Lowest TDP "consumer grade" (off the shelf) CPU? reddit / selfhosted ---------------------------------------------------------------------- RazvanRosca · 2023-11-19 05:11 Hello, What would be the lowest TDP consumer grade CPU that I could get off the shelf? I've read that recent Intel "i" series are quite efficient, but I'm wondering which3/5/7/9 series (and maybe a model?) is "the best". I'm looking to self-host only a small amount of containers. 4k video output (or transcoding) would also be a great feat, even if nowadays I'm not using Plex that much. Thank you ---------------------------------------------------------------------- sinofool · 2023-11-19 05:23 Intel N100/200/300 series? All efficient cores. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- RazvanRosca · 2023-11-19 05:33 Can you buy just the CPU? Because I can only find pre-made systems with N series, but not CPUs separately. Thank you ---------------------------------------------------------------------- itzeric02 · 2023-11-19 05:33 In general efficiency is a difficult metric for CPUs because there are many different definitions and factors that are involved. If you want a low electricity bill: There are boards with an intel N100 (TDP 6W). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- RazvanRosca · 2023-11-19 05:37 I currently have a ZimaBoard. While I enjoy the TDP, it's too limiting. I need a "real" motherboard where I can add multiple HDDs, NVMEs, 2.5 Gb NICs etc. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Jayes1204 · 2023-11-19 05:41 Maybe Erying Motherboards could fit your use case. These are basically mobile processors put on a full size Motherboard ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Darkextratoasty · 2023-11-19 05:49 If you're not doing much computing, then the idle power consumption is much more important than the tdp, in which case the motherboard and other hardware are more important than the CPU. For your use case, something like a tinyminimicro 1L PC or a Celeron mini PC would be good. I've personally played around with - a dell optiples 3050 micro with an i5-7500t that idles about 6 watts - an AliExpress n5105 mini PC that idles about 8 watts - an AliExpress n100 3inch mini PC that idles about 5 watts - an Asus Chromebox 3 with an i7-8550u that idles about 4 watts Any of these have plenty of juice to run some docker containers and a media server assuming you don't need to transcode multiple 4k streams simultaneously. I'm currently using the Chromebox as my proxmox server with 3-4 vms and maybe 20 docker containers/lxcs and it uses about 8-9 watts on average. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- sinofool · 2023-11-19 05:49 No, I feel it is impossible to build a PC from parts idle at 10w. Those standby ports consumes power for nothing. My single board arm setup sometimes use close to 20w. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- RazvanRosca · 2023-11-19 05:50 Looks interesting! Do you know any shop in the EU that sells them? Upon a fast search I can only find them in China (AliX etc). Thank you ---------------------------------------------------------------------- RazvanRosca · 2023-11-19 05:58 Thank you for your in-depth reply. As mentioned in the OP, I am not looking for mini PCs. I want the flexibility of adding more drives, NVMEs, other components. So I need a motherboard that allows me to expand. I want to stop using two devices (compute + storage) and use only one, properly. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- RazvanRosca · 2023-11-19 06:00 20w is OK. Currently I spend that for keeping a NAS+ZimaBoard running. My target is to stop fiddling, have a single device and call it a day. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Jayes1204 · 2023-11-19 06:02 No, unfortunately not. One little site note: if you planing to do virtualization I would recommend to stay away from the ES versions (Engineering Sample). I heard some people in some forums having trouble with it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- sinofool · 2023-11-19 06:03 >4 SATA + 2 NVMe + 2.5 Gb NIC I choose [ASRock X570D4U- 2L2T](https://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=X570D 4U-2L2T#Specifications) for the updated requirements. I have an 1GbE variant + AMD 5950x (105W TDP) in use and happy with it's performance. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- RazvanRosca · 2023-11-19 06:08 Thank you for the recommendation. What is the idle TDP? Thank you ---------------------------------------------------------------------- sinofool · 2023-11-19 06:16 I have avg 250w idle measured from power plug, but with a lot other hardware/software: * 7x 3.5 inch drive * 2x gen4 nvme * Nvidia 2070 Super GPU * proxmox 12 Linux VM, 1 Windows VM ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Darkextratoasty · 2023-11-19 06:20 Either I'm blind or you forgot to add that part to the original post, I'm not seeing anything about mini PCs or wanting expansion. Either way, check out Wolfgang's channel on YouTube, he's got some very low power but expandable home server builds on there. Somewhere in the description of one of his videos is a link to a spreadsheet comparing the power consumption of dozens of motherboard and CPU configurations. But my point about the CPU vs motherboard/other hardware still stands. If a full mini PC with an i7-8550u, motherboard, SSD, etc only uses 4w, the CPU is maybe using 2w, so the CPU is really not the part to be worried about in terms of idle power consumption. Just get something Intel 6th Gen and up, I've seen a mini itx build with an i5-6500t idle at just over 10 watts, and that's a pretty old CPU at this point. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- sinofool · 2023-11-19 06:27 Happy homelab and selfhosted. It start with single device, but never will be only one. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- mrpeenut24 · 2023-11-19 06:34 I'm a big fan of SuperMicro's Xeon D- series 1U short servers. Not really consumer grade, but not overly expensive either (about $1k on ebay for everything but the disk), and power consumption was not much higher than Atoms at the time I bought them. https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/series/87041/inte l-xeon-d-processor.html I have a D-1541, 8 core (16 thread), 2100MHz @ 45W TDP, and two D-1518s, 4 core (8 thread), 2200MHz @ 35W TDP. They'll both run proxmox with a handful of containers, and another selling point was 10GbE, which is great if you're looking to upgrade your LAN. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- RazvanRosca · 2023-11-19 07:45 Great, thank you so much! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- RazvanRosca · 2023-11-19 07:48 Sounds interesting, thank you. What about noise? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- lilolalu · 2023-11-19 08:37 The Intel NUC's with 13th gen CPU idle at less than 10w. They have a i5-1340p CPU. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- RazvanRosca · 2023-11-19 08:38 Just to clarify this further, I'm either looking only for a CPU (preferably), or a CPU + motherboard that have at least 4 SATA + 2 NVMe + 2.5 Gb NIC. I'm not looking for NUC-sized PCs or small AIO boards. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- lilolalu · 2023-11-19 08:41 Sure, but I guess it's a good starting point to look for systems with the i5-1340p since with those they manage to run the entire system under 10w... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- mrpeenut24 · 2023-11-19 08:43 3x 40mm fans in the 1518. It's a bit noisy, but not so loud if left in a room you're not occupying. Not sure about the 1541, but probably about the same noise level. They don't run 100% all the time, though. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- RazvanRosca · 2023-11-19 08:44 The biggest problem is that I cannot really find any "proper"motherboard with N or "mobile" CPUs. I found a ton of small sized PCs and laptops, but nothing else. Hence my current search for a "desktop CPU" that idles at a decent TDP. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- lilolalu · 2023-11-19 08:59 I am not sure that TDP is the only factor you should be looking for, since the overall efficiency can not really be measured in TDP. The questions is rather how well the CPU scales with load. You can buy the i5-7300u with 15w TDP socketed but I am pretty sure that a a 7th gen Intel even with 15w tdp would not be a good choice over a 13th gen i5 with 45w tdp. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- lilolalu · 2023-11-19 09:29 https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/s/ZcavDxMo2k ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ProKn1fe · 2023-11-19 10:02 And how do you want to use cpu without other components?) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- RazvanRosca · 2023-11-19 10:04 The CPU seems to be the hardest to find/get component. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- EquivalentPast5947 · 2023-11-19 10:14 is 35W to much ? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- whohaseyestosee · 2023-11-19 10:27 It's worth mentioning Zen2/Zen3 AMD CPUs can be run in Linux* with kernel parameter: amd_pstate=active This allows for the CPU to run in an extreme low-power state and scale up if needed. * Kernel 6.5+ required. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Lamber414 · 2023-11-19 10:42 ASRock n100dc or ASRock n100m, it's the motherboard plus an n100 CPU, the first one needs a laptop 19v power adapter while the second one uses a standard ATX 24 pin connection. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ben4425 · 2023-11-19 11:03 N100 is a good low power CPU (I own one) but beware that they only have 9 PCIe lanes. Every peripheral and motherboard slot needs at least one lane and many (like NVME slots) often have more. For example, NVME normally uses **4** lanes and each NIC needs one. So, do the math, 2 standard NVME slots and a NIC use all your lanes so there would be none for the PCIe slots. The Asrock N100m tries to deal with this but limiting the number of lanes per device but it does so, potentially, at the expense of performance. It assigns 2 lanes to the NVME slot and it's 16 lane PCIe slot only wires **2** of those lanes. Shit should still work, but it may not be at its fullest performance. Anyhow, beware that striving for lowest idle power may have other hidden costs if you also want flexible and high speed I/O. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- RazvanRosca · 2023-11-19 11:04 Thank you for the în depth reply. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- RazvanRosca · 2023-11-19 11:04 Thank you ---------------------------------------------------------------------- RazvanRosca · 2023-11-19 11:05 On idle? Yes. Usage, no. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- RazvanRosca · 2023-11-19 11:36 This looks perfect, only if it would have 4xSATA. 😐 Any idea about something that has that as well? Thank you so much! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Lamber414 · 2023-11-19 11:37 Buy an i3 12100 or 13100 and a motherboard with all the stuff you need ---------------------------------------------------------------------- RazvanRosca · 2023-11-19 11:40 That's exactly what I'm currently researching. Any idea if i3 13x is more power afficient compared with i5 13x? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- sarkyscouser · 2023-11-19 13:04 There are MBs put there with integrated N100 - N305 CPUs, an i226 2.5Gbe nic and a 4xpcie slot that are your best bet. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- RazvanRosca · 2023-11-19 13:05 Could you please give me an example? Appreciate ---------------------------------------------------------------------- PaulEngineer-89 · 2023-11-19 14:41 There are some ARM chips that go down to microamps in low power mode and draw only 1 Watt at full power but might drive you nuts trying to run Linux on them. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- RazvanRosca · 2023-11-19 14:44 Just to clarify this further, I'm either looking only for a CPU (preferably), or a CPU + motherboard that have at least 4 SATA + 2 NVMe + 2.5 Gb NIC. I'm not looking for NUC-sized PCs or small AIO boards. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 100GHz · 2023-11-19 14:57 >I want the flexibility of adding more drives, NVMEs, other components Keep in mind that low tdp PCs will be *slow*. I was experimenting with a 3050 with a T cpu last week and updating windows 11 took the entire night and a chunk of the next day. This is with a NVME drive. I decided against moving my database to it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- laxweasel · 2023-11-19 14:57 As others have mentioned, TDP is a poor indicator of idle wattage. In general, two things that are better predictors of idle wattage: newer chips and core count. Makes sense, right? Newer stuff is more efficient which is how they either cut power or jam more cores into a chip. As many have mentioned the N100, N200, N305 have been popular, and ASRock has some mobos with that combo, but they will be lacking the connectivity you're looking for. In terms of a CPU I would look at either newer Celeron or i3 variants (there is a reason the lower end enterprise grade servers run off them). Combine this with "industrial" motherboards ("IMB" from ASRock and Gigabyte, also "Jetway" products, etc.) which have plenty of I/O, compact form factor, and very little "wasted" on performance gaming stuff and RGB fluff. Some of those industrial motherboards also have embedded CPU options from either laptop or embedded series which would also idle super low but still be plenty for your needs while retaining Intel Quicksync for transcoding. i5, i7 and i9 are probably too much for your workload and those extra cores will sit and eat power and do nothing for you. Same with most of the Xeons plus you probably lose QuickSync outside of a select few variants. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- RazvanRosca · 2023-11-19 15:04 One of the best replies on this thread, thank you! Could you recommend me a MOBO for i3? I am thinking at i3-13100T. What do you think? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- RazvanRosca · 2023-11-19 15:09 Currently I run everything from a ZimaBoard, but it doesn't allow me to add more than two drives, nor upgrade the NIC. So I'm not worried about the CPU usage, it'll be minimal. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 100GHz · 2023-11-19 15:18 It seems you'll be fine based on what I could find about the board. Also, it is surprising ZimaBoard can sell at all with a website as such :P it's like all spam no info there ---------------------------------------------------------------------- sarkyscouser · 2023-11-19 15:41 https://store.maxtangpc.com/product/embedded-motherboard/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- RazvanRosca · 2023-11-19 15:43 Amazing, thank you! If you have other recommendations please let me know. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- RazvanRosca · 2023-11-19 15:46 This is perfect, except 1xSATA. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- sarkyscouser · 2023-11-19 16:01 Get a PCIE HBA card in IT mode if you need more data ports ---------------------------------------------------------------------- laxweasel · 2023-11-19 16:15 I'll be honest I don't have a ton of hands on enough to recommend a brand or anything. It depends on form factor and availability - the industrial MBs are hard to find for individual purchase. Here's a starting point: https://mitxpc.com/collections/motherboards/LGA-1700 Although if you're cost conscious some of these industrial boards come with their own premium (usually due to an extremely compact form factor). So true "off the shelf" would be something like an ASRock B760M-HDV that has a very basic feature set (added future proofing here considering it's DDR5). A 13100 (or 12100, doubt you'll notice a huge difference) is fine. The -T Intel series are simply the normal variant hard locked to a lower turbo clock to prevent them from overheating in limited cooling environments. No benefit to idle wattage consumption and you can achieve the same if you wanted to via BIOS. With the regular variant you'll retain the ability to turbo under workload. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- RoundTableMaker · 2023-11-19 17:37 https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804693986734.html?spm=a2g0n.store_m _home.hotSpots_2004057388065.1&gatewayAdapt=4itemAdapt I think this what you're looking for. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- kmisterk · 2023-11-19 19:04 ## Post Removed Hey, RazvanRosca! Thanks for your submission on selfhosted. Your post has been removed due to a violation of the purpose of the subreddit: **Self Hosting** ## Not Self-Hosted When it comes to posts regarding applications in this subreddit, they must feature a self-hosted tool, or a tool that *can be* self-hosted, or some kind of related information, help request, or otherwise related to a tool that is something that one can self-host. If you believe this post *is in fact* relevant to /r/selfhosted, feel free to [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to= /r/selfhosted&subject=Removed For Not Being Self- Hosted&message=[Removed Post](https://www.reddit.com/r/selfhosted/comments/17ypnnk/-/\)) with your concerns.