S D F - 1  Bulletin Board
================================================================================
BBOARD     POSTS TOPIC
================================================================================
SPACE      [0001] The meek will inherit the earth...
FORSALE    [0003] SDF Marketplace buy/sell/trade
ANONYMOUS  [0019] Anonymous people talking about strange things, anonymously
ARPA       [0014] Member Discussions, Projects and Fun
HELPDESK   [0033] Users Helping Users
REQUESTS   [0025] Software Package Install and Update Requests
GENERAL    [0038] Random Discussions, News and Thoughts
WEB        [0005] Making WWW pages.
GOPHER     [0003] Port 70 - before The Web
SHARED     [0004] Sharing SDF resources responsibly, users respecting users
HUMOR      [0009] It's funny. Laugh.
BITCH      [0010] a bitch board for airing the grievances of everyday life.
BSD        [0007] BSD Discussions and Announcements
MUSIC      [0005] % MUSIC does not exist. -- wtf
GAMES      [0003] Games and Puzzles
UNIX       [0014] UNIX stuff
URBEX      [0003] Urban Exploration
ANNOUNCE   [0004] System Announcements and News
WINDOWS    [0003] By Micro$oft
OBITS      [0003] Obituaries
DSL        [0001] DSL related stuff
UK         [0001] Life in the dodgy islands
MOTD       [0005] MOTD.ORG Web 29.01a in SDF style ;-)
DIALUP     [0002] SDF's TENEX Dialup Service
GOD        [0006] GOD does exist
WARMING    [0003] we must save the earth from global warming!!! you must help
CODING     [0007] Discussions about programming in various languages...
HARDWARE   [0011] Fried Chips and Dip
DISCOVERY  [0005] What did you discover you could do on SDF today?
JOBS       [0002] employment related stuff
POLITICS   [0001] Obama will win in 2008
MAC        [0006] Macs, Mac OS X, & Apple Discussions
PANIC      [0001] the usa is crashing! abandon ship!
ODDQUIRKS  [0003] Your strange and odd quirks...
IPV6       [0000] IPv6 is coming. It's arrival is mandatory.
LOCAL      [0002] Local bboard info
POLLS      [0006] SDFers love polls
COOKING    [0005] Food Overload
INVEST     [0001] Stocks, Bonds, Savings, Mutual Funds and the like
BANKING    [0002] questinos about banks
BOOKCLUB   [0001] SDF Book Club
DOH        [0001] your not so bright moments
CRYPTO     [0001] Cryptography, codes and encryption
LINUX      [0002] Why did the penguin cross the road?
MATH       [0002] Math discussion.
MORSE      [0002] morse code and ham radio operators
MUD        [0001] exit
RELIGION   [0003] Shalom Aleichem
TWENEX     [0001] SDF user contributed software
VPN        [0002] SDF VPN Use and Configuration Discussions

<GENERAL> Command: ARCHIVE

SDF BBOARD Archives

    1994   1995   1996   1997   1998   1999   2000   2001   2002   2003   2004
    2005   2006   2007   2008

Which year? 
You are now in the 2004 archives.

<none> Command: SEARCH (KEYWORD) % Searching on avoyager ..............TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: monitoring 'top'
DATE:    24-Dec-04 01:04:03
HOST:    sverige

  PID USERNAME PRI NICE   SIZE   RES STATE      TIME   WCPU    CPU COMMAND

19659 mrbigjas  72    4  1216K 2536K RUN       28.3H 94.68% 94.68% mutt

something wrong here?


<ARPA.24-Dec-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

.........................TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: Saddam's Primo Bunker
DATE:    09-Nov-04 16:33:42
HOST:    sverige

Remember during the early days of the 2003 invasion of Iraq, there was talk 
and articles about a scookum bunker for Saddam. One of the U.S. news 
weeklys had a whole spread with maps, layouts, credits to the architect or 
engineer or builder who participated in the project.

I haven't detected that anybody has ever found this thing. Any clues or 
ideas?

<GENERAL.09-Nov-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: Saddam's Primo Bunker
DATE:    09-Nov-04 16:33:42
HOST:    sverige

Remember during the early days of the 2003 invasion of Iraq, there was talk 
and articles about a scookum bunker for Saddam. One of the U.S. news 
weeklys had a whole spread with maps, layouts, credits to the architect or 
engineer or builder who participated in the project.

I haven't detected that anybody has ever found this thing. Any clues or 
ideas?

...TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: SDF Shirts on SlashDot
DATE:    15-Jul-04 13:38:20
HOST:    sdf

http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/07/14/159237


<GENERAL.15-Jul-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: SDF Shirts on SlashDot
DATE:    15-Jul-04 13:38:20
HOST:    sdf

http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/07/14/159237


..................TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: stray processes
DATE:    08-Dec-04 14:45:00
HOST:    sverige

When I log onto sverige, and this happens only on sverige, I 
see more processes running than I expect; and 'kill <pid>' does not kill 
them.

$ ps
  PID TT STAT    TIME COMMAND
18323 p4 IWs+ 0:00.00 /usr/pkg/bin/bash
29176 pd Ss   0:00.03 -bash
29582 pd R+   0:00.00 ps
 5006 q7 IWs+ 0:00.00 /usr/pkg/bin/bash
 6173 qd IWs+ 0:00.00 /usr/pkg/bin/bash
26097 pV IWs+ 0:00.00 /usr/pkg/bin/bash
$

This seems wrong. Can somebody explain it please?

Thanks.


<HELP.08-Dec-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: stray processes
DATE:    08-Dec-04 14:45:00
HOST:    sverige

When I log onto sverige, and this happens only on sverige, I 
see more processes running than I expect; and 'kill <pid>' does not kill 
them.

$ ps
  PID TT STAT    TIME COMMAND
18323 p4 IWs+ 0:00.00 /usr/pkg/bin/bash
29176 pd Ss   0:00.03 -bash
29582 pd R+   0:00.00 ps
 5006 q7 IWs+ 0:00.00 /usr/pkg/bin/bash
 6173 qd IWs+ 0:00.00 /usr/pkg/bin/bash
26097 pV IWs+ 0:00.00 /usr/pkg/bin/bash
$

This seems wrong. Can somebody explain it please?

Thanks.


.......TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: terminal colors
DATE:    21-Aug-04 20:59:21
HOST:    sverige

'man' displays some important words in bright white; some in blue, possibly 
bright, foreground, against black background.

I need to change the [bright] blue to anything else because I can't see it 
against the black.

Is there a permanent way to accomplish this other than using TERM=mono ?

<HELP.21-Aug-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: terminal colors
DATE:    21-Aug-04 20:59:21
HOST:    sverige

'man' displays some important words in bright white; some in blue, possibly 
bright, foreground, against black background.

I need to change the [bright] blue to anything else because I can't see it 
against the black.

Is there a permanent way to accomplish this other than using TERM=mono ?

..................................TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: Theology
DATE:    19-Nov-04 14:24:48
HOST:    sverige

For those uncomfortable with "God" and "Bible", or the various institutions 
which claim some religiosity or even spirituality, I offer... not as 
scientific definitions, but for consideration and discussion ...

Theology is that component of human existence through which the individual 
interacts with, or understands, his inner soul or spirit.

Philosophy is that component by which we interact with, or understand, the 
collection of human society, our social experience.

Psychology is that component by which we interact with our natural and 
physical selves.

In this view, we all do have some theology, whether we're conscious of it 
or not; just as we also have operative psychology and philosophy, no matter 
how little we understand it.

If we posit the existence of personal soul or spirit, we can proceed to 
develop a personal theology which may or may not incorporate, or endorse, 
any specific organized religious institution.

I think what happens, especially with what is seen and known as 
"fundamentalist" religions, is that individuals buy into the doctrine 
without giving the matter a whole lot of thought. This happens in part due 
to a long history of religions, especially the Catholics but also 
Protestants, teaching that God and religion are matters of "faith" which 
are not comprehensible by human minds.

Intellectuals don't have to agree with that dim assessment.

<RELIGION.19-Nov-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: Theology
DATE:    19-Nov-04 14:24:48
HOST:    sverige

For those uncomfortable with "God" and "Bible", or the various institutions 
which claim some religiosity or even spirituality, I offer... not as 
scientific definitions, but for consideration and discussion ...

Theology is that component of human existence through which the individual 
interacts with, or understands, his inner soul or spirit.

Philosophy is that component by which we interact with, or understand, the 
collection of human society, our social experience.

Psychology is that component by which we interact with our natural and 
physical selves.

In this view, we all do have some theology, whether we're conscious of it 
or not; just as we also have operative psychology and philosophy, no matter 
how little we understand it.

If we posit the existence of personal soul or spirit, we can proceed to 
develop a personal theology which may or may not incorporate, or endorse, 
any specific organized religious institution.

I think what happens, especially with what is seen and known as 
"fundamentalist" religions, is that individuals buy into the doctrine 
without giving the matter a whole lot of thought. This happens in part due 
to a long history of religions, especially the Catholics but also 
Protestants, teaching that God and religion are matters of "faith" which 
are not comprehensible by human minds.

Intellectuals don't have to agree with that dim assessment.

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: Defining GOD
DATE:    19-Nov-04 14:35:35
HOST:    sverige

First, let's un-define GOD, and for that matter the Bible, and ...

1. acknowlege that love and wisdom do exist in the human experience;
2. that love and wisdom exist in degrees of quality; negative love being 
hate, negative wisdom being stupidity;
3. that love and wisdom can be of such excellent quality as to be perfect.

So, if we enjoy feeling love, and feeling loved; and we enjoy hearing 
wisdom, and expressing wisdom .... and we envision all those times when 
we're going about our own business when ...

... all of a sudden, .... WHAM! an idea shows up, uninvited.

Wouldn't it be nice if those ideas were good ideas, and true ideas or 
answers; 

rather than they be bad ideas, and wrong answers.

Psychology and Philosophy don't address these considerations. Theology 
does; with or without your acknowledgement of GOD and/or Bible.

In sum however, folks who go looking for the soul, either discover GOD or 
just quit looking.

Reasonable?

<RELIGION.19-Nov-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: Defining GOD
DATE:    19-Nov-04 14:35:35
HOST:    sverige

First, let's un-define GOD, and for that matter the Bible, and ...

1. acknowlege that love and wisdom do exist in the human experience;
2. that love and wisdom exist in degrees of quality; negative love being 
hate, negative wisdom being stupidity;
3. that love and wisdom can be of such excellent quality as to be perfect.

So, if we enjoy feeling love, and feeling loved; and we enjoy hearing 
wisdom, and expressing wisdom .... and we envision all those times when 
we're going about our own business when ...

... all of a sudden, .... WHAM! an idea shows up, uninvited.

Wouldn't it be nice if those ideas were good ideas, and true ideas or 
answers; 

rather than they be bad ideas, and wrong answers.

Psychology and Philosophy don't address these considerations. Theology 
does; with or without your acknowledgement of GOD and/or Bible.

In sum however, folks who go looking for the soul, either discover GOD or 
just quit looking.

Reasonable?

..................TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: War IS Terrorism
DATE:    29-Nov-04 21:48:10
HOST:    sverige

no excuses

<WAR.29-Nov-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: War IS Terrorism
DATE:    29-Nov-04 21:48:10
HOST:    sverige

no excuses

.TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .htaccess
DATE:    08-Dec-04 14:26:41
HOST:    sverige

Hi.

I observe that the following directives are not operational:

IndexOptions ScanHTMLTitles
HeaderName HEADER
ReadmeName README

At the time when Roulette was implemented, the last two did work properly.

--Avo

<WEB.08-Dec-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .htaccess
DATE:    08-Dec-04 14:26:41
HOST:    sverige

Hi.

I observe that the following directives are not operational:

IndexOptions ScanHTMLTitles
HeaderName HEADER
ReadmeName README

At the time when Roulette was implemented, the last two did work properly.

--Avo

.....TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. Do you use alternative medicine?
DATE:    15-Jul-04 14:40:43
HOST:    sdf

I use beer and peanuts. Is that "alternative"?

;-}

<ALTMED.15-Jul-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. Do you use alternative medicine?
DATE:    15-Jul-04 14:40:43
HOST:    sdf

I use beer and peanuts. Is that "alternative"?

;-}

.....................................................TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. New MetaARPA member feature
DATE:    04-Nov-04 04:49:23
HOST:    sverige

Optional features are always nice. You have described what is known in some 
circles as a "challenge/response system", which I personally will not 
implement; nor do I participate in them as a sender. Everybody's email 
requirements, and spam tolerances, are different however.

I'd rather first see a clarification, and debugging, of the vmail domain 
operations for MetaARPA members. My tests have been inconclusive; sometimes 
user@vmail.tld works; sometimes any@user.vmail.tld works; sometimes both; 
sometimes neither.

If you'll clarify the intent, I'll participate in the debugging.

Thanks!

<ARPA.04-Nov-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. New MetaARPA member feature
DATE:    04-Nov-04 04:49:23
HOST:    sverige

Optional features are always nice. You have described what is known in some 
circles as a "challenge/response system", which I personally will not 
implement; nor do I participate in them as a sender. Everybody's email 
requirements, and spam tolerances, are different however.

I'd rather first see a clarification, and debugging, of the vmail domain 
operations for MetaARPA members. My tests have been inconclusive; sometimes 
user@vmail.tld works; sometimes any@user.vmail.tld works; sometimes both; 
sometimes neither.

If you'll clarify the intent, I'll participate in the debugging.

Thanks!

.TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. Charter MetaARPA members are dropping ..
DATE:    10-Aug-04 22:51:53
HOST:    sdf

I don't think that PBS was responsible for dropping the best show of the 
century. And I don't think that BBC was responsible either. They probably 
just ran out of steam, or hum; but I miss it and would purchase the entire 
boxed set on DVD in a heartbeat.

Which ought to be worth $36/yr to SDF, now that my wife is happier.

Thanks!

<ARPA.10-Aug-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. Charter MetaARPA members are dropping ..
DATE:    10-Aug-04 22:51:53
HOST:    sdf

I don't think that PBS was responsible for dropping the best show of the 
century. And I don't think that BBC was responsible either. They probably 
just ran out of steam, or hum; but I miss it and would purchase the entire 
boxed set on DVD in a heartbeat.

Which ought to be worth $36/yr to SDF, now that my wife is happier.

Thanks!

............TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. Considering a new MetaARPA feature ..
DATE:    16-Oct-04 17:39:15
HOST:    sverige

apache does not require an index.html file to display a directory; an 
indexing module may be required for this.

I think the question has become, "once a transfer has been initiated, why 
would ftp be preferable to http?"

would wget show a difference in overall xfer time of a large file?

<ARPA.16-Oct-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. Considering a new MetaARPA feature ..
DATE:    16-Oct-04 17:39:15
HOST:    sverige

apache does not require an index.html file to display a directory; an 
indexing module may be required for this.

I think the question has become, "once a transfer has been initiated, why 
would ftp be preferable to http?"

would wget show a difference in overall xfer time of a large file?

...TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. Squirrel Mail Arpa Membership vote
DATE:    17-Jul-04 23:14:07
HOST:    sdf

wouldn't a proper shell activity be to set up a symlink or cron so that 
http access to your web space here, user:pass authenticated directory, 
access to the mail somehow?

maybe a cgi using 'mail' ?

For email, and security, services, but no shell, I can recommend cotse.net

Peace,

<ARPA.17-Jul-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. Squirrel Mail Arpa Membership vote
DATE:    17-Jul-04 23:14:07
HOST:    sdf

wouldn't a proper shell activity be to set up a symlink or cron so that 
http access to your web space here, user:pass authenticated directory, 
access to the mail somehow?

maybe a cgi using 'mail' ?

For email, and security, services, but no shell, I can recommend cotse.net

Peace,

....TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Bloging for Arpa members
DATE:    20-Nov-04 23:42:37
HOST:    sverige

regarding manual or template html coding, ...

Putting content within a <pre>...</pre> block has the disadvantage of not 
honoring the line length of the viewer's browser.

I prefer using <p> codes to create a pair of linefeeds to start a new 
paragraph. Closing </p> markup is not required.

Within <body> ...

<p>very long paragraph.
<p>second very long paragrpah is separated from the prior by a blank line.

</body>

<ARPA.20-Nov-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Bloging for Arpa members
DATE:    20-Nov-04 23:42:37
HOST:    sverige

regarding manual or template html coding, ...

Putting content within a <pre>...</pre> block has the disadvantage of not 
honoring the line length of the viewer's browser.

I prefer using <p> codes to create a pair of linefeeds to start a new 
paragraph. Closing </p> markup is not required.

Within <body> ...

<p>very long paragraph.
<p>second very long paragrpah is separated from the prior by a blank line.

</body>

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Bloging for Arpa members
DATE:    21-Nov-04 04:49:42
HOST:    sverige

Robert, a fixed line lingth, of any FIXED length, does not gracefully 
accomodate users who use other line lengths, be they longer or shorter, for 
whatever of several different possible reasons.

Sending 72 character lines may be an acceptable norm for email, and maybe 
usenet, but html was designed to remove that restriction and to allow 
readers to use huge or tiny fonts, any screen resolution which works for 
their eyesight and hardware, and any window size which suits their desktop 
or console.

You can demonstrate this for yourself by many easy methods. Many websites 
are fixed to 800 pixel width. View them at greater and smaller resolutions.

<ARPA.21-Nov-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Bloging for Arpa members
DATE:    21-Nov-04 04:49:42
HOST:    sverige

Robert, a fixed line lingth, of any FIXED length, does not gracefully 
accomodate users who use other line lengths, be they longer or shorter, for 
whatever of several different possible reasons.

Sending 72 character lines may be an acceptable norm for email, and maybe 
usenet, but html was designed to remove that restriction and to allow 
readers to use huge or tiny fonts, any screen resolution which works for 
their eyesight and hardware, and any window size which suits their desktop 
or console.

You can demonstrate this for yourself by many easy methods. Many websites 
are fixed to 800 pixel width. View them at greater and smaller resolutions.

....TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. IE, netscape and other browsers
DATE:    20-Aug-04 02:14:46
HOST:    otaku

If you have to use Microsoft operating system, at least throw away 
Microsoft browsers and email clients. Those two products are almost solely 
responsible for Internet security troubles.

Please use Mozilla or Firefox browsers from mozilla.org
and ANY non-MS email client.

You and your local network will not only be safer, you'll be much happier.


<ARPA.20-Aug-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. IE, netscape and other browsers
DATE:    20-Aug-04 02:14:46
HOST:    otaku

If you have to use Microsoft operating system, at least throw away 
Microsoft browsers and email clients. Those two products are almost solely 
responsible for Internet security troubles.

Please use Mozilla or Firefox browsers from mozilla.org
and ANY non-MS email client.

You and your local network will not only be safer, you'll be much happier.


