Tailscale vs Twingate: Which is the better solution? reddit / selfhosted ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Muizaz88 · 2023-11-26 07:43 I have tried both out and essentially, they both work exceptionally well for allowing me to access my home network from an outside network. I guess my question really is this: Is there a benefit to using one solution over the other? Thank you in advance for you advice! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ArgoPanoptes · 2023-11-26 07:55 If you are using the free version, you can set up both to have redundancy in case the two don't work. I like more Twingate because if my server has no Internet connection for whatever reason, it sends me an email about it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Muizaz88 · 2023-11-26 08:02 I do have both currently set up actually. Yeah, that is true about the notification bit. One point for Twingate! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ElevenNotes · 2023-11-26 10:33 Do you have CGNAT? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Muizaz88 · 2023-11-26 10:59 No. I have a assigned static IP. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- NikStalwart · 2023-11-26 11:11 Then you can just use normal wireguard and skip the overhead of tailscale and similar products. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ElevenNotes · 2023-11-26 11:22 So why do you need either when you can have a faster and more secure system by simply running your own Wireguard server and clients? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ElevenNotes · 2023-11-26 11:23 I can imagine what OP's answer will be: "I tried but couldn't make Wireguard work. Tailscale is so much easier to use". ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Muizaz88 · 2023-11-26 11:29 I guess it was simply something I didn't know about. I'll have a look into it. Thank you. 😊 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ElevenNotes · 2023-11-26 11:44 This is everything that's wrong with Reddit and the internet as a whole. You have heard of Tailscale but never of Wireguard. Because all the others are pushed down anyone’s throat by VC backed firms, while Wireguard is free and open source. Edit: No surprises on the downvotes from all the Tailscale users, it’s like this on **every**, **single**, **post**. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Muizaz88 · 2023-11-26 11:52 Yeah I know that Wireguard is the backbone of Tailscale, but I didn't know that Tailscale used any more resources than Wireguard itself. Furthermore, Tailscale was easy to set up, but when I tried Wireguard once previously, it wasnt exactly quite as easy. Don't exactly think it's indicative of anything wrong per se. Just using what I know how to. 😅 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Muizaz88 · 2023-11-26 11:53 Exactly. You're right. Congratulations! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ElevenNotes · 2023-11-26 11:59 As I mentioned in another comment, you simply couldn't make it work .... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- PhilipLGriffiths88 · 2023-11-26 12:30 Twingate does a better implementation of zero trust principles incl. least-privilege, microsegmentation, etc. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Muizaz88 · 2023-11-26 12:54 Okay, managed to set up Wireguard as well. Is Wireguard the best solution? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- PersonalProse · 2023-11-26 13:59 Why not offer him some guidance rather than patronising him? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- z-lf · 2023-11-26 17:35 That's not exactly true. You forget the zero trust element. With tailscale and twingate Each device is identified. It's not part of wireguard. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- dargx001 · 2023-11-26 17:44 Because patronizing is what they do. In almost all their comments, especially to people who they deem to “not know as much” as they do. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- PersonalProse · 2023-11-26 19:31 I think it's because he has contempt for his own lack of knowledge. And he sees himself as having passed the first hurdle so that contempt has been passed on to those behind him as a sort of confidence boost. If only they realized that they still have many more hurdles to go, and that the only reason they passed the first one was from other people helping them, directly or indirectly. He is the problem with the internet. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- thundranos · 2023-11-26 22:33 Why is vanilla wireguard faster and more secure than Tailscale? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ElevenNotes · 2023-11-26 23:10 Yes ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ElevenNotes · 2023-11-26 23:15 It is faster because there is no additional overhead, even Tailscale openly admits this. It is more secure because you do not rely on a 3rd party for it to work. OP has a static IP, most here can only dream of that, but OP still choses to choose an option that was invented for people behind very restrictive firewalls or CGNAT, because it’s quote “esier to use”. I think you and I both can agree that using Netflix is easier than setting up an entire *arr suite, but yet people do it all the time for the exact same reason one should pick Wireguard over any *scale if they can: **freedom** and **privacy*. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ElevenNotes · 2023-11-26 23:19 Because if you type in “How to setup Wireguard” in your favourite search engine, you get 10’000 guides, in writing or as videos or heck even as podcasts, that tell you step-by-step everything you need to know. By people who like to do this absolutely for free and should be loved for it. So it would be nice if OP would at least read some of them, don't you think? Before OP uses Reddit as his personal search engine. As far as I can see, neither have you offered to write for OP a step- by-step guide? So, what’s going on, on your side of being condescending? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ElevenNotes · 2023-11-26 23:22 No, it’s more pointing out the laziness in people to search for information themselves. They rather ask Reddit for their perfect answer, than to spend 10’ reading a document that explains everything to them. These questions, or ideas, or whatever you want to call them, pop up on this sub every single day since weeks, and they are always the same questions, the same laziness, people really are just that lazy it seems or can’t be bothered to properly read and follow instructions. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ElevenNotes · 2023-11-26 23:29 I would say my track record of “thanks you’s” and my give away of free tech and money would tell otherwise. I do this to help and educate, some people like it, some disagree, and that’s okay, the difference between you and me is, that I do make the world a better place for at least one or two people a week here on Reddit, and no words you use, or what you say, can ever take that away from me. Oh, and if you ask why the hell I would care about that? Because I have achieved everything I want in life, have reached every goal, all that’s left, is to lift people up. To challenge them, but in my world view that does not mean being cute and cuddly and nice. But to be honest, direct and to actually challenge people in their beliefs, because most often than not, their beliefs are not theirs. Just the status quo, like Tailscale, which IMHO is great for people who are behind CGNAT or want to get fired from their jobs by circumventing the company firewall, but not for people who have all the means to not need Tailscale (aka static IP, port forwarding, and so on). So, ask yourself, when did you make the world a better place for someone else for nothing in return? If your answer is never, I feel sad for you and hope you find the courage and spirit to not only think about yourself. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ElevenNotes · 2023-11-26 23:40 I’m fully aware what these products offer, thanks for the update. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- NikStalwart · 2023-11-27 00:05 > That's not exactly true. You forget the zero trust element. With tailscale and twingate Each device is identified. It's not part of wireguard. I am sorry, what now? Wireguard has peers. Each peer is an (identified) device. There are other issues with wireguard, for instance, key management when your network grows and you keep adding devices, but, if your only goal is to securely access your home server (which you then use as a gateway to your LAN) you only need 2-3 peers, which are easy enough to manage on your own. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- NikStalwart · 2023-11-27 00:05 You can also imagine what my response would be to that ☺ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Muizaz88 · 2023-11-27 00:25 Thank you. I've managed to figure out how to install and configure Wireguard. Working well. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- z-lf · 2023-11-27 00:46 What you're saying is correct but in not talking about the same thing. I might be naming it wrong. WhenI say: There's no device identification in the wireguard protocol, I mean: On a network, I want to see a device *known to belong to that specific user* . What wireguard does is only add devices to a network. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- NikStalwart · 2023-11-27 01:34 I don't think I understand your use case here, but maybe that's because I am doing things differently. I am the *only* person on my wireguard network. Keys do not magically get added to my tunnel configuration files: if anybody adds them, it's me, or one of my servers got compromised. If one of my servers got compromised, I have bigger, much bigger, issues. Similarly, when I am the single tenant in my tailscale / headscale network, I *know* all devices belong to me. If a new device is added and I didn't add it, then it doesn't mnatter to me who it theoretically belongs to: my infra's been comped. And I don't understand what "known to belong to a particular user" even means. I don't see how tailscale solves this issue: someone's tailscale account could get comped just as easily (or difficultly) as normal configs. How many users do you have on your tailnet? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- zfa · 2023-11-27 03:50 I think TS's wireguard go implementation may already have the QUIC/UDP improvements yet upstreamed so in some cases it may be quicker at the moment. https://github.com/WireGuard/wireguard-go/pull/97/commits ---------------------------------------------------------------------- whizbangbang · 2023-12-05 13:50 Personally like Twingate as its more mature and polished IMO