9-Jan-89 15:42:02-PST,1267;000000000000 Return-Path: <@CORNELLC.ccs.cornell.edu:rmf%Janus.MRC.AdhocNet.CA@UNCAEDU.BITnet> Received: from CORNELLC.ccs.cornell.edu by SCORE.STANFORD.EDU with TCP; Mon 9 Jan 89 15:39:27-PST Received: from UNCAEDU.BITnet by CORNELLC.ccs.cornell.edu (IBM VM SMTP R1.2) with BSMTP id 1193; Mon, 09 Jan 89 18:39:59 EST Received: from Janus.MRC.AdhocNet.CA by UcEdu.UNCA.AdhocNet.CA with DECNET ; Mon, 9 Jan 89 16:35:12 MST Date: Mon, 9 Jan 89 16:33:48 MST From: rmf%Janus.MRC.AdhocNet.CA%UNCAEDU.BITNET@CORNELLC.ccs.cornell.edu (Russ Forster) Message-Id: <890109163348.01j@Janus.MRC.AdhocNet.CA> Subject: Bliss-36 help To: tops-20@score.stanford.edu I'm trying to allocate a table of a size of %o5000 in size. It appears the BLISS's default size(stacksize) is 1000. I've search through the books and can't seem to find a way to increase the size of the stack. Any of you BLISSophites still out there? /Russ ----- Russell M. Forster, Systems Programmer II. Mount Royal College DECnet: RMF @ Janus Computer Operations BITnet: RForster @ UncaEdu.BITnet 4825 Richard Rd. S.W. ICBM: 51 03 N / 114 05 W Calgary, Alberta Phone: (403) 240-6052 T3E 6K6 11-Jan-89 09:20:55-PST,11507;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from TOPS20.DEC.COM by SCORE.STANFORD.EDU with TCP; Wed 11 Jan 89 09:19:22-PST Date: 11 Jan 1989 1220-EST From: "Joe Dempster, DTN 336.2023, AT&T 609.273.2023" To: tops20@score.stanford.edu Subject: PDP-10 hacker featured in today's NYT's Message-ID: <"MS11(6044)+GLXLIB6(0)" 12461728668.215.30.2128 at TOPS20.DEC.COM> The New York Times January 11, 1989 Section: Business Day, page D1 One Man's Fight for Free Software By John Markoff Richard M. Stallman is a computer programmer obsessed with a mission. He wants to bring back the good old days when programming was a communal activity and those toiling at the craft freely shared their ideas - and their source code, the internal instructions that tell the computer what to do. Mr. Stallman, known among his coleagues as "The Last Hacker" has spent the last decade battling a computer software industry that increasing builds ownership walls around intellectual property. He believes that computer software should be freely shared and devotes himself to creating sophisticated programs that he gives away. He spends his days and nights in a cramped office at the Massachussets Institute of Technology's Artificial Intelligence Laboratory working to spread his philosophy that software is different from other physical commodities since it can be copied at virtually no cost. He believes there should be no restrictions on freely copying and distributing it. Mr. Stallman's ideas have gained increasing importance of late because the computer industry has been moving toward "open" software that will run on may different brands of computers. Consortiums of computer companies have formed to champion their version of the open software, based on the popular Unix computer software operating system. But Mr. Stallman carries the idea on step further. Not only should the software run on different computers, but it should also be free. Mr. Stallman is doing nothing illegal, but his is an argument that raises bitter objections from many programmers and companies. They counter that protecting intellectual property is vital to encouraging innovation. During the last two decades intellectual property protection has become the foundation of the moderm software industry. However, Mr. Stallman asserts that what he calls "the use of human knowledge for personal gain" has had a negative impact because information is no longer widely shared. "It's impossible to do anything without copying something that has come before," he said. "People talk about the bad effects of government secrecy in Russia. The U.S. is heading for the same place in terms of commercial software." In a manifesto that outlines his philosophy, Mr. Stallman says that software sellers want to divide the users and conquer them by making each agree not to share with others. "I have decided to put together a sufficient body of free software so that I will be able to get along without any software that is not "free." he writes. Perhaps Mr. Stallman's concept of free software would be easier to dismiss if he was not universally considered - even by his enemies - to be one of the nation's most outstanding programmers. And his body of software is considered distinguished by industry experts. The computer industry is now evenly split between two giant consortiums that each claim to champion open software systems based on the Unix System. They contend that the open systems will emancipate the computer user from a single company's private standards. One has allied I.B.M., The Digital Equipment Corporation and others opposite American Telephone and Telegraph and Sun Microsystems. Mr. Stallman is somewhere in the middle and his alterative of truly free software is gaining attention - and credibility. For example, Steve Jobs's Next computer comes bundled with Mr. Stallman's free software, and a number of other computer companies, including the Sony Corporation, Sun, the Hewelett-Packard Company, the Intel Corporation and the Data General Corporation, are now giving support to aid Mr. Stallman's develoment work. From his outpost on the M.I.T. Campus Mr. Stallman operates the Free Software Foundation, a loosely run organization of part-time staff members and volunteers that is now well on its way to creating a complete software system called GNU. The name is a Mobius strip-like acronym that stands for "GNU's not Unix." When complete, GNU will include a computer operating system and all the tools needed by programmers to design and write the most sophisticated applications for a wide variety of computers. It will also include word processors, spreadsheets, data base managers and communication software, making it just as useful to non-programmers. It is a Herculean undertaking, comparable to those that corporations like I.B.M., D.E.C. and A.T.&T. each devote millions of dollars and hundreds of programmers to annually. But unlike commercial software ventures, GNU programs are distributed with source code, the original programmer's instructions. This permits any user to modify the program or improve it. While most software companies jealously guard their source code, Mr. Stallman argues that by freely sharing it he has created a software community in which each programmer contributes improvements, thereby bettering the program for all. Mr. Stallman, who likes to be called by his initials, R.M.S., forged his values as a member of an elite group of M.I.T. computer hackers who, during the 1960's and 70's, conducted pioneering research in developing the world's first minicomputers and the first time-sharing computers. M.I.T., which is where the term hacker was born, also served as the incubator for many early computer hardware and software companies. In that community, software was freely shared among the hackers, who would build their work on the earlier programming efforts of their friends. While the press has come to identify the term hacker with malicious individuals who break into computers over telephone lines, the hackers themselves have an earlier and different definition. A hacker, Mr. Stallman said, is one who "acts in the spirit of creative playfulness." But while hacking began as intellecutal sport and became a way of life in the Mid-1970's, many of the hackers who had participated in the tightly knit community of computer researchers left to take advantage of lucrative employment opportunities at the new companies. Only Mr. Stallman remained behind, intent on carrying on the traditions. The breakup of the hacker community embittered him and for several years he labored in solitude intent on the incredible task of matching the world's best programmers, writing for free the same programs they were developing on a for-profit basis at their new companies. In his book "Hackers," Steven Levy describes how during 1982 and 1983 Mr. Stallman matched the work of more than a "dozen world-class hackers" at Symbolics Inc., rewriting their programs and then placing them in the public domain. "He believes that information should be free and he interprets it in the most literal fashion," Mr. Levy said in an interview. "Most hackers make accommodations with the way the world works. Stallman doesn't want to make those concessions. He's a total idealist." Some computer scientists believe there is a place for Mr. Stallman's free software. "There is room in the world for free stuff and commercial stuff," said Brian Harvey, a computer science lecturer at the University of California at Berkeley. "We don't have to take over the world. Its good enough that I can run his software on my computer." The most popular GNU program is an extremely flexible editing program known as Emacs. The software package, originally written by Mr. Stallman at M.I.T. in the early 1970's, has become one of the most widely used - and imitated - programming editors. Another widely used GNU program is a compiler, a program that translates text into a form that can be executed by a computer. For a programmer, a compiler and editor are equivalent to a Carpenter's hammer and saw, the two most important tools of the craft. Emacs's popularity is due to its flexibility, programmers say. An entire computer language is embedded in the program, giving it the utility equivalent to that of a Swiss Army Knife. For tens of thousands of programmers Emacs has become virtually the only program they use because they can fashion it into a data base, word processor, appointment calendar or whatever else they need. "You start up Emacs and you never leave it," said Russell Brand, a computer scientist at Lawrence Livermore Laboratories in Livermore, Calif. GNU software is freely distributed, but in a different manner from public domain and "freeware" software among personal computer users. While public domain software can be freely copied, freeware authors ask users to contribute a fee if they find a program useful. In contrast, GNU programs are not placed in the public domain. Instead they are distributed with a public license that Mr. Stallman calls a "copyleft." This license insures that the software will stay freely copyable and not be incorporated into a for-profit program. While Mr Stallman's software is widely used at universities and research centers and by professional programmers, his zealous commitment to the idea of free software has angered others. Several years ago the idea led to a bitter dispute when executives at Unipress Software Inc., an Edison, N.J., company that sells a commercial version of Emacs, pointed out that some of their code appeared in a version of Mr. Stallman's Emacs. The problem stemmed from the fact that Mr. Stallman had decided that because the original idea of Emacs was his, he could freely borrow parts of a version written by another programmer, James Gosling, who now works at Sun. While a student at Carnegie Mellon University in Pittsburgh, Mr. Gosling had written his own version of Emacs and distributed it to friends before giving it to Unipress to sell commercially. Mr. Stallman said he had been told by a friend of Mr. Gosling's that he could use parts of the program. Angry messages passed back and forth over computer networks before Mr. Stallman decided that the way to end the dispute was simply to rewrite the offending passages. "We thought it was a little ironic," said Mark Krieger, president of Unipress. "He says he plans on taking on the giants and then the first company he goes after is little Unipress." Despite the remaining betterness over the quarrel, Mr. Krieger said he had great respect for Mr. Stallman's programming prowess. "I would give him negative credit for his ideas on free software," he said, "but give him a lot of positive credit as a brilliant design engineer and the creator of the first Emacs." Today although he uses an office at the M.I.T. Artificial Intelligence Laboratory, he is no longer a staff member. He resigned a number of years ago when he set out to create the GNU software system. He makes a living as a part-time software consultant. -------- 12-Jan-89 15:02:36-PST,799;000000000000 Mail-From: VAF created at 12-Jan-89 15:00:25 Date: Thu 12 Jan 89 15:00:25-PST From: Vince Fuller Subject: Re: Bliss-36 help To: rmf%Janus.MRC.AdhocNet.CA%UNCAEDU.BITNET@CORNELLC.CIT.CORNELL.EDU cc: tops-20@Score.Stanford.EDU In-Reply-To: <890109163348.01j@Janus.MRC.AdhocNet.CA> Office: Pine Hall 167 Phone: 415-723-6860 Message-ID: <12462052769.19.VAF@Score.Stanford.EDU> There is an ENVIRONMENT option in the module header that specifies the "segment-name" (the name of some chunk of OWN or GLOBAL storage) to be used as the PDL. The syntax is: MODULE FOO(ENVIRONMENT(STACK=MYSTACK)) = ... This is covered in the BLISS language guide in chapter 19. Vince Fuller, Stanford University (former TOPS-20 and BLISS hacker from CMU) ------- 30-Jan-89 09:40:12-PST,1417;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from RADC-TOPS20.ARPA by SCORE.STANFORD.EDU with TCP; Mon 30 Jan 89 09:37:41-PST Date: Mon 30 Jan 89 12:36:46-EST From: ADMIN@RADC-TOPS20.ARPA Subject: domains and such To: tops20@SCORE.STANFORD.EDU cc: admin@RADC-TOPS20.ARPA Message-ID: <12466712444.8.ADMIN@RADC-TOPS20.ARPA> We are considering getting rid of RADC-TOPS20.ARPA. The decision may very well depend upon the answers to the following questions 1) Can the Dec20 be used as a domain server and a host (primarily for network mail, FTP and TN)? There would not be much other processing going on. Is the software readily available, what is the cost? 2) In any case, if the DEC20 stays around we need to to use domains instead of a host table. Is there software available? Where? At what cost? For what version of the operating system? 