I don't fully understand how/why you guys selfhost some apps reddit / selfhosted ---------------------------------------------------------------------- dafuccdoyoumean · 2023-11-28 10:49 I don't have a home server yet but I'm exploring and sometimes I get confused about some posts here. For example I saw a post asking for recommendation for a "self hosted budget management app". Can't you just install this type of app to your phone or pc? What's the purpose here, will you host it and access it from a browser? Or do you only want to backup it to your server? I hope I don't sound stupid please enlighten me. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- FallenFromTheLadder · 2023-11-28 10:53 Yes, the main thing is to have applications that are accessed by multiple people with a browser plus the centralized backup system. And you accessible from PCs, tablets, smartphones, etc. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Sammeeeeeee · 2023-11-28 10:53 Mainly because the data is not being held by some third party. You have full, more granulated control. You aren't relying on anyone or anything. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- imsinghaniya · 2023-11-28 10:53 For the joy of being able to do such things. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- sushikingdom · 2023-11-28 10:54 I think some people also treat this as a challenge/hobby. It’s not necessarily something that they definitely want but they want to be able to run it on their home lab and justify costs of hardware (me included) haha ---------------------------------------------------------------------- rutrapio · 2023-11-28 10:54 Same. For the fun, and the technical challenge. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- CrimeShowInfluencer · 2023-11-28 10:54 As someone looking forward to self-host budget management: Yes, an app on the phone is nice and all, but I'd also like to manage my budget on my PC and want my wife to be able to manage it on her phone + PC without relying on cloud solutions (especially with sensitive data like this) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- dafuccdoyoumean · 2023-11-28 10:54 So what you host is the data and not the app, is that it? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- spusuf · 2023-11-28 10:56 By hosting the app you unlock the possibility of hosting the data. You cut out the blind trust you're forced to give to the middleman. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Lumsti · 2023-11-28 10:57 When you use a "free" app, you pay with your data. Thats something a lot of us don't want to. Additionally, it makes fun and is kind of a hobby to build and maintain this stuff. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Sammeeeeeee · 2023-11-28 11:01 Can be either. For example, I use findroid to access my jellyfin server, so I'm only accessing the data, but on windows I use the web, so I'm using the jellyfin gui as well. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- spusuf · 2023-11-28 11:02 Security. Having your data in your own control instead of blindly trusting companies, where it's more likely than not your data is being sold. Choice. If there isn't a feature, add it yourself, switch frameworks, change everything if you want, no more "we're working on it" status updates when something isn't working or a feature isn't out. All the options are in your hands. Pricing. Why pay monthly for "premium features" when you can have the most premium tiers for free. Especially true on anything with storage limits, 1tb of storage drive being cheaper than a few months of 1gb storage on some apps. Speed. Sometimes it's just more streamlined when there's less bloat and you've hosted the exact thing you need on your subdomain with a single login page between you and the exact page you need. Less interaction needed to get where you're trying to go. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Simplixt · 2023-11-28 11:03 Because we can. Just because we can. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mugen0815 · 2023-11-28 11:05 I dont understand it either. I host on a VPS, because I trust my hoster more than my ISP and more than my own security-skills. Also its cheaper than running own hardware. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ZombieLinux · 2023-11-28 11:12 Total control. Let’s take the budgeting app for example. I started using Mint in 2009. There’s more than a decade worth of banking, spending, and investment information in there. Mint is shuttering in about a month. They gave all their users a month and a half notice. When it’s gone, it’s gone. When a self hosted app is used (with appropriate backups, orchestration, etc) YOU the user get to decide when you’re done. If something isn’t working for your life anymore, you can find an alternative and migrate everything over on your own schedule. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- bflobrad · 2023-11-28 11:13 Mint is probably the largest budget app out there and they just announced that they will be going away at the end of this year. Many of us have years of data in Mint that we are about to lose. Experience has taught me to avoid depending on third party services for something I could self-host. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Micex · 2023-11-28 11:17 That’s one big reason for it. 1. With this data you can transfer it to another application any time you want. 2. Don’t have pay any subscription and still have my eata harvested and used back on me in forms of ad ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ilco1 · 2023-11-28 11:17 mainly because its my nerdy hobby . plus i like the feeling of owning my own data and learning new stuff ​ and it also is quite handy to just have a server to test if somthing is usefull to you self and can sometimes save you a little money .as you can host multiple things on one server instead of having to pay for multiple comercial services at the cost of your own time ---------------------------------------------------------------------- schol4stiker · 2023-11-28 11:18 Well, you are relying on the open source project development not being stopped. As enjoyable as I find self hosting, I always fear the moment a system I love gets discontinued and at some point stops working (let’s take the budget app and the fact that interfaces to banks can change and need to be maintained). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- fuuman1 · 2023-11-28 11:18 >findroid Oh shit. I am using Jellyfin for years and never thought of looking for alternative Android Apps. Because the official app is not that good. Findroid looks awesome. Will 100% check it out tonight! Thank you. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- h311m4n000 · 2023-11-28 11:20 Most if not all apps on phones will require you to sign up and your date is out of your control as it is not hosted by yourself. Plus you are usually limited to doing everything on your phone which is a pita. Selfhosting is a way of life. I enjoy providing services to myself and my family that I control with the peace of mind of knowing that data stays with me. And it's fun doing it too! My guess is once you start selfhosting yourself, you'll eventually come to the same conclusions. However, selfhosting isn't without it's dangers. You have to ensure you have backups of the data. You are also responsible for securing it and you have to maintain your infrastructure as well ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Sammeeeeeee · 2023-11-28 11:21 True - I considered writing that. However, most projects, even if development stops, can continued being used without any updates for a long period of time, as long as you are safe about it. Some unique cases not - for example the banking app - but since it is open source, it will most likely be maintained as long as it has a large enough user base. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- IceOleg · 2023-11-28 11:24 OP might be asking why selfhost a budget/finances service instead of using a local software, something like GnuCash or KMyMoney. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DanJOC · 2023-11-28 11:25 But once an app gets to critical mass, even if the developers step down, somebody else will probably replace them and keep up development. That's the beauty! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- hyperactive2 · 2023-11-28 11:27 This is one of my motivations as well. I want to give my family access to our data, especially budget and archiving apps. Not just sensitive data, but massive too. Our photo library is in TBs, and self hosting is the most economical way to share that between us. My extended family has even turned to giving me their documents and photos to store more safely than they can and I give them a login. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Standard_Parking7315 · 2023-11-28 11:32 The main advantages for me are learning and data. For instance, with the budgeting app (Firefly 3) I learned a lot more about banks and the data available to third parties (and myself). I also have a lot of data about my consumption behaviour and I can use excel or AI, if I want, to do clever stuff with my data and take better decisions. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Simon-RedditAccount · 2023-11-28 11:34 >Can't you just install this type of app to your phone or pc? For one instance of app, it's possible to install it onto a single machine. Things get tricky when you want to access the data from multiple devices. Even trickier, when several people want to access it. After a certain point, it's easier to have a "cloud" solution. And since "cloud" is just somebody's else computer, why not make this a computer YOU own? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Valuable-Question706 · 2023-11-28 11:35 This should be the top answer - that's what OP is asking about exactly. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Disastrous-Account10 · 2023-11-28 11:38 Yup, why do I run XYZ, cause I can lol ---------------------------------------------------------------------- jogai-san · 2023-11-28 11:38 * easy to use with multiple people * easier to manage for multiple people * easier to backup (since you don't need to do backups per device) * less hassle when you switch personal devices (or reinstall a laptop for ex.) * You own your data (instead of a mega corp.) * Less dependent on internet connectivity*, power outages* * Its a nice challenge * Its fun (some of us like the self inflicted pain that comes along with it ^sometimes) *limited to outside factors like how much you actually self host and how much backup power you can store/generate. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- JohnBeePowel · 2023-11-28 11:52 Even when you pay for an app, chances are you are still paying with your data. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- terramot · 2023-11-28 11:53 You can host the data and/or the app that can be accessed cross- platform. If you're on someone else's PC be it linux, windows or mac you can pop open a browser and visit a url to access your app with the stored data. Or you could host the data and access it using the clients on multiple/different systems. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- jasonweiser · 2023-11-28 11:54 that’s true and it’s happened twice now with Paperless>Paperless- NG>Paperless-NGX Way better than a company issuing a press release you might not see saying that you have all of two months or whatever to download all your data before they close down the service ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Fungled · 2023-11-28 11:55 Some of it has to do with open source. For example, the budgeting app I use in proprietary and is excellent and I happily pay for it. However if the company went bust or was acquired or something else unfavourable happened, I’d be up a creek without a paddle. At least if it’s open source there’s some hope of it at least not completely disappearing ---------------------------------------------------------------------- usrdef · 2023-11-28 12:01 You can still self-host on a rented VPS. And unless you have a managed VPS, then you're still responsible for the security, and managed hosting is far too restrictive in terms of what you can do. This is exactly why I host my own stuff. I know how to tighten up the security to the point where it's just as safe as it would be sitting on some other companies' system, and I don't have to worry about what they're doing with my data, or a data breach. Seen too many companies that are lax on security (such as LastPass). I throw extra encryption in place when means even if someone were to be able to gain physical access; they've got a hell of a brute force to go through just to break one part. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Lumsti · 2023-11-28 12:11 Thats true as well, another good point for self hosting ---------------------------------------------------------------------- reneald · 2023-11-28 12:12 Exactly. Even without the sharing element, tracking your expenses is ideal on a smartphone, but looking at the bigger picture, re-balancing your budget etc. are far easier on a PC. So a local smartphone app is not feasible for me. I used to use YNAB before they went with a subscription model, and their 'classic' app will soon stop working. So self hosting seems to be the only option. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Infuryous · 2023-11-28 12:14 The risk is there for popular paid comercial apps to. Microsoft Money was a prime example, after many years of service MS decided they no longer wanted to support it and shut the service down. At least with open source and self hosted, there is a chance someone will pick up the ball and keep supporting it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- chipredacted · 2023-11-28 12:24 Plus, if you’re job hunting, the skills learned in self hosting are not unnoticed and may even be directly applicable to what you’re applying for. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Invisiblelandscapes · 2023-11-28 12:37 Digital ocean got too expensive for me. The raspberry pi server I’m using will pay itself off in about 5 months. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Cylian91460 · 2023-11-28 12:43 >Well, you are relying on the open source project development not being stopped. No, I can continue to maintain open source project by myself (maintain != Adding feature). All of you should be able to do that. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Invisiblelandscapes · 2023-11-28 12:47 It’s for that hit of dopamine every time I get an application to work. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Zeal514 · 2023-11-28 12:51 Think of it like the difference between renting and owning something. When you rent a home, you do not own it. You don't get to choose. Want a nicer water heater? Not your choice. The owner takes 100% of the responsibility, but often isn't penalized for misbehavior. So they can for instance, decide that they don't like you, and you no longer can use their servers. Or perhaps they dislike other companies, and strip features from the rental agreement. Even worse, all your valuable data, along with everyone else's, is all stored in a single valuable location, becoming a prime target for thieves. I half expect some of the "data breaches" we see are inside jobs, where the company leaves a loophole open, tells the "thieves" about it for a small sum of cash. I personally like self hosting. Once you get into it, and understand how to reverse proxy, and set up a domain, you can essentially self host anything ridiculously easily. Like, for me, setting up a container, and funneling it into my reverse proxy maybe takes like 30-60 minutes, ironing out bugs and stuff? Sometimes if it's particularly easy, it takes like 5 minutes lol. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- CactusBoyScout · 2023-11-28 12:53 After a while, you start to get tired of apps and other online services either disappearing or changing in ways you don’t like. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Sudden_Cheetah7530 · 2023-11-28 12:54 Self hosted budget management app is like more advanced user stuff rather than the normal users would do. So hosting that kind of things might sound very weird to you, I get that. But it is more like a tendency. Most users start their homelab with very basic services like storage management, video streaming, photos, or note taking. There is a huge steep learning curve to run all of them safely and robustly, but once you get over it and there is a wide and very flat area you literally can do anything whatever you want. Budge management app is like that thing. Many of us wouldn't start hosting budge management app, but we will get there eventually. Because we can. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- dazchad · 2023-11-28 12:56 I'll add that sometimes the self-hosted version does something that the "official, paid"[1] version doesn't, or at the very least allows you to try to hack it together. A problem with commercial offerings is that their idea of completed product is different than yours, and depending on the feature there's not enough $$$ incentive to pursue it. This is _the_ major problem with Google, because search is such a ocean of income, that no other project will ever stand up to it. [1] I say official because quite a few of self hosted versions are clones of some paid product. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- KingQuin · 2023-11-28 12:57 What selfhosted app do you recommend for budget? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- schaka · 2023-11-28 13:00 Most of the time it's just a hobby and I enjoy the challenge of solving a "problem" we have at home. But for payment related stuff, I prefer having control over my own data. Granted I upload encrypted backups to a Google Drive via duplicati for important data - so technically Google still holds my data. But they aren't the ones in control and I have local backups too. Of course, I don't back up terabytes of media. I'm considering backing up my own rips, harder to find stuff as well as my music (some, I don't even remember where I got it, because it's been on external drives for well over a decade). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- iroQuai · 2023-11-28 13:00 This, above all other reasons given in other replies. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- TheQuantumPhysicist · 2023-11-28 13:04 Besides the fun, I don't like being under anyone's mercy. There are tons of stories on how Google and Amazon blocked people with no right, and people got locked out, because Google doesn't give two shits about you. You're just a number. I refuse to be part of that herd. The internet was meant to be decentralized. It wasn't meant to have Google controlling everything... and now look where we are, Google almost did their "web DRM" web integrity thing, because they can. Leave alone the easy ability of government agencies to spy on you. They can't spy on me easily. It's hard work. Besides all that, I own my movies, books, music, etc. So, it's the right thing to do. I do the right thing, and live a better life. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- sarinkhan · 2023-11-28 13:10 An easy reason to self host apps: share media with the household. Sure you can have a samba share and have people browse trough a folder to find the good movie. Or they can load jellyfin or Plex and have a netflix like interface that remembers where you left off and all the fun stuff. You can then add other stuff that will automatically search, download and organize new TV shows episodes for your, etc... Another reason is some stuff are only possible when hosting. For instance, grocy is an app that lives on a server and manages your stock of food. You can scan goods with your phone and add them to your stock. You can scan them when you throw the can/box etc to say you used it up. Then it generates a shopping list for you. The nice thing is that it lives on your server, not on your phone. So if more than 1 people do the shopping, you can have a synchronized shopping list, and update it in real time. And the self in self host part is cool because you decide who sees this and no Google or Amazon makes a profile out of your shopping habits. You can have an online office suite that works in your browser without anyone unauthorized seeing your files. You can have a bookstack wiki, where you put notes about the house, or whatever you want, and gave it being reachable only by you and people you allow, without a lot of account management. You can have your own nextcloud, so you have file sync, calendar, etc, without it going at Google or apple. And it is on your server so you can have as much or as little data backup as you want. And often a good fiber line is cheaper than a VPS or a full dedicated server... With all of this, you can seamlessly switch between multiple computers . You can also manage the loss/destruction of your laptop. Or phone. You can have a local equivalent to Google photos with photoprism. You can have a frigate server for video surveillance and object recognition, but all in local, your video files don't leave your house. A s it will do local AI stuff. Last but not least: when you self host your stuff, you can still do a lot when the internet is down. You can replicate services on your laptop if you want. You do whatever you want. