Is using Tailscale to bypass Geo-restrictions against their TOS? reddit / selfhosted ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Dr-COCO · 2023-11-17 08:55 Hello everyone, I have been spending some time trying to understand the Terms of Service, and I need legal advice. I did not understand if using another computer as an endpoint to bypass georestrictions would violate the agreement. It should be encrypted due to WireGuard, but I also want to know if this is metadata that can be collected by them. Thanks ---------------------------------------------------------------------- lilolalu · 2023-11-17 09:16 Strange question: Does it matter if it's against Tailscales TOS, because it certainly is against the Geo-Blocking imposed by a company, a government or a copyright holder... So, you do care about THEIR rules but not the others? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- kataflokc · 2023-11-17 09:30 Seriously? Yes, because Tailscale is not a bunch of evil bastards ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Dr-COCO · 2023-11-17 09:31 Thats what I am trying to find out. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- lilolalu · 2023-11-17 09:31 you mean unlike netflix, formula 1 or premier league soccer? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Dr-COCO · 2023-11-17 09:34 I dont want to comply to Geo-Blocking imposed by anyone. Thats why I am looking for a bridge/partner-in-crime which will cover me? If I will be breaking any rules then I need to self-host this.. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- lilolalu · 2023-11-17 09:35 Thats what i was referring to: you are already breaking the rule imposed by the entity that imposed the geo-blocking, so just go all the way. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Dr-COCO · 2023-11-17 09:38 I am not breaking any. But I definetly don’t want Tailscale to rat me out if i do one day, with or without purpose. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- lilolalu · 2023-11-17 09:44 Look, normally Geo-Blocking isnt established as a fun activity. Its a lot of work for the entitiy that establishes it and usually they can impose it only if they have a legal base for it. i.E. they only have the rights to distribute a certain content in a certain part of the world. (netflix, sports,hulu etc or like /r/therewasanattempt is geoblocked in germany right now, because the admins there allow hamas propaganda which is illegal in germany but not other parts of the world. in any case: circumventing the geoblocking is already breaking a law. so why does it matter to you if you are additionally breaking tailscales TOS? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- WiseCookie69 · 2023-11-17 09:48 Of course they will rat you out, if you do something that's against a country's laws and they get served a warrant. What else do you expect? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- lilolalu · 2023-11-17 09:53 Well, you could expect them to handle this like VPN providers do, who will shrug there shoulders and say "sorry but we are not writing any logs". But even IF they guerantee your anonymity, they will state in their TOS that you are not allowed to use their service for that purpose, because they have to. So i dont understand OP's question, because circumventing geoblocking is breaking laws. So the more interesting question would be: does Tailscale guarantee anonymity for their users than if their TOS allows you to break the law. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Dr-COCO · 2023-11-17 09:54 Okay, that’s a great example: Let’s say I am in Germany and I have no idea about that subreddit is blocked by the government. I was visiting it from my Tailscale endpoint. The question is in such case; will Tailscale rat me to the government? Can they see which websites do I visit? Do they keep records? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- lilolalu · 2023-11-17 09:56 I think the question if Tailscale will guarantee your anonymity is valid and understandable. To ask if its against their TOS not so much, of course they will not write in their terms of service that you are allowed to break laws using their services. BTW. not knowing that something is illegal does not protect you from doing something illegal. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Dr-COCO · 2023-11-17 09:58 Exactly, I will edit the question ---------------------------------------------------------------------- lilolalu · 2023-11-17 10:06 btw maybe look for a trustable VPN provider instead, because handling the "legality" and anonymity for their users is their core business. A good vpn provider needs to have the technical expertise to disable logging etc, often they have patch software to actually NOT do logging, But they also need to comply to the data retention policies in the countries where they have their exit nodes. So its a rather complex thing, i dont think that tailscale has this as their top priority, but maybe i am wrong. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- InfamousAgency6784 · 2023-11-17 11:35 There is a couple things you seem to have misunderstood: 1. Tailscale's purpose is to make 2+ machines communicate in a secure way. That's the start and the end of it. If your plumber says it's against their ToS to use the pipe-**holders** they provide with pipes used to ultimately drink water, do you think it's enforceable? Does it even make sense? No and No. 2. I had a look at their [ToS](https://tailscale.com/terms/). A quick search for `"geo"` returned nothing and so did a cursory look at the relevant sections. So it looks like you have imagined things or misconstrued something very badly. If you talk about Mullvad integration, yes, they don't want their IPs to be banned everywhere for everyone so they set restrictions so that they can interrupt service as they see fit to protect their IP reputation. But that's a Mullvad thing. Alternatively, get a VPN provider that doesn't care. There won't be native Tailscale integration but that should cover what you want. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- dontquestionmyaction · 2023-11-17 12:49 Tailscale doesn't even hold the encryption keys. They literally cannot rat you out. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Dr-COCO · 2023-11-17 13:11 Is it possible for them to collect the websites which I visit? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- dontquestionmyaction · 2023-11-17 13:12 No. Most they can see is traffic volume between your nodes, none of the content. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- adamshand · 2023-11-17 22:15 In *most* cases I don't believe (?) that subverting geoblocking is committing a crime. No government official is going to come after you. It is a breach of your contract with the supplier. This could get your account terminated and conceivably sued (but that's civil, not criminal). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- WiseCookie69 · 2023-11-18 06:06 I'd argue it depends on the countries and content involved. If it's just to consume some harmless media, and there's no anti-VPN country involved, nobody is gonna bat an eye. But that might change, when it comes to banned content. Even more though, if it were actively published. Either way, I'd never trust a VPN provider.