What do you wish you had known when you started? reddit / selfhosted ---------------------------------------------------------------------- defekT1312 · 2023-12-20 12:05 I'm finally ready to start my self-hosting Project. I bought an old PC, a 256 GB SSD, a Power Meter, so I can calculate what it will cost me to keep that thing running 24/7 and a Patchkabel to connect it to my Network. There are already 2 250 GB HDD's inside that I want to use for a simple RAID1. Overall nothing special but I think it will be enough as a test environment. I'm really excited to install and configure everything. But I'm also curious for which Problems you came across when you started. Maybe you are even ready to share some Story's with me? I would appreciate everything that you are willing to share. 😊 Also, which services are an absolute Must-have? ​ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- NHarvey3DK · 2023-12-20 12:13 * Forget raspberry pi. Get a NUC or use an old computer and just do proxmox. I’m seriously jaded about how much time I’ve wasted. Proxmox makes everything so damn easy. * Never self-host email * It’s hard to follow instructions when you don’t know how it works. Spend the time researching how docker-compose works and then everything else becomes easier ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Fire597 · 2023-12-20 12:16 I don't regret buying a raspberry pi but yeah if you want server only, just buy something else with AMD processor. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Fire597 · 2023-12-20 12:21 - Don't just follow any random tutorial and do your best to understand everything / check other sources. - Keep in mind that everything you're doing now, you'll probably have to do it again later. Documente everything, backup what you need. - Setting up something isn't that hard. Maintaining it, is. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- housepanther2000 · 2023-12-20 12:35 I wish I didn't buy the SFF desktop for a router that I did. Instead, I wish I had put that money towards a server and used a virtualized router. I didn't learn until later about that possibility. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- r3dk0w · 2023-12-20 12:47 A "server" is just another computer. A lot of people start the hobby thinking they need a rack and a rack-mount server, but just using a normal unused laptop or desktop works just like anything else. More RAM is more important to have than more CPU. I started out using computers with 4GB of ram, and it was always a major restriction. Now that I'm using a mini-pc with 32GB of ram, I don't worry about it at all. Also, traditional rack mount servers are actually terrible for home use. They are noisy, use a LOT of power, and have a lot of complexity that isn't required for home use. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- denim_skirt · 2023-12-20 12:50 Can I respectfully ask why you're against using raspberry pi's? I've been self-hosting on them for years and never had any problems. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- MutMatt · 2023-12-20 13:05 >Never self-host email I have seen this quite a few times but i haven't been able to get much info other than "it's hard." I currently am running mailu docker image and have little to no issues. Outbound smtp is relayed inbound is straight. My delivery seems solid, inbound is fine enough. Am i missing something? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Puntuntu · 2023-12-20 13:10 Not sure what you’ll be hosting but for myself the primary use case for my NAS is as a media server. One thing I wish I had from the start is bigger/ more storage. Pair this with actually reading up on raid configurations and realising from the start that I’d want JBOD. I’ve wasted so much time and effort migrating all of docker/ media from one array to another only to realise that I need to do the same again when I get another HDD and be in the wrong config to add it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- StanPlayZ804 · 2023-12-20 13:12 Yeah, I’ve had no issues either. I self host mailcow in a VM in Proxmox and haven’t had issues with it. Sending and receiving works without issue, and I get a 10/10 score on mail-tester ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ro55mo · 2023-12-20 13:15 I do it myself with Postfix / Dovecot / Fail2Ban / SpamAssassin on a VM. It seems to me most people have trouble with being black listed rather than the actual technology. Admittedly it took me a little while to get it working the first time. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ro55mo · 2023-12-20 13:17 Use virtualization technologies. Virtual machines and / or containers to run the actual services you want. Use your PC as a host for these other services. Work out your backup plan now. How are you going to backup your data, databases and configuration files? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- vdavide · 2023-12-20 13:24 ansible, or another configuration management software. with time you Will rearrange things and doing It by hand trying tò remember what you did months ago Is not funny. my suggestion to the past me is: learn ansible before start ---------------------------------------------------------------------- NikStalwart · 2023-12-20 13:39 > I have seen this quite a few times but i haven't been able to get much info other than "it's hard." I currently am running mailu docker image and have little to no issues. Outbound smtp is relayed inbound is straight. My delivery seems solid, inbound is fine enough. Am i missing something? Different people have different reasons to say 'don't host email'. It can be any or all of the following: * A working mail system requires a lot of software components which are hard to maintain and configure if you don't do it professionally or don't use an all-in-one solution like mailcow/mailu/etc. There are valid reasons for why you should not use a preconfigured system — mainly, you don't know how to fix it when something breaks because you don't know how it works. * A "proper" mail system should have redundancy. Can you get away with one mail server? Yes. Is it industry practice? No. Hosting redundant email is more expensive than paying someone else to do it for you *if* you are the only user and *if* email is the only thing you host. I can justify hosting redundant MX because I already have multiple servers for other needs. But, if you're just starting out, you can pay $5 for one VPS and $5 for another to host just mail, or you can pay $6 to Google/proton/etc. * Not all providers (certainly not residential ISPs) support outbound SMTP. Those that do might not support reverse DNS. Spam filters take multiple factors into account, one of which is matching reverse/forward DNS. * It is hard to keep up with incoming spam filtering. Can you do it? Yeeeeess. Will it be as good as Microsoft or Google, who spend millions on their spam filtering? No, it will not be. If your email address has been on the internet for long enough, it will be an issue for you. Google filters out at least a handful emails per week for me that aren't caught by off-the-shelf tools. * If you need email for business purposes, you may run into deliverability issues for no fault of your own: I know some corporate networks will auto-spam anything that's not coming from Google/Microsoft or other such "trusted" mail providers. * If you're sending volume emails, you need to spend some time navigating various blacklists etc. * If you're using email in a professional context, you might have regulatory compliance / insurance / liability reasons for not wanting to run your own mail server — although someone on this sub decided to block me for pointing that out. * If you want to self-host email for privacy  —  forget about it. *You* may be self-hosting your email, but, chances are, most of the people you communicate with do not. Or, as a blogger once put it, "Google has most of my mail because it has all of yours". I host email 'for fun'. I like the intellectual challenge. But I would not use my 'fun' mail for business or professional communication, or even for sensitive correspondence. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- j0hnp0s · 2023-12-20 13:41 Don't bother with rpi Don't buy on an impulse You need much less than you think ---------------------------------------------------------------------- NikStalwart · 2023-12-20 13:42 Because RPis are toys. They are fun to play with, but, eventually, you need to put the LEGOs down and start playing with bricks and mortar. If you're doing anything *remotely serious* (read: not a media server that sits idle for 23 hours per day), you need performant hardware. The other problems with RPi is that not all software supports ARM. You can run translation layers, but you lose a chunch of performance to the point where you are asking yourself 'why am I even bothering with this?' ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Malossi167 · 2023-12-20 13:43 Considering how cheap and abundant used mini PCs are they have a pretty limited appeal these days. A Pi only cost $40 on paper. You likely want to get a model with more RAM, a microSD, case, heatsink and a PSU. Costs you $100 or more. A Mini PC for this much will still vastly outperform it and they do only use a few W more at idle. And you get a real SSD. Yes, Pis also can use them but this makes them even more expensive. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- NikStalwart · 2023-12-20 13:43 I have never (seldom?) seen someone new to self-hosting come in with the assumption that he needed a rackmount server. Most people who know what a rackmount server is, know they don't need it for home use. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- denim_skirt · 2023-12-20 13:46 Yeah that's fair haha, I am only using it for samba storage and media hosting. Idk works for me use case I guess ---------------------------------------------------------------------- denim_skirt · 2023-12-20 13:47 It's true, and they've gotten more expensive as they've gotten more powerful. I guess my use case made more sense when I started using them years ago - just looked up secondhand mini PCs and you're right, they are not expensive. Interesting! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- NikStalwart · 2023-12-20 13:51 > Also, which services are an absolute Must-have? man-db. It's not a service. It is a tool for storing and reading manual pages. And manual pages are good to read. 9/10 questions can be answered by reading the manual or passing --help to a command. I can't say I wish I knew something going in. I wish I had something going in, though. The thing I wish I had was personal and personalized guidance. In my case, I was proverbially thrown overboard and had to learn to swim in situ. I eventually did. I developed a loathing for so-called "tutorials" because they were, more often then not, condescending wastes of time / SEO stuffing. I had a userscript block all Google search results from dev.to and medium.com to save myself time. If I'm trying to learn obscure boot loader troubleshooting, I most assuredly *do not* need to be told to 'apt-get update'. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- j0hnp0s · 2023-12-20 13:53 Virtualized routers have a bigish minus though. That it's super easy to lose your entire network while working on your machine, for example during updates or restarts or whatever. IMO the router is the one machine that deserves its own hardware. I have it on its own ups with the switch and an LTE modem, and I have virtually uninterruptible internet for everyone, even during power outages. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- NikStalwart · 2023-12-20 13:54 Yeah, RPi is *okay* for a Samba share. Not so okay for a CI/CD system, multiple desktop VMs with GPU passthrough, a proper RAID-protected backup server, et cetera. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Malossi167 · 2023-12-20 14:05 I really like the Pi and I have a few of them but they are not something I would recommend most r/selfhosted users. It is just a poor fit for the use case. With the developments and changes over the past few years I honestly have fewer and fewer use cases for them. Like I like the idea but more often than not there is something better for less money. You need something with GPIOs? Just get an Arduino clone for $2. Oh, you need Wifi as well? Get an ESP8266 or ESP32. You need something that allows you to run a full Linux distro but it does not have to have a ton of compute power? Get a Pi Zero. Those also do not need some fancy PSU etc so for $20 you will be golden. You want a TV box? Honestly, get a chrome cast. So, so much easier to use and also much cheaper. And for use cases that need more compute used PCs got so cheap and they are just vastly more powerful. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- sharath_babu · 2023-12-20 14:28 Amateur here, Why use proxmox rather than just one debian server ? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Digital_Voodoo · 2023-12-20 15:10 > More RAM is more important to have than more CPU Slowly coming to this conclusion too. Do you know if it applies to a specific kind of apps (video, image processing, etc.) or is it almost universal? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- defekT1312 · 2023-12-20 15:23 I have a separate NAS or I could upload it via duplicati to my cloud ---------------------------------------------------------------------- r3dk0w · 2023-12-20 15:30 Almost universal that more ram will be better in the long run. I'm running most of my services in a single container VM. The VM was fine running with like 2GB of ram until I installed NextCloud. NextCloud with a large number of pictures and video all the sudden wanted 8GB more of memory to run reasonably fast. Since it was running in a VM and the host had enough RAM, I was able to bump up the VM's RAM to 16GB without an issue and everything ran much more smoothly. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ro55mo · 2023-12-20 15:49 Both would be best. That's the 3-2-1. * Three copies of the data. * Two different types of storage media. * One copy offsite. You might not want to store large volumes of data offsite but it is perfect for configuration files and database backups. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- SkyeJM · 2023-12-20 15:54 Learn Docker and Docker compose. Took me a few hours to get my first containers running and understanding everything, now it's the best thing in my life. And document everything. If you have set something up using different tutorials and googling for solutions and errors and it works suddenly, try to understand why and document your process. If one day it breaks again, you're going to thank yourself. ​ If everything is running, start looking into backups for your selfhosted apps. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- NHarvey3DK · 2023-12-20 16:07 Once you learn LXCs, you’ll never go back lol ---------------------------------------------------------------------- sharath_babu · 2023-12-20 16:24 Isn't running full Linux VM for individual services a waste of resources? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I_Arman · 2023-12-20 16:43 The big one for me is that the server is secondary to the rest of your hardware. Buy a GOOD router, don't try to work within the sad confines of the cheap garbage router that came with your Internet service. Don't use OpenWRT, get something that works out of the box! Get a decent network switch with enough ports you don't have to daisy-chain everything. Don't use Wi-Fi for a server. Learn how to use Docker. Learn DNS, and nginx and/or Apache, and set up simple internal websites for yourself - it's a whole lot easier to go to https://media.intranet and click through to Jellyfin or Sonarr than it is to try to remember what IP and port a given service is on. Plus it's a good reminder of what services you actually *have*. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ChurchillsLlama · 2023-12-20 16:45 Nothing. The reason why this is so fun is you see what you don’t know and you go and learn it. You’re gaining super powers. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Patient-Tech · 2023-12-20 16:53 If you’re not doing anything super heavy duty and just some file sharing and rsync I used Pi’s for years. I even have Jellyfin running on a pi4. They’re super tiny and they sip power. If you want to serve a bit more than that, you should get something more powerful. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Anejey · 2023-12-20 17:26 Document *everything*. Every single config you change, every single setting you have to change to make something work.... Write it all down. Future you will thank you, and it'll save so much time in case something breaks, which also brings me to -> document any and all your fixes. Bookmarked web guides don't stay around forever. Seriously, I wish I had started doing this right from the start. The amount of times I had to re-google stuff for hours on and just because I forgot something... As for where to write it, I'd recommend something that's all markdown. DokuWiki is a good option, but either host it elsewhere or have a backup, otherwise it'll just be useless if you need it to fix your server... I actually moved away from server-hosted options and just got Obsidian, which just stores all locally. It's all then synced to my hosted Gitea. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Anejey · 2023-12-20 17:35 Yeah. I got my router virtualized on my main server, and it's pretty annoying having to do updates at midnight just to not disrupt internet usage. That being said, it's kinda hard to justify using an entire machine for just a router. Even and older mini PC can run a shitton more stuff, and something like rpi seems too flimsy, plus it wouldn't even run something like OPNsense. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- scoobydoobiedoodoo · 2023-12-20 17:38 Pi’s are great for learning how to cluster or serving small resource services. With the prices for a pi now, you’re better off getting a small form factor pc that can use an ssd instead of a pi with a special sd card for write functions. Getting a full blown server will cost more energy and will be louder. Learning containerization over virtualization Having space for a rack or considering a closet or cabinet Power consumption research for 24/7 availability VPN, remote access, headless administration SATA over SAS or vice versa Knowing you will always want to expand rather than plan for scalability based on your needs or learning new tech Environmental sensors Things I learn along the way or hindsight with any of the above. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- jerwong · 2023-12-20 17:40 I worked for an ISP that ran e-mail servers. Setting up the servers is easy. Getting the rest of the world to play nice with you is the frustrating part. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ally_Madrone · 2023-12-20 18:03 Any thoughts on using a [Zima Board](https://shop.zimaboard.com/products/zimaboard-single-board- server) and a couple of SSDs? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- beauhilton · 2023-12-20 18:22 \- agree w cheap old computer, good call. Govt surplus Dell 7050 for $30, max out ram, etc. \- I really, really like NixOS. a little more complicated to get going than Proxmox, but it has the advantage of being relatively self-documenting (some apps still only have imperative configuration, e.g. the \*arrs, so you are not saved entirely from the task of documentation). I don't know that I would go to it first, Proxmox and docker compose are a great combo, but keep an eye on [https://perfectmediaserver.com/02-tech- stack/nixos/](https://perfectmediaserver.com/02-tech-stack/nixos/), I'm sure KTZ will have a solid and full-featured beginner's guide before too long. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- aramisathei · 2023-12-20 18:24 I mean is it though? You can build a simple one for pretty cheap as a one-time expense. Network critical infrastructure is a fairly easy justification versus the first time the virtualized environment runs into NIC passthrough or performance issues (if not image corruption, etc.). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- GameKing505 · 2023-12-20 18:39 A minor one for me but I’d recommend starting off with a unique network subnet and not the default 192.168.1/24. When you’re accessing your homelab from elsewhere it’s nice to not have IP conflict. It’s much more of a pain in the ass to change later on when you’ve got 35 docker containers running than just doing it up front IMO. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- BillGoats · 2023-12-20 18:44 Why AMD? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Anejey · 2023-12-20 18:53 Build cheap enough and it ends up bulky and power hungry. I suppose it's my poorness talking, but I'd rather use the most of the machine if it has to be running 24/7. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ironicbadger · 2023-12-20 19:08 > NixOS > a little more complicated to get going than Proxmox by a little more you mean like, a vertical learning curve? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Specterhead · 2023-12-20 19:12 If you like to continuously tinker with your setup and have other people that also enjoy the services you host. (Think automations or media servers) Then get another box to test on while your main server stays online. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Sir-Kerwin · 2023-12-20 19:23 Look into thin clients. Meant to be used for remote desktop solutions but they have the perfect specs for a home router. A lot of them are sold preinstalled with opnsense/pfsense and with quad port nics or sfp ports ---------------------------------------------------------------------- FoolHooligan · 2023-12-20 19:28 That Unraid doesn't have the compose plugin of docker included and is based off of an obscure Linux distribution that most stuff doesn't have binaries for... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- defekT1312 · 2023-12-20 19:35 Sorry? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AwaywithCharles · 2023-12-20 19:37 I shouldn't have bought a Dell Poweredge R820.... It uses 2 1100 watt psu's and because I have 4 CPU's the 2nd shelf of the CPU's takes up the space for the K80's I wanted to put in it. To be fair for 4 4650 cpu's, 256gb ram, and the k80 it was only $300 and I can get my money back, it was a good learning experience. But I kind of still want to use it to maybe simulate a quantum computer or something. it just sucks because its so loud so I had to install new fans that I had to rewire to get it to work with dells proprietary stuff, then I had to change the fans on the psu's because they were also way to loud, now the fans don't go as fast as the initial ones so it doesn't stay as cool.... There are tradeoffs for everything. Really I didn't need it yet and should have just done a lot more research before I got it, saved for a little longer, and got something way more beefier for what my goals are. I also have an HP Elitedesk g3 800 mini that I run a bunch of services on, a protectli fw4b for pf sense, two zimaboards (1 as a nas), a synology nas, my main PC dual boots and I run ubuntu server on it when I want to use its GPU for machine learning stuff. I also have some pi's for other services, then a h110t mini itx board with a coral tpu in it for some other things. oh and I got some cheap cisco stuff I got off of facebook marketplace to practice CCNA things. do some research into infrastructure as code, it will save you a lot of time long ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Fire597 · 2023-12-20 19:48 Because there's much more thing in AMD than ARM. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- iScrtAznMan · 2023-12-20 19:55 Do LXCs fix the hardware performance tradeoffs with pass-through drives vs virtual drives (manage physical drives in proxmox)? Backing up VMs can become a pain if you do pass-through and I'm doing mergeFS/snapraid on the VM instead of proxmox b/c I don't like the idea of the host managing anything other than VMs b/c now I need to manage the proxmox environment. Do you pass your drives to the container for efficiency (do you still lose SMART) or do you manage storage on proxmox? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- FoolHooligan · 2023-12-20 19:55 I chose Unraid as my OS and have some regrets. It'll do, but I wish I had chosen something else. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- iScrtAznMan · 2023-12-20 19:57 Is this a good starting point to mess with ansible? https://ansible- nas.io/docs/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Fishermanz12 · 2023-12-20 19:57 +1 for this one, especially if you're planning on accessing your homelab through a VPN or something similar. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- BillGoats · 2023-12-20 19:59 Lol. There's much more thing? That doesn't answer anything. I'm running an Intel NUC with an 8th Gen i5 and I've yet to find something I want to do but can't. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- trisanachandler · 2023-12-20 19:59 The difference between data and configuration and why you shouldn't backup configurations directly, but instead be able to redeploy them. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- iScrtAznMan · 2023-12-20 20:08 Think about backups early and test your backup strategies before you need them or anything important is relying on it. Then document what worked. Make sure to check it every once in a while to make sure it still works (sometimes updates can break old strategies or your backup is missing/corrupted). Set a reminder on your calendar or something. Do not rely on manual backups. Automated cron job or scheduler and [healthcheck.io](https://healthcheck.io) to track status. Even if you don't ever have anything valuable on the system, it's nice to be able to recover the system quickly and painlessly so you can spend time focusing on actually fun stuff. The sooner you build your system around backups the less of a pain it is later. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- iScrtAznMan · 2023-12-20 20:11 Or jump off the deep end and setup OPNsense on a minipc. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- darksoulflame · 2023-12-20 20:14 This is a great question. I don’t understand running a bunch of Linux VMs per service. Why not just docker it? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- darksoulflame · 2023-12-20 20:15 Would love it if you shared a tutorial or some way to use proxmox otherwise it’s just a buzz word I keep hearing here. Why spin up a bunch of full Linux builds per service if you can just use a Linux instance with docker? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- borg286 · 2023-12-20 20:20 I own a domain and would like to use cloudflare's authentication tools for allowing certain users to access certain subdomains. But cloudflare does that allow listing based on the email domain. You recommend not self-hosting email. What are my options for using a service to handle that? Would it be something like Google workspace or something? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- kearkan · 2023-12-20 20:25 Definitely the last point, never just run commands and move on, take the time to learn what they actually do. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Croatwink · 2023-12-20 20:41 Less is more. When I started I had a huge Dell PowerEdge 1850 in my living room. It should have been named the cockblocker because I literally refused to turn it off once when I had a girl on my couch who asked if I ever turn it off. Now I've had all sorts of cool clusters on 3 low power and small Asus PN5x mini PCs, and a Synology with 2.5" disks. Of course those things didn't exist back then but I think I'd be just as fine with consumer grade PCs. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- LutheBeard · 2023-12-20 21:02 A lot of great tips here already, one simple one from me: Google it. Does not matter if it is an error message, some technology you would like to read up on or just random words that describe what you want to do. You may not always learn what you need right now, but you will learn something about it AND you will learn how to google ;) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ketilkn · 2023-12-20 21:03 https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2_OBreMn7FqZkvMYt6ATmgC0KAGGJNAN&s i=JJJcAOymMrrodBUg Jeff Geerling has a playlist of tutorials. If you go with him make sure you install the same version of ansible he was using. There may be breaking changes that are better to deal with once you are up and running. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- vdavide · 2023-12-20 21:04 that Is an ansible project with roles made with author's needs. I would start from the basics, the official ansible documentation Is very well made. Just search a hello World, plain playbook and then expand to your needs with the documentation. Just don't get into roles at first, It can be tricky if you don't already know ansible ---------------------------------------------------------------------- marcuspig · 2023-12-20 21:08 I can’t comment on the distribution and binaries but docker compose is in the CA store and a trivial installation. I’d argue that the UI can be useful if you’re truely new to all of it (as I was). I had cause to play around with compose last week and it was 5 minutes from hey I need that to, hey I’m using it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Cheeze_It · 2023-12-20 21:18 Better performance per watt, sometimes better performance, cheaper. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Cheeze_It · 2023-12-20 21:19 Because virtualization using Proxmox is easy mode. Real easy mode. Also, VMware sucks. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- literal_garbage_man · 2023-12-20 21:19 It’s hard. Because as with every “what do you wish you had known”, you won’t appreciate why Ansible is valuable as deeply until you’ve done it *without* whatever you wish you had learned first. Now you know what the other side looks like lol ---------------------------------------------------------------------- literal_garbage_man · 2023-12-20 21:21 I assume you use a 10.x or a 176.x? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- defekT1312 · 2023-12-20 21:22 So it's not always about the size? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- defekT1312 · 2023-12-20 21:23 🤯 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mildly_Excited · 2023-12-20 21:23 Running ECC memory would be one if I remember correctly, I think only AMD allows you to use them in consumer boards. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- beeyev · 2023-12-20 21:28 Use ESXI, don't use proxmox ---------------------------------------------------------------------- GameKing505 · 2023-12-20 21:28 Anything that’s not a default for so many devices is good. 10.x is easier to type I guess. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- defekT1312 · 2023-12-20 21:30 Why? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Fire597 · 2023-12-20 21:31 Wait I think we've got a misunderstanding. I'm talking about the processor architecture, not brands. It's either ARM or AMD. Intel is AMD. So yeah you won't find things you can't run. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Fire597 · 2023-12-20 21:34 Maybe I didn't use the right term ? I'll gladly take any knowledge. Should I say x86 processor ? Idk always thought it was either AMD or ARM. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- TheQuantumPhysicist · 2023-12-20 21:37 I've been running my email server for over a decade for me and my family with Postfix + dovecot. I did once a mistake due to docker proxying. That + spam I receive are the only issues I ever faced. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- listur65 · 2023-12-20 21:48 Intel is not AMD. AMD and Intel both manufacture x86 CPU's so x86 would be the correct term for what you were referring to. I also believe AMD is making an ARM processor now as well. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- BillGoats · 2023-12-20 21:49 To my best knowledge, AMD is just a brand. I did a little research because I'm not too sure of these things either, but my understanding is that both AMD and Intel produce x86 CPUs. ARM is commonly found in mobile devices, embedded systems and single board computers. ARM is a reduced instruction set computing (RISC) architecture, designed for efficiency and power savings in smaller devices. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Dirty_Jimm · 2023-12-20 21:54 NTFS is not very friendly outside Windows. Bit hard to shift 32TB, format, shift back ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Accomplished-Lack721 · 2023-12-20 21:54 AMD is fine, but often an Intel processor with an iGPU will be better for things like transcoding. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- defekT1312 · 2023-12-20 21:55 Who the fuck use NTFS anyway? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Jonteponte71 · 2023-12-20 21:56 If you don’t need a lot of disk to start with, buy an old enterprise minipc on ebay and start there. Like an HP Elitedesk 800 mini. If you need to add 3.5 inch hd’s upgrade to the SFF version of the same machine with drive bays and pci slots. You can get both with an ssd and memory for under $100. If you have the skills for it, install Proxmox and go from there. I am going in this direction but started on my NAS which has worked fine. But I now want to separate file services from my docker host and let docker containers run on storage that is silent (ssd’s). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Dirty_Jimm · 2023-12-20 21:56 Ahhh where were you 4 years ago ---------------------------------------------------------------------- defekT1312 · 2023-12-20 21:58 🥹👉👈 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- neozahikel · 2023-12-20 22:10 I think that I get what's your confusion come from, on Linux the 64bit version of the x86 platform is often referenced as amd64 because they were the first to present it (they invented it) and when Intel then copied it (under a different name), the name remained for both as it was basically the same thing and nobody wanted to make the effort of changing everything. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- vdavide · 2023-12-20 22:11 absolutely, doing things manually is never a bad thing but neither is having a perfectly replicable setup in minutes lol ---------------------------------------------------------------------- shortorbluff · 2023-12-20 22:12 Just two things: - the more you fuck up - the more you learn - always fuck up on the test machine ---------------------------------------------------------------------- purepersistence · 2023-12-20 22:18 Networking 101. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- purepersistence · 2023-12-20 22:22 Networking 101. When I first started, I was doing a passthru from my AT&T modem to my Synology NAS which got assigned my public WIFI address. So much to learn. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Fire597 · 2023-12-20 22:27 Oooh ok yeah that was what I was refering to. Thank you for your help. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- TheVirus32 · 2023-12-20 22:27 1. That proxmox is a thing despite its limitations 2. RAID levels and their importance 3. Always having one virtual machine managing the proxies 4. Home assistant runs flawlessly on proxmox, no more sacrificial SD cards while retaining the Google drive backups 5. Docker and portainer is merely one piece of software in your arsenal. Tons of options that you can run for almost nothing in terms of resources using all of the technologies 6. The cost efficiency of running everything on a single "server" in Europe where thanks to the "oh so mysterious" gazoduct destruction from Russia to Germany caused one hell of a hike in prices for electricity. 7. Having your own matrix synapse in order to ditch WhatsApp for friends and family because you are becoming more and more tired of big companies using your data. 8. How no chip manufacturer cares about making a very low TDP chip - resulting in laptop CPUs being the most power effective options and forcing you to buy large cases, drill holes and buy adapters that you never even knew existed 9. Tailscale often saves the day when issues occur while you are away 10. Understanding that gigabit eth is, if you are currently building a rig, not a good option for a server as some of your projects like mine can pull heavy feeds from the local network 24/7 11. NAS are amazing if done right 12. Raspberry PIs are limiting because of their architecture, but make for great endpoints and reliable backup tunnels. I still love my pis and none goes unused 13. The zigbee protocol for home automation. It isn't as fast as I wish it could be (12 bulbs on RGB struggle to switch colours every 750ms), but not relying on a server is Great because even if the internet is down it doesn't give a f. 14. Esp32 dev boards are your friends for homemade sensors and gadgets. 