..............TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Not just Meta-ARPA...
DATE:    05-Nov-04 14:03:23
HOST:    sverige

It was said with reference to lifetime ARPA membership that "so, the user 
sees no reason to give SDF more money, since s/he's getting all s/he 
needs/wants."

The fault in this conclusion is that without continuing support, the 
"lifetime" membership will be short indeed. ARPA members who want to still 
be ARPA members of a healthy service should see the *nned* to become 
meta_ARPA and contribute happily.

At some point in time, ARPA memberships may no longer be offered, but 
existing ARPA members may then receive semi-substantial discounts on new or 
improved services, while Meta-ARPA members receive clearly-substantial 
discounts on the same services.

For example, hosting, webmail, tunnels, an http proxy, and more; even 
faster servers, more bandwidth, more storage, more features. With this 
model, ARPA and even moreso Meta-ARPA can be seen as long term investments.

The folks who participated in the early development and sustainance of the 
system have earned a certain respect and discount, to be happily paid by 
new users.

Cheers,

<ARPA.05-Nov-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Not just Meta-ARPA...
DATE:    05-Nov-04 14:03:23
HOST:    sverige

It was said with reference to lifetime ARPA membership that "so, the user 
sees no reason to give SDF more money, since s/he's getting all s/he 
needs/wants."

The fault in this conclusion is that without continuing support, the 
"lifetime" membership will be short indeed. ARPA members who want to still 
be ARPA members of a healthy service should see the *nned* to become 
meta_ARPA and contribute happily.

At some point in time, ARPA memberships may no longer be offered, but 
existing ARPA members may then receive semi-substantial discounts on new or 
improved services, while Meta-ARPA members receive clearly-substantial 
discounts on the same services.

For example, hosting, webmail, tunnels, an http proxy, and more; even 
faster servers, more bandwidth, more storage, more features. With this 
model, ARPA and even moreso Meta-ARPA can be seen as long term investments.

The folks who participated in the early development and sustainance of the 
system have earned a certain respect and discount, to be happily paid by 
new users.

Cheers,

.TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. dnetc?
DATE:    31-Dec-04 01:34:50
HOST:    sverige

2 comments ...

1. "So why don't you guys get on 'twkm's case for running 'irssi' 24/7?"

I've been noticing that activity for days/weeks now. It may be 24/7, but I 
don't see it hogging CPU. It may be persistent, but it appears to be low 
impact. I do wonder what it is however ;-}

2. If anybody here doesn't clearly understand what a distributed network 
is, then you should look it up. Client applications of distributed networks 
have no business running on SDF or any other public shared servers.

--Cheers/2!

<ARPA.31-Dec-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. dnetc?
DATE:    31-Dec-04 01:34:50
HOST:    sverige

2 comments ...

1. "So why don't you guys get on 'twkm's case for running 'irssi' 24/7?"

I've been noticing that activity for days/weeks now. It may be 24/7, but I 
don't see it hogging CPU. It may be persistent, but it appears to be low 
impact. I do wonder what it is however ;-}

2. If anybody here doesn't clearly understand what a distributed network 
is, then you should look it up. Client applications of distributed networks 
have no business running on SDF or any other public shared servers.

--Cheers/2!

.TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. screen exiting, killing connection
DATE:    30-Nov-04 12:49:52
HOST:    sverige

It's possible that 'screen' runs properly only for MetaARPA memberships, 
and/or possibly only on sverige.

I never had it kill my tunnel; but I have had it quit on me when logged in 
on other hosts, IIRC.

<ARPA.30-Nov-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. screen exiting, killing connection
DATE:    30-Nov-04 12:49:52
HOST:    sverige

It's possible that 'screen' runs properly only for MetaARPA memberships, 
and/or possibly only on sverige.

I never had it kill my tunnel; but I have had it quit on me when logged in 
on other hosts, IIRC.

.TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: regarding .. Patrick Kroupa?
DATE:    20-Mar-04 12:00:40
HOST:    sdf

Jason Scott, who runs textfiles.com, started a venture to make a film 
documentary of BBS. See more of that project at bbsdocumentary.com

<BBS.20-Mar-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: regarding .. Patrick Kroupa?
DATE:    20-Mar-04 12:00:40
HOST:    sdf

Jason Scott, who runs textfiles.com, started a venture to make a film 
documentary of BBS. See more of that project at bbsdocumentary.com

.........TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. BUSH wins!
DATE:    20-Nov-04 22:20:34
HOST:    sverige

There are over 200 million eligible voters in the United States. Barely 
only one quarter of them supported Bush in the last sham of an election.

a measley 27% is all the support he could muster.




<BITCH.20-Nov-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. BUSH wins!
DATE:    20-Nov-04 22:20:34
HOST:    sverige

There are over 200 million eligible voters in the United States. Barely 
only one quarter of them supported Bush in the last sham of an election.

a measley 27% is all the support he could muster.




......TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. weatherbug
DATE:    16-Oct-04 17:24:56
HOST:    sverige

This announcement is more important than just to this discussion, but it is 
applicable here.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/terrorism/story/0,12780,1327904,00.html

The new Dept. of Homeland Security has inserted itself into the National 
Weather Service, including Weather Radio. You'll now receive the Ashcroft 
terror alerts on your weather radio, and NWS could not stop it. 

For U.S. weather, http://www.wunderground.com/ is quite complete, much less 
intrusive, and has quite an honorable background.


<BITCH.16-Oct-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. weatherbug
DATE:    16-Oct-04 17:24:56
HOST:    sverige

This announcement is more important than just to this discussion, but it is 
applicable here.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/terrorism/story/0,12780,1327904,00.html

The new Dept. of Homeland Security has inserted itself into the National 
Weather Service, including Weather Radio. You'll now receive the Ashcroft 
terror alerts on your weather radio, and NWS could not stop it. 

For U.S. weather, http://www.wunderground.com/ is quite complete, much less 
intrusive, and has quite an honorable background.


TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. weatherbug
DATE:    18-Oct-04 04:04:03
HOST:    sverige

The Guardian has nothing to do with it. Look it up on the BBC site, or 
http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=The_Power_of_Nightmares


<BITCH.18-Oct-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. weatherbug
DATE:    18-Oct-04 04:04:03
HOST:    sverige

The Guardian has nothing to do with it. Look it up on the BBC site, or 
http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=The_Power_of_Nightmares


...TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. INTERWEB BAD! FIRE GOOD!
DATE:    18-Dec-04 19:10:09
HOST:    sverige

>>For me the internet is

I recommend the streaming radio if your connection is up to it; music or 
talk, there's LOTS of really great stuff available.

<BITCH.18-Dec-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. INTERWEB BAD! FIRE GOOD!
DATE:    18-Dec-04 19:10:09
HOST:    sverige

>>For me the internet is

I recommend the streaming radio if your connection is up to it; music or 
talk, there's LOTS of really great stuff available.

...TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Restrict
DATE:    20-Dec-04 20:53:46
HOST:    sverige

Alexy, either you have very limited experience in America, or you have been 
fully propagandized by complete and utter bullshit. 


<BITCH.20-Dec-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Restrict
DATE:    20-Dec-04 20:53:46
HOST:    sverige

Alexy, either you have very limited experience in America, or you have been 
fully propagandized by complete and utter bullshit. 


TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Restrict
DATE:    20-Dec-04 21:08:23
HOST:    sverige

Alexy, thanks for the clarification, if not for the trolling.

As to the stupidity levels evidenced by retail and tech support, I'm not 
going to comment at all ;-}

<BITCH.20-Dec-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Restrict
DATE:    20-Dec-04 21:08:23
HOST:    sverige

Alexy, thanks for the clarification, if not for the trolling.

As to the stupidity levels evidenced by retail and tech support, I'm not 
going to comment at all ;-}

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Restrict
DATE:    22-Dec-04 13:43:43
HOST:    sverige

It was unconstitutional for Congress to pass the War Powers Act 
transferring the responsibility for declaring war (Iraq) from Congress to 
the Executive. 

<BITCH.22-Dec-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Restrict
DATE:    22-Dec-04 13:43:43
HOST:    sverige

It was unconstitutional for Congress to pass the War Powers Act 
transferring the responsibility for declaring war (Iraq) from Congress to 
the Executive. 

..TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. waiting
DATE:    20-Nov-04 23:24:54
HOST:    sverige

friend, you judge too harshly, and too rapidly, perhaps

<BITCH.20-Nov-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. waiting
DATE:    20-Nov-04 23:24:54
HOST:    sverige

friend, you judge too harshly, and too rapidly, perhaps

....TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. COM bitchiness
DATE:    24-Aug-04 14:03:58
HOST:    sverige

furthermore, it's worth remembering that
-all the skids think they're not;
-most folks ARE arrogant and like to belittle others;
-even terminal failures such as GWB can draw a crowd, and more!
-it's a good thing that we are all different;
-there ARE people willing to help.

Peace,

<BITCH.24-Aug-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. COM bitchiness
DATE:    24-Aug-04 14:03:58
HOST:    sverige

furthermore, it's worth remembering that
-all the skids think they're not;
-most folks ARE arrogant and like to belittle others;
-even terminal failures such as GWB can draw a crowd, and more!
-it's a good thing that we are all different;
-there ARE people willing to help.

Peace,

TACKER:  assjack (dude dudeus)
SUBJECT: .. COM bitchiness
DATE:    24-Aug-04 21:40:00
HOST:    sdf

well, someone messed with my post(s) probably SMJ. Maybe I did something 
wrong or pissed him off...or maybe he was just bored...but whatever :)

corster: I havent really been using my accounts a whole lot...sure login 
once or twice randomly for no reason every month or so, but thats pretty 
much it. Well, since I've been on soo much lately, I thought to myself, I 
says,"Well, maybe I should make a 'donation,' plus I get all those cool 
advanteges in com!" So first I took a dollar out of my wallet and taped it 
to my computer screen so I dont forget, then the next day, found an envelope 
(DO YOU GUYS KNOW HOW HARD IT IS TO FIND ONE OF THOSE THINGS?) And then I 
folded a paper for the dollar to go in (likewise, its impossible to make a 
perfect fold) and stuck that in the envelope....well, now I simply must 
find a stamp, and that will be no easy task, but sooner or later...you can 
count on that dollar SMJ ;)

Vandahm: 
*Everyone (or most anyway) in com respect me and rescently people have been 
calling me AJ
*People who should know my name, already know it! Its Jason, incase you're 
really, really curious 
*As for validation, already went over that, scroll up ^

avoyager: I agree, there are plent of people in com, willing to help and to 
name a few nice guys: micahb, wliao, mssitig, anime, and warjaw (well not 
so much jaw...we just play netris a lot), and many more :D

plewylli: hope your head feels better 8) Yes my other accounts are ctrl, 
and when you say 'sr' I think its sr71 or something I dont really remember 
its...been a while....and a few joke accounts for com

hapi: your the coolest ^_^
you couldent be more right about everything...
<assjack bows down to hapiworm>

mackle: hehehehe ... :D Lets hope someone doesnt do that to me

<BITCH.24-Aug-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  assjack (dude dudeus)
SUBJECT: .. COM bitchiness
DATE:    24-Aug-04 21:40:00
HOST:    sdf

well, someone messed with my post(s) probably SMJ. Maybe I did something 
wrong or pissed him off...or maybe he was just bored...but whatever :)

corster: I havent really been using my accounts a whole lot...sure login 
once or twice randomly for no reason every month or so, but thats pretty 
much it. Well, since I've been on soo much lately, I thought to myself, I 
says,"Well, maybe I should make a 'donation,' plus I get all those cool 
advanteges in com!" So first I took a dollar out of my wallet and taped it 
to my computer screen so I dont forget, then the next day, found an envelope 
(DO YOU GUYS KNOW HOW HARD IT IS TO FIND ONE OF THOSE THINGS?) And then I 
folded a paper for the dollar to go in (likewise, its impossible to make a 
perfect fold) and stuck that in the envelope....well, now I simply must 
find a stamp, and that will be no easy task, but sooner or later...you can 
count on that dollar SMJ ;)

Vandahm: 
*Everyone (or most anyway) in com respect me and rescently people have been 
calling me AJ
*People who should know my name, already know it! Its Jason, incase you're 
really, really curious 
*As for validation, already went over that, scroll up ^

avoyager: I agree, there are plent of people in com, willing to help and to 
name a few nice guys: micahb, wliao, mssitig, anime, and warjaw (well not 
so much jaw...we just play netris a lot), and many more :D

plewylli: hope your head feels better 8) Yes my other accounts are ctrl, 
and when you say 'sr' I think its sr71 or something I dont really remember 
its...been a while....and a few joke accounts for com

hapi: your the coolest ^_^
you couldent be more right about everything...
<assjack bows down to hapiworm>

mackle: hehehehe ... :D Lets hope someone doesnt do that to me

.TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. Outlook banned?
DATE:    01-Oct-04 01:37:33
HOST:    sverige

No. I was referring to the insecure network on YOUR side of the nearest 
competent firewall/router/gateway; not the whole wide universe.


<BITCH.01-Oct-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. Outlook banned?
DATE:    01-Oct-04 01:37:33
HOST:    sverige

No. I was referring to the insecure network on YOUR side of the nearest 
competent firewall/router/gateway; not the whole wide universe.


TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. Outlook banned?
DATE:    26-Sep-04 21:14:14
HOST:    otaku

A most irritating third kind of spam is that which is reflected by mail 
servers which aren't capable of deciding whether or not it will/can deliver 
the mail before accepting it.

<BITCH.26-Sep-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. Outlook banned?
DATE:    26-Sep-04 21:14:14
HOST:    otaku

A most irritating third kind of spam is that which is reflected by mail 
servers which aren't capable of deciding whether or not it will/can deliver 
the mail before accepting it.

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. Outlook banned?
DATE:    26-Sep-04 21:23:09
HOST:    otaku

... or, more to the point, determining to not accept the mail, and leave it 
in the outbound queue of the spamming system, where it f***ng belongs.


<BITCH.26-Sep-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. Outlook banned?
DATE:    26-Sep-04 21:23:09
HOST:    otaku

... or, more to the point, determining to not accept the mail, and leave it 
in the outbound queue of the spamming system, where it f***ng belongs.


.TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. Outlook banned?
DATE:    30-Sep-04 11:58:52
HOST:    sverige

Another declaration from GeorgeLand, where it's a lot like America, but 
nicer.

All those fancy new viruses which have their own smtp engines, and scan 
files *in_addition_to* Outlook addres book for email addresses, didn't gain 
access to and start runnin on the infected system by way of floppy disk; 
they entered by way of .....

... you get two guesses, and they're both right, and they're both from 
redmond.

<BITCH.30-Sep-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. Outlook banned?
DATE:    30-Sep-04 11:58:52
HOST:    sverige

Another declaration from GeorgeLand, where it's a lot like America, but 
nicer.

All those fancy new viruses which have their own smtp engines, and scan 
files *in_addition_to* Outlook addres book for email addresses, didn't gain 
access to and start runnin on the infected system by way of floppy disk; 
they entered by way of .....

... you get two guesses, and they're both right, and they're both from 
redmond.

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. Outlook banned?
DATE:    30-Sep-04 16:06:09
HOST:    sverige

no, silly; via Outlook and Internet Explorer, both of which, sad truth to 
bear, are insecure and tied too closely to a vulnerable operating system.

remove them, and become virus free, except vulnerable to other systems on 
your insecure network which still use those products.

Hell, I've had my dear ol' dad on a win'95 system direct to a DSL 
connection (no firewall) for almost three years now and not infected or 
compromised, just by removing those two softwares, and disabling netbios 
over tcp.


<BITCH.30-Sep-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. Outlook banned?
DATE:    30-Sep-04 16:06:09
HOST:    sverige

no, silly; via Outlook and Internet Explorer, both of which, sad truth to 
bear, are insecure and tied too closely to a vulnerable operating system.

remove them, and become virus free, except vulnerable to other systems on 
your insecure network which still use those products.

Hell, I've had my dear ol' dad on a win'95 system direct to a DSL 
connection (no firewall) for almost three years now and not infected or 
compromised, just by removing those two softwares, and disabling netbios 
over tcp.


.....................TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. atari, sinclair, apple
DATE:    31-Dec-04 01:50:14
HOST:    sverige

Hallo there Marten!

I have a ColorComputer setup (boxed in storage). It is certainly Motorola 
6809. I was writing software application for it (native ROM BASIC), and 
needed assembly language for printer output (star charts).  I dust it off 
every few years since. I have (I think still) external diskette drive, many 
plugin cassettes, complete office suite software, monitor interface, more 
dust, and good manuals. It was a very excellent package for its day.

My only two other collections are vinyl LPs (which I'm disposing of in 
January), and Hewlett-Packard HP-IL devices which are *almost* interfaced 
with the CoCo/2 ;-}

Peace,
--avo

<CLASSIC.31-Dec-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. atari, sinclair, apple
DATE:    31-Dec-04 01:50:14
HOST:    sverige

Hallo there Marten!

I have a ColorComputer setup (boxed in storage). It is certainly Motorola 
6809. I was writing software application for it (native ROM BASIC), and 
needed assembly language for printer output (star charts).  I dust it off 
every few years since. I have (I think still) external diskette drive, many 
plugin cassettes, complete office suite software, monitor interface, more 
dust, and good manuals. It was a very excellent package for its day.

My only two other collections are vinyl LPs (which I'm disposing of in 
January), and Hewlett-Packard HP-IL devices which are *almost* interfaced 
with the CoCo/2 ;-}

Peace,
--avo

..........................TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. current favourites?
DATE:    12-Nov-04 11:58:53
HOST:    sverige

"The Secret of Santa Vittoria" with Anthony Quinn as 'Bombolini' the town 
drunk who saves all their wine from the Nazis. With the Nazis known to be 
coming, for the wine, the local government of Santa Vittoria fled, leaving 
a vacancy which  nobody else would fill. Bombolini rose to the occasion 
marvelously.

"Hopscotch" with Walter Matthau keeping one step ahead of the CIA

<FILM.12-Nov-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. current favourites?
DATE:    12-Nov-04 11:58:53
HOST:    sverige

"The Secret of Santa Vittoria" with Anthony Quinn as 'Bombolini' the town 
drunk who saves all their wine from the Nazis. With the Nazis known to be 
coming, for the wine, the local government of Santa Vittoria fled, leaving 
a vacancy which  nobody else would fill. Bombolini rose to the occasion 
marvelously.

"Hopscotch" with Walter Matthau keeping one step ahead of the CIA

............TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Mock Election Results
DATE:    01-Nov-04 23:53:26
HOST:    sverige

IIRC "none of them" was an option before the third parties were added. I 
for one, did NOT revise my vote.

11% is almost distressingly low turnout here.

<GENERAL.01-Nov-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Mock Election Results
DATE:    01-Nov-04 23:53:26
HOST:    sverige

IIRC "none of them" was an option before the third parties were added. I 
for one, did NOT revise my vote.

11% is almost distressingly low turnout here.

..TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. shaving question
DATE:    02-Nov-04 02:54:04
HOST:    sverige

moisturizing the skin, before attacking it with a blade, is .... kindness.

<GENERAL.02-Nov-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. shaving question
DATE:    02-Nov-04 02:54:04
HOST:    sverige

moisturizing the skin, before attacking it with a blade, is .... kindness.

.TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. I voted
DATE:    04-Nov-04 01:56:36
HOST:    sverige

I hope you wore gloves ;-}

<GENERAL.04-Nov-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. I voted
DATE:    04-Nov-04 01:56:36
HOST:    sverige

I hope you wore gloves ;-}

...TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Canadians and the word "America"
DATE:    04-Nov-04 02:06:21
HOST:    sverige

Steve, 

Sincere resopnses to your concerns may be abundant at, near, and from 
http://www.narconews.com/

Note the logo.

<GENERAL.04-Nov-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Canadians and the word "America"
DATE:    04-Nov-04 02:06:21
HOST:    sverige

Steve, 

Sincere resopnses to your concerns may be abundant at, near, and from 
http://www.narconews.com/

Note the logo.

......................TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Otkau
DATE:    11-Nov-04 00:37:31
HOST:    sverige

other popular solutions of equally questionable value include

-piss on it
and 
-have a beer

For my part, I suspect Stephen was ..er.. joking with otako/you; as have 
been the rest of "there is no 'US'" (TINU,TINW)

Peace,

<GENERAL.11-Nov-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Otkau
DATE:    11-Nov-04 00:37:31
HOST:    sverige

other popular solutions of equally questionable value include

-piss on it
and 
-have a beer

For my part, I suspect Stephen was ..er.. joking with otako/you; as have 
been the rest of "there is no 'US'" (TINU,TINW)

Peace,

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. political swell
DATE:    11-Nov-04 00:30:52
HOST:    sverige

it may have been due to, or in spite of, the impending, now past, but still 
impressive, Jupiter-Venus conjuction in the morning sky everywhere, or not.

;-}


<GENERAL.11-Nov-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. political swell
DATE:    11-Nov-04 00:30:52
HOST:    sverige

it may have been due to, or in spite of, the impending, now past, but still 
impressive, Jupiter-Venus conjuction in the morning sky everywhere, or not.

;-}


...TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. Special offer for NEW ARPA members
DATE:    22-Oct-04 18:12:35
HOST:    sverige

This may not the way you'd design it if you started today; and if I'm wrong 
with what I'm about to say, I trust that somebody will step up and correct 
me.

The first step of membership is life-time membersip, via ARPA, one time 
$36.

From that point you can optionally add on various additional services at 
monthly or annual rates.

In addition to the aforementioned add-on services, ARPA members can gain 
additional features by joining Meta-ARPA at additional $36 annually.

More details are in HELP and/or FAQ.

<GENERAL.22-Oct-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. Special offer for NEW ARPA members
DATE:    22-Oct-04 18:12:35
HOST:    sverige

This may not the way you'd design it if you started today; and if I'm wrong 
with what I'm about to say, I trust that somebody will step up and correct 
me.

The first step of membership is life-time membersip, via ARPA, one time 
$36.

From that point you can optionally add on various additional services at 
monthly or annual rates.

In addition to the aforementioned add-on services, ARPA members can gain 
additional features by joining Meta-ARPA at additional $36 annually.

More details are in HELP and/or FAQ.

....TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Why do women have to be so damn short?
DATE:    14-Nov-04 06:35:05
HOST:    sverige

Some while back ... SciFi channel ... ran an ad ... briefly ...
which said ... nearly ...

"What if anybody who wanted to, ...
... could have sex with YOU? 

<GENERAL.14-Nov-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Why do women have to be so damn short?
DATE:    14-Nov-04 06:35:05
HOST:    sverige

Some while back ... SciFi channel ... ran an ad ... briefly ...
which said ... nearly ...

"What if anybody who wanted to, ...
... could have sex with YOU? 

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Why do women have to be so damn short?
DATE:    16-Nov-04 14:36:55
HOST:    sverige

I've known short men to very much enjoy taller women, especially while 
dancing.

<GENERAL.16-Nov-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Why do women have to be so damn short?
DATE:    16-Nov-04 14:36:55
HOST:    sverige

I've known short men to very much enjoy taller women, especially while 
dancing.

...TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. Next president? Lets take a POLL ..
DATE:    15-Sep-04 00:06:36
HOST:    sverige

Enron/Halliburton'04

<GENERAL.15-Sep-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. Next president? Lets take a POLL ..
DATE:    15-Sep-04 00:06:36
HOST:    sverige

Enron/Halliburton'04

....TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. Kingdomality Test
DATE:    23-Aug-04 19:09:24
HOST:    sverige

25 other tests: http://www.goofiness.com/personality/test/1


<GENERAL.23-Aug-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. Kingdomality Test
DATE:    23-Aug-04 19:09:24
HOST:    sverige

25 other tests: http://www.goofiness.com/personality/test/1


..TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. SDF URL Russian Roulette ..
DATE:    19-Oct-04 12:01:25
HOST:    sverige

very cool project, smj!


<GENERAL.19-Oct-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. SDF URL Russian Roulette ..
DATE:    19-Oct-04 12:01:25
HOST:    sverige

very cool project, smj!


TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. SDF URL Russian Roulette ..
DATE:    19-Oct-04 17:35:00
HOST:    sverige

Re: page/site status; it's available from bottom of the 'help' page; but 
don't use a trailing slash

Re: 'treasure'; what's that?

<GENERAL.19-Oct-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. SDF URL Russian Roulette ..
DATE:    19-Oct-04 17:35:00
HOST:    sverige

Re: page/site status; it's available from bottom of the 'help' page; but 
don't use a trailing slash

Re: 'treasure'; what's that?

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. SDF URL Russian Roulette ..
DATE:    19-Oct-04 17:38:47
HOST:    sverige

s/'help' page/'about' page/
sorry

<GENERAL.19-Oct-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. SDF URL Russian Roulette ..
DATE:    19-Oct-04 17:38:47
HOST:    sverige

s/'help' page/'about' page/
sorry

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. SDF URL Russian Roulette ..
DATE:    19-Oct-04 18:17:07
HOST:    sverige

perhaps the 'random' page should load a new random page after a score is 
registered; would prevent multiple scorings; ease and speed the process; 
allow users to go 'back' if they wanted?

<GENERAL.19-Oct-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. SDF URL Russian Roulette ..
DATE:    19-Oct-04 18:17:07
HOST:    sverige

perhaps the 'random' page should load a new random page after a score is 
registered; would prevent multiple scorings; ease and speed the process; 
allow users to go 'back' if they wanted?

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. SDF URL Russian Roulette ..
DATE:    21-Oct-04 13:20:34
HOST:    sverige

your solution is 'mkhomepg -a'

<GENERAL.21-Oct-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. SDF URL Russian Roulette ..
DATE:    21-Oct-04 13:20:34
HOST:    sverige

your solution is 'mkhomepg -a'

..TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. web accelerator
DATE:    19-Dec-04 20:10:38
HOST:    sverige

and even then only for repeated viewing of the same static pages, and how 
often does THAT happen?

<GENERAL.19-Dec-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. web accelerator
DATE:    19-Dec-04 20:10:38
HOST:    sverige

and even then only for repeated viewing of the same static pages, and how 
often does THAT happen?

..TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. I am 22
DATE:    19-Aug-04 23:16:57
HOST:    sverige

not to offend any Russians, .... but ....

"Nice Driveway!"


<GENERAL.19-Aug-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. I am 22
DATE:    19-Aug-04 23:16:57
HOST:    sverige

not to offend any Russians, .... but ....

"Nice Driveway!"


...TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Snow.
DATE:    20-Dec-04 13:06:35
HOST:    sverige

If it's a rear-wheel drive, put into the trunk a small shovel and a few 
bags of something like kitty litter; first to provide weight upon the 
wheels for traction, and second for to spread under the tires in event you 
get stuck and need more traction.


<GENERAL.20-Dec-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Snow.
DATE:    20-Dec-04 13:06:35
HOST:    sverige

If it's a rear-wheel drive, put into the trunk a small shovel and a few 
bags of something like kitty litter; first to provide weight upon the 
wheels for traction, and second for to spread under the tires in event you 
get stuck and need more traction.


TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Snow.
DATE:    20-Dec-04 21:00:20
HOST:    sverige

just don't slide into a dry spot going sideways

<GENERAL.20-Dec-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Snow.
DATE:    20-Dec-04 21:00:20
HOST:    sverige

just don't slide into a dry spot going sideways

.....................TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. I served in Vietnam (four months)
DATE:    01-Nov-04 23:56:02
HOST:    sverige

Steve, I didn't intend to equate "back door draft" with "the real draft". 
But I am confortable defining it as including the stop loss orders, which 
serve directly and for the sole purpose of avoiding "the real draft" as 
long as possible, at the politically motivated expense of those who have 
already served, which is cause for sadness. Do you have a different 
definition for "back door draft"?

Furthermore, even though the stop loss provision is in the fine print of 
their contracts, it sounds to me as though those who are subject to it are 
being conscripted thereby "against their will".

Thanks for caring, about "the troops".

<GENERAL.01-Nov-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. I served in Vietnam (four months)
DATE:    01-Nov-04 23:56:02
HOST:    sverige

Steve, I didn't intend to equate "back door draft" with "the real draft". 
But I am confortable defining it as including the stop loss orders, which 
serve directly and for the sole purpose of avoiding "the real draft" as 
long as possible, at the politically motivated expense of those who have 
already served, which is cause for sadness. Do you have a different 
definition for "back door draft"?

Furthermore, even though the stop loss provision is in the fine print of 
their contracts, it sounds to me as though those who are subject to it are 
being conscripted thereby "against their will".

Thanks for caring, about "the troops".

TACKER:  rbook (Robert A. Book)
SUBJECT: .. I served in Vietnam (four months)
DATE:    11-Nov-04 16:31:31
HOST:    sverige

Technical correction:  The "stop-loss" orders are active-duty people, not 
reservists.  This might include activative reservists -- I'm not sure, but 
I don't think so.  The idea behind a "stop-loss" order if your term would 
normally be up on date X, but your unit is deployed on that date, they can 
exercise an option to make you stay in until your unit comes home, for 
example.  They can also exercise that option under other circumstances, 
such as they need people in your specialty.

In any case, when you sign up you know there can be a stop-loss order, and 
you agree to give them that option.  If you don't like it, don't sign up.  
No one has to sign up, which why it's not a draft, back-door or otherwise.

About the Kerry/Fonda photos -- avoyager asked for links to the 
fake one and the real one.

Here's the fake one:  

     http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/kerry2.asp

Here's the real one:  

     http://www.washtimes.com/national/20040211-123002-8027r.htm

And here, Jane Fonda is quoted as confirming that both she and John Kerry 
spoke at the same anti-Vietnam rally on Labor Day in 1970:

     http://www.talonnews.com/news/2004/february/0217_fonda_kerry.shtml

<GENERAL.11-Nov-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  rbook (Robert A. Book)
SUBJECT: .. I served in Vietnam (four months)
DATE:    11-Nov-04 16:31:31
HOST:    sverige

Technical correction:  The "stop-loss" orders are active-duty people, not 
reservists.  This might include activative reservists -- I'm not sure, but 
I don't think so.  The idea behind a "stop-loss" order if your term would 
normally be up on date X, but your unit is deployed on that date, they can 
exercise an option to make you stay in until your unit comes home, for 
example.  They can also exercise that option under other circumstances, 
such as they need people in your specialty.

In any case, when you sign up you know there can be a stop-loss order, and 
you agree to give them that option.  If you don't like it, don't sign up.  
No one has to sign up, which why it's not a draft, back-door or otherwise.

About the Kerry/Fonda photos -- avoyager asked for links to the 
fake one and the real one.

Here's the fake one:  

     http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/kerry2.asp

Here's the real one:  

     http://www.washtimes.com/national/20040211-123002-8027r.htm

And here, Jane Fonda is quoted as confirming that both she and John Kerry 
spoke at the same anti-Vietnam rally on Labor Day in 1970:

     http://www.talonnews.com/news/2004/february/0217_fonda_kerry.shtml

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. I served in Vietnam (four months)
DATE:    28-Oct-04 23:04:24
HOST:    sverige

Robert said: "There was a fake photo by some Photoshop geek with Jane Fonda 
added in to a photo of Kerry (or maybe it was Kerry added in to a photo of Fonda)."

Yes there was; and it was fully exposed; you can probably still find it 
documented on snopes.com

Robert further said: "But they actually did work together, and there are 
legit photos of them together at anti-war rallies."

Please provide links to these. But even then, there is no dispute that 
either of them were (correctly) opposed to that war at that time.


But then: "Remember there is no draft, and all these people are volunteers."

NOT ALL "these people" are volunteers. MANY of the currently serving 
military are under contract to serve for a specific term. And when that 
term has ended during 2003-4, the Bush/Rumsfeld goons have broken the terms 
of that contract, and refuse to release these patriots back to their 
families.

What has been widely and just here referred to as the "back door draft".


<GENERAL.28-Oct-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. I served in Vietnam (four months)
DATE:    28-Oct-04 23:04:24
HOST:    sverige

Robert said: "There was a fake photo by some Photoshop geek with Jane Fonda 
added in to a photo of Kerry (or maybe it was Kerry added in to a photo of Fonda)."

Yes there was; and it was fully exposed; you can probably still find it 
documented on snopes.com

Robert further said: "But they actually did work together, and there are 
legit photos of them together at anti-war rallies."

Please provide links to these. But even then, there is no dispute that 
either of them were (correctly) opposed to that war at that time.


But then: "Remember there is no draft, and all these people are volunteers."

NOT ALL "these people" are volunteers. MANY of the currently serving 
military are under contract to serve for a specific term. And when that 
term has ended during 2003-4, the Bush/Rumsfeld goons have broken the terms 
of that contract, and refuse to release these patriots back to their 
families.

What has been widely and just here referred to as the "back door draft".


TACKER:  avoyager (Bonny Lee)
SUBJECT: .. I served in Vietnam (four months)
DATE:    29-Oct-04 19:43:03
HOST:    sverige

yes, thank you. Stop-loss orders ARE the "back door draft".

<GENERAL.29-Oct-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Bonny Lee)
SUBJECT: .. I served in Vietnam (four months)
DATE:    29-Oct-04 19:43:03
HOST:    sverige

yes, thank you. Stop-loss orders ARE the "back door draft".

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. I served in Vietnam (four months)
DATE:    30-Oct-04 13:03:29
HOST:    sverige

Part of the very sad truth is ... that when Bush or Cheney or Rumsfeld say 
ANYthing, by now we KNOW that they're lying. There is just no credibility 
left in this current mis-administration; and rightly, if sorrowfully, so, 
because they have been jizzing us about everything all along.

Nothing those goons say is, or has been, true.

Bummer, eh?

<GENERAL.30-Oct-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. I served in Vietnam (four months)
DATE:    30-Oct-04 13:03:29
HOST:    sverige

Part of the very sad truth is ... that when Bush or Cheney or Rumsfeld say 
ANYthing, by now we KNOW that they're lying. There is just no credibility 
left in this current mis-administration; and rightly, if sorrowfully, so, 
because they have been jizzing us about everything all along.

Nothing those goons say is, or has been, true.

Bummer, eh?

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. I served in Vietnam (four months)
DATE:    30-Oct-04 21:49:52
HOST:    sverige

I didn't see the show; but Stewart has a better than average ability to see 
the funny, ironic, ridiculious elements in a situation, and in a group of 
situations, as you described.

It is painfully clear to him, and others, as it was to the liberal horde 
two+ years ago, that Bush's invasion of Iraq would *cause* the situations 
which the U.S. Generalissimo was averring to *prevent*, specifically the 
addition of weapons and public support to BinLaden's tiny and defeated gang 
of extremists.

Part 2 of the BBC series "The Power of Nightmares" shows how the radical 
fundamentalist Islamist movement, which would later be named al-Qaida, had 
failed without popular support (in parallel with the neo-con movement in 
the U.S.), and concludes with the statement that neo-conservatives' 
reaction to the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001 "transformed the failing 
Islamist movement into what would appear to be the grand revolutionary 
force which Zawahari had always dreamed of."

U.S. may not have the Iraqi oil yet, but at least that oil is not being 
controlled by "old Europe" or China, and is still being sold in US$ rather 
than euro or dinar.

The U.S. is controlled by the, or its, "market", by capital greed and 
exploitation. NONE of this is about social, or even political, issues.

Bummer, eh?

<GENERAL.30-Oct-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. I served in Vietnam (four months)
DATE:    30-Oct-04 21:49:52
HOST:    sverige

I didn't see the show; but Stewart has a better than average ability to see 
the funny, ironic, ridiculious elements in a situation, and in a group of 
situations, as you described.

It is painfully clear to him, and others, as it was to the liberal horde 
two+ years ago, that Bush's invasion of Iraq would *cause* the situations 
which the U.S. Generalissimo was averring to *prevent*, specifically the 
addition of weapons and public support to BinLaden's tiny and defeated gang 
of extremists.

Part 2 of the BBC series "The Power of Nightmares" shows how the radical 
fundamentalist Islamist movement, which would later be named al-Qaida, had 
failed without popular support (in parallel with the neo-con movement in 
the U.S.), and concludes with the statement that neo-conservatives' 
reaction to the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001 "transformed the failing 
Islamist movement into what would appear to be the grand revolutionary 
force which Zawahari had always dreamed of."

U.S. may not have the Iraqi oil yet, but at least that oil is not being 
controlled by "old Europe" or China, and is still being sold in US$ rather 
than euro or dinar.

The U.S. is controlled by the, or its, "market", by capital greed and 
exploitation. NONE of this is about social, or even political, issues.

Bummer, eh?

.....TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. SDF Wiki
DATE:    30-Nov-04 23:26:49
HOST:    sverige

http://vosi.beevomit.org/sdf-help-wiki

Thanks to vosi, and other contributors, for this worthy effort.


<GENERAL.30-Nov-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. SDF Wiki
DATE:    30-Nov-04 23:26:49
HOST:    sverige

http://vosi.beevomit.org/sdf-help-wiki

Thanks to vosi, and other contributors, for this worthy effort.


..TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. the voting thread
DATE:    31-Oct-04 16:51:31
HOST:    sverige

Welcome to Democracy (such as it is, anyway). Vote early. Let the folks who 
are working at the polling place know that you appreciate them doing so. 
You might even be able to find a sample ballot online at the site of your 
local election board (county level).

<GENERAL.31-Oct-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. the voting thread
DATE:    31-Oct-04 16:51:31
HOST:    sverige

Welcome to Democracy (such as it is, anyway). Vote early. Let the folks who 
are working at the polling place know that you appreciate them doing so. 
You might even be able to find a sample ballot online at the site of your 
local election board (county level).