3) If the 20 stays around it would move from the Arpanet to a Milnet port which we have available. The Arpanet port is 1822. The Milnet is X.25. Will this transition require different hardware or software? From what source? At what cost? Thank you for your answers in advance. The person who currently owns the machine wanted to get rid of it yesterday. The division who might want to keep it needs these answers ASAP. And thus I zip a message to you and get wonderful information in no time at all. Thanks, Donna ------- 30-Jan-89 12:22:57-PST,2088;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from MATHOM.CISCO.COM by SCORE.STANFORD.EDU with TCP; Mon 30 Jan 89 12:21:58-PST Date: Mon 30 Jan 89 11:33:18-PST From: William Westfield Subject: Re: domains and such To: ADMIN@RADC-TOPS20.ARPA cc: tops20@SCORE.STANFORD.EDU In-Reply-To: <12466712444.8.ADMIN@RADC-TOPS20.ARPA> Message-ID: <12466733658.34.BILLW@MATHOM.CISCO.COM> 1) Can the Dec20 be used as a domain server and a host (primarily for network mail, FTP and TN)? There would not be much other processing going on. Is the software readily available, what is the cost? 2) In any case, if the DEC20 stays around we need to to use domains instead of a host table. Is there software available? Where? At what cost? For what version of the operating system? There are two domain systems available for the 20. One is called Jeeves, and is available from ISI. The other is called Chives, and is from MIT. Chives is a resolver only, Jeeves includes both a server and a resolver. Most of the popular network utilities have been rewritten to use domains, and most are free (available from Stanford, etc). Both Chives and Jeeves really require monitor modifications (so you have to have sources around someplace), but I have been successful in making Jeeves run in user mode. Chives is supposed to have hooks for this too. 3) If the 20 stays around it would move from the Arpanet to a Milnet port which we have available. The Arpanet port is 1822. The Milnet is X.25. Will this transition require different hardware or software? From what source? At what cost? There are no DDN X.25 interfaces for the dec20 that I know of. Your best bet would be to get an ethernet for the 20, and an ethernet-x.25 router. The total cost would probably be around 20K, but of course other hosts could use the router too. DEC sells ethernet interfaces (NIA-20), several vendors sell the routers (The best one comes from cisco Systems :-) Bill Westield cisco Systems. ------- 30-Jan-89 12:46:44-PST,1454;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from june.cs.washington.edu by SCORE.STANFORD.EDU with TCP; Mon 30 Jan 89 12:46:23-PST Received: from tomobiki-cho.acs.washington.edu by june.cs.washington.edu (5.59/6.13+) id AA11955; Mon, 30 Jan 89 12:46:21 PST Return-Path: Date: Mon, 30 Jan 1989 12:42:34 PST From: Mark Crispin Subject: re: domains and such To: ADMIN@RADC-TOPS20.ARPA Cc: TOPS-20@Score.Stanford.EDU In-Reply-To: <12466712444.8.ADMIN@RADC-TOPS20.ARPA> Message-Id: Donna - There is DEC-20 domain resolver (client) and server software available. It can be run under TOPS-20 versions 5.3, 5.4, 6.1, and 7.0. This software is available from MIT at no cost; contact SRA@XX.LCS.MIT.EDU. I regret to inform you that your only networking options for a DEC-20 are 1822 (via an AN20), Ethernet (via an NIA-20), or serial DECnet (via a DN20). I am not aware of any TCP/IP options using a DN20 and would strongly discourage even thinking about using a DN20. Consequently, if you were to move the machine to Milnet, you would probably need to move the 1822 port from the ARPANET IMP to the Milnet IMP. The DEC-20 domain software is excellent, so you may have an argument to justify keeping the DEC-20 and even putting an 1822 IMPterface on your Milnet IMP. -- Mark -- ------- 30-Jan-89 13:19:52-PST,1303;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from ames.arc.nasa.gov by SCORE.STANFORD.EDU with TCP; Mon 30 Jan 89 13:19:26-PST Received: Mon, 30 Jan 89 12:59:54 PST from uhccux.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu by ames.arc.nasa.gov (5.59/1.2) Received: by uhccux.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (1.2/Ultrix2.2) id AA19622; Mon, 30 Jan 89 11:14:26-1000 Date: Mon, 30 Jan 89 11:14:26-1000 From: Jeff Blomberg To: tops-20@SCORE.STANFORD.EDU Subject: TOPS-20 TCP/IP Subnetting...... Cc: jeff@uhccux.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu Message-Id: Aloha! This question may have been asked before, I don't recall the answer.... For the last few months of the life of our 2065 we are going to have to place it behind a Proteon P4200 gateway. Both 'sides' of the gateway have the same Class B address, but a different subnet allocation. Question: Can TOPS-20 be easily taught to do subnet masking? I recall a rumor that system:internet.address migh actually have a net mask field, but don't have sources to confirm. Our Class B address: 128.171.xx.yy Desired mask: 255.255.255.0 If not possible, we'll simply use a Class C address allocation until the -20 goes away. -Jeff Blomberg U of Hawaii 30-Jan-89 16:01:12-PST,749;000000000000 Mail-From: VAF created at 30-Jan-89 16:00:35 Date: Mon 30 Jan 89 16:00:35-PST From: Vince Fuller Subject: re: domains and such To: ADMIN@RADC-TOPS20.ARPA cc: TOPS-20@Score.Stanford.EDU In-Reply-To: Office: Pine Hall 167 Phone: 415-723-6860 Message-ID: <12466782314.34.VAF@Score.Stanford.EDU> There is an implementation of TOPS-20 TCP/IP via a DN20 that works fairly well (I know, I worked on it). The code, however, has never been tested with 6.1 and probably won't work with it without modification. Also, special software is necesssary for the DN20 to work (and DECNET cannot coexist in the same DN20 with the TCP/IP software). --Vince ------- 31-Jan-89 00:40:59-PST,673;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from AI.AI.MIT.EDU by SCORE.STANFORD.EDU with TCP; Tue 31 Jan 89 00:40:29-PST Date: Tue, 31 Jan 89 03:41:58 EST From: John Wroclawski Subject: Anyone want a 2065? To: tops-20@SCORE.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <528972.890131.JTW@AI.AI.MIT.EDU> 2065 for sale to good home, or maybe we'll give it to you if nothing better comes up... KL10, 2MW MG20 memory, NI10 ethernet, 3 RH20's, TM02/TU45's, DN20, AN20, pretty orange cabinets, an RP06 or two. Currently on service, well maintained, frequent oil changes, no rust or dents. Available April. Contact JTW@LCS.MIT.EDU if interested. -john 31-Jan-89 11:32:29-PST,1378;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from GSB-How.Stanford.EDU by SCORE.STANFORD.EDU with TCP; Tue 31 Jan 89 11:31:28-PST Date: Tue 31 Jan 89 11:33:06-PST From: Eric M. Berg Subject: Meaning of "level 0" and "level 1" messages To: tops-20@Score.Stanford.EDU Message-ID: <12466995765.26.A.ERIC@GSB-How.Stanford.EDU> Some time ago, I was interested in finding out what the "system level zero" and "system level one" messages referred to in the output from the "INFORMATION SYSTEM-STATUS" command were. David Lomartire was kind enough to indulge my curiousity; an (edited) copy of his response follows. /Eric --------------- Date: 26 Jan 1989 0926-EST From: "David Lomartire" Basically, level 0 messages are: o [Caution -- Swapping space low] o [Caution -- SPT space low] o [Caution -- Disk space low on system structure] Level 1 messages (on by default) are: o [System name going down in ....] o [Shutdown canceled] o [Deleted files will be expunged from system structure in 30 seconds] o [System structure expunge completed] David Lomartire LSBU Software Engineering TOPS-20 Group -------- ------- 31-Jan-89 12:21:07-PST,1806;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from XX.LCS.MIT.EDU by SCORE.STANFORD.EDU with TCP; Tue 31 Jan 89 12:20:50-PST Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1989 15:22 EST Message-ID: From: Rob Austein To: tops20@SCORE.STANFORD.EDU Subject: domains and such In-reply-to: Msg of 30 Jan 1989 14:33-EST from William Westfield Date: Monday, 30 January 1989 14:33-EST From: William Westfield ... Both Chives and Jeeves really require monitor modifications (so you have to have sources around someplace), but I have been successful in making Jeeves run in user mode. Chives is supposed to have hooks for this too. At one point last summer I was working with DEC to try to get the monitor hooks for CHIVES's GTDOM module onto a 7.0 autopatch tape; I believe we agreed that we had finished working out what the necessary patches were, but after that I lost track of the project, so I don't know if DEC had the time or staff to actually get it out the door. But anyway, if/when this stuff is available from DEC, it should be possible for a site without a TOPS-20 source license to install CHIVES in a 7.0 monitor. Both the JEEVES and CHIVES versions of GTDOM% can be run in user mode but in both cases it's hard to do quite right. Both packages make use of specialized scheduler test routines to block process execution pending one of several possible wakeup conditions, and in user mode this is hard to emulate, since the raw IP packet interface used by the UDP code doesn't provide any way to set up interrupts, so things get a little weird. But, as Bill says, the basic code will run; both were designed to be debugged in user mode. --Rob 31-Jan-89 23:05:05-PST,836;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from SRI-NIC.ARPA by SCORE.STANFORD.EDU with TCP; Tue 31 Jan 89 23:03:06-PST Date: Tue, 31 Jan 89 23:03:00 PST From: Mark Lottor Subject: FE floppy errors To: tops-20@score.stanford.edu Message-ID: <12467121356.28.MKL@SRI-NIC.ARPA> Whenever I play with front-end floppies, like trying to update stuff or make copies, there seems to always be a few files which when you try to do a directory listing come up with the file name followed by something like "...ILLEGAL ATTRIBUTE...". (I could find the exact error if it helped). Then I find I can't even delete the files. This seems to happen often. Sometimes I'll make a copy of a perfectly good floppy and it'll come out with 2 or 3 files having that error. Can someone explain what's going on? ------- 1-Feb-89 08:55:20-PST,739;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from SRI-NIC.ARPA by SCORE.STANFORD.EDU with TCP; Wed 1 Feb 89 08:53:53-PST Date: Wed, 1 Feb 89 08:53:39 PST From: HOSTMASTER@SRI-NIC.ARPA Subject: INTERNET.GATEWAYS file usage Sender: DEBRA@SRI-NIC.ARPA To: tops20@score.stanford.edu cc: hostmaster@SRI-NIC.ARPA Reply-To: HOSTMASTER@SRI-NIC.ARPA Message-ID: <12467228880.41.DEBRA@SRI-NIC.ARPA> The Network Information Center is considering discontinuing the maintenance of the file INTERNET.GATEWAYS. Before doing so, we would like to know if that file is being utilized. Please let us know if you are currently using this file by sending a message to HOSTMASTER@SRI-NIC.ARPA. -- NIC Hostmaster Staff ------- 1-Feb-89 09:54:05-PST,1121;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from jessica.Stanford.EDU by SCORE.STANFORD.EDU with TCP; Wed 1 Feb 89 09:53:17-PST Received: by jessica.Stanford.EDU; Wed, 1 Feb 89 09:53:11 PST Date: 1 Feb 1989 0953-PST (Wednesday) From: Philip Almquist To: Mark Lottor Cc: tops-20@score.Stanford.EDU Subject: Re: FE floppy errors In-Reply-To: Mark Lottor / Tue, 31 Jan 89 23:03:00 PST. <12467121356.28.MKL@SRI-NIC.ARPA> Mark, I always found that FE floppies were one of the most unreliable parts of a DEC-20... Do you see the problem on the drive that the floppy was written on, or only when you move it to another drive? Can you read a known good floppy in both drives? It sounds like you need to get your friendly DEC repairperson to look at the problem (one of the fortunate things about having an "obsolete" system is that the field engineers who work on such systems seem to be much more knowledgeable than those who work on the more modern, supposedly self-diagnosing systems). Philip 9-Feb-89 13:50:36-PST,2015;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from osu-20.ircc.ohio-state.edu by SCORE.STANFORD.EDU with TCP; Thu 9 Feb 89 13:48:05-PST Date: Thu 9 Feb 89 16:46:50-EST From: Lum Johnson Subject: Is there still a TOPS => UNIX mailing list? To: TOPS-20@osu-20.ircc.ohio-state.edu Message-ID: <12469379407.13.LUM@osu-20.ircc.ohio-state.edu> From the documentation for Columbia University's port of MM for UNIX (TM): > CCMD was announced to the public on some Internet mailing lists as well as > at Usenix... A mailing list to discuss TOPS-20 to UNIX migration issues was > set up (INFO-TOPSUX@CU20B.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU). (Send requests to INFO-TOPSUX- > REQUEST@CU20B.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU.) We began using CCMD internally for various > programs. Our operations interface, group management program etc. were all > written using CCMD as the user interface. Unfortunately, CU20B.