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Psychological_Try559 · 2023-11-28 13:11 There's a number of reasons. I would guess for most people here it's really about control of their data, which is a form of privacy. Making sure it stays on their network (ie: in their control) unless they approve it to go somewhere else. There can be financial reasons (eg: backing up 10s or hundreds of terabytes to the cloud can get expensive), practical reasons (poor Internet access, especially internationally), latency/performance reasons (home automation). Sometimes you'll also get better interoperability with selfhosted stuff since exporting data is usually trivial and there's no walled garden lockin. And that's not everything, just a few reasons I can think of off the top of my head. But you're right that some of these are often not the case. It can easily become more expensive (depending on how you account for things), it's definitely more work & it's never as easy as "just install and app and create an account". Finally we can't forget that a not insignificant number of people here are aspiring (or actual) sys admins. This is a GREAT way to learn the trade if that's your thing. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- utopiah · 2023-11-28 13:11 Because connectivity today matters, namely yes I want an "app" to work on my current device but what if I want to use on another device? Share with family, friends, colleagues or even a random stranger? Then arguably hosting the app with its data is the most logical way. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- UnacceptableUse · 2023-11-28 13:16 Yep, this is a hobby. Most of us just want to LARP as a sysadmin ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AnApexBread · 2023-11-28 13:19 >"self hosted budget management app". Can't you just install this type of app to your phone or pc? What's the purpose here, will you host it and access it from a browser? Or do you only want to backup its data to your server? I don't want some third party having access to all of my transaction history and knowing what I spend and where. >I hope I don't sound stupid please enlighten me. Your question isn't stupid. There is an important decision you need to make on "is the juice worth the squeeze." While you can selfhost a lot of stuff sometimes there's better reasons not to. Email is primary example that gets brought up a lot. Sure you *CAN* self host it, but for a lot of people on this sub it's not worth the effort required to do so. Each person has to make that decision for each of the things they choose to self host. Budget apps are no different. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AnApexBread · 2023-11-28 13:21 >There’s more than a decade worth of banking, spending, and investment information in there. That's the real reason I would self host something like a budget app. I don't want a company like Mint to have (and sell) my purchasing and financial history. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- RaiseRuntimeError · 2023-11-28 13:28 We chose to do these things, not because they are easy but because of the hardware. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- TheFumingatzor · 2023-11-28 13:33 >Can't you just install this type of app to your phone or pc? Sure, but then the data is, in most cases, not mine. It's shared with some 3rd party. "Free" apps aren't ever free. No such thing as "free". You're always paying with something. Other than that, it's a hobby. Learning hosting, docker, containers, servers, Linux, etc. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- bflobrad · 2023-11-28 13:36 I don't have a replacement yet, but I plan to look at Firefly III. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 12_nick_12 · 2023-11-28 13:54 So I can backup and move my data as I please. Also means if it's self hosted I can access it from anywhere. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- i_hate_shitposting · 2023-11-28 14:01 Another factor to note is that, due to developer (and user) preferences, some apps are just built as web apps rather than desktop/mobile. For those apps, you have to self-host them somehow if you want to use them. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- gramoun-kal · 2023-11-28 14:06 \> Can't you just install this type of app to your phone or pc? The people who make that app, and host the servers that run it, they often like to get paid. Not necessarily by you. Maybe they'll get paid by Google in exchange to allowing Google to show you ads in their app. Maybe they sell the app, then, yeah, they're paid by you. Maybe some other thing. Like doing some statistics with everyone's data and selling the results. Either way, they're working for you, but you're also working for them, in your own way. Me, I work for myself. That's just how I roll. That's just how many of us roll. We enjoy the idea of being unaffected when the companies that own our services decides to hike its prices up, or punish users with an ad blocker. We like the idea that we'd be unaffected by a nuclear strike on the Silicon Valley, God forbid. We'll be sad and all, but our apps will still run. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Sym0n · 2023-11-28 14:10 Take a look at Yatse too, you'll have to pay to unlock the ability to connect to a remote host but it's £3 for lifetime I think. Far better than the official app and has offline play. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- gibberish420 · 2023-11-28 14:11 We chose to do these things not because they are easy but because we thought they would be easy ---------------------------------------------------------------------- schol4stiker · 2023-11-28 14:11 Why should we? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Cylian91460 · 2023-11-28 14:11 Because you used them ? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ZombieLinux · 2023-11-28 14:13 Also valid. I had to take a pragmatic approach with it to also meet SAF. The internet was also a very different place 14 years ago. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- deadlock_ie · 2023-11-28 14:16 Maintain means fixing bugs and addressing security issues as they come up. It doesn't mean just forking the Github repo. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- deadlock_ie · 2023-11-28 14:17 and now my wife is using it and I can't turn it off ---------------------------------------------------------------------- bem13 · 2023-11-28 14:17 Self-hosting something doesn't necessarily mean being able to maintain it. For example, I work in operations so I mostly know Linux, network stuff and technologies used to *run* applications. I can modify source code and probably fix some simple errors, but I imagine not many people would be able to fix something like Wireguard if it stopped being supported and something in the kernel changed, breaking it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Cylian91460 · 2023-11-28 14:17 Yes ? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- herrjonk · 2023-11-28 14:17 For me I wouldn't say LARP, it's more doing just the fun things with no restrictions and responsibility. :p I wouldn't enjoy doing this as much in a professional setting ---------------------------------------------------------------------- kondorb · 2023-11-28 14:19 Open-source self-hosted apps: 1. Free - I don’t have to pay for 100 different subscriptions for crappy SaaSes that never get any meaningful updates and sometimes don’t work at all. 2. Don’t depend on someone else’s infrastructure - my apps are up because I’ve ensured they’re up. Someone screwing up their deployment, which always happens in the worst possible time, doesn’t affect me. 3. Often cost less to run - I have so much stuff stored in my Nextcloud that I would pay the cost of my entire setup for some cloud storage every 1.5-2 years accounting for electricity costs, equipment amortisation and even cloud backups. This point is even more valid when you add your family to it. 4. Sometimes better made - for example Nextcloud macOS and iOS apps are much less buggy than Google Drive on these platforms. 5. Give me full control over my data - for me that primarily means that I’m responsible for backing up and restoring it. I’ve experienced data loss with cloud services multiple times over the last 10 years, now I don’t trust them with my data. I’m perfectly capable of handling it myself. 6. Give me features that the horribly inefficient SaaS business cannot afford, like streaming high-res lossless music or compression-free 4K video. 7. Aren’t tied to internet speed, ping, server issues at least while I’m home. Nothing can beat LAN, especially when it’s wired. 8. Aren’t even tied to the company’s developers to some extent - I can fix bugs in open-source apps myself. I can even fork it and modify how I want. 9. Will run forever if I want - any SaaS can be closed at any moment as a business decision. Worst that can happen to FOSS - it gets abandoned. Which is not too bad - I can still run it. Half of these point only work because I’m a senior software engineer with DevOps experience myself. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- SirEDCaLot · 2023-11-28 14:19 The data is the important part. What isn't often explained is how the app works behind the scenes. Let's say you download an app that tracks your fitness. Like most apps, you have to login to it with an email or your Google/Apple login. Behind the scenes, it's creating an account on the app developer's server, and all your fitness data is being stored up there. Since they registered you with email, they can easily correlate that with other marketing databases, figure out your identity, and now they have another datapoint to sell to an information broker. So now the broker doesn't just know 'John Smith is 32yo male from Nowheresville California, who likes anime and pizza and Call of Duty', they can add 'he's also 240lbs and can run 1/10th of a mile before he gets winded'. So now you get weight loss and fitness stuff in your targeted advertising. Point is- with that cheap/free fitness app, you aren't the customer. You are the product being sold, or more specifically your data is, and the data brokers and marketing companies that buy your data are the customer. I don't want to be a product sold at market. And in most cases, the only way to ensure my data stays mine, is to keep it physically in my control. That means self hosting. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- mr_whats_it_to_you · 2023-11-28 14:19 Learning by doing is the main example most people will selfhost things. For example why would you want to solve a puzzle if you can buy it ready made? Why building a statue of lego bricks and not buying the built statue? Because learning about something you like is fun and you gain experience from that which might be beneficial for your present or future job. Also some consider data privacy more than others. With selfhosting you own your data and not the company behind it. Why should I make an account for a recipe app if I can selfhost it and not needing an account? Why sharing my private information with some random tech company? There are a lot of things people want to accomplish by selfhosting. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- itshardtopicka_name_ · 2023-11-28 14:20 Budget management app is not someone who starts with, its just oh i got a sever, i use a lot of other self hosted server, why not use a budget manager too. Now is this better then app? of course! 