...........TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. the USA has a new god
DATE:    04-Nov-04 02:18:58
HOST:    sverige

It's not a "god". It's an "idol"; 
like in the old days a golden calf, 
these days an oily goat. 

An idol; a trend; both will pass like from the bowel.

<GOV.04-Nov-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. the USA has a new god
DATE:    04-Nov-04 02:18:58
HOST:    sverige

It's not a "god". It's an "idol"; 
like in the old days a golden calf, 
these days an oily goat. 

An idol; a trend; both will pass like from the bowel.

.TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Death to America! (Sign up here)!
DATE:    05-Nov-04 13:58:10
HOST:    sverige

it is buSHaron compliance year. even the environment will be forced to bow 
before it.

<GOV.05-Nov-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Death to America! (Sign up here)!
DATE:    05-Nov-04 13:58:10
HOST:    sverige

it is buSHaron compliance year. even the environment will be forced to bow 
before it.

.TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. WWW.KPFK.ORG
DATE:    23-Sep-04 17:36:16
HOST:    sverige

best yet, use http://www.publicradiofan.com

customize it for your tastes; show which of your favorites are on 'now'

there's a lot of great shows

not as easy to spot is one of my favorites via thomhartmann.com

Enjoy,

<GOV.23-Sep-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. WWW.KPFK.ORG
DATE:    23-Sep-04 17:36:16
HOST:    sverige

best yet, use http://www.publicradiofan.com

customize it for your tastes; show which of your favorites are on 'now'

there's a lot of great shows

not as easy to spot is one of my favorites via thomhartmann.com

Enjoy,

.................TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Happy Hanukkah
DATE:    14-Dec-04 14:10:36
HOST:    sverige

FWIW, My friend travelling in India says that many non-Christians there 
celebrate Christmas with trees, lights, gifts, songs, etc. just as 
traditional Christians; because they acknowledge Christ as an important 
voice in his day and also for today, perhaps as a prophet, but not as a 
divinity; yet they (at least some) do celebrate.

<HANUKKAH.14-Dec-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Happy Hanukkah
DATE:    14-Dec-04 14:10:36
HOST:    sverige

FWIW, My friend travelling in India says that many non-Christians there 
celebrate Christmas with trees, lights, gifts, songs, etc. just as 
traditional Christians; because they acknowledge Christ as an important 
voice in his day and also for today, perhaps as a prophet, but not as a 
divinity; yet they (at least some) do celebrate.

.TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Why don't Jews have Christmas trees?
DATE:    15-Dec-04 04:32:21
HOST:    sverige

>Uh... I wash my hands after I use the bathroom, every time.

Me too; unless I'm in the woods or on the water or where washing isn't 
available. In those cases, I thank God for an incredible immune system and 
the good sense to not wash my hands in my mouth.


<HANUKKAH.15-Dec-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Why don't Jews have Christmas trees?
DATE:    15-Dec-04 04:32:21
HOST:    sverige

>Uh... I wash my hands after I use the bathroom, every time.

Me too; unless I'm in the woods or on the water or where washing isn't 
available. In those cases, I thank God for an incredible immune system and 
the good sense to not wash my hands in my mouth.


..........TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. stray processes
DATE:    09-Dec-04 02:12:28
HOST:    sverige

Thanks Michael.

-9 did the trick.
'ps' doesn't seem to display processes other than 'ps -u' in my case.

I expect that these strays were left over from graceless disconnects 
without formal logout.

--Avo

<HELP.09-Dec-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. stray processes
DATE:    09-Dec-04 02:12:28
HOST:    sverige

Thanks Michael.

-9 did the trick.
'ps' doesn't seem to display processes other than 'ps -u' in my case.

I expect that these strays were left over from graceless disconnects 
without formal logout.

--Avo

..........TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. Should I be concerned?
DATE:    15-Sep-04 00:09:49
HOST:    sverige

I'll speculate that 'filtered' indicates that the port did not respond to 
nmap's SYN; and that 'unfiltered' (or 'closed') indicates that the remote 
port responded with a standard "not open" refusal (FIN?) and that 'open' 
indicates SYN ACK (or "Hi. Welcome!").

It's good that you are checking and studying.

<HELP.15-Sep-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. Should I be concerned?
DATE:    15-Sep-04 00:09:49
HOST:    sverige

I'll speculate that 'filtered' indicates that the port did not respond to 
nmap's SYN; and that 'unfiltered' (or 'closed') indicates that the remote 
port responded with a standard "not open" refusal (FIN?) and that 'open' 
indicates SYN ACK (or "Hi. Welcome!").

It's good that you are checking and studying.

...TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. email notification of bboard messages
DATE:    16-Dec-04 18:23:56
HOST:    sverige

Noting that replies to bboard are to the topic as a whole, not linked to 
any specific post within that topic, I wouldn't want to undertake, or 
suggest, the project.

<HELP.16-Dec-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. email notification of bboard messages
DATE:    16-Dec-04 18:23:56
HOST:    sverige

Noting that replies to bboard are to the topic as a whole, not linked to 
any specific post within that topic, I wouldn't want to undertake, or 
suggest, the project.

.TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. web port forwarding under METAARPA
DATE:    17-Nov-04 15:36:01
HOST:    sverige

Thomas, I don't see the proxy in your example.

Mark, perhaps it will help to view the tunnel as existing between one SSH 
client and one SSH daemon, encrypted; and from the daemon out to another 
single location, unencrypted.

For this discussion the daemon resides on SDF for Meta-ARPA members, and 
you can connect it to anything you want, but only one static place at a 
time, and traffic between SDF and that destination is not "in the tunnel" 
and not encrypted unless in concert with the remote host.

There's no need to tunnel to your localhost proxy, either directly or via 
SDF. Pointing the SDF end of the tunnel back to your local http proxy gains 
you nothing but additional overhead and routing dependencies upon the 
unnecessary tunnel.

As Bob noted, if you know of an accessible HTTP or SOCKS proxy, of which 
there are millions, and published somewhere, then you can connect to them 
from the SDF end of the tunnel, and get encrypted traffi between you adn 
SDF (so your ISP can't see what you're doing), and your connection to 
remote host will appear from the open proxy which you're using.

My guess is that published open proxies are very busy, and therefore slow 
for good use, but obscure; and always possible that somebody is logging on 
it, but in the case presented here, htey'd have only the SDF connection IP, 
not your personal box IP.

I hope this helps and that I haven't missed the point all together.

I don't think that SDF presently provides any proxy service. They tend to 
be heavy resource usage. You might be able to run one with a Server 
membership level, but I'd ask Stephen first about any server restrictions 
for use or load.


<HELP.17-Nov-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. web port forwarding under METAARPA
DATE:    17-Nov-04 15:36:01
HOST:    sverige

Thomas, I don't see the proxy in your example.

Mark, perhaps it will help to view the tunnel as existing between one SSH 
client and one SSH daemon, encrypted; and from the daemon out to another 
single location, unencrypted.

For this discussion the daemon resides on SDF for Meta-ARPA members, and 
you can connect it to anything you want, but only one static place at a 
time, and traffic between SDF and that destination is not "in the tunnel" 
and not encrypted unless in concert with the remote host.

There's no need to tunnel to your localhost proxy, either directly or via 
SDF. Pointing the SDF end of the tunnel back to your local http proxy gains 
you nothing but additional overhead and routing dependencies upon the 
unnecessary tunnel.

As Bob noted, if you know of an accessible HTTP or SOCKS proxy, of which 
there are millions, and published somewhere, then you can connect to them 
from the SDF end of the tunnel, and get encrypted traffi between you adn 
SDF (so your ISP can't see what you're doing), and your connection to 
remote host will appear from the open proxy which you're using.

My guess is that published open proxies are very busy, and therefore slow 
for good use, but obscure; and always possible that somebody is logging on 
it, but in the case presented here, htey'd have only the SDF connection IP, 
not your personal box IP.

I hope this helps and that I haven't missed the point all together.

I don't think that SDF presently provides any proxy service. They tend to 
be heavy resource usage. You might be able to run one with a Server 
membership level, but I'd ask Stephen first about any server restrictions 
for use or load.


TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. setvmail
DATE:    18-Aug-04 17:36:02
HOST:    sverige

Richard, I take it that you've solved this by now; that your enrollment is 
actuated? Could it be host specific? I had no trouble on (I think) sverige.

<HELP.18-Aug-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. setvmail
DATE:    18-Aug-04 17:36:02
HOST:    sverige

Richard, I take it that you've solved this by now; that your enrollment is 
actuated? Could it be host specific? I had no trouble on (I think) sverige.

........TACKER:  rbigelo (rbigelo)
SUBJECT: .. terminal colors
DATE:    22-Aug-04 00:21:00
HOST:    sverige

Hi avoyager,

	Which terminal APP or client you are using?

I'll see if I might know a thing or two.

-- Robert

<HELP.22-Aug-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  rbigelo (rbigelo)
SUBJECT: .. terminal colors
DATE:    22-Aug-04 00:21:00
HOST:    sverige

Hi avoyager,

	Which terminal APP or client you are using?

I'll see if I might know a thing or two.

-- Robert

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. terminal colors
DATE:    23-Aug-04 11:50:39
HOST:    sverige

Hi Robert.

I'm just using a command window character terminal SSH client ANSI 
terminal. 

Thanks for caring.


<HELP.23-Aug-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. terminal colors
DATE:    23-Aug-04 11:50:39
HOST:    sverige

Hi Robert.

I'm just using a command window character terminal SSH client ANSI 
terminal. 

Thanks for caring.


TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. terminal colors
DATE:    23-Aug-04 14:56:53
HOST:    sverige

There is an environment variable for coloring up the 'ls' output 
(LS_COLORS) but I don't expect 'man' to look there.

Relatedly, I'd be interested in reversing my terminal display to black on 
white; at which point maybe I couldn't see yellow text.

<HELP.23-Aug-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. terminal colors
DATE:    23-Aug-04 14:56:53
HOST:    sverige

There is an environment variable for coloring up the 'ls' output 
(LS_COLORS) but I don't expect 'man' to look there.

Relatedly, I'd be interested in reversing my terminal display to black on 
white; at which point maybe I couldn't see yellow text.

.......TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. grep and multiple strings
DATE:    25-Oct-04 23:25:29
HOST:    sverige

I think he wants AND not OR.
Perhaps something along the lines of (foo.*bar|bar.*foo) will doo?

<HELP.25-Oct-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. grep and multiple strings
DATE:    25-Oct-04 23:25:29
HOST:    sverige

I think he wants AND not OR.
Perhaps something along the lines of (foo.*bar|bar.*foo) will doo?

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. I want 2 OS on one hard drive!
DATE:    28-Dec-04 04:40:47
HOST:    sverige

You should probably plan to use some kind of "boot manager" on a primary 
partition.  There are plenty available, and you may find 'lilo' with your 
linux distro.

Historically, MS systems have needed a primary partition for booting, but 
w2k can reside on a logical volume.

It's common practice, and plenty of guidance is available in distro manuals 
and online.

<HELP.28-Dec-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. I want 2 OS on one hard drive!
DATE:    28-Dec-04 04:40:47
HOST:    sverige

You should probably plan to use some kind of "boot manager" on a primary 
partition.  There are plenty available, and you may find 'lilo' with your 
linux distro.

Historically, MS systems have needed a primary partition for booting, but 
w2k can reside on a logical volume.

It's common practice, and plenty of guidance is available in distro manuals 
and online.

...TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. Limit what a user can install in windoze xp/2000
DATE:    27-Oct-04 11:36:26
HOST:    sverige

I don't know about XP, but you can definitely secure a 2k system for 
teenage use by proper application of security templates. It took me a 
couple of days to ingest and implement this, but it's made for a painless 
and safe two years since.

((ah, shit; I'll have to log in from another shell to paste these refs 
later))

You must not let teens log in with Administrator privs. This may disable 
some of their favorite games however. In my case, I had to retain a '98 
boot option for Sims and Lotus Smart Suite.

later,

<HELP.27-Oct-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. Limit what a user can install in windoze xp/2000
DATE:    27-Oct-04 11:36:26
HOST:    sverige

I don't know about XP, but you can definitely secure a 2k system for 
teenage use by proper application of security templates. It took me a 
couple of days to ingest and implement this, but it's made for a painless 
and safe two years since.

((ah, shit; I'll have to log in from another shell to paste these refs 
later))

You must not let teens log in with Administrator privs. This may disable 
some of their favorite games however. In my case, I had to retain a '98 
boot option for Sims and Lotus Smart Suite.

later,

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. Limit what a user can install in windoze xp/2000
DATE:    27-Oct-04 11:44:33
HOST:    sverige

w2k security guides:


http://www.cisecurity.org/bench_win2000.html
http://nsa1.www.conxion.com/win2k/
http://csrc.nist.gov/itsec/ 

Having done all this, and giving them the properly restricted level, it was 
comforting to tell them that they couldn't possibly damage the system, and 
that any system troubles would be my fault, not theirs.

Definitely also, if the above doesn't, disable NetBios over TCP/IP, which 
is a lot easier in w2k than in '95.

And since they're probably going to have to do a complete reformat and 
reinstall, install the os/winnt to a partition other than 'C'.

my remote w2k:
H:\>netstat -an
Active Connections  Proto  Local Address          Foreign 
Address        State  

TCP    0.0.0.0:135            0.0.0.0:0              LISTENING
TCP    0.0.0.0:445            0.0.0.0:0              LISTENING  
TCP    0.0.0.0:2868           0.0.0.0:0              LISTENING
TCP    0.0.0.0:5800           0.0.0.0:0              LISTENING
TCP    0.0.0.0:5900           0.0.0.0:0              LISTENING
TCP    192.168.1.4:5900       192.168.1.7:50338      ESTABLISHED  
UDP    0.0.0.0:445            *:*
UDP    192.168.1.4:500        *:*

5800 and 5900 are the VNC ports by which I access the machine. I wouldn't 
likely leave those exposed if it all weren't also behind a secure firewall 
and NAT.

2868 is the anti-virus (Norman)

135, 445, and 500 are "microsoft 'features'(sic)"

Oh! and most importantly, hide the MS Explorer browser and Outlook client; 
replace them with Firefox and another email client of choice or 
recommendation. 

Remember, all the trouble it takes up front is much less than dealing with 
where they're at now.

Good luck.

<HELP.27-Oct-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. Limit what a user can install in windoze xp/2000
DATE:    27-Oct-04 11:44:33
HOST:    sverige

w2k security guides:


http://www.cisecurity.org/bench_win2000.html
http://nsa1.www.conxion.com/win2k/
http://csrc.nist.gov/itsec/ 

Having done all this, and giving them the properly restricted level, it was 
comforting to tell them that they couldn't possibly damage the system, and 
that any system troubles would be my fault, not theirs.

Definitely also, if the above doesn't, disable NetBios over TCP/IP, which 
is a lot easier in w2k than in '95.

And since they're probably going to have to do a complete reformat and 
reinstall, install the os/winnt to a partition other than 'C'.

my remote w2k:
H:\>netstat -an
Active Connections  Proto  Local Address          Foreign 
Address        State  

TCP    0.0.0.0:135            0.0.0.0:0              LISTENING
TCP    0.0.0.0:445            0.0.0.0:0              LISTENING  
TCP    0.0.0.0:2868           0.0.0.0:0              LISTENING
TCP    0.0.0.0:5800           0.0.0.0:0              LISTENING
TCP    0.0.0.0:5900           0.0.0.0:0              LISTENING
TCP    192.168.1.4:5900       192.168.1.7:50338      ESTABLISHED  
UDP    0.0.0.0:445            *:*
UDP    192.168.1.4:500        *:*

5800 and 5900 are the VNC ports by which I access the machine. I wouldn't 
likely leave those exposed if it all weren't also behind a secure firewall 
and NAT.

2868 is the anti-virus (Norman)

135, 445, and 500 are "microsoft 'features'(sic)"

Oh! and most importantly, hide the MS Explorer browser and Outlook client; 
replace them with Firefox and another email client of choice or 
recommendation. 

Remember, all the trouble it takes up front is much less than dealing with 
where they're at now.

Good luck.

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. Limit what a user can install in windoze xp/2000
DATE:    27-Oct-04 15:52:03
HOST:    sverige

Whether she sticks with w2k or goes with another OS, even she should log in 
for general use from a non-admin account, and only use admin accounts under 
carefully controlled circumstances.

Cheers,

<HELP.27-Oct-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. Limit what a user can install in windoze xp/2000
DATE:    27-Oct-04 15:52:03
HOST:    sverige

Whether she sticks with w2k or goes with another OS, even she should log in 
for general use from a non-admin account, and only use admin accounts under 
carefully controlled circumstances.

Cheers,

..TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Home firewalls
DATE:    29-Nov-04 03:31:10
HOST:    sverige

http://www.fx.dk


<HELP.29-Nov-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Home firewalls
DATE:    29-Nov-04 03:31:10
HOST:    sverige

http://www.fx.dk


....TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. UNIX trick to cut top 11 lines off of a text file?
DATE:    30-Nov-04 12:40:25
HOST:    sverige

but how to display the output EXCEPT the first 11 lines?

perhaps some combination of 'tail' and 'wc -l' and an arithmetec parser?


<HELP.30-Nov-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. UNIX trick to cut top 11 lines off of a text file?
DATE:    30-Nov-04 12:40:25
HOST:    sverige

but how to display the output EXCEPT the first 11 lines?

perhaps some combination of 'tail' and 'wc -l' and an arithmetec parser?


.....TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Billboard in Chicago area...
DATE:    07-Nov-04 17:38:07
HOST:    sverige

I don't think folks whose jobs have been outsourced find much humor in the 
redirection analysis.

<HUMOR.07-Nov-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Billboard in Chicago area...
DATE:    07-Nov-04 17:38:07
HOST:    sverige

I don't think folks whose jobs have been outsourced find much humor in the 
redirection analysis.

...........TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. I am the only italian of SDF?
DATE:    24-Nov-04 14:16:17
HOST:    otaku

Amy Goodman is broadcasting Democracy Now! from Italy _right_now_! The 
transcript and tape should be available in a few hours.

<ITALY.24-Nov-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. I am the only italian of SDF?
DATE:    24-Nov-04 14:16:17
HOST:    otaku

Amy Goodman is broadcasting Democracy Now! from Italy _right_now_! The 
transcript and tape should be available in a few hours.

..............................................................TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. Which satellite radio to get?
DATE:    27-Oct-04 20:32:56
HOST:    sverige

Thom Hartmann is also on Sirius (and radiopower.org)

<MUSIC.27-Oct-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. Which satellite radio to get?
DATE:    27-Oct-04 20:32:56
HOST:    sverige

Thom Hartmann is also on Sirius (and radiopower.org)

...TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. I've got a list if I can remember ..
DATE:    28-Dec-04 23:32:28
HOST:    sverige

Well, I was properly "newbie" while PIPping files between Async ports and 
8" floppies on CP/M, and would today appreciate enlightenment on these 
persistent understandings ...