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU is no longer with us, but is the mailing list? (There is no listing in the [NIC.DDN.MIL]NETINFO:INTEREST-GROUPS*.TXT.) If not, has anyone kept an archive of the former traffic? (By the way, if anyone else is thinking about going that direction, let me say that CCMD and MM-UX are _good_ stuff. I have only the pickiest complaints to make about them. (E.g., username completion doesn't work with the Sun yellow pages /etc/passwd stuff, at least not in our copy, ... yet. MM-UX even knows three mailbox formats (Unix mbox, TOPS mtxt, ITS babyl) and does conversions.) If anyone is interested, send me a reply, and I'll get and post the directions for picking these up from tut.cis.ohio-state.edu by ftp or osu-cis by uucp. Of course, they're probably also available at Columbia, if that's closer. :-) [UNIX is a trademark of AT&T; TOPS-20 is a trademark of DEC; yada yada ....] -- Lum Johnson lum@cis.ohio-state.edu lum@osu-20.ircc.ohio-state.edu "You got it kid -- the large print giveth and the small print taketh away." ------- 16-Feb-89 15:14:26-PST,1024;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from uunet.UU.NET by SCORE.STANFORD.EDU with TCP; Thu 16 Feb 89 15:11:53-PST Received: from munnari.UUCP by uunet.UU.NET (5.61/1.14) with UUCP id AA04724; Thu, 16 Feb 89 18:11:41 -0500 Message-Id: <8902162311.AA04724@uunet.UU.NET> Received: from charlie.cc.deakin.oz (via murtoa) by munnari.oz with SunIII (5.5) id AA15923; Fri, 17 Feb 89 08:54:58 EST (from ccw@charlie.cc.deakin.oz for uunet!tops20@score.stanford.edu) Received: by charlie.oz (5.52) id AA00519; Fri, 17 Feb 89 08:40:11 EST To: tops20@score.Stanford.edu Subject: System Wide Groups Date: Fri, 17 Feb 89 08:41:32 +1100 From: Craig Warren We are running a Mark Crispin version of Tops20 6.2 (4007)-4 which makes groups system wide rather than on a structure wide basis. Has anyone modified Gidget (or have another tool) to manipulate Groups under such an arrangement? Craig Warren ccw%charlie.oz.au@uunet.uu.net 16-Feb-89 16:41:50-PST,813;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from june.cs.washington.edu by SCORE.STANFORD.EDU with TCP; Thu 16 Feb 89 16:40:48-PST Received: from tomobiki-cho.cac.washington.edu by june.cs.washington.edu (5.59/6.13+) id AA24987; Thu, 16 Feb 89 16:38:48 PST Return-Path: Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1989 16:39:13 PST From: Mark Crispin Subject: re: System Wide Groups To: Craig Warren Cc: tops20@score.Stanford.edu In-Reply-To: <8902162311.AA04724@uunet.UU.NET> Message-Id: What Craig is talking about is the Stanford patch to make all domestic structures have PS: user groups. Does the old Stanford GROUPE program know about this? ------- 18-Feb-89 14:05:15-PST,623;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL by SCORE.STANFORD.EDU with TCP; Sat 18 Feb 89 14:04:23-PST Date: Sat, 18 Feb 89 15:04:38 MST From: Mark Crispin Subject: 1 JAN 89 Software Dispatch fiche To: TOPS-20@SCORE.STANFORD.EDU Address: P.O. Box 2652; Seattle, WA 98111-2652 Message-ID: <12471741943.15.MRC@WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL> Did anyone other than me notice that the so-called 1 JAN 89 DECSYSTEM-20 Software Dispatch fiche is really for the 10? I wonder if the 10 folks got our fiche...anybody in 10 land out there wanna trade? ------- 19-Feb-89 14:33:54-PST,1779;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL by SCORE.STANFORD.EDU with TCP; Sun 19 Feb 89 14:33:00-PST Date: Sun, 19 Feb 89 15:33:15 MST From: Mark Crispin Subject: 25 years of 36-bit computing To: TOPS-20@SCORE.STANFORD.EDU Address: P.O. Box 2652; Seattle, WA 98111-2652 Message-ID: <12472009295.10.MRC@WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL> I had just recently unpacked my 3/4" videotapes of the 36-Bit Trivia Bowl and the 36-Bit Pioneer's Roundtable that were held at Disneyland DECUS in the fall of 1984. After playing these tapes and going through some nostalgia, I was reminded that this year is the 25th year of 36-bit computing. Amazingly, some of us are still around. There is reason to hope that PANDA will arise from the dead sometime this spring. By that time it will have been a year since LCG was declared dead & buried. Although KL systems are dropping off like flies, some KL's are still going strong and hacker- owned KS systems like PANDA are springing up like mushrooms. There's even talk of building an SCSI controller for the 2020 so we can use modern peripherals... I would therefore like to call for a Penultimate, 25th Anniversary of 36-Bit Computing celebration, to be held at Disneyland DECUS this fall. This will probably be the last such get-together ever; who knows if any of us will be around for the 50th? What do you think? -- Mark -- PS: As for memorabilia, I have a bag full of KA-10 adder boards (a truly amazing circuit, as memorable as the 6502 on the PDP-6) to trade, and I would *kill* for a KI-10 front panel. It'd also be great if someone could find a machine-readable copy of the first PDP-6 system sources!! ------- 20-Feb-89 12:42:01-PST,2705;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from EAGLE.WESLEYAN.EDU by SCORE.STANFORD.EDU with TCP; Mon 20 Feb 89 12:35:55-PST Date: 20-FEB-1989 14:51:31.97 From: Douglas Bigelow Subject: Tops20 Version 7.0 To: TOPS20@Score.Stanford.EDU Well, four years after I froze the software on our DEC-2060s, I'm considering a hardware and software upgrade... I never thought I'd see the day. Our remaining 20 is running a 5.4 monitor and is running TCP/IP via an NI. It's an administrative machine and has probably five years of life ahead as large data processing applications (mostly 1022) are converted one by one to VAX/VMS architecture and System 1032. In order to improve the networking environment necessary to transport ever- larger applications from this system to a VAXcluster, I'm considering upgrading 5.4 to 7.0, adding DECnet, converting serial port connections to LAT connections, and generally improving the TCP/IP environment. (Our current TCP/IP software seems to have trouble dealing with some of the broadcast packet types on our Ethernet, mainly those types which didn't exist several years back.) In order to support the monitor change, I'd also purchase a cache upgrade. What I need from this group is some information. I'm long out of date in software and need to know what tapes and floppies I'd need to have to pull this off. The ones I've figured out are: BB-H137F-BM Installation (16MT9) BB-H138F-BM Distribution 1/2 BB-LW55A-BM " 2/2 BB-M836D-BM Tools BB-KL11F-BM Autopatch 1-19 BB-L014T-BM " 20 However, as a source site (with unfortunately *many* monitor and exec patches) I'd also need the monitor and exec and tcp/ip source tapes, and the TCP/IP binary tape. Also front end floppies, microcode, etc... We've got an NI-20, no AN-20, no CI-20, no RP20... Can someone fill me in about what I would need, preferably with the tape numbers? No guarantees that I'll do it, because it may turn out to be too much work. My days as a systems programmer are long behind me, but I'd have no choice but to do most of the work myself. The systems team here is almost all VAX oriented. Any comments on the difficulties in moving from 5.4 to 7.0 would be appreciated! Doug Bigelow Director of Academic Computing @ Wesleyan PS -- Are there others out there who expect to keep 20s around for five years or more? I'm talking about a heavy production environment, not just casual use. If so, what are your field service plans? Our field service people have been telling us (unofficially) not to expect DEC service to be available after 1992. 21-Feb-89 07:36:03-PST,759;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL by SCORE.STANFORD.EDU with TCP; Tue 21 Feb 89 07:33:01-PST Date: Mon, 20 Feb 89 19:16:00 MST From: Mark Crispin Subject: setting MAXTCB higher than 50 To: TOPS-20@SCORE.STANFORD.EDU Address: P.O. Box 2652; Seattle, WA 98111-2652 Message-ID: <12472311990.8.MRC@WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL> If you set MAXTCB higher than 50 (not unreasonable in this day and age) then the calculation of NTWBTS generates a warning. Apparently each TCB can grab 10 wait bits, but the total number must fit in a 9 bit field. Is this an excessively conservative calculation? Has anyone expanded the fields in question so there can be more wait bits? ------- 21-Feb-89 10:24:47-PST,981;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from VX1.GBA.NYU.EDU ([128.122.130.83].#Internet) by SCORE.STANFORD.EDU with TCP; Tue 21 Feb 89 10:23:06-PST Date: Tue 21 Feb 89 13:21:42-EST From: Howie Friedman Subject: TOPS-20 Core Dump mode To: tops-20@score.stanford.edu Message-ID: <604088502.0.HFRIEDMAN@VX1.GBA.NYU.EDU> Mail-System-Version: I have a tape utility that I have written for the Vax environment and am trying to add support for tapes writtten using the DEC20 Core Dump tape mode. I have followed the record layout described in the TOPS-20 Tape Processing Manual but have need been successful. If you could provide me with a description of how to map each set of 5 bytes (8 bit) that represent 5 (7 bit) bytes into ascii, I would be most greatful. Thank you, in advance, for your time. Have a pleasant day. ===> Howard <=== ------- 21-Feb-89 12:29:49-PST,1343;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from MATHOM.CISCO.COM by SCORE.STANFORD.EDU with TCP; Tue 21 Feb 89 12:28:35-PST Date: Tue 21 Feb 89 12:28:57-PST From: William Westfield Subject: Re: setting MAXTCB higher than 50 To: MRC@SIMTEL20.ARPA cc: TOPS-20@SCORE.STANFORD.EDU In-Reply-To: <12472311990.8.MRC@WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL> Message-ID: <12472510956.37.BILLW@MATHOM.CISCO.COM> If you set MAXTCB higher than 50 (not unreasonable in this day and age) then the calculation of NTWBTS generates a warning. Apparently each TCB can grab 10 wait bits, but the total number must fit in a 9 bit field. Is this an excessively conservative calculation? Has anyone expanded the fields in question so there can be more wait bits? The calculation is excessively conservative. TVTs, for example, use far fewer wait bits (3, I think). In a large system, you can expect a lot of your connections to be TVTs. Both cisco and Stanford have monitors with MAXTCB > 50. The code seems to do the right thing if there are no wait bits available (ie, you wait for wait bits...), though I have never seen this happen. Expanding the fields in question would be a bitch - they are used as arguments to scheduler tests, and they want to get two in 18 bits. Bill Westfield ------- 22-Feb-89 19:55:01-PST,1330;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL by SCORE.STANFORD.EDU with TCP; Wed 22 Feb 89 19:54:12-PST Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1989 20:51 MST Message-ID: From: "Frank J. Wancho" To: TOPS20@SCORE.STANFORD.EDU cc: WANCHO@WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL Subject: Bug fix for FTPSRT Problem: Wrong error message displayed for File not found case. Diagnosis: In Edit 42, RETX1/RETX5 was modified to display the filename in the error message using JFNS%. However, on a GTJFN% error, there is no valid JFN for JFNS% to use and the JFNS% itself will fail. The JFNS% error message (DESX4) is then displayed instead of the original GTJFN%, normally GJFX4. Cure: 1. At RET02B+13d, i.e., just below the GTFDB%, replace the ERJMP RETX1 with ERJMP RETX5. 2. At RETX1:, insert: JSP X,ERRMSG ; GTJFN failed ASCIZS (450,550,< File not accessable. >) Comment: This problem was not previously detected because testing a GET of a non-existent file from another TOPS20 system causes a STAT filename to be sent first. STAT will properly return "? Not found." However, other user ftp programs, such as found on Unix systems, will directly issue the RETR filename without a prior STAT. --Frank 23-Feb-89 13:33:51-PST,516;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from SRI-NIC.ARPA by SCORE.STANFORD.EDU with TCP; Thu 23 Feb 89 13:31:50-PST Date: Thu, 23 Feb 89 13:19:54 PST From: Mark Lottor Subject: multiple internet address on same interface To: tops-20@score.stanford.edu Message-ID: <12473044520.32.MKL@SRI-NIC.ARPA> Has anyone tried running and ethernet interface with more than one internet address assigned to it? Is this possible or are mods needed? Any idea how difficult it would be? ------- 27-Feb-89 12:49:43-PST,1206;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from MACBETH.STANFORD.EDU by SCORE.STANFORD.EDU with TCP; Mon 27 Feb 89 12:45:16-PST Date: Mon 27 Feb 89 12:42:28-PST From: Rich Alderson Subject: Spring DECUS and 36-bit systems To: tops-20@SCORE.