/dev/psaux" Option "Protocol" "PS/2" Option "Emulate3Buttons" "true" EndSection Section "Device" Identifier "S3 Inc. 86c764/765 [Trio32/64/64V+]" Driver "s3" VideoRam 4096 EndSection I'm using the old Connectix VPC for OS/2 from before MS purchased and killed it; and have the printed manual which details the emulations and other things. If you have any questions about VPC which you think it or I may be able to answer, please ask. The last time I attempted a NetBSD install into this system, it failed; but now with a strong Debian net-install working well, I'll try harder to get an NetBSD guest running. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Virtual PC DATE: 13-Aug-06 21:56:38 HOST: sverige Thanks, James. That helped me find my mouse at /dev/psaux Here's my functioning XF86 config (partial/relevant): Section "InputDevice" Identifier "Configured Mouse" Driver "mouse" Option "CorePointer" Option "Device" "/dev/psaux" Option "Protocol" "PS/2" Option "Emulate3Buttons" "true" EndSection Section "Device" Identifier "S3 Inc. 86c764/765 [Trio32/64/64V+]" Driver "s3" VideoRam 4096 EndSection I'm using the old Connectix VPC for OS/2 from before MS purchased and killed it; and have the printed manual which details the emulations and other things. If you have any questions about VPC which you think it or I may be able to answer, please ask. The last time I attempted a NetBSD install into this system, it failed; but now with a strong Debian net-install working well, I'll try harder to get an NetBSD guest running. ...TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Thanks to smj DATE: 18-Dec-05 23:50:26 HOST: sverige I agree. Thank you, Stephen. Your affection for this project does show in your dedication to it; and your toleration of those of us who aren't too smart or too wealthy. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Thanks to smj DATE: 18-Dec-05 23:50:26 HOST: sverige I agree. Thank you, Stephen. Your affection for this project does show in your dedication to it; and your toleration of those of us who aren't too smart or too wealthy. .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. BYU Suspends 911 Truth Professor Steven Jones DATE: 13-Sep-06 16:39:06 HOST: sverige No they are not. You're just afraid of the truths which the US Government is obviously hiding. That "government" by the way is the same gang of treasonous wackos which spent more money investigating Clinton's "Whitewater" dealings than they have on investigating their precious "9-11". LOTS MORE. If you can be proud of that record, you're one sick scared anonymous sap who has been totally bamboozled indeed. -- deal with it [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. BYU Suspends 911 Truth Professor Steven Jones DATE: 13-Sep-06 16:39:06 HOST: sverige No they are not. You're just afraid of the truths which the US Government is obviously hiding. That "government" by the way is the same gang of treasonous wackos which spent more money investigating Clinton's "Whitewater" dealings than they have on investigating their precious "9-11". LOTS MORE. If you can be proud of that record, you're one sick scared anonymous sap who has been totally bamboozled indeed. -- deal with it .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. So where do we draw the line ... DATE: 19-May-06 00:25:52 HOST: sverige "I bet if you use torpark or ssh that automagically makes you a criminal -- you've got something to hide through encryption." Well now, there's the rub, you see, because .... me .... I have nothing "to hide" which you or anyone else could use against me in any way; and nothing subversive or scandalous etc.; but on the other hand, whatever I have IS "mine" and I hide it because it's no business of yours, no matter *what* it is. The Net still has time to evolve to where *everything* is encrypted by default, and users have to go out of their way to transmit in plain open text. That's much more likely to happen than the War Party holding bake sales to finance their reckless vain imperialisms, dontcha think? [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. So where do we draw the line ... DATE: 19-May-06 00:25:52 HOST: sverige "I bet if you use torpark or ssh that automagically makes you a criminal -- you've got something to hide through encryption." Well now, there's the rub, you see, because .... me .... I have nothing "to hide" which you or anyone else could use against me in any way; and nothing subversive or scandalous etc.; but on the other hand, whatever I have IS "mine" and I hide it because it's no business of yours, no matter *what* it is. The Net still has time to evolve to where *everything* is encrypted by default, and users have to go out of their way to transmit in plain open text. That's much more likely to happen than the War Party holding bake sales to finance their reckless vain imperialisms, dontcha think? TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Listen to Alex Jones! DATE: 29-Jun-06 22:24:54 HOST: sverige MUCH more viable than the official lies. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Listen to Alex Jones! DATE: 29-Jun-06 22:24:54 HOST: sverige MUCH more viable than the official lies. .TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. How paranoid are j00? DATE: 29-Jun-06 22:23:59 HOST: sverige I remind interested parties of traceroute.org [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. How paranoid are j00? DATE: 29-Jun-06 22:23:59 HOST: sverige I remind interested parties of traceroute.org ..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Discussions? DATE: 23-Mar-06 11:59:19 HOST: sverige To those contributing, ... "thanks" for the discussion; I'm enjoying it and probably learning something. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Discussions? DATE: 23-Mar-06 11:59:19 HOST: sverige To those contributing, ... "thanks" for the discussion; I'm enjoying it and probably learning something. ..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. SSH key authentication DATE: 28-Jul-06 23:04:15 HOST: sverige I have imported samble's SSH Key Authentication tutorial into the SDF tutorial system, and edited out the silenceisdefeat references and wiki remnants. I have NOT walked thru it to verify suitability with SDF accounts. It should be done. Thank you, samble, for your contribution. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. SSH key authentication DATE: 28-Jul-06 23:04:15 HOST: sverige I have imported samble's SSH Key Authentication tutorial into the SDF tutorial system, and edited out the silenceisdefeat references and wiki remnants. I have NOT walked thru it to verify suitability with SDF accounts. It should be done. Thank you, samble, for your contribution. ....TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Unix in Win32 CommandLine DATE: 21-Jan-06 22:47:40 HOST: sverige you could create aliases for the 4DOS command processor; or batch files for either 4dos or command.com Batch files, in case you don't know, are DOS based shell scripts. ls.bat: dir %1 not too much more difficult than that. of course, there is not a 1:1 correspondence, do don't expect to be able to do everything you want, but if DOS can do it by keystroke, it can do it by batchfile script. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Unix in Win32 CommandLine DATE: 21-Jan-06 22:47:40 HOST: sverige you could create aliases for the 4DOS command processor; or batch files for either 4dos or command.com Batch files, in case you don't know, are DOS based shell scripts. ls.bat: dir %1 not too much more difficult than that. of course, there is not a 1:1 correspondence, do don't expect to be able to do everything you want, but if DOS can do it by keystroke, it can do it by batchfile script. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. hurricanes and global warming DATE: 07-Dec-05 13:25:57 HOST: sverige Fred, you're my kind of scientist, always taking a measure of how wrong we are. Accordingly, the retention of hair upon your head is not necessarily a reflection of your time spent in "adult stores", or on the beach ;-} [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. hurricanes and global warming DATE: 07-Dec-05 13:25:57 HOST: sverige Fred, you're my kind of scientist, always taking a measure of how wrong we are. Accordingly, the retention of hair upon your head is not necessarily a reflection of your time spent in "adult stores", or on the beach ;-} TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. hurricanes and global warming DATE: 07-Dec-05 22:52:32 HOST: sverige I think the fact set includes observation that the burning of carbon based fuels does pollute the atmosphere, and has consequences both direct and indirect which are both unintentional and unrecognized; and that Ethopia is not the largest source of this activity. Peace, [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. hurricanes and global warming DATE: 07-Dec-05 22:52:32 HOST: sverige I think the fact set includes observation that the burning of carbon based fuels does pollute the atmosphere, and has consequences both direct and indirect which are both unintentional and unrecognized; and that Ethopia is not the largest source of this activity. Peace, ..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. html, xhtml1, xhtml11 DATE: 17-Apr-06 12:15:56 HOST: sverige Hi. Since we're on this subject, I'd like to ask which is the "next step" from basic HTML in order to utilize a common page template or "include files", and easier techniques for more advanced formatting ;) Thanks. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. html, xhtml1, xhtml11 DATE: 17-Apr-06 12:15:56 HOST: sverige Hi. Since we're on this subject, I'd like to ask which is the "next step" from basic HTML in order to utilize a common page template or "include files", and easier techniques for more advanced formatting ;) Thanks. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. html, xhtml1, xhtml11 DATE: 17-Apr-06 16:08:21 HOST: sverige "server side include" <-- thank you!, rbigelo. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. html, xhtml1, xhtml11 DATE: 17-Apr-06 16:08:21 HOST: sverige "server side include" <-- thank you!, rbigelo. ..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. How many hits do you get? DATE: 30-Dec-05 15:31:49 HOST: sverige I'd be interested in the code as a learning venture, having not trekked into awkland yet. You did it all without sed ? [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. How many hits do you get? DATE: 30-Dec-05 15:31:49 HOST: sverige I'd be interested in the code as a learning venture, having not trekked into awkland yet. You did it all without sed ? TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. How many hits do you get? DATE: 31-Dec-05 01:19:31 HOST: sverige Hi. Regarding the specific issue of smj's logfile proposal: -- I'm not here for the webhosting; others will care more. -- User logs should definitely be counted in their tweaked quota. -- Error logs are as important as transfer logs. -- SDF operations and continuation are more important than individual user benefits. The call for discussion has however prompted me to consider, and to speak about, other more general matters for SDF, which should more properly be conveyed in bboard:ARPA I expect, and I may get around to posting there, but here's an outline: -- User weblogs hardly seems like a membership level; in the big picture, they could be incorporated into TWEAK, or into META, or SDF could conceive a menu of ala-carte options available to different membership levels, similar to (extension of) current DBA . The structure of SDF membership levels and service offerings merits its own consideration and discussion. -- Privacy considerations: I cherish privacy, and I enjoy community. SDF has been a community project, and even a year ago there was no more privacy than user applied permissions. There has been a shift this past year, due to abuses. Generally, that's a trend we can probably expect to continue. Securing weblogs is part of that continuing momentum which merits its own consideration and discussion. -- Resource Loading, specifically with regard to NFS and /tmp : Many users, myself included or in particular, are familiar with networking, but not with the loading and impact upon SDF from just using their/our own directory space. Somehow, more education and reminders and helpers etc. may be deployable to help relieve the system loading on NFS. I had to be told, and maybe I can remember, to do disk intensive things in /tmp rather than ~/tmp. What's nice about SDF is that the transitioning from user to member is a continuing process which hasn't stopped yet. Thanks to Stephen for setting it up and maintaining it, and to others here for making it happen. I'm displeased to have offered these seemingly important considerations under a board and topic which bears no relevance to the issues raised. Please do respond and continue these discussions in bboard:ARPA or other more appropriate location. Thank you, --avo [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. How many hits do you get? DATE: 31-Dec-05 01:19:31 HOST: sverige Hi. Regarding the specific issue of smj's logfile proposal: -- I'm not here for the webhosting; others will care more. -- User logs should definitely be counted in their tweaked quota. -- Error logs are as important as transfer logs. -- SDF operations and continuation are more important than individual user benefits. The call for discussion has however prompted me to consider, and to speak about, other more general matters for SDF, which should more properly be conveyed in bboard:ARPA I expect, and I may get around to posting there, but here's an outline: -- User weblogs hardly seems like a membership level; in the big picture, they could be incorporated into TWEAK, or into META, or SDF could conceive a menu of ala-carte options available to different membership levels, similar to (extension of) current DBA . The structure of SDF membership levels and service offerings merits its own consideration and discussion. -- Privacy considerations: I cherish privacy, and I enjoy community. SDF has been a community project, and even a year ago there was no more privacy than user applied permissions. There has been a shift this past year, due to abuses. Generally, that's a trend we can probably expect to continue. Securing weblogs is part of that continuing momentum which merits its own consideration and discussion. -- Resource Loading, specifically with regard to NFS and /tmp : Many users, myself included or in particular, are familiar with networking, but not with the loading and impact upon SDF from just using their/our own directory space. Somehow, more education and reminders and helpers etc. may be deployable to help relieve the system loading on NFS. I had to be told, and maybe I can remember, to do disk intensive things in /tmp rather than ~/tmp. What's nice about SDF is that the transitioning from user to member is a continuing process which hasn't stopped yet. Thanks to Stephen for setting it up and maintaining