Why are you considering plex „selfhosted”? reddit / selfhosted ---------------------------------------------------------------------- preclowski · 2023-12-04 00:29 Why are you guys considering plex as selfhosted solution? - you are dependent on their infrastructure. Plex can turn off their servers and your „sekfhosted” wont work anymore. You cant even login to „your” server - plex isnt private. Actually plex team acts as privacy predators. They are trying to monetize your every action and push ads (called recommendations) - plex isnt open nor transparent. They are pushing censorship on all communication channels and closed source code - plex is banning servers. Just few weeks ago they banned all servers on hertznee. You dont have control over your „selfhosted” setup - plex is pushing more features behind paywall. You cant even connect clients from other vlans without paying for plex pass (they will act as remote and force you to pay for premium) Why selfhosting community recommend plex to people who want to comtrol their own data? How is it different from netflix? The only difference is you are paying for disk space AND for service, when netflix get money just for service. Plex is youtube of selfhosting. There are truly selfhosted alternatives like Jellyfin or Emby. You can move your whole collection in few clicks or even use multiple services to access same data. Why plex? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ukkkiii · 2023-12-04 00:38 just switched over to an alternative. Not looking back! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- alphabuild · 2023-12-04 00:41 Why Plex? I love it! That’s why. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- pseudopad · 2023-12-04 00:43 You consider it self hosted because you love it? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- NikStalwart · 2023-12-04 00:46 Because the vast majority of "self-hosters" do not think about what they are doing, as evidenced by the choice of software (read: web UI control panels) and quality of questions we see on a daily basis. I think this is the cyber version of shopaholism — the giddy feeling of "owning" a "server" and, pressing "install" next to an application's name and watching the animated progress bar tick along. The rationale is, "but I am hosting it on my server, ergo it is self- hosted". But we run into Richard Stallman's distinction between Free Beer and Free Software. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Legitimate_Farm_3095 · 2023-12-04 00:46 been using it since around the time they came out. i dont get ads i dont understand what you mean by pushing censorship there is a reason why they banned hetzner server usage plex puts features behind a paywall like lots of other software companies do its more polished than emby and jellyfin. if anything i'd use emby over jellyfin. jellyfin is like windows 98 in terms of looks and the android tv app stinks also - emby isn't open source ---------------------------------------------------------------------- alphabuild · 2023-12-04 00:49 You’ve clearly got an axe to grind with Plex. All my media is on my server. I can access it whenever the hell i feel like. These posts are annoying. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- [deleted] · 2023-12-04 00:53 [deleted] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- TheReverend403 · 2023-12-04 00:54 What on earth are you talking about? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- bababradford · 2023-12-04 00:57 Who cares? Why does it matter if it’s self hosted or not. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- TopdeckIsSkill · 2023-12-04 00:58 * you are dependent on their infrastructure. Plex can turn off their servers and your „sekfhosted” wont work anymore. You cant even login to „your” server -> there is an option to enable local login * plex isnt private. Actually plex team acts like privacy predators. They are trying to monetize your every action and push ads (called recommendations) -> Plex is private and I like recommendations. Please care to explain how they monetize * plex isnt open nor transparent. They are pushing censorship on all communication channels and closed source code -> Care to explain the censorship point? * plex is banning servers. Just few weeks ago they banned all servers on hertznee. You dont have control over your „selfhosted” setup -> first: hosting a server on cloud is not selfhost. Second: they were selling pirated content * plex is pushing more features behind paywall. You cant even connect clients from other vlans without paying for plex pass (they will act as remote and force you to pay for premium) -> Plex devs need to eat somehow. You can you basic software for free or just pay the lifetime licence. Otherwise go to other free alternatives and discover why Plex recommended by everyone even if paid. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- notdoreen · 2023-12-04 01:00 It's still selfhosted. I get that they can turn off the service at any time but they can't take away my media. Also convenience. They have an app for every device and open source solutions like Jellyfin don't. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- NikStalwart · 2023-12-04 01:01 > You’ve clearly got an axe to grind with Plex. All my media is on my server. I can access it whenever the hell i feel like. These posts are annoying. Ironically enough, the person you are replying to is not even the OP. OP is /u/preclowski while the person you are replying to is /u/pseudopad. Moreover, the word "plex" (being the title of this thread) is mentioned *once* in the past fortnight on /u/pseudopad's profile. This is not something that can be remotely characterized as "an axe to grind". If an axe was in need of grinding, The hivemind is strong in this thread. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Tomnesia · 2023-12-04 01:01 It's running on my Intel Nuc and if my WAN connection drops it still runs fine so why would it not be a selfhosted solution? Sure some features are behind a paywall but i don't mind paying a small fee for software i enjoy and use often. Where have u seen an ad btw? Live tv? Ive never seen one but only use my own libraries. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- NikStalwart · 2023-12-04 01:02 None of what you said addresses OP's question of why you consider it self-hosted. You've said why you use it, which is fair enough, but not why you consider it self-hosted. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- zelig2 · 2023-12-04 01:02 Self Hosted does not mean Open Source. That’s why Plex is discussed in this group. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- omniterm · 2023-12-04 01:07 I use kodi for my media hosting, I don't have a need to access my media outside my home network and I do run a plex server but only cause Roku TV don't support kodi but does support plex. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- pseudopad · 2023-12-04 01:10 I don't think I've mentioned plex on reddit even in the last two years. So yeah, no axe to grind. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- c-fu · 2023-12-04 01:12 Stopped at they can stop your plex at any time 🤦‍♂️ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- magic0314 · 2023-12-04 01:18 Hosting on any host you have is self-hosting 🫣 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- magic0314 · 2023-12-04 01:19 Hosting on any host you have is self-hosting 🫣 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Drumdevil86 · 2023-12-04 01:20 Why are you even in this sub then? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- fav13andacdc · 2023-12-04 01:20 I don’t understand why I would have to pay Plex to utilize my own hardware for acceleration? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Themis3000 · 2023-12-04 01:24 By that logic running your own Minecraft/counterstrike/etc server isn't self hosted either because it depends on minecraft login servers to authenticate users. Also, paying for software isn't unusual. Even if you're hosting it yourself. It's your service in your hardware, it's self hosted. Sure, it depends on external services more than anyone would like but that doesn't make it not self hosted. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- thekrautboy · 2023-12-04 01:25 Honestly not even reading the entire post, but my simple and short answer would be: Plex is relying/requiring A LOT on their cloud services over the past few yéars. In situations when internet is down completely, Plex starts behaving very odd, bordering on unusable. Meanwhile in those same situations, Jellyfin works perfectly well to connect and playback media from a local Jellyfin server. Before the Plex fanboys reply, i am very well aware of the "fix" for Plex usingin offline, i wrote several comments about this in /r/plex but the major problem is that even with this "fixes" applied, Plex still behaves very odd when internet connection is not available, and imo it shouldnt. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Themis3000 · 2023-12-04 01:28 "I think I'm better than others because I'm not a noob and I know who Richard Stallman's famous quote" is what I feel like this boils down to. Everyone starts somewhere & for many this is just an enjoyable hobby. Don't put others down for being excited about it & being new to it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- nonlinear_nyc · 2023-12-04 01:32 If your Plex depends on their servers to run, if it bricks if their server goes down, by definition it's not self served. Partially maybe, but that would be the worst of both worlds. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ButterscotchFar1629 · 2023-12-04 01:32 It cost me 15 bucks to buy three copies of the app. Other than that it is free. It integrates well with other resources. If they pull the plug on it, I spin up a Jellyfin container and am back up in a couple of hours. I’m summary: I use it because it works. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Podshot · 2023-12-04 01:37 > you are dependent on their infrastructure > You cant even login to „your” server False, you can totally have Plex run standalone to their service/auth by disabling remote connections on your instance and giving an IP+subnet mask to your instance to allow IPs in that range to access the Plex instance without auth. [Screenshot of the option](https://imgur.com/a/n7vVebB) > plex isnt private If it's passing through their network/relay for remote connections then it's known to not be private and most people who really care about their privacy when hosting their media should probably already be aware of this fact. If you don't like this look to what I wrote above to improve the privacy of your Plex instance > They are pushing censorship on all communication channels and closed source code Can you provide any evidence of this happening? Or reliable sources to back up this claim? > Just few weeks ago they banned all servers on hertznee They banned them from using their infrastructure/relay, not from using Plex itself. If they were on a regular home/LAN network those instances would still be usable but since they were in a datacenter then tough luck and sorry to those affected. > plex is pushing more features behind paywall If the features are a dealbreaker for you not to have they either go with an alternative or pay for a Plex Pass. **Selfhosted does not equal free**. All selfhosted/open-source software is dependent on someone developing it and those developers have to be able to pay their bills and live too. Consider the Plex Pass like a donation to the developers for making software you use. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- TopdeckIsSkill · 2023-12-04 01:38 Self host means that you actually own the server. Otherwise is just renting a cloud server where you deploy something while owning nothing ---------------------------------------------------------------------- zelig2 · 2023-12-04 01:39 It doesn’t “brick” your machine if they take Plex.tv servers offline. You can still hit your Plex Media Server through its local IP address. That gives you plenty of time to find a new service since all your media is stored local. Plex.tv ultimately provides a secure method of remote access for your PMS without router firewall configurations. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- nonlinear_nyc · 2023-12-04 01:43 I see. So OP didn't tell the truth. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- weeklygamingrecap · 2023-12-04 01:44 Yeah, I would like to see a guide on how to reliably get plex to work offline, it did sometimes and other times not. So I'm sure I maybe am missing something somewhere. My beef with plex is more their focus seems to be on adding more instead of fixing. Brought up an issue or two and it never got traction on their forum so I just let it go. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- beesuptomyknees · 2023-12-04 01:45 You’re not. You can use your own hardware accelerated encoder outside of Plex. They are charging you to use it within Plex, a software tool that took a lot of time and money to create. Different companies monetize in different ways. Plex is one of the few companies that allows you to pay them once and not in perpetuity. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- fav13andacdc · 2023-12-04 01:46 Whaaaat? I had no idea. Can you name one? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Podshot · 2023-12-04 01:51 I made a comment that shows the option to do this. But to do this, go to the Plex instance/server settings and under the Network tab find [this option at the bottom](https://i.imgur.com/YwPyZe6.png) and set it up with your network(s) IP and subnet mask ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Legitimate_Farm_3095 · 2023-12-04 01:51 what does it matter when a good amount of posts in this sub these days is off topic anyway ---------------------------------------------------------------------- NikStalwart · 2023-12-04 01:55 > "I think I'm better than others because I'm not a noob and I know Richard Stallman's famous quote" is what I feel like this boils down to. Everyone starts somewhere & for many this is just an enjoyable hobby. Don't put others down for being excited about it & being new to it. I do not think this is a good faith interpretation of my comment nor my sentiment. I do not think I am better than others *just* *because* I know Richard Stallman's quote. I consider the quote to be extraordinarily apt in the present circumstances, I *do* consider myself "better than others because I'm not a noob" because that is an objective fact. I am objectively better (at certain things) than someone who is a noob because I am no longer a noob. I *also* consider myself "worse" (less knowledgeable) than many more others who do this professionally, have spent more time on it or have more skill. This, too, is an objective fact. There is nothing wrong with objective hierarchies of competence. There is a continuum between 'noob' and 'expert' and, if I am being honest with myself, I am closer to the 'noob' terminus of that continuum than to the 'expert' one. However, I think there is a fundamental attitudinal difference. There are "noobs", as you call them, who are eager and willing to learn, and there is a class of people who I shall call "adult pretenders". Pretending is appropriate at a certain age. But, after you get a credit card and start paying taxes, it is time to grow out of playing makebelieve. And, make no mistake, I consider people who use one-click installers to be playing makebelieve. I am not being