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <12474086281.22.A.ALDERSON@MACBETH.STANFORD.EDU> Those who are looking for the Tops-10/Tops-20 Update session in Atlanta should note that it is being sponsored by the Site Management and Training SIG. It is scheduled to take place Monday evening from 5:00 till 6:30. Dave Braithwaite asked for a single 90-minute session to cover both product lines since most people who still have 36-bit systems won't mind a little cross-over. With the demise of the Large Systems SIG (which became a SIC last spring in Cleveland and disbanded in December), it was thought that Site Management & Training was the appropriate place for a 36-bit Working Group. The folks there agreed to take us on. Furthers details will be published here as they become available. I hope to see all of you in Atlanta. Rich Alderson Academic Information Resources Stanford University ------- 2-Mar-89 09:12:56-PST,1711;000000000000 Return-Path: <076RONAN%VAX.LIVPOL.AC.UK@Forsythe.Stanford.EDU> Received: from Forsythe.Stanford.EDU by SCORE.STANFORD.EDU with TCP; Thu 2 Mar 89 09:11:32-PST Received: by Forsythe.Stanford.EDU; Thu, 2 Mar 89 09:10:30 PST Received: from RL.IB by UKACRL.BITNET (Mailer X1.25) with BSMTP id 6532; Thu, 02 Mar 89 16:59:51 GMT Received: Via: UK.AC.LIVPOL.VAX; 2 MAR 89 16:59:47 GMT Date: 2-MAR-1989 17:01:13 From: 076RONAN%VAX.LIVERPOOL-POLY.AC.UK@Forsythe.Stanford.EDU To: TOPS-20@SCORE.STANFORD.EDU Subject: Can TCP/IP-20 run together with LAT/DECnet over the NIA20? Sender: JANET "076RONAN@UK.AC.LIVPOL.VAX" <076RONAN%VAX.LIVPOL.AC.UK@Forsythe.Stanford.EDU> Originally-to: EARN%"tops-20@edu.stanford.score",076RONAN Mailer: Janet_Mailshr V3.1 (19-Aug-1988) Name: Ronan P. Flood, Senior Computing Officer (systems) Address: Liverpool Polytechnic, Computer Services Department, Byrom Street, Liverpool, L3 3AF, U.K Telephone: (051) 207-3581 extension 2101 We are considering running DEC's TCP/IP-20 4.0 on an NIA20 for incoming TELNET terminal connection. The incoming TELNET connections would come from a terminal server, but we may later have a requirement for both-way TELNET/FTP/etc. to Unix machines. However, we must also be able to support DECnet and LAT, (DECSERVER-100/200s), on the NI. We want to know if anyone out there has tried simultaneous TELNET/DECnet/LAT on an NI, and if it works, or has been proven not to work. Thanks, Ronan Flood. Internet: 076RONAN@VAX.LIVPOL.AC.UK or 076RONAN%VAX.LIVPOL.AC.UK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU 2-Mar-89 10:23:44-PST,889;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from TOPS20.DEC.COM by SCORE.STANFORD.EDU with TCP; Thu 2 Mar 89 10:22:21-PST Date: 2 Mar 1989 1320-EST From: "Michael Raspuzzi" To: 076RONAN%VAX.LIVERPOOL-POLY.AC.UK@Forsythe.Stanford.EDU cc: TOPS-20@SCORE.STANFORD.EDU Loc/MS: "MRO1-2/L14 (Pole KL21)" Phone: "DTN 297-2346 (508-467-2346)" Subject: Re: Can TCP/IP-20 run together with LAT/DECnet over the NIA20? Message-ID: <"MS11(6044)+GLXLIB6(0)" 12474846888.210.61.187806 at THEP.MRNET> References: Message from 076RONAN%VAX.LIVERPOOL-POLY.AC.UK@Forsythe.Stanford.EDU of 2-Mar-89 1234-EST Ronan, You can run DECnet/LAT/TCP all through the NIA20 at the same time and it is supported. We run machines in house that have all 3 going at the same time. Mike Raspuzzi TOPS-20 Monitor Group Marlboro, MA -------- 2-Mar-89 11:36:43-PST,569;000000000000 Mail-From: GROSSMAN created at 2-Mar-89 11:34:41 Date: Thu 2 Mar 89 11:34:41-PST From: Stu Grossman Subject: Re: Can TCP/IP-20 run together with LAT/DECnet over the NIA20? To: 076RONAN%VAX.LIVERPOOL-POLY.AC.UK@forsythe.Stanford.EDU cc: TOPS-20@Score.Stanford.EDU In-Reply-To: Message from "076RONAN%VAX.LIVERPOOL-POLY.AC.UK@Forsythe.Stanford.EDU" of Thu 2 Mar 89 17:01:13-PST Message-ID: <12474860374.14.GROSSMAN@Score.Stanford.EDU> We ran just such a configuration at DEC, and it worked quite well. Stu Grossman ------- 3-Mar-89 08:27:21-PST,487;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from VAX01.AMS.COM by SCORE.STANFORD.EDU with TCP; Fri 3 Mar 89 08:26:34-PST Date: Fri 3 Mar 89 11:03:55-EST From: "Rich DeJordy, x295" Subject: RE: Can TOPS/IP-20 run together with LAT/DECnet over the NIA20? To: tops-20@SCORE.STANFORD.EDU Yes, we too are running all these protocols over our NIs on the two 20s that we have here. It works quite well. Rich DeJordy American Mathematical Society ------- 3-Mar-89 16:27:29-PST,1303;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from XX.LCS.MIT.EDU by SCORE.STANFORD.EDU with TCP; Fri 3 Mar 89 16:25:14-PST Date: Fri, 3 Mar 1989 19:22 EST Message-ID: From: Rob Austein To: Bug-CHIVES@XX.LCS.MIT.EDU, TOPS-20@SCORE.STANFORD.EDU Subject: Updates to CHIVES (domain resolver) software Reply-To: Bug-CHIVES@LCS.MIT.EDU Some recent work turned up several memory leaks, which have been plugged. There are a few new source modules in XX:. Sites running CHIVES should update their sources and recompile. No monitor changes are necessary, these are just fixes to the user context resolver daemon. If you have trouble FTPing to XX, make sure you're not trying to use XX's ARPANET address (the AN20 is dead), instead use [18.26.0.36]. For those who are interested, XX has been running without any IP host tables for a week or so now, without any known problems. We removed the boot-time HSTINI call and made the GTHST% JSYS into an alias for GTDOM%. A few programs (notably SYSDPY) needed a little work to cope with the change, but all in all it went quite smoothly, even programs like TECO/EMACS/BABYL are happy. Comments, bug reports, etc to BUG-CHIVES@LCS.MIT.EDU, as usual. --Rob 17-Mar-89 05:46:53-PST,2120;000000000000 Return-Path: <@po3.andrew.cmu.edu:cy13+@andrew.cmu.edu> Received: from po3.andrew.cmu.edu by SCORE.STANFORD.EDU with TCP; Fri 17 Mar 89 05:44:48-PST Received: by po3.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id for tops-20@score.stanford.edu; Fri, 17 Mar 89 08:44:39 EST Received: via switchmail; Fri, 17 Mar 89 08:44:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from unix9.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail ID ; Fri, 17 Mar 89 08:42:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from unix9.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail ID ; Fri, 17 Mar 89 08:42:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from VUI.Andrew.3.20.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.unix9.andrew.cmu.edu.vax.22 via MS.5.6.unix9.andrew.cmu.edu.vax_22; Fri, 17 Mar 89 08:42:46 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 17 Mar 89 08:42:46 -0500 (EST) From: "Curtis P. Yeske" To: tops-20@score.stanford.edu Subject: T20 Cycles Cc: Farhat Lakhavani , GSIA-BBs The Graduate School of Industrial Administration here at Carnegie Mellon needs some Tops-20 cycles to run a fortran program. This program contains the Management Game for the school. We need one account and 60 userid's. This program would start in the fall of 89 semester and probably would not continue. The preferred (but not critical) method of communication would be telnet for up to 10 users at a time. If you know of any good commercial places to go for these cycles, please let me know. If you know of any nonprofit organizations who would be interested in hard currency, also let me know. As I no longer get this list, please reply directly to me. Thank you for your time and consideration, Curt Yeske Hardware Software Coordinator GSIA Computing Carnegie Mellon cy13@andrew.cmu.edu (412) 268-3091 P.S. Sorry about the line wrap but Andrew is really brain damaged. (Not the opinion of any other than myself [ha!]) 17-Mar-89 11:45:26-PST,830;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from tut.cis.ohio-state.edu by SCORE.STANFORD.EDU with TCP; Fri 17 Mar 89 11:43:59-PST Received: from osu-20.ircc.ohio-state.edu by tut.cis.ohio-state.edu (5.61/3.890314) id AA23347; Fri, 17 Mar 89 14:43:53 -0500 Message-Id: <8903171943.AA23347@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu> Date: Fri 17 Mar 89 14:42:29-EST From: Sandra Wambold Subject: LaTeX -> PostScript To: tops-20@OSU-20.IRCC.OHIO-STATE.EDU Does anyone have a program to convert LaTeX DVI files to PostScript format? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Sandra Wambold, Student Operator P.O. BOX 3056, Columbus, OH 43210 WAMBOLD@OSU-20.IRCC.OHIO-STATE.EDU The Ohio State University's DEC-SYSTEM 2060 ------- 22-Mar-89 16:42:24-PST,1668;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from EAGLE.WESLEYAN.EDU by SCORE.STANFORD.EDU with TCP; Wed 22 Mar 89 16:40:25-PST Date: 22-MAR-1989 19:39:34.07 From: Douglas Bigelow Subject: Help! To: Tops20@Score.Stanford.EDU Due to an unfortunate combination of accident and carelessness, we've managed to damage the floppies containing both our working and original copies of RSX20F version 15-15. Since we're running a 5.4 monitor with an old front end and microcode, two sites I asked directly have long since upgraded and trashed their old front end floppies. Hence, a widespread appeal: Does anyone have the following floppies that they would be willing to copy for me? AS-M329D-BM TOPS-20 RSX20F V15-15 FLP A AS-M330D-BM TOPS-20 RSX20F V15-15 FLP B Our "A" floppy is the damaged one, specifically. We're also running microcode version 357, which if I recall correctly was the default version supplied with that release. If any good samaritan would be willing to dig up and copy those floppies for me, I will be happy to mail you blank floppies and a stamped, self-addressed mailer. Or I can just provide the account number for a "collect" Federal Express mailing. I also promise eternal gratitude. I will much appreciate help -- not only do I not have the floppies, but I don't have a spare RP06 with a front-end file system installed. If we have any sort of disk disaster, I dread to think of how long we'll be down before sorting out the problems. Thanks! Doug Bigelow Director of Academic Computing @ Wesleyan, and former systems programmer in the good ol' days. 24-Mar-89 12:15:29-PST,690;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from EAGLE.WESLEYAN.EDU by SCORE.STANFORD.EDU with TCP; Fri 24 Mar 89 12:13:07-PST Date: 24-MAR-1989 15:12:18.52 From: Douglas Bigelow Subject: Help received To: tops20@score.stanford.EDU All, I got an immediate response from several people offering to send me the RSX 15-15 floppies, two of them coming in in ten minutes (in the evening yet.) I took up the first offerer, Joe Dempster, and the floppies are now sitting on my desk in front of me. Now I can sleep again at night. The flood of responses was much appreciated! I guess the TOPS20 spirit still lives on strong... Doug 28-Mar-89 09:20:06-PST,1839;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from MCC.COM by SCORE.STANFORD.EDU with TCP; Tue 28 Mar 89 09:17:20-PST Date: Tue 28 Mar 89 11:11:12-CST From: Clive Dawson Subject: Network Questions To: tops20@score.stanford.edu Message-ID: <12481649995.26.AI.CLIVE@MCC.COM> MCC.COM is in the middle of switching from the ARPANET to NSFNET, and I have several questions about things which might be done to smooth this transition. I've requested that our 10.3.0.62 address be removed from the root domain servers, the NIC host tables, etc. (The address has been listed second after our 128.62.11.10 address for several months now, but this doesn't mean much.) My plan is to keep the PSN connection up for at least several more days to give this change a chance to propagate as much as possible. What I would like to have happen is for the 20 never to send anything out on the PSN interface, but be able to receive stuff from it. Outgoing packets for such connections would go out via our ethernet interface and NSFNET. Questions: 1. Even though our 128.62.11.10 address is DEFAULT,PREFERED in the INTERNET.ADDRESS file, and even though I've modified INTERNET.GATEWAYS to force most everything out through our NSFNET gateway, I believe it is the case that outgoing packets with a destination on net 10 will still go out via the PSN. If I remove the AN20 line completely from the INTERNET.ADDRESS file, will this have the effect I want, i.e. making the AN20 an input-only interface? Or would this disable it completely? 2. Can anybody suggest a reasonable method for tracing the incoming stuff on the AN20 interface so that I can get an idea of the hosts that still don't know about the change? Thanks, Clive ------- 28-Mar-89 09:56:01-PST,642;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL by SCORE.STANFORD.EDU with TCP; Tue 28 Mar 89 09:54:29-PST Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1989 10:53 MST Message-ID: From: "Frank J. Wancho" To: TOPS20@SCORE.STANFORD.EDU cc: WANCHO@WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL Subject: Functional Descriptions wanted If you have a copy of the functional/technical descriptions for an NIA20-AA/FP and/or an RP07-C, please contact me. Both the local DEC office and Digital's Electronic Store don't seem to have them any more. Thanks, Frank 30-Mar-89 10:03:11-PST,735;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from MACBETH.STANFORD.EDU by SCORE.STANFORD.EDU with TCP; Thu 30 Mar 89 10:00:29-PST Date: Thu 30 Mar 89 09:59:51-PST From: Rich Alderson Subject: Public-domain TCP/IP code To: tops-20@SCORE.