it, and to others here for making it happen. I'm displeased to have offered these seemingly important considerations under a board and topic which bears no relevance to the issues raised. Please do respond and continue these discussions in bboard:ARPA or other more appropriate location. Thank you, --avo ..TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. getting this thing started .. DATE: 26-Feb-06 13:26:52 HOST: sverige I think you'll find that there are very few corn growers in the U.S. any more, if you can even still call it "corn" (ref. Monsanto) Furthermore, while we all have a fondness for renewable resources, most of them do require responsible care; for instance, not destroying the necessary soils and water supplies. Now, if we could only manage this situation from sense of social responaibility, rather than profit by expoitation, ... [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. getting this thing started .. DATE: 26-Feb-06 13:26:52 HOST: sverige I think you'll find that there are very few corn growers in the U.S. any more, if you can even still call it "corn" (ref. Monsanto) Furthermore, while we all have a fondness for renewable resources, most of them do require responsible care; for instance, not destroying the necessary soils and water supplies. Now, if we could only manage this situation from sense of social responaibility, rather than profit by expoitation, ... TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. getting this thing started .. DATE: 26-Feb-06 21:28:12 HOST: sverige walk, bike, public transit is good for some transportation requirements; and are very otherwise useful and appropriate activities, but are only a teeny part of the total energy equation which also incorporates heat, light, and other electrical uses (tap,tap,tap). [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. getting this thing started .. DATE: 26-Feb-06 21:28:12 HOST: sverige walk, bike, public transit is good for some transportation requirements; and are very otherwise useful and appropriate activities, but are only a teeny part of the total energy equation which also incorporates heat, light, and other electrical uses (tap,tap,tap). TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. getting this thing started .. DATE: 28-Feb-06 12:15:02 HOST: sverige but there's also energy required to plant, harvest, transport, store, and distribute. I suspect that any centralized system will fail due to costs of transportation, storage, and distribution; as well as single point of failure scenarios. All efforts should be made to enable the most number of communities to feed, clothe, and shelter themselves. Until mega-corporations are removed from government, it probably won't happen. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. getting this thing started .. DATE: 28-Feb-06 12:15:02 HOST: sverige but there's also energy required to plant, harvest, transport, store, and distribute. I suspect that any centralized system will fail due to costs of transportation, storage, and distribution; as well as single point of failure scenarios. All efforts should be made to enable the most number of communities to feed, clothe, and shelter themselves. Until mega-corporations are removed from government, it probably won't happen. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. getting this thing started .. DATE: 28-Feb-06 20:35:14 HOST: sverige Oh come on, David! "Decentralized" doesn't mean "individual"! Think in terms of "community". There are no "economies of scale" in a centralized food or water supply far from its consumers; and there's lots to be said for maintaining local control and responsibility over local needs; and there's even more to be said for multiple efforts working to achieve a common goal, rather than monopolizing one process. Though I may have the "even more" order reversed :) [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. getting this thing started .. DATE: 28-Feb-06 20:35:14 HOST: sverige Oh come on, David! "Decentralized" doesn't mean "individual"! Think in terms of "community". There are no "economies of scale" in a centralized food or water supply far from its consumers; and there's lots to be said for maintaining local control and responsibility over local needs; and there's even more to be said for multiple efforts working to achieve a common goal, rather than monopolizing one process. Though I may have the "even more" order reversed :) TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. getting this thing started .. DATE: 28-Feb-06 20:46:35 HOST: sverige The best perspective on the "downside" of wind generation is downwind from a turbine through which the sun is shining, while your visual environment is strobing and your audio enviornment is pulsing to a harmonic "whuump".."whuump".."whuump" (unless you're a bird or a bat or maybe a butterfly) [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. getting this thing started .. DATE: 28-Feb-06 20:46:35 HOST: sverige The best perspective on the "downside" of wind