1. Newbies tend to call a software terminal emulator 'the console'
3. Newbies think 8 bits compose a byte.

Thanks!
--Avo

<NEWBIES.28-Dec-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. I've got a list if I can remember ..
DATE:    28-Dec-04 23:32:28
HOST:    sverige

Well, I was properly "newbie" while PIPping files between Async ports and 
8" floppies on CP/M, and would today appreciate enlightenment on these 
persistent understandings ...

1. Newbies tend to call a software terminal emulator 'the console'
3. Newbies think 8 bits compose a byte.

Thanks!
--Avo

......TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. nature of man
DATE:    17-Nov-04 15:55:30
HOST:    sverige

Since we're not on this rock alone however, we can view others as allies or 
enemies. Furthermore, we're quite capable of cultivating relationships so 
that they are mutually beneficial, or for that matter, mutually 
detrimental.

There is also plenty of historic and current evidence of the cultivation of 
master-slave relationships. Of these, some are mutually beneficial, some 
are mutually detrimental.

I regard it as notable that there will always be humans greedy for power 
and eager to exploit; and there will also be those whose joy is to give, to 
serve, and to love.

<PHILOSOPHY.17-Nov-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. nature of man
DATE:    17-Nov-04 15:55:30
HOST:    sverige

Since we're not on this rock alone however, we can view others as allies or 
enemies. Furthermore, we're quite capable of cultivating relationships so 
that they are mutually beneficial, or for that matter, mutually 
detrimental.

There is also plenty of historic and current evidence of the cultivation of 
master-slave relationships. Of these, some are mutually beneficial, some 
are mutually detrimental.

I regard it as notable that there will always be humans greedy for power 
and eager to exploit; and there will also be those whose joy is to give, to 
serve, and to love.

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. nature of man
DATE:    19-Dec-04 20:33:33
HOST:    sverige

I'm not sure that the proper question is that of "good v. evil".

Consider what each of you define as "good" and "evil".

Man is born to some significant degree, "selfish" to look after its own 
needs and prioritize itself above other things.

At the same time, humans are born into a state of complete dependence upon 
others to take care of them.

As we grow up we work out some balancing between our selfish interests and 
capacity to exploit others, with our acknowledgement that relationships of 
care and dependency are precious indeed, to which we sacrifice some 
selfishness.

Being selfish is not evil; though if you regard your definition of "evil", 
you might find something of selfishness within it; at least more so than 
within your definitions of "good".

<PHILOSOPHY.19-Dec-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. nature of man
DATE:    19-Dec-04 20:33:33
HOST:    sverige

I'm not sure that the proper question is that of "good v. evil".

Consider what each of you define as "good" and "evil".

Man is born to some significant degree, "selfish" to look after its own 
needs and prioritize itself above other things.

At the same time, humans are born into a state of complete dependence upon 
others to take care of them.

As we grow up we work out some balancing between our selfish interests and 
capacity to exploit others, with our acknowledgement that relationships of 
care and dependency are precious indeed, to which we sacrifice some 
selfishness.

Being selfish is not evil; though if you regard your definition of "evil", 
you might find something of selfishness within it; at least more so than 
within your definitions of "good".

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. nature of man
DATE:    22-Nov-04 14:43:52
HOST:    sverige

>> this little story reflects how impossible it is to go
>> against one's nature.

Impossible for animals; but only difficult for humans, who regularly learn 
to restrain themselves.

fortunately.


<PHILOSOPHY.22-Nov-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. nature of man
DATE:    22-Nov-04 14:43:52
HOST:    sverige

>> this little story reflects how impossible it is to go
>> against one's nature.

Impossible for animals; but only difficult for humans, who regularly learn 
to restrain themselves.

fortunately.


...TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Bush/Cheney '04
DATE:    02-Nov-04 03:08:39
HOST:    sverige

I'm not sure that the polls are accurate, or even useful at all. With 
election reform, proportionate electorate and instant runoff voting, they 
could start to focus on issues and maybe survive.

As to Bush. He's a liar and a hypocrite; it's amazing that he's running on 
morality. He hasn't demonstrated a single policy implementation which has 
been a benefit to America or Americans, other than to his benefactors. It's 
not at all clear to me why ANYbody would vote for him.

However, acknowledging that may failure to understand his support does not 
extinguish that support, I'm having a hard time picturing, or hearing 
about, year 2000 Democrats changing their vote for 2004. I hear lots of 
2000 Republicans changing their vote.

New voters; LOTS of new registrations. Historically, according to the 
pundits, new voters rise up in opposition to the record of the incumbent.

I'll grant however that 2004 may be different, in that Bush has awakened a 
religious sect which values their morality standards more than democracy 
(which they may not understand as well) and above other morality issues, 
and above their own historic distaste for politics as corruption.

So, I don't see any reasoning why the year 2000 margin of Gore by 500,000 
*counted* votes should this year invert to a Bush plurality.

<POLITICS.02-Nov-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Bush/Cheney '04
DATE:    02-Nov-04 03:08:39
HOST:    sverige

I'm not sure that the polls are accurate, or even useful at all. With 
election reform, proportionate electorate and instant runoff voting, they 
could start to focus on issues and maybe survive.

As to Bush. He's a liar and a hypocrite; it's amazing that he's running on 
morality. He hasn't demonstrated a single policy implementation which has 
been a benefit to America or Americans, other than to his benefactors. It's 
not at all clear to me why ANYbody would vote for him.

However, acknowledging that may failure to understand his support does not 
extinguish that support, I'm having a hard time picturing, or hearing 
about, year 2000 Democrats changing their vote for 2004. I hear lots of 
2000 Republicans changing their vote.

New voters; LOTS of new registrations. Historically, according to the 
pundits, new voters rise up in opposition to the record of the incumbent.

I'll grant however that 2004 may be different, in that Bush has awakened a 
religious sect which values their morality standards more than democracy 
(which they may not understand as well) and above other morality issues, 
and above their own historic distaste for politics as corruption.

So, I don't see any reasoning why the year 2000 margin of Gore by 500,000 
*counted* votes should this year invert to a Bush plurality.

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Bush/Cheney '04
DATE:    06-Nov-04 01:44:13
HOST:    sverige

something else happened, eh.

<POLITICS.06-Nov-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Bush/Cheney '04
DATE:    06-Nov-04 01:44:13
HOST:    sverige

something else happened, eh.

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Bush/Cheney '04
DATE:    06-Nov-04 12:36:48
HOST:    sverige

Enron/Halliburton is now officially "on the march" again. Prepare for 
stampede.

<POLITICS.06-Nov-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Bush/Cheney '04
DATE:    06-Nov-04 12:36:48
HOST:    sverige

Enron/Halliburton is now officially "on the march" again. Prepare for 
stampede.

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Bush/Cheney '04
DATE:    06-Nov-04 15:59:34
HOST:    sverige

I still consider it too obvious to miss, but I'll take your bait and 
respond clearly : "since 2001, in the White House, Washington DC" whether 
you care to acknowledge it or not. But then, if the Cheney Energy Task 
Force records would be released, you could see it more clearly.

<POLITICS.06-Nov-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Bush/Cheney '04
DATE:    06-Nov-04 15:59:34
HOST:    sverige

I still consider it too obvious to miss, but I'll take your bait and 
respond clearly : "since 2001, in the White House, Washington DC" whether 
you care to acknowledge it or not. But then, if the Cheney Energy Task 
Force records would be released, you could see it more clearly.

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Bush/Cheney '04
DATE:    06-Nov-04 19:31:53
HOST:    sverige

Jon, when that source becomes credible for you, I'm sure you'll see it. 
Until then, have patience, and good luck.

<POLITICS.06-Nov-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Bush/Cheney '04
DATE:    06-Nov-04 19:31:53
HOST:    sverige

Jon, when that source becomes credible for you, I'm sure you'll see it. 
Until then, have patience, and good luck.

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. John Titor alludes to a Bush win?
DATE:    02-Nov-04 03:42:02
HOST:    sverige

economic shutdown, from the bottom up; decisive and effective.

<POLITICS.02-Nov-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. John Titor alludes to a Bush win?
DATE:    02-Nov-04 03:42:02
HOST:    sverige

economic shutdown, from the bottom up; decisive and effective.

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Some thoughts on the 2004 elections and democracy
DATE:    05-Nov-04 13:42:30
HOST:    sverige

Prepare yourself for Arnie GropenFuhrer Swartzenegger in '08. He'll fix 
everything.

<POLITICS.05-Nov-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Some thoughts on the 2004 elections and democracy
DATE:    05-Nov-04 13:42:30
HOST:    sverige

Prepare yourself for Arnie GropenFuhrer Swartzenegger in '08. He'll fix 
everything.

.TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Some thoughts on the 2004 elections and democracy
DATE:    06-Nov-04 01:23:51
HOST:    sverige

Watch for the Constitutional Amendment which will enable Ahnold to run for 
President.

Watch for the oil producing and consuming nations to separate that market 
from the U.S. dollar.

Watch for China to continue to escalate it's competitive demand for 
products which raise prices in the U.S.; to also continue being the chief 
financier of the U.S. debt; to also being a chief producer of U.S. required 
goods and services heretofore "outsourced"; to also be grinning happy when 
the shit hits the fan in that polluted wasteland between the oceans which 
used to be the "breadbasket of the world" and "the greatest nation on 
earth" and even for a brief period democratic.


<POLITICS.06-Nov-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Some thoughts on the 2004 elections and democracy
DATE:    06-Nov-04 01:23:51
HOST:    sverige

Watch for the Constitutional Amendment which will enable Ahnold to run for 
President.

Watch for the oil producing and consuming nations to separate that market 
from the U.S. dollar.

Watch for China to continue to escalate it's competitive demand for 
products which raise prices in the U.S.; to also continue being the chief 
financier of the U.S. debt; to also being a chief producer of U.S. required 
goods and services heretofore "outsourced"; to also be grinning happy when 
the shit hits the fan in that polluted wasteland between the oceans which 
used to be the "breadbasket of the world" and "the greatest nation on 
earth" and even for a brief period democratic.


TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. left vs right
DATE:    05-Nov-04 13:45:02
HOST:    sverige

The EU is well positioned now. During the last four years, good people on 
this planet could still get away with believing that Americans are OK, it's 
just their President who is the problem. That's no longer true. Now, 
especially within the United States, it's his idolaters who are the biggest 
problem.

<POLITICS.05-Nov-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. left vs right
DATE:    05-Nov-04 13:45:02
HOST:    sverige

The EU is well positioned now. During the last four years, good people on 
this planet could still get away with believing that Americans are OK, it's 
just their President who is the problem. That's no longer true. Now, 
especially within the United States, it's his idolaters who are the biggest 
problem.

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. Bush leads Kerry 52 to 41 as of today???
DATE:    06-Sep-04 13:49:37
HOST:    sverige

except, .... if, .... Fox News were taken off the air, Bush couldn't 
possibly win, because then the vast majority of voters who let Fox do their 
thinking for them, .... well, I won't speculate on that.

<POLITICS.06-Sep-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. Bush leads Kerry 52 to 41 as of today???
DATE:    06-Sep-04 13:49:37
HOST:    sverige

except, .... if, .... Fox News were taken off the air, Bush couldn't 
possibly win, because then the vast majority of voters who let Fox do their 
thinking for them, .... well, I won't speculate on that.

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Don't blame me...
DATE:    06-Nov-04 19:29:19
HOST:    sverige

"twit happens"
http://www.cafepress.com/thewhitehouse/322501

<POLITICS.06-Nov-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Don't blame me...
DATE:    06-Nov-04 19:29:19
HOST:    sverige

"twit happens"
http://www.cafepress.com/thewhitehouse/322501

.TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Dems did win and Kerry should be in office.
DATE:    09-Nov-04 21:44:31
HOST:    sverige

Jon, "Bush won fair and square." That is an interim conclusion, not final, 
and definitely contested by an increasing volume of evidence to the 
contrary. Is that reality too painful for you to accept?

<POLITICS.09-Nov-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Dems did win and Kerry should be in office.
DATE:    09-Nov-04 21:44:31
HOST:    sverige

Jon, "Bush won fair and square." That is an interim conclusion, not final, 
and definitely contested by an increasing volume of evidence to the 
contrary. Is that reality too painful for you to accept?

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Dems did win and Kerry should be in office.
DATE:    12-Nov-04 12:01:50
HOST:    sverige

"dirty politics" indeed. He relied upon slandering (with false accusations) 
all his political victims, er..opponents, including John McCaine in 2000 
primaries and Ann Richards for TX Gov.

<POLITICS.12-Nov-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Dems did win and Kerry should be in office.
DATE:    12-Nov-04 12:01:50
HOST:    sverige

"dirty politics" indeed. He relied upon slandering (with false accusations) 
all his political victims, er..opponents, including John McCaine in 2000 
primaries and Ann Richards for TX Gov.

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Dems did win and Kerry should be in office.
DATE:    12-Nov-04 22:16:38
HOST:    sverige

Jon, I bet you'd be sore too if you were forced to stand in line for over 
six hours in order to cast a ballot.

<POLITICS.12-Nov-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Dems did win and Kerry should be in office.
DATE:    12-Nov-04 22:16:38
HOST:    sverige

Jon, I bet you'd be sore too if you were forced to stand in line for over 
six hours in order to cast a ballot.

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Dems did win and Kerry should be in office.
DATE:    13-Nov-04 18:47:30
HOST:    sverige

It was not my personal misfortune to have to wait at all. I have 
considerable empathy for those who sadly, and unnecessarily, were forced by 
Republican operatives, to do so.

<POLITICS.13-Nov-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Dems did win and Kerry should be in office.
DATE:    13-Nov-04 18:47:30
HOST:    sverige

It was not my personal misfortune to have to wait at all. I have 
considerable empathy for those who sadly, and unnecessarily, were forced by 
Republican operatives, to do so.

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. alternative to kerry/bush impass
DATE:    09-Oct-04 03:19:43
HOST:    sverige

You could write in Ken Lay, but then, .... that wouldn't reallly be 
'alternative' would it?

Enron/Halliburton'00 forever rule!!

<POLITICS.09-Oct-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. alternative to kerry/bush impass
DATE:    09-Oct-04 03:19:43
HOST:    sverige

You could write in Ken Lay, but then, .... that wouldn't reallly be 
'alternative' would it?

Enron/Halliburton'00 forever rule!!

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. alternative to kerry/bush impass
DATE:    09-Oct-04 15:22:07
HOST:    sverige

kerry:bush::chemotherapy:terminal_cancer

<POLITICS.09-Oct-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. alternative to kerry/bush impass
DATE:    09-Oct-04 15:22:07
HOST:    sverige

kerry:bush::chemotherapy:terminal_cancer

..TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. haha!
DATE:    13-Nov-04 14:55:57
HOST:    sverige

Elftor is a good one!

Never overllok The Onion however ...
http://www.theonion.com/news/index.php?issue=4045

"The Republican party-the party of industrial mega-capitalists, corporate 
financiers, power brokers, and the moneyed elite-would like to thank the 
undereducated rural poor, the struggling blue-collar workers in Middle 
America, and the God-fearing underpriviledged minorities who voted George 
W. Bush back into office," Karl Rove, senior advisor to Bush, told 
reporters at a press conference Monday. "You have selflessly sacrificed 
your well-being and voted against your own economic interest. For this, we 
humbly thank you."

Added Rove: "You have acted beyond the call of duty-or, for that matter, 
good sense."

--continued at the source --


<POLITICS.13-Nov-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. haha!
DATE:    13-Nov-04 14:55:57
HOST:    sverige

Elftor is a good one!

Never overllok The Onion however ...
http://www.theonion.com/news/index.php?issue=4045

"The Republican party-the party of industrial mega-capitalists, corporate 
financiers, power brokers, and the moneyed elite-would like to thank the 
undereducated rural poor, the struggling blue-collar workers in Middle 
America, and the God-fearing underpriviledged minorities who voted George 
W. Bush back into office," Karl Rove, senior advisor to Bush, told 
reporters at a press conference Monday. "You have selflessly sacrificed 
your well-being and voted against your own economic interest. For this, we 
humbly thank you."

Added Rove: "You have acted beyond the call of duty-or, for that matter, 
good sense."

--continued at the source --


TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. haha!
DATE:    13-Nov-04 14:57:45
HOST:    sverige

"The alliance between the tiny fraction at the top of the pyramid and the 
teeming masses of mouth-breathers at its enormous base has never been 
stronger," a triumphant Bush said. "We have an understanding, them and us. 
They help us stay rich, and in return, we help them stay poor. See? No 
matter what naysayers may think, the system works."

-ibid.

<POLITICS.13-Nov-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. haha!
DATE:    13-Nov-04 14:57:45
HOST:    sverige

"The alliance between the tiny fraction at the top of the pyramid and the 
teeming masses of mouth-breathers at its enormous base has never been 
stronger," a triumphant Bush said. "We have an understanding, them and us. 
They help us stay rich, and in return, we help them stay poor. See? No 
matter what naysayers may think, the system works."

-ibid.

.TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. beta vote
DATE:    20-Oct-04 12:12:27
HOST:    sverige

twit happens

Picture this. If you voted in a state which Gore won in the 2000 election, 
... a vote for Bush did not contribute to his victory; ... a vote for Gore 
was discarded by the electoral college process.

Neither vote contributed to the result. It's no wonder folks don't bother.

<POLITICS.20-Oct-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. beta vote
DATE:    20-Oct-04 12:12:27
HOST:    sverige

twit happens

Picture this. If you voted in a state which Gore won in the 2000 election, 
... a vote for Bush did not contribute to his victory; ... a vote for Gore 
was discarded by the electoral college process.

Neither vote contributed to the result. It's no wonder folks don't bother.

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. President Bush Addresses UN General Assembly
DATE:    21-Sep-04 18:09:19
HOST:    sverige

I find the UN web streamer overloaded or otherwise unresponsive. Is there 
another outlet for hearing the rest of the speakers?

TIA,

<POLITICS.21-Sep-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. President Bush Addresses UN General Assembly
DATE:    21-Sep-04 18:09:19
HOST:    sverige

I find the UN web streamer overloaded or otherwise unresponsive. Is there 
another outlet for hearing the rest of the speakers?

TIA,

.TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. Third party resources
DATE:    21-Sep-04 20:55:21
HOST:    sverige

http://politics1.com/parties.htm

<POLITICS.21-Sep-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. Third party resources
DATE:    21-Sep-04 20:55:21
HOST:    sverige

http://politics1.com/parties.htm

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Oh no, I'm going to have to vote for Kerry
DATE:    02-Nov-04 03:22:00
HOST:    sverige

Declan got it right. Removing all partisanship and affected patriotism, and 
looking at it objectively, Bush is indistinguishable from BinLaden. Both 
are religious extremists and imperialists who claim to be personal 
emmisaries of GOD defending their followers against the "evil" of the 
other. For both, the primary tool of their persuasion is FEAR.