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <12482183141.144.A.ALDERSON@MACBETH.STANFORD.EDU> An acquaintance has asked me about Tops-20 TCP/IP implementations in the public domain. The reason for the question is that she has heard (as have I) that the DEC-supported code has problems with Class-B networks. Can anyone refute this? Or provide a pointer to code that doesn't have the problem? Or both? Rich Alderson Alderson@Score.Stanford.EDU ------- 30-Mar-89 10:15:30-PST,746;000000000000 Mail-From: VAF created at 30-Mar-89 10:15:16 Date: Thu 30 Mar 89 10:15:16-PST From: Vince Fuller Subject: Re: Public-domain TCP/IP code To: A.ALDERSON@Macbeth.Stanford.EDU cc: tops-20@Score.Stanford.EDU In-Reply-To: <12482183141.144.A.ALDERSON@MACBETH.STANFORD.EDU> Office: Pine Hall 167 Phone: 415-723-6860 Message-ID: <12482185946.34.VAF@Score.Stanford.EDU> That's a little surprising to me. We ran a TOPS-20 at CMU on a class-B network for quite a while without any sort of "Class-B problems". We ran the DEC TCP release for a while (about a year) and then switched to the BBN TOPS-20 TCP (which I would recommend using, if you can get it and can afford the time to install it). --Vince ------- 31-Mar-89 06:26:45-PST,628;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from MATH.AMS.COM by SCORE.STANFORD.EDU with TCP; Fri 31 Mar 89 06:25:50-PST Date: Fri 31 Mar 89 09:23:44-EST From: "Rich DeJordy, x295" Subject: TOPS-20 and Class B addresses. To: tops-20@SCORE.STANFORD.EDU We are running the DEC TCP/IP Monitor our both of our 20 with a Class B address. The 20s are able to communicate over TCP/IP with no problems, though we don't do much in the way of subnetting. (I do remember some question with the @0s being able to handle subnetting, though.) Rich DeJordy American Math Society RAD@MATH.AMS.COM ------- 4-Apr-89 20:09:52-PDT,1827;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from SRI-NIC.ARPA by SCORE.STANFORD.EDU with TCP; Tue 4 Apr 89 20:07:53-PDT Date: Tue, 4 Apr 89 20:07:47 PDT From: Mark Lottor Subject: more ipfree space problems To: tops-20@score.stanford.edu Message-ID: <12483593609.21.MKL@SRI-NIC.ARPA> A while back I posted a bugchk fix that tested to see if a full-size packet being returned to RETPKT in IPIPIP was the length a full-size packet was supposed to be. It tested the length against the word MAXWPM. That fix got rid of almost all our IPFREE space bugs, up until a few weeks ago when they started appearing again. I noticed buffers being trashed by packets that were just a bit too long. I then noticed my bugchk fix wasn't quite checking the right value. Its should be testing against INTXPW instead of MAXWPM. MAXWPM is slightly lower than INTXPW and a few bogus buffers were slipping thru. After fixing it I found the source of the bogus buffers. In the Stanford IPFREE space module, routine GETNIB gets a buffer of size MAXWPM instead of INTXPW. Fixing that seems to have gotten rid of that source of bogons. (I think there is still one problem left somewhere, in the ICMP routines, but it's very infrequent and the BUGCHK catches them). This bug wouldn't have normally appeared unless full-size Ethernet packets were being used. Most systems don't use the whole packet. Until SunOS 4.0 arrived. NFS was changed to use all 1500 bytes instead of just 1024 as in SunOS 3.x. While going thru a crash dump I found an NFS 'write to file' packet, from a Sun workstation to its file server. Why was it on the 20??? I have no idea. I doubt it was a broadcast. My only guess is that the NI gets confused sometimes and read packets that aren't addressed to it. ------- 6-Apr-89 14:13:46-PDT,1145;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from MULTICS.RADC.AF.MIL by SCORE.STANFORD.EDU with TCP; Thu 6 Apr 89 14:10:47-PDT Date: Thu, 6 Apr 89 17:00 EDT From: DLynch@MULTICS.RADC.AF.MIL Subject: domain server To: tops20@SCORE.STANFORD.EDU cc: DLynch@MULTICS.RADC.AF.MIL, admin@TOPS20.RADC.AF.MIL Message-ID: <890406210053.789755@MULTICS.RADC.AF.MIL> As you might know we are running a domain server RADC.AF.MIL under 5.4. The server seems to be answering requests, except it wont talk to our secondary server to let them do a dump. Seems the secondary servers try to talk on port 53. They get a 'connection refused' error. We apparently are not listening on that port at all. Can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong? Unless DSVCTL is listening, I am not doing anything in sysjob or to netsrv or anything. Please help. --Donna P.S. Please respond to both admin -at tops20.radc.af.mil and to DLynch -at multics.radc.af.mil I could not reach score.stanford.edu from the DEC20, so I am sending this from multics. The DEC20 will be down from 1700-2000 EST besides. 6-Apr-89 14:46:31-PDT,856;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from XX.LCS.MIT.EDU by SCORE.STANFORD.EDU with TCP; Thu 6 Apr 89 14:46:07-PDT Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1989 17:46 EDT Message-ID: From: Rob Austein To: admin@TOPS20.RADC.AF.MIL, DLynch@MULTICS.RADC.AF.MIL Cc: tops20@SCORE.STANFORD.EDU Subject: domain server In-reply-to: Msg of 6 Apr 1989 17:00-EDT from DLynch@MULTICS.RADC.AF.MIL The JEEVES name server doens't support TCP, only UDP. Nothing you can do about it unless you want to write the code. Everybody who's using this code uses FTP to ship the files between the servers. This is usually more reliable anyway, since it insures a disk copy of the master files at each server, so that the secondary servers can boot when the primary is down, which is sort of the point. --Rob 20-Apr-89 06:30:07-PDT,1655;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from TOPS20.RADC.AF.MIL by SCORE.STANFORD.EDU with TCP; Thu 20 Apr 89 06:25:50-PDT Date: Thu 20 Apr 89 09:26:20-EST From: Donna Lynch Subject: PS: question, bad .ENC files To: tops20@SCORE.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <12487649296.12.ADMIN@TOPS20.RADC.AF.MIL> The TCP source files (*.ENC) that came with version 7 autopatch 20 and 21 are garbage. DEC encrypted the files so well they cant be decrypted. They are sending me new tapes. I dont know when they will be sending out replacement tapes. You might want to request it if you will be needing them soon. A question. I have a PS: structure from version 5.4. I now want to go to version 7 which requires me to build a new pack (PUBLIC:), since the front end files are different. I dont want to destroy PS: in case we have to go back to 5.4. I dont want to copy all the files to PUBLIC: for the same reason. Files would be lost. I want to boot from PUBLIC: but have the users use PS:. The questions: - Is it possible to boot from PUBLIC with PS: online? - Or can I change the name of PS: (to PS1:) without destroying the pack? - Or can I mount PS: with an alias of PS1: just like any other disk pack when the system is coming up? - Is there a reason why I wouldnt want to do this? I was able to boot V7 on PUBLIC: with PS offline. Then mounted PS: afterwards. But what happens if the system crashes? I am kind of leery of trying things, I never know when TOPS20 will want to write to PS:. I dont want to destroy PS: while I am 'playing' around. --Donna ------- 20-Apr-89 10:07:28-PDT,2091;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from KICKI.STACKEN.KTH.SE by SCORE.STANFORD.EDU with TCP; Thu 20 Apr 89 10:05:52-PDT Return-Path: Received: from ELINOR.LYSATOR.LIU.SE by KICKI.STACKEN.KTH.SE; Thu, 20 Apr 89 19:05:15 +0200 Date: Thu, 20 Apr 89 19:03:40 O From: Paul Svensson To: KS-owner@kicki.stacken.kth.se, Tops20@score.stanford.edu cc: sysop@ELINOR.LYSATOR.LIU.SE Subject: BUGHLT KPALVH when doing ^ESEND * Message-ID: <12487710705.12.PAUL@ELINOR> Help! We're running the PANDA 4.2 monitor with decnet phase IV on a DUP11, and we're dying with BUGHLT KPALVH at address 4232 almost every time we try to broadcast a message with ^Esend *. The broadcast gets delivered alright, but after that we're zapped. It's a mess to boot, too, we get the same BUGHLT when doing a manual boot, sometimes just before asking for date and time, sometimes just after. It then continues with autoboot, saying ?FIL NOT FND directly after USR MOD. As I read the docs, this should mean that boot cannot find monitr.exe, but I must be mistaken, the machine boots just fine after that. (Well, after we removed the [System in operation] broadcast...) Although we can keep the machine up, and it seems to bee running fine, it's a bit painful; we cannot even shutdown nicely if we need to, since we get hanged broadcasting the [System going down ...] message. It also seems as we're sometimes dropping messages sent to explicit ttys (only decnet ttys ??). There might be some connection there, we have no problem running 4.1, without decnet. Any help, suggestions or pointers to what may be the problem or how to fix it (without the source, which we have not) are welcome. Please don't hesitate to tell me I'm beeing silly and there is no problem, or to point me at a rediculously simple solution. None of us around here are very familiar with Tops20/KS10, we haven't been running it for more than three weeks, so we might just be overlooking something. /Paul ------- 20-Apr-89 14:26:57-PDT,860;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from decwrl.dec.com by SCORE.STANFORD.EDU with TCP; Thu 20 Apr 89 14:26:28-PDT Received: by decwrl.dec.com (5.54.5/4.7.34) id AA15848; Thu, 20 Apr 89 14:27:56 PDT Date: Thu, 20 Apr 89 14:27:56 PDT Message-Id: <8904202127.AA15848@decwrl.dec.com> Received: by decwrl.dec.com (5.54.5/4.7.34) for tops20@score.stanford.edu; id AA15848; Thu, 20 Apr 89 14:27:56 PDT From: praetorius%warlok.DEC@decwrl.dec.com To: tops20@score.stanford.edu Subject: Hope ======== Date: 20 Apr 1989 1523-MDT From: PRAETORIUS@WARLOK To: "tops20@SCORE.STANFORD.EDU"@DECWRL Subject: Hope Message-ID: <"MS11(6046)+GLXLIB6(0)" 12487725255.83.204.5826 at WARLOK> Does anybody out there still have a copy of Edinburgh U.'s Hope interpreter for the PDP-10? RP -------- 24-Apr-89 18:31:26-PDT,1075;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from TOPS20.RADC.AF.MIL by SCORE.STANFORD.EDU with TCP; Mon 24 Apr 89 18:29:45-PDT Date: Mon 24 Apr 89 21:30:27-EST From: Donna Lynch Subject: Version 7 and FTP To: tops20@SCORE.STANFORD.EDU cc: admin@TOPS20.RADC.AF.MIL Message-ID: <12488829693.10.ADMIN@TOPS20.RADC.AF.MIL> I finally have version 7 running with no monitor changes. However, I cant FTP to the DEC20. I get the following error: < Fatal system error at at 5350 Invalid structure name. % Garbage at end of TELNET connection ?Connection closed by remote host If I DDT and look at location 5350 it shows: 5350/ ther h.eol#+107/ machine This is a currently useful only for Pup ... This is the same FTP.EXE.299, the same I ran under version 5.4, FTP Version 3(302). And another question, how can you load new hosts tables with the system up. I tried using IPHOST, but it tells me the table is full, which I know isnt true, I dont get an error when I boot. Thanks for your help, Donna ------- 25-Apr-89 07:09:12-PDT,667;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from TOPS20.RADC.AF.MIL by SCORE.STANFORD.EDU with TCP; Tue 25 Apr 89 07:07:28-PDT Date: Tue 25 Apr 89 10:08:02-EST From: Donna Lynch Subject: FTP is okay To: tops20@SCORE.STANFORD.EDU cc: admin@TOPS20.RADC.AF.MIL Message-ID: <12488967606.9.ADMIN@TOPS20.RADC.AF.MIL> I dont know what it was but FTP is fine now. I know when I was restructuring everything I forgot to put FTPSER where it was supposed to be. But after I realized it I restarted NETSRV, which didnt help. I even rebooted. But this morning everything is fine. Sorry to have bothered you. Donna ------- 25-Apr-89 10:10:52-PDT,652;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from Hamlet.Stanford.EDU by SCORE.STANFORD.EDU with TCP; Tue 25 Apr 89 10:10:07-PDT Date: Tue 25 Apr 89 10:07:44-PDT From: Rich Alderson Subject: Re: Version 7 and FTP To: ADMIN@TOPS20.RADC.AF.MIL cc: tops20@SCORE.STANFORD.EDU In-Reply-To: <12488829693.10.ADMIN@TOPS20.RADC.AF.MIL> Message-ID: <12488989397.13.A.ALDERSON@Hamlet.Stanford.EDU> Instead of IPHOST, use the EXEC commands ^Eset internet host ^Eset internet gateway to load a new host table and insure that everything is set up right. Rich Alderson Stanford University ------- 27-Apr-89 11:20:48-PDT,576;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from Hamlet.Stanford.EDU by SCORE.STANFORD.EDU with TCP; Thu 27 Apr 89 11:17:48-PDT Date: Thu 27 Apr 89 11:15:24-PDT From: Rich Alderson Subject: Re: Version 7 and FTP To: ADMIN@TOPS20.RADC.AF.MIL cc: tops20@SCORE.STANFORD.EDU In-Reply-To: <12488829693.10.ADMIN@TOPS20.RADC.AF.MIL> Message-ID: <12489526003.19.A.ALDERSON@Hamlet.Stanford.EDU> Apologies to all. I spaced on the fact that the "^Eset internet" command group is a Stanford-local hack. Rich Alderson ------- 28-Apr-89 09:12:47-PDT,2739;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from ifi.uio.no by SCORE.STANFORD.EDU with TCP; Fri 28 Apr 89 09:11:11-PDT Received: from svarte.uio.no by ifi.uio.no (5.59++/1.15) with SMTP id AA06429; Fri, 28 Apr 89 18:11:14 +0200 Date: Fri, 28 Apr 89 18:11:14 +0200 From: geirp@ifi.uio.no Message-Id: <8904281611.AA01985@svarte.uio.no> To: TOPS-20@Score.Stanford.Edu Subject: TOPS20AN source license Cc: presteskapet%tone@ifi.uio.no Hi, Does any of you know how to get permission from DEC to use TOPS20 software (binary and source) without paying for it? Why would we like to know that? Well, in December last year OD (Oslostudentenes Dataforening), a student computer society took over two DEC2065 machines from the Computer Science department here at the University of Oslo. Right now we are running TOPS20 v6.1. with DECnet, but without monitor source code or tcp/ip support. This is the same configuration the Computer Science department used. While this is pretty neat for a student computer society, what we would really like to do is to run tops20 v6.1 or v7?? with tcp/ip support and have source code for the monitor. This would ordinarily be simple - right? Just pick up the phone and call the DEC salesperson and order the stuff? Unfortunately we can't do that. We have all these beautiful machines, but we can hardly afford the several thousand dollars DEC asks for an ordinary software license. This is why we write this message to the info-tops20 list. The local DEC people are not unwilling to grant us a kind of source license for free, the trouble is that they don't really know how to do it, or to be more precise: They probably could find out what to do, but they would rather see us doing it and then just check if what we found out is right. In a way this is understandable, they don't want to spend their time and money to figure out how we can get something for free :-) So what we would like to know is: o Do you yourself, or anyone you know about have a formal (or not so formal) agreement with dec about the use of TOPS20AN software in binary and source form more or less for free? o Do you know about anyone inside DEC who might know something about such an agreement? Even if you don't know the answer to any of those questions, can you think of anything else that might help us in our attempts to get the source code? With Best Regards, Geir Pedersen and Bj|rn Remseth ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Geir Pedersen Bj|rn Remseth geirp@ifi.uio.no "Use the source, Luke, the source" rmz@ifi.uio.no Chairman OD Secretary OD 3-May-89 18:19:19-PDT,1231;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from Goneril.Stanford.EDU by