elitist when I say this: a person who is capable of administering a server has no need to use a one-click installer. A person who requires a one-click installer is the kind of person who will open a github issue about a "PHP version error" instead of updating PHP and moving on with his life. Everyone starts somewhere. I started somewhere. Somewhere embarrassing. The issue is not with starting with the basics or with a lack of skill. The issue is with attitude. Some people have, or develop, a problem-solving attitude. Others do not. I do not believe you can call yourself a system administrator if you do not learn to solve problems. You objectively cannot learn to solve problems by using software that abstracts all of the problems away. Back on the subject of makebelieve: the OP makes a valid point about Plex not being a true 'self-hosted' solution. Github Enterprise can be hosted on-premises, but it is not 'self-hosted'. Gitea *is* self- hosted. In answering OP's question, I postulate that people who play makebelieve server administrators likewise believe that just because they run server software on a pre-configured NAS box they paid way too much for, it is 'self-hosted'. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- weeklygamingrecap · 2023-12-04 02:00 So I had those set last time and it did work but we hand an extended outage and all of a sudden nothing. Clients wouldn't connect and even the main machine wouldn't bring up anything. Internet came back like an hour later and everything worked again so no idea. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- chaplin2 · 2023-12-04 02:01 Quick question: Can plex the company login to my server and stream my media? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Podshot · 2023-12-04 02:02 Was it a client like Roku or the iOS app or was it through your server IP address? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- bababradford · 2023-12-04 02:02 Because I like self hosting things. But I could give two shits what someone considers “self-hosted” or not. And even fewer shits to take the time to post on Reddit about it about and write several paragraphs to prove how it’s not. It’s just trivial as fuck. Hence my previous post. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Podshot · 2023-12-04 02:04 No, unless for some reason they request to access your library and you approve their account to access your library/media. No one can stream media from your server without you giving them access first ---------------------------------------------------------------------- chaplin2 · 2023-12-04 02:13 Can plex the company login to my server and stream my media, if remote access is disabled? The users still have to authenticate. My understanding is that, users authenticate to the company which would then approve the connection. If the company handles the authentication, it can login. But I’m not sure. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- dnoods · 2023-12-04 02:16 Yeah, I’ve used Plex offline during an Internet outage just fine. You can setup a pin code or just let everything on your local network connect without. Most of my local devices point directly to it via DNSmasq, so contact with Plex servers is limited. It’s mainly account related stuff and “analytics”. So I would definitely say it is self- hosted. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Podshot · 2023-12-04 02:16 No, if remote access is disabled then no one besides devices on your local network can stream from your Plex instance. Only accounts you invite/authorized to access your Plex libraries can stream your media, regardless of whether you have remote access turned on or off. Plex the company will never stream your media themselves, their remote access service is just for users not on your local network to be able to stream from your server through plex.tv, the iOS app, and other clients ---------------------------------------------------------------------- chaplin2 · 2023-12-04 02:16 Plex is a polished app and works. I want to like Jellyfin, but it’s not at the same level. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- tenekev · 2023-12-04 02:17 Yes. OP has no idea idea what they're talking about. I love my jellfin server and never miss an opportunity to dunk on plex but damn OP, do your research before writing BS. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- pea_gravel · 2023-12-04 02:19 Because it's gonna take another 10 years for Jellyfin/Emby to catch up with Plex. You can't even compare. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- chaplin2 · 2023-12-04 02:21 Thanks for the clarification. Makes sense. Just a minor clarification: I didn’t ask if they do access regularly. I meant if they “could” access (so, the software capability is there), should they decide, or be compelled. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Oujii · 2023-12-04 02:22 I love how this sub gatekeeps everything they hate as not self hosted, but as soon as you choose a fan favorite, the gates open. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- KingPapaDaddy · 2023-12-04 02:25 What feature did they move behind a paywall? I've had a plex pass since '14 so I don't really follow what new features that aren't available. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Podshot · 2023-12-04 02:27 To my knowledge, no they cannot access/stream your media as a company. They can see what data goes through their remote access service, but that is to your authorized users and not to them, and what data they can see is just metadata. The authenication does go to the company first, but that's only if you're using remote access/Plex.tv/one of their apps. Otherwise you can use the local-network-only no-auth method to access your Plex instance without any remote access/account auth enabled through Plex the company ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Discommodian · 2023-12-04 02:33 I think Jellyfin looks fantastic. When was the last time you used it? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Discommodian · 2023-12-04 02:35 How so? Genuinely ---------------------------------------------------------------------- xiongmao1337 · 2023-12-04 02:39 Hm… have you used Plex? As far as I can tell, you have not. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- chaplin2 · 2023-12-04 02:50 Hard to describe the experience. Look at playback icons: spoon, tea, fork …? :) Common on! The selection drop down menus in my iOS app don’t render properly: just an empty rectangle. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- lesigh · 2023-12-04 03:25 The data behind Plex is your own. If Plex goes away you can easily throw up jellyfin or alternatives ---------------------------------------------------------------------- OhMyForm · 2023-12-04 03:28 People don't understand what self-hosting is if you're getting downvoted. I don't want to host most of the app; I want to host the app. < full stop. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Discommodian · 2023-12-04 03:35 Ah, in the mobile app…. You are absolutely correct. They are pretty terrible. However, for myself I only really use that maybe 1% of the time. For the time I need it, it is fine. I cannot download movies to my device which is annoying as well. They say they are working on it so I will be patient ---------------------------------------------------------------------- patronus6285 · 2023-12-04 03:52 No it's not self hosted and you didn't develop the code yourself. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- No_Bee_7194 · 2023-12-04 04:42 That is why I appreciate jellyfin😍 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- MyTechAccount90210 · 2023-12-04 05:04 Easy user switching. Parental controls. Offline ability on mobile apps. Far more polished ui. Zero config setup. List goes on. Jellyfin is great if you don't care about extra features. If you want features, Plex has an extra 10 years in the game. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- nonlinear_nyc · 2023-12-04 05:08 Wait. If Plex server goes away do plex app goes away? That's an important distinction. Of course I can find other apps. I always can, be them self hosted or not. So that's a moot point. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- thesoak · 2023-12-04 05:15 I have nothing against Plex, but I have no idea what you're talking about as far as Jellyfin's looks. The regular Android app is good- looking and clean. I love it on my tablet. The desktop app and Roku app could use some tweaks, but it's still pretty good. Comparing it to Win98 is kinda out there, lol. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- lesigh · 2023-12-04 06:03 The client and the server aren't as important as the library you accumulate. In most cases you can move your library to another app. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- nonlinear_nyc · 2023-12-04 06:16 You're repeating yourself and not answering my question. Its a very specific question... If Plex servers go down, do installed Plex servers stop working? Or do they keep on running? I know I can move library to another app. That's a given and out of scope. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- certuna · 2023-12-04 06:18 Plex has been around for almost 20 years in the same form, we’ve discussed these points a million times. - the media and the server app are selfhosted with the user, but the auth process (since it’s hard for users to do in a secure way) is done centralized on Plex servers - it’s indeed debatable if it’s really selfhosting if you host Plex on a third party VPS like Hetzner, but after many long discussions we’ve decided on /r/selfhosted that it is allowed - Plex is blocking logins from Hetzner since most commercial servers are hosted that way and they don’t want to get hit with lawsuits For the rest this is really a rant disguised as a disingenuous “question”, OP doesn’t actually want to discuss anything. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- FizzyWater9 · 2023-12-04 06:34 I don't think you intended to be rude, but you could use a dust up on your communication skills. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- FizzyWater9 · 2023-12-04 06:57 I believe your original comment and secondary comment would be a good example of the Straw Man Fallacy. Instead of arguing why Plex would not be considered a self hosted solution, you identify a specific group of "self-hosters" who you believe do not think when they install certain applications and attack that group. You double down on this by calling them "make believers" and "noobs" in the follow up comment. You don't actually address the actual topic until the very end of the second comment, which boils down to "I agree with OP". You still didnt technically make an argument about plex specifically, you only attacked a group of people because of your personal opinion. While you may use fancy words and quotes to attempt to sound correct, your argument is weak at best. Also, monologue much? Doesn't strengthen your argument. Each time you type noob makes you sound more like a noob. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- dralth · 2023-12-04 07:11 I appreciate the discussion in this post. I’m not a Plex fan, but I still consider it a self-hosted solution. You have many great points to not use Plex, but in my opinion, not points why Plex isn’t selfhosted. I’ll try offering a counter example for each point: - you are dependent on their infrastructure This is true for many self-hosted solutions, for example, to send push notifications to iOS often requires 3rd party infrastructure. - plex isnt private This sub considers privacy important, as do I as it’s my career. But I can selfhost a Nextcloud server that is publicly available and it’s still self-hosted, even if there’s no privacy. So not sure privacy is a hard rule out for being called self-hosted - plex isnt open nor transparent There are many closed source selfhosted apps with opaque practices. Especially for small business or enterprise. Selfhosted doesn’t imply FOSS. eg. Filerun is closed source and self-hosted. - plex is banning servers Some selfhosted apps use a TOS or licensing model which can result in banned servers in cases of abuse. eg. Jive will ban your server for abuse - plex is pushing more features behind paywall Selfhosted does not imply free. Many selfhosted apps advertise on this sub with a paid licensing model for premium features, each rekindling the debate about free-as-in-freedom vs free-as-in-beer. Open to counter points or examples. I learn so much from this sub. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- botterway · 2023-12-04 07:22 Jellyfin. But if your google-fu is so bad you haven't found that already, you're probably screwed. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- botterway · 2023-12-04 07:24 This. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- bufandatl · 2023-12-04 07:33 Because Plex has the best interface of all the OSS alternatives I have also running. Also I like the Apps more. The data is still mine and even if Plex were to ban my server the data is still on my server and I just can switch. Maybe one day jellyfin or envy will have intro/credit skips, support multiple editions and resolutions like Plex does but atm. I have of certain movies like 7 entries just because it has 3 editions (theatrical, TV, director‘s cut) and two of those are in 4k and 1080p. Plex organizes them in 3 editions. Not 7 single entries. Those features are why I use Plex over anything else. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- mrkesu · 2023-12-04 07:40 Well most of your claims are false and even irrelevant (like features behind a paywall), I do agree that Plex is a poor selfhosted option. The problem is that it is the best option for a lot of people, by far. I'll be switching to Jellyfin as my main app soon, but I'll still need Plex\\VLC as backups for every time I need to do something that the Jellyfin app simply doesn't support yet. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- marvbinks · 2023-12-04 08:39 Plex is more mature than jellyfin. It works better for how I use it. I've tried jellyfin many times and keep spinning it back up here n there but generally it doesn't cut the mustard so plex remains. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- marvbinks · 2023-12-04 08:41 I've used mine whenever there's been an outage. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- marvbinks · 2023-12-04 08:47 Every few months. They sync playback options across all devices rendering it very annoying to use for me. You can't have different use cases for different clients. I just want one of my clients to not autoplay the next episode and the rest of my clients to autoplay. This requires manually changing that option when I got to/from that client as jellyfin(and emby) sync those settings. So stupid and hence jellyfin is not viable for me. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- thekrautboy · 2023-12-04 09:00 https://www.reddit.com/r/PleX/comments/164n3vn/major_outage_remote_acc ess_plexdirect_dns_servers/jy9g01d/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- SchmeepyDooDoo · 2023-12-04 09:01 Privacy around my media collection is literally the last thing in the world im worried about at this point…. I like plex features and frontend better so im using plex. My internet is down so infrequently its irrelevant but I can still stream via plex locally if it does. My friends and family can survive an hour… If that changes Ill switch. Until it does, im exceptionally happy. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- GolemancerVekk · 2023-12-04 10:27 Your local Plex server doesn't stop working if Plex servers go down (or your Internet connection goes down)... **but** you cannot login to your Plex server anymore, because all login goes through their servers. In order to access your server locally in that scenario you would have to set an option that opens up the server to your LAN (by subnet mask) without login... which you would have to do in advance of the outage because if you can't login you can't configure the server. Also, by setting that option people can't have personal preferences anymore because they're using a sort of "guest" account. If you ask me that option is basically unusable but it does exist if you want to be pedantic. 😛 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- azukaar · 2023-12-04 10:28 I don't \^\^ To be fair it is kind of self-hosted except you get the downsides of selfhosting but not the upside... unless you're ready to jump throught a thousands loops with exotic configs and 3rd party clients ---------------------------------------------------------------------- GolemancerVekk · 2023-12-04 10:30 > or just let everything on your local network connect without. Did you have that option on before the outage? If there's an outage already in progress can I set that option without being able to login to Plex? Also, if you set that option, doesn't it mean that everybody on the LAN can see everything on the server, and also they have no personal watch history anymore? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- GolemancerVekk · 2023-12-04 10:33 It's too long to list so you may want to read this instead: https://github.com/Protektor-Desura/Archon/wiki/Compare-Media-Servers ---------------------------------------------------------------------- GolemancerVekk · 2023-12-04 10:35 > It doesn’t “brick” your machine if they take Plex.tv servers offline. You can still hit your Plex Media Server through its local IP address. Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't that mean you lose multiuser support? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- NikStalwart · 2023-12-04 10:37 > Each time you type noob, it makes you sound more like a noob. Nice try, but no cigar. The attentive reader will note that the word 'noob' is used strategically to engage with, and refute, the proposition advanced by the previous comment in this conversation and is not used in its own right as a reflection of my tone. > Instead of arguing why Plex would not be considered a self hosted solution, you identify a specific group of "self-hosters" who you believe do not think when they install certain applications and attack that group. I believe you will find that the question at the heart of the OP is why readers of /r/selfhosted consider Plex to be self-hosted. Ergo, there is no need for me to argue why Plex should not be considered self-hostable. I gave a direct response to the question being asked based on empirical observations amassed over the past 2 years that I have been participating in this community. I also find much humor in your attempt to parlay my observations into an 'attack' on some group. I understand that modern culture being modern culture *everything* is an attack, but the flailing is, nevertheless, amusing. > You double down on this by calling them "make believers" and "noobs" in the follow up comment. That's a D- for reading comprehension. As a matter of fact, I *do not* call anyone **both** noobs and make-believers. Rather, I draw an explicit distinction between people who are new to something and willing to learn, and people who are 'adult pretenders'. A direct quote, if I may: > However, I think there is a fundamental attitudinal difference. There are "noobs", as you [Themis3000] call them, who are eager and willing to learn, and there is a class of people who I shall call "adult pretenders". In fact, if one wanted to be extra petty, one could point out that I do not *call* anyone 'make-believers'. I *characterize* their *actions* as make-believe, but I call them 'adult pretenders'. My choice of words is rather deliberate, in that 'make-believe' usually carries an innocent connotation while a pretender is someone who claims a title that he has not earned. > You don't actually address the actual topic until the very end of the second comment, which boils down to "I agree with OP". You still didnt technically make an argument about plex specifically, you only attacked a group of people because of your personal opinion. Au contraire! I did not say that I agreed with the OP. As a matter of fact, I did not express an opinion on whether I, personally, think Plex is self-hostable software. I did say that OP made a *valid* point. The distinction between agreeing with a premise and accepting the validity of that premise may be blurry at times, but it does exist. Having agreed with the validity of OP's claim (in other words, having acknowledged that OP's claim is not completely kooky), I then substantiated my assessment by reference to two other software projects, one that is self-hosted, and one that can be operated 'on- premises'. To resort to quoting myself once again: > Back on the subject of makebelieve: the OP makes a valid point about Plex not being a true 'self-hosted' solution. Github Enterprise can be hosted on-premises, but it is not 'self-hosted'. Gitea is self-hosted. As can be seen, although I did not *agree* with the OP, you cannot say in good conscience that I "still didnt technically make an argument about plex specifically". This is an argument by way of analogy — an analogy about Plex specifically. > While you may use fancy words and quotes to attempt to sound correct, your argument is weak at best. Observable evidence suggests otherwise. If my argument was, as alleged, weak, I am sure you could have refuted it directly instead of *grasping at straws* — would it be gauche to suggest confession through projection? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- GolemancerVekk · 2023-12-04 10:39 ...Plex is free if you don't use any of the paid features, like transcoding, multiple users, offline playback etc. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Woke_killa · 2023-12-04 10:45 I think people are taking advantage of this because they got caught with a 100bucks transcoding fee. Now it's a pity for them to abandon the tool and they have to agree with the company's policy ---------------------------------------------------------------------- persiusone · 2023-12-04 11:35 I disagree about Plex not being a self hosted solution. Just because a service has external dependencies, does not label it as not self hosted. For example, many self hosted solutions require access to external DNS services. This does not make them not self hosted. Personally, I use jellyfin for a lot of things. It has all of the features I need and there are no incentives for my use case to change. I am genuinely concerned about Plex privacy although I highly doubt most people have those concerns. This does not make Plex not self hosted. For example, while Plex may have the ability to know what and when I stream content, does not make them in charge of the content I use. Like other software (Windows 11, for example), there exists telematics for usage habits. This doesn't mean windows 11 cannot be part of a self hosted system. I doubt many people know or care, but privacy concerns are not a factor for a self hosted requirement. That is a entirely different topic. Another example is your actual smart TV or streaming device itself. Hell, even many popular TV soundbars are known to send telematics home (I'm talking to you, Bose). This has nothing to do with being self hosted though. Plex is a great selfhosted solution for many people here and is considered self hosted IMO. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- linkthepirate · 2023-12-04 11:47 What about public IP address? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- fav13andacdc · 2023-12-04 11:53 Of course I’ve looked at Jellyfin, but the previous commenter seemed to imply that there were ways to use hardware acceleration outside of Plex that feeds into it. Maybe I misread. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Asche77 · 2023-12-04 12:00 Plexamp is the sole reason I don't use jellyfish or another server. I would have continued to solely use Logitech Squeezebox Server if the mixing via TheEchoNest had not been discontinued (bought up by Spotify). Just using MusicIP is a bit ... 90s. Do jellyfin etc offer comparable mixing properties and easy remote access? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- botterway · 2023-12-04 12:10 Oh, they're just talking about ffmpeg, which JF (and Plex, I believe) uses under the covers to do the transcoding. And of course technically they're correct, but integrating it with an on-demand video playback media library would require you to basically build Plex or Jellyfin. You can't use it with Plex. So it's a slightly pointless statement to make. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- GolemancerVekk · 2023-12-04 12:26 They didn't lie. You can still technically use your Plex but you cannot login. That means you can't have individual preferences for users, no watch history and no parental controls. Also because the server can't validate the license with the Plex servers you lose all licensed features for the duration (which include hardware transcoding). Also, the option to switch to "local only" mode needs to be activated in the Plex GUI by an admin so if you can't login I'm not even sure how you would do that. TLDR you can use your server disconnected from Plex but you lose major features. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- zelig2 · 2023-12-04 12:32 Plex works as a kind of dynamic dns for each of the remote apps if you let it. https://support.plex.tv/articles/200289506-remote-access/ If you don’t want the exposure then you can install something like wireguard/Tailscale to have direct connection through a vpn. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- linkthepirate · 2023-12-04 12:37 I think that is what op meant by not having it if their servers went down. I've used Emby since it was media browser and heard about plex after but having to go through them for remote access is one thing that didn't make me consider the switch very much. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- nonlinear_nyc · 2023-12-04 12:38 I see. Nice. Thanks. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- nonlinear_nyc · 2023-12-04 12:40 I see. Thank you. So OP has a point. It's self hosted yes but with some weird limitations. The pedantism comes in fact from the company. I've seen some other apps trying to qualify to certain criteria, let's say open source, or self hosted, or e2e encryption but with caveats. I don't trust these companies overall. It's like they try to stretch a term for their own benefit. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Eoghann_Irving · 2023-12-04 12:54 Why do you care? It's not a political ideology. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- fav13andacdc · 2023-12-04 12:58 That makes way more sense. Thank you for taking the time to explain it to me. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- CrispyBegs · 2023-12-04 13:13 while you may be technically correct, it may be you've forgotten how much of a leap it is from trundling along with netflix etc to actually setting up something yourself, that you're responsible for. In terms of a *self-hosting journey*, plex is often the first step and, for that reason, is reasonably considered part of the SH extended universe. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- zelig2 · 2023-12-04 13:25 You don’t have to go through Plex.tv servers. You can host everything at home. Then use Tailscale to connect while you are remote. It’s quite easy. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- linkthepirate · 2023-12-04 13:28 My point is though you shouldn't have to if you have a domain you should be able to connect to it like you would any other self hosted service. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- terAREya · 2023-12-04 13:32 We should sticky a post about why people use plex. This is becoming a daily thread ---------------------------------------------------------------------- terAREya · 2023-12-04 13:42 >How is it different from netflix? Last time I checked I wasnt able to put my 20tb of movies and tv shows into Netflix. ​ >plex is banning servers. They banned servers that were reselling access to plex libraries. I'm not here to judge but that behavior is going to get people into trouble for sure. And plex has to protect themselves ​ >plex is pushing more features behind paywall. ​ Many people, myself included, are lifetime plexpass holders. ​ >you are dependent on their infrastructure. ​ If they were to go down I have jellyfin and KODI up and running already. I prefer plex as my daily driver but Its easy to have a backup. ​ >plex isnt open nor transparent. ​ I love FOSS but it isn't a requirement in my selfhosted setup. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Discommodian · 2023-12-04 13:57 Okay, makes sense to me. I don’t need any of those. Jellyfin does what I need. I use it mostly in the web browser and I think the interface looks slick enough. I manage all of my users in Active Directory so that is easy enough. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Discommodian · 2023-12-04 13:59 Ah. It is always these niche use cases haha. But whatever works best for you. I have no hate on Plex. I just never paid for it and the deal breaker for me was transcoding being behind a paywall. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- terAREya · 2023-12-04 14:02 >We should sticky a post about why people use plex. This is becoming a daily thread > >1ReplyShareSaveEditFollow I just checked his comment history. PLex hater for quite a while ---------------------------------------------------------------------- TheReverend403 · 2023-12-04 14:10 This reads like you asked ChatGPT to write you a comment with as much unnecessary fluff as it can to make you appear smarter than you are. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- dnoods · 2023-12-04 14:31 I had set this up before the outage, so I can't say for sure if this is configurable without logging in somehow. It looks like it is a server specific setting, so I would like to assume you can get to it as long as you have admin access to the local Plex server. Should be a setting that says: >Comma separated list of IP addresses or IP/netmask entries for networks that are allowed to access Plex Media Server without logging in. When the server is signed out and this value is set, only localhost and addresses on this list will be allowed. It does open your content up to anyone on your local network, so just keep that in mind if you have any "questionable" content. But it is less annoying than needing to type in your login credentials with a TV remote. I do have "Managed Users" setup, which has some online requirements, but if you are just looking to access your content without Internet access and/or Plex servers go offline, then you can still do so. You just won't get all of the fancy features. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- djgizmo · 2023-12-04 14:38 Plex IS self hosted. And While SOME it requires internet connectivity, You can set up a Plex server offline and even log into it from home w/o authentication. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- FizzyWater9 · 2023-12-04 14:57 Which I would say, is a noob thing to do. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- FizzyWater9 · 2023-12-04 15:18 God you type so much and it means so little. Let me put it this way then. This sub is labeled "selfhosted". Plex is an app that you can "selfhost". You typing literal essays about noobs and adult pretenders adds little to no substance about whether people should selfhost plex, which is what the original OP brought up. If you want to actually help people on this sub become better at selfhosting (in your opinion), then you should spend less time writing monologues and actually giving advice to people. Your ranting does seem a little like chatgpt. That being said if this is what you sound like in real life.... poor people that have to listen to it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- PuckSR · 2023-12-04 15:44 self-hosted means that the program is running on your own server. It doesn't mean that it lacks any dependencies on outside sources? As far as I know, you are not dependent on Plex server to run. If your claim was true, then when I lost internet access during an outage, I wouldn't be able to play my files via plex locally. I can do that and I do it all the time. It is one of the reasons I have plex, so that my kids can watch a movie while I get the generator running My ad-blocker downloads from a public list online, does that mean I am not self-hosting my ad-blocker? I use duckdns for DDNS purposes, where I run a script on my server to update my IP address. Does that mean that my server is not self-hosted at all? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- RequirementFuzzy4244 · 2023-12-04 15:50 I started off using plex but recently I have been switching over to jellyfin more often, most likely will remove plex fully soon. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- PuckSR · 2023-12-04 16:11 Plex servers dont require login when access locally, so what are you talking about? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Onyx-jubatus · 2023-12-04 16:12 —- Did you have that option on before the outage? I had an internet outage yesterday and my smart TV could not access my local Plex server. I didn’t know about this option so not sure if I would have be able to change it. But at least in my client (the TV) there was no option to access a local Plex server. I had to navigate via UPnP service to reach my library from the TV. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- PuckSR · 2023-12-04 16:14 I think y'all are confusing multi-user with multi-profile. I can give someone else with a [plex.tv](https://plex.tv) login access to my server. This requires the [plex.tv](https://plex.tv) servers to be operating. But I can have multiple profiles setup and that does NOT require the [plex.tv](https://plex.tv) servers. Obviously, if you are sharing access to another [plex.tv](https://plex.tv) user, you will need the [plex.tv](https://plex.tv) servers to authenticate, but that isn't the entirety of how to access the server ---------------------------------------------------------------------- marvbinks · 2023-12-04 16:20 Indeed. It was emby I originally discovered it in and then hoped jellyfin was different but clearly was a prefork decision, unfortunate for me but fair enough. If they sort that out and have something comparable to plexamp I'd probably move over. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Tularis1 · 2023-12-04 16:48 I like Plex ---------------------------------------------------------------------- MyTechAccount90210 · 2023-12-04 19:55 The quick user switching is a game changer. My internal users have profiles about what they can watch, and my profile can have a pin to keep them away from the R rated movies or whatever. Jellyfin is OK. I run it in parallel. It's just not remotely the same beast. While this thread is garbage and full of shit in general....plex has gotten a little 'too big for their britches.' The involvement moreso from the cloud end is disappointing, but you absolutely do not have to have internet to use it. You can absolutely use it offline if you were wanting to. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- NikStalwart · 2023-12-05 12:37 > God you type so much and it means so little. Let me put it this way then. This sub is labeled "selfhosted". Plex is an app that you can "selfhost". You typing literal essays about noobs and adult pretenders adds little to no substance about whether people should selfhost plex, which is what the original OP brought up. Objectively false. The OP did not say people should not self-host plex, he asked people why they considered plex to be self-hostable. This is something I brought up in my previous comment, yet you neglect to address it —perhaps because it is irrefutable — in favor of talking about me not making sense and typing essays. Firstly, I see no problem with writing essays. The word 'essay' means 'to attempt'. What is so heinous about attempting ideas? Secondly, you accuse me of not making sense, yet the particulars you advance have no bearing on what I actually did or did not say. Either someone is MITMing our exchanges and presenting you with something much less coherent than what I am typing on my end, or you are not interested in engaging in good faith. > If you want to actually help people on this sub become better at selfhosting (in your opinion), then you should spend less time writing monologues and actually giving advice to people (which you are capable of doing based on your response history) Hey, thank you for looking into my response history and acknowledging that I do give people valuable advice. I enjoy the intellectual exercise of doing so. I do disagree with you though that my comments as to attitude are not 'actually helping people'. I consider attitude to be an important factor, perhaps as important as skill and knowledge. To that end, commenting on matters of attitude would be just as impactful towards 'helping people become better at selfhosting' as commenting on technical matters. > And also, if you are not actually using chatgpt to make your responses wordier, then realize that you probably sound like a pretentious jerk at times. I consider it a sad reflection on the modern education system that a bare minimum of literary decorum is considered impossible without the use of ChatGPT. Is it so inconceivable that someone might have actually paid the slightest bit of attention in high school? That someone's vocabulary might extend beyond 'based', 'pog champ' and 'GFY'? But let's consider it from a different perspective: given how ChatGPT has been lobotomized into political correctness and inoffensiveness, would it be capable of writing comments for me? Thought not. As for sounding like a pretentious jerk — I can live with that. But, since when did having manners and being articulate make one a jerk — let alone a pretentious jerk? Would it *really* have been better if I just said 'no u wrong', perhaps with a smattering of profanity? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- NikStalwart · 2023-12-05 12:52 I've said as much to another commenter, but it bears repeating: I consider it a terrible indictment of the modern education system that a bare minimum of literary decorum is considered impossible without the use of ChatGPT. Is it so inconceivable that someone is capable of being articulate of his own volition? That someone's vocabulary might extend beyond 'based', 'pog champ' and 'GFY'? I think you are overestimating the capabilities of the current generation of large language models. Great bullshit artists, but coherence just is not there. Ever hear the tragedy of Levidow Levidow & Oberman? It's not a story most lawyers would tell you. One lawyer used ChatGPT to write court filings for him. ChatGPT invented caselaw instead. I also find it curious that you did not engage with a single point in my comment, but, instead, elected to comment on how smart it sounds. I guess I could be flattered — but to what end? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- TheReverend403 · 2023-12-05 12:58 My god you sound so fake and pretentious. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- NikStalwart · 2023-12-05 13:03 Hey, at least I have variety between comments. You're just saying the same thing in, what, two comments? Three? NikGPT signing off. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- TheReverend403 · 2023-12-05 13:11 > NikGPT signing off. Please do. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- FizzyWater9 · 2023-12-05 16:51 >Objectively false. The OP did not say people should not self-host plex, he asked people why they considered plex to be self-hostable. This is something I brought up in my previous comment, yet you neglect to address it Quote the line where I said "OP said you shouldn't self host plex" :) I know at this point you will probably say that I inferred it, or use my last line where I said that "you agree with OP" to argue that point, but I would say that wouldn't be "engaging in good faith" > Either someone is MITMing our exchanges and presenting you with something much less coherent than what I am typing on my end Nope, I can say I have read your replies and they are very incoherent. >I do disagree with you though that my comments as to attitude are not 'actually helping people'. I consider attitude to be an important factor, perhaps as important as skill and knowledge. To that end, commenting on matters of attitude would be just as impactful towards 'helping people become better at selfhosting' as commenting on technical matters. I don't remember saying that your argument about attitude is not actually helping people. I just said that you are not helping people when you write monologues and don't give people advice (which I also said you are capable of doing based on your reply history). I think if you changed your attitude, you may be able to help more people on this sub. I've heard that attitude is just as important as any other factor. >Is it so inconceivable that someone might have actually paid the slightest bit of attention in high school? That someone's vocabulary might extend beyond 'based', 'pog champ' and 'GFY'? I apologize, I've never heard the words "based, 'pog champ', or 'GFY' before. Its probably because my terrible high school education didn't teach me those words. Could you provide a definition for me? >As for sounding like a pretentious jerk — I can live with that. But, since when did having manners and being articulate make one a jerk — let alone a pretentious jerk? Ok, I'll drop the pretentious. I dont think your pretending to be anything, I think you actually believe you are the intellectual you state you are. That being said, according to merriam webster, the definition of jerk (or at least sub definition b) is "an unlikable person". Based on the down votes i've seen on all your replies on this post so far, I think it is safe to say you are trending in that direction. But i've heard that a change in attitude could help fix that. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- FizzyWater9 · 2023-12-05 17:15 My god I think you are right. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- NikStalwart · 2023-12-06 00:16 > Quote the line where I said "OP said you shouldn't self host plex" :) That's just the thing: I did. I can spend the next 15 minutes explaining to the impartial observer why this statement is disingenuous, but it is unnecessary at this point. You know, I know, and the reader will know that (a) I hit a nerve and (b) you are refusing to concede a single point on principle. That's fine, so am I. The difference is that I am right. The evidence for me being right is in the fact that I can engage with what you are actually saying, whereas you need to paraphrase what I am saying into a form that is easier to argue against. The second piece of evidence for me being right is that I can refute your commentary on the merits and do not need to resort to labeling you incoherent or a jerk or accuse you of using ChatGPT. I rest my case. > I don't remember saying that your argument about attitude is not actually helping people. Yes, you did. You draw a juxtaposition between my 'monologues' and 'essays', as you term them, and giving people advice. You say that instead of doing the former, I should be doing the latter. This is a logical 'exclusive OR' assertion. Logical gates, aren't they fun? The biggest advice *anyone* can give to self-hosters — or any hobbyist, for that matter — is "Read the fucking manual (RTFM)" and "the lab coat and stethoscope do not make one a doctor." > Ok, I'll drop the pretentious. I dont think your pretending to be anything, I think you actually believe you are the intellectual you state you are. That being said, according to merriam webster, the definition of jerk (or at least sub definition b) is "an unlikable person". Based on the down votes i've seen on all your replies on this post so far, I think it is safe to say you are trending in that direction. But i've heard that a change in attitude could help fix that. That is one possible inference. Another possible inference is that I hit a nerve — and people hate it when you point out their shortcomings. I may be unlikable in the eyes of people whom I have accurately characterized by my comments. I do not need to be liked by them. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- FizzyWater9 · 2023-12-06 05:21 You are right. I am not going to concede on a single point on principle. Same goes for you. I obviously disagree about you being right. You are welcome to pick and choose what points you see fit to argue about and pick apart my every word if you wish. In fact, I'd prefer that you do it to me instead of someone new to self hosting. That being said, one thing you have insisted on being right about is attitude. This seems to be a really important topic to you. With that in mind, I want to reference something in your original reply to OP. >Because the vast majority of "self-hosters" do not think about what they are doing, as evidenced by the choice of software (read: web UI control panels) and quality of questions we see on a daily basis. Every person in this sub is in a different place in their self hosting endeavor. Some people are going to use plex and other easy to use/install tools. There in a different place than you and I. But our attitudes about these people are very different. The things you say and do just gate keep those people, which you do very intentionally. You obviously think most people on this sub don't know what they are doing considering you made the statement "the vast majority of self-hosters". Every reply you gave to me had statements about why you were right. Pretty much every statement you gave was used to belittle me. Fortunately, I will leave this conversation thinking "eh, another keyboard warrior at their finest". But there are people here who will never get to enjoy this hobby because of your statements (as true as you may believe they are). If that's your goal, congrats. You win. However, I want more people here, enjoying this hobby and contributing. This sub may very well be the reason why we see lots of new projects available for us to use, which is great. If you truly believe that they way you talk and express your opinion actually helps people on this sub, then I think you need to reflect on life and change your attitude. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- TheReverend403 · 2023-12-07 14:06 Jesus Christ dude, go outside. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Themis3000 · 2023-12-07 18:18 Ur fkin weirdchamp ong