Find a torrent of "The Power of Nightmares" created by BBC in three parts; 
the last of which to air this Wednesday.

<POLITICS.02-Nov-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Oh no, I'm going to have to vote for Kerry
DATE:    02-Nov-04 03:22:00
HOST:    sverige

Declan got it right. Removing all partisanship and affected patriotism, and 
looking at it objectively, Bush is indistinguishable from BinLaden. Both 
are religious extremists and imperialists who claim to be personal 
emmisaries of GOD defending their followers against the "evil" of the 
other. For both, the primary tool of their persuasion is FEAR.

Find a torrent of "The Power of Nightmares" created by BBC in three parts; 
the last of which to air this Wednesday.

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Oh no, I'm going to have to vote for Kerry
DATE:    02-Nov-04 03:30:34
HOST:    sverige

The trouble with a Kerry win, even after getting over the tantrums Bush 
will throw during this first time of life that he has to accept criticism, 
failure, and defeat, is that the large idolotry of him will persist; he 
will have become a martyr for the neo-con and religious agendas, which are 
insane and narrow.

The important goal for global and U.S. democracy is to unseat that agenda, 
and it's incorporated propaganda machine. A Kerry victory could just send 
the Bush agenda into rabid attack mode, or hibernation; but I don't think 
it can overcome it permanently.

On the other hand, a Bush victory could kill all remaining notions that he 
was clueful within a year or two. His agenda would implode upon him with a 
vengence, and permanently. The cost would be greater, but the recovery 
quicker, than with Kerry.

Either way, it'll be a helluva mess just cleaning up the damage he's done 
so far. Note that he's done nothing of benefit to anyone other than his 
personal benefactors; but extensive damage to everybody, and everything, 
else.

Peace,

<POLITICS.02-Nov-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Oh no, I'm going to have to vote for Kerry
DATE:    02-Nov-04 03:30:34
HOST:    sverige

The trouble with a Kerry win, even after getting over the tantrums Bush 
will throw during this first time of life that he has to accept criticism, 
failure, and defeat, is that the large idolotry of him will persist; he 
will have become a martyr for the neo-con and religious agendas, which are 
insane and narrow.

The important goal for global and U.S. democracy is to unseat that agenda, 
and it's incorporated propaganda machine. A Kerry victory could just send 
the Bush agenda into rabid attack mode, or hibernation; but I don't think 
it can overcome it permanently.

On the other hand, a Bush victory could kill all remaining notions that he 
was clueful within a year or two. His agenda would implode upon him with a 
vengence, and permanently. The cost would be greater, but the recovery 
quicker, than with Kerry.

Either way, it'll be a helluva mess just cleaning up the damage he's done 
so far. Note that he's done nothing of benefit to anyone other than his 
personal benefactors; but extensive damage to everybody, and everything, 
else.

Peace,

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. Socialism - the only hope for the future
DATE:    23-Aug-04 21:37:18
HOST:    sverige

Capitalism, and Democracy, would both be more useful if capitalism served 
as the tool of government; rather than government serving as the tool of 
unrestrained greed and exploitation.

<POLITICS.23-Aug-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. Socialism - the only hope for the future
DATE:    23-Aug-04 21:37:18
HOST:    sverige

Capitalism, and Democracy, would both be more useful if capitalism served 
as the tool of government; rather than government serving as the tool of 
unrestrained greed and exploitation.

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. Socialism - the only hope for the future
DATE:    23-Aug-04 23:58:36
HOST:    sverige

The purpose of government is pretty well documented in the Constitution of 
the United States; at least it's one example of a democratic government. 
Read that and you'll clearly see those parts which are still functioning 
and which are not.

The purpose of publicly traded corporations is to maximize profit for s 
hareholders; that's all; it's documented in the legislation which enables 
corporations to exist.

There's nothing very foggy or unclear about these matters in the U.S. 

Did you have some particular question, concern, or dispute?

<POLITICS.23-Aug-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. Socialism - the only hope for the future
DATE:    23-Aug-04 23:58:36
HOST:    sverige

The purpose of government is pretty well documented in the Constitution of 
the United States; at least it's one example of a democratic government. 
Read that and you'll clearly see those parts which are still functioning 
and which are not.

The purpose of publicly traded corporations is to maximize profit for s 
hareholders; that's all; it's documented in the legislation which enables 
corporations to exist.

There's nothing very foggy or unclear about these matters in the U.S. 

Did you have some particular question, concern, or dispute?

TACKER:  martind (Martin Danielsson)
SUBJECT: .. Socialism - the only hope for the future
DATE:    24-Aug-04 14:02:13
HOST:    sverige

TACKER:  avoyager ()
> Capitalism, and Democracy, would both be more useful if capitalism served 
> as the tool of government; rather than government serving as the tool of 
> unrestrained greed and exploitation.

Yes, capitalism would be more useful if used as a tool of government, nowadays
politicians are bitches of the "market". I Sweden arguments like we can't do
this or that because big business will leave Sweden for less "enterprise
hostile" countries are too common... 

The state is supposed to rub enterprise's backs but the large companies don't
have to take  any social responsibility.  They can say play 
    by our rules or we will leave for estonia/latvia/lithuania.  We have a
    responsibility to our stockholders to maximise profit and if you do this or
    that we just can't justify staying here when it will be so much
    economically sensible to move, but we really want to stay so if you could
    just... we will stay.

Marx may have been criminally optimistic but "from each according to his
ability, to each according to his need." is the way it should be!!

I also despise the idea that it is money that makes money. If you have alot it
is dead easy to get alot more. If you have just enough, you will continue to
have just enough. The people who have just enough are the ones who make it easy
for the ones who have alot to easily make more. Actually, they are a necessity
for the ones with alot to be able to be in that situation. I don't understand
how this can be a desirable order. 

A Socialist society won't be perfect, far from it, but I'd much rather fail
trying to do the right thing than simply stop giving a fuck. what we have in
the world right now sucks beyond belief!

I can understand how ideological neoliberal thinks. But very few of the ones I
have met actually thinks it's a good idea to take to the limit, if it were
possible. I just can't understand how some half meassure variant of this society can be desirable. To _me_ that _seems_ like cheap egosim.

salaam,
Martin

<POLITICS.24-Aug-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  martind (Martin Danielsson)
SUBJECT: .. Socialism - the only hope for the future
DATE:    24-Aug-04 14:02:13
HOST:    sverige

TACKER:  avoyager ()
> Capitalism, and Democracy, would both be more useful if capitalism served 
> as the tool of government; rather than government serving as the tool of 
> unrestrained greed and exploitation.

Yes, capitalism would be more useful if used as a tool of government, nowadays
politicians are bitches of the "market". I Sweden arguments like we can't do
this or that because big business will leave Sweden for less "enterprise
hostile" countries are too common... 

The state is supposed to rub enterprise's backs but the large companies don't
have to take  any social responsibility.  They can say play 
    by our rules or we will leave for estonia/latvia/lithuania.  We have a
    responsibility to our stockholders to maximise profit and if you do this or
    that we just can't justify staying here when it will be so much
    economically sensible to move, but we really want to stay so if you could
    just... we will stay.

Marx may have been criminally optimistic but "from each according to his
ability, to each according to his need." is the way it should be!!

I also despise the idea that it is money that makes money. If you have alot it
is dead easy to get alot more. If you have just enough, you will continue to
have just enough. The people who have just enough are the ones who make it easy
for the ones who have alot to easily make more. Actually, they are a necessity
for the ones with alot to be able to be in that situation. I don't understand
how this can be a desirable order. 

A Socialist society won't be perfect, far from it, but I'd much rather fail
trying to do the right thing than simply stop giving a fuck. what we have in
the world right now sucks beyond belief!

I can understand how ideological neoliberal thinks. But very few of the ones I
have met actually thinks it's a good idea to take to the limit, if it were
possible. I just can't understand how some half meassure variant of this society can be desirable. To _me_ that _seems_ like cheap egosim.

salaam,
Martin

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. Socialism - the only hope for the future
DATE:    24-Aug-04 15:34:04
HOST:    sverige

"Socialism of costs; privatization of profits".
Does that sound scalable?

In the US, public money is used to subsidize political donors with 
government contracts; and the money comes back in obscene profits to 
lobbiests and contributions promoting their narrow ideology, WITH THE 
PUBLIC MONEY.

<POLITICS.24-Aug-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. Socialism - the only hope for the future
DATE:    24-Aug-04 15:34:04
HOST:    sverige

"Socialism of costs; privatization of profits".
Does that sound scalable?

In the US, public money is used to subsidize political donors with 
government contracts; and the money comes back in obscene profits to 
lobbiests and contributions promoting their narrow ideology, WITH THE 
PUBLIC MONEY.

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. Socialism - the only hope for the future
DATE:    24-Aug-04 21:58:08
HOST:    sverige

Adam, In answer to your question, "neither".

BTW, what is "communist paradise" anyway?

<POLITICS.24-Aug-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. Socialism - the only hope for the future
DATE:    24-Aug-04 21:58:08
HOST:    sverige

Adam, In answer to your question, "neither".

BTW, what is "communist paradise" anyway?

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. Socialism - the only hope for the future
DATE:    25-Aug-04 12:26:36
HOST:    sverige

mackle, the alternatives to the present state of affairs are not 
limited to just giving all ownership over to the State. Expand your 
horizons and step away from the fear.

We don't achieve greatness by defining polar opposites with no room between 
them. There can be a socialism together with private ownership. And there 
can be a capitalism without prioritizing greed and exploitation above all 
else. There can even be government by and for the people and the common 
resource, without privatizing the public resource.

If we want it.

Why do you worry about the state stealing private goods, but accept the 
private sector stealing the common, public for all, resource? Not just the 
environment, and the basic government obligations of health, education, and 
welfare, but our own government itself has been stolen from the people.

How can you find that any more acceptable, or different, than allowing your 
government to encourage you to contribute to the common endeavors?

Peace,

<POLITICS.25-Aug-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. Socialism - the only hope for the future
DATE:    25-Aug-04 12:26:36
HOST:    sverige

mackle, the alternatives to the present state of affairs are not 
limited to just giving all ownership over to the State. Expand your 
horizons and step away from the fear.

We don't achieve greatness by defining polar opposites with no room between 
them. There can be a socialism together with private ownership. And there 
can be a capitalism without prioritizing greed and exploitation above all 
else. There can even be government by and for the people and the common 
resource, without privatizing the public resource.

If we want it.

Why do you worry about the state stealing private goods, but accept the 
private sector stealing the common, public for all, resource? Not just the 
environment, and the basic government obligations of health, education, and 
welfare, but our own government itself has been stolen from the people.

How can you find that any more acceptable, or different, than allowing your 
government to encourage you to contribute to the common endeavors?

Peace,

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. Socialism - the only hope for the future
DATE:    26-Aug-04 01:09:12
HOST:    sverige

roint, I think, but am not certain, that Sweden is successfully somewhat 
socialist.

Also, health/medicine is a good example case in point. The U.S. has the 
best, or some of the best, medical facilities, technology, knowledge, and 
practice; but the delivery system ("health care") is SHIT. All other 
industrialized countries have healthier people and better health care.

but not better medical treatment; just better health care.

because??????, it's socialized.

<POLITICS.26-Aug-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. Socialism - the only hope for the future
DATE:    26-Aug-04 01:09:12
HOST:    sverige

roint, I think, but am not certain, that Sweden is successfully somewhat 
socialist.

Also, health/medicine is a good example case in point. The U.S. has the 
best, or some of the best, medical facilities, technology, knowledge, and 
practice; but the delivery system ("health care") is SHIT. All other 
industrialized countries have healthier people and better health care.

but not better medical treatment; just better health care.

because??????, it's socialized.

TACKER:  martind (Martin Danielsson)
SUBJECT: .. Socialism - the only hope for the future
DATE:    26-Aug-04 13:29:41
HOST:    sverige

TACKER:  avoyager ()
HOST:    sverige

> roint, I think, but am not certain, that Sweden is successfully somewhat
> socialist.

avoyager, if you put emphasis on "somewhat" you are right. the government "Socia
Democrats" aren't social democrat any longer they are clearly liberalist, but
ok "social liberals". vänsterpartiet, the most left wing party in parliament,
are nowadays pretty much "social democrats", they got my vote... ;).

Sweden is still "ok", but it is clearly going down hill and too fast...

Salaam,
Martin

<POLITICS.26-Aug-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  martind (Martin Danielsson)
SUBJECT: .. Socialism - the only hope for the future
DATE:    26-Aug-04 13:29:41
HOST:    sverige

TACKER:  avoyager ()
HOST:    sverige

> roint, I think, but am not certain, that Sweden is successfully somewhat
> socialist.

avoyager, if you put emphasis on "somewhat" you are right. the government "Socia
Democrats" aren't social democrat any longer they are clearly liberalist, but
ok "social liberals". vänsterpartiet, the most left wing party in parliament,
are nowadays pretty much "social democrats", they got my vote... ;).

Sweden is still "ok", but it is clearly going down hill and too fast...

Salaam,
Martin

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. Socialism - the only hope for the future
DATE:    30-Aug-04 03:37:54
HOST:    sverige

I'm saddened to hear opinion that Sweden is going downhill.

Peace.

<POLITICS.30-Aug-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. Socialism - the only hope for the future
DATE:    30-Aug-04 03:37:54
HOST:    sverige

I'm saddened to hear opinion that Sweden is going downhill.

Peace.

.TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. God does exist and is angry w/Bush idiots
DATE:    28-Sep-04 22:04:46
HOST:    sverige

Just  to be clear, God does NOT create or direct hurricanes. That's quite 
"out of scope" for what He does.

Furthermore, I've no doubt that the Bushites will take pride in being 
singled out for His special attention; and their ability to bootstrap 
themselves up without the assistance of social programs.


<POLITICS.28-Sep-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. God does exist and is angry w/Bush idiots
DATE:    28-Sep-04 22:04:46
HOST:    sverige

Just  to be clear, God does NOT create or direct hurricanes. That's quite 
"out of scope" for what He does.

Furthermore, I've no doubt that the Bushites will take pride in being 
singled out for His special attention; and their ability to bootstrap 
themselves up without the assistance of social programs.


..........TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Theology
DATE:    20-Nov-04 22:51:06
HOST:    sverige

>> I would have defined Theology as the study of religion.

I'm not certain of understanding you here, but a course of study in 
"comparative religions" wouldn't be what I was referring to, though it 
might be found in a "theological school".

>> The question of the existance of an 'inner soul' is in itself a 
>> theolgic/religious/philosphical issue,

Because a human soul or spirit is not physically demonstrable, it should 
not be a study of natural psychology, or of social philosophy.

My definitions however posit a distinction between natural and spiritual. 

A course in "comparative religions" is to me a matter of philosophy; while 
the study of, and operation of (regardless of our acknowledgement), human 
soul or spirit, and its spiritual essence apart from natural physics, and 
its interaction with the human natural, is how I define theology.

In this view, the "...ologies" are words which refer to active components 
of our existence, whether we acknowledge or study them or not; and are also 
the same words we use to describe our study of these phenomena.

Doesn't psychology refer to the study of our psychology?
and philosophy refer to the study of our philosophy?
Don't we have a psychology and a philosophy?

Yes. and we have a theology; the study thereof is known as theology.

Not too confusing, really.

<RELIGION.20-Nov-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Theology
DATE:    20-Nov-04 22:51:06
HOST:    sverige

>> I would have defined Theology as the study of religion.

I'm not certain of understanding you here, but a course of study in 
"comparative religions" wouldn't be what I was referring to, though it 
might be found in a "theological school".

>> The question of the existance of an 'inner soul' is in itself a 
>> theolgic/religious/philosphical issue,

Because a human soul or spirit is not physically demonstrable, it should 
not be a study of natural psychology, or of social philosophy.

My definitions however posit a distinction between natural and spiritual. 

A course in "comparative religions" is to me a matter of philosophy; while 
the study of, and operation of (regardless of our acknowledgement), human 
soul or spirit, and its spiritual essence apart from natural physics, and 
its interaction with the human natural, is how I define theology.

In this view, the "...ologies" are words which refer to active components 
of our existence, whether we acknowledge or study them or not; and are also 
the same words we use to describe our study of these phenomena.

Doesn't psychology refer to the study of our psychology?
and philosophy refer to the study of our philosophy?
Don't we have a psychology and a philosophy?

Yes. and we have a theology; the study thereof is known as theology.

Not too confusing, really.

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Theology
DATE:    21-Nov-04 05:02:39
HOST:    sverige

Brandon,

>> "Inner soul" is pretty much a product of New Age pop spiritual 
>> psychobabble, at least in any usages one would find post-19th century, 
>> and probably has very little in common with similar terms that were
>> used by philosophers like Aristotle, Augustine and Descartes.
>> I would recommend studying the older definitions before trying
>> to come up with a new one ;)

Come on, Brandon. "Inner soul" is FIRST something which is about as old as 
"the breath of life", and way older than language or written word.

After that, there were many acknowledgements of, and written references to, 
"soul" before what you see, and needlessly introduce, as "New Age pop 
spiritual psychobabble".

What is your point here? "New Age" is not the topic, or relevant.

Are naysayers as void of reason and logic as are faithfull believers?



<RELIGION.21-Nov-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Theology
DATE:    21-Nov-04 05:02:39
HOST:    sverige

Brandon,

>> "Inner soul" is pretty much a product of New Age pop spiritual 
>> psychobabble, at least in any usages one would find post-19th century, 
>> and probably has very little in common with similar terms that were
>> used by philosophers like Aristotle, Augustine and Descartes.
>> I would recommend studying the older definitions before trying
>> to come up with a new one ;)

Come on, Brandon. "Inner soul" is FIRST something which is about as old as 
"the breath of life", and way older than language or written word.

After that, there were many acknowledgements of, and written references to, 
"soul" before what you see, and needlessly introduce, as "New Age pop 
spiritual psychobabble".

What is your point here? "New Age" is not the topic, or relevant.

Are naysayers as void of reason and logic as are faithfull believers?



TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Defining GOD
DATE:    20-Nov-04 22:40:28
HOST:    sverige

In addition to omnipotent, GOD is also frequently referred to as 
omniscient, and omnipresent.

It is the omnipotent attribute which is the most puzzling, and for me most 
distrubing. Perhaps it is the root of insurance companies and others using 
the phrase "acts of God" in reference to all manner of natural 
catastrophies over which God has no control whatsoever

Most peculiar and disturbing about this non-sensical association is that it 
seems to be applied only to catastrophic disasters, never to wondrous 
beautiful and beneficial events.

There is no evidence that GOD, or anything else, is omnipotent. That's just 
one grand illusion, or perhaps a conspiracy theory.

There is however, plenty of evidence for the existence of love and wisdom, 
the source and perfection thereof being ....