SCORE.STANFORD.EDU with TCP; Wed 3 May 89 18:17:51-PDT Date: Wed 3 May 89 16:34:38-PDT From: Rich Alderson Subject: DECUS 36-bit working group To: tops-20@score.Stanford.EDU Message-ID: <12491156983.129.A.ALDERSON@Goneril.Stanford.EDU> We will be holding an organizational meeting on Tuesday, 9 May, in the Working Group suite of the Site Management and Training SIG. I don't know the exact time yet, but it will be published in Monday's UPDATE.DAILY. This working group is intended to provide a presence within DECUS for 36-bit systems, now that the Large Systems SIG has disbanded. We expect that most of the issues that will arise for those of us who will keep Tops-20 and Tops-10 boxes around a few more years will have that kind of orientation: How do I keep this thing running now that DEC has dropped it? What kind of problems are others seeing with aging hardware? Etc. If you will be in Atlanta, please try to attend this meeting. We'd like to show Dave Braithwaite that his people will still have someone to support in the years ahead. Rich Alderson ------- 12-May-89 09:36:34-PDT,761;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from SRI-NIC.ARPA by SCORE.STANFORD.EDU with TCP; Fri 12 May 89 09:33:21-PDT Date: Fri, 12 May 89 09:29:25 PDT From: HOSTMASTER@SRI-NIC.ARPA Subject: INTERNET.GATEWAYS Sender: DEBRA@SRI-NIC.ARPA To: tops20@score.stanford.edu cc: hostmaster@SRI-NIC.ARPA Reply-To: HOSTMASTER@SRI-NIC.ARPA Message-ID: <12493438870.51.DEBRA@SRI-NIC.ARPA> This is to inform you that the DDN Network Information Center will discontinue maintenance of the online file NETINFO:INTERNET.GATEWAYS on 15 June 1989. The final version of the file will be available online only until 15 July 1989. Please contact HOSTMASTER@SRI-NIC.ARPA if you have any questions regarding this matter. -- NIC Hostmaster Staff ------- 16-May-89 20:40:44-PDT,752;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL by SCORE.STANFORD.EDU with TCP; Tue 16 May 89 20:39:44-PDT Date: Tue, 16 May 1989 21:39 MDT Message-ID: From: "Frank J. Wancho" To: TOPS20@SCORE.STANFORD.EDU cc: WANCHO@WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL Subject: DUMPER mods Has anyone carefully examined the latest releases of DUMPER (since 6.1) to determine if all the optimization modifications from Columbia, Rutgers, Stanford, and others for the 5.x version have actually found their way into the official version? Because the new version appears to be a major rewrite, a simple source comparison is hopeless... --Frank 17-May-89 09:36:10-PDT,2154;000000000000 Mail-From: VAF created at 17-May-89 09:35:20 Date: Wed 17 May 89 09:35:20-PDT From: Vince Fuller Subject: The end of an era To: TOPS-20@Score.Stanford.EDU Office: Pine Hall 167 Phone: 415-723-6860 Message-ID: <12494750667.19.VAF@Score.Stanford.EDU> Ask not for whom the bell tolls... --------------- Date: Tue 16 May 89 12:15:27-PDT From: Stu Grossman Subject: The demise of Score To: system@Score.Stanford.EDU Message-ID: <12494517670.20.GROSSMAN@Score.Stanford.EDU> ************IMPORTANT NOTICE****************** SCORE USERS Notice to users of SCORE (TOPS 20) The computer system known as SCORE will be decommissioned on August 31, 1989, and on that date SCORE will no longer be available for use. It is important that you make arrangements to off-load any programs and data stored on Score before the August 31st deadline. After that date there may be no available mechanism to recover files. This action is being taken in the normal course of upgrading and replacing computer science department equipment. The replacement machines will use a different operating system (UNIX), so users who want to continue to use machines with the TOPS 20 operating system should make arrangements with other university departments (IR, GSB, etc) or other computer resource suppliers that may offer compatible services. In the future, we may have to limit the number of non-CSD users of CSD-CF equipment. Therefore, we ask those outside users who wish to continue using CSD computers to contact CSD-CF to discuss their expected needs. We do not want the change to leave anyone without computing resources, and we will work with you to develop alternatives. Please send questions and inquiries to Action@Score or Admin@Score. James E. Ball Director, CSD-CF ------- ------- 17-May-89 14:42:19-PDT,587;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from TOPS20.DEC.COM by SCORE.STANFORD.EDU with TCP; Wed 17 May 89 14:41:46-PDT Date: 17 May 1989 1737-EDT From: "Andy Puchrik" To: Tops-20@score.stanford.edu ATT: 508-467-7157 DTN: 297-7157 Subject: RE: End of an era : SCORE Message-ID: <"MS11(6044)+GLXLIB6(0)" 12494805697.16.321.99388 at TOPS20.DEC.COM> It's hard to believe that SCORE is shutting down. I see about 50 sites running Tops-20 on HOSTS.TXT. I wonder how many Tops-20 systems will be on the Internet this Summer? asp -------- 13-Jun-89 23:37:55-MDT,541;000000000000 Mail-From: WANCHO created at 13-Jun-89 23:37:52 Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1989 23:37 MDT Message-ID: From: "Frank J. Wancho" To: TOPS20@WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL cc: WANCHO@WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL Subject: SYSDPY Output Byte Count I don't believe I've ever seen the Output Byte Count in the SYSDPY ANCnn display have a "reasonable" value. Has anybody tried to fix it, or is it simply not possible to display a reasonable value in that slot? --Frank 14-Jun-89 14:11:22-MDT,797;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from MATHOM.CISCO.COM by WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL with TCP; Wed, 14 Jun 89 14:10:58 MDT Date: Wed 14 Jun 89 13:04:51-PDT From: William Westfield Subject: Re: SYSDPY Output Byte Count To: WANCHO@WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL cc: TOPS20@WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <12502128840.18.BILLW@MATHOM.CISCO.COM> I have tried to fix it, and it is simply not possible (well, not without changing the monitor). The byte counts are calculated as differences between the current sequence numbers and the initial sequence numbers. Unfortunately, the tops20 TCP only keeps track of ONE of the initial sequence numbers. Bill Westfield cisco Systems. ------- 16-Jun-89 01:09:27-MDT,516;000000000000 Mail-From: WANCHO created at 16-Jun-89 01:09:24 Date: Fri, 16 Jun 1989 01:09 MDT Message-ID: From: "Frank J. Wancho" To: TOPS20@WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL cc: WANCHO@WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL Subject: FTPSRT NLST bug Problem: NLST returns the directory name when there's only one file in the currently connected directory. Cure: In FTPSRT.MAC, change the NLSFMT definition to contain ..DIRD instead of ..DIRA. --Frank 17-Jun-89 23:39:29-MDT,1559;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from hanna.cac.washington.edu by WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL with TCP; Sat, 17 Jun 89 23:39:22 MDT Received: from tomobiki-cho.cac.washington.edu by hanna.cac.washington.edu (5.61/UW-NDC Revision: 1.99 ) id AA04529; Sat, 17 Jun 89 22:38:04 -0700 Date: Sat, 17 Jun 1989 22:30:07 PDT From: Mark Crispin Subject: KS10 boot errors To: Roll@Kicki.Stacken.KTH.SE Cc: TOPS-20@WSMR-SIMTEL20.Army.Mil Message-Id: Hi. I am in the process of bringing PANDA back up. Before bringing up the disks I am trying to boot from tape. However, when I try an MT to the KS10> prompt on any of my bootable tapes (monitor bootstrap, KSFORM, RED#3) the tape moves forward a tiny bit, backspaces to the loadpoint (and the Phase Encoded light goes on on the TM03) and then it doesn't do anything. After a period of time I get ?BT 154721. My listing of the KS10 console program has long since disappeared. Can anyone tell me what this error means, or how I can try to figure out what's going on? I don't think it could have possibly moved the tape far enough to load microcode. I tried the obvious thing of trying a different Massbus cable. Same results. It is getting as far as moving the tape and getting the controller to recognize it as a 1600 BPI tape. I'd really rather run diagnostics before playing with the disks, since all I have to work with are my real filesystem disks! -- Mark -- ------- 19-Jun-89 15:39:47-MDT,1356;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from KICKI.STACKEN.KTH.SE by WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL with TCP; Mon, 19 Jun 89 15:39:34 MDT Return-Path: Date: 19-Jun-89 23:40:39 +0200 From: Jan Lien To: tops20@wsmr-simtel20.army.mil, ksowner@KICKI.STACKEN.KTH.SE cc: lien@xerxes.stacken.kth.se Subject: KS-10 <=> RM03 boot problems Message-ID: <12503478845.22.1052.116460@KICKI.STACKEN.KTH.SE> Does anybody know the correct parameters for ONCE when booting from tape with a RM03 connected ? I am trying to boot a KS-10 with TOPS-10, ver 7.02 or 7.03, from a TU-77, with one RM03. (THe system boots fine when I connect a RP 06 disk). I have tried booting with a lot of different values, but I never get thru. The system always hangs with one or two CPU Stopcodes. The stopcodes depend upon the values I feed ONCE with, and this also determines at which point the system hangs. I have been able to get as far as to see the prompt ".To automatically login as 1,2 type LOGIN" after specifying structure to refresh. Any body who has an idea of the correct values, or do I have to try all combinations :-) ? Or if you know any installation who runs KS-10 with RM 03 disk, please give me telephone number to that installation ! Thanks - Jan Lien -------- 23-Jun-89 15:09:18-MDT,1196;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from Score.Stanford.EDU by WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL with TCP; Fri, 23 Jun 89 15:09:15 MDT Date: Fri 23 Jun 89 14:06:59-PDT From: Vince Fuller Subject: [Lawrence.Butcher@g.gp.cs.cmu.edu: 20] To: TOPS-20@Score.Stanford.EDU Office: Pine Hall 167 Phone: 415-723-6860 Message-ID: <12504499446.18.VAF@Score.Stanford.EDU> Does anyone have an interest in this? I tend to doubt that Stanford does, given the rate at which they are shutting-off DEC-20's... --Vince --------------- Return-Path: <@cs.cmu.edu:Lawrence.Butcher@G.GP.CS.CMU.EDU> Received: from CS.CMU.EDU by SCORE.STANFORD.EDU with TCP; Fri 23 Jun 89 10:26:46-PDT Received: from G.GP.CS.CMU.EDU by CS.CMU.EDU; 23 Jun 89 13:26:20 EDT Date: Friday, 23 June 1989 13:25:31 EDT From: Lawrence.Butcher@g.gp.cs.cmu.edu To: fuller@cs.cmu.edu Subject: 20 Message-ID: <1989.6.23.17.24.18.Lawrence.Butcher@G.GP.CS.CMU.EDU> We have a 20 which is not plugged in. Does Stanford want it??? We would entertain ANY reasonable offer, if it were for a site which will USE it, not scrap it. Anyone you can talk to?? Lawrence ------- 25-Jun-89 18:31:17-MDT,579;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from lcs.mit.edu by WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL with TCP; Sun, 25 Jun 89 18:30:10 MDT Received: from kicki.stacken.kth.se by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa01948; 25 Jun 89 15:56 EDT Return-Path: Date: 25-Jun-89 21:55:43 +0200 From: Jan Lien To: tops20@wsmr-simtel20.army.mil Subject: Meeting in Anaheim Message-ID: <12505032606.26.1052.33060@KICKI.STACKEN.KTH.SE> When is the 36-bit meeting scheduled for ? In Anaheim, is that in California ? -------- 27-Jun-89 05:29:27-MDT,1162;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from MCC.COM by WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL with TCP; Tue, 27 Jun 89 05:29:24 MDT Date: Tue 27 Jun 89 05:07:05-CDT From: Clive Dawson Subject: Re: Meeting in Anaheim To: LIEN@kicki.stacken.kth.se cc: tops20@wsmr-simtel20.army.mil In-Reply-To: <12505032606.26.1052.33060@KICKI.STACKEN.KTH.SE> Message-ID: <12505427893.14.AI.CLIVE@MCC.COM> Yes, we are planning a 36-Bit 25th Anniversary Celebration for the Fall Decus Symposium, November 6-10, in Anaheim, California. Anybody who has any ideas for this event, or would like to help in the planning, should contact me (Clive@MCC.COM) or Betsy Ramsey (ramsey%cuavax.dnet@netcon.cua.edu). It's hard to tell how many 36-bit'ers will show up, considering that our numbers at DECUS have been steadily shrinking over the last couple of years. As most of you know, the Large Systems SIG was disolved a while back, and (as they say in diplomatic circles) "our interests" (e.g. session scheduling, etc.) are now being handled by a committee of the Site Management SIG. At the very least, we will all go out to dinner! Clive ------- 28-Jun-89 21:55:38-MDT,1430;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from hanna.cac.washington.edu by WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL with TCP; Wed, 28 Jun 89 21:55:02 MDT Received: from tomobiki-cho.cac.washington.edu by hanna.cac.washington.edu (5.61/UW-NDC Revision: 1.99 ) id AA23118; Wed, 28 Jun 89 17:02:52 -0700 Date: Wed, 28 Jun 1989 16:49:35 PDT From: Mark Crispin Sender: mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU Subject: Re: Meeting in Anaheim To: Clive Dawson Cc: tops20@wsmr-simtel20.army.mil In-Reply-To: <12505427893.14.AI.CLIVE@MCC.COM> Message-Id: Clive - I am, of course, *very* interested in the 36-Bit 25th Anniversary Celebration. I suggest that we have many of the same activities we had at the 20th Anniversary Celebration, albeit on a smaller scale, maybe :-). I have in mind a Trivia Bowl, a Pioneer's Roundtable, a Memorabilia Swap, and a console panel auction. I am determined to get a KI-10 front panel *this* time. :-) We should also have some panels on keeping your PDP-10 healthy and happy in its Golden Years. It would be very nice if we could have a panel involving all those people who have home PDP-10's. Peter Lothberg should be invited as a guest and asked to give a talk about his computer farm. And, definitely, there should be a banquet. -- Mark -- ------- 1-Jul-89 16:59:24-MDT,1083;000000000000 Return-Path: <@Score.Stanford.EDU:MRC@wsmr-simtel20.army.mil> Received: from Score.Stanford.EDU by WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL with TCP; Sat, 1 Jul 89 16:59:18 MDT Received: from hanna.cac.washington.edu by SCORE.STANFORD.EDU with TCP; Sat 1 Jul 89 15:58:54-PDT Received: from tomobiki-cho.cac.washington.edu by hanna.cac.washington.edu (5.61/UW-NDC Revision: 1.108 ) id AA09982; Sat, 1 Jul 89 15:58:54 -0700 Date: Sat, 1 Jul 1989 15:53:37 PDT From: Mark Crispin Subject: PANDA arises from the dead, still a bit drowsy... To: TOPS-20@Score.Stanford.EDU Message-Id: On July 1, 1989, PANDA.PANDA.COM executed its first TOPS-20 cycles since the end of September 1988. One 64K memory board definitely went bad and has been replaced. The tape drive and lineprinter are still down. E-mail service to PANDA.PANDA.COM is still down, but should resume shortly. Don't send any important mail to me there, since without a tape drive there are no backups... -- Mark -- ------- 2-Jul-89 00:13:26-MDT,1298;000000000000 Return-Path: <@Score.Stanford.EDU:jeff@uhccux.