generation is downwind from a turbine through which the sun is shining, while your visual environment is strobing and your audio enviornment is pulsing to a harmonic "whuump".."whuump".."whuump" (unless you're a bird or a bat or maybe a butterfly) TACKER: jgriffit (Jonathan Griffitts) SUBJECT: .. Geothermal DATE: 26-Feb-06 17:45:16 HOST: sdf avoyager (Avo Yager) wrote: > >If there was a decentralized technology by which communities could tap >inner-earth resources (ala geothermal) for conversion into various forms >of civilized energy needs starting with electricity, would it/we eventually >reduce the earth's mass enough so that it would drift into a larger orbit >away from the life-giving Sun and freeze over? Is this an attempt at humor? It makes no sense at all. If you're going to talk about this stuff you need to learn some physics. Why would tapping geothermal heat affect the earth's mass? Also, reducing the mass of the earth in some magical way would not change its orbit. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: jgriffit (Jonathan Griffitts) SUBJECT: .. Geothermal DATE: 26-Feb-06 17:45:16 HOST: sdf avoyager (Avo Yager) wrote: > >If there was a decentralized technology by which communities could tap >inner-earth resources (ala geothermal) for conversion into various forms >of civilized energy needs starting with electricity, would it/we eventually >reduce the earth's mass enough so that it would drift into a larger orbit >away from the life-giving Sun and freeze over? Is this an attempt at humor? It makes no sense at all. If you're going to talk about this stuff you need to learn some physics. Why would tapping geothermal heat affect the earth's mass? Also, reducing the mass of the earth in some magical way would not change its orbit. TACKER: jgriffit (Jonathan Griffitts) SUBJECT: .. Geothermal DATE: 26-Feb-06 17:52:34 HOST: sdf Well, I seem to be disagreeing with everyone today. Might as well continue: avoyager (Avo Yager) wrote: >I think you'll find that there are very few corn growers in the U.S. any >more, if you can even still call it "corn" (ref. Monsanto) You'll have to explain what you mean by this. Are you quibbling with the definition of "corn"? There certainly seem to be a lot of fields of corn (aka maize) visible as one drives across the great plains. The US does something like half the worldwide production of corn. [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: jgriffit (Jonathan Griffitts) SUBJECT: .. Geothermal DATE: 26-Feb-06 17:52:34 HOST: sdf Well, I seem to be disagreeing with everyone today. Might as well continue: avoyager (Avo Yager) wrote: >I think you'll find that there are very few corn growers in the U.S. any >more, if you can even still call it "corn" (ref. Monsanto) You'll have to explain what you mean by this. Are you quibbling with the definition of "corn"? There certainly seem to be a lot of fields of corn (aka maize) visible as one drives across the great plains. The US does something like half the worldwide production of corn. TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Geothermal DATE: 26-Feb-06 18:31:32 HOST: sverige "lots of fields of corn" are owned by the same small handfull of giant agri-businesses, not traditional farmers, and not very many of them. and, yes, genetically modified corn is, um, different; different enough to not be "corn" in much the same way that "slices" are not "cheese". [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Geothermal DATE: 26-Feb-06 18:31:32 HOST: sverige "lots of fields of corn" are owned by the same small handfull of giant agri-businesses, not traditional farmers, and not very many of them. and, yes, genetically modified corn is, um, different; different enough to not be "corn" in much the same way that "slices" are not "cheese". TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Geothermal DATE: 26-Feb-06 18:38:10 HOST: sverige "Why would tapping geothermal heat affect the earth's mass?" I said 'resources'; I did no say 'heat'; as you have observed, the distinction makes a difference. My introduction of this bulletin was to, in part, guide attention toward "the law of unintended consequences". "Also, reducing the mass of the earth in some magical way would not change its orbit." Are you sure of that? Isn't orbit a function of gravity, and gravity a function of mass? [ to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT TACKER: avoyager (Avo Yager) SUBJECT: .. Geothermal DATE: 26-Feb-06 18:38:10 HOST: sverige "Why would tapping geothermal heat affect the earth's mass?" I said 'resources'; I did no say 'heat'; as you have observed, the distinction makes a difference. My introduction of this bulletin was to, in part, guide attention toward "the law of unintended consequences". "Also, reducing the mass of the earth in some magical way would not change its orbit." Are you sure of that? Isn't orbit a function of gravity, and gravity a function of mass? . [OK] Command: % Type (H)ELP for Commands. Command: % Type (H)ELP for Commands. Command: QUIT