<RELIGION.20-Nov-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Defining GOD
DATE:    20-Nov-04 22:40:28
HOST:    sverige

In addition to omnipotent, GOD is also frequently referred to as 
omniscient, and omnipresent.

It is the omnipotent attribute which is the most puzzling, and for me most 
distrubing. Perhaps it is the root of insurance companies and others using 
the phrase "acts of God" in reference to all manner of natural 
catastrophies over which God has no control whatsoever

Most peculiar and disturbing about this non-sensical association is that it 
seems to be applied only to catastrophic disasters, never to wondrous 
beautiful and beneficial events.

There is no evidence that GOD, or anything else, is omnipotent. That's just 
one grand illusion, or perhaps a conspiracy theory.

There is however, plenty of evidence for the existence of love and wisdom, 
the source and perfection thereof being ....

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Defining GOD
DATE:    20-Nov-04 23:22:42
HOST:    sverige

but can a void have any awareness at all?

and what is required for an awareness of self, beyond awareness which does 
not include self?

<RELIGION.20-Nov-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Defining GOD
DATE:    20-Nov-04 23:22:42
HOST:    sverige

but can a void have any awareness at all?

and what is required for an awareness of self, beyond awareness which does 
not include self?

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Defining GOD
DATE:    21-Nov-04 04:58:20
HOST:    sverige

>> Jack was said to be a Gnostic.

I'm quite familiar with Kerouac, and have read most of his published 
material.

What, in your terms, is a "Gnostic" ???


<RELIGION.21-Nov-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Defining GOD
DATE:    21-Nov-04 04:58:20
HOST:    sverige

>> Jack was said to be a Gnostic.

I'm quite familiar with Kerouac, and have read most of his published 
material.

What, in your terms, is a "Gnostic" ???


TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Defining GOD
DATE:    21-Nov-04 14:41:24
HOST:    sverige

OK, thanks David.

Now going back to 

"Someone once said, that the creation was the first instance of the voids 
awareness of itself, and that from this original act of consciousness, all 
successive enlayerings of consciousness have come, each covering the 
insight of the other and all seeking to hide the knowledge of the perfect 
emptiness of origins."

By forcing conscious toward external, and newer, things, attention to 
internal, and older, things wanes, and can become first inoperative and 
later forgotten. Perhaps the hiding of the knowledge of the perfect ... 
wasn't so much intentional as consequential?

Also, you've reminded me of this:

"to get really high is to forget yourself;
and to forget yourself is to see everything else;
and to see everything else is to become
an understanding molecule in evolution,
a conscious tool of the universe."

--Jerry Garcia

Meditation is indeed an exceedingly useful, if not essential, exercise.

Thanks.

<RELIGION.21-Nov-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Defining GOD
DATE:    21-Nov-04 14:41:24
HOST:    sverige

OK, thanks David.

Now going back to 

"Someone once said, that the creation was the first instance of the voids 
awareness of itself, and that from this original act of consciousness, all 
successive enlayerings of consciousness have come, each covering the 
insight of the other and all seeking to hide the knowledge of the perfect 
emptiness of origins."

By forcing conscious toward external, and newer, things, attention to 
internal, and older, things wanes, and can become first inoperative and 
later forgotten. Perhaps the hiding of the knowledge of the perfect ... 
wasn't so much intentional as consequential?

Also, you've reminded me of this:

"to get really high is to forget yourself;
and to forget yourself is to see everything else;
and to see everything else is to become
an understanding molecule in evolution,
a conscious tool of the universe."

--Jerry Garcia

Meditation is indeed an exceedingly useful, if not essential, exercise.

Thanks.

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Defining GOD
DATE:    28-Nov-04 16:15:26
HOST:    sverige

Jack, thanks for introducing the consideration of energy, and for sharing 
your thoughts, of which ...

"So, is energy God?  I think a better way of putting it would be that the
concept of God is our way of describing the summation of all energy.  Or,
think of it like this.  Energy working in a certain way exists as
molecules; molecules working in a certain way exist as people, people
working in a certain way exist as a community, and so on, ad infinitum,
until you reach the level of God, which is as far up as you can go."

I can support this perspective, and add that going inward, in the opposite 
direction, the resulting destination is the same, call it GOD or not, 
whether powering of ten outward or inward.

Considerations about GOD can be equally well applied to, or derived from, 
considerations about energy.

I'm not persuaded that omnipotence can be attributed to either.

And I don't see that energy and GOD are the same, or are generally 
equatable. For instance, I don't see that GOD exists in quite the variety 
of different states as does energy; I don't know that GOD is both positive 
and negative in the way energy can be.

Also, I don't know about any relationship between energy and will or 
understanding. Does energy have will or understanding? Do understanding and 
will have energy components or derivation?

Thanks,
--Avo


<RELIGION.28-Nov-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Defining GOD
DATE:    28-Nov-04 16:15:26
HOST:    sverige

Jack, thanks for introducing the consideration of energy, and for sharing 
your thoughts, of which ...

"So, is energy God?  I think a better way of putting it would be that the
concept of God is our way of describing the summation of all energy.  Or,
think of it like this.  Energy working in a certain way exists as
molecules; molecules working in a certain way exist as people, people
working in a certain way exist as a community, and so on, ad infinitum,
until you reach the level of God, which is as far up as you can go."

I can support this perspective, and add that going inward, in the opposite 
direction, the resulting destination is the same, call it GOD or not, 
whether powering of ten outward or inward.

Considerations about GOD can be equally well applied to, or derived from, 
considerations about energy.

I'm not persuaded that omnipotence can be attributed to either.

And I don't see that energy and GOD are the same, or are generally 
equatable. For instance, I don't see that GOD exists in quite the variety 
of different states as does energy; I don't know that GOD is both positive 
and negative in the way energy can be.

Also, I don't know about any relationship between energy and will or 
understanding. Does energy have will or understanding? Do understanding and 
will have energy components or derivation?

Thanks,
--Avo


TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Defining GOD
DATE:    30-Nov-04 13:02:47
HOST:    sverige

Jack, sorry about the in/out confusion. I was thinking of the experience of 
looking outward from self to the universe within which I exist; and also 
looking inward to examine who am I inside.

Also, not just looking from some place in between, but travelling outward 
and looking back within, from without; and likewise, examining the outward 
from deep within rather than on the surface.

Travelling outward and looking in; travellign inward and looking out; 
eventually seeing the same things; eventually meeting at the same place, at 
the opposite of 'self', or at least 'natural self'.

As to the will and understanding, consider also good/truth, love/wisdom, 
heart/lungs(or mind), freedom/rationality, motivation/reasoning, ...

... and their interrelationships, i.e. what is the interplay between 
motivation and reasoning which preceeds an action taken either on impulse 
or after long deliberation.

--Avo

<RELIGION.30-Nov-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Defining GOD
DATE:    30-Nov-04 13:02:47
HOST:    sverige

Jack, sorry about the in/out confusion. I was thinking of the experience of 
looking outward from self to the universe within which I exist; and also 
looking inward to examine who am I inside.

Also, not just looking from some place in between, but travelling outward 
and looking back within, from without; and likewise, examining the outward 
from deep within rather than on the surface.

Travelling outward and looking in; travellign inward and looking out; 
eventually seeing the same things; eventually meeting at the same place, at 
the opposite of 'self', or at least 'natural self'.

As to the will and understanding, consider also good/truth, love/wisdom, 
heart/lungs(or mind), freedom/rationality, motivation/reasoning, ...

... and their interrelationships, i.e. what is the interplay between 
motivation and reasoning which preceeds an action taken either on impulse 
or after long deliberation.

--Avo

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Defining GOD
DATE:    30-Nov-04 13:14:36
HOST:    sverige

momentum and friction are both energy, right?

<RELIGION.30-Nov-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Defining GOD
DATE:    30-Nov-04 13:14:36
HOST:    sverige

momentum and friction are both energy, right?

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Defining GOD
DATE:    30-Nov-04 13:18:29
HOST:    sverige

Derek,

In the natural world within which we interact, there are many wondrous 
things indeed, much of which still escapes our complete understanding. The 
development of a human embryo, the human immune system, the near certain 
knowledge that we only use or understand less than half of our brain, 
pebbles on a seashore, ...

There are many things which we readily accept without understanding, 
including perhaps gravity, conversion of light into heat or heat into 
light, propagation of sound through air in a manner which can be discerned 
from other sounds, etc.

... a great many things which we believe in, depend upon, and haven't the 
slightest understanding of how they work, or in some cases even proof that 
they exist.

"Why does a mirror reverse the image left-right and not top-bottom?"

I'm sure that several "laws of physics" are entirely dependent upon 
circumstantial evidence which would never be admissable in a judicial 
court.

While GOD may have manifestations in this natural world, it is not His 
universe. To have any marginal clue of understanding God requires a 
spiritual perspective which exists beyond the natural universe. The single 
greatest impediment to attaining this perspective is ego, the love of 
'self' and of power and money. This is what is meant by His word about 
being unable to worship both God and "mammon".

Peace,
--Avo

<RELIGION.30-Nov-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Defining GOD
DATE:    30-Nov-04 13:18:29
HOST:    sverige

Derek,

In the natural world within which we interact, there are many wondrous 
things indeed, much of which still escapes our complete understanding. The 
development of a human embryo, the human immune system, the near certain 
knowledge that we only use or understand less than half of our brain, 
pebbles on a seashore, ...

There are many things which we readily accept without understanding, 
including perhaps gravity, conversion of light into heat or heat into 
light, propagation of sound through air in a manner which can be discerned 
from other sounds, etc.

... a great many things which we believe in, depend upon, and haven't the 
slightest understanding of how they work, or in some cases even proof that 
they exist.

"Why does a mirror reverse the image left-right and not top-bottom?"

I'm sure that several "laws of physics" are entirely dependent upon 
circumstantial evidence which would never be admissable in a judicial 
court.

While GOD may have manifestations in this natural world, it is not His 
universe. To have any marginal clue of understanding God requires a 
spiritual perspective which exists beyond the natural universe. The single 
greatest impediment to attaining this perspective is ego, the love of 
'self' and of power and money. This is what is meant by His word about 
being unable to worship both God and "mammon".

Peace,
--Avo

.TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Is logic genetically controlled?
DATE:    20-Nov-04 23:14:04
HOST:    sverige

ioconnor, perhaps you should stick to politics. ;-}

>> The bible, christian religions, and all manner or these idiocies never
>> influenced me as a child. It's just something I thought about and
>> quickly came up with as a contradiction.

It's not very logical ... really ... to make pronouncements about, or 
express proficiency in, matters which you have quickly dismissed without 
more serious consideration.

Many serious dedicated and competent thinkers regard the appearance of 
contradiction as a challenge rather than an irrelevance; and when they have 
resolved the contradiction they have accomplished something of value.

In other words, it is not logical, or reasonable, or useful, to condemn 
that which you do not understand.

That said, please don't take it harshly. I appreciate your contributions to 
the general discourse here.

<RELIGION.20-Nov-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Is logic genetically controlled?
DATE:    20-Nov-04 23:14:04
HOST:    sverige

ioconnor, perhaps you should stick to politics. ;-}

>> The bible, christian religions, and all manner or these idiocies never
>> influenced me as a child. It's just something I thought about and
>> quickly came up with as a contradiction.

It's not very logical ... really ... to make pronouncements about, or 
express proficiency in, matters which you have quickly dismissed without 
more serious consideration.

Many serious dedicated and competent thinkers regard the appearance of 
contradiction as a challenge rather than an irrelevance; and when they have 
resolved the contradiction they have accomplished something of value.

In other words, it is not logical, or reasonable, or useful, to condemn 
that which you do not understand.

That said, please don't take it harshly. I appreciate your contributions to 
the general discourse here.

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Is logic genetically controlled?
DATE:    21-Nov-04 14:26:02
HOST:    sverige

OK. So we drop the omnipotent attribute, and assert that the natural events 
of our lives are caused by nature or by humans, that God does not exercise 
control over these things even if He could.

That leaves us, not Godless, but with a God who is still omniscient and 
omnipresent; who is still goodness and truth, in their purest and most 
absolute forms.

<RELIGION.21-Nov-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Is logic genetically controlled?
DATE:    21-Nov-04 14:26:02
HOST:    sverige

OK. So we drop the omnipotent attribute, and assert that the natural events 
of our lives are caused by nature or by humans, that God does not exercise 
control over these things even if He could.

That leaves us, not Godless, but with a God who is still omniscient and 
omnipresent; who is still goodness and truth, in their purest and most 
absolute forms.

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Is logic genetically controlled?
DATE:    28-Nov-04 16:30:43
HOST:    sverige

io, "So if he's not everything then there must be something beyond that 
"god".

Reverse. Since there is nothing beyond God, by any definition, then ...

That does not mean that God is everything, so much as that God is within or 
the source of everything. 

None of which has anything to do with the human fantasy of omnipotence.

"You are basically wanting to worship anything that comes your way."

"You" WHO? Not ME.



<RELIGION.28-Nov-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Is logic genetically controlled?
DATE:    28-Nov-04 16:30:43
HOST:    sverige

io, "So if he's not everything then there must be something beyond that 
"god".

Reverse. Since there is nothing beyond God, by any definition, then ...

That does not mean that God is everything, so much as that God is within or 
the source of everything. 

None of which has anything to do with the human fantasy of omnipotence.

"You are basically wanting to worship anything that comes your way."

"You" WHO? Not ME.



TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Is logic genetically controlled?
DATE:    30-Nov-04 12:56:35
HOST:    sverige

"lets rip the Christian bible and all things based on it's obvious 
stupidity."

Let's see. If *you* don't understand it, *who* is stupid?


<RELIGION.30-Nov-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Is logic genetically controlled?
DATE:    30-Nov-04 12:56:35
HOST:    sverige

"lets rip the Christian bible and all things based on it's obvious 
stupidity."

Let's see. If *you* don't understand it, *who* is stupid?


........TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. QUIT command
DATE:    04-Dec-04 23:59:33
HOST:    sverige

For what do you use 'quit'?
For disconnecting the shell session, try 'logout' or 'logoff' (I forget 
which one works).

<REQUESTS.04-Dec-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. QUIT command
DATE:    04-Dec-04 23:59:33
HOST:    sverige

For what do you use 'quit'?
For disconnecting the shell session, try 'logout' or 'logoff' (I forget 
which one works).

.TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. kr4sh wants ARPA paid for him
DATE:    05-Dec-04 22:06:18
HOST:    sverige

Krash, if you'd go out into the neighborhood and do chores for $5/hr you 
could be ARPA within a week; and have earned it.

Until then, I may just send in $36 to keep you out; but that'd be just as 
shitty a precedent as letting you in.

Bon Voyage,

<REQUESTS.05-Dec-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. kr4sh wants ARPA paid for him
DATE:    05-Dec-04 22:06:18
HOST:    sverige

Krash, if you'd go out into the neighborhood and do chores for $5/hr you 
could be ARPA within a week; and have earned it.

Until then, I may just send in $36 to keep you out; but that'd be just as 
shitty a precedent as letting you in.

Bon Voyage,

...............TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. nmap
DATE:    03-Dec-04 00:21:42
HOST:    sverige

it was said, "It works for everyone... Users, ARPA, MetaArpa, whatever."

it was observed, on sverige:
$ nmap
bash: /usr/pkg/bin/nmap: Permission denied

say lah vee

<REQUESTS.03-Dec-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. nmap
DATE:    03-Dec-04 00:21:42
HOST:    sverige

it was said, "It works for everyone... Users, ARPA, MetaArpa, whatever."

it was observed, on sverige:
$ nmap
bash: /usr/pkg/bin/nmap: Permission denied

say lah vee

...TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. BBoard feature
DATE:    29-Nov-04 12:30:52
HOST:    sverige

in the meanwhile, you CAN use bboard to <S>earch for your name.

Cheers,

<REQUESTS.29-Nov-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. BBoard feature
DATE:    29-Nov-04 12:30:52
HOST:    sverige

in the meanwhile, you CAN use bboard to <S>earch for your name.

Cheers,

............TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. Let's end the internet
DATE:    24-Sep-04 18:20:27
HOST:    sverige

spam it into oblivion by renewing Enron-Halliburton'00

<STARTPORN.24-Sep-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. Let's end the internet
DATE:    24-Sep-04 18:20:27
HOST:    sverige

spam it into oblivion by renewing Enron-Halliburton'00

.......TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Ask yourself this ..
DATE:    28-Dec-04 04:44:15
HOST:    sverige

Attributing earthquakes, volcanoes, floods, drought, weather, etc. 
demonstrates a complete failure to understand either natural science or 
God. 



<TIDALWAVE.28-Dec-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Ask yourself this ..
DATE:    28-Dec-04 04:44:15
HOST:    sverige

Attributing earthquakes, volcanoes, floods, drought, weather, etc. 
demonstrates a complete failure to understand either natural science or 
God. 



..TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. sites not publically listed
DATE:    19-Oct-04 18:41:52
HOST:    sverige

How do I determine if a site is public or not? I can view it from outside 
of my login. Isn't that public? Does that mean that it is in the roulette?

<TREASURE.19-Oct-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. sites not publically listed
DATE:    19-Oct-04 18:41:52
HOST:    sverige

How do I determine if a site is public or not? I can view it from outside 
of my login. Isn't that public? Does that mean that it is in the roulette?

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. sites not publically listed
DATE:    19-Oct-04 21:31:16
HOST:    ukato

are there lists which I can check to see if my site is public?

<TREASURE.19-Oct-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. sites not publically listed
DATE:    19-Oct-04 21:31:16
HOST:    ukato

are there lists which I can check to see if my site is public?

.TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. sites not publically listed
DATE:    19-Oct-04 21:45:12
HOST:    sverige

<sigh>

<TREASURE.19-Oct-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. sites not publically listed
DATE:    19-Oct-04 21:45:12
HOST:    sverige

<sigh>

TACKER:  smj (Stephen Jones)
SUBJECT: .. sites not publically listed
DATE:    19-Oct-04 21:46:54
HOST:    vinland

Hey, you should try 'help' or 'faq' sometime:

$ url avoyager
avoyager's domain is not publically listed.


<TREASURE.19-Oct-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  smj (Stephen Jones)
SUBJECT: .. sites not publically listed
DATE:    19-Oct-04 21:46:54
HOST:    vinland

Hey, you should try 'help' or 'faq' sometime:

$ url avoyager
avoyager's domain is not publically listed.


TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. sites not publically listed
DATE:    19-Oct-04 22:05:05
HOST:    sverige

Hey, you're right. I actually do read FAQ and HELP, more often than twice a 
month; just not very well it seems ;-}

I even tried to read 'mkhomepg' today before pursuing this, or blindly 
running it.

Thanks again for your patience and guidance.

<TREASURE.19-Oct-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. sites not publically listed
DATE:    19-Oct-04 22:05:05
HOST:    sverige

Hey, you're right. I actually do read FAQ and HELP, more often than twice a 
month; just not very well it seems ;-}

I even tried to read 'mkhomepg' today before pursuing this, or blindly 
running it.

