What can I do that isn't illegal? reddit / selfhosted ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Quark__Soup · 2023-11-29 17:04 Hi everyone, I'm starting my self hosting journey and have run into a snag. I just took a job where I need to get govt security clearance and take polygraphs etc, so I cannot engage in piracy. What that means in practice is actually abiding the ToS for all my media, so I cannot rip DVDs, I cannot capture streams (I believe including YouTube channels because they're copyrighted and YT ToS but please correct me if I'm wrong because that would be amazing). What I've done so far: There is legal precedent to rip CDs and digitize books for personal consumption, and I have also begun buying albums I want from Amazon Music (they let you download the mp3 files directly instead of a Spotify/YT Music system). - I am going to be hosting immich for my Google Photos replacement - I don't know the best service for a YT Music/Spotify replacement, but maybe Jellyfin of nothing else. - I want to have a digital movie library. So there's the rub. How can I have a digital movie library without ripping DVDs? It is an unauthorized reproduction and although nobody is prosecuted, it is illegal and I'd have to disclose that. Any advice is welcome, and I'd love to hear conversation about this. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- funkbruthab · 2023-11-29 17:12 … just rip your dvd’s. You literally can’t go straightedge how your describing and self host a movie library. I thought there was legal precedence for ripping your own collection for personal consumption and retention though. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- mistersinicide · 2023-11-29 17:26 Literally build a contraption to put a dvd into your computer and RDP into said computer and watch said movie (poor man's streaming) which should be super legal I'd imagine. Since you're not ripping dvds. lol ---------------------------------------------------------------------- h3xdump · 2023-11-29 17:35 Unless you’re doing a full scope nobody will care. Even then it’s highly doubtful. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- joelnodxd · 2023-11-29 17:40 you can manually find which movies are out of their copyright period and are free to download, but you'll only be watching 50s/early 2000s romcoms if you do that ---------------------------------------------------------------------- pseudopad · 2023-11-29 17:45 Why is a DVD an unauthorized reproduction if a CD isn't? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- th-crt · 2023-11-29 17:52 FYI, polygraph tests don’t work. they’re a pseudoscience. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ceciltech · 2023-11-29 17:53 Polygraphs are junk science and do not work. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- RaiseRuntimeError · 2023-11-29 17:54 What country is this? No one cares this much except North Korea and i dont think you would be posting on Reddit if your worried about a little piracy. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- New_Yogurtcloset1035 · 2023-11-29 17:55 Even a full scope, they don't give a shit about ripping DVDs or torrenting. They want to know if you're a druggie, gay, or terrorist/spy... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- New_Yogurtcloset1035 · 2023-11-29 17:55 Even a full scope, they don't give a shit about ripping DVDs or torrenting. They want to know if you're a druggie, gay, or terrorist/spy... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- New_Yogurtcloset1035 · 2023-11-29 17:57 Even a full scope, they don't give a shit about ripping DVDs or torrenting. They want to know if you're a druggie, gay, or terrorist/spy... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- abandonplanetearth · 2023-11-29 17:58 Unless money is extremely tight or this is your ultimate dream job, I'd keep looking for other work. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- SchmalzTech · 2023-11-29 17:59 Media shifting is fair use. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- madjic · 2023-11-29 18:00 Depends on the jurisdiction There might be laws against "cracking" the copy-protection (CSS for DVD, hdcp for BR) although there might be precedent that it's okay for home use ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Install_GNU_LINUX · 2023-11-29 18:09 polygraph tests are not real. keep pirating sailor 🏴‍☠️🏴‍☠️🏴‍☠️🦜🦜🦜 ARRR! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- CharlesSpicyWiener · 2023-11-29 18:14 This changed my life, but get playon home, and subscribe to any streaming service you want and download everything you want. It will create localized files you can put on a Plex server. I am currently at 30 movies and I have downloaded 2 entire shows. PlayOn is such a godsend for me. (Obligatory, do not share your Plex server to anyone but yourself. This could be considered a crime, also PlayOn post some of your information on the first 3 seconds of every file.) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- NurEineSockenpuppe · 2023-11-29 18:16 How would anybody ever find out if you are locally ripping dvds and why would that even be considered a crime? And if it is… who is the victim. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Quark__Soup · 2023-11-29 18:16 There's precedent for CDs for personal use, but for movies breaking DRM is illegal, you are just purchasing a license to view the data on the disc, not purchasing the data. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DesolateWolf · 2023-11-29 18:17 Just don't distribute anything. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Quark__Soup · 2023-11-29 18:18 It's fair use to copy the files but it's illegal separately to break the DRM, meaning you can't digitize a DVD without breaking the law ---------------------------------------------------------------------- turkishtango · 2023-11-29 18:20 Maybe you can collect podcast episodes? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Quark__Soup · 2023-11-29 18:21 The US, and posting on Reddit is mutually exclusive from piracy. I personally would like to avoid piracy, which I think is okay ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ZealousNympho · 2023-11-29 18:25 I actually don't think it matters if you do anything illegal. That's seriously hazardous advice at face value but consider the case of Edward Snowden. He omitted his white hat hacking escapades as a youth - though he reported his vulnerability findings to the relevant agency during the time of hours indescretions so had little to high. Even unemployment, he obtained a Top Secret clearance and passed the polygraph with flying colors. He is now a futitive - marked as an enemy of the state. While he is a proud American, and I consider him a hero, he lives in Russia where he was forcibly exiled and cannot get return to the states. Even then - he didn't end up there because he lied on a polygraph. Remember the 11th Commandment: Thou Shall Not Get Caught. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- pseudopad · 2023-11-29 18:26 All right, but keep in mind that breaking the terms of service for a service is not a criminal offense. Using an ad-blocker on youtube is against their terms of service, too, but it's not illegal. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- klaasbob88 · 2023-11-29 18:36 Keep in mind that CSS is so bad that it has been sacked as a "security mechanism" (as the computational power required to crack the key is just a bit above the counting skills of an elementary school student), but I guess we're more talking about BD's. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Quark__Soup · 2023-11-29 18:37 Yeah I think if the YouTube videos are listed under creative commons or some other open license I can legally download them with yt-dlp, or check with the uploader. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- redoubt515 · 2023-11-29 18:43 How is posting on reddit related to piracy? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- redoubt515 · 2023-11-29 18:43 \> so I cannot rip DVDs, I cannot capture streams Would any government job with a serious enough mission to require polygraphs and security clearances actually care about this kind of kindergarten illegality. Seems like the digital equivalent of jaywalking or rolling a stop sign. Are they also going to check up and make sure you have never burned a CD in your life, or shared a Netflix password? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- dcabines · 2023-11-29 18:44 Can't you make a disc image without breaking DRM? I used to make images long ago and it retained the DVD menu and everything. You mount the image like a hard drive and play it like if you inserted the disc. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- RaiseRuntimeError · 2023-11-29 18:49 North Korea has draconian laws like OP posted about, some of those laws include access to the internet so would not be able to post on reddit. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- redoubt515 · 2023-11-29 18:56 USA has pretty backwards laws when it comes to piracy also (less draconian I'm sure) and no prohibitions on using the internet. That said, I highly doubt OP would fail their background check due to ripping dvd's or youtube streams... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- RaiseRuntimeError · 2023-11-29 18:56 >Internet access is available in North Korea, but is only permitted with special authorization. It is primarily used for government purposes, and also by foreigners. [source](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_in_North_Korea) Yeah, maybe posting on reddit and piracy are mutually exclusive but if you are concerned with piracy laws and a citizen of North Korea i am sure you would be concerned with breaking other laws. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- RaiseRuntimeError · 2023-11-29 19:00 >I highly doubt OP would fail their background check due to ripping dvd's or youtube streams Me too, thats why i brought up a country that possibly would care about something as minor as online piracy. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thutex · 2023-11-29 19:06 pro tip: if you do not read the ToS, you also can't lie about if you are breaking them or not ---------------------------------------------------------------------- lilolalu · 2023-11-29 19:13 So, the government job does not pay well enough so you can pay for Netflix & Disney+ or why do you want to host our own movie streaming? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ChesterDood · 2023-11-29 19:13 Remember Jerry, it's not a lie, if you believe it is true ---------------------------------------------------------------------- tillybowman · 2023-11-29 19:17 if they ask you on the poly if you done anything illegal and you say: ripped dvds that’s gonna be a good laugh for all ---------------------------------------------------------------------- HerefortheLAN · 2023-11-29 19:21 Honestly? The government is not going to care unless you get caught. Had you been caught before, you would not have received government clearance. You are literally in the same position you've always been: getting caught means no government clearance (only difference is you would lose it now as opposed to being barred from ever receiving it had you been caught before). AFAIK, you MAY rip your legally purchased media for backup purposes. So backup your DVDs and DONT expose those copies to the public internet. Even if you did and you were investigated all you would have to do is show them the physical copies; how would they know which you used for viewing? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- JakeSully-Navi · 2023-11-29 19:33 Ripping own dvds isn't usually illegal, as long copy you made stays for private use only. But if you start spreading it via torrent or similar then you are doing a illegal activity. Since some times when a dvd disc is damaged and you manage to copy it or make a copy of it then you can use copy to watch the movie again privately at home with family. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- tdslll · 2023-11-29 20:27 No, the DRM has to be broken at some point in order to play the media. It's technically illegal to do that without permission from the DVD licensing association (which you are never going to get). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- dcabines · 2023-11-29 20:27 Um, how does a DVD player do it then? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- JoeB- · 2023-11-29 20:47 >I want to have a digital movie library. [Legal to Burn Copies of DVDs That You Own?](https://www.findlaw.com/legalblogs/law-and-life/legal-to-burn- copies-of-dvds-that-you-own/#:~:text=What%20the%20Law%20Says,that%20co ntain%20copy%2Dprotected%20content.). It is not. "*Title I of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DCMA) states in part that it's illegal to "circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title."* *In short, circumventing the copy-protection mechanism on the DVD is a violation of the DCMA."* I would speak with your manager about how much they would care if you rip DVD or BluRay discs. They likely won't care. The DMCA simply introduced a loophole to fair use. IMO, it is more important that those with security clearances avoid any activity that could result in them being compromised, like questionable debt (eg. gambling) , drug use, etc. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Vinnipinni · 2023-11-29 20:54 Couldn’t you record the DVD? I know Blurays have HDCP, but I’m unsure if DVDs have a similar protection during playback, since screen recording shouldn’t break the Copyright if there is none. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- from-nibly · 2023-11-29 20:59 It's actually kinda gray. Vidangel lost a court battle on something similar. You would buy the DVD from them. They would robot it into a drive and then stream it to you, then they would buy it back at a discount effectively doing a "rental" to you. You could even request that the disk be sent to your house. Buy Disney got all huffy and shut that down. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Annual-Advisor-7916 · 2023-11-29 21:02 And how will they be able to tell if you pirated something, if you are taking precations, like tor or VPNs? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- speculatrix · 2023-11-29 21:04 Ask a friend to hold onto your disks. Then you can say truthfully, if asked, I used to rip CDs, DVDs and bluray, but I don't have this material any more, I just stream legitimate content off Amazon/Netflix etc. But you need to learn how to fool polygraph tests because you'll still have a "tell" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- KN4MKB · 2023-11-29 21:04 The security clearance investigation is not concerned with privacy. You won't get a polygraph unless you want a top secret clearance, and I'm betting you only need a secret. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- mistersinicide · 2023-11-29 21:39 Dang, got to love corporate America. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Reetin · 2023-11-29 22:46 Polygraph tests are notoriously poopy. They aren't even admissible in court. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- FizzyWater9 · 2023-11-29 23:20 I don't know what country you live in, but I have worked on multiple gov contracts (software development in the USA) and have never been asked to take a polygraph. It was eye opening to find out that deep down, they really don't care about what each individual is doing (unless you mess with their data). That being said, what you are asking is really hard to do without dancing on the line of whats "legal" and whats not. You'll have to decide where you draw the line and host what you can. Nobody can force you to admit to crimes (at least if you live in the west). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- emprahsFury · 2023-11-30 00:02 The dcma contains a personal backup exemption that lets you break drm to make a backup. It needs to be renewed every few years ---------------------------------------------------------------------- emprahsFury · 2023-11-30 00:04 Regardless, they are used to make adjudications. You can be the one to sink millions of dollars suing the feds after the Denny you a job. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ok_Expert_5751 · 2023-11-30 01:14 For 20 + years in my misspent youth, I had a TS-SCI clearance. I would suggest avoiding the grey area early on in your career. The investigators are going to be much more interested in discussions about circumventing laws rather than minor crimes such as copyright violations especially if you stumble and hesitate while talking about it. Once you get the clearance, you are going to be completely amazed at the commonly known, but let's pretend it didn't happen, stuff that people with clearances actually do. The government has often spent 100,000's if not millions of dollars, training people with high-level clearance. They are not going to throw all that away for a ripped DVD. Plus, people with clearance often know where the skeletons are for other people with clearances. Nine out of ten times, if someone finds out you did a fireable offense they are not going to do anything about it. They are going to tuck that information in their pocket and use it as leverage to make sure that next time some shit rolls downhill, you will do your best to make sure none of it sticks to them. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Quark__Soup · 2023-11-30 01:17 Can you provide a source on that? Everything I found says otherwise and I would very much like for it to be true ---------------------------------------------------------------------- emprahsFury · 2023-11-30 01:30 Here https://www.copyright.gov/1201/ and- for the current temporary rules which has the direct language: https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-37/chapter- II/subchapter-A/part-201/section-201.40 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Quark__Soup · 2023-11-30 02:42 Thank you for the link, I read the whole doc, and sections b1-b4 (the motion picture stuff) do not seem to apply to people who aren't educators, official libraries, or institutions that hand out degrees. Did I miss something? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- vermyx · 2023-11-30 02:49 Sony famously got burned in the mid 2000's because Mark Russinovich found that Sony was essentially installing rootkits to prevent ripping as DRM which caused a huge uproar. You technically are breaking the law by ripping CD's because like movies you dont own the music you own a license to play the music. There are several CD DRM that exist but most of them aren't used because they had tendencies to cause CD players grief and most companies stopped using them after Sony's debacle because they saw that as too much of a liability. You can break the DRM legally to make one backup copy of any media you own (music or movie) and thats where it gets murky. IIRC there's a provision added to the DMCA that if your media is no longer viable that the originating company can replace it or at that point you can use your backup (but it gets iffy at that point) as well as fair use assuming a DRM copy is the only viable source. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- emprahsFury · 2023-11-30 03:54 I only glanced but no i don't think you missed anything. Maybe i was wrong. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- tdslll · 2023-11-30 04:27 >because like movies you dont own the music you own a license to play the music. You actually don't really own either the musical copyright or a standalone license to play it. You just own the CD. It was sold to you for your personal use, and you can exercise that right however you please. So long as you don't vend or distribute it (or continue using your copies after you've sold the original disc), there's nothing illegal about transferring your DRM-free CDs to an iPod. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DicerosAK · 2023-11-30 04:34 I say fess up and let them decide if they want to delve into the details of your understanding of fair use vs spending expensive polygraph time asking you about important stuff like personal debt or or foreign contacts. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- travprev · 2023-11-30 05:47 So you want to be one of the 5% of honest government employees... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- vermyx · 2023-11-30 06:07 >It was sold to you for your personal use, and you can exercise that right however you please. You can't. That's kinda the point of contention with the DMCA and how copyrighted/trademarked material works and why people want to have their own DRM free media. People would buy DRM free media more readily because the user experience would be better on general and why people want to rip their media. At napster's height music sales were better than prenapster. >there's nothing illegal about transferring your DRM-free CDs to an iPod. The CD can actually have verbiage that says you can't rip it even if it doesn't have DRM and can theoretically go after you for ripping it even for personal use. You don't have an explicit right to the media you buy which has been a major point of contention. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- tdslll · 2023-11-30 06:58 >You don't have an explicit right to the media you buy which has been a major point of contention. Technically, US courts don't deny that you have some rights to media you buy. They just disagree that you have the right to an easy high- fidelity copy of the original. Quoting from [Wikipedia](https://en.wik ipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Millennium_Copyright_Act#%3A%7E%3Atext%3DThe_i nitial_ruling_at_the%2Cnot_outright_restrict_fair_use.?wprov=sfla1): >The company also claimed that the act violated the First Amendment by placing too much burden on those seeking to use protected works for fair use. The initial ruling at the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of California rejected both arguments on the basis of Corley. The ruling established that the DMCA was not unconstitutional, and that while it did place a burden on users accessing works for fair use, the DMCA did not outright restrict fair use. In the case of the ebook example, the ruling observed that the user may have to type a quote from the ebook rather than copy and paste from the unprotected version. But yes, it is generally illegal to copy DRMed media, even if it's for an entirely legal purpose. I also think that case is kinda stupid, since the inability to make a high quality reproduction of the original can make some kinds of criticism impossible... But what can ya do 🤷‍♀️ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- steviefaux · 2023-11-30 07:27 Sounds like a nightmare job. Why they still use polygraph tests is beyond me. Its not admissible in court because poly tests are bollocks. All manor of stress, even the thought of taking it can cause you to fail it. Dvd ripping for your own consumption as long as you still have the media is classed as backup which is legal. Blu-rays may havd fudged it by making it illegally to crack their encryption which you'd have to do to backup but still. Doubt they'd care if you were doing it for internal use only. Assume this is in the US? Your employment laws are odd. Sounds like a right arse government job. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- steviefaux · 2023-11-30 07:35 Yes. There is an ex fbi agent that does talks about this. Clench your butt hole is how you fool it apparently. Thats not a joke. Apparently takes some practice. It massively ridiculous they are used. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- HellDuke · 2023-11-30 11:25 The country matters here. Though overall, isn't it distributing it what constitutes as the piracy part rather than just ripping something? As far as I am aware, ripping a disk for personal consumption (so long as nobody gets access to your library) should be no different from backing up media that you won. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- th-crt · 2023-11-30 13:57 yeah, they’re used, but *you are no more likely to fail or succeed whether you’re lying or not*. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- akamuraaa · 2023-11-30 14:39 Dont Work for the gov i guess? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- terAREya · 2023-11-30 14:46 Do you believe ripping a DVD for personal use is PIRACY? If you do not believe it you will be fine on the polygraph