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu> Received: from Score.Stanford.EDU by WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL with TCP; Sun, 2 Jul 89 00:13:23 MDT Received: from uhics.ics.hawaii.edu by SCORE.STANFORD.EDU with TCP; Sat 1 Jul 89 23:13:16-PDT Received: from uhccux.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu by uhics.ics.hawaii.edu (4.0/UHICS-MX-1.4) id AA12725; Sat, 1 Jul 89 20:13:48 HST Received: by uhccux.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (5.57/Ultrix2.2) id AA13611; Sat, 1 Jul 89 20:13:37-1000 Date: Sat, 1 Jul 89 20:13:37-1000 From: Jeff Blomberg To: tops-20@SCORE.STANFORD.EDU Subject: Obituary Message-Id: Today, July 1st 00:00-HST, the Universiy of Hawaii's DECSYSTEM-2065 went off the air permanently after a terminal illness. It is survived by an 8650 (Ultrix), an 8550 (VMS), and a bevy of workstations. A private funeral will be held in 2 weeks. We are grateful for the service it provided, and wish it well in the great computer room in the sky. Please observe a moment of silence. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey Blomberg -- University of Hawaii Computing Center -- 808/948-7351 Internet: jeff@uhccux.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu BITNET: jeff@uhccux.BITNET 2-Jul-89 12:51:29-MDT,876;000000000000 Return-Path: <@Score.Stanford.EDU:mrc@wsmr-simtel20.army.mil> Received: from Score.Stanford.EDU by WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL with TCP; Sun, 2 Jul 89 12:51:27 MDT Received: from hanna.cac.washington.edu by SCORE.STANFORD.EDU with TCP; Sun 2 Jul 89 11:51:17-PDT Received: from tomobiki-cho.cac.washington.edu by hanna.cac.washington.edu (5.61/UW-NDC Revision: 1.108 ) id AA02612; Sun, 2 Jul 89 11:51:06 -0700 Date: Sun, 2 Jul 1989 11:47:15 PDT From: Mark Crispin Subject: re: Obituary To: Jeff Blomberg Cc: tops-20@SCORE.STANFORD.EDU In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Jeff - So, the same day that PANDA is reborn your machine died. Maybe a form of reincarnation is happening? -- Mark -- ------- 2-Jul-89 20:55:21-MDT,981;000000000000 Mail-From: PANDA created at 2-Jul-89 20:54:49 Return-Path: Received: from PANDA.PANDA.COM by WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL with Cafard; Sun, 2 Jul 89 20:54:49 MDT Date: Sun, 2 Jul 89 19:11:09 PDT From: Mark Crispin Subject: Hello, world! To: TOPS-20@WSMR-SIMTEL20.Army.MIL Postal: 6158 Lariat Loop NE; Bainbridge Island, WA 98110-2020 Phone: +1 (206) 842-2385 Message-ID: <12506914116.8.MRC@PANDA.PANDA.COM> If you got this message, it is because PANDA.PANDA.COM's mail link has become functional. PANDA's tape drive and lineprinter are still down, and two memory boards did not make it. Otherwise, PANDA seems to be back and happily crunching TOPS-20 cycles, eating power that only costs half as much as in California. I hope that PANDA's resurgence from the ashes, like that of the proverbial phoenix, will inspire other 36-bit lovers to continue keeping our beloved dinosaurs alive. -- Mark -- ------- 4-Jul-89 07:31:30-MDT,706;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from KICKI.STACKEN.KTH.SE by WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL with TCP; Tue, 4 Jul 89 07:31:20 MDT Return-Path: Address: "PoBox:36041, SE-100 71 Stockholm, SWEDEN" Organization: Stacken Computer Club Telephone: +46-8-669 9720 Date: 4-Jul-89 15:31:02 +0200 From: Peter Lothberg To: tops20@wsmr-simtel20.army.mil Subject: Dumper program for non Tops-20 system Message-ID: <12507321873.25.411.11680@KICKI.STACKEN.KTH.SE> I'm out to find a program that can read and write 9-trk magtapes in Tops20 (interchange) format. I need the sources in any high-level language. -Peter -------- 5-Jul-89 09:45:43-MDT,1900;000000000000 Return-Path: <@Score.Stanford.EDU:ADMIN@TOPS20.RADC.AF.MIL> Received: from Score.Stanford.EDU by WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL with TCP; Wed, 5 Jul 89 09:44:45 MDT Received: from TOPS20.RADC.AF.MIL by SCORE.STANFORD.EDU with TCP; Wed 5 Jul 89 07:18:08-PDT Date: Wed 5 Jul 89 10:17:45-EST From: Donna Lynch Subject: net tools To: tops-20@SCORE.STANFORD.EDU cc: admin@TOPS20.RADC.AF.MIL Message-ID: <12507581599.9.ADMIN@TOPS20.RADC.AF.MIL> Again, I need help. I am sure there are some programs written for what I need, but I dont know what they are or how to use them. I am running JEEVES and CHIVES. People complain about my server but I seem to have no way of testing it. They tell me I am not returning a name given an address. I dont know if they are right or wrong. I thought I was doing it properly. I tried GTDTST but it returns some names but not others. It seems to get only the names that are in the host table. I have to names that are listed one after the other in my IN-ADDR file, it gets one name but not the other. So I dont think GTDTST is the right tool. I have tried QUERY as well but I cant get any useful information from it. If QUERY is the right tool I need information on how to use it. If there are other tools with JEEVES, then the same holds true. My secondary server can not dump my server to do automatic updates. What are other people doing to solve this problem? Can I ping a host? I dont know how. Can I tell what path (gateways) we are using or trying to use to get to a host? Or when I cant get to a host, where is the path failing? We are on NYSERNET and are forever having problems. I feel I am running the network software in the dark and I dont like it much. Especially when all the hosts around me say, "You cant do that, we can." Any help will be much appreciated, Donna ------- 5-Jul-89 12:21:34-MDT,1054;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from Macbeth.Stanford.EDU by WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL with TCP; Wed, 5 Jul 89 12:21:28 MDT Date: Wed 5 Jul 89 11:21:15-PDT From: Sean L. Welsh Subject: Re: Meeting in Anaheim To: MRC@CAC.Washington.EDU cc: AI.CLIVE@mcc.com, tops20@wsmr-simtel20.army.mil In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <12507615004.11.W.WELSH@Macbeth.Stanford.EDU> Mark, While I would also like to see some of the things you suggest, you should be aware that the CFP deadline has come and gone for Anaheim. Also, we have very limited slots on the symposium schedule; remember, we do not have the resources of a whole SIG or SIC with which to work here. Any "session" we would like to have along the lines of your suggestions would have to be scheduled informally on-site. We would welcome any assistance you can provide in gathering support for some 36-bit Birds-Of-a-Feather sessions in Anaheim. Sean ------- 5-Jul-89 12:21:38-MDT,748;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from Score.Stanford.EDU by WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL with TCP; Wed, 5 Jul 89 12:21:33 MDT Date: Wed 5 Jul 89 11:21:06-PDT From: Edjik Subject: Re: Dumper program for non Tops-20 system To: ROLL@kicki.stacken.kth.se cc: tops20@WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL In-Reply-To: <12507321873.25.411.11680@KICKI.STACKEN.KTH.SE> Message-ID: <12507614977.44.G.EGK@Score.Stanford.EDU> this is not a joke. Seeing peters message reminded me of my need to find a dumper reading program that runs on an ibm-pc. if one doenst exist, ill take any dumper reading program written in a HLL, (the same one peter is looking for), and convert it to the PC. Thanks much. --E+ ------- 5-Jul-89 14:04:50-MDT,1246;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from lcs.mit.edu by WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL with TCP; Wed, 5 Jul 89 14:04:44 MDT Received: from kicki.stacken.kth.se by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa21662; 5 Jul 89 16:02 EDT Return-Path: Address: "PoBox:36041, SE-100 71 Stockholm, SWEDEN" Organization: Stacken Computer Club Telephone: +46-8-669 9720 References: Message from Edjik of 5-Jul-89 20:22:40 In-reply-to: <12507614977.44.G.EGK@Score.Stanford.EDU> Date: 5-Jul-89 22:00:25 +0200 From: Peter Lothberg To: Edjik cc: tops20@wsmr-simtel20.army.mil Subject: Re: Dumper program for non Tops-20 system Message-ID: <12507654902.24.411.13360@KICKI.STACKEN.KTH.SE> This is exactly what i want to do. I have a 1/2" tape streamer that I plan to hook to a PC. But, uncommon to those who only wants to read old tapes, from their retired DEC20, i want to be able to write tapes for the -20 from the PC. (And do backup of the PC winchester in T20 tape format, so i can read the backup if the PC stops working or gets outdatet by some new exotic hardware.) -Peter -------- 5-Jul-89 15:11:25-MDT,1223;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from hanna.cac.washington.edu by WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL with TCP; Wed, 5 Jul 89 15:11:06 MDT Received: from tomobiki-cho.cac.washington.edu by hanna.cac.washington.edu (5.61/UW-NDC Revision: 2.1 ) id AA02888; Wed, 5 Jul 89 14:10:40 -0700 Date: Wed, 5 Jul 1989 13:35:11 PDT From: Mark Crispin Sender: mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU Subject: Re: Meeting in Anaheim To: Sean L. Welsh Cc: AI.CLIVE@mcc.com, tops20@wsmr-simtel20.army.mil In-Reply-To: <12507615004.11.W.WELSH@Macbeth.Stanford.EDU> Message-Id: Sean - I realize the problem and regret not having done something about it before, but as you know I've been "offline" from the TOPS-20 world since last September. Since it's too late to get things done completely in the context of DECUS, how much *can* we do "informally"? Perhaps we can get a head count of the number of people interested in doing something? The only reason I would go to DECUS is to attend a 36-bit get- together, so it would have to be enough to justify going. -- Mark -- ------- 6-Jul-89 08:59:00-MDT,3941;000000000000 Return-Path: <@Score.Stanford.EDU:sra@bigboote.LCS.MIT.EDU> Received: from Score.Stanford.EDU by WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL with TCP; Thu, 6 Jul 89 08:58:47 MDT Received: from bigboote.LCS.MIT.EDU by SCORE.STANFORD.EDU with TCP; Thu 6 Jul 89 07:58:17-PDT Received: by bigboote.LCS.MIT.EDU id AA08680; Thu, 6 Jul 89 10:58:06 EDT Date: Thu, 6 Jul 89 10:58:06 EDT Message-Id: <8907061458.AA08680@bigboote.LCS.MIT.EDU> From: Rob Austein Sender: sra@bigboote.LCS.MIT.EDU To: ADMIN@tops20.radc.af.mil Cc: tops-20@score.stanford.edu In-Reply-To: Donna Lynch's message of Wed 5 Jul 89 10:17:45-EST <12507581599.9.ADMIN@TOPS20.RADC.AF.MIL> Subject: net tools Donna, I am running JEEVES and CHIVES. People complain about my server but I seem to have no way of testing it. They tell me I am not returning a name given an address. I dont know if they are right or wrong. I thought I was doing it properly. You want a copy of the QDOMAIN program, a completely unsupported hack written by Gail Zacharias back when there was an OZ.AI.MIT.EDU. It has a nice COMND% interface and allows you to send arbitrary questions to a user specified domain name server. In this case you'd want to use it to query your own host. We (MIT) no longer have any PDP-10s with Internet connections, so it would be challenging for me to get you a copy of this. Perhaps Mark Crispin or somebody at Stanford or SRI still has a copy. If not, there should be a copy on the tape I sent to Frank Wancho for the TOPS-20 archiving project. If you have a unix machine handy, you might want to get a copy of the ISI "DiG" program, which has approximately the same functionality. I tried GTDTST but it returns some names but not others. It seems to get only the names that are in the host table. I have to names that are listed one after the other in my IN-ADDR file, it gets one name but not the other. So I dont think GTDTST is the right tool. Keep in mind that GTDTST queries the resolver, not the name server, and that the CHIVES resolver and the JEEVES nameserver are completely separate programs that (in your case) happen to reside on the same machine. That said, I don't know what these results mean. I have tried QUERY as well but I cant get any useful information from it. If QUERY is the right tool I need information on how to use it. If there are other tools with JEEVES, then the same holds true. You should talk to Paul Mockapetris , the author of JEEVES, to see if you an get a copy of the JEEVES manual, which should at least tell you what's part of the JEEVES package and how it all hangs together. Don't expect