1. now i can backup my data to 3 place 2. my parter dont need to install anything on there phone to see how much crap i am buying 3. i can automate things with n8n with my finance (i never did, but you can) etc ---------------------------------------------------------------------- GACGCCGTGATCGAC · 2023-11-28 14:21 If you have development experience that's not necessarily hard to do. Especially if you have a lot of experience using the application. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Luffy2ndGear_ · 2023-11-28 14:24 Honestly I would say most of it’s just to do it because you can and also because you get experience in doing all these things that can translate to work. I would say I have a lot more container and virtual machine experience than majority of the people at my job and can explain it better than them. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Cylian91460 · 2023-11-28 14:29 The kernel is open source, you can either see what change or git blame to ask how you can update it. But yeah I forgot project like that exists ( I was assuming they weren't getting abandoned) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- nightmareFluffy · 2023-11-28 14:34 I'm not a programmer and can't code. Why should I be able to do that? It's like hundreds of hours to learn it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Danternas · 2023-11-28 14:36 Different reasons. Main are availability and support for several simultaneous users. Pi-hole, web server, media server and cloud storage only makes sense when available 24/7 for several users. My most niche case is installing a VScode server because you can't install VScode on an Amazon Fire and I wanted to do some web design on the train. I can now access a VScode server through the browser anywhere and sync it with Git. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Lanky_Information825 · 2023-11-28 14:40 I got sick and tired of throwing my money at unreliable, overpriced hosting solutions, only to discover I could do it at a fraction of the cost at home, and without ever opening a single port to the public. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Cylian91460 · 2023-11-28 14:41 So you can help projects that are broken but I understand you not having the time to learn/do it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- liotier · 2023-11-28 14:42 Local is the original selfhosting ! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- FierceDeity_ · 2023-11-28 14:45 Technical challenge sounds a bit ironic to me considering how many millions of man hours went into making it all into 1 docker command for so many services. We're living the best life ever in hosting stuff on computers! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- srosorcxisto · 2023-11-28 14:45 Typically if someone wants to self host something like that it's because they want to interact with it using a mobile app. Without that aspect, you're correct that desktop software would be the more typical way to go. Using the budgeting example, self hosting would be to provide something like Mint rather than something like QuickBooks. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- thepenis_mightier · 2023-11-28 15:01 That's one I haven't heard about in a while... I bought that one, too. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- craigmontHunter · 2023-11-28 15:01 Exactly- I have a desktop and a laptop and want the same experience on both. I do have file sync setup with Nextcloud so that is handled, but for some things a hosted version makes sense. I’ve come a long way from using briefcases on a 3.5 floppy to have my data where I want it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Wdrussell1 · 2023-11-28 15:02 This is going to highly depend on what you hope to achieve with an application. 1. Does the app need more than one person to access it? 2. Does the app need constant up time? 3. Does it make sense to host it? Really this boils down to how you feel about each of these questions. So your example, the budget software. Yes I can have a single instance of that app on my computer. However I need my wife to have access to it, as she handles the finances. Another example however is Jellyfin. This is something that is accessed from multiple locations and by multiple people. So today I might be watching a movie while I work. Tomorrow my wife might be doing that. Friday we might have family night. So that needs a server hosted out to actually make sense. Game servers are another example here. They need constant up time and to be on hardware that is not the machine I am playing the game on. It is also important to remember that many of us host all of this in a single location that we back up, and also have redundant drives. So we can easily make sure we have copies of our data at any given point. So while yea I can keep all my D&D data and PDF management on my computer, it is easier and more secure to keep and host that on my server where I have a backup and parity running. There plenty of other examples here too like my phone pictures of my daughter or other various bits of data. Finally, there are things I just want to tinker and play with. I have no reason to host specific things other than to look at what the tech is like. Stable Diffusion is an example here. But my own ChatGPT instance would be useful if only every now and then. Just have to figure out what exactly makes the most sense to you. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Goaliedude3919 · 2023-11-28 15:19 Even more recently, Mint is being shut down, which is probably the most popular budgeting app in the world. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- bem13 · 2023-11-28 15:23 But you'd have to be senior-level savvy with like a dozen programming languages to be able to maintain any project by yourself, not to mention the time it would take. It's just not realistic, in my opinion. Fortunately if a project gets abandoned, a new team usually comes along or an alternative emerges and users just have ---------------------------------------------------------------------- mrkesu · 2023-11-28 15:23 > What's the purpose here, will you host it and access it from a browser? Or do you only want to backup its data to your server? I have been online for a long time and seen countless services come and go, often my data goes with them. So that was my reason for a long time, having my data available and not relying on some third party. Now, with the emergence of Big Data + AI I've also become a lot more privacy aware. Before I couldn't even imagine why anyone would want to target my data (data mining takes a lot of work to be useful), but now/soon they can just point AI at data dumps and ask it something like "give me a list of X people to exploit, order it by method, chance of success etc etc" Paranoia? Yes, but suddenly it feels reasonable to be paranoid. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- cyrus2kg · 2023-11-28 15:26 By blocking our all of your potential enemies from spying on you, you are also blocking discovery of you by potential friendlies. As AI advances further who knows what kind of systems will control what, and I'd rather be a person with a data profile than one without. Hopefully that data doesn't get weaponized by bad actors more than used to ones advantage, but the reality is if you walk outside, and probably even if you don't, someone has a phone with 100 sensors in it just itching to log you. It's easy to make the argument that data controlled by anyone other than yourself will only be used against you and that's why you self host and make sure it's used to your benefit. To be off the system entirely is a red flag in and of itself. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Scaredy14 · 2023-11-28 15:28 There's lots of different reasons depending on the application. Sometimes, it's privacy, other times it's for the cool factor of "look what I can do", and then sometimes it's about learning or even just because I can. But, admittedly, sometimes self hosting can be too much of a pain and I just use some free app or pay a couple bucks for an ad-free experience. To give a cool factor example, I have Blender in a Docker Container that can be accessed from any web browser with access to my network. No need to install anythjng other than a browser and all the heavy lifting is done by my server and not the end user device. I can use Blender on my smart tv's browser and use the magic remote as a mouse. It's a terrible user experience, and I don't actually use it that way. But I could if I wanted to! One last example is a combination of privacy and cool factor. I was going to use a "free" app for the phone for physical storage organization (garage, storage unit, etc). You do have to buy super cheap QR code stickers from the company (so cheap it seems they are selling them nearly at cost), then stick the QR code sticker on a box, and then you scan it with the app which opens a text file in the app where you type in everything that goes in that box. You can even add photos, and there is a section for location (garage, storage unit, etc). Sounds great, right!? Well the terms and conditions plainly say that they have rights to any and all information you type into the app. Then, they explicitly say they sell that information and will send you targeted ads. There was no paid, ad-free private version. So I made my own! Got a self hosted cloud note app. Each note page has a unique URL, so I found a QR code generator, entered the URL of each note page, printed and stuck the QR codes to boxes! You can even attach photos to note pages, search for words in folders of notes, etc. All free, private, and huge cool factor (to myself at least) that I came up with that solution! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- terAREya · 2023-11-28 15:34 let's take the budgeting app as an example. Here is what I want. 1. Free 2. open source 3. Available anywhere on any device 4. All data stored on MY equipment. No cloud provider or 3rd party The only way to achieve this is self hosting in my opinion. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -Alevan- · 2023-11-28 15:46 For me, it started when I first replaced my 500GB HDD with a 128GB SSD in my laptop. As it was much smaller, i had the need for a NAS. I did not have the money for it, but I had an old PC and some used HDDs. Now I run 3 node docker swarm cluster with a dedicated machine for storage, for video sharing, password management, document managemeny, photo management, server mangement, personal accounting, streaming service replacement, device backup, dns server. And these are just the services I use daily. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Reddit_BPT_Is_Racist · 2023-11-28 15:54 Privacy. Those free (or even paid) apps on your phone are selling all of the data you give them to other companies. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- RiffyDivine2 · 2023-11-28 16:11 > sometimes it's about learning or even just because I can This has been my reasoning for awhile now. Hell I sometimes setup goals of how it has to be done in ways that I don't know or are hard to do as a reason to learn it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- shaunjanssens · 2023-11-28 16:13 For me it's mainly the fun. I'm less privacy minded than other people here but I'm sure that I will be happy to own all my data at some point in time. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Vogete · 2023-11-28 16:13 Basically yes, you can install the app. Where is the data for that app stored? If on the phone, then your data is lost when your phone dies (maybe even when you switch phones). If in the cloud, that's great, but then someone else has your data. Selfhosting is to get the convenience of "the cloud" (multi- device/user sync and sharing) without actually relying on the cloud. Take Jellyfin/Plex/Emby for example. Yes, you can just connect a laptop with and HDMI cable and play from VLC. Or you can just use an USB stick in the TV and play from the file system. But you have 2 TVs, a tablet, and a phone that all want to watch something from your movie collection. Of course you can just plug this stick into other devices, and use it that way. Or subscribe to Netflix that may or may not have the movie you want to watch. But what if you had your own Netflix that can be used by multiple phones, tvs and tablets, even at the same time? What if it even synced the progress of a series so your TV no.2 knows where you left off on phone no. 4? This is what self hosting is made for. You HOST "Netflix" yourSELF. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- desnudopenguino · 2023-11-28 16:17 Control ---------------------------------------------------------------------- tamdelay · 2023-11-28 16:20 What’s your hobby? Football? Yeah I don’t get why you watch that when you could spend an afternoon self-hosting instead… ---------------------------------------------------------------------- suhl79 · 2023-11-28 16:22 Freedom? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- JackDostoevsky · 2023-11-28 16:26 > For example I saw a post asking for recommendation for a "self hosted budget management app" that's not something I would host on my home server, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have an audience. not everything might be for you! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Old-Knitterhemd · 2023-11-28 16:33 no. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- oxymo · 2023-11-28 16:35 Firefly is great, and I’m still on an older version that just works. Takes some effort to get imports auto classified, but once you do it’s stupid fast to categorize your spending and see trends. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AlteRedditor · 2023-11-28 16:41 When it comes to budget apps... I haven't found the one that has everything built in. I'd rather build it myself and host it as well. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- StarSyth · 2023-11-28 16:43 Lets say you buy groceries but don't have a fridge, your next door neighbor offers to share their fridge as its massive, makes sense. However if you own a fridge, why would you use your neighbors fridge? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- JimFive · 2023-11-28 16:43 My easy answer to that is because I have a family. An app on the intranet is much easier than trying to get the appropriate software installed for shared use. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- graemep · 2023-11-28 16:44 That is a viable alternative, as long as two people do not need to edit at the same time. Just sync the Gnucash files. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken_Mcnutt · 2023-11-28 16:50 One thing I haven't seen talked about as much is just the *variety* of self-hosted applications that might even have paid/enterprise counterparts because the use-case is so extremely niche. Either that or it's only targeted towards big businesses. Everything from monitoring a [homebrewing operation](http://www.fermentrack.com/) to keeping a full [inventory of my possessions](https://hay-kot.github.io/homebox/) can be accomplished with selfhosted apps that may otherwise be subscription based or nonexistent in the paid market. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- rutrapio · 2023-11-28 16:52 I agree on the work of others, but as I try to delve into it a bit more each time, and not just copy/paste tutorials, I also learn... and hope do one day :) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- smileymattj · 2023-11-28 16:52 Let’s say you’re VM home lab server has reliable backups & snapshots setup. You treat your PC, phone, tablet as expendable devices. Nothing saved locally, nothing backed up. If your one of your client devices does, they are easily replaced. Because all important data is on your server. Single point of capture, so everything is backed up and safe. If you’re in that scenario. You’d want to run everything off your home server. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- fab_space · 2023-11-28 16:52 I ❤️ this answer. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- user01401 · 2023-11-28 16:53 Selfhosting can be a desktop app as well, meaning you don't want to use a SaaS product. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- MoreRopePlease · 2023-11-28 16:57 Have you found a solution? I'm using Money Manager Ex on my laptop, and for the few things I do on my phone, I just write a note and then enter it into MMX when I sit down to review my budget. I imagine that if I really cared, I could have a file server that holds my MMX database and just point the program to that. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- imnotabotareyou · 2023-11-28 16:59 Because the cloud has higher availability and redundancy, as well as more scalable options. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- retsub89 · 2023-11-28 17:03 Guess I hadn't thought of that lol Many aspects of being a career sysadmin & developer I do not miss, but I still like scratching those itches sometimes. I changed careers and now get use my tech skills purely for fun, no pressure ---------------------------------------------------------------------- MoreRopePlease · 2023-11-28 17:04 I settled on Money Manager Ex as a replacement for YNAB. The old YNAB program was the only thing keeping me on windows 7, lol. When I finally found something I liked, I switched to Linux. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Cylian91460 · 2023-11-28 17:07 >senior-level savvy with like a dozen programming languages to be able to maintain any project by yourself No, you don't need to know in detail the language, you need to have knowledge about the language yes but in reality you don't need to be senior, you just need to have knowledge on how to program, how the app will work. All languages are mostly the same with a different syntax, most of them have the same logic behind it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- lestrenched · 2023-11-28 17:08 You can access it from any device (assuming relevant client apps and its over the network) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- highedutechsup · 2023-11-28 17:12 This is like asking why do you cook your own food at home. I self host because I know what I am getting, I can control the price I want to pay, and I don't really need to involve other people in my life. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- kiybungski · 2023-11-28 17:12 because this is the next best thing to Wizardry. I can make something from nothing. Well except for the hardware, thats something, something we all love to tinker with ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Patient-Tech · 2023-11-28 17:19 Also, cost. If I want 18 TB of data accessible from my phone or someone else’s house, how would you do that and not cost a ton of money? I can repurpose old thin clients and I needed the space anyway, so yeah. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- LukasAtLocalhost · 2023-11-28 17:26 I don't have the issue of several people . Dk anyone ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Psychological_Ad9405 · 2023-11-28 17:32 Wait, do you mean the YNAB Classic phone app will stop working? Or YNAB 4 altogether? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- reubenbubu · 2023-11-28 17:35 if someone wrote an open source free solution for you to self-host i think its just rude not to use it. so self-hosting is just being polite ---------------------------------------------------------------------- nibblerrick · 2023-11-28 17:35 Looked for this answer. Many good points in this thread, but the "because we can" shouldn't be underestimated here and there :-) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- itsupport_engineer · 2023-11-28 17:37 So we retain control over our private data. Do not trust corporations to value me or my data. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- gobot · 2023-11-28 18:08 Ok that’s the theory. Good luck in practice diving into somebody’s poorly documented code, setting up a development environment, probably updating libraries, handling obscure errors just getting it to run. Really c is almost the same as python or golang or c++ or javascript? Hmm. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Bagel42 · 2023-11-28 18:18 Self host in the cloud then. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Cylian91460 · 2023-11-28 18:20 >luck in practice diving into somebody’s poorly documented code, setting up a development environment, probably updating libraries, handling obscure errors just getting it to run. I never had an issue with Linux targeted apps for those, only windows one. But it's only my experience. >c is almost the same as python or golang or c++ or javascript? They are similar, ofc each of them have their speciality, c has good memory management, cpp add abstraction layer to c, never tried golang sorry, JavaScript ~~have bad memory management~~ run in browser (so almost everywhere) and is very good at displaying things. But in the end most of the logic is the same, most of the syntax is similar (they all do function, they all do variables, ect) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- psychicsword · 2023-11-28 18:27 Honestly most of what I self host started as "I don't want to pay for a subscription to that". My first self hosted "app" was a file server. I then used XBMC(now called Kodi) to access it kind of like people do with Plex and Jellyfin. I then added a ton of the precursors to the *arr stack of media downloaders. Eventually I got into more apps as I needed them because I had hardware available for them. I have Home Assistant for home automation. I have paperless-ngx as a trial right now for document storage. I use Immich as a Google Photo replacement. I use frigate for my security cameras which replaced my cloud hosted ring cameras. I use Obico for my 3d printer AI camera failure detection rather than a Chinese company's cloud. Eventually the data privacy and ownership became a factor but frankly like most people I didn't care that much about that with companies I generally "trust" to only exploit my data in specific ways(Google/Microsoft/etc). But as those companies began to charge things or remove content from their libraries (looking at you Netflix) I sought out cheaper ways of doing the same thing that also often came with the benefits of more data privacy and less tracking. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- imnotabotareyou · 2023-11-28 18:27 I do for some things! Really depends on the purpose. I think OP is doing good by asking these questions. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Cheap_Specific9878 · 2023-11-28 18:35 I killed more PCs by stupidly placing my screwdriver (2) than by static discharge (0). And I opened, build and handled like 100 PCs in my 5 years of IT ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Significant-Neat7754 · 2023-11-28 18:50 To be fair, selfhosted apps can go away too. You can still run them, but they can be abandoned (and there's no guarantee that they'll continue to work beyond a certain point after that). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- alexsmedile · 2023-11-28 19:07 I mainly host password, private sensible data, and photos on my own home server. That's it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- djbon2112 · 2023-11-28 19:33 And at least with open source/self-hosted, even if all development stops, you can *still use what you have*. Sure, there might end up being security vulnerabilities or other bugs that will then never be fixed. But those can be worked around. But proprietary solutions can have silent killswitches added, and cloud services can just arbitrarily disappear never to work again. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- dontevendrivethatfar · 2023-11-28 19:35 If you want 0-based budgeting, try Actual Budget: https://github.com/actualbudget/actual It's pretty similar to YNAB, and you can even import from YNAB. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Trevski13 · 2023-11-28 19:53 I'm not the person you replied to but I'm using actual budget and love it. It's still in active development so it's missing some features but it getting new ones quickly. It doesn't have a native app, but the webapp is mobile aware, and you can add it to your home screen in chrome so it's like an app. Just make sure you put it behind an auth layer if you're going to publicly expose it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- IsPhil · 2023-11-28 20:05 I think for a lot of people as well, a big factor is when you share that data between multiple devices, if you use your own solution, then you don't have to trust other companies with your data. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- xantheybelmont · 2023-11-28 20:15 I identified the most with this answer. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- djgizmo · 2023-11-28 20:22 Many applications are server based apps. Those server based apps where you want to access the data in no matter where you are ideal for this. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- h310s · 2023-11-28 20:23 >I don't have a home server yet but I'm exploring If this is where you're at and you don't understand why it's done, why in the world would you want to self host in the first place? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- wageof · 2023-11-28 20:35 For me, it is a balance between what I am trying to accomplish and the time/energy/maintenance I am willing to put into accomplishing that thing. I used to self-host a personal website on Wordpress, but now I farm that out to a static site hosting provider because I would rather spend the time building the website instead of spending the same time maintaining the hosting. I self-host a kubernetes homelab environment because that is a personal investment in skill that i don't want to pay exorbitant cloud prices for. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Bruceshadow · 2023-11-28 20:36 > at some point stops working why would it just 'stop working'? Just because there are no updates, doesn't mean it would not work, especially if you don't upgrade whatever it's running on as well. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- HearthCore · 2023-11-28 20:39 Selfhosting is a journey of motivation, frustration and learning. Perks are: Appliable knowledge in the IT space and understanding of virtual concepts be it Software Stacks or Networking interactions, "offline" Data i.E. selfhosted and not under someone elses thumb/control/exposure Since you have access to all data, you can basically do magic behind closed doors and reap the benefits. Setting up a selfhosted Environment means you can pipe in offline ressources just aswell as share access to specific entities without handing the keys over to a 3rd party. In the case of a budget management app - it's finances. Not everybody is cool with having their finances hosted in an app on a device that can crash or get stolen, we'd rather have access to it when we need and want, but still have that data when all my devices used to access it usually are gone. i.e. when the Service Provider decides to shut down - this one aint. (shot at google) \-- I've started with one ThinClient, then bought two more to cluster them up and experiment with HighAvailability and shared CEPH-Storage between the nodes for 10s Migrations of fullblown VMs.. then bought a Dell Workstation with Two Server CPUs and .. basically virtualized that ProxMox cluster within my ProxMox Baremetal Dell host. With the knowledge i managed to gather in the last year alone, I'm able to setup a coherent Work Environment for 50+ People with reliable SSO and 2FA mechanisms, shared FAST storage with dedublication of files and continous nightly backups that get checked for validity and automatic pruning of old unneeded backups on - 1 external NAS + Cold Storage on a buddys Datacenter with 20TB of encrypted storage just for me. \-- I basically have no care in the world for the data in my house at this point, since everything's backed up nightly. I can restore from House fire by setting up a new host with ProxMox, mounting the network storage and restoring the NAS and BackupVM - then just clicking restore on everything.. Since the Services are all on a subnet that's managed virtually by a OPNSense VM and VPN is run on the ProxMox host, everything is drag and drop + Setup your own VPN Solution - if I ever want to gift someone my done work without the data, basically. \-- Why do i NEED this? To break the spiral of neccessairy skills and knowledge for 'entry level' jobs in technical positions and understanding behind security implications, proper troubleshooting, documentation and service culture i.e. there's so many technologies i'm somehwat familiar with now, that I understand what others in the buisness world need of me to properly process errors, requests, whatever. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- dafuccdoyoumean · 2023-11-28 20:53 First of all I never said I want to self host. My question was to understand very specific apps to host. I would host a Plex server, Joplin backups, Pihole etc. but what I did not understand was hosting the app (budget management app) itself. For example I can install Joplin on my phone and setup a backup server but how/why would I host Joplin itself (if that's even a thing). Too many people here thought I asked them "why do you self host at all?", I hope I made myself clear now. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Nix-geek · 2023-11-28 20:54 Adding to this : media servers. Sure, I *CAN* have my mp3, movie, and photo collections on 10 different devices all over my house in unique individual places for different things like my TV, my computer, my phone, my tablet, etc. Sure, I can put that into a cloud solution where it is hosted SOMEHWERE ELSE and I have to spend time uploading it to them, and fear losing ALL OF IT if I stop paying them for whatever reason. Or, I can just self-host it. It's so much easier and cheaper. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- PuckSR · 2023-11-28 20:57 No, but now you have to trust yourself with security. It seems to me to be a bit of the fly vs drive debate. Flying is objectively safer, but lots of people get more freaked out by it because they have zero control over the outcome. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- rgmelkor · 2023-11-28 20:59 For me selfhosting is all about privacy and rights on your data. If you can host it, you are responsible for the data and the only one (theoretically) able to read it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- coredweller1785 · 2023-11-28 21:02 Data is my answer most of the time. Here are some books recommendations. The Age of Surveillance Capitalism The Afterlives of Data Black Box Society Revolutionary Mathematics ---------------------------------------------------------------------- SpongederpSquarefap · 2023-11-28 21:03 This is exactly it - storage is the best example Could I run all of my stuff using a cloud service? Of course, but it would be very expensive and only available if my internet works (and there's a lot of hops between me and my data in the cloud) I can buy a 2TB HDD for £64 - most cloud providers charge that much per year for 1TB ---------------------------------------------------------------------- schol4stiker · 2023-11-28 21:04 In case the system uses external interfaces which are out of your control. These might change and that needs maintenance. This might not be the case for every application but it should definitely be considered. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- BitterSparklingChees · 2023-11-28 21:10 Too bad all the payment processors are already doing this anyways, regardless or not if you are using your own budgeting software. Basically if you've ever used Plaid for anything, the company that you're using Plaid for has all of your accounting history. Not saying you shouldn't use your own budgeting software too (I do) just pointing out how completely helpless the situation is if you are in the US. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AnApexBread · 2023-11-28 21:20 Sure but there are things you have to put up with and things you choose to put up with. Just because I have to give Plaid access to financial information to use it doesn't mean I should just voluntarily give access to everyone who wants it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- katrinatransfem · 2023-11-28 21:36 Being able to access it from anywhere is useful. My budgeting app is a spreadsheet on NextCloud, mainly because I haven’t found an alternative that does things the way I want to do it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- NotAMuritard · 2023-11-28 21:50 top 4 highest rated comments on this post say it all ---------------------------------------------------------------------- therealmrj05hua · 2023-11-28 22:13 Or they can decide you don't have the rights to materials you are rightfully making a legal back up of and decide to remove it from their cloud without notifying you to remove ... Cough drive,one drive,Amazon, etc cough. When you buy digital content like I prefer to for space, and cataloging reasons, you are actually only long term renting access to said items until it changes drm, is questioned on ownership, or they choose to change terms. Hosting it yourself, you keep your data safer, accessible when and how you want. It is more of a hassle for set up so not everything will be worth that attempt. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- SpongederpSquarefap · 2023-11-28 22:16 Self hosted Me on my desktop --> Home server --> My data Cloud Me on my desktop --> ISP --> Hop to next ISP --> Hop to provider --> Hop to another provider --> Account --> My data A lot to go wrong in between that you don't control ---------------------------------------------------------------------- SpongederpSquarefap · 2023-11-28 22:17 I've landed my last 2 jobs because of my homelab ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Cheeze_It · 2023-11-28 22:25 Also, performance. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Edianultra · 2023-11-28 22:29 Privacy ---------------------------------------------------------------------- bflobrad · 2023-11-28 22:32 Open source apps with a significant user base are likely to be forked if they are abandoned. For example, Paperless-ngx was a fork of Paperless after that project stopped receiving updates. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Significant-Neat7754 · 2023-11-28 22:36 True. And that's a good suggestion. Stick to popular services 😊 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- gallifrey_ · 2023-11-28 22:42 ideally youd buy like a 14-20 TB hard drive for less than 200 GBP. economies of scale! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Bruceshadow · 2023-11-28 22:58 For sure should be considered, but how many self-hosted applications have external dependencies like this? Seems like it would be pretty rare and not a great 'seflhosted' design/solution if so. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Rorixrebel · 2023-11-28 23:33 Because the government will use my data to train the AI overlords. Also because i can and enjoy running my own services and infra. Helps me land a better job and expand my skills ---------------------------------------------------------------------- KevinCarbonara · 2023-11-28 23:45 > For example I saw a post asking for recommendation for a "self hosted budget management app". Can't you just install this type of app to your phone or pc? Other people have listed the advantages to this, but they're pretty scant. On the other hand, self-hosting has a lot more applications than just budget apps, and many of those *do* have very good reason for being self-hosted. Personally, I'd love to self-host NextCloud. It lets you take a lot of things you'd otherwise be dependent on Google for and do them yourself. Eliminating that dependency is a great thing, but it also helps improve your privacy, and your ability to operate on your own data. Unfortunately, I do not self-host NextCloud. I ran into too many issues. But that's what this community is for. I just haven't had the time to dedicate to the issue. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DutchOfBurdock · 2023-11-28 23:53 My primary purpose was to host my own music server. Have tonnes od CDs and what not and ripped them all onto a media server. This then evolved to Navidrome, then Airsonic. It's like having your own, private Spotify. More music you add, woot. Then, I wanted my DVD/Blueray collection on a server. A simple HTTP server hosts these, and Kodi both accesses them, and offers them up via uPnP for local hosts. Then there are backups. A small NAS for these. Samba, SFTP, FTPS and even HTTP(s) upload capabilities. Then using the web server to host some HTML generated from say Cron, to show stats of stuff. The a logcat server. So everything can log to a central place. An internal mail server, so local hosts can email their logs to the central logger. Weird some can email, but not syslog. Then some influxdb to offload metrics from routers and hosts. Then a pretty dashboard from Chronograph and what not. Everything else after, is just gravy. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Conscious-Calendar37 · 2023-11-29 00:02 Wait, you mean not every one runs a hypervisor at their house with 15 - 20 guest using more technology than most small businesses? 😂 Short answer, it’s just fun! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- excelite_x · 2023-11-29 00:24 Then you might want to refine your question 😉 As it seems others (and I as well) understood it as a general question instead of specific apps. I don’t use a budgeting app, but in that case I would self host it simply because I think finances are a very personal topic that needs privacy. Privacy you only get when you don’t entrust your data to companies. Businesses have to make money and IT security is one of the areas that a lot of businesses see as cost producing without earning anything from it. From my personal experience this means they don’t go the route best security, instead they go for cheap. This is part of the reason I self host my password manager (same kind of privacy requirement and corp distrust). For plex, I selfhost jellyfin. Basically the same as plex, just in FOSS. For this one, it was the corp distrust again. I started with streaming services, just to find that I wanted to watch something that got removed and put on an other service exclusively. Didn’t want to sign up to every single one, as I can have my homelab running for same cost and use it to tinker and learn🤷‍♂️ For Joplin: by now I have about 11 or 12 selfhosted things running, so why wouldn’t I selfhost that as well by now 😂 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Big-Finding2976 · 2023-11-29 00:31 Flying is only safer than driving until the fuel runs out, then you're much safer in a car 😉 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- maomaocake · 2023-11-29 00:49 actually when a plane runs out of fuel it doesn't drop out of the sky, a trained pilot can glide the plane down (eg Hudson River landing ) mow if u r on a highway and u run out of fuel the car behind u might hit u ---------------------------------------------------------------------- baderk95 · 2023-11-29 00:57 My main thing is I don't want to keep paying for iCloud, netflix, spotify, etc etc. I'm also a photographer on the side and have way too many photos to keep on one cloud, and that will get too expensive. So I looked into data redundancy solutions and also having multiple places to back up my data. So I ended up building a home server and now I host over 10 services. I also really like the tech, I'm a software developer and I keep learning a lot from the selfhosted tasks at home that I have. I love writing scripts and automating things, so now I use my main server to backup my iphone photos so I can have storage on my iphone and then I automate archiving those to an external drive. The main server is also setup in a way to have data redundancy. Why pay for things I can have for free if I know how or can teach myself how? I don't think Google/apple/netflix are not going to be able to feed their kids I don't give them $20 each. But for me it adds up quickly. There is an argument that you'll pay for the hardware etc., which is true, but I think it's relative to what you're trying to get out of it. You can do. A LOT without having high end hardware. For my case though, I was going to post about this actually, I converted my old gaming PC to a server and put in it 24TB HDD (14TB actual usable storage space) to experiment with, and I've used about 35% of it. So my cost was just the drives, but I do want to build another one soon so I can have a backup or make this one my backup and get a more robust one. I've had this for over 2 years as a server and after gaming on it for 5 years as a PC. I do back up most of my important data, but I want a 3rd backup solution for the ease of mind. Anyway, I just finished a very related video on youtube and one of the comments said "If paying isn't owning, then 🏁🚢 isn't stealing" and I love it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- TheQuantumPhysicist · 2023-11-29 01:25 This is the dumbest comment I read in a very long time. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- iduine · 2023-11-29 01:25 This. I feel like the heart of self hosting is not wanting any big corporate to use your data. Being able to host it at home, and share only what you want with who you want. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- neonintubation · 2023-11-29 01:29 I think the threat model is sufficiently different enough for self hosters versus commercial offerings that it *is* possible to maintain a comparable level of security to what you'd enjoy elsewhere with significantly less technical training. E.g., I run a home server using a point-to-point Wireguard configuration such that only devices I've explicitly set up with Wireguard can access any of its services. My ports are very quiet. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- PuckSR · 2023-11-29 01:37 Do you use port knocker? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- XTJ7 · 2023-11-29 01:39 I have zero data to back this up, but I believe statistically a car without fuel is still significantly safer than a plane without fuel. Hudson River landing was a bit of a miracle. Water landings are hard in the best of cases. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- neonintubation · 2023-11-29 01:50 No. If my device is compromised enough that my Wireguard keys have been copied, then Port Knocker won't do much good. Meanwhile, Wireguard is silent until it gets a good signature, so it shouldn't even be apparent that I *am* running anything on any port at all, as far as scanners go. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ayoungblood84 · 2023-11-29 02:02 This is like singing who speaks one language saying, " I don't understand how/why people speak different languages." Tons of reasons, some geographical, some political to some biblical, and other just out of spite. To answer your statement... Tons of reasons to some listed already but too many to state. I suggest you research more and it'll help you understand why. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- EddieKeytonJr · 2023-11-29 02:20 Mainly for control and privacy of our data so it doesn’t get stolen or others don’t bank off of selling our data ---------------------------------------------------------------------- TuhanaPF · 2023-11-29 02:41 You don't sound stupid at all! Before switching to Actual budget, I used YNAB. Just an app to install that works on my phone and on my PC. It's all synced to the cloud so the same data appears on both devices. But, I'm tied to YNAB's choices. They decided to increase prices, so I had to find something else. Instead, Actual is completely controlled by me. None of my data with anyone else, no price, no subscription, no concern that changes will be forced on me that I don't like. It's all in my control. That's why I would rather self-host a budgeting software than just install one. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- RickMuffy · 2023-11-29 03:10 You know what, I back up a lot of music that I bought and use to DJ with to google drive, and that's worrisome. I also follow 3-2-1, so I have backups of backups, but it's interesting to know that my cloud backup is a flaw. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- RickMuffy · 2023-11-29 03:14 Statistics would be hard to come by, because, at least in modern countries, commercial airliners extremely rarely have this issue. Meanwhile, I know a bunch of people who don't go to the gas station unless their fuel light comes on. The fuel light is the warning, not the friendly reminder lol ---------------------------------------------------------------------- theBloodShed · 2023-11-29 03:42 Short answer: accessibility, security, and privacy. Long answer: Hosted services allow accessibility for more devices and users. If your network is properly secured and maintained, your personal network will be more secure than huge services that are well known targets with thousands of employees as potential victims of social engineering. Privacy because I don’t trust my data with third parties and cloud based services. Some added detail on that last topic, it’s not just trust to secure my data; it’s trust to respect my data. I’ve worked as a software engineer building systems for marketing teams. I’ve worked projects to integrate with data warehousing services and social media platforms. Most people would be shocked by how much data companies have collected and correlated with you. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- _mynd · 2023-11-29 04:25 I’m extremely interested in this! I’ve often thought about self hosting an image repository. And having a login in front is definitely icing on the cake. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- SystemErrorMessage · 2023-11-29 06:14 I have hardware laying around i decide to put to use. In the 3rd world a chatgpt subscription is the equivalent of $100 a month for very little benefit. Instead of queueing and using other people's free resources better to use my own. There are also other reasons like backup strategy using cloud, NAS and archives which require your own hardware. A 1U chassis can fit a chinese recycled board with decent specs, a gpu and 4 hot swap drives cheap. Does decently if you pair with good network hardware so you only wake it up when needed. I use mikrotik for networking. Ive come to a point where my skills are good and paying for the cloud is a big waste. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Cybasura · 2023-11-29 07:29 Google recently had several cases of - which looks to be a developing situation - user personal data losses in the google drive side of operations Thats right, the SaaS infrastructure that is based on storing user data on a cloud system lost about months of user data ---------------------------------------------------------------------- reneald · 2023-11-29 07:41 Just like Trevski13 I'm self hosting Actual Budget. No native Android app, but the web app is mobile first. It works almost exactly like YNAB does and can import your YNAB budget, which for me is a huge advantage over Firefly III. I've tried to use Firefly III a few times but could never adjust to the different budgeting philosophy. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- reneald · 2023-11-29 07:50 1. I'm already relying on a 'bootleg' version of the YNAB Classic android app because the official one doesn't work with dropbox any more. 2. As of Android 14, you can't install apps that were built for Android 5.1 or earlier. They're going to raise that number in later versions. I don't know what version YNAB Classic was built for, but some day it will stop working. 'Soon' might have been an overstatement on my part. I could use ADB to install the apk from my computer but at that point I'd rather fire up a container with Actual Budget, import my YNAB budget and be done with it :-) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- cyrus2kg · 2023-11-29 08:43 Cool. !remindme in 10 years ---------------------------------------------------------------------- RemindMeBot · 2023-11-29 08:44 I will be messaging you in 10 years on [**2033-11-29 08:43:53 UTC**](h ttp://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2033-11- 29%2008:43:53%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link **](https://www.reddit.com/r/selfhosted/comments/185tb9d/i_dont_fully_ understand_howwhy_you_guys_selfhost/kb8ly84/?context=3) [**CLICK THIS LINK**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Remin dMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5Bhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2F selfhosted%2Fcomments%2F185tb9d%2Fi_dont_fully_understand_howwhy_you_g uys_selfhost%2Fkb8ly84%2F%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%202033-11- 29%2008%3A43%3A53%20UTC) to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam. ^(Parent commenter can ) [^(delete this message to hide from others.)] (https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Delete %20Comment&message=Delete%21%20185tb9d) ***** |[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/RemindMeBot/comments/e1bko7/remind mebot_info_v21/)|[^(Custom)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?t o=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5BLink%20or%20message%20inside %20square%20brackets%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%20Time%20period%20here)|[^(Yo ur Reminders)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot& subject=List%20Of%20Reminders&message=MyReminders%21)|[^(Feedback)](ht tps://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=RemindMeBot %20Feedback)| |-|-|-|-| ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Garrapalw · 2023-11-29 09:23 Thanks! This answer is really helpful for someone new to this! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AndusDEV · 2023-11-29 10:55 Look at Nextcloud for example. You can have a Google Drive alternative without google having any of your files. For some people it's more important for others less. You also get more control of what you can do with it (for example add plugins etc.). It just depends on how you want to live your life. For example you can just create a Google account and have everything setup for you, or you can selfhost something like NC and setup everything your way. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- hyperactive2 · 2023-11-29 11:25 Search /r/selfhosted for immich and head on over to https://immich.app for more info. I dont use mobile uploads because I prefer my own filing system, but immich has been great! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- therealSoasa · 2023-11-29 11:56 It's an evolution of services and data , those who can, self host. Those who don't self host, can - we don't discriminate here 😉 _All views in this post are of my own even though they are hosted on Reddit servers subscriptions sold separately & Batteries not included._ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- _mynd · 2023-11-29 12:36 Awesome! Thanks man ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deses · 2023-11-29 15:28 I like this logic. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- icheerforvillains · 2023-11-29 16:06 My wife loooooves when I spend my evening going through my latest batch of unclassified firefly transactions. But the perfect pie chart is worth it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- icheerforvillains · 2023-11-29 16:15 I use firefly for spending categorization. I haven't gotten into any of the budgeting stuff. IMO the biggest drop off from mint is the lack of automated synchronizing of account transactions. I'm currently just dumping transaction csv's monthly and importing then, which is easy enough. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Sabinno · 2023-11-29 16:59 Most people want services to be synced across devices. Using the budget app example, I just couldn't possibly do all of my budget tasks from my phone alone. It's too limited of a screen size and not all features are available within the app. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- therealmrj05hua · 2023-11-29 18:53 What service do you use for off-site backups? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Psychological_Ad9405 · 2023-11-29 19:03 Very helpful. I had no idea, thank you. I never bother to install the Android app after I moved to a new phone a while ago, and frankly don't feel I miss the app. Still, would make it less attractive. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- PuckSR · 2023-11-30 00:38 And what if there is an error in the SSH or wire guard protocol? Something like this perhaps? https://youtu.be/0PxTAn4g20U?si=Y_5lhppDEWyVKF01 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- RickMuffy · 2023-11-30 01:32 Have a laptop in storage that is connected to Google drive. Process is, new files added on main PC. folder syncs with drive. Every week or so I hit my storage unit, turn on laptop with external media connected, it syncs down from Google drive. If Google breaks, I should have all my stuff still on the PC, and at most a week or two old backup off site in storage. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- therealmrj05hua · 2023-11-30 01:55 So Google is your off site backup in the 3-2-1 scenario ---------------------------------------------------------------------- RickMuffy · 2023-11-30 02:01 Technically have two off site, if my house burned down tomorrow I'd have Google as the main, and the secondary is only a week or two lag, and my files traditionally aren't that new to need to be backed up. I'd lose maybe 10 bucks worth of music maybe. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- areanod · 2023-11-30 08:00 Microsoft even has a clause somewhere in their contract regardingn OneDrive/Sharepoint that they cannot or will not guarantee the safety against loss for your data... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- neonintubation · 2023-11-30 19:16 Such an exploit would affect my setup wherever it is running. Being in a residential IP address block at least makes my machine less interesting. Takes time to scan for exploitable boxen.