Thanks again for your patience and guidance.

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. fashistoid logo?
DATE:    26-Oct-04 11:47:45
HOST:    sverige

that challenges the rating system; nice looking, do-nothing, page.

mak.freeshell.org has been randomly generated 5 times
and currently has a score of -7 with a rank of 3493


<TREASURE.26-Oct-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. fashistoid logo?
DATE:    26-Oct-04 11:47:45
HOST:    sverige

that challenges the rating system; nice looking, do-nothing, page.

mak.freeshell.org has been randomly generated 5 times
and currently has a score of -7 with a rank of 3493


........TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. rob pike, one of the progenitors of unix, says it sucks
DATE:    19-Oct-04 14:27:43
HOST:    sverige

unix is not not arcane
microsoft is is evil
luddites are are not morons

<UNIX.19-Oct-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager ()
SUBJECT: .. rob pike, one of the progenitors of unix, says it sucks
DATE:    19-Oct-04 14:27:43
HOST:    sverige

unix is not not arcane
microsoft is is evil
luddites are are not morons

.TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. I'm Sick of it!
DATE:    15-Dec-04 14:01:46
HOST:    sverige

It's not true that more than 50% of Americans like it that way. Less than
25% of eligible voters supported BushCo in 2004.

The same figures do not apply in the halls of Government however, where
nearly *everybody* is lined up behind the dingus and blinded by its
ideologies of capitalist control over ALL of the world's resources.

Tough days for everyone. everywhere.

<WAR.15-Dec-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. I'm Sick of it!
DATE:    15-Dec-04 14:01:46
HOST:    sverige

It's not true that more than 50% of Americans like it that way. Less than
25% of eligible voters supported BushCo in 2004.

The same figures do not apply in the halls of Government however, where
nearly *everybody* is lined up behind the dingus and blinded by its
ideologies of capitalist control over ALL of the world's resources.

Tough days for everyone. everywhere.

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Next President?
DATE:    21-Dec-04 19:41:17
HOST:    sverige

now that the takeover is complete and un-challenged, it'll either be 
Ahnaald, or look for a constitutional amendment to enable the current 
doofus to stay forever.

Don't change horses in mid-Apocolypse.

<WAR.21-Dec-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. Next President?
DATE:    21-Dec-04 19:41:17
HOST:    sverige

now that the takeover is complete and un-challenged, it'll either be 
Ahnaald, or look for a constitutional amendment to enable the current 
doofus to stay forever.

Don't change horses in mid-Apocolypse.

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. James Blake Miller - the face of Falluja
DATE:    01-Dec-04 03:22:54
HOST:    sverige

it was said here that "America is dealing with a serious threat that is ... 
caused by idiots with nothing better to do other than to hate."

This is a fallacy held and put forth by many partisan uninformed and 
malinformed people.  (propaganda aka FUD)

Just before U.S. Thanksgiving holiday, and widely reported in the real 
(non-corporate) news this week, the Pentagon (Defense Science Board) 
quietly released a report clearly acknowledging what the liberal horde has 
been saying all along, that:

"The United States is losing the war of ideas in the Islamic world, failing 
to elucidate its policies to Muslims wary of American intentions and 
"self-serving hypocrisy," a Pentagon advisory panel has found. ... The 
toughly worded report said that while America's efforts to explain its 
policies have failed, improved public relations efforts cannot sell faulty 
policies. "Muslims do not hate our freedom, but rather they hate our 
policies," the panel stated.

You can easily find reviews and reports on this via a web search.

and it's not just Muslims.


<WAR.01-Dec-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. James Blake Miller - the face of Falluja
DATE:    01-Dec-04 03:22:54
HOST:    sverige

it was said here that "America is dealing with a serious threat that is ... 
caused by idiots with nothing better to do other than to hate."

This is a fallacy held and put forth by many partisan uninformed and 
malinformed people.  (propaganda aka FUD)

Just before U.S. Thanksgiving holiday, and widely reported in the real 
(non-corporate) news this week, the Pentagon (Defense Science Board) 
quietly released a report clearly acknowledging what the liberal horde has 
been saying all along, that:

"The United States is losing the war of ideas in the Islamic world, failing 
to elucidate its policies to Muslims wary of American intentions and 
"self-serving hypocrisy," a Pentagon advisory panel has found. ... The 
toughly worded report said that while America's efforts to explain its 
policies have failed, improved public relations efforts cannot sell faulty 
policies. "Muslims do not hate our freedom, but rather they hate our 
policies," the panel stated.

You can easily find reviews and reports on this via a web search.

and it's not just Muslims.


TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. James Blake Miller - the face of Falluja
DATE:    01-Dec-04 14:01:52
HOST:    sverige

"If you have been there and looked the threat in the face, which I'm 
guessing you haven't, then you would know this is BS."

This implies that you have been there. Have you? And when you asked folks 
why they dislike America, what responses did you receive?


"How can you explain why uneducated, uninformed people want all Americans
dead? Is this due to some insightful ideology formed after careful
consideration?"

Easy enough. Uneducated uninformed people, have beliefs which are imposed 
upon them by sources which are either trusted, or too few to distinguish. 
They're not really uninformed, they're misinformed, or they've 
misunderstood.

For instance, it could be said that Americans are evil for occupying our 
country and pillaging our resources; and that'd be fair and accurate.  From 
this knowledge, animosity and hatred are derivatives, not primaries.

Don't remain and simultaneously condemn the uneducated. Study the matter 
for yourself. Here's a second lead for you.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/1129/dailyUpdate.html





<WAR.01-Dec-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. James Blake Miller - the face of Falluja
DATE:    01-Dec-04 14:01:52
HOST:    sverige

"If you have been there and looked the threat in the face, which I'm 
guessing you haven't, then you would know this is BS."

This implies that you have been there. Have you? And when you asked folks 
why they dislike America, what responses did you receive?


"How can you explain why uneducated, uninformed people want all Americans
dead? Is this due to some insightful ideology formed after careful
consideration?"

Easy enough. Uneducated uninformed people, have beliefs which are imposed 
upon them by sources which are either trusted, or too few to distinguish. 
They're not really uninformed, they're misinformed, or they've 
misunderstood.

For instance, it could be said that Americans are evil for occupying our 
country and pillaging our resources; and that'd be fair and accurate.  From 
this knowledge, animosity and hatred are derivatives, not primaries.

Don't remain and simultaneously condemn the uneducated. Study the matter 
for yourself. Here's a second lead for you.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/1129/dailyUpdate.html





TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. James Blake Miller - the face of Falluja
DATE:    01-Dec-04 14:27:29
HOST:    sverige

Otto,

"how on earth does the above relate to the war in Iraque? Why was or is 
Iraque a serious threat for America?"

There are by now two distinctly different perspectives which need to remain 
separated.

The first is from before the 2003 U.S. invasion of Iraq. Iraq was NOT a 
threat, direct or indirect, to the U.S. Nor was it in any way aligned with 
BinLaden. Those fantasies are the willful propagandizing of its citizens by 
the Bush regime.

See the recent BBC Documentary, "The Power of Nightmares" if you get the 
chance. It shows how both the U.S. neo-cons and the Islamists were 
marginalized to the point of defeated, prior to the 9/11/01 attacks upon 
the World Trade Center. 

The second perspective is from the occupying forces which no doubt do 
indeed face hatred in they eyes of the occupied who wish to be free from 
the occupiers.

It was never a "free Iraqis" mission. The mission was declared accomplished 
when forces were permanently in place, not in control. Remember, clearly, 
...

there never was an exit strategy, because there was never an intent to 
exit.

Every analysis of the 2003 invasion has acknowledged that radical 
fundamentalism has increased, both amongst Islamists and U.S. Christians, 
since their respective countries were invaded by the other. People of all 
races resist being attacked in their own homes.



<WAR.01-Dec-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. James Blake Miller - the face of Falluja
DATE:    01-Dec-04 14:27:29
HOST:    sverige

Otto,

"how on earth does the above relate to the war in Iraque? Why was or is 
Iraque a serious threat for America?"

There are by now two distinctly different perspectives which need to remain 
separated.

The first is from before the 2003 U.S. invasion of Iraq. Iraq was NOT a 
threat, direct or indirect, to the U.S. Nor was it in any way aligned with 
BinLaden. Those fantasies are the willful propagandizing of its citizens by 
the Bush regime.

See the recent BBC Documentary, "The Power of Nightmares" if you get the 
chance. It shows how both the U.S. neo-cons and the Islamists were 
marginalized to the point of defeated, prior to the 9/11/01 attacks upon 
the World Trade Center. 

The second perspective is from the occupying forces which no doubt do 
indeed face hatred in they eyes of the occupied who wish to be free from 
the occupiers.

It was never a "free Iraqis" mission. The mission was declared accomplished 
when forces were permanently in place, not in control. Remember, clearly, 
...

there never was an exit strategy, because there was never an intent to 
exit.

Every analysis of the 2003 invasion has acknowledged that radical 
fundamentalism has increased, both amongst Islamists and U.S. Christians, 
since their respective countries were invaded by the other. People of all 
races resist being attacked in their own homes.



.TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. James Blake Miller - the face of Falluja
DATE:    01-Dec-04 18:03:36
HOST:    sverige

Killing all Americans is a plan which will only exterminate yourselves. You 
cannot accomplish this feat. You don't have napalm, even if you would or 
could use it. Only because of U.S. babies and anti-war liberals it hasn't 
been used on all Muslims already by U.S.

Nobody should provoke extremists unnecessarily. It is only a very bad idea 
which backfires.

Somewhere in the Koran, especially if it is from Allah, it should say 
something about being smarter than that, and kinder.

eh?


<WAR.01-Dec-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. James Blake Miller - the face of Falluja
DATE:    01-Dec-04 18:03:36
HOST:    sverige

Killing all Americans is a plan which will only exterminate yourselves. You 
cannot accomplish this feat. You don't have napalm, even if you would or 
could use it. Only because of U.S. babies and anti-war liberals it hasn't 
been used on all Muslims already by U.S.

Nobody should provoke extremists unnecessarily. It is only a very bad idea 
which backfires.

Somewhere in the Koran, especially if it is from Allah, it should say 
something about being smarter than that, and kinder.

eh?


TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. James Blake Miller - the face of Falluja
DATE:    01-Dec-04 18:27:46
HOST:    sverige

That is a severely extremist view, dude. Muslims, Jews, and Christians 
lived together peacefully in Jerusalem until the Crusades; and throughout 
Africa for many generations until quite recently.

*Those* Muslims obviously did not believe in killing all their neighbors, 
and Allah did not strike *them* dead.

So, maybe you've got it wrong?

<WAR.01-Dec-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. James Blake Miller - the face of Falluja
DATE:    01-Dec-04 18:27:46
HOST:    sverige

That is a severely extremist view, dude. Muslims, Jews, and Christians 
lived together peacefully in Jerusalem until the Crusades; and throughout 
Africa for many generations until quite recently.

*Those* Muslims obviously did not believe in killing all their neighbors, 
and Allah did not strike *them* dead.

So, maybe you've got it wrong?

TACKER:  albakry ()
SUBJECT: .. James Blake Miller - the face of Falluja
DATE:    02-Dec-04 03:29:51
HOST:    sdf

jbaber is right, you never see real Muslims "face to face".  That is why 
you think I am "extreme."  I am not extreme, i am just a real muslim.  That 
is why avoyager thinks i am extreme.  You think Americans think everybody 
is nice like you.  That is racist, you do not understand how any other 
culture could be different.  Well we Muslims are different.  We know Allah 
does not want  us to be nice to infidels.  Allah commands us to be nice to 
the faithful only.  If an infidel becomes Muslim, we accept him.  
Otherwise, we kill him.  

Wehaa say its like Hitler.  Hitler at least understood you are not supposed 
to be nice to jews.  He tried to kill them all, but he failed because he 
did not acept Islam.   He was better than most infidels, but he did not 
acept Islam so he was still infidel and ultimately he was destroyed also.

The Muslims who let the jews and christians live in Jerusalem did not 
understand.  They were like Muslim infidels.  Allah punished them by 
sending crusaders against them, then punished the crussaders and destroyed 
them too.

That Sura 2.62 you misunderstand.  When it says 'those who are Jews, and 
the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last 
day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord' that means 
they have their reward when they BELIEVE IN ALLAH.  That means when they 
accept Islam.  If you are born to a jew family or a christian family or 
sabian family (they are no more of them, we killed them all), and you 
accept Islam, you get your reward.  But if you stay jew or christian we 
kill you like we killed the sabians who did not accept Allah the 
All-Merciful.

The only answer is Islam.  If you do not accept Islam you die.  Allah give 
us the duty to kill you and your children, even your babies.  All true 
Muslims want to kill you.

Mohammed

<WAR.02-Dec-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  albakry ()
SUBJECT: .. James Blake Miller - the face of Falluja
DATE:    02-Dec-04 03:29:51
HOST:    sdf

jbaber is right, you never see real Muslims "face to face".  That is why 
you think I am "extreme."  I am not extreme, i am just a real muslim.  That 
is why avoyager thinks i am extreme.  You think Americans think everybody 
is nice like you.  That is racist, you do not understand how any other 
culture could be different.  Well we Muslims are different.  We know Allah 
does not want  us to be nice to infidels.  Allah commands us to be nice to 
the faithful only.  If an infidel becomes Muslim, we accept him.  
Otherwise, we kill him.  

Wehaa say its like Hitler.  Hitler at least understood you are not supposed 
to be nice to jews.  He tried to kill them all, but he failed because he 
did not acept Islam.   He was better than most infidels, but he did not 
acept Islam so he was still infidel and ultimately he was destroyed also.

The Muslims who let the jews and christians live in Jerusalem did not 
understand.  They were like Muslim infidels.  Allah punished them by 
sending crusaders against them, then punished the crussaders and destroyed 
them too.

That Sura 2.62 you misunderstand.  When it says 'those who are Jews, and 
the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last 
day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord' that means 
they have their reward when they BELIEVE IN ALLAH.  That means when they 
accept Islam.  If you are born to a jew family or a christian family or 
sabian family (they are no more of them, we killed them all), and you 
accept Islam, you get your reward.  But if you stay jew or christian we 
kill you like we killed the sabians who did not accept Allah the 
All-Merciful.

The only answer is Islam.  If you do not accept Islam you die.  Allah give 
us the duty to kill you and your children, even your babies.  All true 
Muslims want to kill you.

Mohammed

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. James Blake Miller - the face of Falluja
DATE:    02-Dec-04 13:42:42
HOST:    sverige

"The Muslims who let the jews and christians live in Jerusalem did not
understand.  They were like Muslim infidels.  Allah punished them by
sending crusaders against them, then punished the crussaders and destroyed
them too."

It goes to show that Al and his fringe extremists are as wacko as the 
fringe extremists on the Christian right. Allah sided with the Crusaders!?! 
Indeed, it shows that you know nothing about Allah/God. Did you escape 
Jonestown? and follow the "Left Behind" Guidebook?

Al, your views are no better, no more useful, no more correct, and no 
more Divine, than those of the little low life who says

"Look, our strategy is to create chaos, to create a vacuum...
We will export death and violence to the four corners of the earth 
in defense of our great nation."  
--pResident George W Bush, 2002.



<WAR.02-Dec-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. James Blake Miller - the face of Falluja
DATE:    02-Dec-04 13:42:42
HOST:    sverige

"The Muslims who let the jews and christians live in Jerusalem did not
understand.  They were like Muslim infidels.  Allah punished them by
sending crusaders against them, then punished the crussaders and destroyed
them too."

It goes to show that Al and his fringe extremists are as wacko as the 
fringe extremists on the Christian right. Allah sided with the Crusaders!?! 
Indeed, it shows that you know nothing about Allah/God. Did you escape 
Jonestown? and follow the "Left Behind" Guidebook?

Al, your views are no better, no more useful, no more correct, and no 
more Divine, than those of the little low life who says

"Look, our strategy is to create chaos, to create a vacuum...
We will export death and violence to the four corners of the earth 
in defense of our great nation."  
--pResident George W Bush, 2002.



TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. James Blake Miller - the face of Falluja
DATE:    02-Dec-04 14:01:30
HOST:    sverige

Thanks, jbaber, that was good stuff. I read it all. Twice; but that doesn't 
intend to suggest that you should do more of it than you're comfortable 
with.

--Avo

<WAR.02-Dec-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. James Blake Miller - the face of Falluja
DATE:    02-Dec-04 14:01:30
HOST:    sverige

Thanks, jbaber, that was good stuff. I read it all. Twice; but that doesn't 
intend to suggest that you should do more of it than you're comfortable 
with.

--Avo

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. War IS Terrorism
DATE:    02-Dec-04 13:38:18
HOST:    sverige

Jihad is an internal battle against your personal evils. Externalizing it 
to violence against remote civilizations has never been Allah's intent, you 
can be certain.

<WAR.02-Dec-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. War IS Terrorism
DATE:    02-Dec-04 13:38:18
HOST:    sverige

Jihad is an internal battle against your personal evils. Externalizing it 
to violence against remote civilizations has never been Allah's intent, you 
can be certain.

....TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. .htaccess
DATE:    09-Dec-04 02:54:07
HOST:    sverige

That was very kind of you to set that up, vosi.

I see that the reason my HEADER and README files were not being read, ...

---from .htaccess:
HeaderName HEADER
ReadmeName README
---end paste

... was that they did not have .html filenames; neither the files nor their
specification in .htaccess

Thanks again for your gracious assistance. Note that in order to "disable"
the icon display, I use

IndexOptions IconHeight=1 IconWidth=1

--Avo

<WEB.09-Dec-04>[ <ENTER> to CONT, (J)UMP or (Q)UIT ] CONT

TACKER:  avoyager (Avo Yager)
SUBJECT: .. .htaccess
DATE:    09-Dec-04 02:54:07
HOST:    sverige

That was very kind of you to set that up, vosi.

I see that the reason my HEADER and README files were not being read, ...

---from .htaccess:
HeaderName HEADER
ReadmeName README
---end paste

... was that they did not have .html filenames; neither the files nor their
specification in .htaccess

Thanks again for your gracious assistance. Note that in order to "disable"
the icon display, I use

IndexOptions IconHeight=1 IconWidth=1

--Avo

.............. [OK]
<none> Command: 
% Type (H)ELP for Commands.
<none> Command: 
% Type (H)ELP for Commands.
<none> Command: 
% Type (H)ELP for Commands.
<none> Command: 
% Type (H)ELP for Commands.
<none> Command: 
% Type (H)ELP for Commands.
<none> Command: 
% Type (H)ELP for Commands.
<none> Command: 
% Type (H)ELP for Commands.
<none> Command: 
% Type (H)ELP for Commands.
<none> Command: 
% One ENTER is enough.
<none> Command: 
% Type (H)ELP for Commands.
<none> Command: QUIT