too much. JEEVES was never really finished and its development was heavily oriented towards providing a stable root nameserver with a lot of telemetry for protocol designers, rather than a straightforward TOPS-20 system daemon. My secondary server can not dump my server to do automatic updates. What are other people doing to solve this problem? JEEVEVS can't provide this, period. The code was never written. We (MIT-LCS) use FTP even between unix hosts because it gives us better control over the installation process on the secondary servers and thus allows us to check that everything made it across the net ok before committing to new zone versions on the secondary servers. Can I ping a host? I dont know how. Can I tell what path (gateways) we are using or trying to use to get to a host? Or when I cant get to a host, where is the path failing? We are on NYSERNET and are forever having problems. The TOPS-20 IP/ICMP code doesn't have the hooks that one would need to provide these utilities in any straightforward way. Perhaps something could be cobbled together but I'm not aware of anyone having done so. Good luck. --Rob 7-Jul-89 06:29:36-MDT,725;000000000000 Return-Path: <@Score.Stanford.EDU:ADMIN@TOPS20.RADC.AF.MIL> Received: from Score.Stanford.EDU by WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL with TCP; Fri, 7 Jul 89 06:29:32 MDT Received: from TOPS20.RADC.AF.MIL by SCORE.STANFORD.EDU with TCP; Fri 7 Jul 89 05:28:53-PDT Date: Fri 7 Jul 89 08:28:34-EST From: Donna Lynch Subject: RE: net tools To: tops-20@score.stanford.edu cc: admin@TOPS20.RADC.AF.MIL Message-ID: <12508086012.11.ADMIN@TOPS20.RADC.AF.MIL> It seems that QUERY does provide the necessary information. As I suspected, I just didnt know how to use it. Thanks to Alan Larson for the information. I got only negatives on the PING and routing information though. Thanks, Donna ------- 10-Jul-89 12:24:55-MDT,389;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from ccr1.bbn.com by WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL with TCP; Mon, 10 Jul 89 12:24:50 MDT Date: Mon, 10 Jul 89 14:23 EDT From: JERRY WEINER X3242 Subject: AMPEX ARM20S Memory spares/repair To: TOPS-20@WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.mil Anyone know of a source for repair or spares for AMPEX ARM-20S MOS memory. Thanx, Jerry 11-Jul-89 10:36:03-MDT,1660;000000000000 Return-Path: <@Score.Stanford.EDU:jzj@MSR.EPM.ORNL.GOV> Received: from Score.Stanford.EDU by WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL with TCP; Tue, 11 Jul 89 10:35:56 MDT Received: from MSR.EPM.ORNL.GOV by SCORE.STANFORD.EDU with TCP; Tue 11 Jul 89 09:35:23-PDT Received: by MSR.EPM.ORNL.GOV (5.51/4.9) id AA23498; Tue, 11 Jul 89 12:35:11 EDT Date: Tue, 11 Jul 89 12:35:11 EDT From: jzj@MSR.EPM.ORNL.GOV (Jeff Jones) Message-Id: <8907111635.AA23498@MSR.EPM.ORNL.GOV> To: tops-20@score.stanford.edu Subject: TOPS-20/VMS NFT/FAL problem We just upgraded one of our VAXclusters from VMS V4.7 to V5.0-2. After the upgrade, we started experiencing file transfer failures between the DEC-20 and the VAX when they originated on the VMS side. After further investigation, file transfers only failed when they are accessing a structure other than PS:. All of the failing transfers originate on the VAX and are copying a file from the DEC-20 to the VAX. File transfers originating on the DEC-20 work fine. File transfers originating on the VAX and copying a file to the DEC-20 work fine. Taking a directory originating on the VAX always fail. The error message on the failing transfers is "file not found". We are running TOPS-20 V6.1 autopatched through tape #18. I've looked through the TOPS-20 V7.0 Autopatch tapes (19, 20, 21) and have not found any patches dealing with this. It looks like FAL is not handling the file specification correctly as passed by the new version of VMS. Before I dig into FAL, I thought I would see if anyone has seen this before. Thanks, Jeff Jones Martin Marietta Energy Systems, Inc. (615)576-2335 22-Jul-89 19:06:25-MDT,12897;000000000000 Mail-From: PANDA created at 22-Jul-89 18:57:14 Return-Path: Received: from PANDA.PANDA.COM by WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL with Cafard; Sat, 22 Jul 89 18:57:14 MDT Date: Sat, 22 Jul 89 17:29:10 PDT From: Mark Crispin Subject: a useful program To: TOPS-20@WSMR-SIMTEL20.Army.MIL Postal: 6158 Lariat Loop NE; Bainbridge Island, WA 98110-2020 Phone: +1 (206) 842-2385 Message-ID: <12512138430.3.MRC@PANDA.PANDA.COM> Here's a program to set your system's time from the National Bureau of Standard's time server. It is based on an ancient hack written for PANDA a few years ago. It assumes a DEC DF112 modem for dialing at the TTY lines listed in DILTAB:. Feel free to hack or improve it for your own use! TITLE TIMCHK dial-up style SEARCH MACSYM,MONSYM .TEXT "TIMCHK/SAVE" .REQUIRE SYS:MACREL STDAC. COMMENT % DESCRIPTION OF THE AUTOMATED COMPUTER TELEPHONE SERVICE (ACTS) (303) 494-4774 The following is transmitted (at 1200 baud) following completion of the telephone connection. ? = HELP National Bureau of Standards Telephone Time Service D L D MJD YR MO DA H M S ST S UT1 msADV OTM 47222 88-03-02 21:39:15 83 0 +.3 045.0 UTC(NBS) * 47222 88-03-02 21:39:16 83 0 +.3 045.0 UTC(NBS) * 47222 88-03-02 21:39:17 83 0 +.3 045.0 UTC(NBS) * 47222 88-03-02 21:39:18 83 0 +.3 045.0 UTC(NBS) * 47222 88-03-02 21:39:19 83 0 +.3 037.6 UTC(NBS) # 47222 88-03-02 21:39:20 83 0 +.3 037.6 UTC(NBS) # etc..etc...etc....... UTC = Universal Time Coordinated, the official world time referred to the zero meridian. _________________________________________________________________________ DST = Daylight savings time characters, valid for the continental U.S., are set as follows: 00 = We are on standard time (ST). 50 = We are on DST. 99 to 51 = Now on ST, go to DST when your local time is 2:00 am and the count is 51. The count is decremented daily at 00 (UTC). 49 to 01 = Now on DST, go to ST when your local time is 2:00 am and the count is 01. The count is decremented daily at 00 (UTC). The two DST characters provide up to 48 days advance notice of a change in time. The count remains at 00 or 50 at other times. _________________________________________________________________________ LS = Leap second flag is set to "1" to indicate that a leap second is to be added as 23:59:60 (UTC) on the last day of the current UTC month. The LS flag will be reset to "0" starting with 23:59:60 (UTC). The flag will remain on for the entire month before the second is added. Leap seconds are added as needed at the end of any month. Usually June and/or December are chosen. The leap second flag will be set to a "2" to indicate that a leap second is to be deleted at 23:59:58--00:00:00 on the last day of the current month. (This latter provision is included per international recommendation however it is not likely to be required in the near future.) __________________________________________________________________________ DUT1 = Approximate difference between earth rotation time (UT1) and UTC, in steps of 0.1 second. DUT1 = UT1 - UTC ___________________________________________________________________________ MJD = Modified Julian Date, often used to tag certain scientific data. ___________________________________________________________________________ The full time format is sent at 1200 baud, 8 bit, 1 stop, no parity. The HH:MM:SS msADV time format at 300 baud is also 8 bit, 1 stop, no parity. ___________________________________________________________________________ Maximum on line time will be 55 seconds. If all lines are busy at any time, the oldest call will be terminated if it has been on line more than 15 seconds, otherwise, the call that first reaches 15 seconds will be terminated. ___________________________________________________________________________ Current time is valid at the "on-time" marker (OTM), either "*" or "#". The nominal on-time marker (*) will be transmitted 45 ms early to account for the 8 ms required to send 1 character at 1200 baud, plus an additional 7 ms for delay from NBS to the user, and approximately 30 ms "scrambler" delay inherent in 1200 baud modems. If the caller echoes all characters, NBS will measure the round trip delay and advance the on-time marker so that the midpoint of the stop bit arrives at the user on time. The amount of msADV will reflect the actual required advance in milliseconds and the OTM will be a "#". The NBS system requires 4 consecutive delay measurements which are consistent before switching from "*" to "#". If the user has a 1200 baud modem with the same internal delay as that used by NBS, then the "#" OTM should arrive at the user within +-2 ms of the correct time. However, NBS has studied different brands of 1200 baud modems and found internal delays from 24 ms to 40 ms and offsets of the "#" OTM of +-10 ms. For many computer users, +-10 ms accuracy should be more than adequate since many computer internal clocks can only be set with granularity of 20 to 50 ms. In any case, the repeatability of the offset for the "#" OTM should be within +-2 ms, if the dial-up path is reciprocal and the user doesn't change the brand or model of modem used. This should be true even if the dial-up path on one day is a land-line of less than 40 ms (one way) and on the next day is a satellite link of 260 to 300 ms. In the rare event that the path is one way by satellite and the other way by land line with a round trip measurement in the range of 90 to 260 ms, the OTM will remain a "*" indicating 45 ms advance. For the user who wants the best possible accuracy at the OTM, NBS offers an alternate 300 baud service with only HH:MM:SS MSADV and OTM. To use the alternate service, simply call at 300 baud. Because of the simple FSK modulation scheme used at 300 baud, all modems tested had the same delay within about 1 ms. ___________________________________________________________________________ The full time format will be sent at 1200 baud, 8 bit, 1 stop, no parity. The HH:MM:SS MSADV time format at 300 baud will also be 8b, 1s, np. For user comments write: NBS-ACTS Time and Frequency Division Mail Stop 524 325 Broadway Boulder, CO 80303 Software for setting DOS compatable machines is available on a 360-kbyte diskette for $35.00 from: NBS Office of Standard Reference Materials B311-Chemistry Bldg, NBS, Gaithersburg, MD, 20899, (301) 975-6776 % EVEC: JRST TIMCHK JRST TIMCHK EVECL==.-EVEC TIMCHK: RESET% MOVE P,[IOWD PDLLEN,PDL] MOVX T1,.DBUGSW ; check state of debugging GETAB% EJSHLT CAILE T1,2 ; ignore if DBUGSW .GT. 2 HALTF% ; no, stop now then MOVX T1,.FHSLF SETOB T2,T3 EPCAP% MOVSI P1,DILTBL ; init dialer list DO. MOVX T1,GJ%SHT ; grab the dialer HRRO T2,DILTAB(P1) GTJFN% IFNJE. MOVEM T1,DIALER ; note dialer JFN MOVX T2,<!OF%WR!OF%RD> ; now open it OPENF% IFNJE. ; we got it ENDIF. AOBJN P1,TOP. ; try next dialer JSHLT ENDDO. MOVSI P1,-SRVTBL ; init server list DO. MOVX T2,.MOHUP ; make sure DTR is down MTOPR% EJSHLT MOVX T1,^D1000 ; wait a while to let the phone stabilize DISMS% MOVE T1,DIALER ; now bring DTR up MOVX T2,.MOUHU MTOPR% EJSHLT CFIBF% ; flush whatever may have been there before MOVX T2,.CHCNB ; init the modem BOUT% BOUT% ; send two to be sure MOVE T1,[5,,[ASCIZ/Ready/]] ; get expected Ready response CALL GETRSP LOOP. MOVE T1,DIALER ; tone dialing... MOVEI T2,"T" BOUT% MOVE T1,[2,,[ASCIZ/T/]] ; be sure it is echoed CALL GETRSP LOOP. HRLI T3,<(POINT 7,)> ; make pointer to dial string HRR T3,SRVTAB(P1) DO. ILDB T2,T3 ; get character for dialer JUMPE T2,ENDLP. MOVE T1,DIALER BOUT% MOVX T1,^D100 ; dally just a little bit DISMS% LOOP. ENDDO. MOVSI T1,3 ; check for this echo too HRR T1,SRVTAB(P1) CALL GETRSP LOOP. MOVE T1,DIALER ; now start it dialing... MOVEI T2,"#" BOUT% MOVE T1,[30,,[ASCIZ/Attached/]] CALL GETRSP IFSKP. MOVE T1,[30,,[ASCIZ/Time/]] ; wait for "Time" CALL GETRSP ANSKP. MOVE T1,[10,,[ASCIZ/*/]] ; wait for first time to pass CALL GETRSP ANSKP. MOVSI T3,100 ; timeout this way DO. MOVE T1,DIALER SIBE% IFSKP. SOJG T3,TOP. ; zzz... ELSE. CALL GETCHR CAIE T2,.CHSPC ; saw the first space? LOOP. ; keep looking ENDIF. ENDDO. ANDG. T3 ; timeout better not have expired TIME% ; get current uptime MOVEM T1,BASE ; save as base MOVE Q1,[POINT 7,STRING] ; read in daytime string into buffer MOVX Q2,-1 ; limit MOVSI T3,100 ; timeout DO. MOVE T1,DIALER SIBE% IFSKP. SOJG T3,TOP. ; zzz... ELSE. CALL GETCHR CAIN T2,"*" ; at the end? EXIT. ; done IDPB T2,Q1 ; store this byte SOJG Q2,TOP. ; keep looking ENDIF. ENDDO. ANDG. Q2 ; check for overflow ANDG. T3 ; timeout better not have expired... LDB T1,[POINT 14,STRING,13] ; get year LDB T2,[POINT 14,STRING+1,20] ; get day DPB T2,[POINT 14,STRING,13] ; set year DPB T1,[POINT 14,STRING+1,20] ; set day MOVE T1,[POINT 22,STRING+3,35] MOVX T2,ASCII/ -GM/ ; terminate with "-GMT" DPB T2,T1 MOVX T1,ASCIZ/T/ MOVEM T1,STRING+4 HRROI T1,STRING ; parse the date returned MOVX T2,IT%SNM!IT%ERR!IT%AIS!IT%AAC!IT%NTM IDTIM% ..TAGF (ERJMP,) ; I sure wish ANNJE. existed! MOVEM T2,NETIME TMSG < The time from > HLRO T1,SRVTAB(P1) PSOUT% TMSG < is > MOVX T1,.PRIOU MOVE T2,NETIME SETZ T3, ODTIM% TMSG <. > GTAD% ; see if time now is set MOVEM T1,OLDTIM IFG. T1 ; well? DO. TMSG PBIN% ; get answer MOVEI T2,(T1) ANDX T2,177 TXZ T2,"a"-"A" ; force uppercase CAIE T2,"Y" CAIN T2,"N" EXIT. TMSG < ??? Please answer Y or N > LOOP. ENDDO. TMSG < > CAIE T2,"Y" ; user said "Y"? EXIT. ; no, don't set time ENDIF. TIME% SUB T1,BASE ; get time spent doing this LSH T1,^D18 IDIV T1,[^D<1000*24*60*60>] ; convert to GTAD% format ADD T1,NETIME STAD% EJSHLT SKIPG OLDTIM ; report iff there was an old time IFSKP. MOVE T2,T1 TMSG