Just lost my whole dockerized *arr and jellyfin setup reddit / selfhosted ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AreYouEvenReal2 · 2023-12-10 21:15 i was told using docker compose would make my setup portable. Tried running it on a different linux OS and now all the configuration has been overwritten. I wanna cry. Git didn't work for saving my setup, so I never got onto git so I can't restore it. I want to cry. How do you make a setup that's actually portable? Is that even possible? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- preclowski · 2023-12-10 21:23 Step one - learn from professional resources, you should be able to understand basic concepts in first year Step two - repeat step one ---------------------------------------------------------------------- clintkev251 · 2023-12-10 21:24 Well how did you try to move it? Docker compose holds the definition of the containers, but you still need to move the actually appdata itself. What happened to that? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- APIeverything · 2023-12-10 21:38 What do you mean by portable? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- MisterBazz · 2023-12-10 21:44 >i was told using docker compose would make my setup portable No, it makes the *code* portable, not your container. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- FunctionTypical9452 · 2023-12-10 21:58 The data that the Docker containers wrote, either to Docker volumes or directly onto your file system depending on how you configured it, is still on the original machine as long as you did not wipe it. You can just move those files/volumes. And when moving things from one machine to another, never delete stuff. Always copy and then when you are sure the new system works after some length of time (days, weeks, etc.) you can delete the original. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- secopsx · 2023-12-10 22:10 docker compose just makes your actual "docker" container setup semi- automated...the next step is "ansible" for configuration as code, automating updates, bash scripts, etc.. Can you SFTP or SSH into the old server and grab the appdata and restore it to your new linux server? Probably a good idea to back those up periodically. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- EndlessHiway · 2023-12-10 22:11 lol ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AreYouEvenReal2 · 2023-12-10 22:21 I moved the app data. The containers overwrote/corrupted it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AreYouEvenReal2 · 2023-12-10 22:22 I did move those folders though. it overwrote them on the new system. I don't have unlimited computers so I can't just copy to a new system and keep the old one. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AreYouEvenReal2 · 2023-12-10 22:27 Most servarr setups aren't using ansible. I don't even think ansible is applicable here, it's for automating business setups, not piracy setups. Do they have a module for configuring usenet clients and PVRs? The config files are passed to the host and moved between machines is how the resources said to set it up. That clearly didn't work here. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- clintkev251 · 2023-12-10 22:27 That really doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. If you have all of your paths correctly configured there shouldn't be any issue moving between systems, and things should start right up like nothing happened. But also an important aspect of any migration like this is ensuring you have a backup. So a learning experience for you regardless ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AreYouEvenReal2 · 2023-12-10 22:32 I tried to back this shit up to git. It dosen't work! I couldn't even make a .zip file on the original system (windows), I am guessing because the file names are too long and constantly in use. It might have to with using podman maybe rather than OG docker. I have managed to get moby-engine running on the new platform so that might have been better. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- secopsx · 2023-12-10 22:32 I have my entire setup automated with ansible...obviously you'll need to go in and configure the api keys, etc once its up and running. My ansible playbook runs over 200 tasks to deploy all \*aRR, linkwarden, kasm, syncthing, usenet apps, unpackerr, kuma, watchtower, apache-guac, filebrowser, duplicati, flaresolverr, a grafana monitoring dashboard, traefik, overseerr, organizr dash, plex, tdarr, passes through gpu for tdarr remuxing, plex transcoding, etc etc. It's been \~3-4 weeks in process. Still need to convert a lot of hardcoded api keys to vars and some other tidying up and then will release to the public on github probably. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- clintkev251 · 2023-12-10 22:35 Git is not a backup system, it's a version control system. If you want to keep your compose files tracked in a git repo, that's great. If you need to backup large files like databases, git is the wrong tool for that job ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AreYouEvenReal2 · 2023-12-10 22:36 So if the ansible script is not configurating the applications, then what's the point? When the portable system worked (it worked on other linux and windows systems other than the current one) I didn't have to re-enter any API keys or configuration settings. It just worked. It sounds to me like using ansible is causing you to setup more stuff manually, not less. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AreYouEvenReal2 · 2023-12-10 22:37 My guy I understand how docker compose works. I moved the configuration folders which are mapped to the host as it says in all the guides. My guess is trying to use podman broke it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- secopsx · 2023-12-10 22:38 you run backups from within the apps, and additionally you backup the appdata using syncthing, duplicati, etc to a public cloud provider such as proton drive, google drive. you run the ansible playbook, its all setup...then you restore the data and it all works. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AreYouEvenReal2 · 2023-12-10 22:38 It wouldn't save even into a zip file. How am I supposed to make this work? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Vogete · 2023-12-10 22:38 What? Ansible can configure anything, there is no "it's for business setups". Ansible configures my *arr stack, Jellyfin/Plex, samba shares, DNS (including custom records), home Assistant, gitea, and nextcloud. Every config file and Ansible playbook is in git. Ansible isn't required for all this, it just makes sure I can easily configure stuff. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- from-nibly · 2023-12-10 22:40 What do you mean by corrupted? And did you pin your versions or did you use :latest? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- jbutlerdev · 2023-12-10 22:40 Backup. Backup. Backup ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AreYouEvenReal2 · 2023-12-10 22:42 So it has modules for \*arr apps? I had no idea. I don't really use ansible as it's yet another tool to use. I am not getting paid for this, if I was it would be a priority. Heck I am not getting paid full stop because the tech industry is hopeless for graduates in the UK. I have used puppet before though. Maybe they have something for this. It sounds very complex though instead of just moving you're config files. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- clintkev251 · 2023-12-10 22:42 As far as making a zip I can't help you much because I don't know anything about the nature of the failure. At the very least you should have your containers stopped to ensure data consistency. There are also lots of great automated backup solutions out there that you can research ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AreYouEvenReal2 · 2023-12-10 22:44 I already know basic docker concepts. What resources are you talking about? I passed through the config folders just fine. I even got it running on a different setup to the original - twice even! It messed up trying to use podman or maybe moby-engine as the new system doesn't come with docker-ce in it's repos. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AreYouEvenReal2 · 2023-12-10 22:47 I don't have a dedicated server though. Maybe I should dust off my old server. I've never had much luck with backup or backup servers outside of cloud services. I once actually nearly lost some data because a NAS I was using got hacked, and was synced to my cloud account. 3-2-1 is probably the way to go but I don't where I am gonna keep all these servers. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- clintkev251 · 2023-12-10 22:51 You don't need a dedicated server. Plenty of cloud services where you can store your backups at very low cost. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Vogete · 2023-12-10 22:54 It doesn't have modules for the *arr apps but it doesn't need one. So what I do with Ansible for these is create the necessary folders (if not exists), deploy docker compose and config files to the target folder, make sure permissions are good to go, and run the docker compose stack. The data I don't restore from Ansible because it's multiple TBs. But if I wanted to, I could do some file system checks to run a data restore using Ansible as well. Realistically you're just moving files and folders left and right. That doesn't need anything special from Ansible. All config files (human readable) are stored in git, so I have a backup and version control as well. Of course once the arr apps are running, I need to change their config from the UI, and that's why the sqlite database needs to be backed up as well. I've successfully redeployed the entire arr stack recently when I migrated some data around onto a new zfs pool. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- secopsx · 2023-12-10 22:55 >I am not getting paid for this, if I was it would be a priority wrong mindset to have, treat it as a learning experience and you'll feel better about it. I spend countless unpaid hours "learning" for my work. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AreYouEvenReal2 · 2023-12-10 22:58 I have maybe 20 Mbps upload at the moment. Even where I lived before I had maybe 50 Mbps. Uploading large files is not a practical option if I like having any sanity (from the small amount I have left). I keep essential stuff on OneDrive and the like, or at least I try to lmao. If I could easily sort data into stuff that's essential and non- essential it might be practical, but I am really bad at organizing things, and modern IDEs and dev environments aren't helpful in this regard (big replaceable files next to small essential ones). At least for real projects there is git. How expensive are these services? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Simplixt · 2023-12-10 23:01 *"overwrote it or corrupted it somehow"* Please elaborate, what exactly was changed? As you mentioned "you tried Podman", there might be a problem with the user namespace / file rights. However*: "i was told using docker compose would make my setup portable"* Your setup (in combination with the persistent files) is portable. However you must know what you are doing. And always keep versioned backups ... and not backups you are overwriting ... So no reason to blame docker, just see it as valuable learning for the future ;) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ptjunkie · 2023-12-10 23:02 You delete the old one after the new one works ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AreYouEvenReal2 · 2023-12-10 23:02 I suppose I still have the media at least. It's not all bad. Maybe I can take this as a sign I should learn something more modern like podman or kubernetes? I have been thinking of learning k8s for a while now, but I found docker quite difficult to learn so I am not sure how I would get on. The way some of these things work hurts my head tbh. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- timotheus95 · 2023-12-10 23:03 It might have been a permissions problem. The software can't read the existing config and overwrites it with the default. Still bad software design, but certainly plausible. IMHO permissions is the hardest part of docker. Especially if you don't run it as root. I try to move away from config files as much as possible. Software like Traefik and Homepage can be almost completely configured by docker labels. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AreYouEvenReal2 · 2023-12-10 23:05 I used latest. Should I not have? I thought you always wanted the latest version of stuff? I think it has to do with switching from docker to podman perhaps. There is a lot of stuff I don't fully understand I don't think it's possible to really understand all these things because there are just too many, even after years I bareley scratch the surface of how these new technologies really operate. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- clintkev251 · 2023-12-10 23:06 That's plenty of upload for just backing up appdata. These files are not really that large in the scheme of things. Looking at mine, my Sonarr instance is using under 1 GB, same with Radarr, Overseer is at 1.5 GB. Plex is huge at 74 GB because I generate preview thumbnails, but in Jellyfin where I don't it's only 15 GB. You could easily back that up with your upload even. As far as cost, I have about 3.5 TB stored in Backblaze and it costs me about $20 a month. You'd be storing significantly less than that. And like everything, it can be done cheaper, it can be more expensive, just depending on your needs ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Vogete · 2023-12-10 23:08 I am also a bit limited in that sense. My arr stack realistically doesn't need backup because I can just download it again. At least I accepted that a single local backup is enough for that part. If I lose it, it's not a big deal. Annoying, but I won't cry. My very important data is backed up 3-2-1. 1 actual data, 1 on the same zfs pool using Restic incremental snapshots, and 1 going to Backblaze B2. Currently storing 2.5TB there. That I want to change soon. I am buying my parents a DIY NAS, put TrueNAS Scale on it for them, and that's going to be my off-site backup (connection is solved by Tailscale). Git is only used for human readable data. If you don't open the file in a text editor to read the content of it, don't store it in git. I suggest you look into some backup tools (Borg, Restic, Duplicati, Duplicity, etc), and just back up data for now on the same machine. Even a local snapshot will be enough to save your data in a lot of cases. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Cirx0808 · 2023-12-10 23:09 There's so many things here that need more details. What are you using Git for exactly? I would assume to just version control your compose file right? But not the data as Git shouldn't be used for backups. When you say you bind /config to a host drive what do you mean by that? I have to assume either you bind to a host path and cloned your backup to this path or you bound a network share to a path on your machine and then bound your containers /config to that path? Without somehow cloning the data to the new /config path it won't be there so the container will rebuild a new version. If it is there it will re- use it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AreYouEvenReal2 · 2023-12-10 23:10 Redhat/fedora don't seem to like docker for some reason, neither do immutable distros. I heard using podman was the best course. I guess I was wrong. I don't really understand how these permissions systems work you are correct because they are a bit beyond the traditional unix model I understand. I don't really know why these things need to be this complex. Maybe I should have said containerized. I had been told the podman was basically a drop in replacement minus the needing a root level demon part. I guess it isn't quite that compatible. I think maybe this is all beyond my paygrade. Convential linux servers were much easier to wrap my brain around, even LXC was fairly understandable as it works more or less like a linux VM but more lightweight. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- clintkev251 · 2023-12-10 23:10 Kubernetes is awesome.... but.... it's several orders of magnitude more difficult than docker. My backup solution for Kubernetes is probably 1500 lines of config on it's own. I'd recommend on nailing the basics of docker before moving to k8s. And Podman isn't going to be that different than docker. It's just a different engine. The majority of the concepts and foundations are the exact same as docker ---------------------------------------------------------------------- FunctionTypical9452 · 2023-12-10 23:15 Are you here to complain or actually understand the problem? You cannot say you know how Docker compose works if you have made several key mistakes along the way which resulted in data loss. Do not guess why mistakes happened. You need to understand the cause of the issue and then root cause and then make changes to ensure it doesn't happen in the future. Regather yourself, come back with a fresh mindset, analyze the situation objectively, and try to see if you can recover any lost data along the way. Everyone makes mistakes. I think people are downvoting you because you are not approaching this with a learning mindset, you are trying to shift the blame to the programs. If you approach this with an open mind and start asking questions instead of guessing you can learn a lot. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- FunctionTypical9452 · 2023-12-10 23:18 There's no need to discuss the pros/cons of Ansible in this situation. This is not about automation or configs. This is about not properly understanding the tools that are in use. Adding another layer of complexity does not solve the problem. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AK1174 · 2023-12-10 23:29 skill issue. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AreYouEvenReal2 · 2023-12-10 23:37 I am gonna be honest I wanted to complain and figure out what actually happened later. Or just avoid tools like podman until I understand them better. The issue here is for once I want things to actually work rather than spending another 20 hours researching on top of the countless ones I have already done. I've already invested many years of my life into learning computer related stuff, to the point where most people (even some other computer people) are in awe. Maybe not with docker but with other Linux things for example - lots of programmers don't know basic Linux commands surprisingly. Many can't assemble a tower PC from parts. The thing is no matter how much I learn there is always more to learn. It's like you master one thing and then have to start over with another and look like an ass doing it. It's like a never ending treadmill where you are constantly behind no matter how fast you run. If I got paid maybe I could tolerate this, but it's basically impossible to get a job as a graduate even with a masters degree like I have. Part of me never wants to touch a computer again. Maybe after all these years tech isn't actually what I am made for. Sorry for the rant. My life isn't going well and neither is my tech. At least I can bake things that taste good. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AreYouEvenReal2 · 2023-12-10 23:38 Yeah probably. Not really sure what to do about that. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- fossilsforall · 2023-12-10 23:53 I did the same thing with Nextcloud. Your data isn't gone, you can look up a Linux data recovery tool and get it all back. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- fossilsforall · 2023-12-10 23:56 Basically if I understand you correctly, you tried to set everything up and mounted your drive in the install process. This essentially replaced all of your data in that folder. But that data wasn't shredded and gone, just do a recovery tool and you'll have it all back. You'll need to do some cleanup for the names and stuff, but it's still there. Then just do what you were doing before, and move the data manually to the right location. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- FunctionTypical9452 · 2023-12-10 23:57 You're doing fine man. There are always ups and downs with hobbies and struggling is always a part of growing your knowledge and improving. I can't bake for shit, but if I started I know I would ruin probably dozens of cakes before I made one that even tasted good. There is more to learn in every domain and nobody has the same exact knowledge, experience, or opinions on all subjects. Just because two things run on the same computer and you understand every single piece of one of them does not mean you will even the faintest clue of how the other works. > where you are constantly behind no matter how fast you run This statement is false. When you realize that nobody is ahead of anyone else, you can start focusing on what you want to get done. People will know more than you about certain things, but that does not mean they are "ahead" of you. The technical thing to take away from this is just backing stuff up if you need it. Make it easy. And if it soothes your conscience, big gigantic companies lose data all the time and they are professionals and get paid to do it. There are a billion ways stuff can fail, so even making small process improvements is incredible. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AreYouEvenReal2 · 2023-12-11 00:02 When you change a file - it's not like deleting it. The filesystem overwrites the old data with the new data. I didn't delete any files - that's not the problem here. No. I copied all the data to the right place. That all went fine. I even had it running on one linux system. I didn't erase that partition when I made the current system, though it was copied from a exhdd that was copied from a windows system. What happend was I used the docker compose file that I had setup with the configs to start running my applications. There was some problem with how the containers accessed the host folders and it caused them to be corrupted somehow. I had been trying to get the mounts working properly. It was for a while pointed at the exhdd that had one copy, and at another point it was pointing to the correct place (the media partition), therefore I think both copies might be corrupted. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- EvilEyeV · 2023-12-11 00:12 I mean, it is pretty portable as is. You copy over the persistent data to the same paths and fire up the compose files. I've done this many times. If you need it in a different location, you simply move.itmto the new location and modify the path in the compose file. That's all there is to it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- JuniorMouse · 2023-12-11 00:12 Do you want the latest of stuff? Do you understand the implications of always getting the latest of stuff without doing the due diligence of reading the release notes and cautions about upgrading? If you created a container two years ago and today you blindly create the container again using an image that has since gone through several major releases, you will probably have a bad time. Also, consider this as a learning opportunity. 1. Don't upgrade images without having a backup that you can easily restore. 2. Figure out a backup strategy (which may include volumes, containers, images, etc) that you know will restore your system to a certain state. Before you spend a lot of time building a system, figure out your backup strategy first so you know that you can always revert to a working state when trying to make a change. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AreYouEvenReal2 · 2023-12-11 00:14 This isn't just a hobby though. It's something I pretty much dedicated my life to for over a decade. I started with Linux and HTML when I was a primary school child. I now have a masters degree in computer science. Meanwhile something like baking I do as a side interest for a fraction of the time and get frankly better results. Same with homebrew, yes I still make mistakes but I have done it for less than a year and still make some great drinks some of the time; and I have good ideas on what to try next. I think I have had too many compounding frustrations lately. Finding a job in tech seems to be basically impossible for me as a graduate - I see other people get interesting jobs and feel left behind. I broke my phone through rooting not long ago. Thank you for the reassurance. I think that is what I really needed. Well that and a plan of action. My current thinking is to either learn k8s since it's probably the "right" way to do this, or just redo my config with proper backups this time. Maybe the db is actually okay, but I can't open it with a db browser. I will have a test it on another machine. At least the media is still there so all is not lost. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AreYouEvenReal2 · 2023-12-11 00:21 See I thought podman and docker where supposed to be drop in replacements. I am finding out now that they are a little more different than they appear due to things like not having compose built in, and having different permissions. moby-engine seems closer since docker is built from moby-engine. I didn't realise k8s was that complex. I found docker hard enough to learn. How do you cope with k8s? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- FunctionTypical9452 · 2023-12-11 00:22 I don't know if you've heard of him, but George Hotz also just completely bricked his new One phone ($1500) trying to root it (using someone elses root, not trying to make a new one) as well just within the last few days. He was known for publicizing the first jailbreak of the iPhone. I have a BS in CS and sometimes correct people with a higher education than me, and I also sometimes get corrected by high school students. Don't put pressure on yourself because of your education. And recognize that this is not related to programming any more than installing programs on your PC is. Shits hard. If it was easy, it wouldn't be fun. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- clintkev251 · 2023-12-11 00:30 I specialize in cloud infrastructure at my day job. So I work with these kinds of systems professionally. And I still find my k8s homelab to be a pretty heavy lift ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AreYouEvenReal2 · 2023-12-11 00:36 I have spent just as much time doing sysadmin stuff and other random stuff as I have programming. That's what makes it extra annoying. Like I have done \*arr setups before and none have worked as well as this one. I had to really be talked into doing one again as I just didn't think the technology was good enough to automatically navigate messy piracy sites. It's still not perfect every time but I think it has improved - though it still messed up some of my episodes. All of this will be easier when I have a job and my own place as then I can setup a server and not have to worry about moving it to the next place or using wifi. Well things are looking up I just got it to work on another machine. It seem the config and database is actually fine. For some reason moby engine and podman isn't working properly. I wonder why? I am going to go figure out how to get real docker running on bazzite linux. Should be amusing. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AreYouEvenReal2 · 2023-12-11 00:42 Yeah I know how it's supposed to work. It didn't work in this case, even though it worked before. I don't fully understand what went wrong but I have found out that my configs and db are not actually corrupted (at least not both copies). The issue it turns out is actually that the container engine won't mount them properly. No idea why. Probably has something to do with it being an immutable distro, or maybe because I have been using moby-engine and podman instead of docker-ce. They should be capable of the same things but it just dosen't work for some reason. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AreYouEvenReal2 · 2023-12-11 00:46 That was not the issue at all. The issue was the host or container engine (still determining which). The config files and db aren't even lost. I thought they were because I couldn't open the db in a db browser and the containers obviously didn't work. I fired it up on another machine with docker-ce and it works a-okay. the issue might be me using podman and moby-engine. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- JuniorMouse · 2023-12-11 00:50 Title, description and issue is unclear then. >Tried running it on a different linux OS and now all the configuration has been overwritten. I wanna cry. Git didn't work for saving my setup, so I never got onto git so I can't restore it. Sounds like you have retained all the important work after all and you just need to spend some more time on learning how to use these tools for your needs. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AreYouEvenReal2 · 2023-12-11 01:02 Yeah I thought it was lost. I was incorrect, thank goodness. It seems as well the problem wasn't my docker skills at all, it was the platform I am using. I am currently installing the official docker engine to see if that works. If not it's probably a permissions issue of some kind. Immutable OSes are odd things. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AreYouEvenReal2 · 2023-12-11 01:27 I got it working again. Turns out the config hadn't been overwritten! It was an issue with the container engine. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- TryNotToShootYoself · 2023-12-11 01:53 This caught me off guard because I wasn't expecting to see such a motivating and understanding comment this deep. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- revereddesecration · 2023-12-11 02:13 Read more docs. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- HTTP_404_NotFound · 2023-12-11 14:58 > I already know basic docker concepts. Your comments inside of this thread are telling me otherwise. Podmon fundamentally works the same as docker. There are even compatibility layers. The volumes, work the same, depending on the storage driver you configured. The storage driver, can have a massive impact though. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AreYouEvenReal2 · 2023-12-11 22:42 I am talking about accessing folders on the host so I don't think storage drivers are relevant. Is it that hard to understand that docker (which runs as root) has different permissions issues than podman (which runs under a normal user)? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- HTTP_404_NotFound · 2023-12-11 23:08 You, are indirectly proving my point. docker, can run as non-root, just as podman can run as root. You actually have to go through quite a few hoops and steps to get podman to perform correctly as non-root, since podman uses systemd to manage container state. https://www.redhat.com/sysadmin/rootless-podman-makes-sense Its slightly easier to get docker to run as non-root, as it doesn't use systemd for starting/stopping/restarting containers. https://docs.docker.com/engine/security/rootless/ > so I don't think storage drivers are relevant. If you are using docker/podman volumes, it can make a drastic difference. Using the zfs driver, for example, will create zfs-datasets for each docker/podman volume you create. The data stored under your docker root, is directly impacted by the storage driver you choose. If you are using bind-mounts, however, they will not be impacted. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AreYouEvenReal2 · 2023-12-12 02:00 Yes I am am mounting host folders, not using a storage driver. You said podman and docker perform the same. Yet one works and the other doesn't. I am talking about what it runs as outside the container. Podman is normally run as a normal user. Not like the docker engine that runs as a service under root and you connect to it with the docker command. Maybe this is what you mean by "rootless" where it's running as a normal user on the host. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AreYouEvenReal2 · 2023-12-12 02:09 Also I don't think you fully understand systemd. Systemd isn't just for root users. It is for managing user services as well with systemctl --user