15. Always have your toys network in a subnet if shared with a critical infra paired with port redirection. This way if you get hacked or whatever, only you get affected. 16. Backups backups backups. 17. Notifications on any service going down goes a long way if you do not have the means of replication because you are poor like me 18. WoL and shutdown scripts make your life easier 19. Dynu is a great domain provider if your ip is dynamic ---------------------------------------------------------------------- purepersistence · 2023-12-20 22:28 >Setting up something isn't that hard. Maintaining it, is. I love having Uptime Kuma to make sure stuff keeps working or more importantly let me know when I break it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- henry_tennenbaum · 2023-12-20 22:31 Not a proxmox user myself, but people usually run only a few vms that might in turn run docker. Or they have their services in lxc containers. The benefit you get is the ability to take whole snapshots of your whole setup and back those up. Should there be some boot issue, you still can access your proxmox gui remotely. Makes using things like a homeassistant vm easier as well I suppose. Pesonally I started on a headless raspberry pi and feel comfortable managing everything via the command line. I haven't had any really reason to use VMs yet, but I don't see why I wouldn't do that via the cli as well. Regarding potential boot issues, I've moved to NixOS a while ago and feel pretty confident in that setup. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- henry_tennenbaum · 2023-12-20 22:35 Are using something like virsh to manage your VMs? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- henry_tennenbaum · 2023-12-20 22:38 Great advice. That's one reason why NixOS got its teeth into me recently. It felt like a slog at first, but when I had to suddenly set up a non- NixOS machine again, it really drove home how much little, undocumented changes go with that, even with backed up dotfiles. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- henry_tennenbaum · 2023-12-20 22:41 Some of us are into rock climbing and the view is beautiful from the top. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AK1174 · 2023-12-20 22:43 I wish I had known the importance of backups. Back when I started I was really new to everything. Just started out in software development, and I had limited experience with Linux. It’s really easy to make a fatal mistake, and it cost me my data more than once. Mostly non essential, but it took a long time to get up and running. Now, I have a robust server system with sufficient redundancy. It just feels like it took forever to reach this point. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- FoolHooligan · 2023-12-20 22:45 I use Portainer, but I wish I didn't have to use a UI to utilize docker compose. I wish I could just use the command line on the bare metal. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- SalvatoreParadise · 2023-12-20 23:02 Document your steps.... Nothing worse than breaking it and not being able to get it back. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- beauhilton · 2023-12-20 23:03 Ha, if you're going for the mecca NixOS setup (delete your darlings, flakes, Nix-ified everything) I don't disagree, cue the vi/emacs learning curve jpg In that case the NixOS learning curve might start off as vi and turn into emacs, vertical line and then a spiral of insanity Rly tho, basic homelab stuff isn't bad. Once I decided I wasn't going to be a total purist and gradually work into it, things started jiving pretty quickly (I'm still using more docker than Nix-native apps, but all the containers I am using are declared in .nix files and deployed w osi-containers) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- BrothasOnline · 2023-12-20 23:08 The NUC has been a great addition. I currently run Home Assistant, PFsense, & Debian (CasaOS, Docker) which works great and is a key piece to my system. \-Never tried to host email, always use a VPS or Dedicated(remote). \-Definitely need to do a overview of docker-compose. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- violet-crayola · 2023-12-20 23:35 Intel got stuck in tech process 7 years ago and never recovered, the cannot compete with anm on perf per watt ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Castcore · 2023-12-20 23:47 I'll go one further and say ChatGPT it. ChatGPT is so bloody amazing for resolving error messages or even just describing what you're trying to do, what you expect to happen, and what is actually happening. 9/10 times it gets it right on the first go. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- wa_00 · 2023-12-20 23:55 I had my vps running a couple of apps with only a good nginx configuration and everything works flawlessly, I always stayed away from docker. Since the beginning I had a weird instinct to avoid any docker-based tutorials. I know about containers basically help to separate your apps and take advantage of your resources in a more regulated method, but my first (current) ignorant impression that it's just an overrated fancy layer/bloat on top of your vps. Am I missing anything? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Downtown_Series9505 · 2023-12-20 23:57 Working in an enterprise. I have zero interest in deploying Windows, servers or even dealing with a hypervisor. I've had a lot of interest in the home lab focusing on docker and the capabilities of what it can do over dedicated server instances with proxmox ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Big_Razzmatazz4365 · 2023-12-21 00:09 Help me. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- fy_pool_day · 2023-12-21 00:25 Ansible ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Glass-Manufacturer99 · 2023-12-21 00:28 I have same questions. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Absentmindedgenius · 2023-12-21 01:42 I have old PCs handling NAS and Jellyfin, but most of my services are on pi's now. My router is even a rpi4. They don't even need cooling fans. I had to replace 2 140mm fans a couple months ago on one of my NAS, and those things are not cheap. They were probably 5 years old though. They run at a few watts vs. my NAS at 50W. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AnonymusChief · 2023-12-21 02:15 Electricity is expensive, and servers are noisy. You might get used to the noise, but your family will not. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Jazkyr · 2023-12-21 02:46 Yes, to put it simply, containers are convenient, easy to manage/add/delete and avoid a lot of dependency conflicts that you would run into otherwise. Every container can have its own dependencies which won't impact or conflict with a different app in any other container. More importantly... it just works. You define your container, define all the dependencies, and no matter what (for the most part), it'll work no matter what you're using. No more "well, it works on my machine" crap to deal with. It also makes it easy for other containers to communicate with each other. Have a VPN that you want some of your apps to use as their network? You can very easily do that. I can go on and on, but they provide so much out of the box flexibility with minimal headache that it's hard to imagine NOT using docker now. I'd honestly quit self hosting (well, not really, but you get the point, lol). But if you're hosting a couple of apps as you said, then there's not much difference between native or docker. But when you have a lot of apps, you begin to see the benefit. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- r3dk0w · 2023-12-21 03:22 Proxmox ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Jubs300 · 2023-12-21 03:42 Consumer gear doesn't have enough enough PCIe lanes. You'll find out really quickly that even though you might have a x16, x8 or x4, it may only run on x8, x4 and x1. You'll also find that some pcie lanes get disabled if you have all your sata connections filled, or you'll find that some of your sata ports get disabled if you have certain pcie lanes filled. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- meni04 · 2023-12-21 03:57 Programatic configuration is awesome, but I honestly had a hard time with ansible. You have to learn a DSL + you miss direct contact with your system which is often the best way to learn from it. Today I simple use python scripts to handle configuration, it is also something you surely take to life. When ssh is needed I use the fabric library and when I want a easier management of an application, say the package manager, I use pyinfra which btw has a much better ssh controller than ansible. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- meni04 · 2023-12-21 03:59 Not sure is a must have, but cloudflare tunnels made half the way on self hosting applications ---------------------------------------------------------------------- mona-lisa-octo-cat · 2023-12-21 04:38 * Use Linux if you know how to. It’ll save you a lot of headaches if you plan on using containers to run your services. (You probably should, it’s a lot simpler than native installs to back up/set up/etc) * I prefer JBOD over raid (I use mergerfs for this). It makes it so easy to just add more drives. * I like using a immutable Linux distro as a base for a server (Like Fedora Silverblue/Kinoite). Easy rollbacks if a system update breaks something. Everything is in containers for me anyway, so I don’t need to modify the base image except to add docker and mergerfs. As for essential services, for me that’d be: * Plex/Jellyfin for movies/TV * Komga for comics/manga/ebooks * Mylar for comics management * Wallabag for a pocket read-it-later replacement * Portainer to manage docker stacks + containers (+ backup of that config) * diun for docker image notifications ---------------------------------------------------------------------- BeYeCursed100Fold · 2023-12-21 06:18 They were referring to amd64, which is the 64-bit instruction set AMD created and licensed to Intel. Prior to that, Intel was 32-bit only. I prefer x86_64 nomenclature, but Debian and others use amd64 to denote the 64+bit instruction set used on the processor. It isn't Intel64 for good reason. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- BeYeCursed100Fold · 2023-12-21 06:24 You will find different answers by different people. Self-hosting email is easy, ensuring delivery and receipt is difficult. Your email server is rarely the issue if properly configured, it is Microsoft and Google and Apple not letting your home IP address with low positive reputation send emails to their users - they literally block your emails. Time and patience and many emails or contact forms may cure the issues, but it is not a set it and forget endeavor. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- BillGoats · 2023-12-21 06:38 Thanks for clarifying. It is indeed confusing! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- HaussingHippo · 2023-12-21 06:44 I’ve been looking into getting a thin client for this exact reason, and recommendations on loading one up with opnsense and some easy leads to follow from there? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- BeYeCursed100Fold · 2023-12-21 06:44 Np. It is confusing, but I was a young adult during that transition (and well aware of the 8-bit to 16-bit transition too...NES to Super Nintendo! and later to Nintendo 64). Good luck and I wish you many bit upgrades! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- vdavide · 2023-12-21 06:55 you should use whatever fits your needs, as i said before. I use ansible only because, for my little knowledge, has a faster learning curve and it's well documented ---------------------------------------------------------------------- SkyeJM · 2023-12-21 07:01 Exactly what the other guy said. I started with Radarr, Plex and a torrent app. Then i added Sonar, Prowlarr, Overseerr,… and a bunch of others. When i moved everything to a new NAS i was having troubles to get it running again. So that’s the point i decided to learn Docker, and honestly when it is a few apps you’re fine. But now i’m using a lot of containers (apps) so it’s way easier like this. Also migrating is just copying the compose file and hit start ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Sir-Kerwin · 2023-12-21 07:26 I’ve heard good things about the HP T620 plus, which allows for an NIC upgrade. You see many of these pretty much set up for pfsense on eBay, tho they are on the more expensive side. After you get pfsense/opnsense installed, it’s just a matter of assigning interfaces. WAN towards your ISP, LAN towards your local network, and any extra interfaces to any extra subnets you might wanna set up for labbing. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- YankeeNoodleDaddy · 2023-12-21 07:30 What are mini PCs I can look for cheaply on Facebook marketplace that you recommend? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- xSean93 · 2023-12-21 08:14 >Keep in mind that everything you're doing now, you'll probably have to do it again later. Documente everything, backup what you need. Ok, you got me. I'll set up a wiki over the holidays. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Aramaki87 · 2023-12-21 09:25 - Pi only when you need GPIO. But maybe even an ESP32 is a better choice. - Don‘t containerize you NAS. Us it as a NAS!!! - Cheap even 3 year old NUCs and Proxmox ❤️ - Pfsense, HaProxy, pfblocker-NG. - Home Assistant ---------------------------------------------------------------------- g10str4 · 2023-12-21 09:37 Should have bought bigger nas drives... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- kavee9 · 2023-12-21 10:12 DOCUMENT SHIT!! You may be able to pull some amazing things out by finding things out, going through countless forums and tutorials, but keep in mind you might need to configure these things once again in the future. So document how you did it so you don't have to start all over again if and when something goes south. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AnomalyNexus · 2023-12-21 12:35 I'd suggest some form of progression. Starting with a simple ubuntu install, then docker, then virtualization (proxmox). People recommend proxmox and that is the right answer, but not necessarily the right learning starting point imo. Also...don't open ports to the wider internet if you can help it. At least not until you're pretty confident you know what's going on ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Sp33dFr34k85 · 2023-12-21 12:36 How addictive selfhosting is, even though it wouldn't have stopped me from doing it 😄 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- coff33ninja · 2023-12-21 13:43 Ssl for internal network sucks on Firefox 😢 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- workingreddit0r · 2023-12-21 14:01 >I’ve wasted so much time and effort migrating all of docker/ media from one array to another only to realise that I need to do the same again when I get another HDD and be in the wrong config to add it JBOD indeed. This is why I ended up on Unraid! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AnonymousDestinyno14 · 2023-12-21 14:01 You shouldn't delete python form a running server, at any cost, spent 5 days to fix the server, I know a noob mis, I was a noob at that time either ways. Btw must use a dns, firewall and storage service helps a lot in day to day life, and can also teach you a lot about running services and servers in general. Anyways Good luck on your journey ---------------------------------------------------------------------- IllegalIce · 2023-12-21 17:43 Second the document everything, I started this after my third reconfigure. Has saved me an unbelievable amount of time now. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- HVM24 · 2023-12-21 18:41 That is going to be expensive :) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Synlis · 2023-12-22 15:13 Why wouldn't you containerize your NAS? Teaches you plenty of stuff about docker, which is always useful, for a slight overhead. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- oaf357 · 2023-12-22 17:08 I don’t need a 2U server. Just a NAS. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Squeed_Lol · 2023-12-22 19:44 yeah personality is more important ---------------------------------------------------------------------- haaiiychii · 2023-12-22 20:19 What benefit is there to use Proxmox when everything I run is in docker? I've never felt like I needed a VM, and docker backups are already super easy. Genuinely curious as everyone seems to love it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- lensman3a · 2023-12-22 21:34 Very good advice. I learned about 1990 that having a lot of aliases in my config file was a waste time moving them to multiple machines. Now I rely on muscle memory for all shell commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- lensman3a · 2023-12-22 21:36 I would add learn IPv6. Steep learning curve but it is nice to have 2 raised to the 64 powered IP addresses. It is the future. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- lensman3a · 2023-12-22 21:39 I have a -/howto directory with a lot of text howto with a very descriptive file name. And grep works well with text lookups. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 10m- · 2023-12-23 07:20 Thanks so much everyone, this thread is v helpful~ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AndyMarden · 2023-12-23 11:24 Proxmox has been great to set up services independently and not tie everything together and it's pretty easy to get to grips with (given the scope of what it is) - I have stuffed installed in lxcs, vms, docker in vms and docker in lxcs. Some things with noting if I was talking to myself a couple of months ago: - NAS software (eg openmediavault) adds no value and eventually I ditched it for just setting it up on an ubuntu vm. It actually obfuscated things and restricted me. - Zabbix might be feature rich but it's so legacy and a complete pain in the arse - just about to go with prometheus etc - Authentik for SSO is good and nginx as reverse proxy - Similar to NAS software, Nginx Proxy Manager was ditched in favour of native nginx - as soon as you want to do something "unusual" that extra layer causes more problems than it solves - Getting a domain with Cloudflare is worth it for external access and a nice domain name. You get the 15 year SSL cert and you only pay for the purchase of the domain. - SSL is a total pain in the arse on internal networks esp since Chrome will not accept self signed CV ets any more so I stopped fighting and used http on LAN for now but will address in future. Why Google need to make those decisions for me, I don't know. - Obsidian as an Evernote replacement is awesome with the self hosed livesync plugin to couchdb. - Vaultwarden the same as a password vault - Only expose services to the internet that you have to and always via the reverse proxy It will take time and you will learn a lot. Be prepared for this. And setup backups from the start (I haven't yet and I am nervous). But you will enjoy it especially if you focus on stuff that others in the family benefit from. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- arnemcnuggets · 2023-12-23 13:37 that raspberries kinda suck ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Laicbeias · 2023-12-23 20:21 im running an odroid hc4 since two weeks. nas in raid1, a rust api server with redis and docker builder so i dont need it on my work pc. system backup system. it can do pretty much anything. rust servers with redis so insanely performant that you could self host a medium sized api from home. at 6 watt it is pretty good. arm is better than x86 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- mosaic_hops · 2023-12-24 15:10 ? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Unlucky-Bunch-7389 · 2023-12-24 17:06 I’ve gone completely away from proxmox… one giant resource heavy server with docker is all you need ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Unlucky-Bunch-7389 · 2023-12-24 17:08 This is why I docker w/ docker compose. IaC is the only way to do it. The documentation is the code ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Cheeze_It · 2023-12-24 17:56 Not everything is containerized... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Watever444 · 2023-12-25 03:59 Something well known and used by many with a lot of options. .i started with OpenVault a few years ago when it was still emerging with really old hardware. Was working but soon needed more, then moved to other hardware with Debian base. Was working but harder with lots of tweaks and difficulty with some container or pod. Then I went with Unraid and it's working good for a long time even if sometimes there are hard times with bugs in some containers. But you eventually figure it out. What's difficult is to do the switch. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- fuken33 · 2023-12-25 12:08 First and foremost, fuck around and find out. The more you fuck around the more you find out. Also, be prepared to rebuild your whole system from a clean installation. Have your config files located, have your data separated from your main server drive. It's better when apps and services are isolated from one another with virtualization / docker. Look behind the scenes, try to know what is happening and how everything is connected and you won't need anything else